Hey Mr. Masters I’ve got soundcraft signature 22 multitrack, it’s a analog mixer and interface. I am using it mostly for tracking, but because it’s an interface as well I can send everything back to the console, that’s what I did to mix my first album, I know it’s not the high level console but it does the job , I do techno and electronic music though, so I needed the it to jam live with it. Watching your channel for about 3 years, since I build my home studio , your studio build was insanely helpful! Thank you!
There's a few ways to get around not being about to simply use the monitor knob as a direct out send level. The first option I know of is to set the direct out to pre fader by changing an internal shunt (SHUNT2 as seen in the top of the Input-Module-Flow-Diagram). The easier option is to use the insert point to break the signal path. Connect the insert send to your interface input and then connect the insert return to your interface output. This allows you to record with EQ and still use pre fader sends on the analog signal path but use the large faders to mix your pro tools outputs. Hope this helps!
Very true it's less than ideal, but should you decide to make this your primary workflow you could calibrate your IO input level accordingly to compensate, if they have the option.@@AndrewMasters
Nice vid. Are you sure that there aren't jumpers under the covers that will allow the monitor section to hit your direct outs? My cheap A&H Mix-Wiz has that feature.
I love working on a console, and I use tape maybe 1/3 of the time. Consoles like that trident that aren’t really “inline” would be horrible for tape. While you are tracking, you have to mix on those red monitor knobs. I settled on an Otari Status 18R…a hidden gem! Full inline modular channel strips with small and large faders (can be “flipped” like ssl), 4 band EQ that can be split between paths, 1 stereo and 6 mono aux sends, full recall of all knobs, switches and faders, as well as VCA fader and switch automation. Oh yeah, and dynamics on channels 1-24….and a full tt patchbay. I had to do some work to get it fully functioning, but it’s great now. All the features of an SSL for about $6000. Sonically it is very hifi and neutral.
1 suggestion, since you are mixing in the box, wouldn't make sense to switch places with the mixing station? PROS: Then you are not mixing with 1 ear, and the console get's a bit out of the way.
Nice studio and workflow there. I added mix bus processing to my vintage Trident 80B 32 input console. (Yes, it's a massive console, my main gripe but it's an impression maker for visitors and it's immediate and sounds great with my upgraded power supply.) The mix buss processing makes the mix bus jump off the speakers. I ended up with an API stereo EQ and an SSL Compressor on the mix buss. Sounds great.
Love my Studiolive 64s . Also as a Drummer , I have many channels / effects to work with in my Home Studio and one button to DAW mode Studio One 6 . Everything links up immediately with faders. Sweetwater is Great !
OK - I will not do that, but massive respect for the no-screen set-up!!! Btw I cannot believe how brilliant duplicating master faders on the board by sending the master out of the DAW back into channel 1-2 is. Simple. Clean. Brilliant. No need for a summing mixer with complex routing and you can A/B between mixes easily. I am absolutely going to do this in my next studio!!!
You can move an internal jumper to get your direct outs pre-fader. I’m not sure if that solves everything, but it would make your fader mix separate from your input levels. Alternatively, you could mult your insert sends to your converters for additional flexibility (you’ll need a patchbay or two for this). Alternatively AGAIN 😆, you can leverage your bus outputs for additional level control that is somewhat independent of the channel faders. For automation and recall, I use WesAudio ngLEVELERs for automation on my console. 2 units gives me enough for my channel strips, 8 buses, and fx sends. Makes automation a lot more fun. I just leave my faders at unity and use an xtouch for automation/fader moves. I’m also mixing OTB a lot so it made sense for my workflow. There’s also built in saturation on each channel, which is a nice little plus.
We have a big-arsed old live desk in the studio that doesn't sport any short faders, but we only use it like a "split" desk whilst tracking. The rest of the time it functions as a normal desktop under a sheet of clear acrylic/perspex just for aesthetics. Useful for scoring/scripting etc Also, as it's at a slight angle in desk mode, it's "self cleaning" as all the clutter and crap just slides off 🤭
That's how I do it on my Soundcraft 1600, the mic/line button is mic in the up position and line return for mixdown in the down position. Basically using Reaper like a 24 track tape machine bouncing the main mix down to 2 track in the same project. Only need to look at the screen to get levels and arm tracks in tracking and add plugins, edit, or automate individual tracks durring mixing.
This is a great comment section. OK I have the same Trident 68, I'm not tracking a band, I'm more home home production,. But there's a ton of flexibility on the input section, he's not probably explored all the options. You' have mic/line seletion, then you have a switch at the top to change your main (use fader) input to monitor or the aforemention line/mic. You also can assign eq section to either. And I believe you can use them BOTH simultaneously in a mix down, one assigned to the fader and the other the knob. So, you could have line and mic both feeding from your DAW/ Interface. I count at least seventy inputs available at mix on this 24/8 Series 68.
This may just be one of your most important vidoes ever..,- and one of the most beautiful. :) Question though: Doesn´t the Trident have some way of choosing a DI-Out on every channel? Normally you would be able to choose between going DI-out either before,- or after,- the eq,- but still before the signal hits the faders. If it does, in theory, you should be able to track some channels to the AD/DA converters right after the channel preamp,- on other channels you would use the eq section and send it DI-out on the individual channels -after- the eq section but - before - the faders. That way you could have a full performance mix of an entire band based on both the eq settings on the various channels without them hitting the DAW and the eq-wet channels alike and level match all channels via the fader settings grouped to 8 or 16 subchannels going to the master stereo bus and still have all individual channels recorded via the DI-outs separately. Hope this thought makes sense.
Another cool vid Andrew. I still use my,......wait for it.....Mackie 8 bus and expander as strictly a big patchbay for my collection of synths only. It's a holdover from my analog R2R and then ADAT days. As you mentioned, it's really only so all of my synths are live and ready to go any at point in time. I do really miss mixing on a console, but the recall aspect of mixing in the box is hard to beat....I do not miss fumbling with track sheets. But in terms of hybrid.....I work in the same manner....I track through Focusrite ISA or Warm Audio preamps and compressor, then mix through the WA bus compressor and WA tube EQ's. I have also pumped it through my WA273 EQ and it does add a little body as well.
I keep old analog live consoles in my home studio for tracking, and I love it! Monitor mixes for the band are easy, monitoring in the control room has more options, you can do fun things like chaining channels to overdrive the pres, and the best part is not having to use the Waves VU meter plugin anymore!
@AndrewMasters Great video ....the lights you have on the left and right, with the adjustable arms... What brand and where from? Those lights would solve an issue I have over my desk.
Hi Andrew, I have the same Trident 68 console but have nto found a great desk to put it on. Your desk looks great. Was it custom made or did you find a premade one? Thanks.. love the video and I love my console. I will mix through it at times but that is for fun.. it is really fun to control a mix through the console
Just got a ssl x-desk and routing on it is insane. Each ch has 2 selectable input sources; 1 for daw or 1 for mic input so you can switch between tracking and mixing with 1 button. Range of the line amp on each ch makes gain staging a breeze. It’s great for attenuating hot signals coming in during tracking and for boosting signals going out of the daw during mix down. Being able to crack the gain into analog gear on each individual bus before its summed down to the 2 bus is just so addictive. Best purchase ever. Has me looking at a Wes audio ngleveler to add to the end of my channel inserts to control the overall level of each instrument bus. Andrew have you tried or looked into the NgLeveler?
As for your "do-not-like" point no.1: Theoretically, it should be possible to split the console in half and integrate your DAW-monitor and the UF-8/UC-1 in the middle. The Trident is a modular design, so you should be able to separate the first two channel buckets (channels 1-16). I saw this setup in some studio somewhere, if I remember correctly.
I’m current running an SSL Big Six in my home studio. Normally, it’s perma-wired for tracking a 4-mic drum setup (Kick, Snare, Knee, Overhead). But I use it pretty often for summing groups out of my DAW template. I get the bus compressor and some additional analog spice from the SSL Fusion as an insert. I have the console and some rack hardware in a sidecar that slides perfectly under my studio desk, so I can get it out of the way for sessions where I’m fully in-the-box.
You should check Harrison consoles for smaller boards that have some of the features you talk about wanting if I'm not mistaken - really really underrated boards!!!
I used to have a Toft Audio ATB24 as the front end to my studio and the way you wished your monitor/ Direct Out situation worked is almost what I had with the ATB. In my case, the faders were selected as Post Fader (internal toggle switch in the channel cards) to control level into my DAW and my Monitor section is where I put my Control Room mix up during live tracking sessions. (I could flip back to the main LR / fader listen for dialing in tones & listening for any unwanted distortion) A few years ago, I swapped over to a system of 40 external mic pre channels into a patch bay, where I could go straight to my PT HD audio interfaces or patch in outboard processing first. I then replaced that ATB section with an Avid S3. Now that I do a ton of webcasting & client session casting from my studio, the S3 has turned into a Behringer WING and Midas DL32. It is the mixing engine for my webcasts, drives the headphone mixes around my studio, and serves as a control surface with whichever DAW I’m using that day (usually PT, but not always) My audio interface is now an Avid MTRX Studio with PT HD Native Thunderbolt. I have tons of options now thanks to Dante. 1) Mic Pre’s with or without outboard processing straight into the Studio MTRX. 2) Mult’ed signals from the mic pre’s always hit the WING (headphone mixes for musicians) and/or 3) If I want to use some of the processing in the WING (EQ, compression, tape saturation, etc), I can use Dante to get that treated sound into my PT session. Although it’s a lot to wrap your mind around for each session, all of the options are now finally available for me. (And the WING processing is a real sleeper. Folks have not caught on to how good it sounds yet. Want a Neve or Focuseite EQ? Their’s sounds great!!)
thats a SUPER setup! man! I love that you have always ready to record, that has been always my main directive which determined my studio development (btw, those Footprints 01 look amazing! 🔊 👍 👍 👍 the best in monitors imho)
I have a personal studio, and I elected to go with the relatively new NEVE 8424. I primarily track bands remotely using StudioOne software and STUDIOLIVE 24R, (never underestimate the clarity of EXMAX preamps) and then I use the Neve for mixing. Couple that to a pair of ATC SCM24As monitors and the songs practically mix themselves. The mix bus on this console which includes the optional 2264, 500 series compressors, has a serious WOW factor coming from the monitors Andrew, I really enjoy your videos, please keep them coming, thanks
I have always worked hybrid and on consoles. I am in the process of buying a large format console. I have been using a 48 channel Allen & heath console. consoles are big and heavy and some require extensive maintenance but the big wide full analog sound can't be beat and is totally worth the headaches. I am in Clarksville which is 45 minutes north of Nashville
so essentially you need a bunch of preamps, some splits for preamp outputs (like that send for the vocal reverb), maybe some hw EQs to have quick access to color of the vocal or bass or whatever (or couple of channel strips), an RME soundcard with TotalMix for all the low latency routing for monitoring, and you can control it all from a small controller and with a mouse, or with some more faders available on SSL controllers if you want multiple faders for mixing, and the large console is gone
Great setup although the reverse of my workflow. I record everything through my outboard pre's and mix on my console. The beauty of your setup is you could go either way with very little effort. Well done!
Oh man I bought a soundcraft series 500 24 channel and it’s beautiful but it weighs a ton. I’m still working on it to get the output buses working, it was modified fir television broadcast and is not the standard model so it’s taking a bit to figure out what’s changed over the years. It has stuff I don’t see on the typical series 500. I bought t for mixing not tracking but it sounds so good, I’m going to have to test both options. Nice vid bud
I think the best use of the console is for tracking in your situation. Trying to mix on it would involve too many compromises. Better to mix in the box.
If you want a second level control use the busses to feed input to Pro tools instead of direct out. The 8 stereo busses will give you 16-channels into the I0 of your computer. Only downside is that you have to use pan tilt 100% L-R to get 16ch mono separation. Using the mix-B section for fast monitor mixes are very useful. To get same levels as in Pro Tools just set all the knobs to unity level on mix B and send from multitrack output pro tools into MiX-B return channel. Routing should be after fader directly out from Pro tools. On some mixers you have a tilt switch between Mix-B and big faders for fast switching between monitoring and mixing.
Good video - interesting. I do thing differently. I have an Audient 4816, which is an inline console. This solves the problem you have with consoles. Each channel strip can be used for monitoring or tracking.
@Andrew Masters love the console and hybrid setup - that's a really cool mixer. So, from my understanding, the Trident board doesn't have a dedicated tape return or something similar?
I recently purchased a Trident 68 16ch unit, and next week I am hooking everything up. It’s my first console, and I’m really intimidated by the process of routing everything. Does anyone have any resources they might suggest for me to go through? Videos, texts, etc. Thanks!
Great video! I agree with Con 2, and that is why I don't have an analog console. My first pro studio was an SSL 400G+. I wish there were a less expensive console with direct outs on faders. I have been using Duality 48 a lot over the past ten years, and really like the flying faders for instant recall when working on lots of projects over a short time, but controllers basically do the same thing. I just finished a new design/install at Santa Rosa Junior College and a excited to see it up and running. I'll send you info about privately.
The Trident 68 (and 78, 88) could be so much better with a few changes. Tracking on the short fader plus motorized faders sync'd with the DAW is what's needed. The SSL AWS series does this (for a ton more money), but so does the A&H GS-R24M (discontinued). The Trident has great build quality and sonics....it just needs some routing mods plus motorized faders to be a really killer.
Same thing I was thinking. At 17k, a fader flip would be nice. 20 plus years ago I had a Soundtracs Topaz Project 8 that had fader flips, and it was much less expensive. I know this is probably a "better sounding" and built console, but fader flip seems like a no-brainer for companies to put on "studio consoles".
Can you direct out from the small faders on the 88? I’ve worked on the Tridents for years, they just don’t come as user friendly, cost effective and great sounding as the Trident. 96 inputs not including inserts and aux’s for $18k. Crazy.
You have a very cool setup. I’ve been down the analog path with a lower quality desk. Today I use a Presonus StudioLive 16 series 3. That goes out to mixes and aux, when I’m properly setup, (interim to UAD Apollo). The StudioLive gives me enough inputs for now, I can expand over AVB. It acts great for tracking then you can switch to automation and Daw control.
That's how I use my StudioLive 64S. I have 32 inputs on the back of the mixer plus another 32 on the NSB32.16 module. I also have 64in/64out over USB ASIO driver. I can hit DAW button and control the first 64 faders in StudioOne with the mixer (for doing automation work, whatever), without disrupting my mix. I also have enough inputs on those 64in/out to bring back full busses for sending to offboard gear (in stereo) and then returning the inputs. So I can bring my vox, guitar, bass, drum, synth, etc busses back out to the mixer, through offboard gear, and back in to StudioOne for separate concurrent outboard mixing of every separate mix bus the project uses. StudioLive mixers with that expansion capability are great for tracking and mixing.
Love the AMS rmx 16 , blows the plug-ins away. HDX and an S3 or S1’s work like a console. No latency monitoring all the aux sends with hardware inserts you want . I would never get a console again…. Unless it was a super sexy one .
Started on Teac Model 15, then TAC Scorpion 1 (24x16), then TAC Scorpion 2 (32x8), then (2) Amek Mozarts (40 inline with 17 Rupert Neve input modules)(the other is a 40 frame short loaded with 27 inputs). Still have the Scorpions and Mozarts
Can you do a video where you divulge your mix bus settings on the WA compressor and eqs? I'd imagine a lot of people watching your channel are using those two pieces of gear and would be very interested in how you massage the mix bus. Thanks!
Hi Andrew, thanks for this great video. Regarding your preamps: I can see you have great preamps in your racks, why did you decide to use the Trident 68s for the drums? I thought you were using the racked preamps and maybe routing them to the line in input of the Trident ? Thanks ! Cheers. Thomas
with all those awesome gears you have on your studio.. i wonder how do you clean and maintain all those gears from dust, moisture etc. i mean do you have a special device or just manually clean piece by piece.
The Tascam -4800 is way cheaper. (500 dollar used ) invest in good pre-amps and you’ll get the same or even better sound. You can even run pluggings through the desk with soft inserts. Remote layers for any DAW. I ❤ Tascam!
I love the RMX16. Sounds amazing. Random question: what stand are you using for the Amaran soft boxes behind your console? I'm needing something along those lines. Thanks!
Love the content Andrew, should have saved yourself a ton of $$$$$ and space and gotten the console 1 faders.. I think you got the console for nostalgia, aesthetics, and maybe a little ego?! Cant blame you... See you next week!
That console is awesome. I learned on an SSL4000 years ago in college but I’m running a SPL mixdream with a pulse16 as a digital patch bay. Gotta have some analogue goodness 😅
I mixed live bands and singers for 10 + years as a young man. Now I am starting to record in a studio setup and its a real challenge, could I ask why you are using so much hardware when you can simply mix and eq in a software package. Other than recording a clear digital signal for work afterwards in your softeware I dont understand the need for all your hardware. Please let me know what Im not understanding this way. Thank you
The thought is that hardware gets recordings sounding finished and professional right off the bat with minimal time spent. Mixing in the box digitally enjoys having that weight baked into the recordings
To me analog and hardware sounds so much better than plug ins- remember plug ins are trying to emulate the real thing -there’s a reason plug ins are50 bucks and hardware is thousands
If you can find a reliable tech, I’ll be real, at big studios I’ve worked at we mod the console for what we need. Some techs can be quite crafty at getting us some features we wish the consoles had to begin with. Consoles have always been a custom thing back in the day for whatever routing and signal flow people have going on. We all have such unique needs ✌️ awesome setup dude!
Regarding complain #1, I wonder if you built a temporary/removable wood cover to lay over a portion of the mixer and place your monitor/keyboard/mouse/control surface on it for when you are mixing. I'm thinking you could put the cover below your meter bridge. If you put it on top of the meter bridge it could impact the sound from the monitor speakers (reflections etc). The only gotcha is there may not be enough space between the top of the channels and the meters to slip the wood support. The other issue might be the computer monitor causing reflections...so maybe you would set that on the meter bridge between the speakers. Anyway, just a thought...which you may already have considered anyway.
I think if I were to go back to that style of setup I might keep the split bay desk and move the console to a sidecar position.. Which would be weird and funny.
@@AndrewMasters when I had a console (back when a Mackie 32/8 was new) it sat on the side, and controllers were in front of me along with a pair of 19in CRT screens in the center console section...which was like having two old school TVs on the desk HAHA
I've got some warm amps and an ssl 6. Also, don't really use my warm amps as much anymore, and all my compressors are routed half normal in patchbays to the six. Just myself in a little room a 10th the size of your space. I would love to have more space . Got to use all your gear as often as possible 👍
Tridents are great consoles but their in line options are quite clunky and really not great. At Treasure Isle we have a 80 series that’s falling apart so we mostly use it for returns only. Although It’s a great sounding console, we typically use our abundance of outboard pres but some engineers come in and use the onboard pres (even though they’re quite noisy) on the way in and they avoid using the in line option. It’s a very large desk, so typically we have the real estate on the left side to use the large fader to send to protools or tape and all returns happen on the right side of the master section.
its actually the only 80 5.1 custom in the US as far as I'm aware. Certain channels are the original 80-B and others are "The Blue Channel" which was an attempt to make an improved version of the 80-B. both sound great, but still a bit noisy on the pres. @@jhowe5571
Doesn’t the Toft version of this board have a switch that flips the baby faders (the pots) and the big faders for switching between input mixing to mix down?
Hey man! Sub since day one here! Thinking out loud: I guess that 90% of the time you’re tracking your monitors will be muted and you’ll be using headphones. On the other hand, while you’re mixing you’re constantly listening through your monitors. So why wouldn’t you switch the “in the box setup” and your console? At least that’s how I would work I think.
Andrew, you have an I/P reverse button which puts the Monitor into the channel path...would that work? So just track as normal, and then when it comes to mixing, you flip the path of the line and monitor. Would that do it? Can you not just track as normal, monitor through the monitoring path, and then when it comes to mixing...flip the inputs? But then...you seem not too fussed on mixing anyway. So why not just come back to the monitor inputs, flip I/P reverse button and just do some summing? You also free up some more line inputs for some more synths which you know you wanna buy haha!
The focals are fantastic speakers, but those trio 6’s just didn’t work in my room unless they were wildly far from me. I like to have my speakers closer to me and these barefoots work perfectly.
that is why we are planning to by either ssl origin 16 channel or audient 16 channel. That would solve the direct out and return problem. cheers.
Hey Mr. Masters I’ve got soundcraft signature 22 multitrack, it’s a analog mixer and interface. I am using it mostly for tracking, but because it’s an interface as well I can send everything back to the console, that’s what I did to mix my first album, I know it’s not the high level console but it does the job , I do techno and electronic music though, so I needed the it to jam live with it. Watching your channel for about 3 years, since I build my home studio , your studio build was insanely helpful! Thank you!
I have this console too!
There's a few ways to get around not being about to simply use the monitor knob as a direct out send level. The first option I know of is to set the direct out to pre fader by changing an internal shunt (SHUNT2 as seen in the top of the Input-Module-Flow-Diagram). The easier option is to use the insert point to break the signal path. Connect the insert send to your interface input and then connect the insert return to your interface output. This allows you to record with EQ and still use pre fader sends on the analog signal path but use the large faders to mix your pro tools outputs. Hope this helps!
Great tip, still not ideal getting input signal level from the preamp alone. Some of the changes can be not so subtle haha.
Very true it's less than ideal, but should you decide to make this your primary workflow you could calibrate your IO input level accordingly to compensate, if they have the option.@@AndrewMasters
Nice vid. Are you sure that there aren't jumpers under the covers that will allow the monitor section to hit your direct outs? My cheap A&H Mix-Wiz has that feature.
This is my favorite studio so far !!!
All the big recording studios just seem sooo overwhelming to me .
This fits me , i feel like i could focus there
I love working on a console, and I use tape maybe 1/3 of the time. Consoles like that trident that aren’t really “inline” would be horrible for tape. While you are tracking, you have to mix on those red monitor knobs. I settled on an Otari Status 18R…a hidden gem! Full inline modular channel strips with small and large faders (can be “flipped” like ssl), 4 band EQ that can be split between paths, 1 stereo and 6 mono aux sends, full recall of all knobs, switches and faders, as well as VCA fader and switch automation. Oh yeah, and dynamics on channels 1-24….and a full tt patchbay. I had to do some work to get it fully functioning, but it’s great now. All the features of an SSL for about $6000. Sonically it is very hifi and neutral.
1 suggestion, since you are mixing in the box, wouldn't make sense to switch places with the mixing station? PROS: Then you are not mixing with 1 ear, and the console get's a bit out of the way.
So one of the biggest benefits for me is zero latency monitoring. No worries with big projects and lots of running plugins.
great point
Nice studio and workflow there. I added mix bus processing to my vintage Trident 80B 32 input console. (Yes, it's a massive console, my main gripe but it's an impression maker for visitors and it's immediate and sounds great with my upgraded power supply.) The mix buss processing makes the mix bus jump off the speakers. I ended up with an API stereo EQ and an SSL Compressor on the mix buss. Sounds great.
Love my Studiolive 64s . Also as a Drummer , I have many channels / effects to work with in my Home Studio and one button to DAW mode Studio One 6 . Everything links up immediately with faders. Sweetwater is Great !
OK - I will not do that, but massive respect for the no-screen set-up!!! Btw I cannot believe how brilliant duplicating master faders on the board by sending the master out of the DAW back into channel 1-2 is. Simple. Clean. Brilliant. No need for a summing mixer with complex routing and you can A/B between mixes easily. I am absolutely going to do this in my next studio!!!
You can move an internal jumper to get your direct outs pre-fader. I’m not sure if that solves everything, but it would make your fader mix separate from your input levels. Alternatively, you could mult your insert sends to your converters for additional flexibility (you’ll need a patchbay or two for this).
Alternatively AGAIN 😆, you can leverage your bus outputs for additional level control that is somewhat independent of the channel faders.
For automation and recall, I use WesAudio ngLEVELERs for automation on my console. 2 units gives me enough for my channel strips, 8 buses, and fx sends. Makes automation a lot more fun. I just leave my faders at unity and use an xtouch for automation/fader moves. I’m also mixing OTB a lot so it made sense for my workflow. There’s also built in saturation on each channel, which is a nice little plus.
Don't you want to make a video on this?
We have a big-arsed old live desk in the studio that doesn't sport any short faders, but we only use it like a "split" desk whilst tracking. The rest of the time it functions as a normal desktop under a sheet of clear acrylic/perspex just for aesthetics. Useful for scoring/scripting etc
Also, as it's at a slight angle in desk mode, it's "self cleaning" as all the clutter and crap just slides off 🤭
What interface / AD Converters are you using to get your analog desk into your DAW?
That's how I do it on my Soundcraft 1600, the mic/line button is mic in the up position and line return for mixdown in the down position. Basically using Reaper like a 24 track tape machine bouncing the main mix down to 2 track in the same project. Only need to look at the screen to get levels and arm tracks in tracking and add plugins, edit, or automate individual tracks durring mixing.
This is a great comment section. OK I have the same Trident 68, I'm not tracking a band, I'm more home home production,. But there's a ton of flexibility on the input section, he's not probably explored all the options. You' have mic/line seletion, then you have a switch at the top to change your main (use fader) input to monitor or the aforemention line/mic. You also can assign eq section to either. And I believe you can use them BOTH simultaneously in a mix down, one assigned to the fader and the other the knob. So, you could have line and mic both feeding from your DAW/ Interface. I count at least seventy inputs available at mix on this 24/8 Series 68.
How did you decide that you liked the sound of the channel strips in the console? Did you get to try it out somewhere before you bought it?
This may just be one of your most important vidoes ever..,- and one of the most beautiful. :)
Question though:
Doesn´t the Trident have some way of choosing a DI-Out on every channel?
Normally you would be able to choose between going DI-out either before,- or after,- the eq,- but still before the signal hits the faders.
If it does, in theory, you should be able to track some channels to the AD/DA converters right after the channel preamp,- on other channels you would use the eq section and send it DI-out on the individual channels -after- the eq section but - before - the faders.
That way you could have a full performance mix of an entire band based on both the eq settings on the various channels without them hitting the DAW and the eq-wet channels alike and level match all channels via the fader settings grouped to 8 or 16 subchannels going to the master stereo bus and still have all individual channels recorded via the DI-outs separately.
Hope this thought makes sense.
Another cool vid Andrew. I still use my,......wait for it.....Mackie 8 bus and expander as strictly a big patchbay for my collection of synths only. It's a holdover from my analog R2R and then ADAT days. As you mentioned, it's really only so all of my synths are live and ready to go any at point in time. I do really miss mixing on a console, but the recall aspect of mixing in the box is hard to beat....I do not miss fumbling with track sheets. But in terms of hybrid.....I work in the same manner....I track through Focusrite ISA or Warm Audio preamps and compressor, then mix through the WA bus compressor and WA tube EQ's. I have also pumped it through my WA273 EQ and it does add a little body as well.
I keep old analog live consoles in my home studio for tracking, and I love it! Monitor mixes for the band are easy, monitoring in the control room has more options, you can do fun things like chaining channels to overdrive the pres, and the best part is not having to use the Waves VU meter plugin anymore!
@AndrewMasters Great video ....the lights you have on the left and right, with the adjustable arms... What brand and where from? Those lights would solve an issue I have over my desk.
Hi Andrew, I have the same Trident 68 console but have nto found a great desk to put it on. Your desk looks great. Was it custom made or did you find a premade one? Thanks.. love the video and I love my console. I will mix through it at times but that is for fun.. it is really fun to control a mix through the console
Same here I just bought the 16 but having a hard time finding something- I’d like a wood panel over top bridge for my computer screen
Just got a ssl x-desk and routing on it is insane. Each ch has 2 selectable input sources; 1 for daw or 1 for mic input so you can switch between tracking and mixing with 1 button. Range of the line amp on each ch makes gain staging a breeze. It’s great for attenuating hot signals coming in during tracking and for boosting signals going out of the daw during mix down. Being able to crack the gain into analog gear on each individual bus before its summed down to the 2 bus is just so addictive. Best purchase ever. Has me looking at a Wes audio ngleveler to add to the end of my channel inserts to control the overall level of each instrument bus. Andrew have you tried or looked into the NgLeveler?
As for your "do-not-like" point no.1: Theoretically, it should be possible to split the console in half and integrate your DAW-monitor and the UF-8/UC-1 in the middle. The Trident is a modular design, so you should be able to separate the first two channel buckets (channels 1-16). I saw this setup in some studio somewhere, if I remember correctly.
I’m current running an SSL Big Six in my home studio.
Normally, it’s perma-wired for tracking a 4-mic drum setup (Kick, Snare, Knee, Overhead).
But I use it pretty often for summing groups out of my DAW template. I get the bus compressor and some additional analog spice from the SSL Fusion as an insert.
I have the console and some rack hardware in a sidecar that slides perfectly under my studio desk, so I can get it out of the way for sessions where I’m fully in-the-box.
You should check Harrison consoles for smaller boards that have some of the features you talk about wanting if I'm not mistaken - really really underrated boards!!!
Andrew is slowly becoming a legend! Thanks for all the videos dude!
I used to have a Toft Audio ATB24 as the front end to my studio and the way you wished your monitor/ Direct Out situation worked is almost what I had with the ATB. In my case, the faders were selected as Post Fader (internal toggle switch in the channel cards) to control level into my DAW and my Monitor section is where I put my Control Room mix up during live tracking sessions. (I could flip back to the main LR / fader listen for dialing in tones & listening for any unwanted distortion)
A few years ago, I swapped over to a system of 40 external mic pre channels into a patch bay, where I could go straight to my PT HD audio interfaces or patch in outboard processing first. I then replaced that ATB section with an Avid S3.
Now that I do a ton of webcasting & client session casting from my studio, the S3 has turned into a Behringer WING and Midas DL32. It is the mixing engine for my webcasts, drives the headphone mixes around my studio, and serves as a control surface with whichever DAW I’m using that day (usually PT, but not always)
My audio interface is now an Avid MTRX Studio with PT HD Native Thunderbolt.
I have tons of options now thanks to Dante. 1) Mic Pre’s with or without outboard processing straight into the Studio MTRX. 2) Mult’ed signals from the mic pre’s always hit the WING (headphone mixes for musicians) and/or 3) If I want to use some of the processing in the WING (EQ, compression, tape saturation, etc), I can use Dante to get that treated sound into my PT session.
Although it’s a lot to wrap your mind around for each session, all of the options are now finally available for me. (And the WING processing is a real sleeper. Folks have not caught on to how good it sounds yet. Want a Neve or Focuseite EQ? Their’s sounds great!!)
I've come to absolutely love your videos, thanks for the awesome work you do 🙏
thats a SUPER setup! man! I love that you have always ready to record, that has been always my main directive which determined my studio development (btw, those Footprints 01 look amazing! 🔊 👍 👍 👍 the best in monitors imho)
I have a personal studio, and I elected to go with the relatively new NEVE 8424. I primarily track bands remotely using StudioOne software and STUDIOLIVE 24R, (never underestimate the clarity of EXMAX preamps) and then I use the Neve for mixing. Couple that to a pair of ATC SCM24As monitors and the songs practically mix themselves. The mix bus on this console which includes the optional 2264, 500 series compressors, has a serious WOW factor coming from the monitors
Andrew, I really enjoy your videos, please keep them coming, thanks
May I ask why the choice of StudioOne as a DAW? No disrespect but it seems incongruous with a Neve 8424.
The pre fader send and return on large fader thing would be great because faders at 0 would be the mix from the DAW. Easy recall.
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I have always worked hybrid and on consoles. I am in the process of buying a large format console. I have been using a 48 channel Allen & heath console. consoles are big and heavy and some require extensive maintenance but the big wide full analog sound can't be beat and is totally worth the headaches. I am in Clarksville which is 45 minutes north of Nashville
so essentially you need a bunch of preamps, some splits for preamp outputs (like that send for the vocal reverb), maybe some hw EQs to have quick access to color of the vocal or bass or whatever (or couple of channel strips), an RME soundcard with TotalMix for all the low latency routing for monitoring, and you can control it all from a small controller and with a mouse, or with some more faders available on SSL controllers if you want multiple faders for mixing, and the large console is gone
👀
Great setup although the reverse of my workflow. I record everything through my outboard pre's and mix on my console. The beauty of your setup is you could go either way with very little effort. Well done!
Oh man I bought a soundcraft series 500 24 channel and it’s beautiful but it weighs a ton. I’m still working on it to get the output buses working, it was modified fir television broadcast and is not the standard model so it’s taking a bit to figure out what’s changed over the years. It has stuff I don’t see on the typical series 500. I bought t for mixing not tracking but it sounds so good, I’m going to have to test both options. Nice vid bud
I think the best use of the console is for tracking in your situation. Trying to mix on it would involve too many compromises. Better to mix in the box.
If you want a second level control use the busses to feed input to Pro tools instead of direct out. The 8 stereo busses will give you 16-channels into the I0 of your computer. Only downside is that you have to use pan tilt 100%
L-R to get 16ch mono separation.
Using the mix-B section for fast monitor mixes are very useful. To get same levels as in Pro Tools just set all the knobs to unity level on mix B and send from multitrack output pro tools into MiX-B return channel. Routing should be after fader directly out from Pro tools.
On some mixers you have a tilt switch between Mix-B and big faders for fast switching between monitoring and mixing.
Good video - interesting. I do thing differently. I have an Audient 4816, which is an inline console. This solves the problem you have with consoles. Each channel strip can be used for monitoring or tracking.
hell yeah, that's nice
Exactly what I wanted to say, the Audient 4816 sounds like the perfect fit for Andrew because of its inline architecture.
You can split the EQ between channel and monitor paths too and, unlike the SSL AWS948, the insert point can be engaged on both paths simultaneously.
Excellent overview with a lot of interesting thoughts and tips to consider.
Thanks!
Could you do a review on the symphony io mk2 please. Would love to see that. Also, How does it compare to the previous uad interfaces you were using ?
awesome setup but what happened to the studio tours
@Andrew Masters love the console and hybrid setup - that's a really cool mixer. So, from my understanding, the Trident board doesn't have a dedicated tape return or something similar?
I recently purchased a Trident 68 16ch unit, and next week I am hooking everything up. It’s my first console, and I’m really intimidated by the process of routing everything. Does anyone have any resources they might suggest for me to go through? Videos, texts, etc. Thanks!
There is basically nothing. I’ve made a few videos on the channel for how I planned and set it up.
Not much out there I’m in same boat
Love this workflow and seeing how much thought you put into everything.
Im integrating a Topaz inline 24/48 compact console. Really cool. I need more daw outputs, lol
Great video! I agree with Con 2, and that is why I don't have an analog console. My first pro studio was an SSL 400G+. I wish there were a less expensive console with direct outs on faders. I have been using Duality 48 a lot over the past ten years, and really like the flying faders for instant recall when working on lots of projects over a short time, but controllers basically do the same thing. I just finished a new design/install at Santa Rosa Junior College and a excited to see it up and running. I'll send you info about privately.
The Trident 68 (and 78, 88) could be so much better with a few changes. Tracking on the short fader plus motorized faders sync'd with the DAW is what's needed. The SSL AWS series does this (for a ton more money), but so does the A&H GS-R24M (discontinued). The Trident has great build quality and sonics....it just needs some routing mods plus motorized faders to be a really killer.
it may make sense for drummer for the pre's alone. Harrison console if I hit the lottery.
I had no idea there was no fader flip on Trident. That is a buzz killer for me for sure.
Same thing I was thinking. At 17k, a fader flip would be nice. 20 plus years ago I had a Soundtracs Topaz Project 8 that had fader flips, and it was much less expensive. I know this is probably a "better sounding" and built console, but fader flip seems like a no-brainer for companies to put on "studio consoles".
I just got a topaz !
hi andrew i have got a tascam model 2524 and its a 24 channel
I've been eyeing this console for a while and this helps SO much. Thank you for this!
Can you direct out from the small faders on the 88? I’ve worked on the Tridents for years, they just don’t come as user friendly, cost effective and great sounding as the Trident. 96 inputs not including inserts and aux’s for $18k. Crazy.
You have a very cool setup. I’ve been down the analog path with a lower quality desk. Today I use a Presonus StudioLive 16 series 3. That goes out to mixes and aux, when I’m properly setup, (interim to UAD Apollo). The StudioLive gives me enough inputs for now, I can expand over AVB. It acts great for tracking then you can switch to automation and Daw control.
That's how I use my StudioLive 64S. I have 32 inputs on the back of the mixer plus another 32 on the NSB32.16 module. I also have 64in/64out over USB ASIO driver. I can hit DAW button and control the first 64 faders in StudioOne with the mixer (for doing automation work, whatever), without disrupting my mix. I also have enough inputs on those 64in/out to bring back full busses for sending to offboard gear (in stereo) and then returning the inputs. So I can bring my vox, guitar, bass, drum, synth, etc busses back out to the mixer, through offboard gear, and back in to StudioOne for separate concurrent outboard mixing of every separate mix bus the project uses. StudioLive mixers with that expansion capability are great for tracking and mixing.
@@lawrencesounddesign1862 totally. I had a 32, didn’t have room for it..
Hello, do you have a Spotify account with the songs that have been recorded at your studio. Thanks
Love the AMS rmx 16 , blows the plug-ins away. HDX and an S3 or S1’s work like a console. No latency monitoring all the aux sends with hardware inserts you want . I would never get a console again…. Unless it was a super sexy one .
Great vid, thanks. I'm wondering what you did with all of your WA preamps that you were so excited about?
I noticed that too. He probably liked the trident enough to not need so many external pres and selling them made more financial sense.
haha shots fired
Started on Teac Model 15, then TAC Scorpion 1 (24x16), then TAC Scorpion 2 (32x8), then (2) Amek Mozarts (40 inline with 17 Rupert Neve input modules)(the other is a 40 frame short loaded with 27 inputs). Still have the Scorpions and Mozarts
I very much agree with the benefits of recording through hardware. It is why I am in the process of building out a “BritStrip console”
Sounds like you need to upgrade your console that can manage automation/mix config. Maybe an Audient or a API Box?
Well thanks for your vid. I use a console for tracking and a summer for mixing. But I'm also a bit searching for my future setup.
I'd love to have an old neve BCM 10 for tracking. Small and cool but vintage crazy price tag of course
That's bad ass!
The AWS 924/948 has the ability to make fader moves on daw and console level. It doesn't have SF's however - the Origin has that.
Can you do a video where you divulge your mix bus settings on the WA compressor and eqs? I'd imagine a lot of people watching your channel are using those two pieces of gear and would be very interested in how you massage the mix bus. Thanks!
Hi Andrew, thanks for this great video. Regarding your preamps: I can see you have great preamps in your racks, why did you decide to use the Trident 68s for the drums? I thought you were using the racked preamps and maybe routing them to the line in input of the Trident ? Thanks ! Cheers. Thomas
I shot out what I was using and really liked the preamps on the board. Made a video on it.
with all those awesome gears you have on your studio.. i wonder how do you clean and maintain all those gears from dust, moisture etc. i mean do you have a special device or just manually clean piece by piece.
Hi Bro I love your STUDIO CONSOLE.
The Tascam -4800 is way cheaper. (500 dollar used ) invest in good pre-amps and you’ll get the same or even better sound.
You can even run pluggings through the desk with soft inserts.
Remote layers for any DAW.
I ❤ Tascam!
I would pick an 8 channel version of it right know, (If I could afford it) I actually just ordered four 80B 500 series preamps 🙃
PMI Audio has demo stock Series 68 (same as Andrew's) 16 channel for 9k.
I love the RMX16. Sounds amazing. Random question: what stand are you using for the Amaran soft boxes behind your console? I'm needing something along those lines. Thanks!
I love my Trident 88 - 24
Best for recording guitars and bass
hello just wonder: why do you need a outboard eq for your vocal traking?? It not the console good enough eq?? Ole from Norway here
Small and large faders and then...automation for recall.
Love the content Andrew, should have saved yourself a ton of $$$$$ and space and gotten the console 1 faders.. I think you got the console for nostalgia, aesthetics, and maybe a little ego?! Cant blame you... See you next week!
That console is awesome. I learned on an SSL4000 years ago in college but I’m running a SPL mixdream with a pulse16 as a digital patch bay. Gotta have some analogue goodness 😅
Did you switch from your Apollos to an Apogee Symphony? If so, why?
Apollo conversion sounds very inferior to RME, Apogee, Antelope, and lynx. Apogee also has digital mixer similar to Apollo console
I always feel like I learn so much when I watch these videos
I mixed live bands and singers for 10 + years as a young man. Now I am starting to record in a studio setup and its a real challenge, could I ask why you are using so much hardware when you can simply mix and eq in a software package. Other than recording a clear digital signal for work afterwards in your softeware I dont understand the need for all your hardware. Please let me know what Im not understanding this way. Thank you
The thought is that hardware gets recordings sounding finished and professional right off the bat with minimal time spent. Mixing in the box digitally enjoys having that weight baked into the recordings
To me analog and hardware sounds so much better than plug ins- remember plug ins are trying to emulate the real thing -there’s a reason plug ins are50 bucks and hardware is thousands
Thanks
This explains a lot.
I want to get a 68 one as well someday
Did you consider an Audient 4816HE before you purchased your Trident? ...and if so, why did you choose the Trident?
I think he said he wanted the Trident sound from having worked on them. Price point and 24 channels are also reasons I'm sure.
If you can find a reliable tech, I’ll be real, at big studios I’ve worked at we mod the console for what we need. Some techs can be quite crafty at getting us some features we wish the consoles had to begin with. Consoles have always been a custom thing back in the day for whatever routing and signal flow people have going on. We all have such unique needs ✌️ awesome setup dude!
That's a great setup! How do you tracks drums in the same room as the console?
Regarding complain #1, I wonder if you built a temporary/removable wood cover to lay over a portion of the mixer and place your monitor/keyboard/mouse/control surface on it for when you are mixing. I'm thinking you could put the cover below your meter bridge. If you put it on top of the meter bridge it could impact the sound from the monitor speakers (reflections etc). The only gotcha is there may not be enough space between the top of the channels and the meters to slip the wood support. The other issue might be the computer monitor causing reflections...so maybe you would set that on the meter bridge between the speakers. Anyway, just a thought...which you may already have considered anyway.
I think if I were to go back to that style of setup I might keep the split bay desk and move the console to a sidecar position.. Which would be weird and funny.
@@AndrewMasters when I had a console (back when a Mackie 32/8 was new) it sat on the side, and controllers were in front of me along with a pair of 19in CRT screens in the center console section...which was like having two old school TVs on the desk HAHA
I've got some warm amps and an ssl 6. Also, don't really use my warm amps as much anymore, and all my compressors are routed half normal in patchbays to the six. Just myself in a little room a 10th the size of your space. I would love to have more space . Got to use all your gear as often as possible 👍
If I am correct, if you look at the higher models of the Trident, like the 88, they solve those things you don't like about the 68. 🤔
Tridents are great consoles but their in line options are quite clunky and really not great. At Treasure Isle we have a 80 series that’s falling apart so we mostly use it for returns only. Although It’s a great sounding console, we typically use our abundance of outboard pres but some engineers come in and use the onboard pres (even though they’re quite noisy) on the way in and they avoid using the in line option. It’s a very large desk, so typically we have the real estate on the left side to use the large fader to send to protools or tape and all returns happen on the right side of the master section.
@@rebeliirecords9189 Must be an old console? Just a guess, a series 80-B? Older consoles are very difficult & expensive to have them reconditioned. 🤔😁
its actually the only 80 5.1 custom in the US as far as I'm aware. Certain channels are the original 80-B and others are "The Blue Channel" which was an attempt to make an improved version of the 80-B. both sound great, but still a bit noisy on the pres. @@jhowe5571
Cant you flip the faders? It is often an option on Inline consoles like that..
That's not inline
What chassis setup you using for the ams reverb?
Maybe an Audient Heritage series console has the ability for direct out that leaves the large faders for mixing?
As always, great stuff, Andrew!
- Sak_McL
Thanks for the info. How hard is it to change between Mic/Line mode?
Why do you put the comp before the eq pultecs on the mix bus?
Really appreciate your insights dude
I appreciate that!
Amazing! I love your studio! But how is it to MIX a song listening to the mix from your side?
Oh snap! Such a great video!
Glad you enjoyed it
Doesn’t the Toft version of this board have a switch that flips the baby faders (the pots) and the big faders for switching between input mixing to mix down?
Hey man! Sub since day one here! Thinking out loud: I guess that 90% of the time you’re tracking your monitors will be muted and you’ll be using headphones. On the other hand, while you’re mixing you’re constantly listening through your monitors. So why wouldn’t you switch the “in the box setup” and your console? At least that’s how I would work I think.
Andrew, you have an I/P reverse button which puts the Monitor into the channel path...would that work? So just track as normal, and then when it comes to mixing, you flip the path of the line and monitor. Would that do it? Can you not just track as normal, monitor through the monitoring path, and then when it comes to mixing...flip the inputs? But then...you seem not too fussed on mixing anyway. So why not just come back to the monitor inputs, flip I/P reverse button and just do some summing? You also free up some more line inputs for some more synths which you know you wanna buy haha!
Not exactly, what I’m talking about is a true in line functionality. Essentially giving you two channels in one.
So it looks like you’ve decided to stay with the Barefoot monitors. Are they that much better than the Focal Trios you had?
The focals are fantastic speakers, but those trio 6’s just didn’t work in my room unless they were wildly far from me. I like to have my speakers closer to me and these barefoots work perfectly.
@@AndrewMasters Got it. Thanks for the reply! I have the Trios and wonder if they’re too close as well. Thanks man!
I would probably go for an SSL XL Desk.