Analysis: Why Fighting Games Are Hard
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- Опубліковано 12 лют 2016
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Fighting games are known to be notoriously hard, but what do people mean by "hard", and is there anything we can do about it?
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The hardest thing in fighting games is being too good to play with your friends but not enough to be a competitive player
Kinda get this, feel the same, but also feel like we both have a huge exciting journey ahead of us. I can’t wait for it to become safe again so I can go back out there and get gud.
Feel you bro
I'm in a position where I play fighting games with my brothers. And we are basically on equal ground. We all know how to do the inputs and execute cancels and combos. It all boils down to predicting what we will throw at eachother. So I can basically have the most enjoyment from any fighting game because I have two people that I can play with that are on the same level as me.
i feel you bro
Lmao facts!!!!
*the hardest thing to do in fighting games is teaching your friends and beating them constantly and trying to not make them rage quit and leave the fighting game forever.*
INDEED, if you beat them over and over they'll quit and you dont have opponent
Danks EXACTLY 🤦🏽♂️‼️
Friend: doesn't like losing ten games in a row.
Also friend: can tell when you're going easy on him and doesn't like it.
Me: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I mean, its true that you learn by losing, but I don’t think you’ll be learning anymore once you lose for like the 5th time in a row.
@@mineclon2129 It took my friend 6 games to start blocking my overheads in MK10
The biggest barrier for myself was that the in-game tutorials never show you how to actually play a match. They show you piece by piece what your character can do, but then you get into a match with the freedom to do any of the 20 things you just learned any time you want, and you get your ass kicked while realizing you have NO idea how to play the game. Tutorials need to show and explain the gameplay flow of turns/knockdown game/etc
Yeah combo trials are pretty useless
This is why you spend time scouring the internet and watch world class players play to learn what they are doing that you arent.
The hardest thing is seriously finding people at your level. Either they're too low or they're way too high. And while losing is a part of the experience, it can still be pretty damn discouraging to get absolutely bodied by someone who is at a much, much, much higher level than you.
way too high is good, thats where you pick up on new stuff, i dont like winning more than 2 times in a row because it feels like stagnation.
Get good kid.
@@__-fi6xg even pro players get destroyed in fighting games
True. As a new BlazBlue player, I've accepted that the best way to improve is to get bodied, and learn from getting bodied, and do that for a long time. The question is how many weeks, months I would need to do this before I could reach the "fun" part. I'm starting to ask myself if it is even worth it, and I'm sure a lot of new player think the same. I've heard people say the best approach is to play fighting game because you want to learn and not because you want to win, but my god I feel like this is going to take forever. I really like Blazblue but no wonder most of my friends just prefer Smash.
@@__-fi6xgno it's not, you might pick up one new thing, but you don't get to play the game, you won't learn shit by watching yourself get bodied.
"It is possible to make no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life."
-Captain Picard
"Mistakes are only personally learning steps" --myself
HAHAHAHA!
Thought that said Captain Toad for a sec
"you are a mistake"
-your mom
Did he say that after Data lost to that cocky space chess master?
The hardest thing in a fighting game is online play with a terrible connection.
+Baked Sale that is true, so very true
a connection so bad that the game froze for 5 seconds and suddenly you see "ROUND 2. FIGHT"
+Baked Sale Fighting games are hard because 90% of people online are cowardly spammers, they create a spam combo that is inescapable, I might as well drop the controller, unless they fuck up, I'm defenseless
bennymountain1 Dragonball Raging blast 2
bennymountain1 even in street fighter 4, they jump on your head with Bison or shoryuken spam with ken or ryu
the hardest thing is finding someone willing to teach you who has the patience to actually teach and not just say "you just have to get good." god please teach me.
get good nub.
get good nub.
There's nothing much to teach. Just look at the command list and learn. Also get good.
@@jenishpokhrel2409 Got it. Don't even bother.
@@zylokun right
I have no clue how you play or why your bad, but I can tell you the first thing in any fighting game you _need_ to learn is the movement and the defensive options. Don't worry about flashy combos or how to cancel attacks, just learn how to not get hit first. For example, in skullgirls I spent a lot of time labbing out how to zone and how certain moves moves my characters about with a team of fukua/squiggly/robo fortune. I still have a lot of issues with the blocking and advanced guarding though...I have gotten a lot better at it though ever since my cousin decided to start constantly rushing me down because he noticed XD
regardless, after that is learning when it's your turn, basically
a lot of that comes from trial and error, but generally a good run of thumb is a simple jab after a block string ends, which often is hard to identify in a game like skullgirls.
I honestly can't help you until I know what exactly the problem _is_ TBH
and I be pretty mediocre, just really good at identifying mistakes
I realize this is an old video, but the idea that “you have to lose a lot at the start” really just reflects that the communities are small and have few new/low level players compared to many other games. Imagine playing league of legends and when you’re new there’s just not enough other bronze players for you to play against.. so you have to learn against platinum or above players. People would probably feel the same about lol as they do most fighting games
this is a very good point
You'll learn quicker when you fight someone that is better than you.
@@JesseLegend149 this is the same sentiment as "Get gud bruh" the "learn from your mistakes" only applies if you fight against someone equally shit as you and have less moments of frustration over not playing the game.
@@JesseLegend149 Yeah but you'll be more inclined to quit too, which is not a good business model when you think about it
@@2ch921 it's not about complexity or how hard it actually is, it's about who you fight or learn against, like no shit you can't learn from your mistakes if against someone that optimized to the point you cant play to even process or make a move. If your learning, its a snowball of learning from vague mistakes to pinpoint mistakes to know how to do better. You ain't learning if every move you choose is a mistake. Me and my friends snowballed to super platinum mostly by practicing against each other as shitty players learning from vague mistakes to learning how to read people. Plus you ain't dropping it if people are at your skill level instead of matching a bronze v Diamond
The hardest thing in fighting games is trying to teach my friend how to play, so I'll have an opponent
Update six months later: My friend still hasn't given up and now he's pretty good
i agree
Then ur friend beats u and u get salty...
@@zinelabidineaouidi3359 F
@@zinelabidineaouidi3359 F
This is a cosmic feel.
Hardest thing? Making my fingers make the controller do what i want to do instead of stupidly missing that 5 input
Same. I've been maining Skarlet in MK11 and while I can land her 270~% damage combo in practice almost half of the time, in actual battle I either miss a button so it does less damage or I drop the string entirely.
DC, MK, & FlyLo You’re probably rushing, stay in practice until you can hit it 9 times out of 10, or even better 10 out of 10.. What I do when learning a character is learn their moves, strings/combos etc and then whack it on very hard in practice mode and keep playing until I can take 3-4-5 bars of their health before they can take one of mine, then I feel ready to go practice online in casuals against real people
@@dcmkflylo1603 Stop playing MK.
@@tylarjones9281 No.
@@dcmkflylo1603 To add on to what he said, you are also under a lot of pressure outside of practice mode. Especially in some ranked matches, and even more so at tournaments. Even if you're playing at a small tournament with close friends, if you're playing with people who are your match, you're going to feel the pressure at the highest level and mess up a lot more than you normally would.
Basically, do what the guy said and practice enough until you get it 9/10 or 10/10 of the time. It'll limit the input errors in these situations. Decision making will end up becoming your only enemy later on if you truly overcome this part of it all.
Good luck bro
God, a very simple feature that would make fighting games much easier to get into would be the ability to *slow down time* in practice mode. For a beginner, it's really rough to learn combos because you first have to memorize the inputs and then you have to learn to execute the combos in the appropriate rhythm. It would be sooo nice if a beginner could slow the game down to the point that they can read and execute the inputs at the same time. In the same way a musician slows down a piece they're learning, fighting games would benefit tremendously from this feature. Shoot, this is actually a feature in real fighting lol. First, you gotta learn how to punch with good form, and you practice that in slow motion to train muscle memory.
Another feature that would be nice is ripped straight out of rocket league. Most fighting games have some kind of combo practice mode, where you gotta execute a combo to clear a challenge. In rocket league, they have that mode where you practice hard shots, but the kicker is that users can craft and upload their *own* practice shots, creating a community where people are actually sharing the ways that they practice and lifting the skill base of the entire community. Do that for fighting games too! If players could upload their own combos for people to mimic, or blockstrings they practice *against* to get better at escaping, it would be tremendous.
What's cool is Uniclr has the feature where you can slow down time in practice mode. I used it a couple times when a combo got to complex for me and it was satisfying to see my combo go from only able to do it in slow mode into seeing it being done in real time. I don't know any game which does the latter statement but i think it would be cool if we did had a share community tag in game where you can share combos instead of just looking at combo tutorials on youtube or seeing that one guy on twitter post specific combos.
The best in game tutorial I've come across (imo) was in Dead or Alive for PSOne. It showed you the combo and it showed the correct button presses as you were tapping them out.
YES
Skullgirls 2nd encore have the 2 options you just mentioned, in training mode you can slow the game and it comes with a "challenge" mode that teaches you combos for the character you want. Sadly the game is not that popular.
Edit: the game also have other features in the training mode like hit and hurtboxes.
Smash bros (ultimate) may not have the most reliable training mode unmodded, but it can slow down the game!
The hardest thing is when someone asks "Are you okay?" while being 3 stocked.
Sounds Terryble.
@@tigergames7849 terry-fic joke
Geez, that sounds Terry-fying
“No i’m not okay, I just got 3 stock-“
*BUSTER WOLF*
One of the hardest things about getting good at fighting games is in my opinion finding people near your level. Yes getting bodied by pros and wiping the floor with scrubs is a part of the learning process. But playing someone of your own ability allows you to think while you play because you are at equal standing with your foes. Conversely playing against someone who you are beating because they don't know what they are doing will usually put the winning players head in to auto mode and getting beaten by a expert most of the time means watching your character get combo'd while you look on in frustration. There is no way to really solve this problem, the ranking systems in most fighting game don't mean anything. I've lost to 400pp ryus and beat 2000-3000pp dudleys. The only real way to find people at your level is going the extra mile and looking for them on the internet or through your friends. Alot of people won't go this extra mile. Does that mean its up to the developers to fix this problem? Maybe, or maybe not. In the end fighting games take dedication,.
+munnypantz This is true, and I do think developers are working on this. The Capcom Fighters Network seems pretty serious, but we'll have to wait and see.
+Core-A Gaming i have to tell you a 2 little storys.
1)In our city we have a comicon like event. And we have a very little tournament in tekken 6. 2 weeks before this con, one man find me and asking about some tournaments or people that playing T6. I tell him that in our event we have a tournament. I was the best in our little community, but i dont know how to make jugles in Tekken. But i playing with smart, and punishing enemy mistakes. That guy (he play as Steve) just go in and beat everybody exept me. Just because i lose to a man that spam Asuka reversal. For this i was just not ready. Steve win this torunament and only after this he teach how to play tekken correctly.
2) I buy USF4 several weeks ago and in our country SF franchise is known but unpopular at all. So i just can find people that can teach me some things and i can play with offline to practice. And i cant play with anybody that more far from me than France. In USF4 i set up player rank in search like "Same". I found just guys with 2k pp that just killing me all the time.
PS. Sorry for my bad english)
PPS. I from Ukraine.
Yeah, hopefully the Capcom Fighters Network thing can help people find each other to play locally.
+munnypantz this, for real. I think being able to find an environment that cultivates the player properly is a huge part of the entry barrier to fighting games. I think it's bigger than "oh, it's so hard to press the buttons right!". Someone living in the middle of nowhere, or just an unpopular fighting game location may never get to play people in a casual friendly real-life environment against more evenly matched opponents, where they'd get feedback on their performance. A player in such a dead zone has little options besides jumping straight in to getting destroyed online by seasoned players (potentially, depending on how good or poor ranking systems are) and trying to analyze how best to improve off replays by themselves. Even being able to have faces to look forward to meeting and beating can keep a new player invested in the game. The fighting game world's a big ocean, and no scrub is an island.
+SylemGistoe I get the dead zone concept of not being close to an offline community and how difficult it can be. However especially in the anime community I have heard of guys who pick up the game, aren't close to a scene but go a far reaching events and improve drastically over time. And these people really have to make twice the effort to lab up hard since they have no competent opponents so they have to watch videos and grind tutorial modes.
I was chilling in an Xrd stream and some of the folks were talking about going to big events and such. And one guy wrote down simply that if you are passionate about the game and you are in a "dead zone" like situation, *make an concerted effort to come out to the big events*. You don't have to compete at a high level (of course) but treat it like its the only place where you can get as much matches as you can for your game in a few days. So what if you are free in the pools when it is the only time you can get to experience fighting someone who understands the meta game.
I think the problem is people aren't taking advantages of every opportunity that are presented to them. Capcom Fighters Network may be doing the SFV community a huge favor but at the same time, people should make the direct correlation that if you don't have many options, then take online losses even against good players who are character specialists as a good thing. And be meticulous at addressing those losses rather than accepting the loss as it is.
The hardest thing about fighting games is trying to calm my friend down when he hits himself for losing in fighting games
Jesus that's a bit far, is he doing ok?
gamer gamer I do it, a lotta ppl do it
😬
Yeah, I can understand him
Everytime I lose I hammerfist my knee
5:20 "get bodied by pros over and over again"
Not the best way to convince new players into the genre.
It's the truth though.
@@user-kg6lf1op2l that is wrong. studies have shown moderate success and loss increase the most skill over time. constantly getting destroyed or destroying others has resulted very little skill increase. look it up
@@alexanderredhorse1297 yes there is such thing as baby steps and it works but there is that point where you need to lose to learn to get better though
There is one point where you must be pushed and conditioned skillwise and mentally as well
Guess you don't understand what he means by getting bodied by pros, ill explain. If a pro bodies you over and over again you are most likely with the pro and by getting bodied he will make it obvious what your weaknesses are and how to adjust. Once you do this ( will take time ) you keep asking and keep receiving until you are able to get a couple hits on them and actually defend there stuff sometimes. Then when you play your friends or anyone that isnt a PRO you will feel more comfortable than them and in most cases out right destroy them.
It's how it works.
You get better by learning through defeat. Improve, change your strategy, learn how to counter, etc. Back in the days of MvC, i knew this guy who won by spamming Megaman's blaster and thought he was good. Then comes someone else who schools the shit out of him by doing a death combo with Wolverine.
Learn how to do the inputs, how to combo and adapt to the different characters. And you can only achieve that by getting your shit kicked in repeatedly until improving.
Getting my wife into fighting games was actually pretty difficult, but the smooth animations and aesthetic of Skullgirls won her over and she's been practicing everyday to master the in-game tutorial. During that time I've been teaching her how to properly hold her controller and have been going over some of the struggles she's been having learning how to land combos.
At the same time, I'm also still learning the game and still trying to clear the Trials mode with three different characters. So far Filia is the only character I've cleared Trials with. We haven't played any matches against each other, yet, but that's because my cousin is closer to her skill level, so I'm letting her have the satisfaction of training to beat him, first.
Nice I wish I could get my wife into fighting games.
Yeah im into Skullgirls too
Obviously for the gameplay, not the waifu
You cant spell life without an L
The L is also the first thing in Life
No wooosh here you goober
Wrong comment here dude. I was supposed to post this in someone else comment
suigintou101 then delete it?
@@shoganai2545 why I posted as wrong. No need to
What's difficult to me is the mechanics. No fighting game has ever actually explained the mechanics. They might tell you a super move or two or a combo, but spacing? Option selects? Especially frame data? Hit and hurt boxes? These are the things I would want to see in a tutorial or just somewhere I the game. Instead of relying on trial and error or other people graciously posting videos based on their own trial and error. It just seems sloppy as hell to me.
i'm an I-No player in GGXrd and went on to get 15 win streak in ranked but i have no idea what frames are or option select.
*cough* smashbros *cough*
Bai Laohu killer instinct
Bai Laohu virtua Fighter does that pretty well. doa5u has a ok tutorial too
Guilty Gear Xrd: Revelator probably has one of the best tutorials i've seen in fighting games. It goes through nearly every mechanic and tool you have at your disposal.
If you want fighting games to keep the "trial by fire" approach to difficulty where the majority of your learning is done through failure, then the genre will remain niche. That's the trade-off.
Mostly because throwing someone into fire and just telling them to push through it as quickly as possible doesn't make it any easier.
It just makes them burn more.
@@shadowangel6359 Exactly. It's really not a great environment for learning, especially if you're new to the genre.
@@hoodiesticks At best, I can imagine having a tutorial for basic mechanics and then tutorials for each character would help to better understand their mechanics and how to use them to the best of their abilities.
Just because other fighting game veterans became great through trial by fire does not make trial by fire a perfect mindset to train newcomers to the genre.
@@shadowangel6359 no amount of beating up the AI will teach you the habits, preferations and gimmicks of a real human being you're inevitably going to verse. It's been put very precisely in another core-a video that fighting games are a speed algebra+geometry competition multiplied by a battle on a psychological level. No tutorial or a training mode will ever teach you the latter - arguably most important - part
@@looneymar9153 And no amount of losing to human players without being taught what you did wrong or no hint to how you can improve is no different.
Your point, exactly?
Can't necessarily build a house when you don't know what tools to use, what tools you need, or how to use the tools you have.
The hardest thing about fighting games is...
*Connection with opponent lost. [40002]*
I have a weird stage fright when I attempt to play with or against other players online.
JenWithThePen I use to do that also but I just think of them as even smart AI and most of them won’t get mad or tell you terrible things and if they do , they’re not worth your time
Laurence Cornwall-Mann do you wash underneath your foreskin regularly? I think the smegma is cutting off the blood flow to your brain
@Soul King And in the end, without losing we dont know what winning is.
@@CPSPD Damn bro. You killed him.
It goes away.
Fun fact -
Fighting games is placed second last on the sales statistic chart for the most played genre's in the U.S. The fighting genre only just made it above Strategy games which is placed last (A genre that is equally difficult for beginners to get good at).
Sounds good to me
The 90s were when fighting games were at their most popular. My friends and I after school would always rush to the local arcade to play the latest Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, or Tekken. Good fucking times😁😁
@@bigballzmcdrawz2921 that's because local multiplayer meant you were Onyl playing people as good as yourself msot of the time. As kid you could button mash other kids and have tonne sof fun. Online play just isn't as fun when your trash and learbigb curve is high
@@umt6429 You just have to get good enough to not be trash. Be willing to lose for a week and you will at least be as good as most people you fight. And you will be playing the game somewhat properly, rather than mashing.
um t it would appear that a keyboard also has a learning curve
5:06 Extra Credits said NOTHING about high-level play. He just wanted players to be able to play fighting games at somewhat decent level when you at least understand what's going on and how to deal with new problems (where and what to look at during game).
The hardest thing about fighting games is neutral game and space-time button interactions. These are obscure, non-inuitive, and practically unlearnable for a lot of people without a teacher or a LOT of external information in general. And it's the core mechanic. Yeah, enough said.
I agree, this is still a good video but EC was just talking about getting the player to a level were they can understand the rules enough to know WHY they're getting bodied. Some fighting games feel like playing chess without anyone telling you what each piece does, thats what has to change.
@@TheNintro7 You're either talking about old games that don't have tutorials and/or command list, or missing the point, getting to a "decent level" and knowing what is making you lose are way harder than just being thought that stuff, think about the fact that people pay for coaching. It's not like you can get through a barrier set by your own understanding and mindset just by having better tutorials, a tutorial should be there to make you understand the basics of what's going on, not help you cheat out of getting bodied.
Plus, in some newer games like Punch Planet, in the command list there's information about the moves' properties. Let's also mention the fact that most new fighting games don't only come with a tutorial but also mini character guides that tell you enough to start playing against people and understand a good amount of what's going on.
@@norock_ Ill admit that i don't know how well every new game is treating tutorials, I've played Tekken, MK11, Street fighter and Smash recently. The way i think about "decent" level is understanding the core concepts of fighting games like footsies, what tools can counters missles and area control. Whenever i get into a new game i tend to just skip the tutorial and head straight to UA-cam for someone to explain it to me. If tutorials nowadays look like guilty gear's, then i can't complain
No, EC's video at its core was about being able to GET TO high level play. Core-A was right.
My answer would be that fighting games are hard because you're expected to both know enough about game mechanics to be able to form strategies, and have good enough reflexes to be able to apply that knowledge in real-time. Reflexes without strategy just makes you a button-masher, strategy without reflexes makes you really easy to read and unable to react or adapt, and precious few people have skill in both areas. It's basically speed chess on steroids.
Yep. They are not fighting games, they are Rock, Paper and Scissors played at an insane speed...a speed that's physiologically impossible for all but the extreme outliers.
The most important thing that a fighting game can do to help a newbie get into the game isn't necessarily teaching them how to play. It's telling them why they're losing. When you get punched in the face, what you did wrong is straightforward. When you're missing a timing window to counter a move but have no idea whether you were too soon, too late, in recovery over a prior ability, in hitstun, in blockstun, or what have you, you get stuck unable to make progress. You turn from practicing to flailing.
I kinda feel like that's what Extra Credits was going for with it's explanation for an expanded Single Player mode.
It's not about having a safe space to teach people how to be good at the game but more a safe space to teach people how a game /works/, so that when playing with actual people and getting totally bodied by them they actually have some sort of understanding as to /why/ they got bodied instead of just staring in disbelief.
Although giving like a small tutorial of basic controls is not bad, though.
Yes. I feel like fighting games do an absolutely atrocious job of teaching you the fundamental concepts.
What gets me is the stuff you have to learn not to be GOOD at the game, but to just be able to play it in a functional way.
Button mashing can work, but you're not really playing the game if you do it. It's like playing an FPS by holding the trigger down and hoping you'll hit something just through dumb luck.
But if you don't know the moveset of your character, you're already at a massive disadvantage just from that alone.
And this can involve 60-70 unique moves that have arbitrary button combos that you can only really learn by memorisation.
For all this, all that fighting games have done here with this moveset and the input schemes that activate them, is take a game design that basically demands having 75 buttons plus some directional control, and somehow mapped it onto a controller that only has 6 buttons.
Thus, memorising a bunch of input sequences not because that makes sense, but basically just because your controller doesn't have enough buttons.
And meanwhile, even though it's almost a pre-requisite to be good at the game that you know this moveset, it isn't by itself teaching you anything about how to actually play the game.
Knowing how to pull off moves is the least important part, but also one of the most time consuming.
And the stuff that is actually important to getting to be any good at the game, meanwhile is stuff you rarely if ever get taught.
It's really kind of insane.
I got streetfighter 5 played it 3 weeks and was like i dont get the fighting mechanics of the game its just weird i used to be really good at doa 5 and 4 but i just dont get behind streetfighters fighting mechanics after playing doa for years streetfighter feels mashy idk guess i need to watch more videos
If you're looking for a game that ACTUALLY teaches you how to play, then try out Guilty Gear Xrd. The tutorial is long as shit, but it teaches you properly every concept of the game.
Better tutorials won't hurt, though.
Play Blazblue/Under night in birth
Lascell Taylor or Rivals of Aether
@@Account-1536 or Skullgirls
Most modern fighters include extensive tutorials though, even a game as old as SF4 has a pretty good training mode and tutorials for complex combos.
ArcSys games have incredible tutorials, but I rarely look at them because the application of those tutorials still takes a lot of practice and butting your head against other people
The problem is always time. The older you get, less time you have to invest in videogames. If the game demands an insane amount of hours for you to simply start having fun, it will quickly become a niche game.
Well said ... I took the time to be okayish with Street Fighter 2 ... come SF4 there was just so much more in the way of supers, ultras, etc. that I would have to learn as well, and am just not that ready to commit to learning all that ... why not learn something actually useful in life with all the time you need to 'get good'?
See this how I know that I'm getting older for video games by the fact that nowadays I prefer casual and simple games compared to hardcore or niche games that require time investment just to be able to enjoy the game.
@@FoxyPiratess unless you have the health of a obese person, you can afford to spend some time daily to get better
Just don't have kids or a significant other and you'll have plenty of time
Fighting games feel like this to me:
Okay kid, today your gonna learn how to swim!
*Throws kid in 8 ft side of the pool with no floaties*
Play story for basics
Arcade for battle sense
And then play ranked(if available).
Fighting games are Heihachi and newbies are Kazuya.
@Awhol Lotta Whoopass did you learn to swim still?
My dad told me that's how he learned to swim.
@@teeemo3445 besto way xD
Mortal Kombat 11s complete tutorial gives a basic introduction to pretty much every mechanic there is in most fighting games. I've been casually playing MK for 6 years and in that tutorial I learned somethings I never even heard of all this time.
@DeadMemes NeedToStayDead are you daft? He was just saying that the tutorial in MK is good, and that it teaches you certain fundamentals (like frame advantage, basic mixups and how to defend against them, etc) that most older fighting game tutorials had historically skipped out on.
Like he wasnt complaining or implying that MK was the best game, or that Guilty Gear was bad (or any other FG was bad).
Like holy shit you went bananas for no reason, learn to express yourself online, good grief
@DeadMemes NeedToStayDead lmao loser u got bitched out by a reply and didnt even make a comeback, baby ass manlet, or should i say baby ass weeb lolol
@@lyricchristopher503 in their defense, UA-cam does a shit job notifying people about replies, so it's entirely possible they don't even know lol
@DeadMemes NeedToStayDead I was gonna play GG but because of this comment, now I'm not.
PJayX killer instinct has a pretty in depth tutorial also, and I learned a lot from it
The fact of the matter is that Fighting games are simply a genre that will NEVER be crazy popular. During the golden age of arcades it was, but that was a different time. The reason is quite simple actually.
It all comes down to time Needed to be put into the game in order to mastery it. In order to get to a level you can be considered ''Decent'' will require hundreds of hours Practicing in training mode, Hard wiring moves and combos to muscle memory, Getting beat up by experts, learning about matchups and game mechanics so you can master every single manouver in your arsenal, Et cetera et cetera. Then you need to learn how to use all of those to actually win against someone who also knows about them.
The problem is, None of this is fun. Doing the same combo over and over again against a dummy foe in training is not fun, staring at the same screen is not fun, going on a never ending losing streak is not fun, reading up on matchups only gets you frustrated, and so forth. And while you're doing this, you know that there is an avalanche of other genres you know you'd enjoy much faster. Many, many who try just say ''fuck it''.
fighting games are not the only games that have this problem. Like dark souls, as it also has a learning curve and the game will kill you until you start to physically get ill, but you learn it AS you play through it. Someone who has beaten dark souls definetly knows how to play, and even has a chance against every foe who happens to invade his game.
Alas, Fighting game can never have this luxury, as Computer simply, not matter how hard it's difficulty is, cannot replicate how an actual human being fights, because every player is different. Heck, the player might even know of a mechanic or an exploit the computer does not! You can tip the odds against the player when dealing with A.I. but this is a very bad idea, making the match feel unfair. And every battle in Fighting game is fair. Or at least mostly.
You could simplify the game. But in doing so you also remove depth. I once asked when i was very young ''Why don't combo's just happen when you hammer the same button?'' Which is because, then every combo is the same, which is boring to play, and even more boring to watch. There is of course fighting games that have comboes you can do with one button, But that's only the first part. removal of mechanics that exist in every fighting game Hardly works, because if you do, the game feels boring.
Thus, Fighting games are a genre that 75% of gamers do not have the time, patience, or desire to learn them. 25% of people who do, half succeed, other give up. I myself belong sadly to those who tried but failed. I do however, Find fighting games extremely interesting, fun to play with friends and Watch experts play.
su
I agree with your argument, but personally I find any pratice that pushes me to my end-goal to be really fun.
Practicing electrics for 2 hours straight? Sure why not. It's fun getting better.
So combos are the hill you say fighting games should die on? A hill that interrupts a multiplayer game (you fighting the other guy) with a single player game (you fighting the game mechanics that make comboing hard)?
Shane Vincent Combos are not the only hill. Heck, i would more compeare it to a mountain range. There is a lot more than just Combos to fighting games. Combo's however, i consider the the first hurdle. street fighter comboes i consider the most shortest and easiest, but they are still extremely difficult for anyone who has never really played 2D fighters before. And next you have to be able to pull them of consistently against real human opponents.
***** Well how about this. Partly repeating an idea expressed in this video, keep the difficult combos, but also add easy to execute combos. And make it so that learning the hard combos is not necessary to be good at the game.
It sort of makes me thing of Counter Strike: Global Offensive; a competitive game that I have logged 858hrs in.
In the game, the only offline training you could do (outside aim training) is recoil control. Most of the weapons in CS:GO have a predictable recoil pattern that can be controlled. And if you can control it, they you can maintain high accuracy even while going full auto.
But the way the game is designed is that fully learning the recoil pattern is not necessary. Maybe like for the first 5 or so shots (which is the easiest part; the recoil pattern gets significantly harder to control as it runs its course) is a good thing to learn. But you don't need to go fully auto in that game to be super good.
Instead it turns into a sort of playstyle choice. You'll find people who base their gameplay and aiming around tap shooting. And then you'll find people who prefer burst fire. And then you'll find people who prefer full auto. And you'll find people from all three of these groups in top level play.
The hardest thing in fighting games is having no friends or partners to play with.
This. I want to get into FGCs but I dont have anyone who can teach me.
It's all good looking at guides on YT but they only go so far.
Most of my friends are playing fortnite sadly
Learning a fighting game legitimately feels like work sometimes. Its hard to convince someone to play and learn a fighting game with you
This is why Discord is amazing.
My girlfriend and I are Martial Artists and we grew up with fighting games and play them occasionally now as adults.. We know the pain of having to lose to the likes of Omega Rugal in KOF 95 and to people who play fighting games with us as much as we do losing in tournaments for our respective Martial Arts..
I would equate getting better at fighting games to the (neverending) journey you take as a Martial Artist.
Afterall people often neglect the fact that a black belt, despite being something you earn, is but the beginning of your journey... Hence it being called a "Shodan" in Karate.
So in both Fighting Games and Martial Arts it's ultimately up to YOU and no else to reach that level of skill you wish to attain. 🙏👊🥋❤️
To be fair we don't have lag in the real world. The issue i see in comparing martial arts to fighting games is that fighting games offer a complete range of playstyles completely separate from each other with plenty of variation in between. In a some of the fighting games I've played I've noticed a big issue. Developers and/or players favoring a certain playstyle due to a low skill ceiling, low risk high reward, or typically safe kits. You then have new players who like a certian characters kit getting absolutely mulched because easier or stronger characters exist in the roster. It would be like you suddenly having to go up against someone who's practiced HEMA for years (Historial European Martial arts). While you could possibly win, it almost has nothing to do with skill and more to do with the equipment and natural advantages they have against you. Fighting games with assists (for example Bandai Namcos My Hero One's Justice 2) some characters can get much more out of assists than other characters. Giving them an extreme advantage that those less familiar with assists can get. You may see both assists work well for character x but no assists combo works well with character y.
You then have to contend with poor winners/losers who may berate you or abuse report functions as a petty form of revenge or in extreme cases "Keeping scrubs away from the game" granted such extreme situations like that are rare, but the toxicity with ranked and online games is not.
I think the hardest part for fighting games for me is finding competition in your local area. I just want somewhere I can go to locally to practice against real people. Most of my friends don’t play fighting games though
The life blood of any fighting game is Player 2
I don't know ur age but I too miss playing on the arcade at the "video store with 5 of my friends blowing rolls of quarters a day made us better players challenging each other.
For me I think it is the button mash aspect plus not knowing how to do it since most instructions are not exists at all or hard to understand
Yeah, it's hard to look for an opponent with a less popular Fighting game. Like legit I think I'm the only dude in my area where I can properly play Skullgirls.
@@magosexploratoradeon6409 Why not just switch to playing SF? Pretty much the same thing.
Lmao, that picture of the “local liquor store” is down my street 🤣
so it IS your local liqour store
Lmao where are u from?
How many knife wounds do you have and/or given out?
The hardest thing in fighting games for me isn't all that stuff you were talking about, it's the very basics. Getting a grasp on the movements, learning how to perform certain moves, and understanding how to combo different moves into eachother. When I started fighting games, those were the things that were hard for me. Literally just moving in a fighting game is hard. The walk is slow and you can't walk while attacking, the jumps aren't very precise, all that. Then on top of that, learning all the commands is tedious and I still find them hard to do with my regular console controller. Then, most of the moves don't naturally combo into eachother, they're all like seperate things and it feels a bit jarring to learn how to combo.
Thank you for not making me feel alone.
The reason why it's so hard for me to get into Fighting Games is that, unlike any other genre I play, if I get destroyed, I often learn nothing at all.
If I play something like idk Rocket League, if I get destroyed, I can clearly see and learn through the things I did wrong, maybe I need to be more aggressive, maybe I need to improve my defense, simple stuff like that. While in Dragon Ball FigherZ for instance, everything happens so fast and with so many flashy effects and movements that look so similar to one another that the only thing I see clearly is my health bar melting while I can hardly move at all.
You get it. I also don't learn much from fighting games if I lose. I learn more from my chess wins and losses since I can see what I did right or wrong.
Would be really nice if there was a single player mode that taught you these concepts so you didn’t have to figure them all out yourself
I think that if DBFZ too fast paced for you, try a slower paced game, since DBFZ is one of the fastest games people play. In something like SF6 it is very easy to identify where you went wrong for example. It IS possible to get into DBFZ but you have to find someone on your skill level. It was my first fighting game and I had a training partner who grew alongside me until I mastered the fundamentals which helped me into loving the whole genre!
"You'l be told to man up by an oldschool veteran who has knife wounds from winning too much in Street Fighter II in the 90's at his local liquor store."
Sounds like the Chinese FGC. DO NOT RAW SUPER IN KOF
Reading about that shit was scary!
thats what sexpat does
In my neighbourhood it was the reality. I had to fight with older and bigger dudes when they tried to push me of the arcade machine. Luckily I was better at real life fighting than at fighting games.
@@CasualRemy jusr read up on it, it sounded like they realized what they were doing in the end and made up. still fucked up though.
You don't take into account that there's literally no learning opportunity in getting thrashed in the corner by a pro...
Getting trashed in the corner means you let him trash you in the corner which means you lost footsies. Learning how to deal with specific strategies in footsies is probably the most important part of the game.
Well that's kinda my point though, like, there's no opportunity to learn when you can't grab the opportunity to even land a hit.
''Getting thrashed in a corner'' is one of the most common problems when playing a match against a good player in a fighting game. But learning is possible yet. If you are closed in corner you can try to block each attack, waiting for an opportunity to counter. Or, you can just wait for an moment when you can jump above the opponent to the other side...Well, the point is: after losing, you gonna start to think on a plan to not being cornered and think more before acting, because you had passed that situation so many times that you got experienced to what you can't do. What makes an player good in a fighting game is the capacity of not give chance to opponent find an oppening and think before acting, not commiting excessive errors. This is acquired after losing many times and learning with your errors. If you lose on a regular match, the only culprit is yourself.
Then learn how to not get pushed into the corner.
You can't learn to not get pushed into the corner if you aren't given the opportunity to learn to not get pushed into the corner. Fighting games are the worst games for conveying to the player as to how to play.
0:30 “I’ll try spinning, that’s a good trick”
The hardest thing for me in fighting games is memorizing combos. Plus making a whole list just to remember all these moves and then feel the pressure to try out combos even against CPUs is hell for me.
memorizing combos and then your side gets switched and I am like a fish out of the water.
I just feel like I can't do the right thing at the right time. I wish there was some hidden tech, but obviously thats not a thing, I grew up playing shooters like tf2, Siege, csgo, battlefield, halo, and cod... Especially the first three of those, so playing other shooters like paladins, overwatch, and other random games comes relatively naturally to me, and I have friends who don't play shooting games who I've played with- who sound very similar to my issue, "I just can't aim fast enough or move." So I guess it kind of goes both ways?
I hoped that'd make me feel better but it doesn't, its demoralizing to play Strive- a simple game, and not even be able to perform consistent combo's, or block, dodge, or even grasp the limited amounts of mechanics, sometimes I feel like I just can't.
Get your neutral game together
Neutral game refers to playing without any special moves or flashy combos
@@Azure9577 that's not what neutral means
@@WeedSmoker69 I know now lmao, that was 9 months ago
I think your point about tutorials is a little off. Yeah I get that simply knowing how the game works won't make you good at the game - but it will ALLOW you to get good at the game. In Tekken for example, the idea of a low block punish is an integral part of the game - the opponent goes for a risky attack, you predict or react to it and accordingly punish this. There is nothing in the games telling you how to do this or why it is important. The games story mode has a 'story assist' button, which makes you able to do complicated moves much easier - but nowhere does it tell you about movement, whiff punishing, pressure tools or the all important frame advantage which is one of the core concepts the game balances on. Just getting bodied by some FG god won't help you learn the game if you don't know how the game works. Having some kind of basic learning tutorial that tells you the concepts would be very beneficial to fighting games.
portl "walk before you run" comes to mind. Basics are the foundation upon which advanced technique is built until that advanced technique feels basic to u. I agree tutorials are very useful to new/inexperienced players. I also feel they should be totally optional. Like... I hate mandatory tutorials lol
I absolutely agree with you. I’m terrible at fighting games but I recently won a match against a player who’s been teaching me the game because a friend who was spectating our matches taught me about advanced concepts like pressure and frame traps. If he wasn’t there I would’ve never learned how to deal with my opponents strategies. It doesn’t help that even games with great tutorials like Skullgirls or Guilty Gear didn’t teach me about this.
I bought Skullgirls partially because I heard it had a great tutorial. The information is really good, but kicking me out of the tutorial as soon as I successfully block three hits does not teach me good blocking ability. I'm kind of surprised a god tier tutorial fighter hasn't come out yet.
That's what I love about Skullgirls.
A lot of what you mentioned, was never taught I just kinda learned from practice, but never gave it a name; from yearrrrs of playing Tekken since the first.
Skullgirls surprised me with how in depth and helpful their tutorial system is.
Exactly this.
Now, I'm a newbie at fighting games. I'm absolutely dreadful at most. But I played skullgirls which by and large is a classic 2D fighter. Yet despite this, after completing a lot of tutorials, I felt like I actually KNEW how to play.
After this video, I feel much better about getting my ass kicked in USF4 and UMVC3. Thanks!
dafuq you feel better about losing after watching this video. u should be disappointed in urself that you didn't put enuff time into practice mode.
fishywtf he basically said im order to learn, you have to grt beaten to learn your mistakes.
onesonicguy I remember you dude. what brings you to these parts?
Stephen Lyord Nothing much. Video games. And the fact that I kinda suck at most of them...
u cant be that bad.
The hardest thing is the lingo. Tutorials are filled with technical terms I can't understand. Damn it.
For me it’s the CPU. Specifically the older games, they always pull off some dumb mechanic or cheat or buff themselves to win. I don’t have friends to fight against so I just don’t play the game.
there are plenty of videos out there to help! Core A Gaming's "Why Button Mashing doesn't Work" has explanations for a lot of the key terms in a digestible format :)
@@judith4987 I've watched that vid before. It is not digestible. 😁😁 When he talked about the frame thing, he sounded like he's speaking northern Martian to me.
@@RexPhalange It basically just boils down to "is this action faster or slower than my opponents action, and can I do something before they're able to act again".
Plus frames mean your move is faster, minus frames mean your opponent's move is faster, a frame trap is when one person's move is so much faster that the other person has no followup move that could respond in time. Even if you don't totally grasp it I think that video still sums it up in such that you get the gist of it.
And even if you don't get the frame stuff the rest of the video is still totally digestible IMO. Enough for you to at least get a semi competent understanding of the terminology. Just because something is digestible doesn't mean it's going to be entirely effortless to understand, or that you should tune it all out the moment if it becomes challenging to follow at some point.
I think concepts are way more important than their names. My gameplay is based in footsies and I found out the name of that concept just yesterday. Also I've performed several 'meaty' hits without even knowing they were called that lol y just called that 'timing'
This video: EXISTS
LTG: Get that ass banned!
When people who aren't funny try to cash in on old memes.
@@NSLM Stay free, my man!
5:18 get out of your comfort zone on the *BEACHES OF NORMANDY*
Yes it do be like that sometimes when you try to get out of the comfort zone for fighting games, because your just being slaughtered by pro's
best comment lmao
THROUGH THE GATES OF HELL
AS WE MAKE OUR WAY TO HEAVEN
here's a guitar. this are the frets, the strings, and this is a pick. if you press the strings against the frets and pick at the same time you will hear a note. now, go play duels with steve vai until you figure out how to play. that's not how learning works
Wow, that's pretty apt.
Implying that learning to beat a human opponent in a fighting game and playing guitar are the same thing. lol
If I could like this twice I would
Emmett Lynch I must have missed that because I totally got the analogy he made about learning and nowhere did he state that two different things were in fact the same thing.
Depends. Do you kearn by yourself or just become good overtime. Good gamers learn on the fly when they apply their gaming wisdom.
I personally find that the hardest part about learning fighting games is overcoming the long history I have with single player games. I have conditioned myself to expect to win, and that's been a HUGE barrier to overcome for me.
I kinda dislike the notion of you having to get good and be competitive to enjoy fighting games. You can still enjoy fighting games casually and that is also cool.
I think the hardest thing is how to actually learn from your mistakes (and for some: how to ask for ways to improve rather than getting salty and talking trash--blaming the game or opponent).
That's ok too
+Tkat Gameing You rralize that the FGC is more of a blanket term for all the different communities, right? Every game has a different community, so you can't just say the FGC as a whole is toxic. You have to call out the individual communities that are toxic.
+Tyler Doak exactly, you can spot an intelligent person because instead of saying "omg, ur 2 good i give up" when they lose they say "how do you do that?"
No doubt. People are generally eager to tell you whats up as well... but unfortunately there are jokers who revel in the victory instead. So on that note, it's important to be good on both ends of the aspect. Be willing to help!
Like was said: It's about getting better, it's not about winning (not all the time at least ;P )
it has took me at least two years of competitive ssb to get good at competitive stuff in general and the best part is no salt was needed and I learned from my mistakes, but, I encounter a shit ton of salt and people who don't know who they're up against (in the sense of trash talk and hope they win)
In a fighting game, if you fail it's your fault and yours only.
Except for DSP, it's always the lag for him.
devilhitman24 it's the games fault many times as well
na i disagree you had the option to learn the games shortcomings an how to avoid being affected by the game design flaws
Parasite Pro-Tips not exactly. Anyone who can block darksied's instant full screen mix up is crazy. And I just got the game at Christmas so no I haven't had enough time exactly... You can't just assume people eventually finding a way to counter something means it's okay. Sometomes there's not really a counter or the risk of a counter isn't as bad as the reward of the move.
devilhitman24 not true
Or noob kids using scrub moves
Some of the coolest moments in playing fighting games online were going really long sets in Soulcalibur VI where I kept losing, but then finally learned enough to win a game, and the opponent (having no voicechat) crouched a few times in recognition like 'yeah, good job kid, nice win'. Then being able to do that for someone else later down the line. It's such a good feeling, taking the time to learn a system and improve at it and get to places you thought you wouldn't skill wise just by keeping at it.
Memorizing combos, doing the moves fast. I mean somehow I’m expected to remember the 3 to 5 button combination to press flawlessly to counter something that takes the character a second to do.
just go to training mode and practice the combo to build muscle memory, then it will be much easier
The hardest thing about fighting games is the fact they force you to accept that loss is your fault. "He spammed" Well it worked. "He took all my health in one combo" You could have avoided getting caught. Those situations don't seem fair but that's not what's important if you want to win you have to give up on the idea that the game is going to make things easier on you, people with all different playstyles manage to win in all different match ups proving that despite your lack of love for a certain playstyle or getting unga'd it isn't invincible. This is compounded by the fact that you're never guaranteed a repeat experience and learning from a replay is difficult because you're no longer in the moment. You have to work around concepts that form the basis for how other games work.
Ifa player can't do anything to escape a one touch of death combo then there's no counter play which is kinda boring imo.
ToDs tend to have a necessary starting point or set up, if you can make sure that you don't allow for that opening you avoid it. The simple response is don't lose neutral. Yeah it sucks to get hit by a ToD but they're also USUALLY not always strings or combos that require precision so drops end up being likely especially in the heat of the moment. Sometimes you may get hit by it but giving up or refusing to even try isn't the way to get past it.
Lucarioly This comment basically sums up my mindset while playing fighting games. Whenever I lose I always get upset and say "he was literally just spamming the same thing" or "that was cheap af".
The hardest thing about fighting games is maintaining anger
Keshawn Williams Seems like it’s more maintaining composure that’s the hard part
To get good at a fighting game you need to go in with the mindset that if you're not winning, you're learning.
Excellent.
Oh, I like the sound of that.
(° ω °)
Thank you~
Very true
That doesn't work. I've spent 238 hrs on Dragon Ball Fighterz and still can't land a bnb.
Alex Melendez you might be trying too hard. Make bread and butters that are consistent for you. Then start to deviate from those and extend as far as you can for strong bnbs
For me personally is because it's waaaaaaaaay too much of a time investment to get good enough to enjoy the game. I simply don't have that time as an adult, nor the willpower.
Thats fair but you don't have to be to enjoy fighting games imo
I do agree with Extra Credits about SP still being a good place to teach the player. It won't teach you to get godlike at the game, but the SP portion of fighting games could do a far better job at preparing you for fighting other players, by introducing the games concepts in a better way. If you can button-mash your way through the SP portion, the game has kind of failed, the game should require, or at very least encourage and expect you to use the tools you have at your disposal, so you know what you'll be up against and how to deal with it (at least in theory). Other fiercely competitive genres do this, like RTSs, so why not fighting games?
Well what do ya know, Street Fighter 6 is out and does almost everything mentioned
I'm sorry but getting "bodied" does not teach you how to play, the closer you are in level of skill to the person you beat the more you learn. "They're just as good as me so what did I do wrong" or "What did they do right" being closer in level makes that aspect so much easier to pick up on
Getting bodied doesn't teach you anything only if you're tilted about getting bodied. I used to get 4 stocks by a guy in my town in melee when I started to play, at first that just discouraged me, but then I started to accept the fact that I was getting bodied and started to think about what I was doing right and what I was doing wrong. I learned how to recognize and punish his mistakes, and now guess what ? After a year of playing I don't get bodied anymore, and I can even beat him sometimes. And now when I play against other ppl, I can see their mistakes much easier than if I played and trained against a player of my skill. In other words I learned faster by getting bodied.
Both of you are right to an extent. If you're playing ranked matches or something and you just get destroyed by someone who you play 2 fights against and will never see again, you will learn nothing. But if you go up against someone way better than you in an unranked set and they don't mind beating the pulp out of you for 20-30 fights, then you will almost certainly be better against them towards the end of your set.
Natsu you are absolutely right. That happened to me. After getting destroyed by my friend numerous times, i was able to beat him.
Basically practicing with a friend that knows way more than you.
ADAM4NTE it's still a problem because half the time you don't know what you're doing and even when you figure it out the other half the time the other player has the perfect answer and you end up thinking that you did something wrong when what you ended up doing was actually a correct response.
Losing to a pro teaches you nothing. There's a reason why you don't fight a black belt your first day of a martial art.
In a lot of fighting games, my fingers can't move fast enough to do basic combos even when I know what I'm supposed to be doing. (There's a move in BlazBlue where you have to jump and buffer two quarter circles and a face button before your character starts the animation to jump; it's ridiculous. And that's in the easy training part. No hope.)
BB veteran since Calamity Trigger, reporting in! ^.^7
Which character and which move is giving you trouble? Assuming it is still giving you trouble that is...
For example in my case: Many characters in Injustice 2 end combos with the throw input. (light+heavy) These though are very precise in timing. Most frustrating though. I go into practice and can execute perfectly. Any normal match for some reason. Even with the same timing just doesn't work out.
I know this comment is old but hopefully you see this or someone else does who struggles with this.
Do you mean that the move is a double quarter circle forward while airborne? The way you wrote it sounds like it's done during pre-jump frames but I'm not sure if that seems right. Very weird motion if so. Anyway, if you want to do this quickly it's not much different from doing it on the ground. Any motions done on the ground will also count while you're going into the air, as long as you do the motion during the buffer window for all special motions. So you can just do a regular grounded double QCF but just end the motion at up-forward. While you're jumping from the up-forward input, you can press the button and it will work.
Just keep practicing.
Honestly, your thumb is probably swinging up too high when you try to perform the quarter circle motions. That used to happen to me all the time and I had to watch my thumbs movements before I could do it without looking.
Offline content is a must for people to get into fighting games, mortal Kombat 11 does this best by having a lot of unlockable stuff ever-changing towers to win rewards, the best story mode out of the big three(Mk,sf, Tekken) and the Krypt.
The hardest thing about fighting games are people discouraging you to keep up, still losing to that player, failing that combo. Getting discouraged if you body someone or get bodied.
But still.. the feeling is great when you win. Keeping on fighting, losing, winning, playing and being so close to giving up.. but not doing that, keeping on forward determined to reach you goal.
That, is the spirit of fighting games
And also the hardest thing about them.
The problem with this video, is that you've asked the new player to be miserable for hours and hours before they can play the game at any kind of viable level. That is the problem, that is why the mainstream market doesn't play fighting games for more than a dip. Because in the 20 hours it takes me to learn all of Ryu's combos, his special moves, practice the frame timings, learn several matchups, and get good enough at the neutral game to get a better than 10% win rate, I could play all of Resident Evil 4. That is what this video ignores, that telling the player to just "jump in there and figure it out by losing!" is asking them to not have any fun for ages. To some people, the slow mastery will appeal to them, but the vast majority of people who would really like to play fighting games simply don't have the time to drill for hours while doing an activity that should be recreational. The issue isn't with a super high skill ceiling, it's with a skill floor that starts on top of Mt. Kilimanjaro. That is the core issue with the entire genre, a learning curve that has to be scaled with climbing pitons. Why are fighting games hard? Because they're built for people who already know them, not for new entrants.
Turtlewax63 No, people are just getting lazy and spoiled. You guys live in the age where videos on Fighting Games exist! In the 90s, people were able to figure it out and they had nothing. They had to start somewhere, right? Just like today. There is no excuse.
Bad design and learning curves 2 decades ago do not justify it now. And everyone was figuring it out back then, your opponent also had nothing. Now if I go and pick up SFV, I'll be playing against those people with years of experience in fighting games. And a video is a base, a start. I still need the muscle memory, the timings, understanding of the neutral game that only comes through play. And when the first dozen hours of play stink, that might be an inherent problem with the genre. I love RTS, I put in several hours of Starcraft 2 every week. But I'd admit that the genre as a whole is extremely offputting to beginners, requiring a large amount of skill and knowledge to even begin playing the game. The problem isn't being lazy and spoiled, it's being told that the game isn't supposed to be fun to start. If you play and enjoy fighting games, great. But don't call someone lazy for saying that they'd rather play a game that is fun as soon as they've figured out the controls
Turtlewax63 But its still true. Modern Gamers have gotten to soft in this game. Anything remotely challenging will rub people the wrong way in this day.
Cuphead has sold 300,000 units in a week, for an indie game. Hollow Knight has just under 500,000 though you could argue that only gets super hard in the late game. Same with Cave Story and it has over 800,000 sales on steam alone. Super Meat Boy has moved over 1,000,000 copies. I don't want to even think about the combined sales of the Soulsbourne games. The mass market is never going to like super hard games, but there is a very large niche which adores it. People are fine with challenging games, they just want a learning curve that doesn't require climbing gear to get past
Pinkerton I'm a 90's kid and I always had trouble. Why do you people always have to pick on the younger generation. So much insecurity with people who are all like "in my generation." I'm sure there are countless younger kids mastering these games ok. It comes down to a lot of factors and it isn't due to laziness. Not everyone values spending 30 hours of their time just to kind of master ONE character's moves in the training room.
"It's not hard you just suck" -every gamer every time anyone says any game is hard
There's also "you only dislike it because you suck at it"
+nemt and that's in most cases true. Some people can't enjoy a game if they can't play it properly.
+nemt There are two types of gamers, those who start bad, practice then become good and those wo start bad and complain about it. We aren't dumb, we actually put in the work so we know someone just sucks and is just crying out for attention.
+Pass_the_M
Not always, my friend. Sometimes the game is actually obtuse, and extremely unfriendly to new players. Sometimes the players start bad, practice and just aren't capable of becoming good no matter how hard they try. And sometimes, players legitimately need help when it comes to grasping how to play.
Shunning these people and just labelling them all as a bunch of crybabies does nothing but hurt fighting games as a whole. Plus I've seen way too much legitimate criticism shut down with an ignorant deflection of "lol git gud scrub".
'git gud'
I watched this video when I first started going to offline locals at the start of 2018. I went 0-2 most brackets but kept the grind going gradually improve lots of ups and downs but preserving has made me a strong person mentally outside of the games plus I tend to place pretty well at locals. If your new to these games and struggling dont give up keep putting in the work and watching your loses learn from your mistakes
the most difficult parts about fighting games is the mentality and the community being a dick to new players
the first yeah but the second... Nothing different from any other community. Is the average with any kind of community.
you probably just had bad luck and met more of the bad apples.
"There's a benefit to losing... You get to learn from your mistakes."
-Megamind
Most Deadest Pool of em All. Extremely underrated
So... how the fuck do I learn from my mistakes if I don't know what mistakes I did?
Sota Steelwing do it again until you know them
Sota Steelwing watch the replay if that game has that feature and find out since when you went fucked up
@@motif_3253 My mistake was stepping forward, and then watching as my opponent put me into an inescapable combo for a third of a minute.
There's a really ridiculous misunderstanding here during the final parts of this video. When Extra Credits, and the type of consumers their opinion reflects, say they want the game to teach them how to get good, they DON'T MEAN that they want the game to teach them how to beat professional players at tournaments. They mean that they want the game to teach them enough that they feel like they're making choices that affect the flow of the game against people (or AI) at their general skill level. They want the game to show them, at the very least, how not to button mash. And no, current fighting game tutorials don't do this. They show you the button inputs, and tell you to do the inputs correctly to beat the tutorial. That is NOT good enough. The game lacks a proper difficulty curve, and fails to reinforce the lessons it teaches, if this is all it does.
You're just doing the combo once, and then you can either go into a real game (even against an easy CPU) where all of your options are available and you really don't have much better of an idea of what to do than before, do the tutorial again/go into training mode in which now you're being asked to just mindlessly and repetitively press the onscreen buttons over and over/let the AI punch you while you try to learn how to block with no real sense of challenge or enjoyment, or you can just go back to button mashing.
And ideally the game should not stop at learning not to button mash/spam and blocking. A character's specific mechanics should at least be taught (THROUGH NORMAL PLAY) up to the level that the developer intended. You don't have teach the players weird tech that professional players discovered through grueling research. Most of that stuff is a consequence of systems interacting in ways developers actually might not have been able to fully foresee to begin with, and even when it isn't, is in fact at a level of skill that justifies players having to fight people well above their skill level to learn it. But what are some of the developer's intended combos? What types of moves link into other types of moves? When I get hit, do I have a response? What is this weird meter that kind of looks like a bunch of bullets that this one character has? What are a couple of useful ways to use that resource?
There should be a way for players to play a mode where just by playing and having fun over the course of trying to get through a series of challenges (such as a single player campaign with multiple "levels"), the player is slowly introduced to various mechanics and encouraged to learn these fundamental things in order to beat this mode. You have to be able to reduce the complexity of how the fight works down several notches in introductory missions, and slowly introduce the complexity back in. Maybe the first few fights the enemies only do normal punches, but later on they start adding in some low punches, and even later on start varying it up in the middle of a combo. By the end of the game they're doing full on mix ups and chaotically switching their types of attacks to try and make you miss the block. Does this get you to EVO? Fuck no. Getting to the end and learning all of that shit about blocking is barely making you competent. But it's one simple example of how a game's single player might help you get to a level where you feel you have some fucking AGENCY. That's what people are asking for.
Exactly. I also think that one of the reasons why most games are not doing well in the learning department is that teaching, in general, is extremely hard, so they don't bother.
ACommonHero2 who the fucks gonna read this bullshit fuk u
Anyone who actually cares to read it. He made some good points
@@lorancoondiddles1231 I am. And from the looks of it, at least 63 people other than me.
Hey alright nice 200 word essay amigo
Extra Credits:
"Fighting games should teach the player the fundamentals of getting good through gameplay."
Core A Gaming:
"No, if they do that, then the ones who learn through training against opponents won't feel as special."
Me:
"Wait, how is that an argument?"
Cora A Gaming:
"Moving on..."
Losing constantly sucks all the fun of out the game for me. Makes me not want to play no more.
I don't often comment but I'd like to throw my two cents in as a really shitty player. I love fighting games. I suck awfully at them but I still love to play them, and I think a middle ground does need to be met. Learning to take a loss, suck it up and move is extremely important, but some games need to also make a better effort at explaining *Why* you lost. it's all well and good to play until you "recognize" why you were losing, but when a large part of the reason is you were unfamiliar with concepts or tropes of the genre, it can't be an insurmountable obstacle. I still don't really understand what a "Roman cancel" is. I barely could grasp the implications of the burst move in Street fighter IV. those need to be explained better before new players can be expected for find out how to adapt to a situation at all.
hyp3r4ctive I feel that man. I’ve got over 3000 online matches for injustice. So MK and tekken were pretty easy to pickup, but recently I tried to get into Street fighter and I cannot for the life of me understand it. It doesn’t really explain your move list, how to execute them, nor does it tell you what the hell vtrigger is, so I’m back to what I would call “strategic mashing”.
You have a thorough understanding of why this genre is so fulfilling. The only additional comment I can make, is the fact that damn: no genre brings so much pride to its players, deservedly. In the end, all together, we fight alone. It's amazing. There's no one else to blame.
Also, we're indie AF-
+AmazingGamingChannel Your victory (& in your contrast defeat) is yours & yours alone. Not because of some perk, item, rank or stat build.
In fighting games its all down to your skill (a combination of some physical prowess, mental ability & emotional discipline). A round is like a challenge that requires problem-solving to overcome & not much else is as satisfying to the human brain as out-smarting your opponent.
+jay kj Very well-said. That is the essence of it.
+AmazingGamingChannel maybe not quite as indie as speedrunning since they still don't get that e-sports $$, but point made
+AmazingGamingChannel There is pride on defeating an equal to you: another human. But defeating something much superior to you... that's real fulfillment. Try, for example, ninja gaiden :P. It still can also be played against other people.
+jay kj The same happens in a lot of games even in team oriented ones or games that use items since items are part of the problem, the only difference bettween games with or without items is that in games without them you can't affect your character stats. (but it still has a defined ones that define your play)
for me, the most difficult thing in fighting games is keeping in mind that mindgames exist
I can't even count how many fighting game matches I've played without ever even *attempting* to bait or read anything
I just kinda wait for an opening while hitting the player's block to make him wanna do something and thats about as much mindgames as I ever do
It's the most abstract yet most advanced fundamental
the liquor store in this video is literally the liquor i grew up playing SF2! it's in Arleta on Van Nuys and Bartee.
and the video store across the street next to dominoes had SF rainbow edition... we would cross the street back and forth when either arcade would get full.
that's so crazy that it popped up in this video.
This is why Smash Bros is possibly the most unique fighting game out there. On the beginner level, there is basically a casual gameplay mode that anyone can enjoy because it doesn't require much skill to play. But higher up, Smash can be just as complicated as any other fighter requiring just as much skill to win.
+CookerLV Honestly I would argue that Melee is the most in-depth and complex fighting game ever created.
+themacattack671 The fact that we're still discovering new tech in a 15 year old game is astounding.
+themacattack671 idk about that but I'd definitely argue it's the most complex party game. #Kappa
+CookerLV beginner level? Wtf is that...u mean just like playing noobs? Smash is the hardest fighting game at higher levels it involves way more spacial coordination and vertical gameplay not to mention off edge gameplay
+TheGreatUtopiaCat He meant that beginner mode is playing Hyrule with items on. We know how deep the game goes.
The hardest thing about fighting games 2 me is putting in the actual work to get gud at the game. going into training mode by yourself and practicing combos sounds easy but if you don't have the mind set Or dedication to practice you'll never be gud and your going to be frustrated when you go to tourneys and lose
+Eric Nobles I'm with you dude. I love fighting games so much, winning, losing almost all of it. that salt after taking a hard L gets me mashing buttons to start the next match like never before. But I get no joy from training mode, I just cant get motivated to sit and drill combos. It's weird because i can do it for other games. rhythm games (GH,RB), time trials in racing games, some platformers i find myself doing a run back on tough levels to do it zero deaths or just a few sec quicker. But i cant stand training mode
+condoriano exactly! I love fighting games but training mode is such a turn off. I'm just not patient enough for it
I'm pretty decent in most games other MvC I can't with that series
***** but I know need to practice, I been forcing myself to for Smash and KoF
+Eric Nobles Perhaps start involving yourself in the community. Check out some Discord groups. Or delve into streams like Maximillian's channel. I'm sure he has a fan Discord channel where you can not only discuss strategies, but also acquire new training buddies. I understand how you feel, training mode is pretty much the same as locking yourself in a loony bin. It's maddening after a while.
The biggest barrier for me is simply not getting that feeling of satisfaction when I do win, even from a tough situation. It's one that no veteran I know has been able to give me advice on as of yet either, considering that's one of the biggest incentives to get people through difficult games.
You know what will help a lot? If new players don't get matched with people who are way above them, and all games have that same issue. I just bought SFV. I'm tired of the whif punish with 10 hit combo games. To decide if I can even play the game online because of my region, I went into ranked straight away, to decide if I should refund. I haven't played SF in 10 years! My first match? A guy playing a Bison who perfectly responds to everything I do and has combos I have watched recently, all executed perfectly. My ranking was somewhere in the 180k region, and his was in the 130k region, but both of us are somehow rookie ranked. What?
From my experience as a professional tutor, I've found persistence to be essential to learning anything but the lowest of hanging fruits. However, it is also possible to guide a student or player with a logical progression of difficulty (not necessarily linear) that will allow them to reach higher levels of competency more efficiently. Once a degree of competence is established, persistence comes much easier.
The line between hand-holding and guidance can be subtle, and it varies from individual to individual. I believe Extra Credit's main point was that with better guidance, players who would otherwise stop playing can attain some degree of competence. One may see this as coddling, but the end result is what is important. Expression of competence is rewarding. That psychological reward makes them want to play more. If more people can be made to reach a level of competence, the player-base increases, which hopefully creates better communities.
Edit: A quick addition, I do think there is something to be synthesized here. You are right that single-player tutorial is a poor replacement for multiplayer. There is likely a good discussion on the utility of a good matchmaking system and its effects on skill acquisition to be had.
TLDR; Brute-forcing skill acquisition is viable, but not optimal.
Hardest thing about fighting games is being on the right side of the screen :( lol
Thugitmcnugget Yooooo lmaoooo
Indeed, I'm so used to playing at the right side. It's weird to input from a left side since I wasn't used to it..
I'm better at playing left side than Right. If I'm on right my playstyle especially in dragon ball fighterz takes a hit. Thankfully I got pretty good at coming up with either side mixups but they still throw me off when the person jumps over me. Especially if there's anything more than a 3 frame delay. There is nothing more satisfying when you get a comeback that absolutely destroys your opponent.
get gud
Hahaha
The reason I myself never got into fighting games is because they are so complicated. Facing people without actually button mashing means getting killed in a timespan of 10 seconds without really knowing what is happening.(a bit of an exaggeration but you get the idea). Most if not all the people I faced online when I played an online game always seemed to know what they were doing so I stood no chance against them, it made me feel like there are no new people in the genre and everyone playing is a veteran.
I never understand what they did and why it was effective I pretty much learned nothing from the experiences. I've tried to get used to some characters by learning some combo's which is another beats in and off it's own which in my opinions games themselves do not teach you in the slightest.
It's not that I do not enjoy fighting games but it feels like to get good at them I pretty much need to go to school to learn a character and not get bodied by everyone. This in return makes me feel like to get any fun out of a fighting game, it should be all I play since casual play does not seem to be a thing in fighting games(in my experience). Everything I saw so far about fighting games is always talking about being competitive and playing in tournaments(which I'm 90% sure my area does not have) which again would mean a massive massive commitment.
TLDR: Gave the genre a chance but the sheer difficulty of getting into it pushed me away repeatedly.
It's is good if you find friend with same level who want fight with you.
Why Fighting Games Are Hard?
Because it takes more then clicking your left mouse button and be online.
Having the technical skills floor being as high as it is, to the point of some games either requiring that you literally only play that one game all the time and/or own a fightstick to make inputs easier, is also what holds a ton of people back. Why should they have to burn another $80 on a new controller or turn practice into a job just to get to the skill floor, let alone to be "competitive"? I play fighting games, I'm only OK at them, but at least I generally sort of know what I'm doing, but it's only because I started playing them in middle school and had a ton of free time to just grind away at learning how to play BlazBlue as my first back when CT came out. If I hadn't spent so much time back then and just tried to learn it now in my twenties, there's no way I'd get into them.
I get you ... I did learn the basics of Smash Bros. Wii U/3DS and Ultimate ... won some matches online ... but, in person? Got wupped. I just want to have fun with my mates like in the old days on the SNES ... I don't want to spend hours to learn not just moves but every tiny detail of the game AND try to figure out my opponent's strategy too ... or deal with the CPU cheating, although that was certainly a thing back in the 90s too.
Hey, cooking instant ramen is VERY gratifying!
Realinho Exactly
Almost as much as eating it
Especially when you put jus the right ammount of water XD💯
Someone gets me
Realinho yeah but burning your ramen a 100 times isnt worth it
I think EC has a bit more of a point here, the reason SFII did so well was because if you got bodied, the person who bodied you explain the mechanics to you, unlike online mode. Its annoying when you get destroyed and have no idea what you could have done. If the game taught you the situation in which you could parry everything would be much simpler
The hardest thing about fighting games is, easily, getting your friends to play fighting games.
I never realized how little time that was until you said a 32nd note at 150 bpm
Mortal Kombat 11 has the best tutorial ever. It even explains frames to beginners and has character specific tutorials.
MK11 has great tutorials,but ArcSystemWorks did it first with BlazBlue & Guilty Gear.
@@icheatinexam5606 ikr
Mk11 does have an amazing tutorial but it can be very broken at times and I wish it went over how to choose your options more in neutral and all that
Yes MK 11 shows the guts of the fighting game mechanics, but when it comes to character specific tutorial it feel a little short. What can I say I liked Street Fighter for the character knowledge and linking combos.
UltimaFortuna sorry lad but guilty gear and Undernight in birth has superior tutorials and explains Almost everything except frame data
Still coming back to this masterpiece of a video !
It has a lot in common with why people, especially as they get older, give up on learning an instrument. There's a big stretch initially where you aren't good enough to do anything enjoyable, and don't have the preexisting musical education to know how to formulate simple but nice sounding sequences. it's really miserable grinding away at something that isn't rewarding in the least with the anticipation of someday being able to play something even okay sounding.
"This mentality of 'new game companies better help us get good, or you won't get as many sales' fails to understand that getting to high level play is up to the player, not the game companies."
The explosive reemergence of the roguelike market would beg to differ. Design (in general, everywhere) isn't about lowering the ceiling, it's about raising the floor. You can't avoid falling while skating, but you can wear protective equipment and choose where you skate. Fighting games should INCENTIVIZE players to play multiplayer, but the idea that they're anywhere near meeting players halfway on the information exchange is laughable.
Also, pointing prospective fighting game designers to Capcom's financial success with an already established brand is meaningless. "Just think, with hundreds of millions of dollars in development and marketing, and a name synonymous with fighting games, you too can match their profits!"
I know it sounds like I just came here to rag on your video (I didn't, I've watched and enjoyed quite a lot of your library), but this is kind of a high level player misunderstanding that you see in a lot of genres. No, it's not the game companies' job to make you good at the game (and no amount of mechanical innovation on their part can do that, anyway), but it IS their job to make you WANT to be good at the game, and most fighting games are atrocious at this.
Jesus christ the ending of this video inspired me to go out and play some ranked Injustice 2, and face the result no matter what it was. Now I feel like dying fuck me
How can learn from my mistakes by constantly losing if I never know what I’m doing
Only those who can tame their ego get good. By looking at what you did wrong without emotions you find the best and most logical way to go.
Chilean Guanaco well said
I agree. Enjoy your losses. You need to train with better people to become better otherwise you will plateau. The fun part is figuring out how to beat someone better than you.
Chilean Guanaco real shit. you can apply that anywhere in life
words of a veteran gamer respect
Chilean Guanaco i didnt know alpacas played sf4 o:
I feel like the "you get better by playing against people better than you" is a half truth.
You get better from playing the game with the desire to get better. Whether that be putting time in a training map with a sandbag to practice combos, against a cpu to practice against a moving target, or against a real opponent to practice your reads.
Playing against an opponent that is much better than you rarely results in getting better.
This is usually a fallacy i hear repeated by smurfing people who just want an excuse to play against low ranked players.
There's a bit of a gap between 'a better player' and someone who can kick your ass into the dirt without a sweat. I think fighting someone who knows a bit more than you gives you a chance to see what you could be doing differently. But yeah, I agree that if your opponent is so far out of your league that you can't even decipher what he's doing, then you ain't gonna learn shit.
I think it's best when you play against/with a variety of people. You can learn behavior from better people, or just people with a different playstyle. You can see how things actually work in a competitive environment, or why certain things aren't that good even though they seemed good at first glance, when you play against better people. Also worse players than you are useful partners (as Ramsey Dewey has put it: You need to spar with wimps), because with them you can practice certain moves and combinations.
Nah it depends on how much better they are. It teaches how to act under pressure. Only fighting cpus teaches bad habits because a CPU doesn't fight like a human. Fight low-skill opponents for learning but fight higher-skill opponents for the experience of applying what you learned. Watch your replays and watch pro matches look at what you did wrong and look at what they did wrong. Also find people who love the game enough to teach you stuff
You get better by playing people of the same skill level in my opinion
Edit: I mean slightly better but don’t play against people who will clap you
You should think of it in weight lifting terms. You need to lift weight that you can handle, but still struggle with. Once you don't struggle with that weight anymore you move on. Occasionally you need to max out. See what the heaviest weight you can lift right now is to gauge where you are. Find out how strong you are at your best, then plan your training with that limit in mind. Repeat until your at the desired strength. Sometimes your strength will plateau, but you gotta keep grinding. Eventually you'll rise above plateau. Now just replace everything I said with fighting game terminology.
Practice against bots til the bots are too easy, then play casual online matches. Occasionally in these casual matches you'll run into someone who's far above you in skill, and then you see where your limits are. Once you're winning really often in casual, move on to ranked.
Super smash actually simplified it pretty well
You can enjoy it whether you’re a pro gamer or a casual like me who just want to play it as a party game from time to time
Easy to learn, hard to master
I think that fighting games would really benefit from having deep game play like smash manages to do without the insanely hard inputs or 30 plus button combos.
As it stands I literally can't play most fighting games with any sense of skill no matter how many hours I practice because they all seem to have overly complicated button inputs to do basic things and or the 30 plus button combo shenanigans.
Just wish playing a fighting game didn't make me want to Kermit suicide after getting absolutely bodied over and over and over again by anyone just above button mashing.
@@chasefox3100 yup i pretty much i agree
i bought tekken 7 and played for like 5 hours and got bored
cuz i had to memorize tonnes of combos
however moves and comboes in smash are designed do naturally that even a day 1 gamer can perform alot of them
personally, trials in fighting games really help me. when it forces me to do a puzzle, which revolves around timing and preforming certain inputs, i get better as i learn to do these things better and faster. once i have that knowledge, i can use that knowledge to contribute that to when i try to experiment in a training mode
To me, it feels like this is one of those things like writing or drawing. Fighting games involves a bit of suffering through studying and practice if you want to feel satisfied doing it.
Good comparison
people just wana be good with out practice or training
+bennymountain1
*True. But maybe there has to be a way to have fun while not good yet?*
The process to being _good_ is never subjectively fun. It takes a lot of lab work, combing through resources and making sure you do enough repetitions to get that idea in your head when you do play. The idea of all this is that when shit DOES go south, your brain doesn't go in panic mode. You accept the scenario and you through all the practice and repetitions, you use your best judgment to get out of the situation.
In MOBAS its even worse since you can be as "helpful" as you can but if the weakest link feeds the other team through their coordination, it doesn't matter how good you can be. At least in fighting games, believe it or not your work ethic speaks for the goals you strive and the results you attain.
bennymountain1
*are all things people don't look for in entertainment*
Which is why fighting games are pretty niche because the fact you have people who willingly do those activities to be able to get better at playing a fighting game means it provides them entertainment, to an extent. A lot of hobbies also doesn't call for constant self evaluation and self improvement to attain goals.
Besides there is no competitive spirit in learning how to play guitar. You can do it on your own pace and not have someone reinforce you at how sucky you are in the beginning. The mentality is just different.
+bennymountain1 In MOBAs you can get chain-stunned or bursted down by 2-3 spells in seconds, which is an equally hopeless feeling.
Hell when you're new in a MOBA you're getting ganked all game long because you don't know jack about positioning yet.
So, lousy analogy.
That's something else. It's true, but unrelated to the other point.
+Yui Karica Oh gee star craft is nothing but learning build order and muscle memory, easiest competitive game ever. See how your analogy is bad? Also as someone who has 1500 hours in dota 2 I strongly disagree; fighting games are harder as you need to perfect your execution, the match up knowledge and reading your opponent. In Mobas you just need to learn the characters and some strategies but often you can blame your team mates; a fighting game you have no one to blame but yourself
Honestly, trial modes are the best thing for me. Learning BnBs while making it fun and the game telling me good job helps so much. I learned how to main Mila in guilty gear because of trials.
I'm with Extra Credits here, the game should teach you every important concept, if you need to go to read a guide or watch videos to understand the basic mechanics, that means the developers are not doing right with the tutorial and single player mode. The fact SF2 on arcade sold billions without any tutorial or training mode doesn't mean modern fighting games should follow the same design philosophy.
he is not saying it shouldnt but that at the end of the day you still have to actually play and end getting bodie until those things they teachd to you gets ingraned into your mind and hands.
You can have the concept in your head all you want but it just doesnt change the fact that until you actually have a feeling at how to do those things right you WILL get bodied.
I hope if you seriously believe this you either game UNI or Thems Fighting Herds a shot or you don't play any multiplayer game.
I love your videos dude. As someone who enjoyed fighting games before, this channel has made me appreciate them in an entirely new way.
Thanks for watching!
I definitely agree with you.
Have you watched the movie real steel? Real steel sorta reflects how new players approach fighting games.
I have bad timing and rhyme in fighting game.
rhyme? do you mean rhythm?