Why I Bought a SSL Origin 32 Console in 2023! (Recalling a "Dumb" Console | Workflow | Financing)
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- Опубліковано 26 чер 2023
- Music producer Joel Wanasek discusses the ins and outs of adding an analogue "dumb" console (no automation / recall) into a modern mixing workflow. Joel discusses why a tool like this is important, how to integrate it into a modern mixing workflow, the costs of doing so, and more.
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I’m Joel Wanasek, a pro mixer who’s worked with artists like Scott Stapp, Machine Head, Attila, Monuments, and Vinyl Theater. I’m also the co-founder of Nail The Mix, the world’s best online school for rock & metal producers.
LEARN TO MIX: nailthemix.com/
A walk through video would be awesome. I have an analog console and have been trying to figure out how I want to approach it. It would be a big help!!
I own an SSL 4048 E/G/G+ and it’s not nearly as expensive to run and maintain it as you’d think, especially if you get a newer power supply and a Tangerine. In my opinion, it sounds quite a bit better than the Origin, but I’m glad to see more people coming around to how superb consoles sound. It puts those goofy emulations to shame.
So awesome! I wish I had one. Hard to find a tech etc where I live.
Thrue, i own a SSL 4040G fom 1991 with a new silent switching PSU mounted under the console and all VU lamp are replace by LED the power consumption are 100 % lower than the heavy original PSU and i turn of the console after work.
Every analog emulation is goofy to me but you know how it is...
Amen Brother!!! I have Origin Serial Number 139.... Been living with it since 2020 and YES... You really can't tell what you have been missing till your sitting in front of one of these Consoles...We can talk about it but the DIMENSIONALITY just cant be explained till you hear it! Happy to Hear you are LOVING it! I am too... One thing I have learned... Is that If you have a UC-1 the plug in versions of the Console EQ and compression are VERY close to the Origin Sound... Yes The Console is better, But if you have the UC-1 and the plug in on your DAW track...The settings are EXACTLY the same as the Console EQ's would be... This makes a VERY quick way to recall the Console EQ's to your original Mix settings at a later time... You just disable the plug in from the audio in the DAW but the EQ settings you made remain there and can be quickly transferred back to the CONSILE... But ya know... A lot of the time just recalling the plug in in the DAW sounds pretty darn close... Cheers!
Awesome!
On an Amek console since I've started engineering 13 years ago here in London.
I don't think I can be without one. Tracking through it every day and loving it.
Nice, which amek?
I have to say. This is a well thought out video. I totalled feel what you mean
Mixlab walk through or it didn't happen.
This
Joel, your enthusiasm is infectious! Please keep the vids coming.
Congrats! I bought my 4K 5 years ago and never looked back. I love this desk
AMAZING! I've always wanted one. Finding one used in good working order and having someone who can keep it running is hard.
Hell yes brother. Great vid. I love feeling your excitement for this. I couldn't agree more with your points and great ideas for work around options too! Where theres a will there a way right!
I’m 54 so grew in all analog and line through the transformation from analog mediums to digital and hybrid workflows…I know exactly what you are speaking to in reference to analog consoles adding a certain “musical” depth, separation & width; those attributes are even further exaggerated when you print to analog tape
i got an old Midas old 32 but i work it in my Daw wow i love it.
Very cool to see and great to hear about how your doing mix recall !
Of the many rigs I've had over the years, one of the most sonically memorable for me was mixing through an old 16 channel A&H Mix Wizard. Nowhere near top shelf gear but there was just a vibe and simplicity to it that worked no matter what I mixed on it. I don't currently have room for a desk but wish I did.
Very cool!
Thank you! You just concisely described exactly what I have heard and felt I have been missing.
Glad it was helpful!
That would be the mixing special, NTM course, that I would be interested in paying for. See how you go through a mix from start to finish, with the mixing console and how your recall process works out in practice... Is that something you would consider? Great idea, very inspiring. 🙏
Yes absolutely. I’m gonna do some mixing on this channel with it eventually.
Agreed! I'd love to see the difference in the workflows and the process, live mixing.
Thanks for that Video! Thats what i needed to hear!
We just got one of these installed at my school and love it!
Fascinating discussion Joel. Thank you!
Perfect board for a hybrid studio
Hell yeah Joel! 🤘I was thinking about using the boards processing as a hardware insert instead of just letting it be the last stop of the chain from pro tools out the board and I’m glad to hear you mention that 🙏
Great video! Very inspiring! I had learned audio engineering on a "real mixing console" back in the days. But never had the chance to get one on my own.
I worked for years in making commercials and just as you said: "in the box" (I guess you talk about a computer, if I got you right?)
Few weeks ago I bought a SSL UC1, and that changed my workflow massively. I don`t use many plugins anymore. I do all eq and compression now on the "hardware" so to say ;-)
I can just imagine how you must feel when you come in the room and start to mix. Must be awesome.
I wish you all the best for your mixing!! Thx for sharing your insights!
Congrats, welcome to the club.
I’m not a professional mix/recording engineer by any stretch, but my rig consists of Neve 8424 and 16 channels of 1073 OPX. After 20 years of fiddle fkn around in the box, I have died and gone to heaven. Everyone that listens to the rough mixes from their live recording, are left speechless. A best buddy keyboard/sax player commented that it’s such an “analog” sound. No automation, the board has total recall.
Mixer, OPXs, ATC 25 monitors and cables set me back 45k. I considered the ORIGIN, but decided on the NEVE. Congrats on leap into a analog board, I enjoyed your video, cheers
Awesome! I almost bought a 8424. It’s an amazing board and sounds great!
Right on the money!!! I have a Mackie32x4 board with a NI Audio 2 interface but it was lifeless. A simple thing I did was switch to an SSL 2+, a very simple thing and when I powered it up for the first time my daughter sitting off angle on the floor immediately heard on the dialog the amazing clarity it provided. Over time I was able to delve deeper in my mix and really zero in on problems. Now this is just an interface I can only imagine what this console can do. Am saving my money for this console and deleting the car!!!!
Nice insights Joel... as usual... btw, guessing those resonances in the low mids I hear on your voice are reflections from the console hahaha... I wish I had one of these marvelous consoles to play with. Keep up the good work man!
I remember when Joel was the fastest sweep picker alive! Where all the videos went?
Well said, thanks
Seriously we need a mixlab walk through!!!!
Maybe I'll do something on this channel.
@@joelwanasekurm comparing one of your ITB mixes with your new console would be amazing (same song) . Please consider.
Dude congrats on the console. Life goals! I'd love to hear what this thing can do!
My first mix from this drops friday. Versus Me "Blackout"
@@joelwanasekurm Hell yeah!
That was inspiring. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and your workflow.
Right now i have a BOX2 and an SSL X Desk, and 16 premium channel EQs. I could do the same system you're doing with the direct outs on the X Desk and 1-8 on the BOX and use the summing side of the BOX the way you're using the small faders. The only problem is it's only 16 channels.
IDK, I really love the freedom of being able to choose my own equalizers. I have a mix of all three APIs, a bunch of BAE 73's and a pair of Helios. and I do love API 20:21 sound.
i'm not sure if I need more than what I have right now at all, but it would be a tough decision for me between an Origin or a 24 or 32 channel API. I haven't done that much work on 4000 consoles. It's interesting that you were satisfied going to that from the API.
Thanks again for sharing
thanks for the video! i have been mixing hybrid (with a summing box) for years), would be awesome if you can make a walk through video of your workflow with the console. keep going brotha!
An eye opening video. Tank you.
happy to hear!
I went to a Soundcraft 24channel British made, then to an A&H 32 channel, and can't wait to get at SSL Origin. Out of my price range, but on the horizon. You are spot on, the analog gear instantly sounds better.
I ABSOLUTELY LOVE your video on this subject !!! You went back to old school like Al Schmitt and Bruce Swedien , etc . Doing it the way most of the greatest songs EVER recorded were done . So what ride the faders a little and if you have to you print it . That Origin is a dream board , and yes I don't want to even think about all those ridiculous unnecessary plugins i hear people waste time with
Glad you enjoyed it!
Ypu said it yourself... you are happy... nothing more important 👍
Hahaha thats exactly how it happened to me!! Every single thing analog added im like... Yep thats it...much better Its great. Never got to a console point but im still happy with my dangerous 2bus for summing lol! Congrats on the sick ass console!!!
Automation is really just a bandaid fix they came up with to help the lack of channels. Now that we have basically infinite tracks in the DAW, we can just put sections on different tracks, set gain and run them to the same output in to the same channel on the console ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
True!
I've been doing that for years, but simply out of pure laziness 🤣
@@donniecatalano I feel you! Editing automation is such a hassle
lol "Automation is really just a bandaid fix they came up with to help the lack of channels" - that's the silliest thing I've heard today
I would love to own the Origin 32 but know I'd have to spend a lot more money on AD/DA into the "box". and then patchbays with the cables, ain't cheap. Oh and then external compressors. Unless you use comps in the box only, I feel like if you are in it to make money it's certainly an impressive thing to see as a client. But damn. I cant see the sound being worth it. I think using the SSL9000 plugin and a few UF8s and a UC1 is the way to go
Joel Wanasek
How do you feel about mixing without the dynamics of a 4000E series? These console manufacturers always cheap out, why not go all the way? Am I missing something is there channel dynamics not listed in their description?
Duuuuuuuuuuuuude! Literally SAME. I was watching a behind the scenes on Thriller, and the first clap is when I finally heard that analog depth and juice. That's so wild hahahahaha
Right?!
Very cool video I enjoyed this
Thanks for watching !
Very cool. I bought an X-Desk a a couple years ago before they were discontinued. It’s the baby brother of the XL-Desk. No eq’s or preamps but you can add your own. I don’t think it’s based off the 4000 I think it based on the 9000 but nonetheless I think it sounds amazing. I know what you mean it ups the game from an in the box mix.
Went on to a mixer myself last week (Toft Audio). That sound ❤
Hi Joel. Can you do two mixes, without matching the parameters, and do a blind test?
To see whether u can figure out which is which, and which is better?
You have to do each mix in a different day, and then listen to the comparisons in a different studio.
I believe this is the most objective test you can make.
Iv actually done this my self, and got interesting results. I had my assistant test me. I hope to see your results as well.
Congrats on the purchase Nontheless.
It's funny how things come full circle in time.
I been considering this workflow for a long time. One of the things I don’t know how to solve is aux sends/returns and buses. How do you handle that? External reverb for example. Or parallel compression. Does the origin have direct outs for those?
Fascinating read on this console. Joel. I messed around with one @ Namm in '22, they sound great.
I suppose the only routing approach I'm not sure I grasp is TLA's explanation: (loosely quoted) "I just set the faders to unity gain/turn off the EQ's if I'm doing a recall' ... if that's the case then I'd surmise he's using his Origin as a massive summing unit + a few pieces of OB for inserts/sends + returns. Using the LF's as channel inserts and then SM's for the summing, post-line out from DAW, seems to make the most sense and similar to your approach. Are you shutting off the Stereo Bus Comp when printing any of those stems ?
He mixes the song w eq and inserts etc. prints stems. Keeps the same routing and hits it at 0db back in w everything bypassed so it then behaves as a summing mixer. Any level automation is done in the daw on the stems.
You can add automation to this console by using the SSL Sigma or the Wes Audio NG Leveler.
Can you explain this in more detail?? 👀
@@ramorales90 Google them and you can get the information you need there.
I was thinking of getting a ng leveler. Looks awesome. Used to have a sigma.
LOL - missed this video although I already followed the whole process on IG. Time to watch it now I guess :D
I've been producing since approx 1990. Never been without a mixing console. Makes creating music so much simpler and more pleasurable and sonics matter.
Very cool! A console is a must.
Hi, I agree 100% i miss my analogue gear so much!. One question: when you say "print the stems" do you mean "bounce"?
It means I print each channel through the direct out.
Cool. Glad to hear how much you are enjoying it.
I also bought a dumb console this year, but in my case I went with a vintage Sony/MCI MXP-3036 that I picked up for cheap and am currently refurbishing. This is a quiet console and power supply for it's age. I've been wondering if I'm really going to move this beast into my studio, but your thoughts are another pro for going for it.
When it's all said and done, this console will have cost around $6-7K CAD and it's supposedly one of the most amazing sounding boards ever made (similar to an SSL sound, which makes me happy). I'll be using it for tracking and mixing.
I'm documenting the process on my UA-cam channel.
Congratulations and enjoy!
I don't have a console, but I did buy a Great River MP-2NV years ago to track a sampler's outputs into my DAW and it seemed like I instantly stopped fighting with mixes. It's like saturation does something to dynamics (I guess) which you only notice when you try to put one sound on top of another. If I don't send something out into the Great River, it seems like I'll get frequency masking and I'm stuck trying to make tiny cuts and boosts or throwing multiband compressors on everything. It's like I can't get the sounds to separate properly. They're smeared or something. That's the only way I can describe it. Trying to fix it is a lot of work and it never actually fixes the problem entirely. Maybe somebody who is really skilled can get a similar result with plugin saturation, I have no idea, but I've never been able to recreate with plugins what the Great River does. I've seen beat makers debate this and some people claim that throwing a good preamp in the chain is a waste of time and money, which to me is absurd. The only thing I can think is that those are people who are newer to this and haven't developed their ear and don't know what they're talking about.
Digital saturation is not the same as analog. Take it from someone who owns a plugin company. You are correct!
Dude you are so right about the sound or whatever it is that a console does. It just sounds better. like harmonically balanced
Absolutely. There is a certain thing a console does that makes you go "wow."
Joel, youre killing my G.A.S. ma dude! 🤣Ive been eye humping this console since it came out, must be a total blast!
Sorry! Get one! lol
@@joelwanasekurm only 55 grand lol
Hi Thank you for this video! May I ask what audio interface you are using with this console! Thanks you!
Congrats on your new investment! Very Cool!
Thanks!
Joel, back when you were considering buying the API box, I remember you said the API sounded way better than the other consoles you tired. What made you decide the SSL was the better choice? Was an SSL console just out of your price range at the time until you really started considering the Origin?
I wrote off the origin (thanks gearspace). I wanted more channels and eq in front. I love how the origin sounds. It’s a bit wider tighter and punchier than api. That api does sound insane though!
Hey Joel, I'm curious, do you print a pre automation version of your mix that you keep on an alternate playlist in case the client doesn't like the automation you did?
I've never had to actually do that. I only send clients completed mixes and I always mix remote. Most of my automating is done ITB going into the console. I am considering getting a NG Leveler for post comp automation on a few channels (mostly fx returns). But one work flow is you could always mix your song, get your returns figured out, print those. Then automate itb and send to a pair of large faders on the mix.
If you print all you’re channels and then use the console to recall and print a mix.
I wonder if you’re on a budget and run all you’re channels through an outboard ssl channel strip. And then mix all of them channels down in a cheaper ( like soundcraft ) mixer. Would that make a huge difference?
Im hoping to get a Neve Genesys Black 24 input console. Ive always loved the sound of a Neve.
I love both Neve & SSL. I come from the school of recording on a Neve and mixing on SSL :) Old school
I dream of having a console. I have some analog and plugins and I often reach for the gear.
Is crosstalk what you mean at 5:00? Genuinely curious since I never saw anyone using the option on Softube tape but I sometimes like it.
Yeah I feel you. Do you print all channels or only the bus outputs as backup?
All of the above
Cheers man. Can you do a video where you put all this into practice?
Being decent at mixing in the box and feeing like ive got real drums down, I was surprised when i got an old 1/4” reel to reel to play with, just running drums w gates through it sounded 80% done.
I want a tape machine. Sounds like a lot of fun to play with!
Subbed.
blesseds !!!!
Right so this video in a nutshell. Buy analogue gear, get an audio interface then go hybrid. Buy lots of plugins, then go in the box, then get rid of in the box and buy a big mixing desk. Rinse and repeat ad infinitum. So people like this video basically advise people to buy buy buy buy buy. So you own a plugin company and get people to buy your plugins on the basis that plugins are as good as hardware then once you bought it all, go back to analogue until better plugins come out then go back to in the box etc. This is why I really hate audio UA-cam.
I’ve been trying to figure out this issue of recalls for years. I’m going to try this workflow. I expect some issue to arise (like with shared effects, or with delay compensation of something… there’s always something)
You can always print your fx at the beginning of a mix on direct outs and then balance them itb and bring them back on a pair on the desk.
Update: I spent the good majority of the day with this, and the unforeseen issue was console/converter alignment. My board is from the mid 80s, and I run both motu and apogee converters. The motu is adjustable, the apogee isn’t. The motu is now nicely set at 1:1 recall-ability, and the apogee just needs a 2.15 db bump in post.
Other than that, I’m super excited to work this way long term! I never really thought recalls like this would be possible, thanks for the great video inspiration!
Ps the delay compensation for the apogee was different than w the motu as well, which only really made phase cancellation in the checking of this method difficult. Shouldn’t be a problem day to day, I think.
I cannot thank you enough for this. No other single video has made such a difference to my whole life than this. Digital automation post-fader, perfect recalls. I can make a clients tweak from home. I can do more than one mix at once. Make more money. I can go home earlier, spend more time with my family.
It’s not an understatement when I say that this was a game changer.
Thank you. ❤
@@joelwanasekurm I cannot thank you enough for this. No other single video has made such a difference to my whole life than this. Digital automation post-fader, perfect recalls. I can make a clients tweak from home. I can do more than one mix at once. Make more money. I can go home earlier, spend more time with my family.
It’s not an understatement when I say that this was a game changer.
Thank you. ❤
dream desk. Im recently trying to move out of the box. thinking midas venice for start as Im low on budget atm.
Great start!
Hi Joel, could one with with the Neve BCM Mkii? (Some people say they are for tracking only)
Never tried one
Harrison teamed up with ssl ,going to see the Harrison 32c at aes nyc
I've been studying at URM for a few months now, I love analog for sure. What would you recommend at a very, VERY budget level to experiment with an analog console? Just for fun. Thank you!
Maybe a Mackie? Or SSL has a six channel
@@GTORT thank you! After I posted my question, I started to think something like that maybe. I'm not there yet to do this for a living, but the idea of working with an analog console intrigues me for sure.
SSL Big 6 gives a lot of amazing features for the price!
Welcome to high end audio!
Thanks Ryan Reynolds...
really liked your video and appreciate you sharing this but man.. that sibilance was hurting my ears 😂
Where can we listen to your mixes?
open.spotify.com/playlist/70nIfkK6IMeVuRNkGNNvr4?si=af18d0c59c094806 the only 2 on there so far that I've done on this board are Versus me Blackout / Lilly Hammer Throne. Everything else hasn't be released yet.
Did you sell your API already? I’m interested in buying it.
I sold it to the kid upstairs in my building. But I 11/10 recommend that api it’s amazing!
For me lack of automated faders and compressors in ssl origin is no go zone.
We are gen X and baby blumers!!!! Analog living in a digital world!!! Some things just can’t be replaced!!!
Would you add a ng leveler?
I’m considering adding one
nice@@joelwanasekurm
I mixed for over 2 decades in my studio with zero automation on my 32 channel.console. No big deal because it's how I learned.
That’s great and I so wish I would have come up that way and not itb.
big like from ISRAEL !!
that Yamaha pm3000 42 chn I have sitting around may mean something to somebody after all . #analogrules
As a recording engineer with over 40 years experience, I find the term “dumb console“ offensive. from a purist sound perspective, I will take a vintage trident B-range console over a Neve 88R or SSL 4000 any day. in the old days, complicated fader moves during mix was a coordinated dance between three or four sets of hands on the console . Sometimes, there were happy accidents that actually enhanced the production. That can’t happen with flying faders .
Because you have a lot of stock in your local electricity utility?
the secret is out now, don't tell. Power consumption on this is really low actually. You put it to sleep when you aren't using it.
SSL 4000 has no bottom end. 5534 IC's
Origin has massive low end. I was surprised.
Absolutely a no brainier unfortunately most audio engineers don't grasp how powerful analog mixers and what they are missing
Rather stick with the Avid S6.
A 24 channel analog console was the FIRST THING I BOUGHT 30 years ago. Congrats I guess 😂
I wish I would have bought one much earlier.
Automate it in protocols
and what about SSL big 6?
I think it’s a fantastic starting point for someone on a budget. You could even cascade 2 together and have something formidable.
@@joelwanasekurm Have you tried it? Do you think it does the console sound ?
Man, I just wish people had abandoned all the analog stuff long enough for those of us who know could afford that stuff. I have been trying to collect tape machines and cassette machines from the 70s, 80s, and 90s because they were built like tanks and are still repairable. The digital stuff is basically trash if something gets fried. Also, the analog sound just still can’t be matched.
Did you try any of the console emulations on the tracks? I use Slate Digital on every channel for that transformer saturation style glue.
I've tried all of them. The Slate one is personally not something I like. It adds a mushy low mid congestion to everything and softens it up. Sounds nothing like a real board.
A lotta talk about the board. But we never got to see it 😢
cant get along with new ssl stuff, we installed a duality back in 2010 and it just didnt hit like the old neve did.
The duality is super analogue. The origin sounds more like a 4000. Different design. But you’ll never get a neve vibe from a ssl. So mix on a neve. That being said new neve is super clean.
I know you have an L1 in the end and return of every channel that goes to your console
Don’t need it anymore haha 😂 leaving Dynamics in these days