First Mono Cartridge Impressions... What a Huge Surprise!
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- Опубліковано 31 бер 2024
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Hi Michael after watching your video as we have many original mono LPs EPs and singles from the 1950’s and 1960’s (I am 76 years old so this is my era!!}. I have bought an Ortofon 2m Mono cartridge for my Technics deck which arrived today. Wow what a revelation!!! A very different experience to my very 😅high end stereo cartridge on my Linn turntable. So together all the instruments are clear from high to low and a tightly centred cohesive image. Now I am enjoying my mono records properly.. they don’t sound right on the stereo cartridge !! I look forward to many hours listening to my old favourites.
I can't tell you how grateful I am to know this. Thanks Michael!
Surprise indeed and very useful as virtually all my mono LPs are modern reissues. I am finding that quite a lot of 60's music which was originally recorded in mono sounds better than the stereo version even when it was recorded at the same time. Possibly the engineers of the day hadn't got a lot of experience in stereo.
Sehr interessant! Vor ca. 20 Jahren habe ich damit ebenfalls angefangen, aufgrund des Kaufes einer 78er Plattensammlung. Mein EMT950 bot die Moeglichkeit mit den entsprechenden Tondosen (auch heute noch zu bekommen), diese entsprechend abzuspielen. Es ist unglaublich, was speziell solche 78er an Energie und Klangqualitaet bieten, speziell Schellacks aus den 50er Jahren. Dagegen klingen 33er m.E. wie eingeschlafene Fuesse.
Mit der Zeit wurde mir allerdings bewusst, dass das nur richtig und perfekt funktioniert, wenn man das auch konsequent MONO hoert, d.h. moeglichst mit EINER grossen, vintage JBL oder Klipsch etc. (in meinem Falle einem kleinen Quad ESL 57), die man in eine Ecke stellt, an eine Wand oder sogar, im besten Falle, etwas Entsprechendes in die Wand einbaut, damit man im Raum, wie vorgesehen, wie in einem Konzert in der Musik baden kann. Ein unglaubliches Erlebnis und eine Zeitreise.
Viel Spass weiterhin 👍
ganz genau, die Wand muss bei Mono ein Teil der Stereoanlage sein, sehe ich ganz genau so. Auch ein schöner großer Breitbänder und dann open Baffle ist für Mono keine schlechte idee. Oder wie du schon erwähnt hast sowas wie ein JBL Paragon ist mit seiner gebogenen Reflexionswand auch mega. Evtl bekommen wir den Michael ja sogar noch zum Selbstbau, man wird ja noch träumen dürfen... ;-)
Thanks Mike….very important detail!
Great information to help make the music we love more enjoyable. Thank you , Michael !
Some additional information about mono cartridges and recordings. First, Volker, in the previous mono video, talked about mono in the 50’s en the 60’s and the differences in grove width. In general there are no normal grove 33 or 45 rpm discs, only some special broadcasting discs, the discs Volker was talking about are 78 rpm shellac discs. All the ‘modern’ mono records are cut with so called micro grooves. So you can use all sorts of stylus profiles, but if you use records with surface scratches and plops, or clicks, a spherical stylus profile is in most cases the best. But a good quality disc can be played with elliptical or even a Shibata type stylus. Most so called mono cartridges have both channels connected together in the cartridge, by doing this the cartridge only respond to the horizontal movement of the stylus, hence mono. Although Ortofon stated this is better than a mono switch at your pre-amp, I think it comes very close and is a lot cheaper, if you have a pre-amp with this facility! If you have a mono switch at the pre-amp, also the noise of the phono amp or phono stage is reduced. There are also a few real mono cartridges, as far as I know, only a few types Ortofon SPU’s, they only respond to horizontal movements of the stylus, but are very rigged in the vertical plane, so playing stereo records with such a cartridge could damage the stereo disc. Check you supplier! Michael made a remark about the sound of recent mono recordings when played with a mono cartridge. My personal view on this; the mono is an afterthought, post processing of the stereo recording/mix. I think the making of proper mono recordings is an lost art, there aren’t people like Rudy van Gelder anymore.
There are several current manufacturers of "real" Mono cartridges besides Ortofon - Miyajima, Denon, Audio Technica, EMT. It is true regarding playing Stereo records in some cases, it depends whether the cartridge has sufficient compliance to safely track stereo grooves.
78’s have 3ml grooves, otherwise I agree with you. Miyajima Labs make true mono carts too.
Excellent observation and audiophile contribution.
mono is just beautiful, enjoy it!
Thank you for this review. It answers a lot of questions. I’ve been having about listening to my mono reissues. I guess I can save my money and time and just keep my current cartridge. Fascinating review. Thanks so much.
He’s wrong. New mono LPs do benefit from a mono cart. You can get some of the noise reduction benefit by using a mono switch with your stereo cart though.
@@sensational_cellar8606well I have no noise in my system at all from my turntable stereo or mono my phono stage is fully balanced and noise rejection is on another level when I connect cartridge with XLR cables have virtually no noise both stereo and mono and no hum at any volume level
Thanks for these thoughts. I manage a sound media lab (Hifi listening) at a university with 100k+ vinyl in our library, many original mono pressings, but we only have a stereo cartridge. I guess we need a mono turntable now too, we need to revisit the monos.
Great stuff Michael so happy Revolver & Rubber Soul & Pepper were some of your first mono experiences.
Love to hear your comparison between the recent mono Beatles cuts with your originals.
The key thing is a having the genuine original mono cuts,as new mono may be biased so stereo users can still enjoy.
Informative video Michael thanks for sharing and putting this out there ✊
Ciao Michael! I remember that I had recommended you to get a mono cartridge a couple of.years ago.... I'm very glad that you are part of this very small club now‼
Thanks for the post Michael. This isn't the first time I've heard that modern mono reissues likely did not employ mono cutting. I have only a couple of original monos, so this valuable information for me, and probably for many others.
Thank you for your vlog, very interesting and you confirmed some of my thoughts on modern release Mono records. I, like you have many original Mono pressings from the late 50`s and early sixties which were cut with a Mono cutting head and when I got a Mono cartridge it was amazing the difference from listening to them with a stereo cart. But listening to modern Mono with the Mono cart it wasn't the same, so I have always had that thought, even though these records might have been recorded in Mono it sounds like they have been cut with a stereo head.
Michael, congrats on the cart. From what I understand, a true mono cart will damage stereo records in playback. Mono carts that are made today can play stereo records no problem.
That being said, I simply have an external mono switch and the difference is night and day when playing mono records. Vocals are pushed forward a bit and bass is bigger. Cheers from the US.
Yes, you are right. In fact, it will damage BOTH the stereo records and the mono cart in the long run. DO NOT play stereo records with a mono cartridge!
@@TL3721 This is not always true. Vintage Mono cartridges with no vertical compliance would damage stereo records. Mono cartridges with vertical compliance can safely play stereo records, although it doesn't really make sense to play a stereo record with a mono cartridge.
@@chriss6302 Yep, I was just talking about the traditional mono carts without vertical compliance, which for me, is the whole point of using a mono cart.
There’s zero point in listening to mono albums without a mono cartridge truthfully. The improvement in fidelity is astounding.
Ohhh, ich freue mich schon so darauf über deine Erfahrungen in unseren nächsten Live Stream zu quatschen. Das wird spannend. ;-)
Hoffe ich auch
Really very interesting. Id love to hear what you have to say about some of your ERC true monos that you have on this setup
Just to update you Michael I have been going through some of my modern release mono Jazz records that I have previously played with a mono cart and have now played them with a stereo M.C. a vast improvement. It is like listening to mono recordings with a mono cart that have been cut with a mono head. Thank you for enhancing my HiFi experience.
Thanks for your channel. A true mono cartridge will not be able to play stereo records, the mono cartridge you have must be a stereo cartridge converted to mono. It is allways a matter of taste, but after my taste a reissued mono recording sounds better with a mono cartridge, the voices and the sound depth gets much more dimensional. I play my mono cartridge into a mono stepup but connected to a stereo phonostage. I think that using a mono phonostage will improve the sound from mono even further. As an example to my experience, I have the Beatles mono box set, and I never played it as I it sounded terrible on my stereo set up, so I did not quite understanded the hype. I listened to the Beatles mono set with my mono setup and for the first time I enjoyed the sound. When listening to a mono record with a mono cartridge, I cannot avoid to think about what we have learned with recorded sound for the past 70 years. The simplicify of mono much be an advantage when trying to play the grove from the records. I however think that especially clasical music play by big symphony orchestras sounds better on stereo, maybe because of the complexity of the music.
Hallo Michael, das freut mich sehr, deine Mono Erfahrungen kann ich nur teilen. Ich habe auf meinen Plattenspielern auch jeweils 2 Tonarme, einer mit einem SME3012 Ortofon Mono SPU. Damit höre ich schon seit Jahren und besonders gefallen mir die lten 50/60er Mono Jazz Originale, die ich von meinem Vater geerbt habe (großer Jazz Fan, ca 2500 Originals). Viel Spaß weiterhin...
I have some early Blue note monos and i find that the mono switch on my pre amp makes a difference. I love the cohesive sound i get from mono pressings.
Would love to see a video on your experience with the mono cart and first pressing blue notes.
In my teen years in the 70s I only got a mono record player which was valve with a garrard multi record stack! It sounded great playing stereo records! I never at the time considered I was missing out!
I prefer the stereo reissues though I will buy the mono when I have no choice. I do not have a mono cart at this time but have the switch on my preamp. I sometimes forget to switch it. Thanks again.
Could you do a further review on the Beatles original mono vs repress vs stereo with different cartridges? Great videos keep it up.
Interesting video. It's good that you have also issued some warnings. I have noticed that with mono records that are played with a stereo pickup, the stylus used has a not insignificant influence. Mono records played with a stereo cartridge with a MicroLine or Shibata stylus sound considerably better and different than those with an elliptical stylus. This is usually the case in normal stereo operation, but in my opinion the difference is even greater with mono records.
Interesting
Hi Michael, very interesting experience. It would be of great value to have Kevin Gray’s take on this and getting him to answer a few questions regarding the cutting procedure on mono reissues. Regards from Sweden
Dear Michael,Very interesting video. Definitely the big benefit of having two tonearms on one player as I would have a hard time buying a second high end player for using a mono cartridge. As being a huge Beatles fan myself, did you already compare the mentioned Rubber Soul or Revolver OG UK Monos with the 2014 Monos when played w/ the standard stereo cartridge?
Michael, in the comparison you made between the mono cartridge and the stereo cartridge, you used the same arms and cartridges made with the same manufacturer, technology, materials and time of use, but only differentiated by one reading mono modulation and the other reading modulation stereo?
I believe that this would be the condition to make a fair comparison.
Do you use 1 signal line ? Or both left and right on your stereo amp and speakers ? Or do you go down to one speaker ?
Michael, please play your 2014 Beatles Mono re-issues with your new Mono cart. vs your Stereo cart. and post your thoughts on the outcome. I seriously doubt Sean McGee used mono cutter geometry to cut the lacquers given pretty much everyone uses stereo cartridges these days.
I couldn't find a photo of a mono cutterhead that would fit the Neumann VMS 70 or 80. 82 is DMM
Side journey into mono must also include a mono bloc amp and single speaker. Maybe a classic Altec, Bozak, or JBL from the mono era.
I agree that the mono side journey ideally be done with a single speaker, but the effect of doing it with a two speaker stereo system is also quite good by creating a central phantom image. I have both setups and I think both are worth, regardless of using original mono pressings or reissues.My single mono setup is done with an Altec 604E speaker and a HH Scott 99C mono amp.
I think I told you this 2 years ago and many times in between, get a mono system. So you are finally there, good. I am a musician, I talked a lot to sound engineers and they told me that with mono you have no cancelation in the frequency spectrum. Whenever you have the chance to be in a studio, just switch the phase of a microphone, specially when the instrument is miked with two mikes. Just switch the phase on one and you know what I talk about, but don't wait another 2 years🙂 To play a stereo record with a mono cartridge? maybe your april fool........
Hi Michael,
think you made a mistake by comparing new records (mono or stereo) with your Mono-Cartridge vs. your Stereo-Cartridge.
As from your last video I got the info that your new Mono-C. has an 1mil Diamond. This is the one fitting old Mono-Grooves.
New Mono-Grooves are cut tighter - same like the Stereo-Records. Your 1mil will not fit.
To compare with your Stereo-C. you need a Mono-C. with the modern 0.7mil Diamond (same cut like your Stereo-C.).
Cheers
Stefan
You are exactly right . these new Mono releases are cut the same as a stereo just with a mono input. Mainly good for records that had strange stereo mixes like the Beatles revolver for just one example where vocals were on one side and instruments on the other than panned to center and things like that. Jefferson Aiplane Surealistic Pellow another example where people want the Mono. But like you said you need an original mono to use a mono cartridge. not a new mono pressing those will sound better with a stereo cartridge because thats how they are cut. I have quite a few 50s Albums in Mono like Peggy Lee and Dianna Washington Albums like those shine with a mono Cartridge. So all that to say your not only onto something you are right.
Welcome to the world of original mono
Great channel. But worth mention, all mono Beatles UK records after Beatles for Sale is cut with stereo head. Not saying they can not benefit from a mono cart even they are cut with stereo head. I will guess mostly all mono records on EMI are cut with stereo head after 1964.
I have about 3000 LPs, with about 90% in original mono (mostly hard bop from 55-63). The difference between a mono a stereo cart is stunning. I fully agree, the sound opens up. Most people honestly feel they are listening to stereo, as you get the beautiful sound stage.
To me, I think the main issue was that engineers (you too Rudy) didn’t really understand how to mix stereo until ~67
There’s no left-right information on a mono LP, so really there’s no soundstage as such.
@@sensational_cellar8606 agreed. All of the instruments are on top of each other. But they are much more cleanly hovering between the speakers than with a stereo cart. My guess is because the mono is ignoring the Z=(R-L)
@@williamschaefer7399 Yes, there is a notable solidity to mono played correctly.
@@sensational_cellar8606 More of a bloom that extends from the centre. It certainly has depth though on my system (Myajima Labs Zero)
Does your photostage offer RIAA curve changes and are dedicated Mono?
That can cause problems with modern mono pressings, makes them sound not as great as 60's monos.
I wonder that no one told you about that. It was the reason why I passed on a mono cartridge. Playing just the mono originals better needs quite a load of such records to make sense. And not rarely the stereo versions are better sounding anyway.
Sir - which was your first record you ever buy? :)
Isn't the mono stylus profile incorrect for playing stereo LP's? Is there any risk of damage to the LP?
There isn’t a mono stylus profile, as such. They can be comical, elliptical or any other profile just like a stereo cart uses. The stylus diameter can be different though if it’s made for early mono LPs. In the case it will be 1.0mil size, whereas stereo carts use 0.7mil. Mono carts made for modern mono LPs also use 0.7mil, the same as stereo carts. Either size will play a record fine but it’s best to choose the one which fits the groove best
Your mono cartridge is made for old mono records. Those have bigger groves so the needle is bigger, too.
Modern mono records have smaller groves like stereo records so those shouldn't be played with those bigger cartridges as it might damage them. There are mono cartridges for new records but I would recommend you use your stereo cartridge with a mono switch as that should give you more or less the same result.
It doesn't really matter that modern mono records are cut with stereo heads because both channels are cut with a 45° angle. If the stereo head cuts a mono signal you get more or less the same result you would get with a mono head.
So: Old records with the mono cartridge, new records with stereo cartridge and mono switch - the switch is important.
Now you should hunt down that UK Mono of Odessey & Oracle. Still looking……
Sorry if i missed it, but what Mono-cartridge you are using?
just watch the Video with Volker 3 days ago
Bob Dylan Mofi Monos ❤
Pretty simple to pick up a vintage receiver with a mono switch. No need to buy a mono set up.
Isn't it even damaging to a LP cut with a stereo head if you play it back with a real (not just rewired) mono cartridge?
Only if the mono cart doesn’t have any vertical compliance.
I feel as if we're assuming the mono cart and stereo cart are very similar. Which mono cart do you have? I'm assuming your stereo cart is a MC cart with a micro ridge stylus. Does your mono cart have the ability to resolve the same detail? The information IS there if it sounds better with the stereo cart. Perhaps your journey now needs to consider different mono cart variations - different widths, different stylus types.
is time to make mono amp and big speaker again (1 only)
😍
Favorite Alice Cooper album: Fools
I have two a turntables one (a Rega Planar 3) with a dedicated mono cartridge (a Ortofon 2M Mono Cart), and a second (another Rega Planar 3 - 50th anniversary ed.) with a dedicated stereo cartridge (a Rega Exact 2 MM phono cartridge). Now I'm sure that the stuffy, snooty audiophiles will snicker, cackle and will be dismissive by saying that this is nothing to be proud of; but those are what I currently own. Are you saying that based on your new "mono experience" that I should probably be better off playing my newly pressed mono records on the turntable with the stereo cartridge vs. the turntable with the mono cartridge?
Not trying to muddy the waters, but look up your mono cartridge. I think it's technically a summed stereo cart in terms of movement, too...AND it should be frickin' great with modern mono, and just fine with OG too.
@@dank.6942 I have no qualms with the sound that it delivers. Quite satisfied. My local hi-fi dealer recommended it to me at the price-point of $425. He said he was using one for years and was more than happy with it.
I have put a Mono SE replacement stylus in a 2M Mono body, and it got even better with modern mono reissues. You gain detail and keep most of the solidity you notice
I think the need for a mono cartridge is a little overkill to enjoying mono records Plus that means another turntable for the second cartridge I’ve been using a stereo cartridge and enjoying the mono records I own If you’ve got the money for all the extra cartridge and table that’s great but it’s a little overkill
Not so complicated with removable headsell and using the stereo and mono versions of the same line of cartridges of the same manufacturer.
I disagree that new mono records don’t benefit from a mono cart. The drop in background noise compared to using a stereo cart is huge. The use of a mono cutting head is over-rated.
Agreed. I switch between Ortofon 2M Black and 2M Mono SE. Both Shibata Stylus, and with Mono modern reissues such as Miles Davis Quintet Workin' from Craft / OJC. And it's much better with the Mono Cart
A lot of talk about mono vs stereo cutterheads without any explanation of the difference… or if the difference actually makes a difference in the shape of the groove from the same mono signal. For example, I very much doubt that the OG Beatles mono and stereo were cut with different cutterheads. I get the different widths of early to late mono, but a mono groove is a mono groove.
Hi Michael,
I seem to recall, in a past video, Volker saying that your mono cartridge was being custom made for you by Ortophon, to be a good match for your mono tonearm, and recently mentioned that it will be sized for modern microgroove records, which I think began in 1948.
Ortophon is one of the few who still make “true” mono cartridges, in that they are made to only track in a lateral motion, just like the cutting head is doing.
Ortophon had a special mono cartridge made to honor the release of the Beatles mono box, and they also still make a few other true mono cartridges as well.
One of the advantages of using a true mono cartridge is that it will not read any vertical groove information, thus making things quieter.
The reason your stereo record sounded poorly may be that your true mono cartridge is not reading the vertical grooves it would normally have.
Please compare your original mono Sgt. Pepper with your modern Beatles mono box copy.
Not true. Ortofon’s carts are not true mono despite what the tell us. The 2M Mono SE for example has vertical compliance necessitating very careful azimuth alignment to avoid the generation of spurious vertical signals, as it still has the twin coils like the rest of the 2M series, so is not a true single-coil mono generator. Also, a mono cart doesn’t need to read the vertical movements of a stereo LP in order to play all the information as the grooves are specified in a sum and difference principal. lateral groove motion = channels A + B, and vertical groove motion = channel A -B. It’s not the case that each dimension is a specific channel ie. Left channel for vertical, right channel for lateral.
@@sensational_cellar8606
thanks, I wasn’t aware.
I have an EMT tmd 15 cart, I haven’t been able to use yet, which is said to be a true mono, I can try to confirm that with EMT.
Why do you think, then, that Michael is unhappy using his mono cart. with the stereo record?
@@michaelmerinar8355 Is it part of the new EMT range or the older one? I contacted EMT earlier this year asking some questions and they told me that their current mono carts output signal to both channels. I think this just means we don’t need a mono switch in the system but the cart is still a true mono single coil generator. Cheers
@@sensational_cellar8606
Hi,
Thanks for the EMT info. -It’s the older, so called “nude”, model.
I do have a mono switch, which comes in handy when I play the mono playback cuts on my Donovan compilation album.
If not switched, any sibilants get spread out to both channels.
@@sensational_cellar8606
Thanks for the EMT information.
I have the older model, in the so-called “nude” construction.
I do have a mono switch, which is useful when playing the mono cuts on my Donovan compilation.
If unused, any sibilants get unevenly spread across both channels.
mono
I'm quite amazed that it took you so long to actually hear mono records through a mono cartridge. You can't listen to mono records in any other way. I wouldn't even begin to review a mono record in any other way.
Mono cartridge on a stereo Alice cooper record = April Fools
April Fools ?
We’ll played April Fools joke. Such sincerity! Oscar worthy performance.😂
Well after the legalization of cannabis all music would sound better 😂😅
Hi Michael, my syspicion is, that you are using a mono wired cartridge and not a real mono pickup which allows for lateral stylus-movement only. "Real" mono pickups will damage stereo records! Same is true for modern mono pressings being produced with a stereo cutting head. To my experience you only get the most out of vintage mono recordings when you use a true mono pick up which allows only for lateral movement of the stylus (improved dynamics, lower noise floor, more of the music being right there in front of you). BUT: playing back a record which has been cut with a stereo cutting (no matter if it says stereo or mono) will almost certainly damage your record. There is a bunch of affordable very good real mono cartridges out there, it is defnitely worth to give it a try!
Why should a mono LP cut with a stereo cutting head be damaged by a mono cart with no vertical compliance as the vertical groove is devoid of signal? Also, a cartridge which has some vertical compliance doesn’t mean it converts that motion into signal.
to my knowledge a stereo cutting head alsways cuts in an angle of 45° / -45° relativ to the surface of the record, even if its fed with a mono signal. So you always will end up with horizontal and vertical components of the movement of the tip "reading" the groove.
@@Mono_Stereo007 That’s not correct though. When a mono signal is fed to a stereo cutting head, the horizontal channel contains the sum of two identical mono input channels, whilst the vertical channel contains the difference between the two input channels (ie cancelling them out), which equals zero signal for the cutter to move vertically with. The vertical component of the finished LP will contain only background groove noise/roar in this case. Use of a stereo cartridge will mean this noise is heard but a mono switch will eliminate it. Which I’ve demonstrated to guests numerous times. A true mono cartridge - with a single coil generator (which cannot turn vertical movements into signal) and a stylus without vertical compliance will not encounter any deleterious effects from the use of a stereo cutter head. A single coil mono cart which has some vertical compliance will also not read any vertical signal in this case, but does allow the user to play stereo LPs safely with a mono cart, and is a safe choice to play later post-‘67 (approx) mono LPs with just to be sure.
although a commonly held belief.... that is 100% incorrect, a mono record made with a stereo cutting head results in a mono record.
Love ya Michael, but you are confusing many issues here…
I can't believe how someone who has been reviewing mono albums for years has only now discovered Columbus's Egg 👎👎👎
Must be April Fools because he is so completely wrong he appears to be stupid which we know he isn’t. If you play a stereo LP with a TRUE mono cartridge it will scream as it has no vertical compliance. If you use a stereo cartridge summed to mono as maybe he did it will never sound as good as a true mono cartridge. This whole video is really embarrassing as we know all mono LP’s be they original or re-issues sound far superior with a true mono cartridge.