GT63E Review: Are Heavy Hybrids destined to Suck? (+ New M5!)
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- Опубліковано 19 гру 2023
- The GT63 S E Performance video is sponsored by G2A! Check out their Xmas Calendar Deals! www.g2a.com/xmas-sale
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The HEAVY Hybrids are coming! And we are all dreading them, because adding more weight has only made things worse.
The #AMG GT 63 is probably the best car to discuss this around, as it’s one of the few new performance cars out there with a pure combustion version, and a new-age hybrid version!
The standard car is already 635BHP, and conquered the Nurburgring with a 7.27 time making it the fastest 4 seat car on the ring. Not a car anyone thought “this could use more power”! Yet, more power is exactly what we have, check these figures:
843BHP
1470NM of torque
0-60 of 2.9 seconds
Insane!! But so is the added weight of 300kg, making the e-performance is 2380KG. To create that more power, the P3 #Hybrid system is added to the #MercedesAMG GT. This features the Electric Drive Unit or EDU - a super clever unit that houses the E-Motor, a 2 speed transmission and finally a more familiar limited slip differential.
Power is managed in a totally variable way, meaning both ICE and Electrical power can be sent to any wheel as required. In this set up, the EDU operates independently of the transmission. All this is powered by the AMG Performance battery which saw development begin in the AMG ONE hyper car F1. This is a 400VOLT battery, with 560 cells and can provide continuous power of 93BHP, Or 201 BHP at peak for 10 seconds.
The power with all this is the power to weight ratio - at full power it’s massive at 350HP per tonne, BUT, normally the E performance side only gives 91HP and thus drops the power to weight to 305. That’s Less than the normal GT63 at 310Hp per tonne! Not great for a £180K car, 300KG heavier.
It’s not all bleak, there are some hybrids out there doing it right, let the Cayenne Turbo E Hybrid that I recently drove! 729BHP, but also 70KM electric range! And not that much heavier than an X5M. AMG’s own S63 was much more impressive dynamically too, with active anti roll stabilisation making the car far more dynamic than the GT.
And in the near future comes the new G90 BMW M5, also due to be a V8 Hybrid like the XM. The new 5 series in ICE form weight 1800 KG, so we can guess the hybrid will add 3-400KG bringing this into a similar weight range to the GT. However the M5 is also rumoured to have a decent electric range, and one hopes given M’s love of handling - better dynamics.
Interesting times! Today I also drive the GT 63 E on UK roads to get to grips with the quirks of living with these hybrids, and discover just how good (awful) the MPG is! Let’s get to it! :)
Up next on RBR is the M3 CS First Drive and MUCH MUCH More!! Subscribe to support us and see them first. :)
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Fantastic video mate, so many valid points👌 Ive heard the G99 is over 2.5 tons meaning the G90 Sedan will be around the 2.5 tons... Sure we will find out soon! I find it so ironic that these poor top flight manufacturers and mind bending engineers have been forced into building these tanks in order to apparently help save our planet!?!?!
This guy likes to suck up to amg. BMW M5 is going to be way more dynamic than the gt63 e performance. That’s what BMWs are a notch above AMG!
And we know that how? @@kunalmore5212
@@kunalmore5212as far as sound goes, amg v8 all day everyday😅
@@DougC83 that I agree
@@kunalmore5212he is a lot more positive about bmw then he is about amg these days.. so thats not it
It’s actually disgusting how expensive some cars are getting, the weight is also disgusting
The world of performance cars is going in the wrong direction
What's weird is in the United States the prices, msrp, aren't huge changes over the years. Seem Europe is changing prices dramatically
Your right about the prices ford puma st 31k for 3 cylinder absolutely madness
mx5 nd2 bro the cure to all of this madness relativly affordable more then fast enough front engine rear wheel drive a mecanical lsd slick manual box 50-50 weight distribution high reving naturaly aspirated engine sub 2400 pounds weight trully the last of its kind.
I really like the GT63S E I just think it should've been way lighter. I know it's tough to do that, but if it was achieved it would've been a great feat.
It already exists and it's called GT 63S 4Matic+, but sadly isn't available on all the markets - you get the same vehicle without the hybrid crap
My problem with these companies is that they are so power focused with their cars now days they just seem to disregard every other aspect of the driving experience. As long as it has a big hp number to advertise I guess the car is perfect. Chassis is uncommunicative, steering is numb and heavy, sound is muted, weighs a house, but HEY we have a TON of horsepower. Once car companies start realizing horsepower isn’t as important as they make it out to be where they’re just chasing numbers, I feel like these systems will start to show its true benefits. The main focus on these hybrid systems should be its efficiency with power delivery and not its horsepower numbers, like a more efficient turbocharger. you hear stories about how these hybrid system put power down so sluggishly compared to a regular turbocharger and it makes you wonder what is even the point of these hybrid power plants if they can’t even improve on the tech we’ve had for over 30 years???. But at the same time I can’t blame them for doing such cause I guess the higher number is how modern day car enthusiasts gauge how much better one car is over the other.
Well said! This constant pursuit of figures that can never be used in any practical way when driving on the road is now really pointless. I like my car on so many levels but mostly because of where it takes me….how it feels as regards, ride, handling, steering feel, what it looks like, costs to run…THOSE matter…not a bonkers 0-60 which makes you feel ill and tears the car to bits plus wrecks the tyres. Raz describes the performance well but these cars are out of touch with why you buy, own and KEEP a car…..old dinosaurs fighting to stay alive.🤔🙂🙂
They aren’t enthusiasts 💯💯
Same reason everything must be an SUV now:
Because vulgar people buy that stuff.
"My car is bigger than yours! My car has more power than yours!" etc. etc.
And then they're being overtaken by someone in an Alpine A110 with 252hp
because that's a much lighter, better handling car.
If i want straight line speed, id be driving an ev
I agree, but the point arounud sound being muted is typically out of the manufacturers control. Now, some are better than others. AMG have done a great job dealing with OPF compared to recent BMWs (the M4 is silent compared). But without regulations, I'm sure they'd all be great.
Great topic of discussion Raz, I dint watch the entire AMG review as I have switched to an M5 last few years. My main concern is if you take a road trip in one of these Hybrids, after 2-3 hours of driving you will be out of juice, and a combustion engine with less power than the generation behind it, and the added weight? Then we have to charge it up again? I cant go through that....
Just came here to say thank you for putting so much effort into these videos. From the graphic renderings to the research… you’re in a class of your own.
I’m fatigued of the shouty, loud automotive UA-camrs with wrapped Lambos.
Really appreciate comments like this! Thank you! 😊🙏
RELIABILITY NIGHTMARE 💀
Buy a used one with the hybrid system dead. Take out the hybrid and get a cheap deal ❤
@@azzeeX problem is the non hybrid version isn’t reliable either 😂
@@MIXINGBOWLMANthe 4.0 v8 from amg is actually the most reliable comparing them to bmw/audi
Brilliant video Raz! Thank you for explaining the disadvantages with these powertrains.
Why did AMG bother with the plug in port? Who's going to bother plugging it in for 4-7 miles of EV range, just leave it as a self charging hybrid.
Totally agree!!
Homologation
You can preheat and cool the cabin and plugged in makes it better for that.
tax benefits are heavy all around the world for phev (as they are mostly considered electrics). Where I live, I've been waiting for the SL63E and the GT(2DR)E forever. Being electric gives you that green plate that comes with lots of tax benefits (most of the car becomes tax deductable for my business) and a big step up un QOL (reserved lanes that save 20min+ in traffic, reserved parking) and more.
I’m hoping and crossing my fingers the new M5 Competition comes out 99% like the render example
still wont look better than the f90
Perhaps this setup will be better in the GT 2 door version, as that will hopefully be 100kg lighter (if not more). Also I look forward to your review of the SL63 S E-Performance.
We are getting to watch a very interested business case study in progress. Mercedes is trying to direct their customers where they want the company togo, not where the customers want to go. I believe they would have known that the first iterations would get a level of pushback and that they'd have to push through it. How long their plan is, and how much pushback they can tolerate will be interesting to find out.
*Raz what's the crack with your garden extension thing , it's been under wraps for ages*
Wonder how good it is for the ICE when you start off in EV mode then suddenly switch to hybrid mode on a cold engine? Any thoughts?
Great video, that new M5 is going to be a beast! Can’t wait until the actual launch.
Porsche's hybrid which will require no charging seems to be the best idea in their upcoming 994 911s(if it happens that soon). Having to charge and put petrol in your car seems silly to me. The 992 NA GT3/GT3 RS/GT4/GT4 RS is peak Porsche for me, despite the inevitable performance gains coming with Hybrids and EVs.
Good stuff
What’s up with all this massive HP numbers and torque these days. You wonder what cars in 5-10 years will be….2000hp 0-60 in 1 sec? And then what. We will soon have jet engines and fly on the roads.?
Tesla wanted to put jet thrusters on the new roadster, so not that far off. We're going to see cars lift off the ground on highways ahhaha
Hybrid yes but plug in Hybrid is absolutely pointless.
Imagine owning this out of warranty😭💀
Mercedes not really known for problems. M177 is great and e drive trains aren't problematic. Wonder about the air suspension though with all the weight
That wont cost you more than the depreciation when owning a new one.
@@timonxDlol spot on
Does it charge while you drive? Why don't they use CCS2 type plug?
Subscribed! I really like the way you present your content, even though women in Canada, and some of these cars and their configurations may not exist here (all of them I can’t afford anyway, lol). I like the idea EVs, but I think hybrids are really the future. The combination in supercars really emphasizes the marriage of both worlds, it’s something like the new Prius emphasizes the marriages in both worlds as well. Of course, something like me is driving a 2022 Toyota 4Runner neither high-level, speed, performance, or average acceleration performance, with good gas mileage. I focus on the smiles per gallon 😊
well at least the non e performance is still available
Great work, your 2024 M5 render…❤️❤️❤️❤️🤣😂🤣😂! Fingers are crossed!
Genuine question, do they actually sell many of these? I can’t think who is paying more money for more weight and less mpg. Does AMG 4 doors sell more / less than M 4 doors? Feel like I see less on the road but maybe I just notice them less.
If the engine can charge the battery, why have the plug?
Just a complete was of time and engineering for this hybrid stage of the car evolution. Just build gasoline only cars until the idiots in charge make you stop, it's that simple.
You don't think the torque profile and traction of an EV combined with the sound and refuelable nature of an ICE is a good combination?
@@jamescartier8728 Nope, not really. Just adding unnecessary complexity.
Great video, just not sure who will buy at the cost this is like all hybrid and electric, I don’t see the point.
The AMG P3 system seems unnecessarily heavy: does it REALLY need an extra gearbox and F1 battery cells w/no EV range??
How much could be saved with regular batteries and EV motor attached to the primary transmission?
It makes no sense
Awesome video.. and at a technical angle everyone has seemingly ignored... 5:10 I think for the most part it is a big con full power for less than 10 seconds is a joke.. and the extra weight that's there permanently for the most part it just ends up being a glorified battery carrier... which would make it wear out its consumables faster.. only upside would be the lesser tax .. due to the hybrid... but all things considered your better of with the non hybrid and a stage 2 tune with the merc... those engines are good for 1000hp easily.... and yh god help the poor sod who has to service the e performance in a few years...
The 10 seconds is not really relevant. In most cases there is no way to accelerate for more than 10 seconds full load before you arrive at a speed limit or a corner. And after a few seconds the full power is available again. I was driving with the P3 Powertrain several times in different sport scenarios and I’ve never met the 10s power limit
@arminfischer5777 autobahn... nurturing... vmax events.... a fair few places you can.. and in day to day driving the standard car would be just as quick
Yes
When can we see new Audi S8 review?
I got shocked the other day after seeing the weight of a W213 E300DE 4matic, it says 2119kg and i was like this can't be right! then i checked other ones and it was a huge shock
I know AMG won't do this, but imagine if they gave it an all carbon body, like McLaren, perhaps then they could offset the added weight whilst enabling the driver to benefit more from the added performance. Sure it would be even more expensive, but it's already crazy expensive anyway.
only 600'000 euros then
@@v12-s65 Oh my goodness, that much of a price jump? I guess not then.
@@DanielSadjadian carbon fibre is crazy expensive especially if you wanna make the whole bodywork and put it in production. Well 600 grand is a bit of an exaggeration, but wouldn't be surprised if the msrp went up from ~200 grand to 350-400
@@v12-s65400k definitely
isnt the xe project 8 the fastest four door on nurburgring？？？
weight is stupid and power crazy. Whats the point, the weight makes it unwieldy and all but cancels out all that power . Is this progress ??
I can assume only for emissions
@@Theworldsboroyep
This battery concept is the same as Porsche: when in the comfort mode the battery gets drained quickly because it’s trying to stay efficient as possible, which means using battery. However, when battery gets too low or you switch to sport or race mode, the ICE ramps up and charges the battery. This is why the mpg is so horrible in these so called “hybrid.” The ICE runs harder to keep the battery at certain level at all times and to keep fully charged when driving fast.
I don't get all of these hybrid/petrol Cross cars with all of this torque and horsepower. Yes they're fun if you are able to use them on a track but for the most of us who are daily-ing them we can only drive our cars 20 mph to 70 mph in the UK. They all seem pretty pointless. The cars are getting faster and faster as the world is slowing down.
Truly not a car guy comment
I hate the fact they are so heavy, not that much faster than the standard car yet cost so much more and you lose boot space too.
The speed limit is just a suggestion
Isn't it kph not mph in the uk? Just asking.
@@Typezero73it's mph. We're still in the 19th century.
In Germany do they give tax credits to plug in hybrids like they do in the states?
Jesus this thing is beyond beautiful
Do you miss your GT 4 door bruv?
As soon as the battery is low or dies all that you suddenly got a lot of dead weight affecting your driving fun.
So much extra complexity, cost, and weight for an marginal improvement in its 0-60 time vs it's ICE counterpart. Im sure it's worth it to some, but for me personally, that's not worth the tradeoff
اين الترجمة ❤
Why does every new MBZ look like it borrowed its grille from a 1950s Buick?
I AM TEMPTED!!!
Portland, JAMAICA in the Building!!! 👑🇯🇲🔥💥💥🌟⭐💯💎
Clever or overly complex and fragile?
I’ve got a 911 992 going to change in the spring..I’m going lighter..
IMO they could just drop the v8 and use the new i6 instead with the hybrids, sounds a lot better anyway.
a tesla model s plaid makes more power and is actully the lighter option which is crazy i think phev is not the way if you gonna go that deep into electrification might as well go for a full ev.
😂😂😂😂
15:25 I too have moaned about butt plugs……..
So much cheap plastics on such an expensive car?
That new BMW M2 is a great M3.
2380 kg is nothing eye-popping if you consider the battery-only Taycan being around that heavy.
lol why did you edit this car to become facelifted? at 10:24 you show it from the front and its the first facelift, for the rest of the video its the new facelift
why dont they just make a hybrid that isnt a plugin
None of these problems will be a worry to 99% of people who will never afford them
In the recent carwow test against the m5c the m5c has a better take off..
I think product manager and managers of mercedes they should understand their flagship fast sedan cars has to compete with electric cars. They can't just say yes we start to do hybrid as well as Lexus was doing 10 years ago. Anyway not my problem, it is their issue...
I mean this car does compare to electric cars pretty well.
@@wolfgangbarrio5043 flagship 4 door to flagship 4 doors. lucid air sapphire, tesla model s plaid are the competitors.
@@candas.minareci Sapphire isnt even on sale in Europe, and the Plaid has 200hp more. The Taycan isnt faster, just like no other EV is as fast as this Amg.
@@wolfgangbarrio5043 I disagree, mercedes sells in USA. In anyway my comment is about this S E platform of mercedes's didn't receive engineering importance. I don't think thats because of their engineering department, I believe this is most probably about business department.
@@candas.minareci I mean, i'm not into Hybrids as well, they should just make a more powerful ICE 63S, but then you couldnt sell the car with the green subsidies
You answered yourself in the title. Yes, sucktastic era has began at Mercedes. Such a shame. :(
The new M5 is srill going to come with a V8
This is exactly why I am keeping my '21 BMW M5 Comp; not sure about my next toy.
I wish they would make 2 door, and convertible variants of this beast, that could be perfect for me
U are always advertising for the dealer. An amg as nice to drive as a porsche and bmw M car, i hv doubts. Lol
Gt63s over the E all day
GT 63 S doing best 7:23 on Nordschleife
More like "minus new M5" 😂
Braking, Handling and the dynamics of the car are all ruined for straight line performance and a bit better fuel economy. Seems pointless.
More resources needed to make heavier cars just to be able to cheat the tests
This new V8 facelift is such a miss. It makes GT43 look like a top end model in comparison.
I look forward to the 4 cylinder ( like C63 ) version. That will certainly be a hot seller ! Pass.
India ❤
These dinosoar cars are hit wall pretty fast, they are heavy, expensive and useles with no connection to driver, when new battery technology apears with double less weight, just imagine lets say tesla model 3 with 1700kg and 800hp?
WHY ARE YOU CARRYING MASSIVE BATTERIES IN YOUR THUMBNAIL?
It's a metaphor for the weight that hybrid cars are carrying. Why did you type your question in CAPITAL LETTERS?
@@Nickbaldeagle02 ITS THE NEW TREND... ALWAYS USE CAPS IF YOUR COOL LIKE ME.
WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING
@@Msunuwakho IVE GOT BAD HEARING I ALWAYS SEEM TO SHOUT WHEN IM TALKING. ANY SUGGESTIONS?
@@DaleSteel A HEARING AID
Battery tech needs to advance and fast. Weight, power, capacity and charging time all need to be addressed.
I am just commenting before I even watch the video because I will be the 3rd one to comment. Now, to the video
Just admit you secretly hate EV & Hybrids! and then stop making content on them! Merry Xmas.
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Yes they are pretty useless. Who wants something that heavy? Fact is currently owning an M3CS, and M2, both 2024, and previously an M3 Competition immediately before that, a dozen Porsches over as many years, 3 C63s including a first edition., I am now fed up of them all. This is helped by the "reason of state" and the dire situation in Gaza.
Not going to type too much, Electric is horrible.
Because of warm up, I would END my drive in EV before parking at home.
Neither one thing, nor another.
Which is the case with all Merc offerings right now.
Not an EV horsepower beast, or an analog pleasure for ICE fans.
And as EV takes over, these complex, expensive to maintain, undesirable hybrids, will depreciate faster than the Titanic.
Merc have all the best components for making a car, EV or ICE, but can't put them together into a single memorable automobile.
i would rather drive a 6.3 v8 or 5.5 biturbo anyday of the week vs this what is the point of these new design they are no longer worth it sad to say it but bmw is taking the crown at the moment mercedes is strictly luxury and are making crappy looking cars with no aggressive look everything looks soo round no body lines no fender flares they have the lowest aftermarket mod selection and super over priced it's disgraceful .... RIP AMG 1967-2016
Do not buy it
They're not destined to suck. They're destined to be IMPOSSIBLE to service & repair in 5-6 yrs, completely negating any "green" nonsense which only drooling idiots could believe.
In a few years, there will have to be entire cities built to give room for enough new junkyards for these disposable throwaway pieces of sh*t.
I try so hard to watch your videos on these....things, & I love your channel, but the philosophies behind the engineering here is just sickening. Money-grabs for those dumb enough to buy them. A fool & his money....
One of the worst Mercedes I’ve ever seen