Seems like Herters is loaded for Cabela's/BassPro by Winchester now. From a quick read it looks like Winchester took over production from Sellior&Beloit and the Herters brand is loaded in the USA. The only loading I could find for 12ga was a 2 3/4in 1.5oz load of #9 TSS loaded to 1200fps. And that was through Cabela's and BassPro, but BassPro offers free shipping over $50.00 so that seems like the better deal
Great video! Thank you! I have this same gun and the choke that came with the gun didn’t pattern the way I wanted it to so I’m going to pick me up a .670
Awesome information. I used some TSS on pheasants last year. Primarily my 3rd or 4th shot after Boss loads. I need to pattern some as you did, but I know it's devastating ammo. My longest shot estimated about 55 yards. It is amazing, as you are! Thank you
Great video George! I read an OL article that quoted someone from Apex saying that the Indian Creek Black Diamond Chokes are the best through all of their testing, for Apex turkey ammo.
That would depend on what work you have done to your shotgun . If you've had your forcing cone lengthened and keep your barrel polished to a mirror finish, you'd be surprised at what some chokes are capable of. I've got a 20ga with some barrel work and a Rectifier .560 Diamond series choke and your jaw would drop at the patterns I get with some tss #9 loads.
Great stuff, definitely thought the muller would come out on top but the carlsons are winning me over! Would love to see you test the muller ufo on your pro waterfowl with the boss loads!!
The Muller UFO has about 43 thou constriction, so it's not as tight as the others. It's not surprising as it was designed as a waterfowl choke and to tolerate any size of steel shot. That is where it offers its biggest advantage.
@@mrsmith9079 Well, I have another test coming with another turkey load and the Muller actually was the #1 choke. So it definitely has some chops for turkey hunting. I do plan to test it with waterfowl ammo as well.
I would argue that it was the best pattern in this test depending on what you’re looking for. According to the metrics he measured, no it wasn’t. But… if you were looking for the most evenly distributed pattern, that gave you room for error at close range, and had a good pattern well beyond 40yards. IMO it was the best.
Great video as usual. I never heard of No 9 for turkey hunting. I think in MD you must use 4,5 or 6 shots. I have some old Remington SP 2x4 and 2x6 that I got in early 1990. I wonder if they are still good.
Thanks! So even for tungsten loads you can't go smaller than 6s? We have a limit at #4 but they can be as small as you want. Alot of folks hunt turkeys with lead #7.5, which work great inside of 30 yards.
One point to bear in mind when looking at patterns; No pattern is ever truly "even" - pellet distribution follows a bivariate normal distribution (one each for x and y). With this in mind, every pattern will be core dense to a greater or lesser extent, as that is the nature of the normal distribution. There is no truly "even "pattern, as it would require pellets to be distributed according to a bivariate uniform distribution.
Swore I'd never pay for TSS, but picked up a box 20ga. a year ago because a store had them for $32 and everywhere else was $50 - should have bought every box they had!
Oh man, that happened to me once with Winchester Long Beard, 50% off going out of business sale at a store, I bought more ammo than I thought I'd ever shoot. And then I started a UA-cam channel. It's pretty much all gone now!
@@TheNewHuntersGuide On one hand IF you can find it, you’d better buy the ammo in this day and age. But on the other hand, I’d hate to think I deprived someone else from enjoying a Turkey hunt (especially a youth or first timer) so I generally buy just 1 or 2 boxes.
Great work and info as usual. Maybe I’m weird (and cheap 😊)but would be really curious to see how TSS patterns out of improved/mod/full choke. I wonder how big the deviation would really be from say improved choke vs the much tested Turkey choke type constrictions?
@@TheNewHuntersGuide Seems to me like the TSS hunters go really tight on constriction due to smaller (9’s, 9.5, or even 10) shot sizes? I’ll be trying to pattern lead Turkey loads soon and I’m leaning initially towards full/x-tra full-but we shall see. Choke sizing is so random between manufacturers, and I only have so much cabbage I’m willing to throw at various choke sizes/brands.
Aren’t more than 90 percent of all turkeys taken at under 30 yards? I read that somewhere. If that’s true, that combination would potentially be over choked and would increase the odds of missing at say 25 yards. Sometimes, it seems ammo is looking to solve a problem that doesn’t actually exist in most cases
In your 940 24", exactly which tube and size would you use for the Boss #9s and which tube and size for the Boss #7s? I have the newly purchased same gun, and after yiur vids, will be ordering whichever yiu recommend? Thanks for the great reviews and I'm newly suscribed
Thanks so much! As of all my testing thus far, I would go with a choke that is about 0.670. That seems to provide the most consistent results. Though every gun is different a 0.665 or 0.675 may be better for some folks.
@@joeculbertson2016 Carlsons. The Muller chokes do not come with constriction figures. The Muller choke may be just as good or better but they don't have constriction printed on them. The UFO has been working great for me though.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide Is the Carlson's 19893 tube the .670 you refer to? The TSS listings are much tighter. This one is listed under their regular extended choke tubes
@@joeculbertson2016 That is exactly the one. I did just get a TSS choke but haven't tested it yet. Though BOSS has said do not use something that tight, those chokes were created for Federal TSS.
In MY 20ga Boss shoots good enough to kill turkeys but Apex had more pellets in kill zone. Tried couple different chokes same results. But I’ve killed turkeys with both. Haven’t tried any Boss other than 20ga
WHAT CONSTRICTIONS WERE THE CARSON TURKEY CHOKES YOU DIDN'T SAY IMPORTANT FACT. ALSO YOU LIST TWO CARLSON'S ON YOUR CHART BOTH THE SAME OR DIFFERENT??? THE RESULTS BIG DIFFERENCE. THX
@@TheNewHuntersGuide Why were the results on the lowest Carlson's on your chart so different with the lowest count? Sorry doing this from memory. Did you do something different I can't remember 77 yrs old and still hunting Turkeys.
@@DEVILDOG1964 Nope, didn't change a thing. Just changed choke tubes and took the shots. This ammo didn't like the tighter constriction. Most TSS does not like anything tighter than 0.665, it blows out the patterns.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide thx for the clarification I see one was a UFO muller the other with an old boss Tom shell with the muller choke tube. The older boss Tom seems to have fewer pellets to begin with. Please start testing 20 ga loads. With TSS the 20 is the new 12 lots of us are switching and your tests are the best and most definitive!!!
Regarding the Indian Creek choke & Apex following. Indian Creek Black Diamond Strike Turkey Chokes were extending good pattern ranges long before TSS become popular. Indian Creek choke tubes were known for doing very well with smaller shot sizes (Hevi-13 & copper plated lead). If someone already has an Indian Creek choke on their shotgun, they are most likely not going to find a better choke for TSS loads. I haven't shot a bird with a TSS load yet, but all my birds have been harvested with an Indian Creek choke the past 15 years or so. I have patterned some TSS loads, & I find no reason to try another choke. If anything, I think the patterns are too tight. It would be easier to miss at close range with TSS. You better aim & know where your gun shoots. The best turkey load company is probably "THE NITRO COMPANY AMMUNITION". They will tell you which of their loads (TSS, Hevi-shot, Copper plated lead, etc..) shoots best out of a particular gun & choke combination. I haven't tried their stuff, but their website "recommendations" are quite impressive. There's nothing wrong with being content with more affordable Winchester Longbeard loads, too. As long as you know what your gun can do & stay within that range, that's what's really important!
Hey thank you so much for the input! I tried to get an Indian Creek Black Diamond Strike Turkey Choke for testing and I could find or order one to fit my shotgun anywhere. I even contacted the company and no luck.
Brother you need to keep your head down on the gun when you shoot. You’ve got a cheek weld but as soon as you shoot pull your head up. In any shooting you can do anything, (not that I recommend that) if you do it consistently, you can adjust for accuracy. The problem is when you’re inconsistent. Pulling your head up as you shoot ,if mistimed, will throw your shot. Not a best case scenario. Be advised.
You don't know the half of it. I shot several of these videos the same day, I was black and blue for 3 weeks after. Eventually I started rolling up a heavy beanie and putting it between the gun and my shoulder. I couldn't put my cheek on the stock anymore because it was so beat up from taking so many of these heavy shots. There is nothing anyone can learn from my shooting form in this run of videos that's for sure. It was all for science.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide Brother you do it every video I’ve come across. Just something you wanna consider. Another issue, we don’t want to practice bad habits and ingrain that into muscle memory. Take a break if you need it. Your channel implies it helps new hunters right? Teach them that. Know when too much is counterproductive. Hope this isn’t taken as anything but constructive help
My only wish is I would have started hunting Turkey's 20 years earlier! Never dreamed I'd like Turkey hunting more than Whitetail, or Squirrel, or Pheasant, or Dove, or Rabbit.
I've tried, multiple times, my gun and constriction were always out of stock. I even went right to the company and asked if they can find me one, and they couldn't.
Holy crap tss loaded up in 12 ga !!! How could you miss ? Or why would you want that big of an advantage over a bird ! I thought tss in a 20ga load was already borderline cheating 😅😂
Yea this video made me realize Apex has a cult following with Indian Creek. I hope to get one in the future. I reached out to see if the company would loan me one for testing but no reply.
Thanks for all you do for shooter's.
Thanks for watching!
The recoil looks pretty fierce on those. Thank you for testing them for us!
Oh man, it really is. 1 or 2 shots is fine. But I shot 4 videos that day. The black and blue I've been carrying around for a week is unbelievable.
I noticed Herters has TSS loadings now. Would be interesting to see how they shoot being around $50 a box.
I haven't seen those yet! But I would definitely like to test them.
Made by Federal? Or is it Remington, which is owned by Federal now?
Seems like Herters is loaded for Cabela's/BassPro by Winchester now. From a quick read it looks like Winchester took over production from Sellior&Beloit and the Herters brand is loaded in the USA.
The only loading I could find for 12ga was a 2 3/4in 1.5oz load of #9 TSS loaded to 1200fps. And that was through Cabela's and BassPro, but BassPro offers free shipping over $50.00 so that seems like the better deal
@@GrayF0x3813 I bet that is a mean load. 1.5 oz of TSS is plenty.
For 20 gauge, I watched a Herters #9 hammer one in Oklahoma last month at 53 yards. I imagine they will do just fine in a 12, too.
Great video! Thank you! I have this same gun and the choke that came with the gun didn’t pattern the way I wanted it to so I’m going to pick me up a .670
Interestingly, the stock choke pattern great for me with lead, still wish they would have given us something a little better and more usable with TSS.
WOW 🤩, Awesome pattern test.
Thanks so much!
Awesome information. I used some TSS on pheasants last year. Primarily my 3rd or 4th shot after Boss loads. I need to pattern some as you did, but I know it's devastating ammo. My longest shot estimated about 55 yards. It is amazing, as you are! Thank you
Thanks so much! Oh yea, this stuff with a turkey choke would kill anything that fly's at probably 80 yards. Its unbeleivable.
Great video George! I read an OL article that quoted someone from Apex saying that the Indian Creek Black Diamond Chokes are the best through all of their testing, for Apex turkey ammo.
Yea, I tried multiple times to buy one for my shotgun and never could find one in stock. I even contacted the company. They couldn't even get me one.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide I just got one at MidwayUSA for the Mossberg!
@curtisturner9327 what constriction?
That would depend on what work you have done to your shotgun .
If you've had your forcing cone lengthened and keep your barrel polished to a mirror finish, you'd be surprised at what some chokes are capable of.
I've got a 20ga with some barrel work and a Rectifier .560 Diamond series choke and your jaw would drop at the patterns I get with some tss #9 loads.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide .660, it patterns great with Apex 3” number 9 shot.
I appreciate the video. Thanks so much.
Thank you!
That Mossberg seems to have one hell of a kick.
These shells have a brutal kick. I ran the ballistic numbers; they are more than a 300 Win Magnum. Alot more.
Great stuff, definitely thought the muller would come out on top but the carlsons are winning me over! Would love to see you test the muller ufo on your pro waterfowl with the boss loads!!
It's coming! Next week week is the BOSS Tom!
The Muller UFO has about 43 thou constriction, so it's not as tight as the others. It's not surprising as it was designed as a waterfowl choke and to tolerate any size of steel shot. That is where it offers its biggest advantage.
@@mrsmith9079 Well, I have another test coming with another turkey load and the Muller actually was the #1 choke. So it definitely has some chops for turkey hunting. I do plan to test it with waterfowl ammo as well.
I would argue that it was the best pattern in this test depending on what you’re looking for. According to the metrics he measured, no it wasn’t. But… if you were looking for the most evenly distributed pattern, that gave you room for error at close range, and had a good pattern well beyond 40yards. IMO it was the best.
Great video as usual. I never heard of No 9 for turkey hunting. I think in MD you must use 4,5 or 6 shots. I have some old Remington SP 2x4 and 2x6 that I got in early 1990. I wonder if they are still good.
Thanks! So even for tungsten loads you can't go smaller than 6s? We have a limit at #4 but they can be as small as you want. Alot of folks hunt turkeys with lead #7.5, which work great inside of 30 yards.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide Thanks again for the information. Are you by any chance in the North East or NY area?
@@nasserkuzbari2205 Western PA actually.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide I hope will meet one day. Please keep making videos like that one. All the best.
@@nasserkuzbari2205 Thanks! More are on the way!
One point to bear in mind when looking at patterns;
No pattern is ever truly "even" - pellet distribution follows a bivariate normal distribution (one each for x and y).
With this in mind, every pattern will be core dense to a greater or lesser extent, as that is the nature of the normal distribution. There is no truly "even "pattern, as it would require pellets to be distributed according to a bivariate uniform distribution.
Yes. Practically looking at it, I do not want to see gaps in the core of the pattern or around the core edges.
Same video with longbeards?
Already recorded it! It's coming!
Swore I'd never pay for TSS, but picked up a box 20ga. a year ago because a store had them for $32 and everywhere else was $50 - should have bought every box they had!
Oh man, that happened to me once with Winchester Long Beard, 50% off going out of business sale at a store, I bought more ammo than I thought I'd ever shoot. And then I started a UA-cam channel. It's pretty much all gone now!
@@TheNewHuntersGuide On one hand IF you can find it, you’d better buy the ammo in this day and age. But on the other hand, I’d hate to think I deprived someone else from enjoying a Turkey hunt (especially a youth or first timer) so I generally buy just 1 or 2 boxes.
Great work and info as usual. Maybe I’m weird (and cheap 😊)but would be really curious to see how TSS patterns out of improved/mod/full choke. I wonder how big the deviation would really be from say improved choke vs the much tested Turkey choke type constrictions?
That is a great question! But an expensive one to answer lol. I might try it with lead ammo instead lol.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide Seems to me like the TSS hunters go really tight on constriction due to smaller (9’s, 9.5, or even 10) shot sizes?
I’ll be trying to pattern lead Turkey loads soon and I’m leaning initially towards full/x-tra full-but we shall see. Choke sizing is so random between manufacturers, and I only have so much cabbage I’m willing to throw at various choke sizes/brands.
@@teamflanneloutdoors5631 I know! I wish I could have tested 5 more brands and 3 more chokes but the costs multiply!
Not a turkey hunter but that tss is impressive! God bless you and go get them in the marsh!
Thanks Jeff, its never too late to start!
@@TheNewHuntersGuide that's all I need is another habit lol, I will be after snow geese until mid April
would you give a review on Huglu over under shotgun
I probably could, if I had access to one.
You you can’t shoot steel shot thru the stock choke on a Mossberg 940 Pro Turkey? 🤔 🤔 🤔
That is what Mossberg said. Lead only. It doesn't make any sense.
Aren’t more than 90 percent of all turkeys taken at under 30 yards? I read that somewhere. If that’s true, that combination would potentially be over choked and would increase the odds of missing at say 25 yards. Sometimes, it seems ammo is looking to solve a problem that doesn’t actually exist in most cases
Just wait until my video this Thursday!
Yeah right, go try it on educated birds and then tell me about those 30yd shots😂
In your 940 24", exactly which tube and size would you use for the Boss #9s and which tube and size for the Boss #7s? I have the newly purchased same gun, and after yiur vids, will be ordering whichever yiu recommend? Thanks for the great reviews and I'm newly suscribed
Thanks so much! As of all my testing thus far, I would go with a choke that is about 0.670. That seems to provide the most consistent results. Though every gun is different a 0.665 or 0.675 may be better for some folks.
UFO or Carlsons? Mine came with a Carlsons, not the XFactor
@@joeculbertson2016 Carlsons. The Muller chokes do not come with constriction figures. The Muller choke may be just as good or better but they don't have constriction printed on them. The UFO has been working great for me though.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide Is the Carlson's 19893 tube the .670 you refer to? The TSS listings are much tighter. This one is listed under their regular extended choke tubes
@@joeculbertson2016 That is exactly the one. I did just get a TSS choke but haven't tested it yet. Though BOSS has said do not use something that tight, those chokes were created for Federal TSS.
tss at 40yards ... 60 yards minimum so you can chase turkey but not at 40yards, thx for all your vidéo.
Thanks!
You should really clean your barrel between shots it’s makes a considerable difference in my pattern your gun may perform different just a suggestion
I'd rather test it like most people will use it in the field. Cleaning between shots is more work than most people will do.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide that’s true
BOSS MAKES THE BEST turkey loads for the best price.
Wait till next week!
In MY 20ga Boss shoots good enough to kill turkeys but Apex had more pellets in kill zone. Tried couple different chokes same results. But I’ve killed turkeys with both. Haven’t tried any Boss other than 20ga
@@heathalford4721 mine is insane at 40yd 180 in the kill zone.
@@heathalford4721 kill zone meaning 10" circle
@@TheNewHuntersGuide looking forward to it.
Keep up the good content and don’t stop wearing your “Ray Charles” shooting glasses.
Thanks! I actually stepped on them the same day I shot this video... So they are no more. Working to find a suitable replacement.
Checkout Haven sunglasses. Bought a pair at a bass pro in Florida years ago, and have been ordering online ever since. Good bang for the buck👍
@@teamflanneloutdoors5631 Thanks!
WHAT CONSTRICTIONS WERE THE CARSON TURKEY CHOKES YOU DIDN'T SAY IMPORTANT FACT. ALSO YOU LIST TWO CARLSON'S ON YOUR CHART BOTH THE SAME OR DIFFERENT??? THE RESULTS BIG DIFFERENCE. THX
Hi thanks, the Carlsons turkey is .670 and the carlsons long beard is .660.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide Why were the results on the lowest Carlson's on your chart so different with the lowest count? Sorry doing this from memory. Did you do something different I can't remember 77 yrs old and still hunting Turkeys.
@@DEVILDOG1964 Nope, didn't change a thing. Just changed choke tubes and took the shots. This ammo didn't like the tighter constriction. Most TSS does not like anything tighter than 0.665, it blows out the patterns.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide thx for the clarification I see one was a UFO muller the other with an old boss Tom shell with the muller choke tube. The older boss Tom seems to have fewer pellets to begin with. Please start testing 20 ga loads. With TSS the 20 is the new 12 lots of us are switching and your tests are the best and most definitive!!!
@@DEVILDOG1964 Thanks so much! I just need to get a 20 gauge.
Regarding the Indian Creek choke & Apex following. Indian Creek Black Diamond Strike Turkey Chokes were extending good pattern ranges long before TSS become popular. Indian Creek choke tubes were known for doing very well with smaller shot sizes (Hevi-13 & copper plated lead). If someone already has an Indian Creek choke on their shotgun, they are most likely not going to find a better choke for TSS loads. I haven't shot a bird with a TSS load yet, but all my birds have been harvested with an Indian Creek choke the past 15 years or so. I have patterned some TSS loads, & I find no reason to try another choke. If anything, I think the patterns are too tight. It would be easier to miss at close range with TSS. You better aim & know where your gun shoots. The best turkey load company is probably "THE NITRO COMPANY AMMUNITION". They will tell you which of their loads (TSS, Hevi-shot, Copper plated lead, etc..) shoots best out of a particular gun & choke combination. I haven't tried their stuff, but their website "recommendations" are quite impressive. There's nothing wrong with being content with more affordable Winchester Longbeard loads, too. As long as you know what your gun can do & stay within that range, that's what's really important!
Hey thank you so much for the input! I tried to get an Indian Creek Black Diamond Strike Turkey Choke for testing and I could find or order one to fit my shotgun anywhere. I even contacted the company and no luck.
Brother you need to keep your head down on the gun when you shoot. You’ve got a cheek weld but as soon as you shoot pull your head up.
In any shooting you can do anything, (not that I recommend that) if you do it consistently, you can adjust for accuracy. The problem is when you’re inconsistent.
Pulling your head up as you shoot ,if mistimed, will throw your shot. Not a best case scenario. Be advised.
You don't know the half of it. I shot several of these videos the same day, I was black and blue for 3 weeks after. Eventually I started rolling up a heavy beanie and putting it between the gun and my shoulder. I couldn't put my cheek on the stock anymore because it was so beat up from taking so many of these heavy shots. There is nothing anyone can learn from my shooting form in this run of videos that's for sure. It was all for science.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide
Brother you do it every video I’ve come across. Just something you wanna consider. Another issue, we don’t want to practice bad habits and ingrain that into muscle memory. Take a break if you need it. Your channel implies it helps new hunters right? Teach them that. Know when too much is counterproductive. Hope this isn’t taken as anything but constructive help
I bet those shells kick like a mule 👍👍
The first couple aren't bad. But then by the end of the day, doing 3 videos with 20 shells, it's brutal.
I don't even hunt turkeys yet here i am
It's a great season to start!
My only wish is I would have started hunting Turkey's 20 years earlier! Never dreamed I'd like Turkey hunting more than Whitetail, or Squirrel, or Pheasant, or Dove, or Rabbit.
Get an Indian Creek and try it you will be surprised
I've tried, multiple times, my gun and constriction were always out of stock. I even went right to the company and asked if they can find me one, and they couldn't.
Holy crap tss loaded up in 12 ga !!!
How could you miss ?
Or why would you want that big of an advantage over a bird !
I thought tss in a 20ga load was already borderline cheating 😅😂
To bad no Indian Creek choke
Yea this video made me realize Apex has a cult following with Indian Creek. I hope to get one in the future. I reached out to see if the company would loan me one for testing but no reply.
Indian Creek .670 would have beat them all but you wouldn't know it because you didn't test it.
It is not as if I had one in the drawer and just didn't feel like using it lol. What makes the Indian Creek .670 better than the .670 tested here?