Choosing the API Sound
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- Опубліковано 19 вер 2022
- there's some redundant information from old videos in this, but this video is specifically for people considering buying the @APIAudioOfficial BOX. I go over my signal path and approach just to exhibit how I have managed to make the layout of this console function for me and deliver the API Sound. I had a lot of questions before buying, and in the early days of owning the console, It's natural to run across the limitations and wonder if you made the right choice. Almost a full year into owning it I have absolutely no regrets and instead my perspective is this is an incredible value getting the sound of a much more expensive console for really very little money All things considered.
I also discuss how what made first seem like a liability (Only eight Mic preamps) is actually kind of a plus. For me it's exactly the right amount until I want other flavors and not paying for channels that I'm not going to use is perfect.
I hope this is helpful to some people and their decision making. Please feel free to comment and question.
#recording #mixing #doylestown #producer #recordingstudio #proaudio @vintagekingproaudio @steinberg @PMCSpeakers_ 
I absolutely love my API Box2 Console. You helped me decide on it and I’m grateful. Only someone who doesn’t have the console would dare complain about the “sound.” If you like the API sound, this is it. And It’s spectacular.
Great run through of the Box, thanks!
That was a fantastic and thoughtful rundown. Sure we can do everything in the box these days, but I'm here watching your video it's because, like you, it's just fun to have a real board. Thank you.
Thanks for this! Great overview of the console and its capabilities.
Glad you liked it! 👍
None of the modern API consoles (1608, 2448, etc.) have input transformers on the line inputs like the vintage ones, so it's pretty unfair to judge the right-hand side of this desk any more harshly than those desks. If the routing capabilities and 8 preamps meet your needs, The Box 2 is a fantastic deal.
I always loved the idea of the box. I got the Api 1608 used before the 8 channel box came out. I think the box is the best bang for buck small format console out there. API rocks as a company as well.
agreed. still must be nice having the full mixer :). They are the nicest people
Great video. I have the older The Box (serial number 15), and I love it. When I bought it I looked at the price to buy four pres, two 550s, a monitor controller, a summing mixer, etc. and it is actually a great deal.
I have a few other preamps (API, UA, and ADL) that I use when I do drums. The sound from The Box is amazing. I spent about eight months contributing to a record on 2448 before I bought it. The sound is there.
I agree on the Aux returns.
nice! 👍 Yeah, I think it really is unique to API that these small boards deliver the same sound as the bigger ones.
their marketing strategy is working though, I'm looking at a 1608 now lol.
For a home setup that is really nice man good for you.
ty! we were forced to move last year when we lost our lease on the 3000 square-foot facility I had for 10 years. I'm making do for now, but we'll be back in a bigger space again 👍
Great. A video of the back and your wiring will be very interesting
i'm just finishing up all of the patchbay changes now. Introducing this mixer, created the opportunity for me to change the entire layout of the patchbay..... but that took some time lol. As soon as I'm 100%, I'll put up a new video and go through the signal chain.
Sounds great!
🙏 Ty!
Insightful. My first API experience was about a month ago with the 512V pre-amp with Neumann TLM 107 mic and I couldn't believe the sound on my raps compared to my RND 5211 pre-amp. Maybe it was the API or maybe the mic and pre-amp combo, but either way I sold the RND.
API has a great sound for rap. 👍
Today I got my two first API Channel Strips. They sound absolutely fantastic. I can understand having a Box console. It must sound totally awesome!
Very cool!
Nice setup. I run an Aurora audio sidecar direct outs normaled into the first 10 of the summing mixer. Output of the API is normaled to the Aurora stereo buss. That can be reversed as well.
Nice! That aurora looks sweet!
Love mine man, it's awesome when all patched in. Way more versatile patched than I first believed it could be. I've used a 1608 many times, this is the same thing without a doubt. Once all patched The Box is more than enough for "normal" tracking session. It's big, it's wide and it's deep sonically...love mine.
sweet! 👍
Love the track. Modern songs don’t usually do much for me but there’s lots of life in that one. It breathes!
ty! 🙏
Loved my box console .but I went full boat to the 2448 lol
ha! enjoy that thing! i bet its great!
nice thing
🙏👍
Would you say other than workflow and inspiration, there’s any reason to have this over a set of 8 preamps for tracking and a 16-channel summing mixer with inserts? I have a 1073OPX and a RND 5059 with a few pieces of outboard gear and keep coming back to your videos and others about The Box 2.
It's very difficult to say. I feel like more and more the longer I have it, The more I am appreciating it as a mixer. I finally stopped using the 0DB buttons on the right side and just started using the faders and decided who cares about documenting lol. and I really love it. I think the immediate freedom of being able to move high-quality faders right in front of me really makes a difference.
The only other thought I have is I got to use the RNP orbit for a while and I don't like the sound of the summing as much as I do the API. whether it's red or blue I find the transformers in the new Neve gear have too strong of a specific sound. The API is much more neutral in terms of color, the effect of the summing is more just "big". with clear depth of field. honestly I don't even use the APi preamps that much. aside from Drums I have other preamps that I like better, but as a 26 channel mixer with truly professional analog sound, it's well worth it.
I saw on some guy's video that even the $50,000 SSL origin puts their compressor after the insert on the mix bus, which the guy was not happy about and I wouldn't be either. API put the insert after the bus comp and I'm glad they did.
I'm thinking more and more about getting a Box II myself. And I think I've found, on paper, a way to sum 32 channel on that baby beast. For course you have the 16 summing channels. Then 8 recording channels set to "Line" (daw inputs). Then there's 8 more with this nice trick, if you could confirm...
The Box has 4 "2 Track" inputs that can feed the Cue. If you connect the 4 2-track inputs to interface line outputs, can't you also connect the Cue output to the Summing Input (and engage the "Sum Input to PGM" button). Wouldn't this feed 8 more channels (4 stereo) in the mix, totaling 32?
(You could still route your drum bus from the aurora Lynx to the 2-Track #1 (for example) so you wouldn't lose it).
(You could use 2-Track #2 connected to your X-Desk, and 2-Track #3 connected to your RND Orbit adding 32 more channels maybe???)
I have to check if you can actually run all the two track inputs at the same time. I know you can't run them simultaneously with the program out. It wasn't designed to do what you're saying for sure but... maybe
@@hopetownsound Looking at the schematics of the Box (squares A-12 A-13) it seems to clearly show the 4 inputs are summed into the cue. And the manual (section 8.2.1) clearly states these "sources are additive". So this looks very promising. Still I'd love to have your feedback as to how it really works. (but if the manual says so, and the schematics show so.... ;-) )
All I have from the analog is only WA 76 :)
Over time, I want to save more money and buy a similar mixer
you'll get there 👍
This was quite helpful. Thanks for taking the time to address several things.
I've been on the fence about making The Box2 work or just biting the bullet on a 1608II. I have a ton of outboard pres, including two 3124Vs, so not worried about inputs.
I was a little surprised to hear there were no transformers in the summing section, but your point re: inserts and 2buss is solid.
Speaking of - and this is what it will likely come down to:
I have a BURL Vancouver (32ch summing buss) and a Chandler TG Mini MIxer (16ch). How would they integrate with the stereo buss? Thanks and cheers!
(edit/PS - I also have an 828. Highly underrated! It doesn't get as much action these days since the 8 API channels arrived, though. Are you still firing it up? )
I may have just answered my own question:
I'd probably just send the TG mixer to 1/2, and the Vancouver to 3/4, leaving 12chs still available. Plus there's the other 8 on the input side. Seems like more than enough! Is that routing straightforward?
(Cpro 11 user, as well - cheers, man!)
The box actually specifically has a "Sum input" in the master channel. so you don't have to give up channels. its only 1 stereo input though. you could feed the burl into the chandler or the other way. that's a lot of summing inputs though lol. i guesz choose them for flavors like you do mic pres.
@@hopetownsound Haha yes, all combined it would be 72 or so. That's large format territory. Lots of options!
I've been watching a few other vids of yours, also quite informative, and what keeps coming up is that stereo buss gain/output bottle neck. Is there an option to upgrade the 527s to a 529, I wonder?
If not, I have a 2500 I'd likely rely on for that sound, anyway, and assign the 527s to the left side channels like you mentioned, as well.
Thanks for the inspiration!
@@siriusfun I'm not aware of any options on the compressor, but... like we said... move them to channels, use something else.
@@hopetownsound Cheers!
Hi, awesome work... you have been my Box instruction manual ;) - I love this board, but have struggled a little bit having come from a hybrid console (toggle between DAW Mix and Tracking w/ 2 x layers of faders). Crazy question, would a D-SUB Y-Cable on the summing inputs be detrimental in any way? If it did not impact quality (shouldn't on a modern console) it would allow me to either sum my DAW through The Box for mixing OR sum all of my synths/drum macheens (Line Level) through the faders and leave all of the above plugged in. I could simply flip on the 0 switch when coming from the DAW to ignore the faders. I feel like this console begs you to hack a bit to maximize for your needs. I could also burn a bunch of interface IO and go straight to the DAW, but miss some color on the way in. I also considered another DIY summer for FX returns (per your comments about burning a pair of summing channels and limited Aux returns).
For more context, I have a wall of synths and drum machines, use the inputs/500 series side for tracking and Mics on The Box, and use a Radial Space Heater (8x Channel tube summer) for drum/bass bussing/heating things. I have been trying to figure out where to best integrate my Silver Bullet 2 into this (it gives me 2 x more nice mic pres, color, and switching between Track and Mix on both input and output). I pre-ordered it before I got the API and there is some overlap, but I may put it on both the Program for mastering as well as straight through my interface (Red 8pre) for tracking --> DAW. Too many options, curious to get your thoughts as you've been down this road ;)
ok :)... so, the 0 button doesn't route from different inputs, it just bypasses the faders.
For both of your questions, I think the answer is patchbays. creative use of normalling vs patching i think is the best solution. The Box does purposefully omit some features that would be really handy lol. APIs not so subtle way of encouraging you to step up to the next level. I get around that by adding the SSL X Desk as a sidecar and feeding it through the Summing Input.
@@hopetownsound - Yeah, I worded that poorly and know that's not what the 0 function does. I am testing putting a pair of Radial SW8's (D/SUB not USB version) linked on the summing side of the board so I can A/B toggle/switch between tracking 2x channel stuff and summed drums through the board and mixing from the DAW. I understand why API did what they did, but I wish they would have been more thoughtful in their attempts to not erode 1608 sales ;) - Fingers crossed, I prefer the API to my former SSL Matrix minus these limitations (yeah, patchbay, get it). This setup with a footswitch on the SW8 would get me back to a setup similar to the Matrix minus automated faders. I much prefer the tone of the API, hence why I sold the Matrix. These SW8's are < $500 used on Reverb and can be linked together. Flock came to mind here, but this solution is far cheaper and lets me push a button/footswitch to toggle versus turning back to the computer or yanking patch cables. Thanks again for all the inspo w/ this board.
@@jonathanknorr1971 it's always interesting seeing what people come up with. if you get this all set up, please make a video I'd love to see it.
On Sweetwater it says that the channel strip/ preamp is from the 548B, but you mentioned the preamp is based off the 312, is there a difference? Also, can you talk about how the insert works? Can I do a patch bay of outboard gear on the inserts ? And how do you turn it into a 24 track summing ? When you send the line inputs on the left side, do you physically have to cable up the back in order to get the 24 tracks for mixing? And when you do that, can you still use the 500 slots and inserts ?
All I've ever seen about the mic preamp said that they are 312s. IDK. I had 4x 512c before the board. I sold them when I got the board because eight APIs is enough for me and they all sound like API. The more important point is you have an output fader on every channel so you can push the input of the pre if you want to.
Most of what you're asking can be answered by just going on their website and looking at the back panel. you can also download the manual from their website and that's very helpful . There are Mic inputs and line inputs on the left side of the board. I have the mic inputs connected to patch bays and the line inputs connected directly to the output of my interface. The same thing for the summing inputs on the right. Directly out of the interface. So outputs 1- 24 on my interface go to the 24 channels on the board. And the microphone inputs are normalled on my patchbay from the snake. The eight channels on the left side have "mic" switches. Switch them on for recording, leave them off for mixing.
The 500 series slots and the inserts work on both the Mic and the line inputs
So can you insert a Neve 1073 mic pre from a lunchbox into one of the line inputs on any of the first 8 recording channels, with the console mic pre switched out? What is the best way to record using external mic pre,s? That leads to another question, is it possible to stick some 512,s into the empty slots just to make it look better aesthetically, obviously never switching them in or would it detect the fact they are preamps even though they are switched out? I think the 500 slots have their own switch.
well, I wouldn't waste high-end Mic preamps just for a show - if anything, it will look like you don't know how to use the console. they don't recommend putting preamps in those slots.
You're better off having them in an external 500 series enclosure with a patch bay. and then, I suppose you could send it through the line inputs, although I dedicate my line inputs to the outputs of my converter. In general, when I use external preamps, I just use a patchbay and go straight to my converter and don't go through the mixer at all. If I want an API preamp, the mixer has eight of them built in.
I find it's more useful having equalizers in the mixers slots.
@@hopetownsound Thanks for the advice, yea that,s a better way to just have my 1073 on a patch bay comming into a line input via the bay and kept in the lunchbox. I already have some spare 512,s and thought they could just sit in the 500 slot,s not for any use other than aesthetics for now until I can afford to fill up with more 550A,s. As long as I dont engage the switch on them I wondered if they would cause a problem.Your videos are highly instructive, big thanks for that.
if they're spare, I would sell them and buy something you can use. just y'know...lol.
I have BAE 1073 preamps and equalizers for a while I had them in a Fredenstein 500 series chassis where i could daisy chain the pres to the EQs internally and make channel strips. worked well
Does the Box do conversion or do you need an interface with sufficient I/O?
it is purely analog. you need an interface, a lot of cables and a patchbay
Do you think the API sound would work well with Country Rock, Acoustic Americana type of music like the Eagles, or is it too punchy and aggressive sounding? Thanks
no, I think it's perfect for that. That's why they bought one at Blackbird. I think it's all about how you drive it. It's actually a shame. I think I stayed away from API too long because of that reputation. If your approach is to look for headroom and depth... its there and its beautiful.
Swap the opamps with Red Dots for all that acoustic music.
I am the owner of a Sony/MCI 3065 MXP
Now it’s time to say goodbye this desk after 35 years
Is the box a good alternative?
well, I've never actually used an MCI desk. It's a little apples and oranges because the box doesn't come with channel EQ.
The box has great headroom, transformers on the inserts and 2520 op amps. Assuming you're putting equalizers in the 500 series slots they will color the sound more than the mixer. the summing side on the right has inserts on every channel so.... it's really about what you're choosing to use as your processing. I have 16 channels of premium EQ and nice stuff on the mix buss insert so I'm thrilled with the quality that I'm getting.
if you price out how much the box cost with 16 channels of premium EQ... you start to see how some people may opt for the 1608. The part I can't get my head around tho is... with the box you get 24 channels, each with aux sends, inserts, pans, mutes and faders. The 1608 has dual inputs but you don't actually get faders and inserts, auxes on both levels. Unless there's something I'm missing it looks like a 16 channel mixer to me, granted with sub groups, and aux returns.
I find myself using every one of the 24 channels on the box in most of my mixes. In fact, I'm also using 8 more channels from the SSL X desk. I got 32 channels for $17.5k. add $16k for EQs. To get that on a 1608 you're looking at $80k.
I don't think you can't go wrong with the API sound, but the economics of how to do it... the box definitely makes more sense if you already have your processing (I already had 14 channels of EQ)
As much as I love a console (especially an API), I have to wonder if a guy couldn't get more bang for his $17k by running great pres and converters into the box and running API emulations. I always prefer working on a desk but money and options are a big thing too. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on what you might have selected had you gone the other route. Great video!
I did go that route, right up until i bought the console.
the price of this console was $15k brand new. The 8 pres are valued at around $1,000 each, same for each of the 2 compressors. thats $10k right there. then you get 16 channel summing, monitor control, 24 faders, Aux bussing system, integrated 8 channel 500 series rack...
the value is pretty clear before you include the overall API sound.
i have the UAD, Lindell and Waves API plugins. they're ok. i like the Lindell best out of them, but they are all like a static snapshot of the sound. none of them have the depth and punch of their analog counterparts.
the size of the sound of the console is something you have to experience.
Audient ASP4816 is crazy good for under 17k
@@fetusbelt6851 I'm sure it is. I have one of their small interfaces. It's also a very different thing. you're paying for Audient mic preamp's and equalizers. if that's what you want it's a great deal. I have heard some fantastic work that's been done on that console. definitely worth considering.
The BOX is $15k and it sounds like an API, but it will cost you more to add extra mic preamp's and obviously equalizers. in 1996 I had one of the first soundcraft ghost consoles. it was great for what it was and an excellent bargain. There's all kinds of great choices out there.
@fetusbelt6851 The Audient is a fantastic mixer. But it does not have the API character. So it all depends on what you want.
Your statements about the summing nit having transformers make sense. My question is without the transformers, what does summing through it impart in your signal?
I wish I could afford one. Over 23K (Euro) here in Europe, unfortunately. That's about 25K USD 😔
yikes!! it would be worth paying for the shipping to get one used
@@hopetownsound Never seen one used in Europe (except for a Box 1 with only 4 channels). Importing from outside the EU, now also from the UK since Brexit, results in additional VAT and import fees. It sucks loving all that wonderful American gear and living in Europe. 😑
ughhh sorry
What do Ido if I have 15 mics on drums?
you just spill over to external mic preamps. so on your interface make the console direct outs 1-8, then go to externals.
it's really just figuring out how you like to work. You do end up dedicating any equalizers that are in the console to those channels. Some people don't wanna do that, so they leave them blank, I like having them in the board - particularly for mixing. I will usually use the API preamps for kick (inside), snare top, rack tom, Floor tom, hat, ride, oh l, oh r. then ill do kick outside, snare bottom, and room mics on other pres.