API BOX 6 months in...
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- Опубліковано 19 кві 2022
- Six months into owning the API BOX2 Console I've settled into a workflow with a true blend of analog and plug-in processing. like any well integrated system it's hard to say how much any single component is making the difference. I know it was a significant decision to allocate the drums to the left side of the console - for analog EQ and compression. Also creating the parallel drum bus on the analog board using analog compression.
The master bus insert chain is a monster and it's definitely adding a lot.
One thing I didn't mention In the video is I've been using the Patchrat app on my phone to document settings and it's normally a subscription but when you buy any piece from audioscape you get a complementary subscription... I actually find the GUI for that app pretty annoying in general and difficult to document quickly but one really nice thing is that you can take pictures with your phone and it will specifically save them with the piece of gear that you're trying to document. I tried just creating folders on my phone for documentation pictures and it just gets too unruly. With the app I can very quickly clone a project, rename it, it already has the gear I need in the order that I need and all I have to do is take the pictures. So for now that's been working. I'm finding I can recall a mix in roughly 5 minutes Which is well worth the effort for the payoff.
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#apiaudio #recordingstudio #musicproduction #mixing #analogmixing #producer #doylestown #musicproducer #mastering #sslaudio #PMCspeakers #dwfearn #chandlerLTD 
SUCH a wonderful console !!
Thanks! yes i love it.
Wow man! You have one candy shop of a studio. 🔥🔥🔥
ty 🙏 - tryin lol
Wow man very nice setup with sum incredible gear to. Thank you for sharing this a.
I've been looking at one of these for such a long time, they look great! Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts 🤠
I just bought The Box (waiting for it to arrive). I have a pair of LA-2As and an 1176 along with a Lexicon 300. Your video was very informative and is helping me figure out my new setup. Thanks!
congrats!! thats some great gear! Now you're all set to go broke buying EQs 😂
You're gonna have a blast with the Box!
Beautiful setup! Thanks for sharing…
🙏 ty!
haha love seeing that little Rupert Neve peaking his head over the API lol!
Mine just arrived two days ago. Thanks for the inspiration. I love it. 🙏🏾
wow! congrats!! 👍👍
@@hopetownsound Hey hope all is well. I’ve got a question regarding the summing side of the board. On yours, are the channels calibrated equally @ 0db without using the 0db button? @ Unity gain my pairs are not. Example channels 1-2, 3-4 etc…One channel will show up slightly louder on my converters metering. But if I press the 0db they will even up across the two channels. Without the 0db button pressed, I’d have to move one of the faders higher than the other to get equal signal coming in on my Burl converter.
@@richiefamus8778 interesting. I'll have to check. i pretty much exclusively use the 0db buttons.
Nice rig! But the "Sting" example was hilarious.
dont tell Hugh Padgham 😂
Your studio 😍😍😍
Ty! 🙏
Cool video 💯
🙏👍
Interesting setup has some uniqueness to it !
Killer gear ,, love the lynx converter s..
appreciated
You know you have an insane amount of sick gear when you casually refer to a Chandler TG-2 as "these".
ha!! yeah, I just wanted to get back to the console. I skipped over the great rivers and the Hazelriggs as well 😂. no love lost for chandlers lol.
Thanks for the video! :) really curious about the API. Your workflow is really similar to mine, so this video is really making wonder if it’s time to shift my Audient to an API.
As far as I can tell Audient makes very nice things. idk. I mean, you know, on some level I think they designed this (BOX) board to make you want more lol. it would be wonderful to have sub groups and a few more aux sends etc. but... you can do the job with this and get the API sound, which is amazing.
I believe artist John Fullbright's 2nd album was done on an Audient in a studio in Oklahoma. it's very impressive. 🤷🏼♂️
I think its very very cool. I was always questioning why the faders are down front when they are either bypassable... or hardly touched. Awesome setup!
ha! so in the last two weeks I finally decided screw it and I started using the faders 😂. i'm actually really enjoying it.
It's just nice to have them right there and the throw is super smooth, and not having to worry about how level changes affect the inserts is nice.
what's great though is if I'm pulling up a different mix that's basically in the box, I can just turn the faders off and the inserts off and get basic summing... then go right back to the analog mix very easily
Very nice
🙏👍
ok i had to look it up and it's a real thing .... the rupert neve bobble head (that i noticed in in front of your console). nice! LMAO. i should be drooling over all the gear though LOL.
haha!! it is indeed! i still want a Saul Walker to go with it lol
Nice gear man
ty! 🙏
Thanks for the video update! Do you ever do consulting work? I'm just trying to get my stuff wired up correctly/efficiently with the box. If not, I'll check YT some more.
occasionally, you're welcome to send me some questions if you want via email. studio@hopetownsound.com
@@hopetownsound Great! Thank you. I'll shoot you an email shortly.
Nice setup. You can also get the API 529 for mix buss if needed.
You could certainly put it in the master insert, they aren't making that an option on the box console in place of the 527s are they? I think it was a really big miss
to not include a manual make up gain on the mix bus compressor.
it's true though you could just assign the 527's to the first four channels and then use an outboard 529.
@@hopetownsound Nice, I was torn between the API 529 and the Shadow Hills Dual Vandergraph and I went with the Shadow hills. I would honestly use the buss compression on the board for the master buss, %100 and use inserts for the drums. I just got back from Abbey Road Studios in London and it was nice to use the compressor on the master buss on the SSL Duality in the Front Room there.
@@sonicpalacevideos i'll bet it was :)
Hey man great vids, thanks for these. I had an original box sent to me yesterday. Your patchbay routing vid was helpful and the tricks to get more out of the desk. FYI - If you lift the hood on the console, you'll find a ton of transformers. I believe they are all 2503's.
👍 I really need to talk to API directly and get some straight answers about that. I know all of the Mic Preamps have them.
I don't know what happened to your comment with the SOS link? but yeah you're right it does look like 16 transformers down there. Again I got to talk to them and find out exactly what's going on. At first I thought the insert sends on each of the summing channels were transformer balanced but the manual doesn't specify, it just says "balanced". if that's what those are it's good to know because you're not getting any benefit unless you use the insert.
@@hopetownsound Yes they are transformer coupled (balanced). It's a great desk, built just like a 1608 and 2448. I'm very impressed and excited.
Trying to find a source as well, but it is my understanding that ALL inputs and outputs have transformers.
@@ttyylleerr Correct, all outputs are.
Purple Audio rules🔥
i visited Andy last month and got my MC77's tuned up. Great guy. it's amazing that company is just him.
Would you comment or doing a video on how you use the API in tracking? Do you create artist mixes in the Box and do you use the talkback mic, etc. You did a great job of explaining the mixing scenario. I am trying to justify purchasing the Box. I need it to perform as an input console for drum tracking as you do as well as mixing. The only question is how to integrate it in tracking since it only has eight mic preamps,etc. Thanks for a great video!
Yeah there's no question that this is not really a tracking console. it's fantastic that they expanded the left side to 8 channels, but it's really sort of a glorified summing console.
I tend to prefer API preamps for drums anyway, but after the first 8 channels I'm just going to outboard preamps the same way I was doing anyway.
unlike some people I actually enjoy having the 500 series rack on the left side. it's nice for both recording and mixing to have equalizers that don't need to be patched. I think there is a gain in terms of sound quality from that.
i'm sure that API is hoping you will get addicted to their sound with this console and then upgrade to a 1608 for the functionality. of course the leap in price is no small thing lol. My issue is that even if I had a 1608 I would still want to be using outboard preamps for different flavors and a lot of it wouldn't get used, in recording anyway. 8 API pres is enough of that flavor for me.
The API 2 bus 2500+ compressor sounds better than two 527's and offer more features. So I would go with that if you want another API compressor
well, I wanted more channel compressors anyway, so I did get a pair of 527a's, but you're right, i think i would enjoy a 2500 on the mix buss. its so valuable that on the BOX you are able to route the built in comps to channels.
yep dude you have enough good equpiment there to sound as good as anybody! time to make some bad ass music!
👍
If I understood correctly, you were able to basically send the drum channel through the summer section to your distressor and then send the distress back to another channel, and then you can mix your dry signal and wet signal, which is parallel compression?
more or less. I have the drums coming up on the left side of the console so the individual channels are passing through the 500 series processors and any inserts that I'm using, then I'm using the stereo aux bus (Aux 3/4) to send a drum mix to the Distressors (2 of them). then, yes, The return from the Distressors comes back on two channels (for stereo).
The original drum channels on the left side of the console are still individually bussed to the mix output (API calls it the Program out) and i blend the distressors returns in with them (parallel)
I apologize if you’ve touched on this before… I have a D.W. Fearn VT-1 and it sounds so good that the tracking comp I’ve been using is robbing the tone…
Which comp in your possession do you think retains the fidelity/depth of the pre the best?
Ha!!! no i haven't touched on that but i 1000% feel this issue lol.
I can tell you what the Hazelrigg's answer would be to this... get a VNE or VT7. and that probably is the best answer.
However, even owning a VT7, my go to for vocal recording is a distressor and an LA2a (I use the audioscape clone) - both used sparingly. And I accept that it does reduce the sound quality a little, but the VT mic preamp is so dynamic that for almost all music you need some kind of limiter after it. part of the problem is I keep my VT7 patched on my mix buss. I probably should use it more in recording. there's just something about the combination of the Distressor and the LA2a that really works. The Vocal's basically done at that point.
great question! 👍
are you using any hardware inserts from your interface in the daw before hitting the box as well?
Sure, i'll patch in outboard gear. my go to vocal chain is the DW Fearn preamp into BAE EQ, then distressor into LA2a.
4:25 - Looks like you need a 2500 for the 2buss... ;)
lol! maybe so. right now i'm good 👍😉
I'm thinking the same. The obvious choice is the API 2500 in Inserts across the 2-Bus.
Then you can Gain-Stage properly, plus keep your Drum Sound.
Honestly, in my experience, even on the SSLs people would Insert out to Other Flavors of Bus-Comp (Neve 33609, API 2500, matched pairs of other Comps), then repurpose the on board for Drum Bus glue or Parallel crush.
To your example of "too much SSL" changing your glue changes that equation.
I have an Audient ASP2802.
It was basically the beta-test for a bunch of the mixers that came later, and Very similar to the BOX2.
8-LFC Mic Pres.
No EQs.
Stereo Bus Compressor.
32-channels of Summing.
I hated the original BOX but this one is pretty hard to beat function for price, especially if you Track modest amounts and Mix Hybrid.
I love the workflow of the BOX, even the unique angle, if you are a one-man operation. Everything is in reach.
But...
For me I couldn't justify certain compromises, since I already have something quite close.
First a 412 and a 2500, that's a lot of the sound already.
The 8-bay 500 rack is convenient, but...
As you mentioned, the routing is actually limited, and all my gear is normalled through Bays.
My little old 2802 also surprisingly has a more comprehensive center section (for me the killer feature is Solo-in-Front).
AND...it's also a Dual-Layer Control Surface with 8 channels of flying-faders and mute-automation in Analog .
(About all I need for post-analog compression automation in the Analog realm)
Sorry for the detour.
I really do Love the BOX, and you're video of your setup/workflow/journey.
It seems like the PERFECT centerpiece to your laboratory.
Subscribing now...
If you’re running a home studio and you don’t ever plan on recording drums do you think the Box would be overkill? I’d just be doing guitars bass and maybe piano. Thanks
well, it may be more Mic preamps than you'll ever need, but it depends on how big your mixing projects are.
The way this tends to work you buy the board thinking you're going to use it for analog summing because they have that feature that bypasses the faders, but the longer you have it the more you realize how much better it would Sound if you were actually just doing Analog mixing. And that gets expensive making sure you have good equalizer's and compressors for all of your important channels and you need outboard fx because you want to be able to send to the effects after they've been processed. And if you start using channels for fx returns... they can get eaten up pretty quickly.
Analog mixing is exactly the rush that mixing in the box isn't lol. But to do it right it's not cheap.
if you already have preamps, it'd be a lot less expensive to do the SSL route, but there's a ton of magic in the API Sound and I don't regret a penny of it.
@@hopetownsound thanks for the reply. I have a 2 channel Neve 1073, a couple of distressor's, a Pultec EQ P-1A and a Chandler RS124. I think just getting a two channel API pre should be fine so I can use it for other colors. I've heard the API sounds better on acoustic guitars, and electrics than the Neve so that's a big part of me wanting one. haha
Still digging the UC1? Is it part of yout template on every channel?
Definitely! I just did a two hour mix the other day, wouldn't have been possible that fast without that controller. and the plug-ins are great. I even use them on the stuff that's going through the left side of the API with the analog processing. it's just a great SSL vibe. very flexible too it works on all instruments. you may still wanna add things after it like pultecs or fairchild plug-ins to make things bigger and warmer, but it does a great job as far as the channel strip goes. and the bus compressor is awesome and the mix and drum buses. I came in pretty skeptical but SSL did a very good job.
@@hopetownsound Awesome! :)
Do you think this might be a great choice for rap/HipHop production?
it will sound great for rap/hip hop. The only thing is its best for people thar already have a bunch of analog outboard gear. if you're starting from scratch... then its a lot to add good EQs.
it depends on your budget. API sounds great for hip-hop, but if you're looking to spend $10-$20,000 including EQ's, then you might want to look at some other options. Audient, Trident or SSL.
I think API sounds better but, the BOX was made for people that already had a bunch of outboard gear.
If you don't have that gear, then all of a sudden the economics of the 1608 console start to make sense (it has 16 preamps and 16 EQs).
Do you do any delay compensation when you send DAW to API inserts for compression etc?
im not sending to the inserts. im sending to line inputs. theres is no delay with analog circuits, but even if there was it wouldn't matter because every part of the mix is summing in the API. it doesnt have to synch with anything in the DAW.
in a more recent video, I discuss using a plug-in reverb from an aux send on the api. In that situation, I do have to worry about delay. The answer with that is to zero the pre-delay in the reverb and let the system delay act as the pre-delay.
Im considering the API Box. Question, If using the 8 inputs with the pre's on the left to mix drums coming in from your daw, can you group those 8 channels on the left to a stereo pair on the right like a Bus to process the entire drum mix? Also, how do you find the API Pre's when pushed for colour?
it would be a little odd in terms of patching, but I suppose it's possible. If you look in my videos, one of the early ones when I just got the board is about creating a drum bus using the AUX sends. Personally, I have my D/A converters directly patched to the line inputs (all 24) so I had to bring my group back through the "Sum Input" on the master channel.
if you instead have the line inputs for the right side of the mixer come up on a patch bay then there's no reason why you couldn't patch the output of your AUX to 2 channels on the right. part of my issue with that is also losing 2 more channels. But it might be worth it. I ultimately solved the problem by getting the SSL X Desk and using that as a drum sub mixer. this also reserves the precious few AUX sends for FX.
I might switch things around, however, and use the SSL for effect returns and use the Cue send to create the drum group (also returned to the SSL)
hope this wasn't too much of an answer lol.
@@hopetownsound Thank you, I really appreciate your in-depth reply.
If the "Box" had a couple Buses it would be the perfect kit. There's room for bus faders right next to the master fader too.
Obviously from a mixing / summing perspective coming in to the Pre's with your drum stems is the ideal setup to get that API sound and saturation we want on drums, but we need to sum those drum channels to a bus for group processing before hitting the two bus.
This would have made this mixer the perfect summing mixer for DAWs in my opinion. The way its configured its more like a sidecar with summing options. A missed opportunity for API.
Im a real fan of APIs sound but I might have to go the SSL XL-Desk just for the routing but I want colour so that's not a real solution either.
Decisions, decisions lol.
API has definitely purposefully left out some functionality to encourage people to upgrade. and it worked. I do want to upgrade but it's a heavy lift to go up to a 1608. I'm getting by for now just adding that little SSL.
@@hopetownsound Yes it was definitely a marketing decision to not affect their sales on higher spec models. The 1608 is a massive jump price wise and that's for a 16 channel while the Box is essentially 24 tho obviously 16 are just summing but still worth mentioning.
I honestly think no one has made a perfect summing desk for hybrid mixing purposes yet unless you start looking at the very few "modular" style desks (Looptrotter) around that can be configured with 500 slot gear but man, they want an absolute fortune for basically an empty desk with faders!
The 1608 has flexibility thats not obvious, but yes... still a big jump. The part that you cant appreciate until you have it is the API sound. The Box is unique in how no-compromise it is. And the preamps are great. There no comparison with SSL pres. Also the flexibility to use the built in 527 comps on channel or the mix bus, even the 1608 doesn't have that. Soundwise...you're working on a $100k+ console. And that's very addictive :)
Hi, how do you record vocals without latency? How do you hear your voice back in your headphones in real time?
well, with an analog mixer you can just use aux sends from your input channel.
most audio interfaces also have a way to monitor before going to the computer.
The easiest way, however, is to just lower the recording buffer in your DAW and don't run any heavy plug-ins. Then you can go through the computer with very minimal latency.
@@hopetownsound Thank you. However, I do not want latency or buffer issues.
I understand what you mean by using the Mixer via aux sends, but I do not have a mixer like yours.
The last option is to use an interface to monitor my voice before it hits the daw, but no reverb, and what interface? I really have not seen one that does this.
any UA Apollo interface can give you zero latency monitoring and run UAD plug-ins with no latency, including reverbs.
And just because you run through the computer with very minimal latency doesn't mean you'll have issues. There are lots of reverbs that don't introduce latency, if the buffer is low enough, it would be imperceptible. I don't know what DAW you are using, but a buffer of 128 should be just fine for low latency recording and running a Reverb.
Cubase actually has a button that disables all high latency plug-ins while you're recording. The different DAW's all handle it differently.
@@hopetownsound Thank you 🙏
Ever have trouble with the mic pres?
nope
Peace. How many channels to the Two Mix on the Box?
um, 2 lol. it's a stereo Fader.
ah "to" the 2 mix! got it. there are 24 line inputs and a stereo summing input, so 26 total. All of the 24 line inputs have inserts too.
Reached out to API: There are no transformers in the summing workflow.
EMAIL:
A. Are there any transformers in the BOX 2 summing signal path, so that you can drive transformers on the way in from the DAW and before the master?
B. If not, are there other workflows to consider?
C. What is the best way to utilize the transformers on the master with proper gain staging?
RESPONSE:
Hello,
A. There are no transformers in the summing channels.
B. Not that I can think of.
C. I am not sure what you mean by that. The transformers are used to provide galvanic isolation, I don't know how else to use them except for signal passing through.
--
Best Regards,
Philip Cappelli
API Assistant Service Director
8301 Patuxent Range Rd
Jessup, MD 20794
yes, this is what i was told. there really isn't a gan staging on the master bus per se... it's just about how hard you hit the output from the master fader. I wish there was a way to stage the gain pre-insert, but the only way is by adjusting the mix itself.
If there is no transformers for the signal path of the summing workflow, but there are inserts, could you add something to beef the sound up? And I believe there’s a insert before the program output so you can add something, like a limiter. And isn’t the point of a summer to have some form of transformer to help glue the sound and enhance the sound?
Ps. I don’t own one, but I’m researching as I’m considering getting one .
@@synthdude7664 yes you could. the main outputs do have transformers tho.
its not such a big deal for me. all my preamps have transformers (and EQs and compressors) so my tracks have already hit them in recording. i do always use the master insert
@@hopetownsound the part that baffles me and I don’t understand well, is the 500 series. Once they’re installed, you can’t add something through the insert AND use the 500 series, right? Like if I had a 550a installed and wanted to insert a compressor as well to have a signal chain preamp, eq , compressor . I think you mentioned once you insert something it’ll completely replace the 500 series
@@synthdude7664 Yes, you can use the 500 series and the insert on the same channel. The 500 series is automatically in the channel path, there's no bypass for it in the board. you would have to bypass from the EQ itself. In theory you could use a 500 EQ, then on the first 4 channels, the built in 527 compressor, and the channel insert.
only 2 transformers in the console as far as mixing? Wow makes this not worth it to me. I have more transformers in my summming mixer
Well there's a picture on the SOS review that clearly shows 16 Transformers on the summing side. so I think I got some wrong information there. either way the board sounds fantastic.
Your voltage is low
actually, that was the old building. in the new space it's generally a little bit of 120.
Great gear, and I’m really interested in this type of content..but you comunícate as a closed book..An advise, if you Let me.. “study” what you are going to say or edit the vídeo to cut those ah, am, aaaa.. will simply improve the quality of the channel . It’s so unconfortable to listen to it..
I'm sorry you're finding it uncomfortable. It's something I am aware of and I try to work on, but really I'm busy with work and I'm knocking these videos out in one take in my very spare free time. it's just sharing things that I find inspiring with no pretense of a prepared or professional delivery. if it's not for you, I totally understand. i've been as surprised as anyone that they've gained in popularity lol.
hopefully I will improve over time. 🙏
Thanks for taking the time to watch and to comment. ✌️
@@hopetownsound hey! It was Just an advice. I'm sure this channel is going to grow up and 'll be there to see It.. you have one subscriber more 👍
Bro ,respectful y,every piece of gear you have I have had or have right now… you need to get ATCs,,pm are not up to snuff for what you have..
I don't have anything positive to say about that comment. Obviously I don't agree.
UC1 only controls its own SSL emulation. No other plugins. It's 100%dedicated. Also the best bus and channel SSL 9000 XL emulation you can find
yes it only controls its own plug-ins. Although SSL has said that they will be releasing additional plug-ins for it.
I do feel it's the best plug-in emulation for SSL. I have the UAD E channel and G Bus and the Plugin Alliance J, they're both very nice but that's all good this is, it's better.
@@hopetownsound just the SSL bus and channel strips so to me that's just one thing. Going to be hard to shoe anything else in there because it's an SSL 4000/9000 layout but maybe small variations thereof. Just don't expect an API emulation :-) not from SSL LOL. They just added a transport control though which is really cool. The magic is really they're plugging mixer 360 app which connects them all kind of like a gigantic Hardware mixer
@@levondarratt787 yeah i'm not expecting anything. its great just for what it is