Blood angels probably: Horuuussss!!!!!! You cannot escape from me Horuussss !!!! I will chase you to the end of The earth And the end of the stars!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't ever want Horus to come back, but if GW wants to give Big E a spectral wolf at his right hand during warp shenanigans where he shows up I would dig it.
Interesting that you say that. I’ve always believed in headcanon that Big E is fighting the chaos gods in the warp alongside the psychic essences of Malcador and Sanguinius.
The only way I want horus back is as a powerless shade that sits at the steps of the golden throne. When abbadon does breach the eternity gate Horus will beg his son to realize what he didn't: that the dark gods are indeed using him, only to be mocked and laughed off by the Despoiler as a failure.
It wouldn't shake up the setting...it would show that nothing ever happens...you would have all the primarchs back and you would know going forward nothing will ever happen they will all be unkillable I know that's close minded but they will be perpetually un altered and only defeat outside threats.
A far better scenario would be that of the prodigal son who sacrifices himself defending the golden throne. Your scenario is both bland and uninspiring.
It's not like the Primarchs, and the legions aren't tools anyway.. not sons but products. Useful tools the Emperor would destroy as he did the Thunder Warriors when their purpose was complete. They never had free will, it would be more interesting if they become aware they are being played on all sides then their actions would become more interesting imop.
Same with Sanguinius. Them coming back would cheapen both deaths to the point hilarity. If he comes back, he should do so the same way as Sanguinius. As a willowy spirit that can affect little in reality and can only vaguely influence anything in the realm of the spirit and the Warp. That's the only way I'd accept Horus back
I had this idea for the return of Sanguinius about the Vengeful Spirit crashing on Baal, the Sanguinius Soul shard that has been trapped there being released while Abbadon fights his way through the Arcs Angelicum and gets to the vaulted doors just as they open and out staggers the Angel; who sees a man with the lightning claw, and tells 'Horus' he will rue this day. That seemed fun. But Imagine a scene where Abaddon, fully fallen to Chaos, hears 'My Son, return my gauntlet' and turns to face his redeemed loyalist Primarch.
Horus coming back would be a minefield but the idea of Abbadon being mistaken for Horus by some form of Sanguinious and as I picture it a room fu of spacemarines suffering the black range. a sea of angelic faces twisted in hate and smeared with blood looking up and uttering one word..."Horus?"
I came into this video not sure what to expect and with the idea that I'd disagree with immediately with what you'd have to say but you have some good points and really gave me something to think about. The idea of a fragment of Horus' soul surviving is very interesting to me. Very good video.
Thanks for watching 😊 I certainly don’t expect everyone to agree with me but, hopefully, everyone can see there’s a possibility where before there wasn’t. Time will tell, of course.
@@Andromansisgiven the end and the death 3… imagine the bit of comedy. He returns just to find Abadon and is like ‘i must save my son!!!’ Blark and Son memez Meanwhile Guiliman, a few more: can… can my brother adopt me? Big E: 💀 Erberus: why do i hear boss music? Lorgar: why do i feel like that threat Horus made after i tried to betray him is more than just a threat now?
@@Reformed322 uk some of us preferred the setting when the primarchs were dead or lost. You can change things without changing the whole vibe of the franchise. Honestly female space Marines are better than bringing back primarchs
Palpatine was originally brought back in the old canon in the Dark Empire comics and it was received better. RoS gave a short, abridged version of that. It's how you bring them bck and use them what matters.
@@RaimoKangasniemi it's not that it was received better it's that is was in general better. They didn't have awful characters like Rey or movies/stories half as bad as the last Jedi or RoS
The thing is that the Disney Star Wars trilogy brought Palpatine back in the stupidest way possible. I'm not opposed to GW bringing Horus back, but they absolutely need to do it well, and one absolutely non-negotiable requirement is that Horus doesn't return as 'Horus Lupical.' He must be a different entity, but he can retain some of his memories and personality, as well as a sense of duty and a need to atone for his past failings. The closest thing we'll ever get to a confirmation of his identity is referring to another Primarch as 'Brother' and they give an affirming nod.
@@RaimoKangasniemi more accurately, his clones came back with at least one time, I believe his force ghost possessed one of the clone bodies. His return in the old canon made better sense.
@@demiurgusgodofform8589i will like this plot like too and after all is said and done this entity with horus soul will finally dissappear in peace finally having a redemption i like it allot
Bring him back, but like a mad dog that's turned on his chaos masters. He doesn't need to be fully redeemed to serve, he just needs to bite the hand that fed him all that chaos power. Show him in single combats off to the side of an epic battle, turning the tide for the Imperium, but he's just tearing down demon princes and greater demons and collecting their eyes on a pike with no concern for anything else. Any space marines in his way also get mowed down, but he kills them swiftly and only takes the eyes from chaos until he's able to see through chaos and its machinations. Showing up time and time again to thwart their plans in a never-ending story of his almost unfathomable rehabilitation as not the war master of the Imperium, but it's most vengeful single spear against chaos.
1. The whole cyclical thing about Samus is weird since Samus is no real figure of consequence in the lore outside the Horus Heresy books. 2. Horus should stay dead. We have Abaddon as his replacement.
Have Horus return as a man changed by the realization of his past acts. Let him under go many trials, in an attempt to not only prove that he has learned his lessons, but also to heal the wounds he has created. Though it may not be enough. In contrast to his founding, he should be the last primarch to return, with only at first a small handful of rumors of a wise pilgrim of great size. Over time these rumors grow, elusive as they are persistent, with these rumors coalescing they will eventually reach the ears of the primarchs. Then along with them, we, the readers, shall put the pieces together. With, one day, the reuniting of brothers, all will have to come to terms with the past, and do what they will from there. For better or for worse.
@@Bgh583 Chimp... the guy betrayed all he knew becouse of a dream ? REALLY. Ok edge lord dumb characters attract you, it does not attract all ppl. Think a bit not everyone its a sub human like you.
Plot Twist: Horus is the star child, he comes back and redeems the traitor legions, they say fuck you Rowboat and your codex, and proceed to steam roll the galaxy.
If Horus returns then, it could have been foreseen by Malcador & The Emperor in one of their chess games. It could even part of an ongoing plan from when The Chaos Meeting took place. 🍸🧐
The only way I can see Horus coming back is at the same time as the Emperor. To balance it out. But I feel it is a bad Idea, big characters should be left dead for the greater good of the story. I fear the push to sell products would be too much. 40k is endangered of becoming that Star wars bad joke "no one really dies" or "something Horus return" Both are not good.
I don't hold the notion that Horus' return would be a negative. I have long held there seems to be something to these threads of stories regarding each of the primarchs still existing in some shape or mysterious form and that a possible "Final Act" of 40k could involve them, and the Emperor in some fashion. One thing I'd seen differently to what you've suggested here was the Cabal and their forseen outcomes. They did seem to present them as a binary between who became victor in the heresy, and had not considered your suggestion of both outcomes being chapters of what would become. But, I'd always understood the resolution of the Heresy to indicate that rather than one or the other outcome, we'd somehow landed an unforseen non-resolution that essentially left the galaxy stuck, without a winner, without an agent to enact their goals and instead left with an interminable and painful stalemate.
Well the imperium should have lost by now if the Cabal were right about that future but here we are and the other future has Chaos fizzling out by now. Neither are true, I think there's definitely a possibility that by some other forces at play these two didn't come to pass but a third unseen future is what we got in the end.
I would be super interested in tjis happening. If they brought Horus back I would love to see the Blood Angels interactions. Also I'd imagine would feel incredible guilt about killing his favorite brother Sanguinius, might be his mission to find a way to resurrect the Angel.
Horus does return as a clone and Abadddon kills him- Ahriman lives in constant hope that fate can be changed which is why Tzeentch keeps him around for laughs (as a consequence I wouldn’t put too much faith in his interpretation)- see rubric of Ahriman for example. Still, interesting take and is a thought provoking perspective.🍻
That 'Horus' wasn't actually Horus though. Fabius Bile only managed to make a grand total of 1 (one) good clone of a Primarch and that is a clone of Fulgrim. Everything else was warped/damaged/defective/mutated. Including the clone of Horus.
In Slaves to Darkness, Horus’ equiry is told a fragment of Horus’ soul was left behind in the warp. That is, the man who came out of the portal on Molech wasn’t fully Horus. This is who the equiry sees fighting in the fields of Khorne Also, in Wolfsbane, after being stabbed with the spear he literally sees himself still fighting in the warp
I see a lot lf negativity in the comments but i feel like recent 40k lore has been awesome. The plaguewar was pretty cool. The Lion's return. I doubt they'll bring back Horus. We may get some clarity on what happened to the souls of the dead primarchs, but the ones who died will stay dead. The events of the heresy are integral to the current setting. No way they ret con all that. It would be decades from now that it ever happened
TLDR he got his redemption and purity in death but doesn't mean the Big E literally wiped out his existence. He had his moment realized what he did wrong and told his father to kill him before the corrupting forces of the warp took him over again.
The bigger glaring issues is with the chaos aligned primarchs because some of them could be redeemed and i think they wouldn't mind coming back. Like Perturabo could be redeemed easily he hates the when the touch of chaos corrupts stuff but as far as returning to the imperium likely never, unless they give him a good reason. Lorgar maybe... that guy is weird... id say give him the fulgrim clone treatment so his clone can have post chaos nut clarity.
@@DirtyMardi The old lore: "The Emperor also knew that the Ruinous Powers could attempt to possess Horus again, and that He would not be there to stop his son again if they did. Driving all of the near-infinite reserves of compassion from His mind for the sake of the humanity He had served and loved all the years of His long life, the Emperor destroyed Horus utterly, his essence burned from existence in both the physical world and the Immaterium so that the Ruinous Powers could not resurrect Horus as a Daemon Prince through their claim on his soul."
Okay, I *really* like this idea - you explain your reasoning well and back it up with citations of both the Lore and the overall themes and tone of Heresy. Admittedly in a setting as dark as the 40K Galaxy I can't quite bring myself to believe that Horus would manifest in any form, as cool as the image of him emerging in front of Abaddon - his Chaos black armour turning back to his original white through a suffusion of golden light) in the throne room (whether the sight of the Horus he properly knew would make Abaddon drop to a knee or not) is to me.
If Horus returns as some sort of spiritual force, it has to be in an especially vague way where it is absolutely 100% unclear and unsure that it is him. That is the only way I would maybe be able to swallow it. I really liked the finality of his death, but accept that 40K is all about ambiguity and that is why it was changed. But I really feel it would undo his arc to have him return in any overt way.
Why is it a binary answer? Horus, and characters across fiction, are written as basically two separate entities. Horus is the archtraitor, the favorite son, the biggest regret, and just a boy wanting to make his father happy. He’s trying to save his father’s empire and his species superiority. He’s also the largest threat to all of those things. Thats why the recognition is so important of his crimes. It’s the culmination of a whole identity. He doesn’t have to be just good or just evil.
@@PeterReid1993 True, but it usually boils down to that because of 2 reasons. #1, in support of your statement we have someone that, maybe, is experience in universe via Alpharius/Omegon where he/they are considered, but not really if he’s/they’re dead, a wild card among the traitors whilst also very certainly trying to aid the Imperium in their own twisted way. #2, in the last book it’s basically stated that Horus did regret where his actions inevitably lead him and has been hinted to have the potential to return. The question now is when he does return does he remember his last moments and if so how will he move next?
Even though Horus experienced clarity of thought and feels regret, he also admits he's not strong enough to resist the temptations of Chaos. So even given a second chance, he'd still be the Ascendant Vessel of Chaos.
I am happy with the change that Dan Abbnett made. Horus is a tragic character, who for me deserves a second chance. I do believe that he is going to return, and logically it is appropriate that he do so as a loyalist. And with the Imperium as it is, what could be better than the return of the best of the primarchs?
except horus stated himself that he can't exist with knowledge of chaos or he will immediately become corrupted. the emperor probably meant he will see horus when the emperor dies.
I'm pretty sure Eldrad was like "whoa whoa whoa prophecies not 100% were gambling a lot on this, if we let chaos win that could be the end of the universe" which is why he goes against the will of the Kabal
Perhaps the primarchs have always existed in the warp and when the emperor went through the gate on moloch he captured their essence and implanted them in his 21 specimens?
The other portent is that it could also mean that the Emperor is going to die... just like Horus, and the 3rd path that Eldrad's plan for a 3rd way came to pass. To be fair to Eldrad, the Cabal never really mentioned it, for Chaos to die with humanity, the Eldar would have had to die as well, a fact that I am sure the other races of the Cabal would have been all to willing to not mention to the Eldar members.
his return is hardly "inevitable", you've just interpreted a couple of passages from a novel as *potentially* leaving the door open for him to come back, knowing full well that the lore leans very heavily indeed against that possibility. not to mention, it would emotionally undercut the emperor killing him and make that whole "burning his soul from the warp" thing utterly meaningless, as well as fundamentally incorrect. not to mention, why wait 10,000 years to come back even if he could? and if he was abandoned by the chaos gods as he died and effectively repented, wouldn't that mean he'd return as a loyalist? *nobody* in the modern imperium would accept him. i dunno, weirdly this reminds me of final fantasy vii and people saying they wish aerith didn't die. sigh... they just don't get it
@@TabletopTom so put aside everything i've said that goes against your proclamation that horus' return is "inevitable"? er, no thanks. that line could mean anything, you even said yourself in the video that it could be a taunt to the chaos pantheon. even if the emperor's saying it to horus, which i admit is almost certainly the case, you've made some pretty big leaps of logic to get from there to "horus is definitely going to be reincarnated"
I had an idea where the fragment of Horus' soul could be reincarnated as a regular human who is unaware of their true origins. They can become an inquisitor(Ordo Malleus or Hereticus) or something but not a space marine. As their story goes on, they go through trails and tribulations that effectively parallel Horus and redeem his past self, and after each trail, he becomes more and more aware of who he is along side his powers reawakening which could initially be interpreted as blessings from the Emperor. This would lead into the 40k End Times where this character finally takes on the mantle of a redeemed loyalist Horus to fight the Gods of Chaos and maybe try and offer his own sons redemption.
Let's not forget how a number of sources have claimed that Abaddon is a clone-son of Horus. Now, judging by Fabius' attempts, it seems that cloned Primarchs don't really live up to the puissance of their originals, which seems to be something to do with souls not being duplicated by the cloning process. Being a man with a good working understanding of daemonology, Abaddon no doubt understands this... and would no doubt relish the opportunity to consume his father's soul, thereby simultaneously coming into his own, and renouncing his past as a Son of Horus. As the armour inscription of one Blackshield legionary put it: "I shall not be by him imprinted, nor by his sin disfigured." The Black Legion isn't just an organisation, it's an ideology.
“I wait for you, and I forgive you”. It feels like after the emperor cut his soul in half, he gave Horus to his soul within the warp. While the sword was intentionally overloaded to prevent it from destroying his soul.
I think Titus is the secret vessel for the return of Horus, this would explain why Titus is resistant to chaos and there is a lot of evidence to suggest Horus death wasn’t final and that the Emperor left some small part of Horus soul intact. Plus this would make Leandro’s more of a interesting character (He’s still very annoying) since he was the only one to believe Titus was evil orrr Titus may be able to pervert the rise of Horus because I do not believe that Titus is evil. One more thing this would explain why Titus heard the Emperor telling him to get up at the end of Space Marine 2 and the visions of him falling to chaos in the secret level episode. All of this would make him the perfect character to bring the fall of chaos or the Imperium
The soul cannot be destroyed, it can only be contained. The fact that Horus not only fell but recognises his failings is the first step on the path to redemption... if he chooses to take it.
I think he will. Maybe he might come back as some random Alpha Legion member or as a seemingly random (at first) Primaris Space Marine that slowly changes back into the original Horus in appearance and soul, but with nothing but sheer remorse for his past sins and unquenchable yet righteous hatred towards Chaos.
Is everything bad in the Imperium down to Erebus? Horus' corruption, Loken's death and of course...that time someone ate Malcadors cheese sandwich despite his name being stamped all over it.
I was sitting there thinking Lokan would be a shadow figure in future 40k and his story would continue as a counter balance to the black legion. Just for that prick erebus to stab him in the back. Although I couldnt hate the closed circle poetry of samus. Almost made me start over the whole series to gain the appreciation. Great writing as always. Makes modern star wars look like a lemon car.
wouldn't be surprised if he comes back. his soul wasn't obliterated like old lore and although Erebus didn't specifically say "Demon Horus" return, we all know what he was hinting at.
I believe that when the Emperor says I wait for you and I forgive you. That he is not speaking to Horus, but rather himself. The dark, calculating and unforgiving side of the Emperor is saying I wait for you. Is directed to his light, loving, forgiving and good side of the Emperor. Which says in turn before its departure from the emperor saying "I forgive you." As from the lore I know, the Emperor's good side left his body before the killed Horus and this good side became the Star child. However, I have no idea whether this is true or not, but it makes sense as to why he would say this before he destroyed his own sons soul. As I know the book says that Horus was destroyed completely, no hidden part of his soul survives. Rather he was destroyed entirely, never to return in the 40k universe. Also a lot of people forget when talking about the Emperor is that he is a perpetual, meaning he cannot die by regular means. I don't fully understand how a perpetual works in 40k, but if the Emperor is left alone (no souls offered to him in sacrifice) then he would be able to return to the living, though with far more psychic power than he had before he was put on the Golden Throne.
The only thing i needed to know part of horus survived was when fabius Bile cloned horus and right before it died he regained at least parts of horus' memories. And the only way i could rationalize that is the memories are carried with the soul
And if he comes back it basically says the emperor isn't as strong as he's portrayed which will also cause the end of the imperium. Because big es power is the main reason he is revered as he is.
So is samus was reborn through loken being stabbed by erebus. Then (based on how you said the emperor split his soul into the warp) could it mean that if the emperor dies or is killed Horus will return to be Big E's avenger. That could be why he's waiting for him and forgives him?
I wonder if Horus' soul was fractured like Magnus' and only shard(s) remain. Maybe not even enough to reform him. Would kind of work if the King in Yellow has the shard of Horus that wanted revenge on the Chaos gods, The Emperor's forgiveness might not have only been for what he had done but what he knew the remaining part of him would go on to try to do to the gods and all humanity?
Horus is living as a Shade on the Back of the Emperors Head. Now the Gulliman-who-lived must find the 7 Horuscruxes and destroy them. that plot basically writes itself :)
Big E basically stabbed him with the Anathema so could still be knocking about in some sense. If Emps does finally awake and become a god then its probably well within his power to bring an uncorrupted Horus back if his soul is still floating about. Hopefully Sangi too
I don't know if I'd necessarily agree that Horus' return is inevitable per say but you've certainly convinced me that there's a precedent in place if he WERE to return, and that at least makes the idea seem a lot more possible to me than it did before. I think if he were to return it wouldn't, or shouldn't, be on the tabletop. Maybe he could appear somewhere in the wider setting, as a sort of echo of the past, or a disembodied presence in the warp, but to me at least that would be like the breaking of the seventh seal as it were. It'd be the final indication that yes, we have passed the point of no return, the final battle is upon us and the end times are here. While technically 40k is in many way the story of the end, just a very slow and agonising end, I think we still have a long way to go yet before the story is truly over. If we do ever see Horus back, it won't be for a long time.
Horus had his very essence wiped out.. he WAS soul killed by the flaming sword ………. If something makes its presence known claiming to be Horus… it’s not him.
I've said for quite a while now that not only will Horus come back when GW starts to run out of ideas/massive centerpiece models since that's all their "war" game is about, but so will Sanguinius. GW regards their own lore as an obstacle at best and an enemy frequently, viewing it with abject contempt.
With the lenghts GW went to in order to explain how his very soul was destroyed and how not even his clones were anything close to him, I highly doubt they will bring him back.
It would be interesting to see his return. Like some have said I would like to see him betray chaos but not a loyalist. Maybe giving us a peek on what did change since the betrayal. Being a 3rd party and seeing that humanity and imperium needs to be fixed. Seeing him plot against what he considers the cancer of the imperium. He could be the outlandish voice of reason that makes too much sense.
I've always thought. Even with old lore saying Horus soul was zipped out. I knew he wouldn't be. He's the main character in the Heresy. The Original 1st son. Which he isn't really Alpharius is truly the 1st son. But son of E. I believe his soul in the warp is working with E. To sabotage Chaos.
If they do bring him back I hope it happens like witl Fulgrim in The Lupercalian Redemption. THough they'd have a lot to live up to given this fic is a banger
If i had to say it personally Mortarion. He hates nurgle and actively struggles against a fate that would make him a daemon prince nurgle. GIven a chance to have his soul redeemed he probably would do that so damn fast.
Personally i hate what Abnett has done to the story. All I wanted was the gaps filled in and the story beats i was expecting to be played out in epic-ness. But it got 'subverted'. Abnett has now made 40k his own 'verse.
@@mpdnullyeah i called out abnett using it to further his inquisitor books story, and just meandering on and doing thing just to do them. It was a pretty straightforward story and we got 3 novels of the emperor walking. We couldn't just have Guilliman was late, instead we got he was late, and even if he wasn't Horus stopped him. what in the world did that add to the story? nothing. just random filler and changing things for the sake of it. (just one example)
'Cause _"No One's Ever _Really _*_Gone...."_* (-GW- _WILL_ do this, and lose even more storytelling credibility than they already have during the 2020's)
@@odst123451 in the old lore the Emperor completely obliterated Horus' soul at the end of their final fight. That was the difference compared to other primarchs. There was no essence left. Now they changed it in the new book and it's super weak. 😒
If the Emperor could destroy Horus uttterly, spiritually, psychically and physically then he absolutely did. He could not allow him to return and be be possessed chaos again. It is the most mercyful act both for Horus and mankind.
I don't see how he could come back as a traightor when he realized he messed up. But, I don't see how he can come back as a loyalist, it just doesnt jive right.
Love it! Great video! You should of touched on how Mortarion killed Gulliman only to have Gulliman fully restored by the Emperor and lit Nurgles Garden up!! We need another video touching on those aspects of where else the emperor could be, more explanation or theory’s on how and when the emperor can manifest but I love the idea of teasing the primarchs are the emperors greater demons in a sense…. I need to catch up on these black library books I feel like I have a decent knowledge and grasp of the lore and then get slapped in the face left and right, while my jaw drops on details I didn’t know. Didn’t know ferus came back as a spirit or Earp entity. Also extremely interested in touching on all the manifestations that happened in the warp at pivotal points ie a Primarch being killed in real space and then what happens or did something happen or manifest good or evil in the warp from that. Awesome video Really enjoyed it! Please keep up the content!🎉
Ferus coming back as some kind of warp entity for a limited time to help or rally or whatever he did when his spirit manifested back. Also I need to hear more about Dante and how Sanguinius came to him when he was near death.. now I’m gonna be searching videos all day on this stuff
Correction: He should *have* touched... "Should of" isn't a legitimate phrase in the English language. You're thinking "should've", which is fine. But "should of" is a nonsensical abomination.
yes, the whole soul destruction thing has been meaningless since Godblight where the ending kind of plays out like something from a trashy a shonen manga where the author's written themselves into a corner.
So...this always cracks me up...Horus was landed on a planet where organized gang hierarchies were the rule and method. It goes down as canon that that was the base strength in both how the Legion, due to it's Primarch, would develop its greatest strengths. I don't know how much 40k nerds pay attention to exactly what gang hierarchy is, but, to use a literary reference, it is Machiavellianism without any concern for subtlety because the lack of subtlety is the point. You work to gain position, at all costs, against those above you in status, at high risk, with the understanding that those who you seek to unseat are seeking to both use you to their ends, and suppress your ability to ascend...and...that those under you are seeking the same pathway to power with you as their next obstacle to it. There is no redeeming Horus...this is his psychographic template, why he ascended to Warmaster, why he used charisma and playing his brothers off against each other to secure this position AND why it was so easy for Chaos to justify his translation of a future where he needed to attain ultimate power. I ask you to consider this...Primarchs...Super Genius entities...and yet, he 'fell for' what is a pretty obvious deception to even a grade school reader of the Black Library. He was hearing what he wanted to hear. His only regret was not winning.
We will see more Primarchs come back, no doubt, and all for it. So glad they have finally taken the story forward, all their dna is locked away, but Horus would be very far away. Emperor even said that he might bring Mortarion back to fold at some point, but away and deal with your new master basically. I can’t wait for the great Angel to come back personally. But, I really want to see what Valdor has planned. Some great stories are coming, good video.
Left field theory the spirit of Horus is inhabiting or impersonating one of the returning primarchs. could explain the extreme personality shifts that have been glimpsed in either.
There are just certain things you should never touch in 40k. Horus is destroyed. Sanguinius is dead and should stay as such (I’m looking at you, BA players), and no female space marines. Some things in the lore should just stay sacred. It’s the basis for the entire setting
I hate to break it to you but sanguinius is almost definitely going to come back too. The Blood Angels have his body in stasis and it's painfully clear most people who like 40k don't understand how Souls work in this universe lmao. Unless its explicitly stated, everybody has *a potential* to come back unless its otherwise explicitly stated their soul is destroyed in the warp. It's not a new thing, this has always been a problem (depending on your perspective) of how the warp functions in conjunction with mortality in the universe. Do I think some characters should stay dead? yes absolutely, but Horus and The Emperor are intrinsically linked, especially shown in TEATD books. You can't bring the emperor back without bringing horus back, especially now that Horus soul wasn't obliterated in the last book.
@@rump438That's what the commentor is saying. Him and many others do in fact how souls work, he's just arguing that they shouldn't come back as it would narratively take away from their first deaths. I agree with him, Sangy died well and so did Horus
I kinda like ur theory and ur interpretation but the BIG problem in the room is that Horus death wasnt just some random death. From all the deaths of characters his one is he most deathly death of all. Not just being simply being killed but literaly wiped out of all planes of existance in the 40k universe. So if the ever bring him back by some weird warp BS then thats the moment evey character death becomes pointless because everytime u gonna think "well they could do the horus thing to bring XY back". Thats like in 90´s TV series were, whenever a important character is "missing in action" u knew hes gonna come back in the next season. But even on maybe disagreeing on that term u video and ur argumentation was ver well done. Worthy of a like^^
While before the End and the Death I wouldn't want Horus and Sanguinius to return, the inevitability that those books brought make me think that, if they return, they should return together Those are the two characters that we never thought would be brought back, so if one comes back and sets up that no return is impossible, it would cheapen the return of the other. A return where the two come back side by side would make both returns feel equally powerful
Horus comes back but he's been in the californication system on the moon of los angleis and now carries a surfboard and just want to be rad and hates bogus vibes
Big bad baldman mustn't return. Emperor destroyed Horus's soul utterly from the warp which showed the power of the emperor. If Horus returns, the Horus heresy and stories will lose it's glory. Just like in DC where every major hero returns after death which became so boring that nobody cares if Superman dies or not.
might aswell bring them all back ya know, im definitely sure Sanguinius is coming back as an archangel or super saint or something and ferrus leading the LOTD, the chaos ones can return by the dark gods power so yeah why the f not, everybody loves primarchs anyway and GW gonna make cash
From my understanding there are very few written in stone events in Warhammer. Horus being dead is on of those things. It could be that Horus is the reason they made the "everything is Canon, nothing is canon" rule, but Horus is dead. EVERYONE else can comeback , except Horus. I don't know they felt the need to "burn his soul from the warp", but thet did.
"Somehow, Horus returned."
_VIBES_
Horus part 2, he’s in town with a few days to kill.
Horus lost the Soul of Primarchs, Emperor literally killed Horus
@@birolaPássaro234yeah I wonder how they going to get him back
He is all the chaos, but you are ALL the imperium 😂
@@birolaPássaro234 but a lot of characters have cheated death though
Blood Angels: 👁️👄👁️
INSTANT black rage for all of them lol
Bro I created a successor chapter of blood angels, I don't want to see them immediately become angy 😭
Blood angels probably: Horuuussss!!!!!! You cannot escape from me Horuussss !!!! I will chase you to the end of The earth And the end of the stars!!!!!!!!!!!
Dont let this man cook again
Don't let Erebus, Lorgar & Co. cook again!
@@flonkplonk1649You can thank Erebus and Lorgar for the setting you know and love. Spread the word.
@@flonkplonk1649 F**k Erebus
he cooked perfectly fine
@@ege8240 he is the anti cooker
I don't ever want Horus to come back, but if GW wants to give Big E a spectral wolf at his right hand during warp shenanigans where he shows up I would dig it.
I had the same idea!
Interesting that you say that. I’ve always believed in headcanon that Big E is fighting the chaos gods in the warp alongside the psychic essences of Malcador and Sanguinius.
That would be crazy!
the true lunar wolf.
I want big e to come back with Gilliland plan to ressurect them but without Magnus who would sit the throne cause it was made for him
The only way I want horus back is as a powerless shade that sits at the steps of the golden throne. When abbadon does breach the eternity gate Horus will beg his son to realize what he didn't: that the dark gods are indeed using him, only to be mocked and laughed off by the Despoiler as a failure.
It wouldn't shake up the setting...it would show that nothing ever happens...you would have all the primarchs back and you would know going forward nothing will ever happen they will all be unkillable I know that's close minded but they will be perpetually un altered and only defeat outside threats.
A far better scenario would be that of the prodigal son who sacrifices himself defending the golden throne. Your scenario is both bland and uninspiring.
It's not like the Primarchs, and the legions aren't tools anyway.. not sons but products. Useful tools the Emperor would destroy as he did the Thunder Warriors when their purpose was complete. They never had free will, it would be more interesting if they become aware they are being played on all sides then their actions would become more interesting imop.
@@DeusMachina71 the Thunder Warriors were killed because of their mental decline.
@@SpawnofChaos2010 you critique his idea in such way while proposing the most unimaginative and cliche story possible in this context. Funny.
Horus´ role was to die in the Horus Heresy. He is done for good.
He literally isn't. The emperor basically flat out say's he's going to come back lol
Same with Sanguinius. Them coming back would cheapen both deaths to the point hilarity. If he comes back, he should do so the same way as Sanguinius. As a willowy spirit that can affect little in reality and can only vaguely influence anything in the realm of the spirit and the Warp. That's the only way I'd accept Horus back
@@rump438 When did this take place? I seem to remember the emperor destroying his soul so he could never come back.
But MODEL!!! 🤩
@@starvinforGarvin "The End and the Death Volume III", the newest and last book of the Siege of Terra
I had this idea for the return of Sanguinius about the Vengeful Spirit crashing on Baal, the Sanguinius Soul shard that has been trapped there being released while Abbadon fights his way through the Arcs Angelicum and gets to the vaulted doors just as they open and out staggers the Angel; who sees a man with the lightning claw, and tells 'Horus' he will rue this day. That seemed fun.
But Imagine a scene where Abaddon, fully fallen to Chaos, hears 'My Son, return my gauntlet' and turns to face his redeemed loyalist Primarch.
"Abaddon, the chosen champion of Chaos Undivided, a despoiler of everything we've built; You are no Son of Horus." - Horus Lupercal, redeemed
Horus coming back would be a minefield but the idea of Abbadon being mistaken for Horus by some form of Sanguinious and as I picture it a room fu of spacemarines suffering the black range. a sea of angelic faces twisted in hate and smeared with blood looking up and uttering one word..."Horus?"
I came into this video not sure what to expect and with the idea that I'd disagree with immediately with what you'd have to say but you have some good points and really gave me something to think about. The idea of a fragment of Horus' soul surviving is very interesting to me. Very good video.
Thanks for watching 😊 I certainly don’t expect everyone to agree with me but, hopefully, everyone can see there’s a possibility where before there wasn’t. Time will tell, of course.
If he ‘comes back’ yeah 40K is over.
False, he is already back and wandering around with the Starchild.
@@Andromansisgiven the end and the death 3… imagine the bit of comedy.
He returns just to find Abadon and is like ‘i must save my son!!!’ Blark and Son memez
Meanwhile Guiliman, a few more: can… can my brother adopt me?
Big E: 💀
Erberus: why do i hear boss music?
Lorgar: why do i feel like that threat Horus made after i tried to betray him is more than just a threat now?
Thank you! It's the "put Taylor in the super bowl" move. They can fk right off. There needs to be constants or nothing matters.
Nah; that would be if Female Space Marines happen.
@@Reformed322 uk some of us preferred the setting when the primarchs were dead or lost. You can change things without changing the whole vibe of the franchise. Honestly female space Marines are better than bringing back primarchs
I can't imagine GW watching the absolute dumpster fire that was bringing Palpatine back, and saying "You know what? We want some of that"
Palpatine was originally brought back in the old canon in the Dark Empire comics and it was received better. RoS gave a short, abridged version of that. It's how you bring them bck and use them what matters.
@@RaimoKangasniemi it's not that it was received better it's that is was in general better. They didn't have awful characters like Rey or movies/stories half as bad as the last Jedi or RoS
The thing is that the Disney Star Wars trilogy brought Palpatine back in the stupidest way possible. I'm not opposed to GW bringing Horus back, but they absolutely need to do it well, and one absolutely non-negotiable requirement is that Horus doesn't return as 'Horus Lupical.' He must be a different entity, but he can retain some of his memories and personality, as well as a sense of duty and a need to atone for his past failings. The closest thing we'll ever get to a confirmation of his identity is referring to another Primarch as 'Brother' and they give an affirming nod.
@@RaimoKangasniemi more accurately, his clones came back with at least one time, I believe his force ghost possessed one of the clone bodies. His return in the old canon made better sense.
@@demiurgusgodofform8589i will like this plot like too and after all is said and done this entity with horus soul will finally dissappear in peace finally having a redemption i like it allot
Bring him back, but like a mad dog that's turned on his chaos masters. He doesn't need to be fully redeemed to serve, he just needs to bite the hand that fed him all that chaos power. Show him in single combats off to the side of an epic battle, turning the tide for the Imperium, but he's just tearing down demon princes and greater demons and collecting their eyes on a pike with no concern for anything else. Any space marines in his way also get mowed down, but he kills them swiftly and only takes the eyes from chaos until he's able to see through chaos and its machinations. Showing up time and time again to thwart their plans in a never-ending story of his almost unfathomable rehabilitation as not the war master of the Imperium, but it's most vengeful single spear against chaos.
He comes back calling himself Cerebus....
This sounds like the Primarch of the Legion of the Damned
1. The whole cyclical thing about Samus is weird since Samus is no real figure of consequence in the lore outside the Horus Heresy books.
2. Horus should stay dead. We have Abaddon as his replacement.
in the book
Lords of Silence
the pail king said "all the primarchs will return" after coming out of a trance thats he been in for a long time...
Even II and XI ???
Have Horus return as a man changed by the realization of his past acts. Let him under go many trials, in an attempt to not only prove that he has learned his lessons, but also to heal the wounds he has created. Though it may not be enough. In contrast to his founding, he should be the last primarch to return, with only at first a small handful of rumors of a wise pilgrim of great size. Over time these rumors grow, elusive as they are persistent, with these rumors coalescing they will eventually reach the ears of the primarchs. Then along with them, we, the readers, shall put the pieces together. With, one day, the reuniting of brothers, all will have to come to terms with the past, and do what they will from there. For better or for worse.
No
@@loserinasuit7880 Elaborate.
Horus should be a broken man. No longer able to fight. He should have a bitter sweet option to redeem himself.
I think there's a Fanfic about that
No he should turn against chaos as a newborn noble , regretful warrior
Horus its a do g sh it character... abadon and his failure crusades have more depth.
@@ArantyrDarkhand yeah nice effort trying to troll kiddo. Tell me you never read the horus heresy without telling me.
@@Bgh583 Chimp... the guy betrayed all he knew becouse of a dream ? REALLY. Ok edge lord dumb characters attract you, it does not attract all ppl. Think a bit not everyone its a sub human like you.
Plot Twist: Horus is the star child, he comes back and redeems the traitor legions, they say fuck you Rowboat and your codex, and proceed to steam roll the galaxy.
If Horus returns then, it could have been foreseen by Malcador & The Emperor in one of their chess games. It could even part of an ongoing plan from when The Chaos Meeting took place. 🍸🧐
The only way I can see Horus coming back is at the same time as the Emperor. To balance it out. But I feel it is a bad Idea, big characters should be left dead for the greater good of the story. I fear the push to sell products would be too much.
40k is endangered of becoming that Star wars bad joke "no one really dies" or "something Horus return"
Both are not good.
I don't hold the notion that Horus' return would be a negative. I have long held there seems to be something to these threads of stories regarding each of the primarchs still existing in some shape or mysterious form and that a possible "Final Act" of 40k could involve them, and the Emperor in some fashion.
One thing I'd seen differently to what you've suggested here was the Cabal and their forseen outcomes. They did seem to present them as a binary between who became victor in the heresy, and had not considered your suggestion of both outcomes being chapters of what would become. But, I'd always understood the resolution of the Heresy to indicate that rather than one or the other outcome, we'd somehow landed an unforseen non-resolution that essentially left the galaxy stuck, without a winner, without an agent to enact their goals and instead left with an interminable and painful stalemate.
Well the imperium should have lost by now if the Cabal were right about that future but here we are and the other future has Chaos fizzling out by now. Neither are true, I think there's definitely a possibility that by some other forces at play these two didn't come to pass but a third unseen future is what we got in the end.
I would be super interested in tjis happening. If they brought Horus back I would love to see the Blood Angels interactions. Also I'd imagine would feel incredible guilt about killing his favorite brother Sanguinius, might be his mission to find a way to resurrect the Angel.
Horus does return as a clone and Abadddon kills him- Ahriman lives in constant hope that fate can be changed which is why Tzeentch keeps him around for laughs (as a consequence I wouldn’t put too much faith in his interpretation)- see rubric of Ahriman for example. Still, interesting take and is a thought provoking perspective.🍻
That 'Horus' wasn't actually Horus though. Fabius Bile only managed to make a grand total of 1 (one) good clone of a Primarch and that is a clone of Fulgrim.
Everything else was warped/damaged/defective/mutated. Including the clone of Horus.
In Slaves to Darkness, Horus’ equiry is told a fragment of Horus’ soul was left behind in the warp. That is, the man who came out of the portal on Molech wasn’t fully Horus. This is who the equiry sees fighting in the fields of Khorne
Also, in Wolfsbane, after being stabbed with the spear he literally sees himself still fighting in the warp
I see a lot lf negativity in the comments but i feel like recent 40k lore has been awesome. The plaguewar was pretty cool. The Lion's return. I doubt they'll bring back Horus. We may get some clarity on what happened to the souls of the dead primarchs, but the ones who died will stay dead. The events of the heresy are integral to the current setting. No way they ret con all that. It would be decades from now that it ever happened
I f*cking hope Horus doesn’t come back.
Just discovered your channel, needed a new lore perspective - great vid!
*Dan Abbnett should have respected the lore that the Emperor completely obliterated Horus' soul.*
TLDR he got his redemption and purity in death but doesn't mean the Big E literally wiped out his existence. He had his moment realized what he did wrong and told his father to kill him before the corrupting forces of the warp took him over again.
The bigger glaring issues is with the chaos aligned primarchs because some of them could be redeemed and i think they wouldn't mind coming back. Like Perturabo could be redeemed easily he hates the when the touch of chaos corrupts stuff but as far as returning to the imperium likely never, unless they give him a good reason. Lorgar maybe... that guy is weird... id say give him the fulgrim clone treatment so his clone can have post chaos nut clarity.
Err… could you help me find the lore excerpt that Horus’ soul was obliterated, because I can’t find it anywhere?
@@DirtyMardiHis soul wasn't obliterated
@@DirtyMardi The old lore:
"The Emperor also knew that the Ruinous Powers could attempt to possess Horus again, and that He would not be there to stop his son again if they did. Driving all of the near-infinite reserves of compassion from His mind for the sake of the humanity He had served and loved all the years of His long life, the Emperor destroyed Horus utterly, his essence burned from existence in both the physical world and the Immaterium so that the Ruinous Powers could not resurrect Horus as a Daemon Prince through their claim on his soul."
Okay, I *really* like this idea - you explain your reasoning well and back it up with citations of both the Lore and the overall themes and tone of Heresy. Admittedly in a setting as dark as the 40K Galaxy I can't quite bring myself to believe that Horus would manifest in any form, as cool as the image of him emerging in front of Abaddon - his Chaos black armour turning back to his original white through a suffusion of golden light) in the throne room (whether the sight of the Horus he properly knew would make Abaddon drop to a knee or not) is to me.
If Horus returns as some sort of spiritual force, it has to be in an especially vague way where it is absolutely 100% unclear and unsure that it is him. That is the only way I would maybe be able to swallow it. I really liked the finality of his death, but accept that 40K is all about ambiguity and that is why it was changed. But I really feel it would undo his arc to have him return in any overt way.
The real question now is, will he return as the Arch-Traitor or as the Emperor’s favorite son?
I personally would prefer he come back as a loyalist. At least that might make his return interesting
Why is it a binary answer? Horus, and characters across fiction, are written as basically two separate entities.
Horus is the archtraitor, the favorite son, the biggest regret, and just a boy wanting to make his father happy. He’s trying to save his father’s empire and his species superiority. He’s also the largest threat to all of those things. Thats why the recognition is so important of his crimes. It’s the culmination of a whole identity. He doesn’t have to be just good or just evil.
@@PeterReid1993
True, but it usually boils down to that because of 2 reasons.
#1, in support of your statement we have someone that, maybe, is experience in universe via Alpharius/Omegon where he/they are considered, but not really if he’s/they’re dead, a wild card among the traitors whilst also very certainly trying to aid the Imperium in their own twisted way.
#2, in the last book it’s basically stated that Horus did regret where his actions inevitably lead him and has been hinted to have the potential to return. The question now is when he does return does he remember his last moments and if so how will he move next?
Even though Horus experienced clarity of thought and feels regret, he also admits he's not strong enough to resist the temptations of Chaos. So even given a second chance, he'd still be the Ascendant Vessel of Chaos.
Some how Horus is back like Palpatine.😅
I am happy with the change that Dan Abbnett made. Horus is a tragic character, who for me deserves a second chance. I do believe that he is going to return, and logically it is appropriate that he do so as a loyalist. And with the Imperium as it is, what could be better than the return of the best of the primarchs?
except horus stated himself that he can't exist with knowledge of chaos or he will immediately become corrupted. the emperor probably meant he will see horus when the emperor dies.
My favorite "Traitir" Primarch.
He will look dope in 40K. Imagine if he joined Imperium instead of Chaos.
you did it horus you are truely is the warhammer 40k
Horus is the star child...
Ayo
Horus being the Star Child instead of the emperor (the lore since the 90s) would be one hell of a plot twist, ngl
I'm pretty sure Eldrad was like "whoa whoa whoa prophecies not 100% were gambling a lot on this, if we let chaos win that could be the end of the universe" which is why he goes against the will of the Kabal
Perhaps the primarchs have always existed in the warp and when the emperor went through the gate on moloch he captured their essence and implanted them in his 21 specimens?
The other portent is that it could also mean that the Emperor is going to die... just like Horus, and the 3rd path that Eldrad's plan for a 3rd way came to pass.
To be fair to Eldrad, the Cabal never really mentioned it, for Chaos to die with humanity, the Eldar would have had to die as well, a fact that I am sure the other races of the Cabal would have been all to willing to not mention to the Eldar members.
his return is hardly "inevitable", you've just interpreted a couple of passages from a novel as *potentially* leaving the door open for him to come back, knowing full well that the lore leans very heavily indeed against that possibility. not to mention, it would emotionally undercut the emperor killing him and make that whole "burning his soul from the warp" thing utterly meaningless, as well as fundamentally incorrect. not to mention, why wait 10,000 years to come back even if he could? and if he was abandoned by the chaos gods as he died and effectively repented, wouldn't that mean he'd return as a loyalist? *nobody* in the modern imperium would accept him. i dunno, weirdly this reminds me of final fantasy vii and people saying they wish aerith didn't die. sigh... they just don't get it
Ok, put everything to the side - explain to me what the ‘I wait for you and I forgive you’ line means? 🤨
@@TabletopTom so put aside everything i've said that goes against your proclamation that horus' return is "inevitable"? er, no thanks. that line could mean anything, you even said yourself in the video that it could be a taunt to the chaos pantheon. even if the emperor's saying it to horus, which i admit is almost certainly the case, you've made some pretty big leaps of logic to get from there to "horus is definitely going to be reincarnated"
I had an idea where the fragment of Horus' soul could be reincarnated as a regular human who is unaware of their true origins. They can become an inquisitor(Ordo Malleus or Hereticus) or something but not a space marine. As their story goes on, they go through trails and tribulations that effectively parallel Horus and redeem his past self, and after each trail, he becomes more and more aware of who he is along side his powers reawakening which could initially be interpreted as blessings from the Emperor. This would lead into the 40k End Times where this character finally takes on the mantle of a redeemed loyalist Horus to fight the Gods of Chaos and maybe try and offer his own sons redemption.
Let's not forget how a number of sources have claimed that Abaddon is a clone-son of Horus. Now, judging by Fabius' attempts, it seems that cloned Primarchs don't really live up to the puissance of their originals, which seems to be something to do with souls not being duplicated by the cloning process. Being a man with a good working understanding of daemonology, Abaddon no doubt understands this... and would no doubt relish the opportunity to consume his father's soul, thereby simultaneously coming into his own, and renouncing his past as a Son of Horus.
As the armour inscription of one Blackshield legionary put it: "I shall not be by him imprinted, nor by his sin disfigured." The Black Legion isn't just an organisation, it's an ideology.
“I wait for you, and I forgive you”. It feels like after the emperor cut his soul in half, he gave Horus to his soul within the warp. While the sword was intentionally overloaded to prevent it from destroying his soul.
I think Titus is the secret vessel for the return of Horus, this would explain why Titus is resistant to chaos and there is a lot of evidence to suggest Horus death wasn’t final and that the Emperor left some small part of Horus soul intact. Plus this would make Leandro’s more of a interesting character (He’s still very annoying) since he was the only one to believe Titus was evil orrr Titus may be able to pervert the rise of Horus because I do not believe that Titus is evil. One more thing this would explain why Titus heard the Emperor telling him to get up at the end of Space Marine 2 and the visions of him falling to chaos in the secret level episode. All of this would make him the perfect character to bring the fall of chaos or the Imperium
That would be just as shitty as if the Emperor comes back from the dead.
The soul cannot be destroyed, it can only be contained. The fact that Horus not only fell but recognises his failings is the first step on the path to redemption... if he chooses to take it.
I think he will. Maybe he might come back as some random Alpha Legion member or as a seemingly random (at first) Primaris Space Marine that slowly changes back into the original Horus in appearance and soul, but with nothing but sheer remorse for his past sins and unquenchable yet righteous hatred towards Chaos.
Is everything bad in the Imperium down to Erebus? Horus' corruption, Loken's death and of course...that time someone ate Malcadors cheese sandwich despite his name being stamped all over it.
I was sitting there thinking Lokan would be a shadow figure in future 40k and his story would continue as a counter balance to the black legion. Just for that prick erebus to stab him in the back. Although I couldnt hate the closed circle poetry of samus. Almost made me start over the whole series to gain the appreciation. Great writing as always. Makes modern star wars look like a lemon car.
wouldn't be surprised if he comes back. his soul wasn't obliterated like old lore and although Erebus didn't specifically say "Demon Horus" return, we all know what he was hinting at.
I believe that when the Emperor says I wait for you and I forgive you. That he is not speaking to Horus, but rather himself. The dark, calculating and unforgiving side of the Emperor is saying I wait for you. Is directed to his light, loving, forgiving and good side of the Emperor. Which says in turn before its departure from the emperor saying "I forgive you." As from the lore I know, the Emperor's good side left his body before the killed Horus and this good side became the Star child. However, I have no idea whether this is true or not, but it makes sense as to why he would say this before he destroyed his own sons soul. As I know the book says that Horus was destroyed completely, no hidden part of his soul survives. Rather he was destroyed entirely, never to return in the 40k universe. Also a lot of people forget when talking about the Emperor is that he is a perpetual, meaning he cannot die by regular means. I don't fully understand how a perpetual works in 40k, but if the Emperor is left alone (no souls offered to him in sacrifice) then he would be able to return to the living, though with far more psychic power than he had before he was put on the Golden Throne.
The only thing i needed to know part of horus survived was when fabius Bile cloned horus and right before it died he regained at least parts of horus' memories. And the only way i could rationalize that is the memories are carried with the soul
how his soul was totally destoyed by the emperor
And if he comes back it basically says the emperor isn't as strong as he's portrayed which will also cause the end of the imperium. Because big es power is the main reason he is revered as he is.
if Horus were ever to come back, im making a 10k points Chaos Army to go along with him ....
So is samus was reborn through loken being stabbed by erebus. Then (based on how you said the emperor split his soul into the warp) could it mean that if the emperor dies or is killed Horus will return to be Big E's avenger. That could be why he's waiting for him and forgives him?
I wonder if Horus' soul was fractured like Magnus' and only shard(s) remain. Maybe not even enough to reform him. Would kind of work if the King in Yellow has the shard of Horus that wanted revenge on the Chaos gods, The Emperor's forgiveness might not have only been for what he had done but what he knew the remaining part of him would go on to try to do to the gods and all humanity?
naaaaaah
but i do sense some kind of "end times" to be retckoned later for marketting purposes
Might move into 50k 😂
They did it for warhammer fantasy and the retcon into age of sigmar.
It seriously wouldn't surprise me tbh.
Horus is living as a Shade on the Back of the Emperors Head.
Now the Gulliman-who-lived must find the 7 Horuscruxes and destroy them.
that plot basically writes itself :)
It's a shame Keith Chegwin isn't with us anymore; he'd have been perfect being cast as Horus.
Big E basically stabbed him with the Anathema so could still be knocking about in some sense.
If Emps does finally awake and become a god then its probably well within his power to bring an uncorrupted Horus back if his soul is still floating about. Hopefully Sangi too
I don't know if I'd necessarily agree that Horus' return is inevitable per say but you've certainly convinced me that there's a precedent in place if he WERE to return, and that at least makes the idea seem a lot more possible to me than it did before. I think if he were to return it wouldn't, or shouldn't, be on the tabletop. Maybe he could appear somewhere in the wider setting, as a sort of echo of the past, or a disembodied presence in the warp, but to me at least that would be like the breaking of the seventh seal as it were. It'd be the final indication that yes, we have passed the point of no return, the final battle is upon us and the end times are here. While technically 40k is in many way the story of the end, just a very slow and agonising end, I think we still have a long way to go yet before the story is truly over. If we do ever see Horus back, it won't be for a long time.
Horus had his very essence wiped out.. he WAS soul killed by the flaming sword ………. If something makes its presence known claiming to be Horus… it’s not him.
Watch the Emperor damn video, or better yet, read the book.
@@Miron_Marnic you’re not my dad, you can’t tell me what to do!
No he isn’t coming back. He is legit dead. Like he is fucking dead dead. Like his soul was literally shattered.
I thought the Emperor literally made it that he cannot ever come back .
I've said for quite a while now that not only will Horus come back when GW starts to run out of ideas/massive centerpiece models since that's all their "war" game is about, but so will Sanguinius. GW regards their own lore as an obstacle at best and an enemy frequently, viewing it with abject contempt.
With the lenghts GW went to in order to explain how his very soul was destroyed and how not even his clones were anything close to him, I highly doubt they will bring him back.
It would be interesting to see his return. Like some have said I would like to see him betray chaos but not a loyalist. Maybe giving us a peek on what did change since the betrayal. Being a 3rd party and seeing that humanity and imperium needs to be fixed. Seeing him plot against what he considers the cancer of the imperium. He could be the outlandish voice of reason that makes too much sense.
I've always thought. Even with old lore saying Horus soul was zipped out. I knew he wouldn't be. He's the main character in the Heresy. The Original 1st son. Which he isn't really Alpharius is truly the 1st son. But son of E. I believe his soul in the warp is working with E. To sabotage Chaos.
If they do bring him back I hope it happens like witl Fulgrim in The Lupercalian Redemption. THough they'd have a lot to live up to given this fic is a banger
If he returns then next I'm waiting for Ferrus Manus with a detachable head.
If Horus can come back, why can't everyone else?
If i had to say it personally Mortarion. He hates nurgle and actively struggles against a fate that would make him a daemon prince nurgle.
GIven a chance to have his soul redeemed he probably would do that so damn fast.
Personally i hate what Abnett has done to the story. All I wanted was the gaps filled in and the story beats i was expecting to be played out in epic-ness. But it got 'subverted'. Abnett has now made 40k his own 'verse.
@@mpdnullyeah i called out abnett using it to further his inquisitor books story, and just meandering on and doing thing just to do them. It was a pretty straightforward story and we got 3 novels of the emperor walking. We couldn't just have Guilliman was late, instead we got he was late, and even if he wasn't Horus stopped him. what in the world did that add to the story? nothing. just random filler and changing things for the sake of it. (just one example)
No. Just no.
Horus becomes a sort of Herald of Malal/Malice - Chaos against Chaos? 💥⚔️🤔😎💪
Loved it. Amazing insight.
Cheers buddy ☺️
Ferrus Manus has more chance of growing a new head or Sanguinius being reborn from a tumor on Dantes neck than Horus coming back.
Where are you getting your background art? Awesome stuff I've never seen.
'Cause _"No One's Ever _Really _*_Gone...."_* (-GW- _WILL_ do this, and lose even more storytelling credibility than they already have during the 2020's)
Not really. It’s been a question for a while as to wether or not the Emperor can resurrect a fallen Primarch.
He brought the Khan back.
@@odst123451 in the old lore the Emperor completely obliterated Horus' soul at the end of their final fight.
That was the difference compared to other primarchs.
There was no essence left.
Now they changed it in the new book and it's super weak. 😒
@@JanFWeh Yea, in the old lore, the Primarchs weren’t the Emperor’s sons either.
I prefer this ending.
If the Emperor could destroy Horus uttterly, spiritually, psychically and physically then he absolutely did. He could not allow him to return and be be possessed chaos again. It is the most mercyful act both for Horus and mankind.
If the emperor fits the role of Osiris, It's all foreshadowed.
I don't see how he could come back as a traightor when he realized he messed up. But, I don't see how he can come back as a loyalist, it just doesnt jive right.
I think it would be interesting if Horus came back, but wasn’t corrupted by chaos and was trying to right his wrongs and redeem himself.
Honestly only way I would like Horus to “comeback” is as an HQ choice in a possible codex legion of the damned
Love it! Great video!
You should of touched on how Mortarion killed Gulliman only to have Gulliman fully restored by the Emperor and lit Nurgles Garden up!! We need another video touching on those aspects of where else the emperor could be, more explanation or theory’s on how and when the emperor can manifest but I love the idea of teasing the primarchs are the emperors greater demons in a sense…. I need to catch up on these black library books I feel like I have a decent knowledge and grasp of the lore and then get slapped in the face left and right, while my jaw drops on details I didn’t know. Didn’t know ferus came back as a spirit or Earp entity.
Also extremely interested in touching on all the manifestations that happened in the warp at pivotal points ie a Primarch being killed in real space and then what happens or did something happen or manifest good or evil in the warp from that.
Awesome video
Really enjoyed it! Please keep up the content!🎉
Ferus coming back as some kind of warp entity for a limited time to help or rally or whatever he did when his spirit manifested back.
Also I need to hear more about Dante and how Sanguinius came to him when he was near death.. now I’m gonna be searching videos all day on this stuff
Correction: He should *have* touched... "Should of" isn't a legitimate phrase in the English language. You're thinking "should've", which is fine. But "should of" is a nonsensical abomination.
@@DeezZee612i mean there isn't much more to the dante story than what you said. dante died. sanguinius showed up and said no go back. Dante woke up.
yes, the whole soul destruction thing has been meaningless since Godblight where the ending kind of plays out like something from a trashy a shonen manga where the author's written themselves into a corner.
I thought when the emperor used all his physik might into his sword strike it utterly destroyed his soul it was erased from all creation
So...this always cracks me up...Horus was landed on a planet where organized gang hierarchies were the rule and method. It goes down as canon that that was the base strength in both how the Legion, due to it's Primarch, would develop its greatest strengths. I don't know how much 40k nerds pay attention to exactly what gang hierarchy is, but, to use a literary reference, it is Machiavellianism without any concern for subtlety because the lack of subtlety is the point. You work to gain position, at all costs, against those above you in status, at high risk, with the understanding that those who you seek to unseat are seeking to both use you to their ends, and suppress your ability to ascend...and...that those under you are seeking the same pathway to power with you as their next obstacle to it. There is no redeeming Horus...this is his psychographic template, why he ascended to Warmaster, why he used charisma and playing his brothers off against each other to secure this position AND why it was so easy for Chaos to justify his translation of a future where he needed to attain ultimate power. I ask you to consider this...Primarchs...Super Genius entities...and yet, he 'fell for' what is a pretty obvious deception to even a grade school reader of the Black Library. He was hearing what he wanted to hear. His only regret was not winning.
We will see more Primarchs come back, no doubt, and all for it.
So glad they have finally taken the story forward, all their dna is locked away, but Horus would be very far away.
Emperor even said that he might bring Mortarion back to fold at some point, but away and deal with your new master basically.
I can’t wait for the great Angel to come back personally.
But, I really want to see what Valdor has planned.
Some great stories are coming, good video.
It's is indeed very reasonable lore thing, that Horus comeback. I just think that could be earlier.
His clone was killed, and in 40k his soul was destroyed. He's not coming back in M.42.
Left field theory the spirit of Horus is inhabiting or impersonating one of the returning primarchs. could explain the extreme personality shifts that have been glimpsed in either.
There are just certain things you should never touch in 40k. Horus is destroyed. Sanguinius is dead and should stay as such (I’m looking at you, BA players), and no female space marines.
Some things in the lore should just stay sacred. It’s the basis for the entire setting
I hate to break it to you but sanguinius is almost definitely going to come back too. The Blood Angels have his body in stasis and it's painfully clear most people who like 40k don't understand how Souls work in this universe lmao. Unless its explicitly stated, everybody has *a potential* to come back unless its otherwise explicitly stated their soul is destroyed in the warp. It's not a new thing, this has always been a problem (depending on your perspective) of how the warp functions in conjunction with mortality in the universe.
Do I think some characters should stay dead? yes absolutely, but Horus and The Emperor are intrinsically linked, especially shown in TEATD books. You can't bring the emperor back without bringing horus back, especially now that Horus soul wasn't obliterated in the last book.
@@rump438That's what the commentor is saying. Him and many others do in fact how souls work, he's just arguing that they shouldn't come back as it would narratively take away from their first deaths. I agree with him, Sangy died well and so did Horus
I kinda like ur theory and ur interpretation but the BIG problem in the room is that Horus death wasnt just some random death. From all the deaths of characters his one is he most deathly death of all. Not just being simply being killed but literaly wiped out of all planes of existance in the 40k universe.
So if the ever bring him back by some weird warp BS then thats the moment evey character death becomes pointless because everytime u gonna think "well they could do the horus thing to bring XY back".
Thats like in 90´s TV series were, whenever a important character is "missing in action" u knew hes gonna come back in the next season.
But even on maybe disagreeing on that term u video and ur argumentation was ver well done. Worthy of a like^^
While before the End and the Death I wouldn't want Horus and Sanguinius to return, the inevitability that those books brought make me think that, if they return, they should return together
Those are the two characters that we never thought would be brought back, so if one comes back and sets up that no return is impossible, it would cheapen the return of the other. A return where the two come back side by side would make both returns feel equally powerful
I think that's a really fair point. 😄
He returns to fight for the Imperium
If Horus returns then Sanguinius absolutely has too as well.
He cant return. His soul was ripped apart and destroyed by Big E...
Horus comes back but he's been in the californication system on the moon of los angleis and now carries a surfboard and just want to be rad and hates bogus vibes
Kinda hard to come back from being erased from existence.
You’d be surprised 😅
Big bad baldman mustn't return. Emperor destroyed Horus's soul utterly from the warp which showed the power of the emperor. If Horus returns, the Horus heresy and stories will lose it's glory. Just like in DC where every major hero returns after death which became so boring that nobody cares if Superman dies or not.
might aswell bring them all back ya know, im definitely sure Sanguinius is coming back as an archangel or super saint or something and ferrus leading the LOTD, the chaos ones can return by the dark gods power so yeah why the f not, everybody loves primarchs anyway and GW gonna make cash
From my understanding there are very few written in stone events in Warhammer. Horus being dead is on of those things.
It could be that Horus is the reason they made the "everything is Canon, nothing is canon" rule, but Horus is dead. EVERYONE else can comeback , except Horus.
I don't know they felt the need to "burn his soul from the warp", but thet did.