I've said it before and I'll keep saying it, simply knowing chaos exists is like a cognito-hazard is the SCP universe. An admittedly low level cognito-hazard, but it will still infect the mind and slowly spread. Subverting the will of the weak minded, and most people even with an education are in fact weak minded.
I think the problem with Erda is in alot of the context you guys don't know about. She is not the first or the last Perpetual to side with the Emp but she was around the longest. Alot of them came to the exact same issues and either pushed back or left. Erda aided and abetted the Emp for essentially tens of thousands of years. She understands the setting as well as he does. Which is to say that she was functionally an enabler. Its hard to argue abuse because the Emp seemed to hold most Perpetuals at around his level and only killed ones that were willing to declare open war on him. She was a willing participant in creating the Primarchs, and like the Emp, viewed them as toy soldiers (Perpetuals without pesky opinions). She does not phrase it as a sacrifice of her children to John, she phrases it as taking weapons away from the Emp. So she functionally doomed half of her children to hell with about as much care as the Emp, if you use your standard. With respect, I think the Emp is a monster but I think alot of folks refuse to hold others to the same standard. Case in point, Primarchs killing their own Astartes (their 'sons' hard wired to not be able to defend themselves from their 'fathers') out of hand for pretty petty reasons long before the Heresy. Pert had his Legion decimated for failing to live up to his standards as his first command. And this man has the gall to complain about being underappreciated and the Lion punched the head off of a Chaplain for disagreeing with him.
I mean those examples you gave of people refusing to hold others to the same standard are of two of the Primarch's people call dickhead shit dad's the most. I really don't see this broad double standard you say people apply to the Emperor vs everyone else. People talk as much shit about a lot of the Primarchs as they do on the Emperor. And the addition of Erda to the lore in general people dislike just because the explanation for how the Primarchs got flung into space was worse than just leaving it alone so she definitely doesn't really get much leniency either. Like I'm legit confused people constantly call Perturabo a shit awful dad along with Angron and plenty of others. The Emperor gets a lot of shit but he's also the impetus for all his children being genocidal warmongers to begin with so while he's sometimes a good dad (to the ones he likes) unlike Perturabo overall he's the figurehead guiding everything so yeah he's going to get more shit at the same time.
I guess the bit I take issue with is "she functionally doomed half her children." Yes, we know half of them fell to Chaos. The other half stayed on as the Emperor's weapons (putting aside the two Emps is implied to have just had killed). Ngl, it seems like /all/ of them were doomed in one way or another. The Emperor is, in his own way, just as much a twisting sounds-better-than-it-is force as Chaos.
@@jarrakul Worth noting I was referring to their upbringing. I disagree with your opinion because we have read Angron's mindstate as a Daemon Prince, it is pages of description about how much worse it is than he could have imagined (specifically that all his previous suffering is rendered meaningless). But most of them having terrible, abusive or otherwise traumatizing childhoods was my meaning. Even a fairly okay one like Corax makes me think someone has never grasped how bad it would be to be a child in guerilla cell in a pitch black prison, if they think that isn't a horrific childhood. Especially compared to Alpharius, if his childhood story in the Primarch book isnt a lie but who knows, who was raised by the Emp and has what seemed like a fairly decent upbringing. Tough but nowhere near even what Russ had to deal with.
"why did they name a planet murder? Lmao" Well, as thet landed on the planet, the only radio message back was one Marine screaming "THIS PLANET IS MURDER!" So they named it Murder lmao
And that's historically accurate, we have many cases as such. The Yucatlán peninsula was named as such because when the spaniards asked the name of the place, the indigenous people replied with "i don't understand what you say" and they thought it was the name. Rivers named Avon (celtic for river) and the great desert desert (Sahara is translated as desert). So, yeah, people have a tendency to take on names because someone just said so lol
My recollection is that Murder was named that because the fighting against the Megarachnids was so fierce that 'Murder' was the only adequate description for the world.
@@pablonunalvares5391 Canada, the french landed near an iroquois settlement, the chief said "that's my village", which in Iroquoian is called "Kanata" pronounced "Ganada", the french explorer thought "Okay, all this land is called Canada" XD
My favorite joke answer for why the Emperor made all the primarchs men was he knew "the internet would not be able to control themselves with twenty 12ft tall buff amazonian demigods running around. The amount of horny would be out of control"
So, names have power over warp entities, and primarchs are like 20% physical marvels of genetic enginering and 80% warp spagetty. I think, without a name Horus had no connection to his warp half, and thus was just a guy with good genetics without the nutrients to really grow. When he got the name, he suplimented that with warp stuff and instantly reached his intended physical state
You're gonna tell me the guy who can see multiple futures at almost all times, is 13ft tall, literally glowing, knows they're surrounded on all sides by enemies constantly coming for you! Didn't have the time to properly unite humanity and basically said "its now or never!" was wrong... No, you can it is but not accurate, like literally people break down working at fast food because they deem it stressful, this man had to build a galactic empire or humanity fades into the night! but i'm also a death korp lover so I can be biased 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Erda's at fault for why 8 of the traitor Primarchs (minus Magnus) had such terrible upbringings, but she's also the reason why 8 of the remaining loyalists (minus the Lion) turned out better than if they had been with Big E the entire time. She's also the reason we have Guilli-mom, so it kinda balances itself out.
@@ALJ9000 yeah but the fact that there were 20primarchs prior to the scrubbing gives a good indication that what ever happened wasn't specifically because they were primarchs, much like how Big E publicly humiliated Lorgar for expressly going against his wishes by making people believe he was a god, it's very possible that during the rongdong genocide their upbringing clashed with what the Emperor needed done in such a way that they had to be scrubbed..... In a more theory side of things they might of found out about chaos and not only didn't see it as a problem but full joined the rongdong. What's worse then having one of your massive near demigod sons proclaim your a god, having two use Biomancy to make offshoot space Marines
Malcador: "Hey big E, we should have some dommy mommy female Primarchs. Emperor: *looks at Malcador's collection of M.3 muscle girl hentai* Emperor: ಠ_ಠ
Erda isn't just "small", she's also pretty NEW. I wholeheartedly believe that part of the hate against her is based on how her role in the scattering basically made her into a lynchpin, scapegoat, what-have-you. As opposed to how it was in the past: "for unknown reasons, these babies in their incubator pods were scattered throughout the galaxy".
I don't know her story, but I like to think that she was fooled, seeing the future and then causing it to happen through her own attempt to prevent it from happening, like when Horus saw the future.
People don't like her because she's a plot device, not a character. If you're going to strip away the mystery you need to do better than a bland plot device who makes poor decisions for terrible reasons.
@@mouseinthehouse_ Agreed. Also, with the Chaos Gods already involved in the whole "fling the baby Primarchs into the Warp/space", why did there have to be yet another factor?
@TF2CrunchyFrog this is the real question I've been asking since her bit of lore came so long after first heretic. We were good to blame the word bearers for going back in time and making it possible for the warp to whisk them away and then it turned out to be erda? Why?
There's a point in the story where he even tells (I think it was) Malcador as he asked, "Why do they call you father?" And Emps remembers the story of Pinocchio and how Pinocchio called the man who created it father and equates it to the same thing
Yeah that was an interesting part of the story. It was in the Master of Mankind book, I think he was talking to Ra the custodian. I like when he describes how seeing the future is like climbing a cliff and you don’t know the right path but you can see the top.
Yes, it was Arkhan Land. And the whole point of that book is that everyone sees and perceives the Emperor differently. Because he actively uses his powers to enforce the version of himself they expect to ensure they are as devoted and loyal as possible. Arkhan Land expected the human avatar of the Machine God. Emotionless, Monotone, utterly removed from human compassion. And that's how the Emperor appeared to him. But to the Custodes he was basically this philosopher warrior king prone to navel gazing and grand Socratic statements. Its because Big E is always putting on an illusion to better achieve his ends. Everyone takes the "Oh he doesn't care for his sons" statement as literal truth, when the very same book contradicts it.
There's also the weirdness where the Emperor speaks weirdly, where the idea takes on the words the recipient wants to hear. Hence why he speaks so coldly with that AdMech guy but is the exact opposite to Best Boi Sanguinius.
He is such an immensly powerful psyker that he appears to everyone how it best suits them. To Fulgrim every of his words is a poem, to Guilliman he is almost sterile matter of fact, to Vulkan he is an honourful competitor. One story implied he was just an average looking guy, but that too could just come from the character who saw him. It is even questionable to what degree he can control that ability.
Partway through, I'll just drop this here because I'm listening while getting ready for work. Erda's choice to fling the children out through the stars had a damning effect because of how ABUSED some of the Primarchs were. Lorgar, Angron, Mortarion, f**cking Conrad Kurze for crying out loud. These characters had a potential for greatness and nobility that was stripped of them by the abuse and mental damage they suffered in their youths (although Angron still had a great deal of his nobility present during his time as a slave, it is Emps direct actions that made him absolutely bitter and hateful to his 'Father' and his Legion). However, I doubt that we would have had the good men we DID get if Erda hadn't, 20 sons raised and trained by Emps would have lost those unique experiences Guilliman, Vulkan, Leman, and the Khan had that made them exceptional....or in Leman's case, the wild man. 20 sons under Emps may not have fallen to Chaos. But they definitely would have still rebelled eventually with how Big E didn't ever see them as anything but tools. Damned if she did, damned if she didn't.
@@InvisibleYogurt Fine is being very charitable when he's literally a spymaster and master assassin and plunges worlds into poverty disarray and anarchy and is also a smug dick. Not the worst of the Primarchs but definitely not "fine" lmao
Independently of what happened to the primarchs, the Emperor jumpstarting the Great Crusade to reunite with his sons / getting his most valuable tools back had even worse effects on humanity itself since a) he only haphazardly resolved the relationship with the Mechanicum, b) he still had to resolve some vital technological problems (human webway) and c) he appearantly had not yet made many preparations for the transition to a civilian government. All of which would come to bite them in the rear during the Horus Heresy. Of course, she could not know how relatively easily the Emperor would find the Primarchs in the immense vastness of space. For all she knew the conquests would have to eventually fail without the Emperor's greatest generals, sparing humanity the iron fist of his rule and giving their sons a chance to a live unburdened by his ambitions. But that is not how things go in WH40k.
@@InvisibleYogurt As the other guy noted: Omegon/Alpharius (whichever one it really was) is also a pathological liar and basically admitted his whole book's truthfulness was even in question. That is far from a good definition of 'fine'. XD
@Nickname-ef9tv Yeah, in the book that wrapped up her story, someone tried to blame her, and I believe her response was, "He didnt have to go looking for them. I thought he would've stopped." And she talked about them with a weird tone, like she considered them as both a piece of her and weapons of destruction
Geneseed, to clarify, are the organs implanted to make a space marine. There are roughly around… 18(?) of them? But when they want to extract geneseed from a dead marine, theyre actually just extracting one of those organs, the progenoid gland, which is basically what produces the bacteria, dna, germs or whatever to make the new organs work!
Horus was one of the only primarchs who wanted his men educated and cultured because he believed one day war would end and his immortal sons would need to be suited for a galaxy at peace.
Actually there's a decent chunk of them like that. The Khan, Roboute, Sanginius, Fulgrim, Magnus, Vulkan to a degree, and arguably Lorgar too with teaching them to be scribes, missionaries, and philosophers. To be fair they didn't all do it because hey you need to be ready for peacetime but in regards to teaching and encouraging their sons to branch out beyond just being tools of war I think they all count.
@@Pragabond Khan was gobsmacked by suddenly being at peace after he had conquered his planet and he had no idea what to do with his armies or just himself. Before he could resolve this the Emperor arrived and he could once more fullfill the only purpose he knew.
magnus was all into education and having his men learn ways to help the common people most of the main surgeons on prospero where marines and magnus made the best wine in the galaxy its just that the legion that was made to be psychic on a planet full of psychers and not told about the dangers of the warp did things using the things they knew
so i might be remembering this wrong, but i think they called the planet "Murder" because they sent down a group of space marines, and all that came back was a transmission with the sounds of screaming and the words of the last survivor were "This planet is murder!"
What makes the Emperor being a tyrant/savior thing and basically being "trust me I am right it's better if no one else knows" a more interesting dynamic is the fact that he was right. Knowledge of the chaos gods and chaos in general strenghtens it, makes it real, gives it purchase in real space. So keeping it all a secret was actually the best way, but it all went wrong.
The real real problem is that he didn't have a suitable back plan. His main plan was the Web Way and that was it. And now merely as an opinion, he should have carefully talked about Chaos with some of his more reasonable Primarchs, not all of them of course.
Precisely! And there is also the matter that telling certain Primarchs like Lorgar and Magnus the truth either would have only, or could have caused far more harm than good. Magnus is far too arrogant and reckless and Lorgar needs no explanation. Not to mention that Sanguinius nearly fell to chaos to save his sons from the red thirst, Fulgrim had his nature and body corrupted by a Deamon sword, and Mortarion fell to Nurgle to save his sons. And they didn’t even know what Chaos was. To say nothing of some people like Argel Tal, Perturabo and the Night Lords. Argel became horrified with what happened to him and the legion after joining Chaos, only sticking with it because his geneseed makes it nearly impossible to disobey Lorgar. Curze and the night lords hated Chaos, seeing it as weak and pathetic, ironic coming from them. And Perturabo and his sons are non religious pragmatists that actively look down on Chaos and treat is as a tool. They use deamon engines as cannon fodder for crying out loud. Heck Lorgar of all people was disgusted and horrified by Daemon possessed soldiers and the Nurgle zombies because the people’s bodies, living or dead, were just flesh puppets. Where his Gal Vorback like Argel, the Deamon Primarchs, or champions like Kharn and Typhus, were “human and Daemon as one”. At least in his eyes they were.
Sorry if you mention any of this later on but I've gotta comment it before i completely forget. There's a line in one of the Horus Heresy books where Horus is talking in the accent if the part of Cathonia where he APARRENTLY grew up and the marine he's talking to who WAS born there comments on how there are subtle tells that make him think that maybe Horus didn't REALY grow up there. My theory is that maybe not ALL of the Primarchs were scattered, or at least maybe not scattered to where they're claimed to have been scattered to.
Just like to point out that the reason most fans hate Erda isn't because she's a woman or the mother of the primarchs, it's because she's a retcon. For years, there was no question of who the players were that were involved in the creation of the primarchs, and then suddenly GW shoehorned this new character that changes everything, and it became slightly infuriating for fans because it wasn't the first time stuff like this happened to the lore. It'd be like if Disney changed the lore between TESB and ROTJ and added a new character who was the actual person who trained Luke to become a jedi and not Yoda. It's really just unnecessary and infuriating. Whatever comments you guys read that hate her specifically because she's a woman, I suggest you ignore them because chances are those are made by people who are new to the franchise, and because 40K is becoming popular, they're using it as a battlefield for their culture war. I love that I discovered your channel and just felt like I needed to throw in my opinion on this, and I hope you guys keep up the series.
Totally appreciate your input! I know most fans are wonderful, and as we talked about it totally makes sense to not like her for many many reasons. It’s a lot to do with the words used (some weirdly out of pocket sexist vocab) that made it feel worth mentioning. And again, this has been very much the minority. From what I’m learning it seems like most of warhammer is retconned in various ways so it gets a bit confusing. But I think that’s also one of the awesome things about it! There’s so much - more than enough for everyone to find things that they like. I’m loving learning more and more, and I’m glad you’re enjoying it too!! 🥰
@@KarilynneDavies you should've added to the video that it's believed that everything that's happened so far in the lore is exactly what The Big E wanted to happen. To elaborate, in one of the novels, I can't remember which Konrad and Sanguinius are fighting, and Konrad points out how they are both able to see into the future, which begs the question: if both are able to see into the future in so far as Sanguinius being able to foresee his own death, how much further into the future was The Big E able to see? This may also explain why he didn't kill Erda, because that was exactly what he wanted to happen. It's also kind of interesting how each primarch was already perfectly adaptable to the environment of the worlds they landed on and how he treated the primarchs that would be loyal to him significantly better than the ones who would turn traitor.
So far I have found that the only franchise that pulls off retcons with any degree of competency is Battletech. Cheesy cartoon in the 1990s has a story conflicting with a lot of the established lore? It is now an in-universe children's show meant as anti-Clan propaganda, problem solved. Remember those mercenaries that showed up mysteriously and fought for every major faction against every faction? They were an advanced scouting force for the Clans this entire time, but they went native and are going to help against the Clan Invasion.
Corvus Corax had some serious issues with Horus. Horus didn't let Corax use his feint-based strategies in a major battle (Battle of Gate Fourty-Two) and forced Corax to waste thousands of marines in a frontal assault on a fortified position. Horus had the Iron Warriors (siege specialists), Space Wolves (assault), and Luna Wolves (assault), but chose the Raven Guard (guerilla warfare specialists) to charge at a fortress.
The reason why they call the planet Murder is because the last transmission a group of space marines sent back to their ship was “This planet is murder.”
When you do Konrad Curze, having the opening skit just be the “From this moment on, *none* of you are safe” speech from Batman Year One would be perfect. Also Lorgars’ opening skit should be the “Why do you disappoint me” rant from Master Shake in Aqua teen hunger force.
@@jonathanryan9946 Bobby G was lucky, but their fate were chaotic, literally. It was like she saw a possible terrible future and preferred to risk it by leaving their fates to "random" chance. Who knows, maybe this was the best outcome that could happen.
Horus is the first primarch found They do have a speciality in assault tactics it’s said that it would come to a indefinite standstill if they fought the imperial fist I am Alpharius and this is a lie
Yea They implied in this episode that it was because he was the first / the favorite that he became The warmaster but he legitimately was the best person for it. They didn't really go into detail about the strengths of each Primarch, like he really under sold Horus. Horus was incredibly charismatic and a military genius, being the war master was basically the role he was meant to fulfill.
@@evantheninja3Because Horus may have not been the first. If you believe a certain someone, there was a child that did not get flung far and landed basically just a few feet away from the Palace: Alpharius.
Interesting enough the opposite of what happens to salamander space marines occurs once one joins the raven guard. Because if you join the raven guard’s ranks your eyes become black as pitch and your skin like porcelain.
@ the Salamanders: The red eyes black-skin thing has been confirmed to be a result of the Salamander's home planet. Primaris successor chapters like the Dark Krakens do not bear those features. This also means that you can have black Ultramarines. It is what it is.
Its both. Space Marines have the ability for their skin to temporarily darken to a pitch black in response to high levels of radiation. The organ that does this in the Salamanders is defective, as once it turns on it never turns off. So the high levels of radiation of Nocturne trigger this mutation. The Ravenguard of the opposite problem with this same organ, causing them to gradually over time lose all color in their skin. So regardless of ethnicity, they end up having albino-like skin tones after a few decades.
I have slowly been making my way through this playthrough in a semi-random order, and I feel compelled to note that I appreciated Kari's Land Before Time/Warhammer 40k parody song snippets
One adendum; while the Black Legion they become is a jack of all trades, the Lunar Wolves/ Sons of Horus specialized in Assault, shock and awe, and general offensive tactics. Horus even mentioned that, if Dorn and him were on opposite sides of a siege, the battle would go on forever.
Honestly, I've only read the first 5 Horus Heresy books and I really think that's all you need to read. They're SO good and they perfectly set up exactly who the Mournival are, the big Chaos reveal, just how insanely strong Space Marines are, how Horus has his fall and how much he changes after they find out about Chaos, their first encounter with Nurgle/Nurglings.
That bit about names being suspiciously similar to what a character ends up doing is spot on. I genuinely believe Nominative Determinism is an active force in the 40K setting.
I so much loved Keri’s take on Erda and Big E at the beginning of this video. I see so few people talking about the deep psychological complexity of the relationships in 40k. And as someone really into that part of the lore I just loved finally having someone else dive into that aspect of it all.
29:22 - I could see Horus whole life being still in that pod, and Horus was in the pod his mind was still developing in a Matrix style world. When the Mechanicus showed up outside his pod it prompted him to develop a sense of self, thus he was already physically developed he just needed his mind to catch up.
the "I told your father to make you all sisters but he didn't listened to me" reminds me of a Malcom in the Middle episode, where Lois is tired of her four sons and imagine what it would be to have four daughters. And at first she thinks it would be so calm and enjoyable, but in the end, she remembers that women can be bitches too and she imagine her daughters always bickering, and in the end, neither gender is better ^^
My favorite part of the Lupercal's lore, is the fact that when he was appointed as the warmaster, he had a spell of imposter syndrome. He thought at the moment that his bff, Sanguinius, should had been given the title. 😬😅😔
The thing about Erda is a problem because in an attempt to make a dramatic story GW put the blame on one person. They painted a target on her back. It is the same with Magnus, Lorgar, Fulgrim, Erebus, Horus and the Emperor as well. They do horrible things, terribly misguided, believing they are doing the right thing until it is too late and everything is ruined. With Erda she did one thing with immense consequences, when compared to all the others that get hate she is too simple. 47:30 she is kinda right, the Gene-Seed does mutate with time, not only inheriting the traits of the Primarchs but developing new ones also. When it is removed from a living Space Marine through surgery or retrieved from a dead one, the Gene-Seed organs are analysed by the Adeptus Mechanicus to see if it is within an acceptable range of mutation before it can be sent to the Apothecary to make new Space Marines or to Mars for storage.
The issue with Erda is two-fold in my opinion. The first is a lore issue, Erda is very new lore, having only appeared in the lore in the later half of the Horus Heresy novels. She appears seemingly out of thin air, despite being massively important. Which to some people seems completely shoe-horned in. The second issue is a story issue, Erda is akin to a female Emperor. She is a perpetual, has been around nearly as long as Big E, is an incredibly powerful psyker like Big E, and is as knowledgeable as Big E. And, I like that she maintains more of her humanity, where Emps loses his, making a very interesting dynamic between the two. It seems like the authors were trying to set up Erda to be the conscience that is seemingly lost for The Emperor. The books don’t do a particularly good job of fleshing her out or making her character feel real. Also, her decision to toss her children in to the warp to save them from The Emperor does not make much sense. She is a powerful psyker, she knows the dangers of the warp and the Chaos Gods within the warp. She tells Erebus she wasn’t a pawn of the Chaos Gods when she scattered the Primarchs, but if she was fully in her right mind she would never have trusted the safety of her children to the screaming madness of the warp. It is very hard to reconcile her obvious maternal love of her children and fear of the monster the Emperor was becoming leading to a decision to trust Chaos, especially for a psyker, who is very familiar with the dangers of Chaos. Both issues could be mitigated with more and deeper lore for her, a book or two that details her life before and up to the yeeting of the primarchs into Hell.
There is also the matter that new lore stated that the original Generals and lieutenants to the Emperor weren’t the Primarchs but the perpetuals. But as time went on they left. They began to have second thoughts on Emps based on how he was. One by one the back out until only Erda and Malcador remained. This is what prompted the creation of the Primarchs. That alone tells a lot about Erda, because she stuck with him for only her and Emps know how long, and had *zero* problems with who he was. His motives, his methods, his actions, the trade offs, the Thunder Warriors in general, what happened to Astart, manipulating Mars, everything… and yet she wasn’t even phased by it. Yet The Primarchs were crossing the line. Make me think what was *truly* going on with Emps and their “kids” that made such a stupid short sighted decision to hand them over too Chaos?
On the bit where Kari compared the Gene Seed to One-For-All, the seed effectively records the life experience of the Marine it was in and makes it so that the marine who receives it will gain some traits from the previous user. An issue arrives where all that genetic information will sometimes snowball into degradation/mutation after several millennia. Similar to how insane OFA got for Deku after 8 users.
Theres the blood angels, dark angels, the raven guard, the blood ravens, etc... They really loved similar naming schemes. I'm reminded of the bit from Emperor had a text to speech where Dorn was regailing how his legion was broken up into smaller chapters, including "The crimson fists, the blood fists, the black templar, and my own successor Imperial Fists. "I'm surprised one of those doesn't have Fist in the name" "That is because they are all insane."
The Emperor's Memoirs, with the Emperor's personal dialogue all being voiced by Jennifer Coolidge, could possibly be one of the most needed projects in the world. At least for me.
GF: "Spiders can be Space Marines but I CAN'T?" That was... odly personnal... Well, can't blame her to be frustrated, i 've always dreamed to wear sororitas armor but i can't.
The Jim bit is hilarious to me as a Jim. I'm rather unlucky so it tracks for the joke. I have gamer tags both of my name and "not Jim" thanks for the kill name.
4:20 To be 100% honest I never looked at the Erda situation like this before (chiefly because I didn’t like Saturnine, the book she was introduced in, and was not paying it much attention or thought while reading, I don’t like Abnett), and now that you’ve said it, it makes so much more sense than it did. I didn’t/don’t hate Erda as much as I thought and still think that the whole Perpetual thing is a blight on 30k canon and has been since Legion, but yeah I regret kind of being an ass about this particular plot point before. So thank you, you did change my mind! You guys actually have so many genuinely fascinating 40k takes, I’m really glad I found this channel…
Horus is a Magical Girl... Welp, thats head-canon now. 1:06:10 Well, calling it "Horrible death-planet full of nightmare-spiders from the deepest darkest corners of hell, doom be upon any and all who dare tread here!" is a bit cumbersome...
the Luna Wolves despite being all rounders were really fond of being extremely aggressive because of the Cthonian... "warrior culture", space crack will do that do ya
Actually emperor's children were on murder before and they asked for Horus's help (and there's a low-key very gay moment between Locius and garo) And the interex talk with music so the warnings they put were like music sheets
Someone probably already mentioned that but Horus re-named his legion himself, after one of his guys betrayed him (I think on the moon of Darwin) so he renamed his guys after himself to nurture their loyalty to him This also happens after the Lair blade incident
So, there is an interesting theory I've heard about the planet Murder is that its one of the planets seeded with Tyranids (As there is a shocking number of worlds that appear to have Tyranids on them during the Great Crusade) and that the Spiders on that world evolved away from the hivemind and became their own thing. EDIT: Ohhhh my bug bois! Let's fucking go!
The horus got big suddenly thing. The primarchs are partially warp entities. Names have literal power. Maybe the naming ritual created a connection from his phyaical body to his warp body.
That is worse than ordinary animal-intelligence Megarachnids! Also, can we atop for a second and marvel at the inherent 'this is simultaneously incredibly stupid and completely brilliant' nature of the name 'Megarachnids'?
1:16:52 A thing to remember that although the primarch are of the emperor, they were not birthed they we grown in a tube with the emperors dna and erdas dna (i think i spelled that right) so when malcador said make them women, he wasnt saying for emps to use magic, he was say in tweek the dna, i dont know if that is coming across right, sorry if you understood, i just felt like that connection wasn't forming
The reason why they mentioned something about it "not being possible" is because for the longest time, people made the argument that the Primarchs are male because Emps was male, and it wasn't possible to change that. As the Custodes shows, Emps could have made the Primarchs female, but he specifically chose not to.
With the talk about magical girls, I guess He-Man fits the genre ... Anyway, 1:06:04 Murder was called that because an emergency transmission from it, from the Blood Angels I think, asking for help, ended with the guy saying "This planet is murder" and it was called that after the call.
Horus's legion, the luna wolves were master of assualt. It was said that if The luna wolves and Imperial fists were to fight it would be never ending standstill
Feels like True name magic but tbh 26:12 is an example of what i would call borderline in universe mythology. Horus is tbe only one who was essentially raised by him and was less a child of his home and more a child of the Emperor.
I know this is about warhammer, but hey, you like clone war Anakin? There is a book called Rogue Planet, which takes place between episode 1-2, so you can actually get a feeling for anakin as a kid learning to become a jedi, and get more of what's going on in his mind, instead of just on screen. Also a fun gay fight for admiral Tarkin on whether he's a top or a bottom with one of the other characters(it's not really in the book, but it's pretty implied.)
Mixing Blark and Son and 40k is currently my favorite thing in the world right now. The only inaccuracy is that the Emps would ever tell his son he love them.
I think the name part comes from some kind of chaos fuckery, like, if someone doesn't have a name, their connection to warp is limited as it works kinda like an IP and if have no IP you won't be able to connect. It also goes well with the theory that Primarchs were created using some warp technology and shit
the funny thing about emps is that even though horus seems like he is the fav, he also gave the lion ALL the nukes, was talking to magnus even before he was taken from his home and praised vulkan as the ideal of humanity, and lets not all forget the actual golden boy who everyone eve horus loved sanguinius he has his favs but some hint that he might of planned for horus to be the warmaster mostly cause horus would be the less bad but also not too bad that chaos would not take him emps is really a mystery
Check out our new merch! orchideight.com/collections/numb-skulls
I am a Nurgle boi
I've said it before and I'll keep saying it, simply knowing chaos exists is like a cognito-hazard is the SCP universe. An admittedly low level cognito-hazard, but it will still infect the mind and slowly spread. Subverting the will of the weak minded, and most people even with an education are in fact weak minded.
Finally... You'll learn about Horus Heresy himself, the wielder of the Warhammer 40,000
"Truly Horus, now you have become the Warhammer. In 40K." ~ Chaos Undivided
Finally I get an explanation for how this guy can carry forty-thousand warhammers at the same time
Why did The Emperor Jimmy Space trust Horus if his name was Heresy? Is he stupid?
Yo… you got the Warhammer 40.000 now man
Wait, hold on.
Talisment of Seven Hammers has the power to blowup Terra. And it only has seven hammers.
How much power does 40k hammers posses?
Horus: That sign can't stop me, because I can't read!
Also Horus: Ohmygod! SPIDERS!
HES JUST LIKE ME FOR REAL 😭
I think the problem with Erda is in alot of the context you guys don't know about. She is not the first or the last Perpetual to side with the Emp but she was around the longest. Alot of them came to the exact same issues and either pushed back or left. Erda aided and abetted the Emp for essentially tens of thousands of years. She understands the setting as well as he does.
Which is to say that she was functionally an enabler. Its hard to argue abuse because the Emp seemed to hold most Perpetuals at around his level and only killed ones that were willing to declare open war on him.
She was a willing participant in creating the Primarchs, and like the Emp, viewed them as toy soldiers (Perpetuals without pesky opinions). She does not phrase it as a sacrifice of her children to John, she phrases it as taking weapons away from the Emp.
So she functionally doomed half of her children to hell with about as much care as the Emp, if you use your standard.
With respect, I think the Emp is a monster but I think alot of folks refuse to hold others to the same standard. Case in point, Primarchs killing their own Astartes (their 'sons' hard wired to not be able to defend themselves from their 'fathers') out of hand for pretty petty reasons long before the Heresy.
Pert had his Legion decimated for failing to live up to his standards as his first command. And this man has the gall to complain about being underappreciated and the Lion punched the head off of a Chaplain for disagreeing with him.
louder for the people in the back
I mean those examples you gave of people refusing to hold others to the same standard are of two of the Primarch's people call dickhead shit dad's the most. I really don't see this broad double standard you say people apply to the Emperor vs everyone else. People talk as much shit about a lot of the Primarchs as they do on the Emperor. And the addition of Erda to the lore in general people dislike just because the explanation for how the Primarchs got flung into space was worse than just leaving it alone so she definitely doesn't really get much leniency either. Like I'm legit confused people constantly call Perturabo a shit awful dad along with Angron and plenty of others. The Emperor gets a lot of shit but he's also the impetus for all his children being genocidal warmongers to begin with so while he's sometimes a good dad (to the ones he likes) unlike Perturabo overall he's the figurehead guiding everything so yeah he's going to get more shit at the same time.
I guess the bit I take issue with is "she functionally doomed half her children." Yes, we know half of them fell to Chaos. The other half stayed on as the Emperor's weapons (putting aside the two Emps is implied to have just had killed). Ngl, it seems like /all/ of them were doomed in one way or another. The Emperor is, in his own way, just as much a twisting sounds-better-than-it-is force as Chaos.
@@jarrakul Worth noting I was referring to their upbringing. I disagree with your opinion because we have read Angron's mindstate as a Daemon Prince, it is pages of description about how much worse it is than he could have imagined (specifically that all his previous suffering is rendered meaningless). But most of them having terrible, abusive or otherwise traumatizing childhoods was my meaning.
Even a fairly okay one like Corax makes me think someone has never grasped how bad it would be to be a child in guerilla cell in a pitch black prison, if they think that isn't a horrific childhood.
Especially compared to Alpharius, if his childhood story in the Primarch book isnt a lie but who knows, who was raised by the Emp and has what seemed like a fairly decent upbringing. Tough but nowhere near even what Russ had to deal with.
@@jarrakul also feel like nobody really makes an argument to how Emps would be better. Is the flawed childhood outcome they got really worse?
"why did they name a planet murder? Lmao"
Well, as thet landed on the planet, the only radio message back was one Marine screaming "THIS PLANET IS MURDER!" So they named it Murder lmao
And that's historically accurate, we have many cases as such. The Yucatlán peninsula was named as such because when the spaniards asked the name of the place, the indigenous people replied with "i don't understand what you say" and they thought it was the name. Rivers named Avon (celtic for river) and the great desert desert (Sahara is translated as desert). So, yeah, people have a tendency to take on names because someone just said so lol
@@pablonunalvares5391Same for peru
My recollection is that Murder was named that because the fighting against the Megarachnids was so fierce that 'Murder' was the only adequate description for the world.
@@pablonunalvares5391 Canada, the french landed near an iroquois settlement, the chief said "that's my village", which in Iroquoian is called "Kanata" pronounced "Ganada", the french explorer thought "Okay, all this land is called Canada" XD
@@krankarvolund7771 I'll add this one to my repertoire lol
"You did it, Horus Heresy. You truly are the Warhammer 40,000."
My favorite joke answer for why the Emperor made all the primarchs men was he knew "the internet would not be able to control themselves with twenty 12ft tall buff amazonian demigods running around. The amount of horny would be out of control"
There was no such internet when they were invented
@@DjapeKostic It would force it's self back into existence just so people could be horny on it.
Considering the recent trend of female Primarchs on Reddit I don't blame you
Slaneesh seeing humanity's collective horny at the sight of female primarchs spawn a second chaos god of Lust: "Ayo what the fu-?"
@@DjapeKosticbro, is the Emperor, he knew the Future
Kari be like: BROTHER. GET THE THERAPIST.
THE HEAVY THERAPIST
So, names have power over warp entities, and primarchs are like 20% physical marvels of genetic enginering and 80% warp spagetty. I think, without a name Horus had no connection to his warp half, and thus was just a guy with good genetics without the nutrients to really grow. When he got the name, he suplimented that with warp stuff and instantly reached his intended physical state
That makes a surprising amount of sense.
Maybe he had all his warp power, but was subconsciously using it to suppress his own strength, because of how little he thought of himself?
I can’t believer he named his son Horus Heresy. Shoulda seen that one coming.
You forgot his middle name.
Never
All according to keikaku.
No one in 40k will ever recognize that nominative determinism absolutely exists in their universe
Horus is a magical girl....thank you for making me spit hot coffee all over my deck.
Bro this shit killed me, cardcaptor Lupercal
Big E the type of guy to be asked how he knows what's best for humanity and answer: "I'm what's best for humanity"
Why be humble, when you can be correct?
Something something Umberto Eco something something selective populism.
You're gonna tell me the guy who can see multiple futures at almost all times, is 13ft tall, literally glowing, knows they're surrounded on all sides by enemies constantly coming for you! Didn't have the time to properly unite humanity and basically said "its now or never!" was wrong... No, you can it is but not accurate, like literally people break down working at fast food because they deem it stressful, this man had to build a galactic empire or humanity fades into the night! but i'm also a death korp lover so I can be biased 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Erda's at fault for why 8 of the traitor Primarchs (minus Magnus) had such terrible upbringings, but she's also the reason why 8 of the remaining loyalists (minus the Lion) turned out better than if they had been with Big E the entire time. She's also the reason we have Guilli-mom, so it kinda balances itself out.
She is also the reason two of the 20 died.
@@storkyfallout6516 I thought those were found and were scrubbed from history for reasons unspecified?
@@ALJ9000 yeah but the fact that there were 20primarchs prior to the scrubbing gives a good indication that what ever happened wasn't specifically because they were primarchs, much like how Big E publicly humiliated Lorgar for expressly going against his wishes by making people believe he was a god, it's very possible that during the rongdong genocide their upbringing clashed with what the Emperor needed done in such a way that they had to be scrubbed..... In a more theory side of things they might of found out about chaos and not only didn't see it as a problem but full joined the rongdong.
What's worse then having one of your massive near demigod sons proclaim your a god, having two use Biomancy to make offshoot space Marines
@@ALJ9000pretty sure they killed each other
@@storkyfallout6516 I think your count is off. It's only 18.
Inquisitor...
Malcedor wanted 20 Dommy Mommies and Jim denied him.
DAMN YOU ONCE AGAIN JIMMY SPACE FOR DENYING US THE PRIMOMMIES! 😡
Malcador: "Hey big E, we should have some dommy mommy female Primarchs.
Emperor: *looks at Malcador's collection of M.3 muscle girl hentai*
Emperor: ಠ_ಠ
Erda isn't just "small", she's also pretty NEW.
I wholeheartedly believe that part of the hate against her is based on how her role in the scattering basically made her into a lynchpin, scapegoat, what-have-you. As opposed to how it was in the past: "for unknown reasons, these babies in their incubator pods were scattered throughout the galaxy".
I don't know her story, but I like to think that she was fooled, seeing the future and then causing it to happen through her own attempt to prevent it from happening, like when Horus saw the future.
People don't like her because she's a plot device, not a character. If you're going to strip away the mystery you need to do better than a bland plot device who makes poor decisions for terrible reasons.
@@mouseinthehouse_ Agreed.
Also, with the Chaos Gods already involved in the whole "fling the baby Primarchs into the Warp/space", why did there have to be yet another factor?
@TF2CrunchyFrog this is the real question I've been asking since her bit of lore came so long after first heretic. We were good to blame the word bearers for going back in time and making it possible for the warp to whisk them away and then it turned out to be erda? Why?
There's a point in the story where he even tells (I think it was) Malcador as he asked, "Why do they call you father?" And Emps remembers the story of Pinocchio and how Pinocchio called the man who created it father and equates it to the same thing
Yeah that was an interesting part of the story. It was in the Master of Mankind book, I think he was talking to Ra the custodian. I like when he describes how seeing the future is like climbing a cliff and you don’t know the right path but you can see the top.
Ohh that’s super interesting!!! Very fitting
Actually it is with a Adeptus Mechanicus member in - if I'm not mistaken - "Master Of Mankind" novel.
@@Aberinkula9it wasn't just any mechanicus member. It was Arkhan Land, inventor of the Land Raider
Yes, it was Arkhan Land.
And the whole point of that book is that everyone sees and perceives the Emperor differently. Because he actively uses his powers to enforce the version of himself they expect to ensure they are as devoted and loyal as possible.
Arkhan Land expected the human avatar of the Machine God. Emotionless, Monotone, utterly removed from human compassion. And that's how the Emperor appeared to him. But to the Custodes he was basically this philosopher warrior king prone to navel gazing and grand Socratic statements. Its because Big E is always putting on an illusion to better achieve his ends.
Everyone takes the "Oh he doesn't care for his sons" statement as literal truth, when the very same book contradicts it.
There's also the weirdness where the Emperor speaks weirdly, where the idea takes on the words the recipient wants to hear. Hence why he speaks so coldly with that AdMech guy but is the exact opposite to Best Boi Sanguinius.
He is such an immensly powerful psyker that he appears to everyone how it best suits them. To Fulgrim every of his words is a poem, to Guilliman he is almost sterile matter of fact, to Vulkan he is an honourful competitor. One story implied he was just an average looking guy, but that too could just come from the character who saw him. It is even questionable to what degree he can control that ability.
Partway through, I'll just drop this here because I'm listening while getting ready for work. Erda's choice to fling the children out through the stars had a damning effect because of how ABUSED some of the Primarchs were. Lorgar, Angron, Mortarion, f**cking Conrad Kurze for crying out loud. These characters had a potential for greatness and nobility that was stripped of them by the abuse and mental damage they suffered in their youths (although Angron still had a great deal of his nobility present during his time as a slave, it is Emps direct actions that made him absolutely bitter and hateful to his 'Father' and his Legion).
However, I doubt that we would have had the good men we DID get if Erda hadn't, 20 sons raised and trained by Emps would have lost those unique experiences Guilliman, Vulkan, Leman, and the Khan had that made them exceptional....or in Leman's case, the wild man. 20 sons under Emps may not have fallen to Chaos. But they definitely would have still rebelled eventually with how Big E didn't ever see them as anything but tools.
Damned if she did, damned if she didn't.
To be fair, Omegon, formerly Alpharius, turned out fine and he was found almost immediately.
@@InvisibleYogurt Fine is being very charitable when he's literally a spymaster and master assassin and plunges worlds into poverty disarray and anarchy and is also a smug dick. Not the worst of the Primarchs but definitely not "fine" lmao
Independently of what happened to the primarchs, the Emperor jumpstarting the Great Crusade to reunite with his sons / getting his most valuable tools back had even worse effects on humanity itself since a) he only haphazardly resolved the relationship with the Mechanicum, b) he still had to resolve some vital technological problems (human webway) and c) he appearantly had not yet made many preparations for the transition to a civilian government. All of which would come to bite them in the rear during the Horus Heresy.
Of course, she could not know how relatively easily the Emperor would find the Primarchs in the immense vastness of space. For all she knew the conquests would have to eventually fail without the Emperor's greatest generals, sparing humanity the iron fist of his rule and giving their sons a chance to a live unburdened by his ambitions. But that is not how things go in WH40k.
@@InvisibleYogurt As the other guy noted: Omegon/Alpharius (whichever one it really was) is also a pathological liar and basically admitted his whole book's truthfulness was even in question. That is far from a good definition of 'fine'. XD
@Nickname-ef9tv Yeah, in the book that wrapped up her story, someone tried to blame her, and I believe her response was, "He didnt have to go looking for them. I thought he would've stopped."
And she talked about them with a weird tone, like she considered them as both a piece of her and weapons of destruction
"In the name of the moon, I will punish you!" ~Horus, probably
In the name of the Luna Wolves 🌙🐺
@@KarilynneDavies I mean, Luna is its name.
He is THE Sailor Moon, no way….
Geneseed, to clarify, are the organs implanted to make a space marine. There are roughly around… 18(?) of them? But when they want to extract geneseed from a dead marine, theyre actually just extracting one of those organs, the progenoid gland, which is basically what produces the bacteria, dna, germs or whatever to make the new organs work!
Horus was one of the only primarchs who wanted his men educated and cultured because he believed one day war would end and his immortal sons would need to be suited for a galaxy at peace.
Sanguinis, Robute, arguably Vulkan but I might be biased.
I can totally see the motives for them getting an education being unique, though.
gman too
Actually there's a decent chunk of them like that. The Khan, Roboute, Sanginius, Fulgrim, Magnus, Vulkan to a degree, and arguably Lorgar too with teaching them to be scribes, missionaries, and philosophers.
To be fair they didn't all do it because hey you need to be ready for peacetime but in regards to teaching and encouraging their sons to branch out beyond just being tools of war I think they all count.
@@Pragabond Khan was gobsmacked by suddenly being at peace after he had conquered his planet and he had no idea what to do with his armies or just himself. Before he could resolve this the Emperor arrived and he could once more fullfill the only purpose he knew.
magnus was all into education and having his men learn ways to help the common people
most of the main surgeons on prospero where marines and magnus made the best wine in the galaxy
its just that the legion that was made to be psychic on a planet full of psychers and not told about the dangers of the warp did things using the things they knew
Sure, Horus was the first Primarch to be found, but there was one who got only half lost.
I am Alpharius and I still approve this message.
I am alpharius and you are lying
I am Alpharius and all y'alls is lying
Hi there, I'm Alpharius and you guys are saying the truth.
I'm Alpharius this is the truth ... this is a lie
I am Alpharius and I disapprove of this message.
so i might be remembering this wrong, but i think they called the planet "Murder" because they sent down a group of space marines, and all that came back was a transmission with the sounds of screaming and the words of the last survivor were "This planet is murder!"
First name Horus last name Heresy?
Like exterminatus he ain't nothing to play with?
Horus A Heresy, son of Jimmy A Space.
Wielder of the Warhammer 40,000
Shout out to Kari for making a TTS reference towards the end
I’m a real Warhammer fan now guys!!! I did it!!! 🍊
@@KarilynneDavies You are Jane Warhammer
@@Maxisamo1 I believe you mean Jane Workshop
Omg, Kari, your psychological breakdown of family structure and abuse explains both life and 40k. You are soooo insightful. I love it. Go Kari.
The name Mournival for the counsel actually comes from an old word for 4 of a kind in card games, thus there always being 4 members
What makes the Emperor being a tyrant/savior thing and basically being "trust me I am right it's better if no one else knows" a more interesting dynamic is the fact that he was right. Knowledge of the chaos gods and chaos in general strenghtens it, makes it real, gives it purchase in real space. So keeping it all a secret was actually the best way, but it all went wrong.
The real real problem is that he didn't have a suitable back plan. His main plan was the Web Way and that was it.
And now merely as an opinion, he should have carefully talked about Chaos with some of his more reasonable Primarchs, not all of them of course.
@@Aberinkula9 trust issues all around
Precisely! And there is also the matter that telling certain Primarchs like Lorgar and Magnus the truth either would have only, or could have caused far more harm than good. Magnus is far too arrogant and reckless and Lorgar needs no explanation.
Not to mention that Sanguinius nearly fell to chaos to save his sons from the red thirst, Fulgrim had his nature and body corrupted by a Deamon sword, and Mortarion fell to Nurgle to save his sons. And they didn’t even know what Chaos was.
To say nothing of some people like Argel Tal, Perturabo and the Night Lords. Argel became horrified with what happened to him and the legion after joining Chaos, only sticking with it because his geneseed makes it nearly impossible to disobey Lorgar. Curze and the night lords hated Chaos, seeing it as weak and pathetic, ironic coming from them. And Perturabo and his sons are non religious pragmatists that actively look down on Chaos and treat is as a tool. They use deamon engines as cannon fodder for crying out loud.
Heck Lorgar of all people was disgusted and horrified by Daemon possessed soldiers and the Nurgle zombies because the people’s bodies, living or dead, were just flesh puppets. Where his Gal Vorback like Argel, the Deamon Primarchs, or champions like Kharn and Typhus, were “human and Daemon as one”. At least in his eyes they were.
About that name thing. “Nominative determinism is the hypothesis that people tend to gravitate towards areas of work that fit their names.”
My name’s root is Little King.
My family name is spellcaster, I am not yet a spellcaster
Sorry if you mention any of this later on but I've gotta comment it before i completely forget. There's a line in one of the Horus Heresy books where Horus is talking in the accent if the part of Cathonia where he APARRENTLY grew up and the marine he's talking to who WAS born there comments on how there are subtle tells that make him think that maybe Horus didn't REALY grow up there. My theory is that maybe not ALL of the Primarchs were scattered, or at least maybe not scattered to where they're claimed to have been scattered to.
Just like to point out that the reason most fans hate Erda isn't because she's a woman or the mother of the primarchs, it's because she's a retcon. For years, there was no question of who the players were that were involved in the creation of the primarchs, and then suddenly GW shoehorned this new character that changes everything, and it became slightly infuriating for fans because it wasn't the first time stuff like this happened to the lore. It'd be like if Disney changed the lore between TESB and ROTJ and added a new character who was the actual person who trained Luke to become a jedi and not Yoda. It's really just unnecessary and infuriating. Whatever comments you guys read that hate her specifically because she's a woman, I suggest you ignore them because chances are those are made by people who are new to the franchise, and because 40K is becoming popular, they're using it as a battlefield for their culture war. I love that I discovered your channel and just felt like I needed to throw in my opinion on this, and I hope you guys keep up the series.
Totally appreciate your input! I know most fans are wonderful, and as we talked about it totally makes sense to not like her for many many reasons. It’s a lot to do with the words used (some weirdly out of pocket sexist vocab) that made it feel worth mentioning. And again, this has been very much the minority. From what I’m learning it seems like most of warhammer is retconned in various ways so it gets a bit confusing. But I think that’s also one of the awesome things about it! There’s so much - more than enough for everyone to find things that they like. I’m loving learning more and more, and I’m glad you’re enjoying it too!! 🥰
@@KarilynneDavies you should've added to the video that it's believed that everything that's happened so far in the lore is exactly what The Big E wanted to happen. To elaborate, in one of the novels, I can't remember which Konrad and Sanguinius are fighting, and Konrad points out how they are both able to see into the future, which begs the question: if both are able to see into the future in so far as Sanguinius being able to foresee his own death, how much further into the future was The Big E able to see? This may also explain why he didn't kill Erda, because that was exactly what he wanted to happen. It's also kind of interesting how each primarch was already perfectly adaptable to the environment of the worlds they landed on and how he treated the primarchs that would be loyal to him significantly better than the ones who would turn traitor.
So far I have found that the only franchise that pulls off retcons with any degree of competency is Battletech. Cheesy cartoon in the 1990s has a story conflicting with a lot of the established lore? It is now an in-universe children's show meant as anti-Clan propaganda, problem solved. Remember those mercenaries that showed up mysteriously and fought for every major faction against every faction? They were an advanced scouting force for the Clans this entire time, but they went native and are going to help against the Clan Invasion.
That thumbnail just suddenly made me think Bill Burr as Horus and now I cannot stop imagining it.
Corvus Corax had some serious issues with Horus. Horus didn't let Corax use his feint-based strategies in a major battle (Battle of Gate Fourty-Two) and forced Corax to waste thousands of marines in a frontal assault on a fortified position. Horus had the Iron Warriors (siege specialists), Space Wolves (assault), and Luna Wolves (assault), but chose the Raven Guard (guerilla warfare specialists) to charge at a fortress.
The reason why they call the planet Murder is because the last transmission a group of space marines sent back to their ship was “This planet is murder.”
DONT SPIDER LAND PLANET
When you do Konrad Curze, having the opening skit just be the “From this moment on, *none* of you are safe” speech from Batman Year One would be perfect.
Also Lorgars’ opening skit should be the “Why do you disappoint me” rant from Master Shake in Aqua teen hunger force.
I mean for Erda's choice... it went nearly perfectly for Roboute Guilliman, not so much for most of the rest of her sons
By that logic, it would have been even more perfect had Guilliman been able to take charge of Imperium's logistics from the beginning.
@@ShinigamiSamaH I don't see how, I'm referring to the world and life Erda exiled him to. Not his life once Big E found him again.
@@jonathanryan9946 Bobby G was lucky, but their fate were chaotic, literally. It was like she saw a possible terrible future and preferred to risk it by leaving their fates to "random" chance. Who knows, maybe this was the best outcome that could happen.
5% success rate is still a success rate
Horus is the first primarch found
They do have a speciality in assault tactics it’s said that it would come to a indefinite standstill if they fought the imperial fist
I am Alpharius and this is a lie
Y did u hafta put the alpharius part in? The rest is true tho
Yea They implied in this episode that it was because he was the first / the favorite that he became The warmaster but he legitimately was the best person for it. They didn't really go into detail about the strengths of each Primarch, like he really under sold Horus. Horus was incredibly charismatic and a military genius, being the war master was basically the role he was meant to fulfill.
@@evantheninja3Because Horus may have not been the first. If you believe a certain someone, there was a child that did not get flung far and landed basically just a few feet away from the Palace: Alpharius.
@@King_Minos64 no i mean y did he hafta meme instead of just saying alpharius believes otherwise
Interesting enough the opposite of what happens to salamander space marines occurs once one joins the raven guard. Because if you join the raven guard’s ranks your eyes become black as pitch and your skin like porcelain.
I do that when I forget to eat for a while
@ the Salamanders: The red eyes black-skin thing has been confirmed to be a result of the Salamander's home planet. Primaris successor chapters like the Dark Krakens do not bear those features. This also means that you can have black Ultramarines. It is what it is.
Its both. Space Marines have the ability for their skin to temporarily darken to a pitch black in response to high levels of radiation. The organ that does this in the Salamanders is defective, as once it turns on it never turns off. So the high levels of radiation of Nocturne trigger this mutation.
The Ravenguard of the opposite problem with this same organ, causing them to gradually over time lose all color in their skin. So regardless of ethnicity, they end up having albino-like skin tones after a few decades.
I have slowly been making my way through this playthrough in a semi-random order, and I feel compelled to note that I appreciated Kari's Land Before Time/Warhammer 40k parody song snippets
I hope you guys enjoy hearing all about Harris from the Horusy as much as I did 🧡
The Horussy.
horsey harrison
Hol Horus Horse Heresy
The HorSUS HerSUSy
Lucas Harris
One adendum; while the Black Legion they become is a jack of all trades, the Lunar Wolves/ Sons of Horus specialized in Assault, shock and awe, and general offensive tactics. Horus even mentioned that, if Dorn and him were on opposite sides of a siege, the battle would go on forever.
Honestly, I've only read the first 5 Horus Heresy books and I really think that's all you need to read. They're SO good and they perfectly set up exactly who the Mournival are, the big Chaos reveal, just how insanely strong Space Marines are, how Horus has his fall and how much he changes after they find out about Chaos, their first encounter with Nurgle/Nurglings.
One day we'll hear about a war on a planet called Party Beach, instead of Murder or Armageddon
I mean, the "Pacific War" between Japan and the USA literally translates as "Peaceful War".
And finally, the planet that combines both... Florida!
Now I want Party Beach to be like the most deadly planet
That bit about names being suspiciously similar to what a character ends up doing is spot on. I genuinely believe Nominative Determinism is an active force in the 40K setting.
It has to be, the Ork exist
I so much loved Keri’s take on Erda and Big E at the beginning of this video. I see so few people talking about the deep psychological complexity of the relationships in 40k. And as someone really into that part of the lore I just loved finally having someone else dive into that aspect of it all.
honestly, these new shirts are some of the first youtuber merch I would ever consider actually wearing
Ngl was expecting the “little shit” Blark and Son meme but this is still good
29:22 - I could see Horus whole life being still in that pod, and Horus was in the pod his mind was still developing in a Matrix style world. When the Mechanicus showed up outside his pod it prompted him to develop a sense of self, thus he was already physically developed he just needed his mind to catch up.
the "I told your father to make you all sisters but he didn't listened to me" reminds me of a Malcom in the Middle episode, where Lois is tired of her four sons and imagine what it would be to have four daughters. And at first she thinks it would be so calm and enjoyable, but in the end, she remembers that women can be bitches too and she imagine her daughters always bickering, and in the end, neither gender is better ^^
Emps didn't want the primarchs to be women, because he didn't know how cool the sisters of battle would be
His name gave him identity, like demons and true names his true name gave him his magic sailor moon transformation.
My favorite part of the Lupercal's lore, is the fact that when he was appointed as the warmaster, he had a spell of imposter syndrome. He thought at the moment that his bff, Sanguinius, should had been given the title. 😬😅😔
The thing about Erda is a problem because in an attempt to make a dramatic story GW put the blame on one person. They painted a target on her back.
It is the same with Magnus, Lorgar, Fulgrim, Erebus, Horus and the Emperor as well. They do horrible things, terribly misguided, believing they are doing the right thing until it is too late and everything is ruined. With Erda she did one thing with immense consequences, when compared to all the others that get hate she is too simple.
47:30 she is kinda right, the Gene-Seed does mutate with time, not only inheriting the traits of the Primarchs but developing new ones also. When it is removed from a living Space Marine through surgery or retrieved from a dead one, the Gene-Seed organs are analysed by the Adeptus Mechanicus to see if it is within an acceptable range of mutation before it can be sent to the Apothecary to make new Space Marines or to Mars for storage.
Emperor: You’re no son of mine!
Horus: I have always been your son.
writ small.
They called planet Murder, because one of marines fighting spiders was like "This planet is literal MURDER"...
Making Konrad shinji is just so perfect.
The issue with Erda is two-fold in my opinion. The first is a lore issue, Erda is very new lore, having only appeared in the lore in the later half of the Horus Heresy novels. She appears seemingly out of thin air, despite being massively important. Which to some people seems completely shoe-horned in.
The second issue is a story issue, Erda is akin to a female Emperor. She is a perpetual, has been around nearly as long as Big E, is an incredibly powerful psyker like Big E, and is as knowledgeable as Big E. And, I like that she maintains more of her humanity, where Emps loses his, making a very interesting dynamic between the two. It seems like the authors were trying to set up Erda to be the conscience that is seemingly lost for The Emperor. The books don’t do a particularly good job of fleshing her out or making her character feel real.
Also, her decision to toss her children in to the warp to save them from The Emperor does not make much sense. She is a powerful psyker, she knows the dangers of the warp and the Chaos Gods within the warp. She tells Erebus she wasn’t a pawn of the Chaos Gods when she scattered the Primarchs, but if she was fully in her right mind she would never have trusted the safety of her children to the screaming madness of the warp. It is very hard to reconcile her obvious maternal love of her children and fear of the monster the Emperor was becoming leading to a decision to trust Chaos, especially for a psyker, who is very familiar with the dangers of Chaos.
Both issues could be mitigated with more and deeper lore for her, a book or two that details her life before and up to the yeeting of the primarchs into Hell.
There is also the matter that new lore stated that the original Generals and lieutenants to the Emperor weren’t the Primarchs but the perpetuals. But as time went on they left. They began to have second thoughts on Emps based on how he was. One by one the back out until only Erda and Malcador remained. This is what prompted the creation of the Primarchs. That alone tells a lot about Erda, because she stuck with him for only her and Emps know how long, and had *zero* problems with who he was. His motives, his methods, his actions, the trade offs, the Thunder Warriors in general, what happened to Astart, manipulating Mars, everything… and yet she wasn’t even phased by it. Yet The Primarchs were crossing the line. Make me think what was *truly* going on with Emps and their “kids” that made such a stupid short sighted decision to hand them over too Chaos?
22:00 this entire section makes me convinced that Ava should be a DM.
Yes
On the bit where Kari compared the Gene Seed to One-For-All, the seed effectively records the life experience of the Marine it was in and makes it so that the marine who receives it will gain some traits from the previous user. An issue arrives where all that genetic information will sometimes snowball into degradation/mutation after several millennia. Similar to how insane OFA got for Deku after 8 users.
*curze is in the shinji chair*
Erda, Emps and Malcador are the most blursed polycule, with the Mournival in second place 😁
I like that retro Adeptus Ridiculous opening.
i was not expecting casual The Land Before Time references
Theres the blood angels, dark angels, the raven guard, the blood ravens, etc...
They really loved similar naming schemes.
I'm reminded of the bit from Emperor had a text to speech where Dorn was regailing how his legion was broken up into smaller chapters, including "The crimson fists, the blood fists, the black templar, and my own successor Imperial Fists.
"I'm surprised one of those doesn't have Fist in the name"
"That is because they are all insane."
The Emperor's Memoirs, with the Emperor's personal dialogue all being voiced by Jennifer Coolidge, could possibly be one of the most needed projects in the world. At least for me.
Other Primearchs: it should've been me
Horus; .......... it's gonna be may
GF: "Spiders can be Space Marines but I CAN'T?"
That was... odly personnal...
Well, can't blame her to be frustrated, i 've always dreamed to wear sororitas armor but i can't.
Well one of the soul drinkers becomes a spider
Mournival is what coffin dancers are doing?
This reminds me why im a chaos supporter most of the time, since im certain he purposefully established the heresy
The Jim bit is hilarious to me as a Jim. I'm rather unlucky so it tracks for the joke. I have gamer tags both of my name and "not Jim" thanks for the kill name.
4:20 To be 100% honest I never looked at the Erda situation like this before (chiefly because I didn’t like Saturnine, the book she was introduced in, and was not paying it much attention or thought while reading, I don’t like Abnett), and now that you’ve said it, it makes so much more sense than it did. I didn’t/don’t hate Erda as much as I thought and still think that the whole Perpetual thing is a blight on 30k canon and has been since Legion, but yeah I regret kind of being an ass about this particular plot point before. So thank you, you did change my mind!
You guys actually have so many genuinely fascinating 40k takes, I’m really glad I found this channel…
Horus is a Magical Girl...
Welp, thats head-canon now.
1:06:10
Well, calling it "Horrible death-planet full of nightmare-spiders from the deepest darkest corners of hell, doom be upon any and all who dare tread here!" is a bit cumbersome...
the Luna Wolves despite being all rounders were really fond of being extremely aggressive because of the Cthonian... "warrior culture", space crack will do that do ya
They arent all rounders tho, they r the best in assault
Let it be known the planet broke before the guard. "CADIA STANDS!!"
Actually emperor's children were on murder before and they asked for Horus's help (and there's a low-key very gay moment between Locius and garo)
And the interex talk with music so the warnings they put were like music sheets
Kari, Ava? I am so sorry. All this time, I have thought that your store website was "Ork A Date" instead of "Orchid Eight," until today.
Lmao 😂 That's a VERY Diffrent kinda website! 😂😂
To be fair its Bricky's site, not ours
Someone probably already mentioned that but Horus re-named his legion himself, after one of his guys betrayed him (I think on the moon of Darwin) so he renamed his guys after himself to nurture their loyalty to him
This also happens after the Lair blade incident
This also makes it pretty cool when a few loyalist sons of Horus name themselves lunar wolves to distance themselves from their primarch
@@UnhingedcheeseShout out to Torgadden, Garviel Loken and Iacton Qruze, true Luna Wolves.
The interex are more than just one species, its a collective of multiple species its really cool
So, there is an interesting theory I've heard about the planet Murder is that its one of the planets seeded with Tyranids (As there is a shocking number of worlds that appear to have Tyranids on them during the Great Crusade) and that the Spiders on that world evolved away from the hivemind and became their own thing.
EDIT: Ohhhh my bug bois! Let's fucking go!
“I personally wouldn’t throw my kids into space”
-Ava
1:17:30
Geneseed relys on testosterone specifically to survive the operation/metamorphosis into a space marine.
The horus got big suddenly thing. The primarchs are partially warp entities. Names have literal power. Maybe the naming ritual created a connection from his phyaical body to his warp body.
Giving something a name gives that thing power and in the case of a Primarch, a lot
The megarachnids on Murder were super-intelligent too! Like had weather control devices intelligent.
That is worse than ordinary animal-intelligence Megarachnids!
Also, can we atop for a second and marvel at the inherent 'this is simultaneously incredibly stupid and completely brilliant' nature of the name 'Megarachnids'?
1:16:52 A thing to remember that although the primarch are of the emperor, they were not birthed they we grown in a tube with the emperors dna and erdas dna (i think i spelled that right) so when malcador said make them women, he wasnt saying for emps to use magic, he was say in tweek the dna, i dont know if that is coming across right, sorry if you understood, i just felt like that connection wasn't forming
The reason why they mentioned something about it "not being possible" is because for the longest time, people made the argument that the Primarchs are male because Emps was male, and it wasn't possible to change that.
As the Custodes shows, Emps could have made the Primarchs female, but he specifically chose not to.
And like, he grew then in a lab tailor making their DNA. It would have been super easy to just change the Y chromosomes to two X chromosomes.
With the talk about magical girls, I guess He-Man fits the genre ...
Anyway, 1:06:04 Murder was called that because an emergency transmission from it, from the Blood Angels I think, asking for help, ended with the guy saying "This planet is murder" and it was called that after the call.
It's crazy to think how much and how often the lore has changed, surprisingly little of this lines up with the books I've read
In the early days of 40k they weren’t even primarchs, just generals and leaders.
Ah, those were the days... 😝
Just “normal” dudes
"OH MY GOD, THE DRAMA!!!" should be the tagline for all of Warhammer.
Please let the next Primarch be a Loyalist...*cough cough* Lion El'Jonson.
13:35
Aw yes, my boy, Sangi-
"Horus LUPERCAL"
... I know understand the Black Rage....
Horus's legion, the luna wolves were master of assualt. It was said that if The luna wolves and Imperial fists were to fight it would be never ending standstill
Feels like True name magic but tbh 26:12 is an example of what i would call borderline in universe mythology. Horus is tbe only one who was essentially raised by him and was less a child of his home and more a child of the Emperor.
I know this is about warhammer, but hey, you like clone war Anakin? There is a book called Rogue Planet, which takes place between episode 1-2, so you can actually get a feeling for anakin as a kid learning to become a jedi, and get more of what's going on in his mind, instead of just on screen. Also a fun gay fight for admiral Tarkin on whether he's a top or a bottom with one of the other characters(it's not really in the book, but it's pretty implied.)
Mixing Blark and Son and 40k is currently my favorite thing in the world right now. The only inaccuracy is that the Emps would ever tell his son he love them.
I think the name part comes from some kind of chaos fuckery, like, if someone doesn't have a name, their connection to warp is limited as it works kinda like an IP and if have no IP you won't be able to connect. It also goes well with the theory that Primarchs were created using some warp technology and shit
“So when was [human history] actually great?”
So that’s the _thing_ about Fascism…
Say what you will about the primarchs scattering. Theres no debating that Angron would have had such a better life.
I love the way you guys go about this, keep up the good work c:
the funny thing about emps is that even though horus seems like he is the fav, he also gave the lion ALL the nukes, was talking to magnus even before he was taken from his home
and praised vulkan as the ideal of humanity, and lets not all forget the actual golden boy who everyone eve horus loved sanguinius
he has his favs but some hint that he might of planned for horus to be the warmaster mostly cause horus would be the less bad but also not too bad that chaos would not take him
emps is really a mystery