We need a duck hunting safety and first aid episode. Last year while hunting public land I took a pellet from another hunter l while kayaking out to go get my ducks I had to kayak my way to the boat ramp(45mins) so I could get ems.
I had a Muller choke tube get stuck in the gun barrel. A gunsmith ruined it when he removed it. I met Jimmy Muller and he replaced it at no cost to me. He went way out of his way to be more than fair to me. He’s also an interesting guy to talk to.
@@John-uo1qfthanks for this tip i got a Stoeger M3500 Waterfowl and it came with some chokes the full choke was a full black choke came super greased up
I don’t know how some of those companies havnt been sued for false advertisement! I usually just stick with factory tubes because I never believe any of the advertising bs, and figured gun manufacturers did plenty of research when developing there own tubes. And since I don’t have the resources to buy several chokes and ammo and targets I just test ammo not chokes. I really appreciate your dedication to teaching, learning and testing. Not all hero’s wear capes buddy! Keep up the great work. Your like the project farm of hunting world!
Jimmy Muller stands behind his products too. I had one of his tubes that got stuck in a barrel. The gunsmith damaged the tube while removing it. I met with jimmy because he wanted to see the tube and he replaced it for me free of charge on the spot. To me that was going above and beyond.
i use Muller in my O/U for sporting clays. They are phenomenal! Like you I patterned my gun with the factory tubes vs. Muller, it was no contest. I use his feather-light light competition tubes
I went to the muller choke tube this past season with boss shells and wow! After nearly 30 years of duck hunting and multiple choke tubes, this was the first combination that I’ve ever shot that made a noticeable difference. I’m never going back to anything else.
This is one of the most well thought out and put together informational duck hunting videos I’ve ever seen. Been in the game almost 30 years now and this info is solid. Very very well done sir. And of course as you discovered, Jimmy Muller is a beauty. Heck of a guy, world class shot, and makes one fine product.
Yet another video where you probably make a few fanboys shed some tears lol. I’ve been looking at the Muller chokes, you have officially convinced me to give them a try.
Thanks for another great video Joel. I’ve been doing my own research over the past 10 years and have come to the exact same conclusion. I live at 4500 ft in Idaho and shoot a Carlson Mobil extended IC (actually .717”) for 70% of the season and was surprised that I was getting excellent patterns to 45 yards regardless of temperature/air density at 4500ft. I use a NP MR Cremator (actually .712”) the last bit of the season or when hunting strictly geese. The thinner air sure makes patterns stay together better than when I lived at sea level. Also don’t see any benefit from going tighter than LM with steel most of the time. I really Like Mullers but they are just a little too rich for my blood for a small increase over my Carlsons. God bless you and your family 👍🏻
Thanks Joel for another informative addition to your shotgun series. I've been shooting Jimmy's H20 tubes in my Beretta 400 Lite and old Remington Wingmaster for the last 4 years and I concur with your findings.I've been shooting the Carlson in the Affinity 20 and it's proven to be a lethal pattern. Jimmy said he's coming out with an h2o for the Benelli SBE3 28 later this year. Thanks again for all you do and Happy Easter!
Been shooting Muller exclusively in a Benelli for 10 years. Just added a Beretta A400 Xtreme Plus & the first thing I did was get a set of Muller chokes for it before even shooting it. 🤣 I also shoot them in my O/U for skeet, sporting & trap.
I have Muller in my skeet and sporting clays 725 Browning. Fantastic. My duck chokes are in the mail. Off to the pattern board. Your earlier video on patterns convinced me to seek out Muller and I am glad I did. Further Tom Roster an expert on shot shells recommends them!
I shot the muller chokes last year with the 3/5 blend boss. Worked great for me. After researching chokes it seemed muller had them figured out the best and your research proved that was true. Such an awesome informative video👍🏻
Another amazing video in this series Joel! Your dedication to understanding the intricacies of shotgunning is unreal! Love to see you calling our some of the gimmicks in the choke industry as well, I'd love to know how many ported vs non-ported waterfowl chokes are sold every year
I'm fairly new to shotguns but it's easy to tell that you have years of experience behind you, along with a passion for this all. It makes for an entertaining and exceptionally informative video. I appreciate what you do sir, and the attitude you do it with.
So some choke companies have been selling bs. And others are working to give the best product. I think we knew this but to see someone test it is refreshing.
Those müller tubes are no joke, Joel. I started shooting them in 2021 and they live up to the hype. Easily the most consistent shooting choke tube I’ve ever screwed in. I use the passing 85% of the time and UFO the other 15%.
Done a lot of research myself, from what I could tell those Muller's made a lot of sense. Especially after seeing the other tests you've run and starting to understand the physics of it. I also love that they have a 60 day trial period.
Absolutely fantastic... my partner and I took time during our Waterfowl season and some pattern testing with different shells but with our favorite extended aftermarket choke tubes. The results were flabbergasting. Definitely need to take the time to research or you're ot helping yourself.
Outstanding work, Joel. I know I’m not alone and wishing somebody had already done this kind of testing and analysis. This video confirmed a lot of what I suspected, with a healthy dose of surprises thrown in as well.
I'm not a waterfowl hunter but a clay target shooter/shotgun nerd. Thanks for putting out the great videos and info you do! The amount of work you've put into them really shows. I've patterned my competition guns and have swapped the factory tubes for light mod Teague extended tubes. I went with the Teague tubes over others due to their reputation and also I was able to get titanium in order to pull a little weight out of the front end of the gun.
Good video I’ve tried a couple different choke tube for waterfowling over the years. For my Benelli SBE2 and now my M2 I actually achieved the best patterns with my factory Crio choke tubes. (Still use a Carlson.660 for lead turkey loads) If you really want a tight steel choke then use the II notch Benelli crio choke tube. I know Benelli doesn’t recommend it but I have been doing it for years on BB and smaller shot. But you better be on target because it’s pretty tight. In fact imo I think most hunters are not as good of shot as they think they are and would benefit more from a more open choke tube instead of a tighter one.
Man all I’ve got to say is wow. You really opened my eyes to what shot does & how choke tubes actually work! For years I always thought a ported tube was better than a non ported tube. I’ll be buying some muller chokes soon and hope it performs good with boss!
I started researching choke tubes in 2010. I 100% agree on Carlson and Muller tubes. You need to measure barrel I.D. on every gun you put a choke in. If you are a really serious shooter or hunter you need to conceder reaming forcing cones. It takes the flyers out of the pattern .
I just turned 50 and bought myself an over O/U 20 guage. I couldn't be happier. Low recoil, no stress. It came with 5 chokes. I haven't bought a turkey choke yet but from the group's I'm getting I'm just going to stick with the full choke and a modified for close.👍
I just go with Trulock blackened stainless steel and ported extended chokes. Improved modified and improved cylinder. Why ported? I shoot a Browning Feather 725 12 gauge with 26 inch barrels and it weighs just 6 pounds and 7 ounces.
Your newer shotgun came with interchangeable chokes, and they will work just fine. All one really needs to do is choose your ammo and buy a case. Then shoot some 30” circle pattern targets at 30yds. Change factory chokes until you get a pattern with the most hits inside a 30” circle. If you cannot accomplish this then an aftermarket choke tube may be the answer.
You might try to get your hands on Bob Bristers shotgunning, The Art and Science. It is full of great information. He has opened the eyes of many shooters of his day. THANKS
If you’ve seen my other videos in this series, I referenced the book a few times… especially the video I did in the shot string. The book provided great information from back in his time. It gives us a look at the past and their understanding of many aspects of shooting. With today’s technology we are now able to take it further.
Patterning shotguns is one of my hobby. had similar experience like you did with ported chokes,but will lead pellets and Colonial ported chokes. More than one decade before and ended shell them as Muller for sporting clays. Had u1 and u3 but the first was too open patterning for my taste so i have also shell them ! Thank you for your ballistic videos !
WOW THANK YOU SO MUCH!! I am semi retiring my Benelli M1 1998 vintage and getting a Winchester SX4 black model aka a clean piece of canvas for some Krylon:) I truly appreciate all the time and effort you put into this and for not be a shill for any one company!
I did extensive patterning with my Franchi Affinity after this video. I shot the new Boss warchief 2 3/4” #5s with both the Muller passing and my trulock Mod. The Muller had an average of 74% pellets in a 30” circle at 40 yards. 87% at 30, 50% at 50. The trulock was 67% at 40, with an uneven gapped shot distribution in the circle. I also compared the the Boss 3” #5s to the warchief with the muller passing. Not even close. The muller had 74% with the warchief at 40 and 53% with the 3” and fewer over all pellet in the circle. Warchief and muller combo is fire, but I’m gonna need a mullet decoy choke now
Hi Joel love your series Surviving Duck Season. Kent has a new shell this year Fast Steel + it is a duplex load. The 2/4 with the muller passing choke is pretty impressive you may want to do a review on .
And I managed to get the Mobil/benelli standard wich do not fit my M2, so I ordered the right one now. In other words 'I have one for sale😂. Shit happens.
I was so excited to see a new episode of Surviving Duck Season! 😁 Welcome back Joel! Great video, as always! I've been very happy with the performance of Carlson smooth chokes in my SBE3! Looks like your results also indicated good performance.
Nice Video.. But when I'm Goose hunting I'll stick to using my Remington SP10 10ga shooting Federal Black Cloud in BB through a .720 Terror Choke Tube.. It's absolutely lights out devastating on geese..
Great video! Pretty much what I found in my experience too! Long story short guys. For the money just get the 3 choke non ported set from Carlsons delta waterfowl line. Three for the price of 1 muller and you are ready for all your shotgun needs.
Thank you Joel for you persistence and full effort to find the best chokes out there love your videos keep them coming I shoot skeet , trap and hunt I tried lots of chokes seems like every gun likes certain style of choke tube But never tried MULLER Choke tubes , now I will thanks,, plus it will help us to become better shooters/ hunters !!!!God Bless and can't wait for the good news .
The worst part about muller tubes is. People think it magic. You still need to be able to hit what you’re shooting at. He post videos making people think they can shoot 80 yards or more. A choke tube is not going to compensate for you not practicing and making a better shot.
That's odd that the engineer said that the helix choke would spin the shot cup to make a "more effective pattern". It wouldn't spin the shot column, it would sling the shot. Rifling imparts angular momentum to the shot, thus slinging it away from the center of the bore (if you don't believe me, look up a video of "birdshot through a rifled shotgun barrel"). If you imagine a pellet at the outer edge of the shot column traveling downrange, it wouldn't travel in a donut shaped spiral, it would scatter.
Love these videos! I noticed you had some Muller tubes in some of the other vids & was wondering how you felt about them. Saw the New Hunter Guide video before showing the ported tubes actually had more muzzle rise than non ported. There's a saying that a lot of fishing lures catch more fisherman than they do fish. Almost seems like the same holds true w/ all these choke tubes. Where as they get more duck hunters then they do ducks w/ all the advertising ( I believe you touched on that in your other video) + they look cool.
Yes lots of products (shiny objects) made to attract hunters, but really don’t do much more than look good. I love when I find a product and company that really delivers! Thanks for the comment, and thanks for watching!
Should compare gun bore sizes and how they pattern with the same choke. My retay Masai Mara has a drilled barrel, not a hammer forged, and a patternmaster snow goose choke. 2 shot fiocchi 1 1/8 oz absolutely hammer ducks out to about 60-65 yards. My brothers stoeger m3500 with the same choke just wounds them past 50. The gun kills well. Even on dove with an improved modified. I missed 7 shots in 3 days of hunting killing a limit every day. 45/52.
Literally bought a muller passing choke immediately for my SBE 20 gauge. Would love to see how these muller chokes perform with lead shot. Especially Kent FastLead. I don’t really shoot waterfowl but I do hunt doves and crows. And I particularly love picking a high flyer out of the sky.
@@BAYRAKTAR_MANI just picked up the passing and UFO choke for my SBE3 12! Let me know how yours works out and what shots you use! I mainly run #3 and BB speed shock by federal. Curious to see how your loads pattern with lead as well! I’m waiting to test mine out soon!
Excellent video! Patterning is the most important thing most hunters don’t do. An hour at the range can be hugely instructive. Start with your factory tubes - they might surprise you. Carlson, Briley, and Trulock make excellent (and inexpensive) tubes if you don’t like the performance from your factory tubes (I’ve been using Carlson extended tubes for decades with great success). I hear good things about Muller tubes, but am too cheap to pony up the dough for one. I also heartily recommend Target Telemetrics - it’s a huge time saver. We owe it to the birds to ensure our gun/choke/load combination will result in clean kills.
Is there a link or anything to see all the patterns for the chokes, specifically the patterns of the Carlsons tested? Unless the muller is much better, the price difference between a carlson $45 on Amazon, and the Muller decoy choke $135 is ridiculous.
Great Information, Thanks for all the work and time you did. Have always patterned my guns, shells and a few different chokes, but your choke information really helps. Thanks Again
I agree I wanna see the data, in his other videos he did a good job of describing the data and in this one he just says muller chokes performed better. I don't wanna pay for a new choke if its only a couple percent better...
I really appreciate the level of energy you put into your videos. Probably the most scientifically based conclusions on the subjects you cover. My personal believe is the shotgun chokes or sort of like fishing lures. They are marketing ploys more than performance improving tools. When I miss a duck, it dang sure ain’t because of the choke 99% of the time! My simplistic, non-informed advice is to screw an IC choke of your favorite brand into your gun if you’re hunting over decoys and shoot where they are going not where they are!
Fantastic test. Some choke manufacturers got some thinking to do and hopefully update their products or cut sales talk. Tests are obvious and trumps "the snake oil talk" I never cared for the ported chokes. I got fixed chokes in my Perazzi but we can test the performance on woodland ducks in Arkansas :-)
Love the info. I may have to try a muller. I have always use factory and have been very weary to try aftermarket. I tried a Rob Roberts tube for my A400 and sadly the packaging was mislabeled for all their tubes when I returned it. Reaffirmed my concerns about QA on aftermarket products. Ended up buying a Pattern Master extra range cause that was the only one that actually fit the gun and I was in the middle of a snow goose hunt.
I was hoping for the sats on all of the combos you shot and what guns. It was a good vieo but I expected more specific info and stats posted. Only take away really is that Either the Carlson's or the Muller chokes are worthwhile
Here is what I learned from this past season... My "decoy /mid range" choke was way to tight for anything inside 20 yards. Blew the ass off of 2, and they kept going. Missed close to 10 -easy 15 yard feet down shots. I didn't realize that it was too tight til I swatted a cripple at 20 yards. I patterned it and had a great spread at 30. But inside 20...baseball size patter.
I run a jebs. Love it in my sx3 and patterns really well with the ammo I run. My pattern master code black was absolutely horrible with it pattern, or lack there of 😅
Back in the day a Hastings extended turkey choke in a Winchester held the tightest pattern for me.And I went to turkey shoots everywhere. Mis doing that with my dad.
Great video. Chokes do have a purpose and it takes experimenting to determine the best size. Very disappointed in Weatherby's lack of choke choice for their shotguns. Weatherby won't even post a review on their website if there is a negative comment regarding their limited choke selection. When buying a shotgun, know your options.
Great work Joel, many of your findings echo my own, specifically that the same marked choke inscription for factory tubes may in fact shoot markedly different and mike out to different dimensions. Quite frankly, the manufacturers should be doing a much better job of making or having made the best choke tubes they can for their guns rather than having to purchase after-market tubes, something most hunters have just become complacent about having to do. It's really so much B.S. And kudos to Muller, apparently the only guy in the room who knows what should be done and is doing it. Incredible. BTW, how sore is your shoulder??
Great video. Very clear and concise. And because I am in the market for some tubes...you have definitely helped my decision making process and shortened my timeline on the research side. Thank you!
I found a copy of Jack O'cconers history of the shot gun for free at Tacoma sportsman club. It has been very informative. He states that a ruff bore does better for patterns than a smooth bore. He also has a chart showing various guages and how they pattern at 40 yards. Has three patterns using the same barrel and shot collum, each patterning diffrent. Also gives examples from multiple manufacturers here and abroad having different diameters for the same bores. Just goes to show that the more things change the more they stay the same.
Thanks for Watching! Let me know your thoughts.
To be honest, I use Carlsons because they're pretty dang affordable for a more casual hunter!
I was looking for a choke to try and gonna go get one from Muller to try out. Thanks for all the work to bring this to is.
Hi Joel & Happy Easter! I really appreciate your time and effort that you’ve put into these videos. Excellent work.
@@Justinisbored Exactly. Muller looks great, but for the price, I think I get enough performance out of the Carlson's.
Can't find this app on Google Play Store. IOS app only?
I was starting to worry that you didn't survive duck season.
Haha! Yep, barely made it!!! 😅👍🏻
Same lol
We need a duck hunting safety and first aid episode. Last year while hunting public land I took a pellet from another hunter l while kayaking out to go get my ducks I had to kayak my way to the boat ramp(45mins) so I could get ems.
@@Chris-qw2izshout over to the other guy tgat you were paddling out? Maki your presence known is 80% of the battle.
Best choke tube video ever made!!! Thanks so much for the shout out man! Hope you are well.
HaHa Thanks my friend!!
Muller chokes are about to be out of stock after this video 😂😂
Just ordered two for my clays gun
I had a Muller choke tube get stuck in the gun barrel. A gunsmith ruined it when he removed it. I met Jimmy Muller and he replaced it at no cost to me. He went way out of his way to be more than fair to me. He’s also an interesting guy to talk to.
I always grease the threads every time I clean my gun. Never had one I couldn't remove
@@John-uo1qfthanks for this tip i got a Stoeger M3500 Waterfowl and it came with some chokes
the full choke was a full black choke came super greased up
Use anti-seize on choke tubes.
Just bought a Muller Decoy. Immediate results. Folding more ducks, fewer cripples. Hitting the birds flying away that I usually miss.
I don’t know how some of those companies havnt been sued for false advertisement! I usually just stick with factory tubes because I never believe any of the advertising bs, and figured gun manufacturers did plenty of research when developing there own tubes. And since I don’t have the resources to buy several chokes and ammo and targets I just test ammo not chokes. I really appreciate your dedication to teaching, learning and testing. Not all hero’s wear capes buddy! Keep up the great work. Your like the project farm of hunting world!
Jimmy Muller stands behind his products too. I had one of his tubes that got stuck in a barrel. The gunsmith damaged the tube while removing it. I met with jimmy because he wanted to see the tube and he replaced it for me free of charge on the spot. To me that was going above and beyond.
i use Muller in my O/U for sporting clays. They are phenomenal! Like you I patterned my gun with the factory tubes vs. Muller, it was no contest. I use his feather-light light competition tubes
I went to the muller choke tube this past season with boss shells and wow! After nearly 30 years of duck hunting and multiple choke tubes, this was the first combination that I’ve ever shot that made a noticeable difference. I’m never going back to anything else.
This is one of the most well thought out and put together informational duck hunting videos I’ve ever seen. Been in the game almost 30 years now and this info is solid. Very very well done sir. And of course as you discovered, Jimmy Muller is a beauty. Heck of a guy, world class shot, and makes one fine product.
Easily the best video of the entire series so far.
Used muller chokes all this last season from crane hunting and duck hunting and loved them
Yet another video where you probably make a few fanboys shed some tears lol.
I’ve been looking at the Muller chokes, you have officially convinced me to give them a try.
Thanks, going to look at Muller now. Have a great Easter..he has risen!
Thanks for another great video Joel. I’ve been doing my own research over the past 10 years and have come to the exact same conclusion. I live at 4500 ft in Idaho and shoot a Carlson Mobil extended IC (actually .717”) for 70% of the season and was surprised that I was getting excellent patterns to 45 yards regardless of temperature/air density at 4500ft. I use a NP MR Cremator (actually .712”) the last bit of the season or when hunting strictly geese. The thinner air sure makes patterns stay together better than when I lived at sea level. Also don’t see any benefit from going tighter than LM with steel most of the time. I really
Like Mullers but they are just a little too rich for my blood for a small increase over my Carlsons. God bless you and your family 👍🏻
Thanks Joel for another informative addition to your shotgun series. I've been shooting Jimmy's H20 tubes in my Beretta 400 Lite and old Remington Wingmaster for the last 4 years and I concur with your findings.I've been shooting the Carlson in the Affinity 20 and it's proven to be a lethal pattern. Jimmy said he's coming out with an h2o for the Benelli SBE3 28 later this year. Thanks again for all you do and Happy Easter!
best content on youtube for educating waterfowl hunters. Well done Joel!!!
Thanks my friend!
Been shooting Muller exclusively in a Benelli for 10 years. Just added a Beretta A400 Xtreme Plus & the first thing I did was get a set of Muller chokes for it before even shooting it. 🤣 I also shoot them in my O/U for skeet, sporting & trap.
Try Trulock and they are no nonsense good chokes. They even make the chokes for other companies. That is ALL they do.
I've used them for almost 20yrs. I would like to see him test these sometime.
This channel, Mr. Joel simply makes me a better duck hunter. Thanks for all you do.
Thanks Wildman!
I have Muller in my skeet and sporting clays 725 Browning. Fantastic. My duck chokes are in the mail. Off to the pattern board. Your earlier video on patterns convinced me to seek out Muller and I am glad I did. Further Tom Roster an expert on shot shells recommends them!
I shot the muller chokes last year with the 3/5 blend boss. Worked great for me. After researching chokes it seemed muller had them figured out the best and your research proved that was true. Such an awesome informative video👍🏻
Another amazing video in this series Joel! Your dedication to understanding the intricacies of shotgunning is unreal! Love to see you calling our some of the gimmicks in the choke industry as well, I'd love to know how many ported vs non-ported waterfowl chokes are sold every year
Thanks Thomas! I appreciate it brother 👍🏻
I'm fairly new to shotguns but it's easy to tell that you have years of experience behind you, along with a passion for this all. It makes for an entertaining and exceptionally informative video. I appreciate what you do sir, and the attitude you do it with.
Glad to see your back and wholly cow what an informative video! Knocked it out of the park!
Thanks! Much appreciated 👍🏻💪🏻👊🏻
Great series, did you post all the data anywhere? I'd love to see which one had the best kill percentage or an excel sheet!
Joel, you're a legend! Thanks for all you do for my sport! The info you provide is amazing and invaluable!
So some choke companies have been selling bs. And others are working to give the best product. I think we knew this but to see someone test it is refreshing.
Those müller tubes are no joke, Joel. I started shooting them in 2021 and they live up to the hype. Easily the most consistent shooting choke tube I’ve ever screwed in. I use the passing 85% of the time and UFO the other 15%.
Done a lot of research myself, from what I could tell those Muller's made a lot of sense. Especially after seeing the other tests you've run and starting to understand the physics of it. I also love that they have a 60 day trial period.
THANK YOU! Most informative waterfowl site I've ever found. Love your videos - have watched some of them multiple times. Please don't stop 🙂
Absolutely fantastic... my partner and I took time during our Waterfowl season and some pattern testing with different shells but with our favorite extended aftermarket choke tubes. The results were flabbergasting. Definitely need to take the time to research or you're ot helping yourself.
Outstanding work, Joel. I know I’m not alone and wishing somebody had already done this kind of testing and analysis.
This video confirmed a lot of what I suspected, with a healthy dose of surprises thrown in as well.
Thanks Jason.
I agree, I would have loved to know this stuff years ago.
I reached the same conclusion regarding non-ported chokes. They pattern better than ported chokes.
I'm not a waterfowl hunter but a clay target shooter/shotgun nerd. Thanks for putting out the great videos and info you do! The amount of work you've put into them really shows. I've patterned my competition guns and have swapped the factory tubes for light mod Teague extended tubes. I went with the Teague tubes over others due to their reputation and also I was able to get titanium in order to pull a little weight out of the front end of the gun.
Good video I’ve tried a couple different choke tube for waterfowling over the years. For my Benelli SBE2 and now my M2 I actually achieved the best patterns with my factory Crio choke tubes. (Still use a Carlson.660 for lead turkey loads) If you really want a tight steel choke then use the II notch Benelli crio choke tube. I know Benelli doesn’t recommend it but I have been doing it for years on BB and smaller shot. But you better be on target because it’s pretty tight. In fact imo I think most hunters are not as good of shot as they think they are and would benefit more from a more open choke tube instead of a tighter one.
Man all I’ve got to say is wow. You really opened my eyes to what shot does & how choke tubes actually work! For years I always thought a ported tube was better than a non ported tube. I’ll be buying some muller chokes soon and hope it performs good with boss!
I started researching choke tubes in 2010. I 100% agree on Carlson and Muller tubes. You need to measure barrel I.D. on every gun you put a choke in. If you are a really serious shooter or hunter you need to conceder reaming forcing cones. It takes the flyers out of the pattern .
I just turned 50 and bought myself an over O/U 20 guage. I couldn't be happier. Low recoil, no stress. It came with 5 chokes. I haven't bought a turkey choke yet but from the group's I'm getting I'm just going to stick with the full choke and a modified for close.👍
I just go with Trulock blackened stainless steel and ported extended chokes. Improved modified and improved cylinder. Why ported? I shoot a Browning Feather 725 12 gauge with 26 inch barrels and it weighs just 6 pounds and 7 ounces.
Thought you were a retay fan boy ? Lmao seen you onn all them posts
great info...app to calculate patterning seems great...will look into it
So glad to have you back Joel! You have inspired me to do the right thing. I have a project now to get my guns properly patterned. Thank you!
Awesome!
We've been missing ya Joel!
Thanks Gary. Been crazy busy… all good stuff! I’m glad to be back in the saddle on YT.
One thing to Mossberg bore diameters is that certain models are specifically "overbored" to 10 gauge in an attempt to aid patterning.
Your newer shotgun came with interchangeable chokes, and they will work just fine. All one really needs to do is choose your ammo and buy a case. Then shoot some 30” circle pattern targets at 30yds. Change factory chokes until you get a pattern with the most hits inside a 30” circle. If you cannot accomplish this then an aftermarket choke tube may be the answer.
Would love to see a video comparing older fixed choke shotguns to a modern shotgun fitted with choke tubes.
I was actually thinking of this too! My dad recently gave me his old Remington 11-48 12ga with fixed full barrel. It got me to thinking 🤔
Ported looks cool 😎
That’s why my buddies have them 😂
You might try to get your hands on Bob Bristers shotgunning, The Art and Science. It is full of great information. He has opened the eyes of many shooters of his day. THANKS
Hello from the UK Adrian.
Agreed, Bob's book is the absolute bible of shotgunning.
If you’ve seen my other videos in this series, I referenced the book a few times… especially the video I did in the shot string. The book provided great information from back in his time. It gives us a look at the past and their understanding of many aspects of shooting. With today’s technology we are now able to take it further.
@@SurvivingDuckSeason hi Joel. I do remember you referencing the book. The shot string video was fascinating by the way 👌
Had a blast at Cypress crossing, awesome staff and great meals. I was wandering about you, glad to see you back. I'll have to give muller chokes a try
Patterning shotguns is one of my hobby. had similar experience like you did with ported chokes,but will lead pellets and Colonial ported chokes. More than one decade before and ended shell them as Muller for sporting clays. Had u1 and u3 but the first was too open patterning for my taste so i have also shell them ! Thank you for your ballistic videos !
Glad you are back. Thanks for your hard work on this series
WOW THANK YOU SO MUCH!! I am semi retiring my Benelli M1 1998 vintage and getting a Winchester SX4 black model aka a clean piece of canvas for some Krylon:) I truly appreciate all the time and effort you put into this and for not be a shill for any one company!
@13:30. "I don't know". LOL. Great video and more nonsense from vendors!
I did extensive patterning with my Franchi Affinity after this video. I shot the new Boss warchief 2 3/4” #5s with both the Muller passing and my trulock Mod. The Muller had an average of 74% pellets in a 30” circle at 40 yards. 87% at 30, 50% at 50.
The trulock was 67% at 40, with an uneven gapped shot distribution in the circle.
I also compared the the Boss 3” #5s to the warchief with the muller passing. Not even close. The muller had 74% with the warchief at 40 and 53% with the 3” and fewer over all pellet in the circle.
Warchief and muller combo is fire, but I’m gonna need a mullet decoy choke now
Hi Joel love your series Surviving Duck Season. Kent has a new shell this year Fast Steel + it is a duplex load. The 2/4 with the muller passing choke is pretty impressive you may want to do a review on .
Thank you sir😎I bought a Muller choke for mine Benelli. I took your word for it 👍
And I managed to get the Mobil/benelli standard wich do not fit my M2, so I ordered the right one now. In other words 'I have one for sale😂. Shit happens.
You just need to buy another shotgun to fit that choke!
@@CFurnace-72 yes😁Will do.. Infact i maybe buy two, Just for the hell of it👍
Yay shout out to Jorge!
I was so excited to see a new episode of Surviving Duck Season! 😁 Welcome back Joel! Great video, as always! I've been very happy with the performance of Carlson smooth chokes in my SBE3! Looks like your results also indicated good performance.
Thanks! Good to be back Bryce.
Nice Video.. But when I'm Goose hunting I'll stick to using my Remington SP10 10ga shooting Federal Black Cloud in BB through a .720 Terror Choke Tube.. It's absolutely lights out devastating on geese..
Great video! Pretty much what I found in my experience too! Long story short guys. For the money just get the 3 choke non ported set from Carlsons delta waterfowl line. Three for the price of 1 muller and you are ready for all your shotgun needs.
I have really enjoyed and valued this series, thanks again for going so deep into this.
Thanks Justin.
Thank you Joel for you persistence and full effort to find the best chokes out there love your videos keep them coming I shoot skeet , trap and hunt I tried lots of chokes seems like every gun likes certain style of choke tube But never tried MULLER Choke tubes , now I will thanks,, plus it will help us to become better shooters/ hunters !!!!God Bless and can't wait for the good news .
Do you have a spreadsheet of result you can share
Another vote for this. I'd absolutely love the data to dig through.
Watching this seeing how good the muller is, then listening to muller on mvm talk about load speed has me completely revamping my hand loads😅😅
The worst part about muller tubes is. People think it magic. You still need to be able to hit what you’re shooting at. He post videos making people think they can shoot 80 yards or more. A choke tube is not going to compensate for you not practicing and making a better shot.
That's odd that the engineer said that the helix choke would spin the shot cup to make a "more effective pattern". It wouldn't spin the shot column, it would sling the shot. Rifling imparts angular momentum to the shot, thus slinging it away from the center of the bore (if you don't believe me, look up a video of "birdshot through a rifled shotgun barrel").
If you imagine a pellet at the outer edge of the shot column traveling downrange, it wouldn't travel in a donut shaped spiral, it would scatter.
Was thinking of buying a ported choke, I’ll definitely re think that after watching this. Thanks!
Remember he said there was plastic from the wad in those ports ?
That slows the acceleration of the wad and allows it to separate from the shot.
Somehow I knew this was going to end up being an advertisement for Muller tubes.😂
Yup. And they’re so damn expensive
$130 for a choke for my M2 20 gauge. No thanks
Love these videos! I noticed you had some Muller tubes in some of the other vids & was wondering how you felt about them.
Saw the New Hunter Guide video before showing the ported tubes actually had more muzzle rise than non ported.
There's a saying that a lot of fishing lures catch more fisherman than they do fish. Almost seems like the same holds true w/ all these choke tubes. Where as they get more duck hunters then they do ducks w/ all the advertising ( I believe you touched on that in your other video) + they look cool.
Yes lots of products (shiny objects) made to attract hunters, but really don’t do much more than look good. I love when I find a product and company that really delivers!
Thanks for the comment, and thanks for watching!
Should compare gun bore sizes and how they pattern with the same choke. My retay Masai Mara has a drilled barrel, not a hammer forged, and a patternmaster snow goose choke. 2 shot fiocchi 1 1/8 oz absolutely hammer ducks out to about 60-65 yards. My brothers stoeger m3500 with the same choke just wounds them past 50. The gun kills well. Even on dove with an improved modified. I missed 7 shots in 3 days of hunting killing a limit every day. 45/52.
Literally bought a muller passing choke immediately for my SBE 20 gauge. Would love to see how these muller chokes perform with lead shot. Especially Kent FastLead. I don’t really shoot waterfowl but I do hunt doves and crows. And I particularly love picking a high flyer out of the sky.
This is the data the shotgunning world needs. Excellent work.
@@BAYRAKTAR_MANI just picked up the passing and UFO choke for my SBE3 12! Let me know how yours works out and what shots you use! I mainly run #3 and BB speed shock by federal. Curious to see how your loads pattern with lead as well! I’m waiting to test mine out soon!
Excellent video! Patterning is the most important thing most hunters don’t do. An hour at the range can be hugely instructive. Start with your factory tubes - they might surprise you. Carlson, Briley, and Trulock make excellent (and inexpensive) tubes if you don’t like the performance from your factory tubes (I’ve been using Carlson extended tubes for decades with great success). I hear good things about Muller tubes, but am too cheap to pony up the dough for one. I also heartily recommend Target Telemetrics - it’s a huge time saver. We owe it to the birds to ensure our gun/choke/load combination will result in clean kills.
Is there a link or anything to see all the patterns for the chokes, specifically the patterns of the Carlsons tested? Unless the muller is much better, the price difference between a carlson $45 on Amazon, and the Muller decoy choke $135 is ridiculous.
Great Information, Thanks for all the work and time you did. Have always patterned my guns, shells and a few different chokes, but your choke information really helps. Thanks Again
Smooth Carlson and the black cloud is my new favorite. From my gun, it’s a beautiful pattern.
You should post all of the statistics some where
I agree I wanna see the data, in his other videos he did a good job of describing the data and in this one he just says muller chokes performed better. I don't wanna pay for a new choke if its only a couple percent better...
I really appreciate the level of energy you put into your videos. Probably the most scientifically based conclusions on the subjects you cover. My personal believe is the shotgun chokes or sort of like fishing lures. They are marketing ploys more than performance improving tools. When I miss a duck, it dang sure ain’t because of the choke 99% of the time! My simplistic, non-informed advice is to screw an IC choke of your favorite brand into your gun if you’re hunting over decoys and shoot where they are going not where they are!
Great Intel thank you for doing this!!!
Fantastic test. Some choke manufacturers got some thinking to do and hopefully update their products or cut sales talk. Tests are obvious and trumps "the snake oil talk" I never cared for the ported chokes. I got fixed chokes in my Perazzi but we can test the performance on woodland ducks in Arkansas :-)
Love the info. I may have to try a muller. I have always use factory and have been very weary to try aftermarket. I tried a Rob Roberts tube for my A400 and sadly the packaging was mislabeled for all their tubes when I returned it. Reaffirmed my concerns about QA on aftermarket products. Ended up buying a Pattern Master extra range cause that was the only one that actually fit the gun and I was in the middle of a snow goose hunt.
Man keep up the great work, very interesting and in depth information you are providing. What paper do you use most when patterning?
I was hoping for the sats on all of the combos you shot and what guns.
It was a good vieo but I expected more specific info and stats posted.
Only take away really is that Either the Carlson's or the Muller chokes are worthwhile
He said the carlaons performed better than most. He said the kick’s vortex outperformed the rest with a high average. Still a little unclear though
Rob Roberts T3 choke out of a SBE3 patterned amazing for us with Migra 3” #2-3
Here is what I learned from this past season... My "decoy /mid range" choke was way to tight for anything inside 20 yards. Blew the ass off of 2, and they kept going. Missed close to 10 -easy 15 yard feet down shots. I didn't realize that it was too tight til I swatted a cripple at 20 yards. I patterned it and had a great spread at 30. But inside 20...baseball size patter.
Hello from the UK Joel.
Really enjoy your content.
Hello 👋 Thanks, I appreciate it!
I run a jebs. Love it in my sx3 and patterns really well with the ammo I run. My pattern master code black was absolutely horrible with it pattern, or lack there of 😅
I love the detail and representation of this information. Absolute nerd candy
Back in the day a Hastings extended turkey choke in a Winchester held the tightest pattern for me.And I went to turkey shoots everywhere. Mis doing that with my dad.
Which muller choke tube did you like best for your Winchester sx4 (12ga)? Thanks for the informative videos.
Great video. Chokes do have a purpose and it takes experimenting to determine the best size. Very disappointed in Weatherby's lack of choke choice for their shotguns. Weatherby won't even post a review on their website if there is a negative comment regarding their limited choke selection. When buying a shotgun, know your options.
Check what your choke tube is rated for, some choke tubes are rated for Lead only.
I am going to try the Muller Choke tubes. Thanks for the info
Great work Joel, many of your findings echo my own, specifically that the same marked choke inscription for factory tubes may in fact shoot markedly different and mike out to different dimensions. Quite frankly, the manufacturers should be doing a much better job of making or having made the best choke tubes they can for their guns rather than having to purchase after-market tubes, something most hunters have just become complacent about having to do. It's really so much B.S. And kudos to Muller, apparently the only guy in the room who knows what should be done and is doing it. Incredible. BTW, how sore is your shoulder??
Great video. Very clear and concise. And because I am in the market for some tubes...you have definitely helped my decision making process and shortened my timeline on the research side.
Thank you!
To be fair, the Mossberg 835 is advertised as being upbored to a 10 gauge diameter.
I had one for a while. It was meant to pattern better with the largest 3.5" loads I believe.
Would love to see this same test done with lead loads for those of us who are more upland game than waterfowl.
Thanks for your hard work and for sharing your information.
It was a lot of work but a lot of fun too!
Thanks so much for the video. Is was always wondering the same thing about the ports. I honestly think it is done for the "cool factor".
I found a copy of Jack O'cconers history of the shot gun for free at Tacoma sportsman club. It has been very informative.
He states that a ruff bore does better for patterns than a smooth bore.
He also has a chart showing various guages and how they pattern at 40 yards. Has three patterns using the same barrel and shot collum, each patterning diffrent.
Also gives examples from multiple manufacturers here and abroad having different diameters for the same bores.
Just goes to show that the more things change the more they stay the same.