Make stronger cabinets with through joinery
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
- The Alan Peters joint is one of the strongest bits of joinery you can employ in your projects. Whether you cut it with a Shaper Origin or via traditional methods, this is one of the most important joints to master early on in your woodworking career.
Thanks to Shaper for partnering with me on this object. If you want to learn more about the Shaper Origin you can visit shapertools.com....
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Items I use in this video (some are affiliate links which help sponsor this content):
DeWalt Trim Router: amzn.to/3LbCbTF
1/4" Spiral upcut bit: amzn.to/49h9huR
1/2" Router bit:
Items I keep on hand in the shop:
Glue:
Titebond I Wood Glue: amzn.to/3zRXHGv
Titebond III Wood Glue: amzn.to/3MVnG6j
Titebond Quick and Thick: amzn.to/42HGuMC
Liquid Hide Glue: amzn.to/3PhZEEW
My Finish Mix:
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Liberon Finishing Oil: amzn.to/3kXkIEf
Danish Oil (alternative): amzn.to/3Njlabs
Liberon Beeswax: amzn.to/3Jm2yFN
Turpentine: amzn.to/3SWFznB
Mineral Spirits (alternative): amzn.to/3oKU83h
Power Tools and Accessories:
Festool Domino: amzn.to/47YEty0
Table Saw Blade - Woodworkers II: amzn.to/42bIOLa
My favorite trim router: amzn.to/3LbCbTF
DeWalt Trim Router fence: amzn.to/43cYwr2
My Festool Router Setup: amzn.to/3ZPIQal
Extra Fence: amzn.to/3KHi9jI
1/2" dia Router bit: amzn.to/3UkRFYI
A Better Alternative (Spiral Up Cut): amzn.to/3mcPsSp
Sharpening:
Ohishi Waterstones: amzn.to/3TkoZhP
1,000/8,000 Combo (great budget option): amzn.to/3Lqj7Sh
Angle Setting Jig Plans: www.lie-nielse...
Inexpensive Honing Guide: amzn.to/3Jo2Uub
Lie-Nieslen Honing Guide: www.lie-nielse... guide
Sandpaper for Flattening: amzn.to/3Jor73F
TotalBoat Epoxy:
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You can stay up to date with my work here:
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I once built a bench using this joint for a guy in our church. It was the Alan Parson’s Project.
Underrated comment
I thought about closing the video when the shaper came out, not because I’m anti Shaper, but because it’s not relevant content to me. Shapers are cool and great tools, but I doubt I’ll ever have access to one given its price point.
I am however, super grateful you showed a way to cut the joint with tools I have. So for me, the entrée of the video was watching how to make the joint using the second method, but the shaper aspect was a nice appetizer.
I was going to do the same. Usually do once someone gets one out.
Nice video Erik. Wish the Shaper Origin was out years ago. My buddy won one 2 years ago. He called and wanted my help in a project. After 4 hours of trying to set it up his grandson came in and bingo 10 minutes later all set up. The Moral, old dogs have a hard time with new tricks. Carry on bud, really enjoy your work and skill. Semper Fi bud.
Like I’ve said to you before Eric,you’re a professional and it’s common sense to have the best tools for the job. I’m just a hobbyist and enjoy the making of jigs or setups to get the same results but take longer. Thanks for the video.👍👍
This is what it's all about! Some brief explanations at the beginning, then a demonstration (or two) showcasing the different approaches, and a great end result! Keep making videos like this, as it is easy to digest and very informative! On a side note, I noticed a trend in your videos.. "Words are hard!" You should make some merch that capitalizes on this! Imaging a shirt with your name on the front, and on the back, the slogan "Wood is hard... words are harder!" lol In either case, I thoroughly enjoy your videos and this channel! Absolutely golden!
Once again, masterfully presented, entertaining, and knowledge transfer achieved!
Love this channel.
Love this joint for things like bookcases.
I tend to do through tenons, with a hybrid approach, cutting the dado and rabbit by router, and the tenon & mortise with saw & chisel respectively.
Also wonderful for a simple bench.
From my couch, 😁It sure seems like the shoulder of the shallow, but full width dado adds a ton of sheer-strength to the joint. Having a shoulder the full width of the board, even a small one, it going to resist perpendicular loads incredibly well. Thanks for another great video.
I make stools I sell on our Etsy store that are ALL made with THROUGH-WEDGED TENON joinery. I cut the parts out on my CNC ROUTER and then work them to fit...still requires skill sets to perform and the CNC DOES NOT make anything I can send to a Customer right off that machine...just like YOU SAID, "It's just another tool." Another great video sir...thanks.
Just another stool? 🙂
I think I can cut these with just a circular saw and a jig saw. I got some scrap 2x4s so I think I'll experiment.
The joy is in figuring how I can do something, not what I can make and I thank you for showing all the ways you cut this joint.
And don't forget your bandsaw too! 😉
I love the variations of styles. And how both are shown. Great video. Now the cup is empty, and the show is over, time for me to go make a thing. Thank you again, till next week.
I'm just commenting to boost you a bit in the algorithm, love your work.
Funny you should mention the hollow chisel mortiser. I received one as a gift 3 years ago and finally pulled it out of the box to learn how to use it.
I am definitely a garage novice in most woodworking so the mortiser is jumping over using hand tools.
And this ! Is why I watch your channel. Thank you for all your time and effort. 1in7
I love watching and learning from your videos You do what I want you to do with my videos (which I haven’t started yet) which are some history and variations added Always love you your explanation of why you do it your way
Your past experiences has prepared
you for you tube videos You are so relatable
Thanks for taking the time to create such great content and sharing It has to be time consuming
I really like the through tenons
I love the double-sided tape trick to the workbench! I have never thought of that! Definitely gonna use that in the future.
It is not just your knowledge or skill, I love your style.
A good argument against the giant tenon is that some wood fibers bridging across the mortise can add a lot of strength to the piece the tenon is going into, and the joint can only be as strong as the weakest piece.
You also demonstrate a design feature engineers call poka-yoke at about 8 minutes in: having that stopped dado prevents certain flavors of wrong assembly; there might obviously be a carpenter's triangle to guide you if you haven't planed or sanded that off yet, but making wrong orientations physically unable to fit together can be super nice when it comes up.
Loved this video, same application with a domino can be done. People who get bent out of shape due to the use of the shaper origin probably have decedents who downplayed the use of the wheel when it became a thing. They are all just tools that get to the end, some just faster then others.
thank you EN .
Cool to see the 3x3custom router base being used. Probably selling it better than anyone in this one video.
This is a great joint I will try soon. I need to make some tools cabinets for myself so a great moment to try it. So what you are saying, this joint is strong enough to use it also for the bodem to the styles. I’ll give it a try
Once again, content that hits close to home; I'm looking to make a small cabinet and was wondering about the joinery. Also, appreciate touching base on the different perspectives on the approach and that everyone is different because everyone may have different areas of joy in their journey. I think it is beneficial to know how different techniques are used is important. To use more efficient means of assembling a joint that ultimately nobody will ever see and get to the place and allowing more time to sculpting and detailing visual aesthetics would seem more pleasing; that is, in my humble opinion. Thanks again for another good one!
BTW, is Larissa quietly eating cheez-its 🤣
Thank you for another informative and interesting video. Shaper versus router, bearded coffee mug versus plain? It’s all relative.
As always, wonderfully presented and explained!
I make a lot of A&C-inspired pieces with through-tenon joints. I'm primarily a hand tool fellow, but I'm not above driving over to a friend's (much larger and impressively outfitted) shop to borrow some time on their hollow chisel mortiser when I've got a slew of them to do. I enjoy the slow, fiddly, contemplative nature of hand working a complicated joint, but lets be honest, that enjoyment fades after a couple of them in a row.
On picking when to use which joint, I think it's a combination of experience and a bit of common sense engineering. The truth is, sometimes, especially early on, you're going to pick the wrong joint. It doesn't necessarily mean the piece is a failure, it just means you learned something for next time. Decades into woodworking picking the right joint for the task is pretty intuitive, but early on in the journey I don't feel like you're going to really learn how different joints work without implementing them and seeing how they behave in a tactile way. But maybe that's just me being thick headed and having to learn things the hard way😄
I use hand tools, so the sight of the whiz bang machine frightened me. But that's my hobby. I'm good with other people doing their version of their hobby. And, one can't make a reasonable income while only using hand tools. There is as much difficulty in using modern equipment to it's best use as there is in cutting joints by hand.
Great video as always Eric!
Great job. Saved this for future applications.
I noticed a copy of Eric Sloane's "Museum of ,,,Tools" under your tool cabinet. My copy, acquired as a teen in the 60s,, led me down the garden paths of woodworking and tool collecting. 😀
Thank you!
Great video. Shout out to using Tamar's router base jig as well!
Erik, love your videos, brother~! I just bought an outfitted Origin and will for sure be putting it thru the paces. I was looking to get into the CNC world and this machine looked like the best of both worlds. It allows me to do automated wood processing while still being totally "hands on," which was the whole reason for doing woodworking.
I guess you don't have a video for the bookcase you mentioned in this video. I'd love to see details on that one~! Thanks much.
Useful and helpful. Thx.
As always great information Erik another awesome video! I always look forward to Saturday for your videos! Very informative!
personally have no issue with the user of a shaper. if i had one, i would use it ...all...the...time. But, seeing as it costs more than all the tools in my garage combined; if the project requires it for complexity, or you only show how to do something with it and not a 'cheaper' way ..thats when i check out. So....thank you for taking the time to show how to use a regular router as well.
I absolutely love your argument when it come to old way vs new technologies and machines that we have available to us. I also love how you can instantly hear the Purists commenting as the words are coming out of your mouth because… I could hear them too 🤣. Great video as usual brother!
Good joint, thanks for the lesson
Great presentation! I would like to know more about the “origin”. Thank you.
Love your channel. You stick to techniques and not projects. I don't care about projects! I like the techniques and then allow my coffee/scotch-soaked brain to create my own project. Hope to see you here in Indy at Marc Adams this year.
Thank! good one
A very useful video!
As always, I learn so much from yr vids - including when to just be practical rather than going overkill on invisible aspects for "perfection".
Shaper looks like an awesome tool, but as I don't have one, I really appreciate the manual m&t process run through.
I like to think my joinery will last forever, saying that I had an extra drawer box made with butt joints and stapled together, that thing sat in my driveway for years, filling up with water and drying out over and over until one day I threw it in a burn pile, wow what a lesson in joinery that was, never underestimate the stapled butt joint 😂
Just realized the tool cabinets doors are curved . Very cool Eric ! Any chance you can close them for us someday ? I always thought it was kinda plain for your skill set . But now ...well ...its quite ....you . Always captivated , always amused , always impressed . Thanks bro . Johnny B. P.S. was that a "myriad" of compliments ? Keep doing you , thanks again . Ciao
Great video: interesting, informative and good info. I think that's a great joint. It also harks back to the dado joint with short dowels you spoke of a few weeks ago. But why 1/4" deep dado with the tenons. I think the 1/6" shoulder is great. Why not a shallow dado and keep strength. This is not a criticism It's a request for insight. Thank you
Right at the end of the video, you were using a spear shaped rasp, it literally for like 1 second. But I really want to know what kind of rasp is that?
I need one!
Good video. I think I will likely use a dado more to hide imperfections. I’d like your opinion on climb cutting with a router? I consider it a good option to combat tear out but I feel alone with that option.
I enjoy your content. I find it entertaining, down-to-earth and educational. One question - where did you get that - I will call it a miniature sliding T-Square? I would like to get one.
Love the instruction but was curious about the mini t square you used when you measured the inside of the dado. I can’t find one.
Could you do a video on using the Shaper Origin?
19:20 That's what she said. Sorry, felt like "The Office" moment.
New subscriber, great videos! Def have to try out this joint.
Question, where did you get that trim router base? Didn't see it listed in your tool list, love the design.
I thought one of the benefits of the housed mortise and tenon was to increase the long grain to long grain glue surface since a simple dado has mainly end grain to long grain glue surface and one large tenon has only long grain to long grain on the edges of the tenon. so increasing the # of tenons increases the long grain to long grain surface... just like double tenons on the front rail of a web frame into legs or the case side increase the glue surface as does have bare (not bear) tenons (not shoulders on the faces) maximizes the glue surface for thin web frames say in 5/8" thick. or am I missing something....
Do you have to worry about wood movement with this joint if you are building a larger piece of furniture? If this is being used on an 18" deep shelf, should the stopped mortise be wider then the tenon to allow for movement? Should the entire joint be glued? Any best practices on how many tenons I could place on a wider shelf. I was thinking four, 3.5" tenons across that 18" shelf.
For that particular usage, I tend to use sliding dovetails. Is there a reason to use this joint over a sliding dovetail?
Noise complaint coming from a woodworker is rich. Hahaha
Could you do the same on a CNC?
big question - I'll be using 3/4" thick hardwood for a cabinet using mortise & tenon and dadoes. Is it wise to cut 3/4" mortises?
I figure the dado will provide sidewall strength.
Nice one.. Why do I have a feeling of de ja vu?.... I made the tongue in cheek suggestion to show this joint on the shoulder rabbet video and BOOM😆 Erik delivers. What do you call it when you move away from using power tools and become almost exclusively a hand tool user? Regressive Luddite?....
Do I glue the whole thing or just the tennons???
My problem is that you are a good teacher but I would be surprised if even 1% of your viewers have or ever will have a Shaper Origin because we have so many other things that is $2,900 cost would be better suited for so anything you do with it is interesting but not really educational except for the bits where you show the results but not how to make them using tools that at least 99% of your views are likely to have. Fortunately doing the other version of the joint was much more valuable and I’m glad you accidentally did it with the housed tenon and I’ve saved the video for future reference if I decide to try it.
The exception is if you use them to build something that your viewers enjoy watching more as entertainment but not something that your hobbyist is never likely to make because of the skill involved, Sawyer Design would be a good example of this sort of creator’s projects.
As mentioned, you are a really good educator and hopefully you continue to show how to do things using realistic tools rather that a $2900 tool that practically nobody has but it’s obvious that they have put a SO into every major wood working creator’s hands so it’s going to be shown off more and more to the detriment of viewing achievable projects and frankly the creator’s subscriber views as more and more people lose interest in watching creators start to lean on it more and more because they are either getting paid or given expensive perks to do so. I already have channels I’ve stopped watching because their projects aren’t interesting enough to be entertainment but because they do everything with SO’s or CNC and Pantorouters etc that the content is also not instructive.
The answer to that is what he said at 17:01 - the point of his channel is to show what a professional furniture maker does.
Shaper Origin… woodworking blasphemy?? I think not. I don’t have one, and likely never will, because making furniture is not how I make my living. If it was my living, I for dang sure would learn how to use one, though, and I’d use it cheerfully.
I note that Gustav Stickley, who objected to mass-produced furniture made by machines (but employed machines like hollow-chisel mortisers in his production shop!) saw power tools as “a way to relieve the worker of drudgery”. (Ref. R. Lang’s “Shop Drawings for Craftsman Furniture”)
Nicely stated! 👍
Honest question, why use the shaper origin as opposed to a cnc router?
Do you have a link for the handled router base?
I have to ask. Where do you get your wood? I don't like getting it online. Most lumber yards in the area are based more on construction. I don't like getting anything from the box stores (The limited variety of overpriced hardwoods). I think your base of operations isn't too far from my neighborhood. ...maybe a long drive. ...anyway thanks for your videos. I've learned quite a bit from you.
And someday, in the not to distant future, a replicator will simply spit out a fine piece of hand crafted piece of furniture, and humanity will have no purpose.
"Luddites" 😂
At my age, you have to look for minimal physical effort in making pieces and joints. That’s why my floor Mortiser stands like a statue unused. Thank goodness for the domino (and that I bought both sizes back when you didn’t need to sell the wife to afford them).
There are 2 through joints that I like aesthetically. The first is the protruding box joint as used by Greene and Greene. The second is my version of the AP through joint but using domino’s (bought or shop made).
I do like the look aesthetically of “extreme” dovetails I.e. different sizes, elongated tails etc but standard dovetails, for me, add nothing to strength of aesthetic.
My core question, one that I genuinely don’t know (but think I can guess) the answer to. Take a G&G style joint using modern glues; take a traditional dovetail also with modern glues. What is the difference in strength? And, if there is a material difference, does it matter? (For example, G&G takes 3 tonnes of pull whereas dovetails take 4 tonnes; so dovetails are stronger but both perform way above what they will ever need).
Hmm. Full blind mitered Peter Allen joint 🤔
Yes you are right in tow ways, that shaper machine is just another machine, nothing wrong in using it but I think for most of hobbyists and semi professionals it’s a machine that we won’t have and probably never will have so it kind of spoils the whole thing, it’s like watching all those guys woodworking on their CNC machines basically watching a programed machine cut something out of a piece of wood and then watch the assembly. As audience you lose interest, since you are here to learn and get inspiration it becomes boring and uninformative to watch someone use a machine that most don’t have
Stand on it. Go on. I double dog dare you.
If you are going to do a through mortise just give me a wedged and tenon. And a 3K plus, a Shaper Origin is far outside the normal budget. Maybe a Panourouter would be a better option.
Do the video
Right. Looking at you holding a machine from which I even do not know the name, making very accurate mortises and tenons. I think you are loosing me, this is beyond my reach. I still enjoy watching your video's, but this looks more like looking at you while you're gaming with a computer than inspiring by craftsmanship in using machines or tools. Ideal if you want to increase your production, as Ikea once did. Luckily than the mortises were made with router and jig. And then you showed how to make the tenons the old way again... pfew!
Sorry dude, you lost me on this one. Love the music though.
Blah blah blah.... here's your comment bud
How funny would it be to time travel to shops during major tech shifts in woodworking tools to see how much people have always complained when it changes happen? Imagine whining craftsmen insulting younger journeymen who used metal bodied planes with their faster sharpening thin irons or the first apprentice to bring modern random orbital sanders with the upgrades in abrasives to a shop when the master has planes or sanded by hand forever.
Oh the meltdowns when a less experienced craftsman won work away from the masters with faster turn around a for functionally identical work that the customers were more than willing to buy.
As I learn more from UA-cam and consider a woodworking side hustle, I’m realizing that customers can’t tell the difference between hand cut and machine assisted on most cases and won’t pay substantially more just because something was made with an older method out of stubbornness .
Literally anyone whining about a tool of any type, toss your battery powered drills and drivers in the trash, get a brace and a set of manual screw drivers, and stfu. :)
Shaper is a cool piece of kit no doubt but was hoping for something a little more practical in execution. Still a cool vid. Thanks.
Erik Curtis:
Woodworker, Artist, Entertainer.
Cheers.
Not to be confused with the Peter Griffin joint. Which is just bologna and cheese rolled up like a doobie. Seriously Erik, awesome video. I love these joinery videos. As I broaden my traditional woodworking abilities, I have some joinery to look forward to learning one day.
“Sisyphian task” WOW! That’s a new one. Quite the vocabulary lesson on this channel and I Like It!
He's doing his own impression of tantalus.
It's more of a literary reference than vocabulary but maybe that is just semantic.
Эрик, как раз с точки зрения прочности острые внутренние углы концентрируют напряжения и ослабляют конструкцию. По этой причине в металлических изделиях такие углы делать категорически не рекомендуется. Поэтому теоретически - скругленный шип лучше, чем острый угол в отверстии. Но практическая разница, особенно для дерева с его структурой, вероятно очень мала.
Great work! Always learning from you.
All the anti-Shaper people, where do they all come from? All the anti-Shaper people, where do they all belong?
Not much meat left between the trough tenon version. Wouldn't it be a major purpose (to leave some meat on the mortise side I mean) to make multiple tenons instead of a single big one ?
Great video anyway 👍
Just tell us the truth. You have a new fun toy and are going to use every excuse to have fun with it!
Does your shopmate do videos as well?
Which origin version do you have gen 1 or 2?
This is better than what my professor taught me in college.
Hi Curtis, cool and instructive, thanks for that. Is there a reason not to have both ends of the groove closed instead of only one ?
Curtis is probably getting more coffee so I’ll try to answer: Stopping before the edge gives a cleaner look on the front surface of the cabinet as the dado isn’t visible.
Yeah, but he was asking why not have it stopped on both the front and the back.
You totally can. It's just that stopped dadoes are usually only' for aesthetics, and nobody is gonna be looking at the back of a cabinet usually anyway.