Don't Waste Cycle Time; Peck Drilling Essentials - Haas Automation Tip of the Day
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- Опубліковано 3 тра 2024
- You are wasting valuable cycle time and not even realizing it! In today's episode, Mark explains how the peck drilling cycle you are most likely using is adding time to your programs. Using Q values is costing you money, learn how to properly use I-J-K values instead. This is one of those tips you will use in your shop literally every day, don't miss it.
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Why is Mark so easy to understand?? While he was talking about G73, I realized we've been using the wrong pecking cycle in a machine for for a whole year or so now.
I wish it was only that long in our shop. Try the better part of 20 years. 😂
That SS-Machine has a weird ring to it in Germany.
Not anymore, I know it I life in Germany.... :D
That took me longer to get than I want to admit.
Here in Australia due to the car world the connotation has shifted more toward Super Sport luckily :)
Probably even worse in Poland.
Icelands largest slaughterhouse is called Sláturhús Suðurnesja. SS. Recently we had commercials with "I love SS."
Thank you for letting us be a part of your success.
Marketing done right!
Thanks Mark, i love watching your tips . You are a great teacher !
What great instruction! Everyone should teach like you!
Thank you guys, this is exactly what I was looking for. Now im off to program a g73 :)
Good job explaining that, cheers!
Your enthusiasm is ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️, goes right along with the ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️content. ‘We want you to make 💰💰💰’ 😂😂😂😂😂👍👍👍👍👍⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
thats so cute.
my old Deckel FP4 with Dialog4 Control supports this at G83.
As a 30 year enginerd, all things industrial and technology from the old reliable pencil paper and drafting tools. To hand tools in the shop along with mechanical timing cam packs, gears, bearing slides, etc. To tooling for HDDs, turbines, roller blades, aerospace, and communications, motorsports, mining, military, Powergen, oil gas, automotive, automation, software Internet, IT, electronics, MEMS, rapid prototyping, to the maker and small business through the advances in information technology and social media to be alive now is awesome. Time is the most precious resource and the ability to maximize advances like using UA-cam to share across the world is a huge benefit for improving life skills that provide lessons that took me a long career to accumulate while today if i didn't have to spend years being lucky enough to have the opportunity of working with a great group of well-seasoned veterans to get tips like this. They had catalogs they generated thousands of tips they figured out or some old timer taught them. It was your responsibility to create your own book to glean from the guys retiring they were happy to share but some were not. So if you figured something out that eliminated issues like knowing your best goto for a supplier or manufacturing process. The difference over time is if you are making the company money and being awarded appropriately while taking on learning more and become a mentor and leader that attracts talent. If it's toxic recognize issues if integrity is in leadership for performance based on many attributes. Burnout will be less and group motivation is self-feeding. It is important to diversify your skills across all areas.
That makes sense. The joke, though corny, was a very effective illustration tool.
I blind drill M42 tool steel, no pecking at all. Carbide drill, through tool coolant and a nice feedrate.
The other day, I finally drilled 2 holes on my block. The next day, I went back and tapped those holes.
Gracias, buen trabajo, me ahorro bastante tiempo en ciclos preprogramados
Excellent video thanks for sharing !!!
I almost daily drill holes of Ø 2mm x 60mm depth (or more) in mold steel. G83 is a must for this purpose, the chips don't find the way easily to get out of the hole ,otherwise. Its a time consuming job and depending the mold, 20-50 holes give or take, cnc will drill for hours. The holes must be close fit, and that make things even more difficult. That > , That I didn't know, maybe will help me to speed up things.
thx for the tip.
Sir I really learn so much from your video, thanks
In love with kennametal go drills
Excellent video... for the youngins who see this... don't badmouth old guys using full retract... you use full retract on tools that can't evacuate chips or tolerate heat well; to pull the chips out and expose the hole and drill to coolant. Runout in your system will tend to wallow the entrance to the hole more with full retract, but in some cases the full retract will give you a much tighter hole as chip binding and tool edge bugging are the primary cause of wallowing out the hole aside from runout, and worse, poor work holding. When you need super accurate holes, you generally drill slightly undersized and follow with a reamer....but as the man says the tool technology is getting awesome. Additionally full retract may be a solution if chip strings are wrapping around the drill shank and marring your part's finish.
once lost a job with a dbag who wanted accurate holes drilled on a radial drill press with no way to lock it down; life can be challenging.
Thank you very much for your helpful videos
If you're that worried about cycle time, why are you peck drilling at all? Spend a little more on some carbide drills and save a ton of time on every hole.
Yea i've just had a go with deep water hole gun drilling, The stock materials we have are 800 N/mm^2 up to 1.1k strength so they are quite strong so it takes 10 mins to get down to 600mm. But im sure if we machined softer materials they would be way faster
He said that in the video. Well not exactly but he stated use no pecks if at all possible.
it depended how much your boss want to spend on drills
@@chaddanylak8706 Boss gets to spend it on wages and additional machines instead then
The carbide isnt nearly as important as TSC....
Great video, keep it up!
Nice view of the cutco ultimate set. Best 2100$ set of knives I own
We use straight drilling of the part no pecking it gets around 6000 parts before it starts wearing out , not sure how that compares to other drills
stainless steel drilling, i like to use 135 degree cobalt screw machine length drills G81 command try this combination if your having problems
could you to a video on arcs in the zx plane? like entering the work with a 1.250 radius with a 1/4 inch ball end mill go in a straight line for 20 inches and then exit at 1.250 radius and show how to peck this down without using a cam system.
You say G81 is the best, but when I punched a hole out in just 3 seconds my wife was pissed.
I'm sorry to hear about your bad experience. Here are some hints for the future. Don't try to open up a small diameter pilot with a large diameter tool unless you've got the right feeds and speeds. Check your programming that you're hitting the right hole. If you have two holes with different diameters available, you definitely don't want to hit the small one by accident! Make sure you're using plenty lubrication. If you have a tool that can self-exert lubricant from the tip, all the better. Hope that helped.
Jordan nice I hope you used lots of coolant
God dammit these machinist jokes.
Hahahahahaha
For that job do a lot of pecking.
Hello Mark. Great video. Where can i buy a shirt like yours ? I drive a VF-7 and it would match perfectly.
Very nice story to the begin that I will keep in mind for quite some time... :D
Can any machine use those IJK values in a G83 or just Haas? I've never seen that before.
its really helpfull... thanks
That joke actually illustrates a software design problem that really does exist. There are ways to address it, but it actually takes extra programming work around it, and is often overlooked before it becomes deeply embedded in a code library. You should wonder if this "anti-pattern" happens to exist in the CNC software you use.
Great job
Haas is there a way you could do a video on the Haas 300 autofeeder and G105 for sl30 lathe?
Fixed the typos; nice!
Hey bob , great content and have following since an year pluse by now, and we are about start our own shop with a vmc , I am bit confused with the different types of holders that I would want to by, because I don't what's going to come through that door after I set up , so can help me out with the different types of of holder in By 40 tapper , and their uses so that I can decide on what to buy and how many, it will be great if you make a video , that might help others also. Thanks a lot a keep going ,
u v girish - For a new machine I would start with the basic tool holders, then add some of the special holders later as needed. If you don’t know what kind of parts you’ll be running, I might fill a machine with: (8) ER32 x 4” Collet holders, (1) ER32 x 6”, (4) ER16 x 3”, (2) ER16 x 5”, (3) ½” Shank Weldon Holders, (1) 5/8” Weldon, (2) ¾” Weldon, (1) Precision Keyless Drill Chuck . You’ll also need a good indexable endmill to start with, 4 flute 1.25”/32mm is a good generic size, along with a 3” facemill/shellmill. ER collets are just good, universal holders, but you will need to buy collets. As your need for accuracy increases, you’ll find yourself buying a few hydraulic holders, in the specific size you need, and looking at some of the other holder options out there like Milling Chucks and Albrecht APC. Shrink Fit and Rego-Fix powRgrip systems are worth looking at as well, down the road. Check out our video on ER collets for more info, ua-cam.com/video/WKikm6cQKh0/v-deo.html. Time to give your tool salesman a call! - Mark Haas Tip-of-the-day
Hello sir,does this cycle work on Siemens and Fanuc controllers?
Is this G83 I J K cycle available on Fanuc controller
great i learnt something useful today
Very interesting and informative. Too bad I don't even own a cordless drill lol.
Can we also use G83 in turning centers?
Sir urs r awesome 👏
There is the G73 with Q and K value...a combination of a G83 and G73...
Thanks guys.
great video .. I'm using a Haas sl-20 .. G83 have I, J, K in the manual .. but the machine ignore the values. It's bugged in some software revisions, or its some parameter you must change?
G83 z-50. Q1. R2. I15. .. ? Thatr supposed to do 15mm for the first peck? But its starts pecking from the return value.. whatever i type on I .. tried both positive and negative values.. . Also tried adding values for J and K .. but the machine don't care..
Haha .. putting Q in the cycle broke it .. I should have knew .. no issues now .lol .. How deep can you go on the first peck with HSS? ;)
Very usefull tip.
High rpm and light feeds will not drill as deep of a hole without pecking as lower rpm and heavier chip loads. A heavier chip that is wire like comes out of the hole better than a thin chip that folds up and packs the flutes which causes friction (heat) and blocks coolant. A wiry chip allows some coolant to pass by and get down in the hole. Also, a heavier chip will not wrap around the drill and block the coolant and mar the part.High rpm also results in more heat and in a deep hole that is hard to get the coolant into that is bad. Sometimes by slowing the rpm down and taking the heaviest practical chip load possible you can drill to full depth without pecking, or get by with one peck instead of many. An example of "slow" winning the race.
영상 잘보고 갑니다..
Is this function available in Vf2 also
This video is ancient, so not expecting a response but any tips on drilling tool steels like 1.2311 or 1.2738.
its good. thank you :)
Can apply on fanuc control
do i still need to add g98 retract if using i,j,k method....
i would definitely be happy if u explain that frog joke??but cool explanation MR.THICK HEAD lots of love from INDIA
G83 used in turning cnc lathe machine
This work in FANUC control?
Where can I get one of those shirts? Who makes it?
Directions unclear, got steak knives stuck in my tool holders.
I will have to look at the manual when I get back to work, but I don't think the g83 on my 15 year old VF4 has IJK options. Can I get software updates?
Currently, I use multiple lines for each hole. A g81 followed by a g83 with an R value that does not pull the drill all the way out of the hole. It works, but the programs get long when making pieces with multiple hole circles since I can't use g70 with my method without losing any time saved to rapid back to each hole multiple times.
you can change a setting for how much before the return plane u want the pecking to retract .. and it will still pull out the drill
I was super confused when I saw x y i j in my gcode as i thought i and j were unit vectors and it didnt make any sense lol... Could you please let me know what book you referenced in the snippet you showed, this looks like a very nice reference for someone like me who doesnt know hoe to interpret gcode. Thanks
The G-codes vary from machine to machine and from make to make. Mazatrol will use g-codes but it’s specific to mazack. The biggest difference between EIA and mazatrol is incremental imput. There is a lot of information out there haas is normally the most user friendly. The machinists bible is a good place too start. It may make your eyes melt but it has almost everything in there.
Hi. My name is Bernardo Dávalos. I'm a creo parametric user here un México. In my facility we have a 5 axis Hass and i want to know how or where can i take a five axis curse To programm this 5 axis hass. Excelent divice i Will put in practice
Молодцы, очень подробно и понятно с юмором объясняете как программировать ЧПУ. Так держать.
Sir your videos are too good sir
Sir your lecture is good. Pleas send some milling programs in Simone
no.
Hass' videos are really well done!...how? Who's doing the scripts? 🙂
Abinesh Chandrasekhar - Thanks. We have a number of
different people making videos. The scripts are usually a collaboration between
the on-screen Engineer and the person filming (Videographer/Editor/Producer).
On complex topics, we’ll get feedback from the Engineering, Applications, Service,
or Software Departments. Thanks for the comment. - Mark, Haas Tip-of-the-day
Ask your tool supplier if g83 peck is right for you. Stop using g83 peck if you experience strange chip formation or loose stool...oops I can't go on...Good on you Haas for the video.
How does this come into play with a center drill or spot drill and a regular HSS or TiN drill?
Unless you are working with strong, dense, or heat treated materials you really shouldn't need to be pecking your spots or center drills.
I’m no longer a sales rep but Cutco is pretty damn good 😂😂😂
I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this already, but would these G83 IJK Cycles work better for a wire sized hole? Talking maybe 1/16 or smaller. I do a lot of EDM blocks and I had to drill sizes that were about .030" Most of the time it's usually around 1/16" though.
Having a lot of personal experience drilling deep and tiny holes in a multitude of material types I would reccomend using g73 for those types of holes.
I've had to do up to 65xDia depth holes before and G73 will save your ass doing those.
Where can I find that reference book you are using at 4:27 in the video?
Did you find it ?
G73 IJK, why this Zix does not work on Fanuc?
Sir Plz All Programs used in G21 mode (mm)
I have a note on my desk to remind me of this! Thanks. More than half of our users run their machine in Metric Mode. Thanks for the comment.
Very good overview on the topic of chatter. I wonder - maybe I just don't know - why non periodic oscillation in speed and feed isn't used. To my understanding, positive excitation often comes from harmonic, periodic resonance. Thus, why not modulating the feeds and speed around a mean value? ... :)
Stefan - We call this SSV, Spindle Speed Variation. It is available on Haas Lathes (M38) and Haas Mills (M138). Our Servo control systems are also tuned to avoid certain frequencies, on different machine models, based on their natural frequencies. - Mark, Haas Tip-of-the-day. Check out ua-cam.com/video/dXR2wDDFFm4/v-deo.html
The SS stands for Super Sport, liscenced by Chevy
SS stands for something else in Germany
Hi
Drilling quotation
Do you know breakthrough space under plate for drill how much it is say for 1 inch drill ?
With a 118 degree drill point, we can multiply the diameter by .3 to get that breakthrough tip length. So drill point length on a 1” 118° drill, is .3”
@@markterryberry4477 correct me if I'm wrong 118/2 59 degree tan59 =.825
.825/.5=.606 but .3x1=.3 this will hit the table
The X .3 rule just tells us how much deeper we must drill for the tool to reach full diameter, be ones of the drill point angle. What are you trying to accomplish?
First peck 2.5D use G73, second peck use G83 with dowel,I made a G66 custom macro 😂
Plz update more videos
Just use solid carbide thru coolant and drill it in one go use tool life on machine job done.
what would you recommend for an .098 drill (number 40) in steel?
What type of Steel? Do you have coolant through? If so, what coolant pressure do you have?
Steel type? Heat Treated? Drill material type? Desired hole depth?
If Through coolant is used, you can just use g81.
If you are just using a mild steel like 1018 and a basic HSS-Co drill and drilling about an inch deep, you can pretty much do this without a lot of fuss or effort.
Something like S1000 F2. g83 q.25 z-1. should do the trick for small hobby machines / small shops.
A lot of people have trouble drilling with small diameter tools, hope that helps.
Do you have any tips for drilling with large diameter (i.e. 1/2 inch and above) HSS drills? I was drilling a 1 inch deep through-hole with a 1/2 inch diameter drill bit (brand new from McMaster Carr) in 6061 aluminum with one plunge (since 1 inch is less than 4*diameter) and the bit seemed to scream a little bit. I later tried it using a 1/8th inch pecking full retract cycle and there was still a bit of screaming and strange noises. And sometimes a chip would get wrapped around the bit before it plunged for the next peck and it almost seemed like it was going to jam up. I had two steady streams of coolant flooding the bit and hole in each scenario. Would you want to drill progressively larger holes or is there another strategy to get better results?
Sounds like you are using a bad RPM / Feed to me. The bigger your cutting diameter, the slower it needs to go.
If you aren't trying to drill a thousand holes a day or anything, and you'd rather prefer a clean hole wall
I'd use 800 - 1000 RPM with a feed of 4ipm.
So like, S1000 g83 z-1. q.400 F4.
The reason why q.4, is because alum chips tend to get really stringy and need to be broken up to avoid a tornado of chips on the drill. Also breaking the chips up and doing a full retract with g83 will allow coolant to go in and prevent the aluminum from welding itself to the drill.
Also, try drilling with an HSS-Co drill instead of an HSS drill. They will cut better and have better edge geometry.
@@Brokoro Thanks for your reply! I was using 3439 RPM at 20 IPM (on a 3.5 HP Matsuura Tiger) that I got from my HSM Advisor calculator, but it looks like that wasn't quite slow enough. I will try slowing the feed and speed down with the full retract cycle per your recommendation and see if I get a better result. Would a carbide drill cut much better than an HSS-Co drill (a carbide drill would obviously be a lot more expensive than an HSS-Co drill so if the results would not be much better than I would much rather use HSS-Co)?
From the video: I=4xD, J=2xD, K=1xD. Do you have some information how it is with other materials/tools?
How can one get one of those nice HAAS shirts? I'd really like to buy one if possible
Machine one :P
Andrew Lang buy a new HAAS machine and you get a free shirt
you can get custom shirts if you look online.
Can we use a G73 on a non High Speed Mill? Or it’s only for High Speed machines?
Jorge - The cycle will run on machines, even if they don’t have the High Speed Machining Option. - Mark, Haas Tip-of-the-day
Which book is that 4:35
I use a G73 q .05 and add a k .150 so it breaks up the chip and brings it up after 3 breaks
Solidworks CAM has this ability but no where have I found a way to set I,J,K for a HAAS.
i love when my machine , with drill spinning at max rpm decides to say "we don't need no stinking "R" value. Mhm waxed drill trashed part.....nice
Sir this cycle can use only HASS..... Or can use another serious, for an example fanuc...
u can use it in fanuc machines too
Really helpful as i am beiggner
Does this work on a 1993 vf-3? I have 98 holes to drill and I'm trying to get my cycle time as low as possible.
Yes, this IJK pecking has been around for a very long time and should work just fine on your '93 Haas Mill. I spent thousands of hours on those mills, at the first shop I had worked at, great machines.
Why u r using
4D,2D,1D
Why u don't take any other values
Is it relates with your component or tool dimen.
If any 1 know plz explain
please teach us about polar coordinate G16 drilling cycle
no.
When using regular coolant shooting out at the drill I want to point out something that some people may miss. If the coolant is not pointed below the tip of the drill it will be washing chips down into the hole and when the drill goes back down will spin on the chips and break a small drill. Or if the coolant is blasting at super volume and high speed and hitting the top of the workpeice it can blast chips down in some of them--because it has the same effect as if the coolant were pointed above the tip on the flutes. It took me a long time to figure out why small deep drills were breaking for no reason right after changing them.
So did you save the time by doubling the depth of the pecks or by less pecks? Or both?
Hola trbajo perforando material de circuitos impreso y tengo problemas de dispercion en agujeros de 0.50
Flavio Puca - Tooling suppliers have some very specific drills, made just for circuit boards. I would contact your tool salesman, they would love to help find a solution for you. Sometimes, we are able to stack the material, and drill through many parts, firmly clamped together, into the fixture underneath. This can greatly reduce the chipping as the drill exits on glass-filled materials - Mark, Haas Tip-of-the-day
hyellow and welcome to this haas tip of the day
dumb question does IJK work on the last gen control?
Chad - Definitely. The new control has all the bells and whistles. The G83 cycle will also have the new chip-clean function as well ua-cam.com/video/d1ATntHemHk/v-deo.html - Mark, Haas Tip-of-the-day
I love these tips and Mark is great but this tip does a disservice to those who use HSS drills. The main purpose of peck drilling is to get coolant in the hole to cool the chisel point. Heat destroys HSS. Chip removal is the second reason for peck drilling. For my applications a G73 will just pack the flutes and cause drill breakage. There is no new magic for drilling unless you can utilize TSC drills. I'm sorry to have to disagree with this tip because they are always so good.
I have used similar cycle with an old Deckel Dialog control and really speeds up the drilling with HSS drills without compromising the drill longevity. Materials used were mainly tool steels and with drill sizes over 5 mm (~0.2") 4-5xD for the first peck is easily managed and coolant will flow in to the hole with just plain old single nozzle setup.
I don't know how well dialed in your speeds and feeds are but making too light of a cut at high rpm will require more pecking and is harder on drills. Slowing the rpm down and taking a heavy chip load often eliminates the need for pecking, speeds up the cycle, and extends the drill life. It took me years to figure that out. Running the highest rpm on deeps holes slows you down because it requires more pecking and wears out or breaks more tools.
@@G53X0Y0Z0 Very true, speed is a tool's worst enemy. If your tool (almost any tool) is not lasting what you think it should, the first parameter to consider adjusting is your speed. Speed is what creates heat, heat destroys the tool. Always better to start out using the tool at the lower end of it's recommended surface feet per minute (SFM) or meters per minute if in metric, check with your tool supplier and make sure you are using the tool within their suggested parameters as well.
I love it, I tell that joke all the time
To your imaginary friends?
knowing me I'd try that command and all of a sudden the machine would start helical plunging with a 1/4" drill bit