fromsoft pre dlc: well grabs are inherently frustrating to deal with combined with latency, so we made them really weak to balance it out: they have an angle check, no hyper armor and a really small range. fromsoft post dlc:
The explanation of multiplayer hitboxes is SO GOOD in this video, I legit can consistently parry Radagon as a furled finger. Thank you deeply for your thorough coverage of these things that helps develop my understanding of the game 💚
As someone that has used life steal fist more than I should have I knew from the get go it wasn’t a bug that made this strong, it was the range and hyper armor. But to be honest so many were complaining about it that I started to have my doubts. So thanks! Now I feel validated :) I appreciate your dedication to backing up what you say by showcasing the actual data
Also I might add that from some testing (the irony in relation to my previous comment is not lost on me), it appears to do mostly (if not entirely) physical damage, so boiled crab is a good way to reduce damage if you do get grabbed. Other than that I can say that jumping attack buffs do not work (thank you Michael Zaki) and the crucible scale talisman doesn’t reduce its damage.
I see no one in the comments addressing the feet hitbox with full respect. It's probably one of the more frustrating aspects of this AoW; even if you do dodge the hitbox of the sword, which should be the only one there is in my humble opinion, you can roll into the second one, which effectively increases its range, and more importantly, gives this impression of inevitability. It basically forces you to punish it at range exclusively, all the while having short enough recovery to slip your attacks anyway.
@michaelbowman6684 If a player with high latency spams it they are unstoppable. All grabs are client side biased but this one is the first of its kind to be nearly unpunishable, very quick recovering & cheap.
Correct. You have to play passive and careful. Whether your opponent is a complete noob or very experienced, the ash is always threatening and requires you to play well against it
"Opponent" is a big word for the maggots abussing its ash of war in PVP @@Rust_BKT This and the Claws of Night are toxic af. And before someone says something, I only play Coop to help others... and when I see the Invader is using these weapons I know that's probably over for us. It makes me lose my time and I hate them for it.
@@danield.6452 thats pretty toxic of you to refer to someone as a maggot just for using a weapon you dont like. Yes the weapons are strong in the right situations, but damn bro
Important note, the follow up spike attack knocks other god users out of their aow, so if you miss your grab and they go for one, dont be afraid to let the follow up rip To be fair, i dont know if its only at the specific time during the jump animation that you can knock them out, or if it just does it every time
The fact that players won't get stunned out of this attack by colossal weapons is crazy. Either that hyper armor needs to go or the hitbox needs to be reduced to something accurate to the visual size of the sword with that foot hitbox removed. If that skill is going to deal more than 50% hp, it needs to take skill to land.
I think they should just increase the fp cost. The skill is fine for what it is. It's not that hard to avoid once you see it a few times. Just making it unspammable would be enough to balance it..
@@AlbinoMutant Once you learn how it works, it is very avoidable, but that doesn't change the fact that the way this move is currently designed is straight anti-fun. Relying on cool-downs or limited uses to balance something is lazy design. One of the big draws of Souls games are their relatively accurate hitboxes of weapons with hitbox sizes, damage, and frame data all working in tandem to balance it all out. Spamming something isn't issue--the lack of intuitive spacing due to an obscenely large hitbox that more than encompasses 5x the volume of the visible weapon, unintuitive hyper-armour that rivals UGS despite being a fraction of the weight and size, and the AoE follow up on miss, and the ability to immediately roll out immediately all contribute to a low skill, low risk, high reward weapon. Low risk high reward is not healthy nor fun for gameplay in the long run. That's why Elden Ring PvP is generally seen as less enjoyable than older titles despite arguably having better fundamentals--many weapon skills are quick and do so much damage for no reason that they nullify everything else. This is exponentially even more true in invasions where cooperators can huddle by each other and spam AoW's--even ones that are normally slow and punishable, because they can easily cover one another's start-up/end-lag with their own attacks without even worrying about friendly fire. Low risk high reward just makes gameplay tedious for those on the receiving end because they now have to play while stepping on eggshells, not because the opposing player is good, but because whatever they are using is.
I think being able to run side ways might make it too easy but def the hyper armor needs to be nerfed, either way still a fun weapon to use and fight against.
@@Kratos_1572I think even with the tracking nerfed a bit it would still be in an okay spot, people would just have to use it more as a whiff punish or a prediction rather than how they use it now. It’d be like a lot of other attacks that require free aiming, it’s just a bit of skill expression. If someone had to free aim that grab and managed to catch my trajectory I could never even be mad.
I learned more about how to pvp from this video than I have from over a decade of playing the souls series. Never could get into it because I didn't understand how to counter jank and wasn't going to invest many hours getting my ass beat until my 6th sense of latency developed.
imo this ash is a bit overrated. People are just not used to a command grab that deals so much damage. - The range is terrible, might be good among other grabs but its shit compared to other ashes. - Therefore just running away is more than enough to counter your opp, throw a few projectiles to get chip damage - staying OUT OF RANGE is the most consistent way to dodge/avoid the grab imo - This works best as a surprise attack, when you swap from your primary to this and force a trade - Also works well in invasions, although I still perfer zamor icestorm
Its strength is as a reaction trade stick. Denies people from being able to pressure, even if theyre using a gugs. Obviously if you just spam it then it will be dogshit
No, the netcode makes sense here. If grabs werent coded this way then they would almost never land above 160ms. The issue, as i said in the video, is the root motion. Dont get it twisted
@@Rust_BKT some backstabs not landing is far more preferable than teleport stabs that have been plaguing these games for so long. come on now. phantom hits in general are nonsensical. status build-up, headshots, and now this..
@@Rust_BKT I think it's more reasonable to dismiss the check on the attacker's side rather than the victim. Otherwise this attack is just a lagger's dream. Let's say you're playing on 500ms connection, enemies won't be able to roll it at all anymore except predictively.
"but id really recommend that you just play well instead of trying to recommend some gimmick that only works half the time" r/eldenring, r/eldenringpvp and r/badredman crushed mercilessly
I don't find this weapon annoying at all, it's actually one of the things i find most interesting to fight against even in invasions, because at least is a slow move and isn't as spammable as other things. To me the true annoying shits are those who are spammed permanently and with an enough fast animation that they can punish even your attempt to heal after a roll... Those things are truly garbage, like obviously Swift Slash, Blind Spot, Moonveil, Smithscript Shield, Claws of night and other bullshits.
I had no idea grabs didn’t follow the two-sided confirmation rule, this explains so much! Useful and entertaining video as always. I already try to keep in mind my opponent’s latency for spacing but now it looks like I have even more reason to do so.
This is an amazing explanation of how the greatsword of damnation works, thank you! One 'counter' that you forgot to discuss was bleed or frost procs pulling gamers out of animations. I am pretty sure if a bleed proc is triggered during the jump the animation is canceled as well as the attack. Which can be common in a 1v2 or 1v3 invasion scenario. Again, awesome video, thanks for sharing the data!
Yea bleed/frost/ madness/sleep can pull them out but its super not worth risking unless you can garunteed the proc before the hit can land. Ice pot “maybe”, but with how high robustness is on the new armor, i wouldnt risk it. Someone else pointed out that fighting on elevators is a good option because you have grab immunity when youre on an elevator, and thats more of the type of counter that youd want to be making use of, something consistant and reliable. But you brought up a good point, just make sure you know if you can garuntee the proc before you go for it
@@Rust_BKT Guaranteed proc, you say? Spread crossbow status bolts it is! After all, you can’t get more Elden Ring than countering something “broken” with something actually broken
I was hoping you'd address why the first instance of damage on the grab is inconsistent. Sometimes, it seems like the damage when the sword first touches the head does not occur, only the damage from the spines exiting the body... but no one can figure out why. Oh, and i had the pleasure of dueling you the other night. I was the guy with the Sword of Night and Giant Golden Arc combo. ❤️
@@gg_kthx i remember that fight because i kept thinking i could passive poise the golden arc, and when it poise broke me i was super surprised. Never again will i try to walk through that
Really good weapon to use when getting ganked though. Excellent hyper armour and Iframes. Excellent base moveset too. And super satisfying to grab wizards.....
Good for gankers too unfortunately. But keep in mind that if you miss, the follow up will actually knock out an opposing GOD user from the air if they try to punish your crux. Just handy tip to keep in mind
@@Rust_BKT That's also very true! Haven't encountered it too much invading strangely. Swift slash has been the most difficult thing to deal with when getting ganked, even with 109 poise
Ok so these educational videos remind me of how sleepy sheepy goes about his videos and its refreshing compared to the usual invade with xyz build that I'm used to. I hope youll be able to keep posting this stuff because I personally find it EXTREMELY interesting to find out more about a topic when I thought I was all that when it came to a knowledge check.
@@Rust_BKT And we love king rust too 🗣️🗣️❤️. I hope to see some more meme videos like the deathless arena with something dumb like the dragon great katana or the weaker kung fu weapons. I'd be happy with anything, love the channel !
Little tip: instead of jumping you can use fortissax lightning spear ( or any airborne spell for that matter) and be compleetely immune to any grab. And punish theirs with 2k damage lightning. Works on reaction
Hey thats a cool idea, the ash does i think 440 poise damage, so as long as you have enough hyperarmor with one of those ashes thst might work. Id have to test specifics though to see how they hold up, assuming somethibg like storm assualt would probably be too slow? Or likely get you stuck in the animation long enough tp be hit by crux’s follow up. Not sure
@@Rust_BKT i have been hit by crux follow up (and staggered out of the air) but if you are fast enough you get both fortisax lightnings off and win the trade easily. Also most people seem afraid when they see the lightning and notice their grab missed that they seemingly dont press the follow up xD. As i said i only tested with fortissax LS so there might be other options
Great breakdown! I'm enjoying these videos on the stuff that really doesn't sit right with a lot of PvP players Maybe some information on Claws of Night next? Maybe I didn't look deeply enough but it sounds like it has some annoying properties to it Headshot stagger, extreme bleed buildup, etc
Thank you for this breakdown. Is the reason the Dagger Tali works with Golden Crux bc it's a grab? I was wondering what the connection between all these skills that are buffed by this tali was.
I kind of like that GoD exists as a trading tool. But I think it's AoW could cost a bit more FP to punish flippant use and spammers. Especially that follow-up hit, being punished for missing should be more common. I like to use GoD as my second weapon in a fight, keeping it hidden and then swapping to it when you see the opponent attempting to trade so you can win the trade with the AoW
I'm mostly rocking the Death Knight Greataxe, but I keep GoD equipped and swap weapons if the opponent is spamming an annoying AoW or Spell as a punish tool.
I don't know if anyone's said this here, but I'm pretty sure using it and having no stamina will mean you can't get the grab, too. Just something I've noticed in testing
Personally i've not ever found this particular ash all that oppressive, a little annoying sometimes, but not oppressive. Kinda like how its a GS you shouldnt trade with, thats an interesting feature for some weapons to have and a working command grab is pretty cool. Don't use it myself, but totally don't mind playing against it at all
@@_You_Are_Not_Him_ Nah for sure, though thats kinda fun and unique. Removes that trait from being more or less selective to colossals but not overstepping the mark by having everything else in its class be like that. More like a gimmick than anything else
Agreed, I’ve used it in only like two invasions but it is indeed something where you can just figure out when to time your evasion. As long as you don’t try and dodge towards it.
This weapon is ridiculous, even hitting just the base stats not even fully upgraded you can hit close to 1,000 damage with the grab, perfect for Smurf invaders. Hyperarmor is insane, can tank through greatsword lights and roll attacks, great hammer jump attacks Works similar to status effects in the sense that it can hit you through rolls if you are in range.
Whenever i see this weapon, i feel like if you can deduce the type of player using that ash and punish it usually well like in your video, its not that bad. I always keep a decent distance so i can just run away from the grab. One of the more fun things I did if you're using palm blast is bait the grab but be close enough to take a step back in range to bait the follow up barbs then hyper armor and biden blast him into oblivion. There's more stupid shit in the game that needs more attention instead of this imo. If this does get nerfed in some way, I'll be a bit sad. Using that in invasions was pretty fun.
Thing is a menace on PC. With the padded latency of EAC, you can enter invasions and spam L2. It'll eventually land on someone and even if you miss, you can fling any targets in the air.
The delayed follow up makes it pretty hard to punish a miss though but looking at the rest of your video ya you're right the only thing that annoys me about it is the insane hyper armor the grab has. I hit someone with a running two handed R2 with the giant black arrow head and it still went through ya it went through a strong R2 running attack from a freaking colossal sword that shouldn't happen regardless of poise (they were wearing light armor btw).
Having a grab box on the feet seems pretty bugged to me. As an aside, does anyone know if you can block the AoE follow up? Generally we have to just have to wait around until the invader runs out of FP with this sword since the grab is so cracked. Being able to block the follow up and attack would be nice to get it done with sooner
I spam smithscript throw attacks and that also works like a charm while using crique sometimes you can also bait out the follow attack and punish with jump throw+ blindspot combo if you get good positioning and avoid initial grab with jump but its a bit risky
Thats why I love this weapon always Use her aow by fast menu switching after range attack bait, 90% success in invading, if they didn't die fast menu switching into lightening dual axe aow, then recieve claps. happy decent win.
Honestly never had a problem fighting against it. It's so telegraphed. Other crutches are more awful to deal with: blind spot, swift slash on top, then there is that crossbow always forcing me to swap talismans and pata having all the advantages of the best fist weapons but also being 2x longer with more dmg. Generally nobody swaps to this sword upon losing, but they all swap to either backhand blades, pata or night claws.
The best way to fight this weapon is not over commit and spacing. Also using spells that lift you in the air seems to help. I've nuked so many people spamming this with fortissax's lightning spears because they land helplessly at my feet lol.
Curious how the Hyper-Armor works in pve as alot of the time enemies in pve knock me out of the air after already getting into the air with for grab with the ash, specifically on the Black Knight dlc enemies. They swat me down like my cat does to flies.
I only do videos on things that i find personally interesting or beneficial to share about. I kept hearing about the golden crux and how people were claiming it was bugged, so i wanted to look into how it was so. But just rumors and misinformation. I have a list of topics i want to do though and just do them as i please
@@Rust_BKT Hm. That seems absolutely ridiculous because they just nerfed a bunch of stuff that lets you reaction trade only to introduce a new one 🤦. I guess its not as bad since you cant trade with light attacks but still stupid tbh.
Sorry, ive never actually used it in pve. Would be interested to know myself, if you planned on doing any testing with it and wanted to share your findings
@@Rust_BKTJust got it and been using it for a couple hours, definitely a PVP oriented weapon, thought its pretty good against groups of humanoid enemies.
Nope, happens with lifesteal as well. Its probably more due to the sword having a grab box and the feet having another, but more likely its that 2 people get hit and they each register that they were grabbed on their side of the connection, but youre technically only grabbing 1 of them according to your own data. Hard to explain. But in short, it isnt exclusive to the weapon, or thst specific interaction
It grapples you with the oppents feet... fan freaking tastic. Like, it really annoys me that I can't bring myself to use one of the coolest looking swords because of how it hits. Interesting to know it's not a bug, but it's annoying the length of the grab makes even jumping a wonky solution. In my head, jumping was the clear solution when I saw it, but I gave up trying after I kept failing the attempts. Seems weird that grapple immunity only kicks in as you fall.
I thought the same, i had to look into the full animation data to actually see at which point it started, i always assumed it was right as your feet left the ground
Not a bug but a "miscalculation of player positions" do miscalculations not fall under the category of bugs? By this notion all command grabs are bugged this one is actually just useable because the animation is not trash. Just because it's the standard doesn't mean it's correct, if you think im wrong then let's wait and see if it's included in the next patch (I'm betting it will be)
No i dont consider this a bug. Its just a visual misrepresentation of position thats been inflated by latency. On low lat, youd still get some amount of desync but its all dependent on client side checks. One person checks their position, the other checks theirs. The animation is forced to play anyway but the calculations may be incomplete or lacking data from the opponent in time to accurately display positions. So it does its best then fixes it after they recover. If player position DIDNT fix after the animation, THEN id consider it a bug. This is more just a feature of how p2p connections work and less a consequence of faulty coding. Go back to this vid and youll see exactly what i mean ua-cam.com/video/ug8RMoZ59lQ/v-deo.htmlsi=pXUzsgqlaQbtXKOo
@@Rust_BKTallow me to quote you once more "incomplete or lacking data" while I am aware it's not an error in code it's still unintended and thus a bug by definition, it comes down to how you decide to define the term bugged, which is generally defined as an issue that causes software(or hardware btw) to behave in unexpected or unintended ways, examples of which include coding errors, oversight in design, unexpected interaction with other software, ect. Unless Fromsoft envisioned players getting teleported into command grabs I'd say it's a bug. I watched your full video and understand what you're saying but it's clear that you are meant to be able to dodge attacks like this without having to anticipate your opponents latency. While you might not considered it to be a bug anyone can Google the definition of a software bug and find this fits the bill
glad theres a mechanical explanation but my question has always just been why. as a design decision. why would they work different from normal hit detection, same with status build up on phantom hits. it doesnt work this way when enemies are doing it to you. theres no situation where with perfect latency you should be getting status from a weapon but not damage, so why seperate them
well, you have a falacy built into your logic. "no situation where with perfect latency you should be getting status from a weapon but not damage". Youre correct, and infact, you dont. the only time that phantom hits apply are when the attacker confirms the hit and the defender rolls late with respect to latency. If you were to govern checks only on the defenders side of the connection, then it would be virtually impossible to roll catch anyone reliably or consistantly. Phantom hits atleast allow for some form of feedback to let both players know exactly waht the state of the connection between them is, otherwise people would just be phasing through shit and it would look infinitely more cursed than it does. We have a good comparison in how this would look like from how they coded Lords of the Fallen remastered. And if you arent familiar, let me assure you, it is NOT a good system to have in place. Grabs working on a one side confirmation is how they have always worked in souls games, , where backstabs have extra checks to further allow an opponent some opportunity of escape, but dark hand from ds3 was a thing. In all cases of lifesteal fist, darkhand, ect, theyve always been inherently weak due to their lack of range. but if someone rolls poorly, then theyre rewarded. I think that this is a perfectly balanced system and approach to grabs. where golden crux is different, is in its root motion and hyperarmor. wait why am i explaining this. watch the video. enjoy
@@Rust_BKT I watched your video I understand. you're just saying grabs have to cheat to be usable which is like ok lol not exactly sensible design but sure, they're not that big of a problem when they're weak. I do think the priority should be consistent systems and then balance rather than just breaking rules because they design things that are bad. but you're not understanding my point about status, it's not about the way hit detection works. I think that's fine and the alternative would be worse. it's about status and damage not having the same detection. you can roll damage but not status because they are seperated, even though according to game mechanics every instance of status should be attached to a successful instance of damage. that's what im saying makes no sense
and to be clear when I say you can't roll I obviously mean phantom hits on bad latency, there's no reason these should have status and not damage (if they had damage it'd obviously be even worse), but every time I ask people just uncritically say that's the way it is and so it never gets changed. I understand how just don't get why
@@Rust_BKT lmao? think critically about why status would have a different detection than damage when every instance of status should be accompanied by damage based on game mechanics. hmmm... ok I thought about it. makes no sense. if you have an explanation at the ready then maybe you should just paste it
They might nerf it in some way just due to how many people complain about it, but youre likely going to see a hitbox nerf or reduction in frames. Either way it shouldnt really kill the weapon, just make it a little easier to dodge
@@Rust_BKT how about sword of night? Does it true combo into R2? Or just only R1? It’s more confusing than golden crux becoz the crux often just used to turn and burn, can be counter by my faith build wrath of gold when they fly up, but sword of night im confused about do i roll aside or what do i do attack during the launch part.
Ok so it’s not bugged but it’s just that op huge range hyper armour attack that is very very hard to punish if it misses due to a follow up and fast recovery and it does very high damage basically it works as intended it’s just over powered as shit
Its funny how polarized these comments are. Read through some for a bit. Its interesting how people can have such contrasting opinions about the same thing
So they added an attack with all the benefits of a riposte but none of the risk associated with it like timing a parry or maneuvering for a backstab. Just press L2 gaming.
the amount of players talking about a "bugged hitbox" is actually making me insane . and every time i have to explain... no sir, its just a client side grab not a fucking hitbox
Like everything in Elden Ring, It just works with 16 times the detail. Miyazaki Howard and Patches makes sure that everything functions as intended! Eventually, y'know like a live service lmao low standards.
Any particular reason you use the term "soulsborne" in 2024? It is like saying a single game from 2015, 9 years ago, is as important as what is now four souls games (which includes two remasters and one remake)? Wouldn't SoulsRing, or EldenSouls make more sense? I like Bloodborne though, it was a good action game/third person shooter.
Silver lining , at least in my experience, most of the players using this weapon when I’ve invaded them at SL150 are awful and spam the AoW over and over again in place just hoping ill run into it. So, I don’t get by hit by it much. But just like anything, give this thing to a competent souls vet and its joever
No changes made with patch 1.13
I'm stealing calling it Golden Crutch and you can't stop me.
Most of the community has been calling it that since day 1 as it was one of the most obvious crutch weapons added
**points downwards**
huh, i always hear Golden Crotch
Same!
fromsoft pre dlc: well grabs are inherently frustrating to deal with combined with latency, so we made them really weak to balance it out: they have an angle check, no hyper armor and a really small range.
fromsoft post dlc:
Network test: what backstabs
Pre dlc: satisfying af
Post dlc: feelbad for using it
Ok so roll early and blame it on rust spelling missinfo when it doesnt work bc i didnt adjust to lat, got it tyvm
Perfect TLDW.
@Rust_Bucket LIED about Golden Crux!!!😢😢🤯😡😡
0:43
Well, you didn't have to crush my dreams like that...
😂
I was gonna say
@@Amir0wait aren’t you the dark souls 3 hacker boss guy
Hearing "Hello Gamers" fucking sent me lmao. I love your little interactions with other content creators
Its oroboros thing
The explanation of multiplayer hitboxes is SO GOOD in this video, I legit can consistently parry Radagon as a furled finger. Thank you deeply for your thorough coverage of these things that helps develop my understanding of the game 💚
As someone that has used life steal fist more than I should have I knew from the get go it wasn’t a bug that made this strong, it was the range and hyper armor. But to be honest so many were complaining about it that I started to have my doubts.
So thanks! Now I feel validated :)
I appreciate your dedication to backing up what you say by showcasing the actual data
Also I might add that from some testing (the irony in relation to my previous comment is not lost on me), it appears to do mostly (if not entirely) physical damage, so boiled crab is a good way to reduce damage if you do get grabbed.
Other than that I can say that jumping attack buffs do not work (thank you Michael Zaki) and the crucible scale talisman doesn’t reduce its damage.
I see no one in the comments addressing the feet hitbox with full respect. It's probably one of the more frustrating aspects of this AoW; even if you do dodge the hitbox of the sword, which should be the only one there is in my humble opinion, you can roll into the second one, which effectively increases its range, and more importantly, gives this impression of inevitability. It basically forces you to punish it at range exclusively, all the while having short enough recovery to slip your attacks anyway.
Its not bugged but its still not okay to deal with.
I was gonna say, yeah it's not bugged but that doesn't mean I have to like the intentions behind it. It's grossly overtuned.
@michaelbowman6684 If a player with high latency spams it they are unstoppable. All grabs are client side biased but this one is the first of its kind to be nearly unpunishable, very quick recovering & cheap.
Correct. You have to play passive and careful. Whether your opponent is a complete noob or very experienced, the ash is always threatening and requires you to play well against it
"Opponent" is a big word for the maggots abussing its ash of war in PVP @@Rust_BKT
This and the Claws of Night are toxic af. And before someone says something, I only play Coop to help others... and when I see the Invader is using these weapons I know that's probably over for us. It makes me lose my time and I hate them for it.
@@danield.6452 thats pretty toxic of you to refer to someone as a maggot just for using a weapon you dont like. Yes the weapons are strong in the right situations, but damn bro
Important note, the follow up spike attack knocks other god users out of their aow, so if you miss your grab and they go for one, dont be afraid to let the follow up rip
To be fair, i dont know if its only at the specific time during the jump animation that you can knock them out, or if it just does it every time
The fact that players won't get stunned out of this attack by colossal weapons is crazy. Either that hyper armor needs to go or the hitbox needs to be reduced to something accurate to the visual size of the sword with that foot hitbox removed. If that skill is going to deal more than 50% hp, it needs to take skill to land.
I think they should just increase the fp cost. The skill is fine for what it is. It's not that hard to avoid once you see it a few times. Just making it unspammable would be enough to balance it..
Its hyperarmour being lowered couldn't hurt @@AlbinoMutant
@@AlbinoMutant Once you learn how it works, it is very avoidable, but that doesn't change the fact that the way this move is currently designed is straight anti-fun. Relying on cool-downs or limited uses to balance something is lazy design. One of the big draws of Souls games are their relatively accurate hitboxes of weapons with hitbox sizes, damage, and frame data all working in tandem to balance it all out.
Spamming something isn't issue--the lack of intuitive spacing due to an obscenely large hitbox that more than encompasses 5x the volume of the visible weapon, unintuitive hyper-armour that rivals UGS despite being a fraction of the weight and size, and the AoE follow up on miss, and the ability to immediately roll out immediately all contribute to a low skill, low risk, high reward weapon. Low risk high reward is not healthy nor fun for gameplay in the long run.
That's why Elden Ring PvP is generally seen as less enjoyable than older titles despite arguably having better fundamentals--many weapon skills are quick and do so much damage for no reason that they nullify everything else. This is exponentially even more true in invasions where cooperators can huddle by each other and spam AoW's--even ones that are normally slow and punishable, because they can easily cover one another's start-up/end-lag with their own attacks without even worrying about friendly fire. Low risk high reward just makes gameplay tedious for those on the receiving end because they now have to play while stepping on eggshells, not because the opposing player is good, but because whatever they are using is.
Right, like a bubble half the length of the sword all the way around the sword isn't exactly accurate for what is supposed to be a grab attack
"Nailed harder than that time you got stuck in a clothes drier."
Took me a moment lmao
From my perspective, to balance the weapon, they could just nerf they hyper armor or the tracking of it, so you could at least run it to the sides.
I think being able to run side ways might make it too easy but def the hyper armor needs to be nerfed, either way still a fun weapon to use and fight against.
@@Kratos_1572I think even with the tracking nerfed a bit it would still be in an okay spot, people would just have to use it more as a whiff punish or a prediction rather than how they use it now. It’d be like a lot of other attacks that require free aiming, it’s just a bit of skill expression. If someone had to free aim that grab and managed to catch my trajectory I could never even be mad.
I learned more about how to pvp from this video than I have from over a decade of playing the souls series. Never could get into it because I didn't understand how to counter jank and wasn't going to invest many hours getting my ass beat until my 6th sense of latency developed.
The fact that I have to time my rolling based on the latency between myself and the opponent is what's broken. It makes fighting less intuitive.
imo this ash is a bit overrated. People are just not used to a command grab that deals so much damage.
- The range is terrible, might be good among other grabs but its shit compared to other ashes.
- Therefore just running away is more than enough to counter your opp, throw a few projectiles to get chip damage
- staying OUT OF RANGE is the most consistent way to dodge/avoid the grab imo
- This works best as a surprise attack, when you swap from your primary to this and force a trade
- Also works well in invasions, although I still perfer zamor icestorm
Its strength is as a reaction trade stick. Denies people from being able to pressure, even if theyre using a gugs. Obviously if you just spam it then it will be dogshit
Mostly it is not overrated in ganks due to the spam potential. But yes in duels it is easy to avoid once you practice.
In short, it's not the grab that's broken. It's Fromsoft's shitty netcode.
No, the netcode makes sense here. If grabs werent coded this way then they would almost never land above 160ms. The issue, as i said in the video, is the root motion. Dont get it twisted
@@Rust_BKT some backstabs not landing is far more preferable than teleport stabs that have been plaguing these games for so long. come on now. phantom hits in general are nonsensical. status build-up, headshots, and now this..
@@Rust_BKTi have to say as a old ds1 pvper at the time...
Ds1 backstabs made more sense than this grab.
@@fangrowls6336 😂
@@Rust_BKT I think it's more reasonable to dismiss the check on the attacker's side rather than the victim. Otherwise this attack is just a lagger's dream. Let's say you're playing on 500ms connection, enemies won't be able to roll it at all anymore except predictively.
Awesome video, so nice to see the data broken down like this and explained so clearly. Appreciate the work you do!
"but id really recommend that you just play well instead of trying to recommend some gimmick that only works half the time" r/eldenring, r/eldenringpvp and r/badredman crushed mercilessly
Love the details you show during the breakdown showing hitboxes and game properties. Thanks!
I don't find this weapon annoying at all, it's actually one of the things i find most interesting to fight against even in invasions, because at least is a slow move and isn't as spammable as other things.
To me the true annoying shits are those who are spammed permanently and with an enough fast animation that they can punish even your attempt to heal after a roll... Those things are truly garbage, like obviously Swift Slash, Blind Spot, Moonveil, Smithscript Shield, Claws of night and other bullshits.
I had no idea grabs didn’t follow the two-sided confirmation rule, this explains so much! Useful and entertaining video as always. I already try to keep in mind my opponent’s latency for spacing but now it looks like I have even more reason to do so.
This is an amazing explanation of how the greatsword of damnation works, thank you! One 'counter' that you forgot to discuss was bleed or frost procs pulling gamers out of animations. I am pretty sure if a bleed proc is triggered during the jump the animation is canceled as well as the attack. Which can be common in a 1v2 or 1v3 invasion scenario. Again, awesome video, thanks for sharing the data!
Yea bleed/frost/ madness/sleep can pull them out but its super not worth risking unless you can garunteed the proc before the hit can land. Ice pot “maybe”, but with how high robustness is on the new armor, i wouldnt risk it. Someone else pointed out that fighting on elevators is a good option because you have grab immunity when youre on an elevator, and thats more of the type of counter that youd want to be making use of, something consistant and reliable. But you brought up a good point, just make sure you know if you can garuntee the proc before you go for it
@@Rust_BKT Guaranteed proc, you say? Spread crossbow status bolts it is! After all, you can’t get more Elden Ring than countering something “broken” with something actually broken
@@eldonhill4840 inb4 whoever youre fighting watched my vid on countering the sleep xbow 😂
I was hoping you'd address why the first instance of damage on the grab is inconsistent. Sometimes, it seems like the damage when the sword first touches the head does not occur, only the damage from the spines exiting the body... but no one can figure out why.
Oh, and i had the pleasure of dueling you the other night. I was the guy with the Sword of Night and Giant Golden Arc combo. ❤️
@@gg_kthx i remember that fight because i kept thinking i could passive poise the golden arc, and when it poise broke me i was super surprised. Never again will i try to walk through that
Really good weapon to use when getting ganked though. Excellent hyper armour and Iframes. Excellent base moveset too. And super satisfying to grab wizards.....
Good for gankers too unfortunately. But keep in mind that if you miss, the follow up will actually knock out an opposing GOD user from the air if they try to punish your crux. Just handy tip to keep in mind
@@Rust_BKT That's also very true! Haven't encountered it too much invading strangely. Swift slash has been the most difficult thing to deal with when getting ganked, even with 109 poise
Finally, Hyperarmor on a grab attack!
i love using this sword so much. legendary claymore moveset +sick tradebeast edgy finisher
Easily the best pvp videos on UA-cam. Love your content man, keep it up ❤
Ok so these educational videos remind me of how sleepy sheepy goes about his videos and its refreshing compared to the usual invade with xyz build that I'm used to. I hope youll be able to keep posting this stuff because I personally find it EXTREMELY interesting to find out more about a topic when I thought I was all that when it came to a knowledge check.
@@Mizuraka4437 we love sleepysheepy here 🖤 thats my boy
@@Rust_BKT And we love king rust too 🗣️🗣️❤️. I hope to see some more meme videos like the deathless arena with something dumb like the dragon great katana or the weaker kung fu weapons. I'd be happy with anything, love the channel !
The prophet has come to deliver us the gospel from Jesus Miyazaki !
Little tip: instead of jumping you can use fortissax lightning spear ( or any airborne spell for that matter) and be compleetely immune to any grab. And punish theirs with 2k damage lightning. Works on reaction
Hey thats a cool idea, the ash does i think 440 poise damage, so as long as you have enough hyperarmor with one of those ashes thst might work. Id have to test specifics though to see how they hold up, assuming somethibg like storm assualt would probably be too slow? Or likely get you stuck in the animation long enough tp be hit by crux’s follow up. Not sure
@@Rust_BKT i have been hit by crux follow up (and staggered out of the air) but if you are fast enough you get both fortisax lightnings off and win the trade easily. Also most people seem afraid when they see the lightning and notice their grab missed that they seemingly dont press the follow up xD. As i said i only tested with fortissax LS so there might be other options
Great breakdown! I'm enjoying these videos on the stuff that really doesn't sit right with a lot of PvP players
Maybe some information on Claws of Night next? Maybe I didn't look deeply enough but it sounds like it has some annoying properties to it
Headshot stagger, extreme bleed buildup, etc
I think they deserve a video. I have the clips for them already, so ill get around to them eventually
Thank you for this breakdown. Is the reason the Dagger Tali works with Golden Crux bc it's a grab? I was wondering what the connection between all these skills that are buffed by this tali was.
Yep
I kind of like that GoD exists as a trading tool. But I think it's AoW could cost a bit more FP to punish flippant use and spammers. Especially that follow-up hit, being punished for missing should be more common. I like to use GoD as my second weapon in a fight, keeping it hidden and then swapping to it when you see the opponent attempting to trade so you can win the trade with the AoW
I'm mostly rocking the Death Knight Greataxe, but I keep GoD equipped and swap weapons if the opponent is spamming an annoying AoW or Spell as a punish tool.
Thanks for the PSA, dude!
I don't know if anyone's said this here, but I'm pretty sure using it and having no stamina will mean you can't get the grab, too. Just something I've noticed in testing
Thats interesting, i never even thought to test that, but worth noting. For sure it doesnt grab without fp though
Personally i've not ever found this particular ash all that oppressive, a little annoying sometimes, but not oppressive. Kinda like how its a GS you shouldnt trade with, thats an interesting feature for some weapons to have and a working command grab is pretty cool. Don't use it myself, but totally don't mind playing against it at all
Definitely not an ash you can commit against.
@@_You_Are_Not_Him_ Nah for sure, though thats kinda fun and unique. Removes that trait from being more or less selective to colossals but not overstepping the mark by having everything else in its class be like that. More like a gimmick than anything else
Agreed, I’ve used it in only like two invasions but it is indeed something where you can just figure out when to time your evasion. As long as you don’t try and dodge towards it.
guessing you play on playstation and not latency ring
@@lizard_bois5559 Nope, PC, i just dont get too close to it if it looks like they have a window
My god I hate this ash, appreciate the intel.
I’ve been caught more times than I’d like to admit while invading, it was infuriating.
This weapon is ridiculous, even hitting just the base stats not even fully upgraded you can hit close to 1,000 damage with the grab, perfect for Smurf invaders.
Hyperarmor is insane, can tank through greatsword lights and roll attacks, great hammer jump attacks
Works similar to status effects in the sense that it can hit you through rolls if you are in range.
at least it isn't bugged....its just annoying.
thank you for the info Rust, great video as always
Whenever i see this weapon, i feel like if you can deduce the type of player using that ash and punish it usually well like in your video, its not that bad. I always keep a decent distance so i can just run away from the grab. One of the more fun things I did if you're using palm blast is bait the grab but be close enough to take a step back in range to bait the follow up barbs then hyper armor and biden blast him into oblivion.
There's more stupid shit in the game that needs more attention instead of this imo. If this does get nerfed in some way, I'll be a bit sad. Using that in invasions was pretty fun.
Thing is a menace on PC. With the padded latency of EAC, you can enter invasions and spam L2. It'll eventually land on someone and even if you miss, you can fling any targets in the air.
@@h33day If you miss??? Do it again fuck it, funny hyper armor move.
In other words. You have to be able to adjust your dodge time based on how long it takes for fan daggers to read a hit.
Miriam’s Vanishing into this AoW is so hilarious
max lvl i guess?
@@lukaogadze5071 I have a lvl 202 and 300 that are capable of this set up. It doesn’t work on my 125 - 166 builds
The delayed follow up makes it pretty hard to punish a miss though but looking at the rest of your video ya you're right the only thing that annoys me about it is the insane hyper armor the grab has.
I hit someone with a running two handed R2 with the giant black arrow head and it still went through ya it went through a strong R2 running attack from a freaking colossal sword that shouldn't happen regardless of poise (they were wearing light armor btw).
Having a grab box on the feet seems pretty bugged to me. As an aside, does anyone know if you can block the AoE follow up? Generally we have to just have to wait around until the invader runs out of FP with this sword since the grab is so cracked. Being able to block the follow up and attack would be nice to get it done with sooner
How does Golden Crutch scale? With faith? Strength/dex? Or all 3 like the weapon itself?
Roll early, got it, thank you!
i just roll backwards and spam poisonbone darts while they are stuck in the animation. they usually stop spamming the aow after that
Genuinely a good call
I spam smithscript throw attacks and that also works like a charm while using crique sometimes you can also bait out the follow attack and punish with jump throw+ blindspot combo if you get good positioning and avoid initial grab with jump but its a bit risky
Been waiting for this❤
Thats why I love this weapon always
Use her aow by fast menu switching after range attack bait, 90% success in invading, if they didn't die fast menu switching into lightening dual axe aow, then recieve claps. happy decent win.
Well I'll be DAMNED 🙊
AH! AH! AH! i see what you did there
Makes sense it’s just netcode shittery,
nice explanation of player interaction with latency
Reason number 753 for ghost hits to be fixed.
You dont want that 😩 LOTF flashbacks
Was wondering why I got teleported into the grab in the arena. Thanks!
Honestly never had a problem fighting against it. It's so telegraphed. Other crutches are more awful to deal with: blind spot, swift slash on top, then there is that crossbow always forcing me to swap talismans and pata having all the advantages of the best fist weapons but also being 2x longer with more dmg. Generally nobody swaps to this sword upon losing, but they all swap to either backhand blades, pata or night claws.
The best way to fight this weapon is not over commit and spacing. Also using spells that lift you in the air seems to help. I've nuked so many people spamming this with fortissax's lightning spears because they land helplessly at my feet lol.
Damn I was wrong. Thankyou for giving me one of your spare brain cells!
@@yanakaizzz9335 im gunna need that cell back tho, i only had 2 to begin with
@@Rust_BKT Sorry I lost it :P
Curious how the Hyper-Armor works in pve as alot of the time enemies in pve knock me out of the air after already getting into the air with for grab with the ash, specifically on the Black Knight dlc enemies. They swat me down like my cat does to flies.
As amazing and informative as always
This makes so much sense now, wow
The stuck porn reference gets you a sub
Do you have a list of things of weapons, mechanics, etc that you want to do or is it whenever it’s most relevant or interesting? Or both?
I only do videos on things that i find personally interesting or beneficial to share about. I kept hearing about the golden crux and how people were claiming it was bugged, so i wanted to look into how it was so. But just rumors and misinformation. I have a list of topics i want to do though and just do them as i please
Placidusax's ruin(shock wave) or Golden Wraith can break the hyperarmor fairly easily
He's a soulsborne creator with an emphasis on pvp if anyone didn't know
I'm more confused than ever about you nailing me
This sword makes me Lmao so much.
It is very silly, lol
Wait what about when Golden Crux does a good chunk of damage before the grab animation?
@@TotallySaneDude the weapon hitbox does damage
What chest piece does Alter have on? like at 6:07 and 3:04 and 6:31 i really like the fashion lol
@@autogreen2k519 thats the altered black knight chest piece iirc.
Thanks Rust! love your videos btw they help me so much (:@@Rust_BKT
Im just wondering, does this mean that you can just reaction trade most charged r2s, or maybe even something like storm stomp or stamp AOW.
Yea, you can reaction trade pretty much anything with it
@@Rust_BKT Hm. That seems absolutely ridiculous because they just nerfed a bunch of stuff that lets you reaction trade only to introduce a new one 🤦. I guess its not as bad since you cant trade with light attacks but still stupid tbh.
How good is this weapon for PVE? Does the AOW work on Non-Tarnished/Humanoid NPCs?
Sorry, ive never actually used it in pve. Would be interested to know myself, if you planned on doing any testing with it and wanted to share your findings
@@Rust_BKTJust got it and been using it for a couple hours, definitely a PVP oriented weapon, thought its pretty good against groups of humanoid enemies.
Tip: giant hunt on a halberd beats it quite easily
So roll early huh, that works for me. Still the tracking and hyperarmor is insane on this ash.
Or they could just give us the ronald mcdonald ds2 clown suit to wear to disable backstab/grabs ;)
Great reference lol, but please no, all i know how to do is backstab fish
my goat
Ive got a clip or two to send you for this sword, ive grabbed people and been able to freely move about
so when it grabs more than 1 player simultaneously...thats not a bug??
Nope, happens with lifesteal as well. Its probably more due to the sword having a grab box and the feet having another, but more likely its that 2 people get hit and they each register that they were grabbed on their side of the connection, but youre technically only grabbing 1 of them according to your own data. Hard to explain. But in short, it isnt exclusive to the weapon, or thst specific interaction
It grapples you with the oppents feet... fan freaking tastic. Like, it really annoys me that I can't bring myself to use one of the coolest looking swords because of how it hits. Interesting to know it's not a bug, but it's annoying the length of the grab makes even jumping a wonky solution. In my head, jumping was the clear solution when I saw it, but I gave up trying after I kept failing the attempts. Seems weird that grapple immunity only kicks in as you fall.
I thought the same, i had to look into the full animation data to actually see at which point it started, i always assumed it was right as your feet left the ground
Where do you get that hitbox graphic? Is there a mod?
Cheat engine
@@Rust_BKT Ty
I wish this weapon and the backhand blades were removed.
So why does Golden Crux sometimes do an extra hit of damage before the grab?
The sword deals damage before the grab
Not a bug but a "miscalculation of player positions" do miscalculations not fall under the category of bugs? By this notion all command grabs are bugged this one is actually just useable because the animation is not trash. Just because it's the standard doesn't mean it's correct, if you think im wrong then let's wait and see if it's included in the next patch (I'm betting it will be)
No i dont consider this a bug. Its just a visual misrepresentation of position thats been inflated by latency. On low lat, youd still get some amount of desync but its all dependent on client side checks. One person checks their position, the other checks theirs. The animation is forced to play anyway but the calculations may be incomplete or lacking data from the opponent in time to accurately display positions. So it does its best then fixes it after they recover. If player position DIDNT fix after the animation, THEN id consider it a bug. This is more just a feature of how p2p connections work and less a consequence of faulty coding. Go back to this vid and youll see exactly what i mean ua-cam.com/video/ug8RMoZ59lQ/v-deo.htmlsi=pXUzsgqlaQbtXKOo
@@Rust_BKTallow me to quote you once more "incomplete or lacking data" while I am aware it's not an error in code it's still unintended and thus a bug by definition, it comes down to how you decide to define the term bugged, which is generally defined as an issue that causes software(or hardware btw) to behave in unexpected or unintended ways, examples of which include coding errors, oversight in design, unexpected interaction with other software, ect. Unless Fromsoft envisioned players getting teleported into command grabs I'd say it's a bug. I watched your full video and understand what you're saying but it's clear that you are meant to be able to dodge attacks like this without having to anticipate your opponents latency. While you might not considered it to be a bug anyone can Google the definition of a software bug and find this fits the bill
As always good info rust
glad theres a mechanical explanation but my question has always just been why. as a design decision. why would they work different from normal hit detection, same with status build up on phantom hits. it doesnt work this way when enemies are doing it to you. theres no situation where with perfect latency you should be getting status from a weapon but not damage, so why seperate them
well, you have a falacy built into your logic. "no situation where with perfect latency you should be getting status from a weapon but not damage". Youre correct, and infact, you dont. the only time that phantom hits apply are when the attacker confirms the hit and the defender rolls late with respect to latency. If you were to govern checks only on the defenders side of the connection, then it would be virtually impossible to roll catch anyone reliably or consistantly. Phantom hits atleast allow for some form of feedback to let both players know exactly waht the state of the connection between them is, otherwise people would just be phasing through shit and it would look infinitely more cursed than it does. We have a good comparison in how this would look like from how they coded Lords of the Fallen remastered. And if you arent familiar, let me assure you, it is NOT a good system to have in place. Grabs working on a one side confirmation is how they have always worked in souls games, , where backstabs have extra checks to further allow an opponent some opportunity of escape, but dark hand from ds3 was a thing. In all cases of lifesteal fist, darkhand, ect, theyve always been inherently weak due to their lack of range. but if someone rolls poorly, then theyre rewarded. I think that this is a perfectly balanced system and approach to grabs. where golden crux is different, is in its root motion and hyperarmor. wait why am i explaining this. watch the video. enjoy
@@Rust_BKT I watched your video I understand. you're just saying grabs have to cheat to be usable which is like ok lol not exactly sensible design but sure, they're not that big of a problem when they're weak. I do think the priority should be consistent systems and then balance rather than just breaking rules because they design things that are bad. but you're not understanding my point about status, it's not about the way hit detection works. I think that's fine and the alternative would be worse. it's about status and damage not having the same detection. you can roll damage but not status because they are seperated, even though according to game mechanics every instance of status should be attached to a successful instance of damage. that's what im saying makes no sense
and to be clear when I say you can't roll I obviously mean phantom hits on bad latency, there's no reason these should have status and not damage (if they had damage it'd obviously be even worse), but every time I ask people just uncritically say that's the way it is and so it never gets changed. I understand how just don't get why
Just think critically about it please? I cant keep typing the same essay everytime someone asks this
@@Rust_BKT lmao? think critically about why status would have a different detection than damage when every instance of status should be accompanied by damage based on game mechanics. hmmm... ok I thought about it. makes no sense. if you have an explanation at the ready then maybe you should just paste it
Tks God it’s not about nerfing the weapon i like to f with the most.
They might nerf it in some way just due to how many people complain about it, but youre likely going to see a hitbox nerf or reduction in frames. Either way it shouldnt really kill the weapon, just make it a little easier to dodge
@@Rust_BKT how about sword of night? Does it true combo into R2? Or just only R1? It’s more confusing than golden crux becoz the crux often just used to turn and burn, can be counter by my faith build wrath of gold when they fly up, but sword of night im confused about do i roll aside or what do i do attack during the launch part.
great vid
I have never had trouble dodging this thing on console.
Ok so it’s not bugged but it’s just that op huge range hyper armour attack that is very very hard to punish if it misses due to a follow up and fast recovery and it does very high damage basically it works as intended it’s just over powered as shit
Its funny how polarized these comments are. Read through some for a bit. Its interesting how people can have such contrasting opinions about the same thing
@@Rust_BKT I’m not sure how anyone could think that this move is anything else other than obnoxious and over powered
very good video. thank you.
So they added an attack with all the benefits of a riposte but none of the risk associated with it like timing a parry or maneuvering for a backstab. Just press L2 gaming.
yep, thats pretty much right
the amount of players talking about a "bugged hitbox" is actually making me insane . and every time i have to explain... no sir, its just a client side grab not a fucking hitbox
It should work this way otherwise it would be an useless and crappy aow. We already have to much of those
Yep, 100%
Edit, well actualy idk about the hyperarmor tho, but im a hyperarmor hater. I think if it had normal gs HA then it would be perfect
But i dont want you to teach me im here for the other thing
If you get hit by this it’s pure SKISSUE get better
Kinda but also no, the ability to just reaction l2 and hyperarmor through literally anything is a bit ridiculous
Like everything in Elden Ring, It just works with 16 times the detail. Miyazaki Howard and Patches makes sure that everything functions as intended! Eventually, y'know like a live service lmao low standards.
Any particular reason you use the term "soulsborne" in 2024? It is like saying a single game from 2015, 9 years ago, is as important as what is now four souls games (which includes two remasters and one remake)?
Wouldn't SoulsRing, or EldenSouls make more sense?
I like Bloodborne though, it was a good action game/third person shooter.
Because when bloodborne comes to pc ill main that shit
Not wrong about the shooter xD
Because LEGENDS NEVER DIE!1! also damn I cant believe BB is almost a decade old
It's eldensoulsborne
Silver lining , at least in my experience, most of the players using this weapon when I’ve invaded them at SL150 are awful and spam the AoW over and over again in place just hoping ill run into it. So, I don’t get by hit by it much. But just like anything, give this thing to a competent souls vet and its joever
When 1 button does all the work for you, its hard not to play like a brainlet, lol
The depth of your foolishness!
Golden crutch? It's says Crux.
You're mistaken,it's clearly golden crutch