New Sam Records: Sahib Shihab! Against the Original and the Japanese Repress (2001)
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- Опубліковано 20 вер 2024
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I thought the Sam reissue sounded incredible. One of the best sounding releases of last year imho. The original must be otherworldly.
Oh it is... its wonderful!
My two cents : I made a comparison between Sam Rec. & the Japanese repress, and what jumps out is that Atelier Sawano's version is simply louder, while Sam's is more dynamic, detailed and quieter.
At the same sound level, the newest repress is better in every way !
Exactly. You have to compensate for the higher volume that comes from the Japanese version being cut louder.
I presented the two versions on my channel a couple of weeks ago - and reached the same conclusion as you.
@@Claus-CaptainPhoenixCorner I just checked your review and you're also right about the boomy low end of the Sawano's which can give a more flattering impression of punch.
I'm totally with you !
Very timely video Michael as I ordered it this morning. Having only ever heard it on YT I am still looking forward to listening to it and owning it.
Sitting and listening to SAMs now and it is a very very good sounding record indeed. Would love to compare but I’m so glad for this release. Great video as always Michael.
Always enjoy these comparison videos and to have it available through Sam Records is great news. - Thank You, Michael !
It's an excellent album and a favourite of mine. I discovered it via utube; wasn't aware of its wide acclaim.
Captain Phoenix’ Corner has a review on this. He’s a Danish jazz lover and is well acquainted with this record. He doesn’t have the original but does have the Japanese reissue. He likes the Sam’s better. He says it’s an excellent release with fine sound.
Vielen Dank, Michael, for all your wonderful vinyl reviews! I had never heard Sahib Shihab! before your video, thank you!
Enjoyed the stream, thanks Michael. the Sam Records issue at around £40 compared to around £3000+ for the 1965 original, is a bargain; even if the sound quality is not quite matched.
I love your videos of reissues - It gives us all a chanche to know fantastic albums without paying 5.000 Euros.
Just ordered 👍🏼🍻
I have lots of family in Dusseldorf where you live as well. Do you ever kick back and enjoy listening to music and having a few shots of Killepitsch with some Füchschen Alt beer with friends? I was able to get my local liquor store to carry Killepitsch over the last 15 years or so. Unfortunately no Füchschen exported to the USA.... yet. Nothing like great music and Killepitsch on a chilly Winter evening!
I ordered the Sam Records, even though it may fall short in SQ, I love their efforts and like to support them. And the Japanese 2001 is around £120 for a good copy factoring in taxes and postage. But reissues on a copy like this where this is only the 3rd version, you gotta get them.
I dunno, I think there is definitely listener bias at play here. I mean, if they sounded close there goes the 7,000 Euro value of the OG, right? Lol.
To realize this title at its best, the Japanese version is a welcome alternative.
Michael, ♥️🙏 thank you very much for this comparison.
Heike = 😁
Happy new year Michael.When you rewiew again Tone poet and Classic Series Blue Note vinyls?
I have the Sam record one after Thomas Busk showed the original in your stream. I was not too impressed but now I understand. Thank you for the comparison.
Interesting...
For a better comparison would have been useful to know the DR values of the three issues. Most likely the latest one is mastered a bit louder and a bit compressed. And not because of the quality of the original tapes. This is unfortunately how mastering is done nowadays.
The Japanese issue is probably mastered at almost the same DR levels like the original one but maybe with higher peaks and RMS values so it loses a bit of nuance.
A suggestion if I may. When comparing try and do the listening at the same volume level for all versions (find the optimum one for the first one you listen and then keep it for the second one). The difference in mastering will be clear as night and day. 🙂
You are addressing an important subject when comparing different versions of records.
In this case however, the Sam Records release is cut almost 6 dB LESS loud than the Japanese version BUT has more than 3 dB higher DR (Max SPL - Average SPL) across all 8 tracks. If you take Max SPL - Min SPL the difference is just under 3 dB.
I have both versions (there is a video on my channel but without the measurements which I first did efter having watched Michaels video and doubted the conclusion).
I've asked Michael how much he adjusted the volume when comparing, but has got no ansver (yet). It might be that he didn't level them out - which has most likely led to his conclusion that the Japanese version sound "better", "more dynamic" etc. (the well known "Loudness"-phenomenon).
But it doesn't when you adjust for the difference - my conclusion still holds after another 4 hours of listening and measuring.
Thank you for the video. Maybe i'm more critical than others and i'm sorry if i'm not doing you any right. But if sam records release a record that sounds day and night to the original, it is okay and gets no bad comments. But if other companies release records that sound only different but not worse or better than the original they get completly thrown under the bus. I think that is not really so fair. Please correct me if i'm wrong and i'm interested to hear your side of the story.
Happy New year Michael.
Interesting observations for sure.
I cannot imagine that Chad at AP would release a version where it’s day/night in favour for the original.
Respect that Sam records put it back in print.
The Japanese sounds like a favourable alternative .
After being blown away by AP 75 series which have smashed the originals .
This reissue is disappointing it doesn’t at least match the Og.
Have a lovely evening Michael 🤙
Well, this lit a fire under me - hadn't placed an order with Sam Records in over a year 😞Let's start the New Year off right!
Yes - this is really a great record with very inventive and groovy arrangements.
Interesting comparison w. the OG since it's so hard (=impossible...) to get. Even here in DK I have never seen a copy (nor one for sale).
Regarding the comparison with Japanese version: How much (=how many dB) did you adjust the level when comparing? The Japanese is cut louder that the Sam version.
Michael, please comment.
Don’t get this twisted, by no means is the Sam records a bad pressing.
I played it last night and on par with anything else that has been put out on that label.
Schönes gefälliges Album, halt wie man es aus der Zeit kennt.
Happy new year and best wishes from France. Thanks for this incredible shootout, (almost) none of us will have the chance to do. Please keep on giving us videos in 2024… j from Paris.
Ok….factor in old ears and not 10’000 EUR equipment, and it’s a no brainer. This re-issue will be sold out quickly. Alles gut.
Still available, comes as a surprise as the popularity and interest is thru the roof and there were reportedly only 3000 records pressed, as limited edition. You'd think there are many more than 3000 of us Jazz listeners and collectors who would wipe the market off, but alas. Sam has few copies left, as Fred mentioned in one of his recent Facebook posts. There are couple of web shops in Europe that have few too. US market has been "cleaned", Mike Esposito at In-groove has 2 left with damaged cover corners.
I got mine from Eligo shop for 25Eur so won't complain...a killer deal for something that will become a 'grail' if Sam doesn't decide to re-press it.
@@babolababs4732 I got mine last week from Sam records direct. Yes, it's true, there are only few left now. Glad I jumped on time on this, I lost so many good pressings of the recent years by not 'following' the market movements and announcements. This will become rare and possibly expensive, I agree with you. It is a Limited Ed so Sam should not be re-releasing it again.
Thank you. That was scathing. Would it add value if you assign a score in your comparisons. That way nothing would be lost in translation. I don’t think you really meant the difference was day and night. So, if the original is 10/10, what is the rating for the Sam Record?
Hey Michael, you've been missing from my channel recommendations so far. I've now added you... 👍🏻
missing you. hope all is well. your fan, roger
Hm, I don't know what I should think about that comparison. I like your videos a lot but I think there is a lot of bias in regard to OGs and expensive Vinyls. I have notice that in your opinion the OGs are always better especially the expensive ones. If the results are always the same, why do you make such comparison? I'm sure that Sam Records did an awesome job on this and I doubt that the japanese pressing is better. But ok, I get it, it's more expensive to buy that's why is better. Music should be about music and not be about trophy hunting. Maybe I am wrong but I have that impression about your OG vs Remaster Videos.
Hey, quite unfair to Michael. He gives us the opportunity to have a shootout that you and most of us, will never experience ourselves…
I own both Japanese and Sam reissues, Sam is head and shoulders above Japanese version for the reasons others have mentioned. You must be the only one or one of the very few who places Japanese reissue over Sam’s. Weird.
Same sentiments here. Sam version simply sounds better, much better.
100% agree. Michael obviously didn't adjust for the fact, that the Jap. version is cut 6 dB louder (I measured it out) - and so seems to be more "powerfull", "punchy", "dynamic" etc. But it's not - it's just louder...
Do you plan to get the Big Bill Broonzy ‘Blues Singer albums that are released in very limited numbers by Sam Records as part of their artisan series, mastered and cut by KG? If yes, can we expect a video? Thanks.
The OG comparison is of course of interest. However, I would’ve liked to have heard more about the Sam release on its own merits. After all, the vast majority of us will not be listening with a comparative ear. Thank you though, Michael, I appreciate what you do.
Sam records have a Digital step , maybe thats why you dint like it as much.
Ich wünsche Allen ein hifeines 2024. Michael, du hast im Video die-aktuellen-Preise für das Original und die Japanische genannt, warum gehen dir die € 30,- plus €12,- P&V von SAM RECORDS nicht über die Lippen? Scheichwebung? Wohl kaum!
Das Original derart in den Klang/Dynamikhimmel zu heben finde ich auch witzig, die hat doch eh keiner mehr; ok, vllt. 5-6 Leute 😉 da macht es doch keinen Sinn, den Jazzern den Mund wässrig zu machen.
Ich habe die Scheibe heute bestellt und freu mich schon wie Schnitzel aufs Auflegen.
..........habe deinen Kanal soeben harpuniert, pardon, abonniert😁 und bin auf weitere, gute Videos gespannt.
Are you going to buy the Japanese reissue or keep an eye out for the original, even though you say it’s too expensive for you. I just bought the Japanese reissue.
Steve Evans (Perfect Vinyl Forever könnte Interessant sein er sagt das durch seine Behandlung die Platte wie das laquer klingt er benutzt Ultraschall bis 220KHz dadurch wird die Platte klingen wie nie zuvor!
Nice review. I would not be too quick to lay the blame on the tape. The sonic differences could have easily been the plating and pressing at the French pressing plant. Would have been interesting to see if similar sonic comments were reported had QRP or RTI pressed this title.
Crap, now I have to buy an original Danish pressing instead of a car.
LOL! Love your humor. Who would have thought we would compare records to a car? I remember going through record bins when then records were 50 cents. Just crazy.
Good evening, your comparison is funny. you half-heartedly criticize the reissue of samrecords when it is almost impossible to listen to the original. weird... it could have been a nice video but the criticism is not constructive at all
Upon reflection and hearing my Sam copy my friends, there is little doubt that an OG press sounds as Michael describes. It's not about being constructive or not, it's just what Michael hears, with his ears : ) I still highly recommend Sam's reissue which I predict will soon be sold out, and fetching index 300 vs. the fair price he is asking for a beautiful job done.
@@itsvladzino3246 I don't know about the original since I've never had/heard this - but I do have both the Japanese and Sam versions. And the Sam is better in any way (details, definition, air around the cymbals, control of the bass, sound balance etc.) - which might surprise a lot of people, who have seen Michaels comparison.
But he doesn't mention or compensate for the fact, that the Jap version is cut 6 dB louder than the Sam. And our hearing favors louder music over more silent (to a certain level).
So what is describes af more "powerfull" or "dynamic" simply comes from being "louder". Quantity confused with quality.
There is a video on my channel where you can see how much closer the Jap version is cut to the label - due to the higher level/wider grooves. That also gives higher inner groove distortion...
From Fred Thomas (Sam Records - been speaking to him) I know that Kevin Gray made the decision to cut this release more silent. Fred also confirmed my measuring of the level (6 dB) and of the dynamic (3 dB higher on the Sam release - difference between average and max sound level, so the Jap version is more compressed).
Michael does come up with some dubious statements, especially recently. I wonder if it's his ears 'getting old' or just a fatigue from 'pressings comparisons' instead of actually listening and enjoying the music itself. It feels like he hasn't sat down and enjoyed a record for its music, for some time now.
@@drazenbabich I noticed that too. But his channel was never about the music but more about 'audio fidelity' and A-B comparisons. How much will he be able to maintain that is anyone's guess, we all get old, age is age and it affects the ears and our listening abilities. He has amassed a huge collection of Jazz records, he should start talking about the music and content, not the "A sounds better than B".
Michel, my friend: Shihab (like Gordon, Drew, Jordan...), they were in Danmark, exiled in the 60s. Why? Michel, I have a dream: MOSAIC RECORD edits cheap and beautiful box sets of Jazz vinyls. Regards from Spain. Happy New...
I'll try to answer your question (I'm Danish and been living in Denmark all my lift - since 1959):
The danish society seems to be more relaxed and laid back (and in the 1950-90'ies also more open and tolerant to others) than many other societies. And we're also more informal and polite/discrete.
I think that a number of international/US jazz musicians found this environment less hostile than some places in the US (where there were race related things was going on).
The list of US - mainly black - musicians who lived here for several years are long (given Denmark had less than 5 mio. citizens in the '70ies): Dexter Gordon, Ben Webster, Kenny Drew, Idreese Sulieman, Horace Parlan, Ray Pitts, Sahib Shihab, Duke Jordan, Thad Jones (and Stan Getz for 2-3 years in the early '60ies).
This lifted the entire Danish jazz-scene to a higher, more international level, which we still thrive on today (several jazz-concert scenes, 3-4 jazz oriented record companies, a BIG jazz festival each summer etc.)
BTW: I have a review of the Sam release - and comparison with the Japanese version - on my channel.
The conclusion might surprise 🙂
@@Claus-CaptainPhoenixCorner
Ok, Captain, Oh my Captain!: our old Europe. Best regards from Madrid, Spain.
Happy New Year.
Apart from the sound quality I think the inclusion of that vocal bonus track was totally unnecessary.
I wonder who mastered the SAM records one? I looks like that KG just did the cutting this time around.
Is the OG pressing mono ?
Michael,
Will you still continue to buy from Sam Records now that it’s known all of their titles have been cut from digital?
Sam Records is a great label but part of this could be due to comparing a modern digital cut to an original analog cut. Notice that it’s says Remastered from OMT on one line and Cut by KG on the next line. It’s doubtful he cut it from tape…logistically shipping the tape from EU to US is impractical, just saying. I still like Sam Records.