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Being fair the safest thing he could do is send him far away from the main cast. Now there’s a chance he will live. And Tormund would be a good owner...as long as he doesn’t try getting freaky with Ghost 😱😱🤣😂🤪
@@blissfulbarbie It may sound cruel, but if you're going to leave an animal with someone else, it's probably for the best you don't say goodbye. It would just make it harder on Ghost. No point in making the animal even more attached to Jon the moment they say goodbye. But yeah, I felt sad too.
@@eternalposer1955 Dany knew that Jon would have married her. But she's a selfish and horrible person who doesn't even want to share power which rightful belongs to her own nephew.
It has been all about cowcks and bawlls now since Tyrion's character(his dialogue precisely) got butchered. It's been like this since season 5 or 6... Fuck D&D
@@Vball-Vidz The show never touched on the psychic connections between the Stark siblings and their direwolves, so Jon barely looking Ghost in the eyes for two seconds made their farewell look a lot colder than it probably was.
Luis Rosa the show isn’t a book, where it’ll tell you what the characters are thinking. So how the hell are they going to touch on it save for a couple of obvious things were you can tell a limit psychic connection was done.
@@emadbu5 He should be, and then Cersei should be quick enough to counter that Qyburn told Tyrion during their talk to appeal to his sense of family (it is known he adored Myrcella and Tommen)
36:50 I completely agree with Chris in that this is Dany's character right now. I will completely understand if she does decide to do this. Not condoning it, just understand. First off, I don't like Dany that much, haven't for the past two seasons, but I do find her character fascinating. To me Dany's biggest fault is how she handles two characteristics of hers: she has the naivety of Jon (the good heart), but a certain cruelness close to Cersei (Mad King/Queen). She's naive in that she does not play the game of thrones that well, understandable since she hasn't had to that much until she got to Westeros. Also, she has a temper and a cruelness about her that does/will not favor well with the people, on top of the fact that she's in Westeros where people do not view her family in a good light. Now you can argue that every ruler needs both of these qualities. But I think what hurts Dany is her timing. She picks the wrong times to be cruel and not to be. Actually....that's a pretty interesting antagonist if I do say so myself, assuming that is the direction they are going in. Also, Jon is not a good choice either. Like Dany he makes horrible decisions, and that is his character.
I agree. Neither Jon nor Daenarys will be good leaders. Jon will make naive decisions because of his good heart and daenarys would not get the people's support. I'm not a fan of Sansa but she will be a better leader than those 2. They might as well destroy the iron throne, and end the whole 1 ruler for seven kingdoms thing. Maybe independent lands might work best for everyone.
That is why the show will probably end with a complete dissolution of the Iron Throne, Monarchy and seven kingdoms much like the Holy Roman Empire, which dissolved and united each German kingdom into one nation, except, Democracy will be the system (not another absolute monarchy). GRRM actually dislikes monarchies and is in favor of democracy.
Thank you! I don't agree with her being an antagonist. She is more of a grey character - one dwindling between Jon and Cersei. Also considering they are two episodes left, if they do go in that direction it will be very half baked and shallow (writing has been a huge deservice). But unlike writers who are admant to show that Jon is better ruler, he is no good. He is naive and would make terrible political decisions.
Me too I don't know why I keep on coming back to UA-cam to watch these videos knowing full well that I'll see that Dragon died again it's pure torture to me
Shannon Balogh i feel you...i don’t even know why they want her to turn so mad now,they could have handled the NK an Cersei arc way better, i get that the ending will stick with Martin plan of making it bittersweet,but fuck me this is so forced and depressing as hell
well she got mad because qyburn thought ahead and had already upgraded their civilization tree to access manufacturing of the industrial age during the medieval age in order to mass produce those scorpions. they probably had a lot of builders just waiting too. not to mention euron definitly got that modern era X15 scope. i'd rage too
Andrea Andrea Shes mad because shes losing everything, her army, her claim to the throne, her dragons and now her best friend. I’d be mad as hell too if everything and everyone I loved and worked for was slipping away from me.
Jency Victor but i still support her, i don’t care how hard they’ll try to make me dislike her,and i share this kind of madness considering what she’s been through, i just can’t stand that they’re making her mad in such a rush because they couldn’t handle the all NK arc better and now they need another bad guy to settle things
17:38 Yes, but Dany's goal was to break the wheel. The whole point is that playing the game of thrones will only perpetuate it. Jon said it best: "But if you use them to melt castles and burn cities, you're not different...you're just more of the same. " Dany's character arc seems to transitioning into tragedy as her darker nature takes over. The only person not playing the game is Jon Snow. Also it becomes very bland storytelling in hindsight if Dany wins. Basically, GoT is a story following a bunch of lords squabbling over Westeros whose drama is meaningless because Dany rises to power in the distance and then comes over and takes the throne. At the end of the day Daenarys didn't grow up in Westeros. This episode highlights that more than previous did. These aren't her people anymore. They don't know her and she doesn't know them. They've been at the mercy of kings, queens and lords who have grabbed ever hungrily for the throne. The moment Daenarys sacrifices the people to take the throne she becomes just another conniving ruler in the game of thrones. Another mad king. Another Cercei. Westeros will only change for the better when someone who doesn't play the game and can unite the people takes the throne. Daenarys may yet merit the Throne but it depends on her decision next episode. Side Note: Comparing Jon Snow to Robert Baratheon is comparing apples to oranges. Robert was a spoiled first born son. Robert doesn't have Jon's morality and devotion to duty.
Cant compare Robert and Jon . Robert was irresponsible he was the oldest heir for his Castle before he became King. Jon was raised like he would never attain anything. Jon never wanted leadership roles and it was still given to him , he is way more responsible than Robert ever was. Robert only loved fighting , and was bored on the throne because of it. Jon would prefer to keep peace than fight all the time , and will only fight if necessary.
Are you sure? Jon joined the Night’s Watch because he felt he had no purpose other than to fight others. He then wanted to go fight in his brothers war. He has been in a fight almost all of his life, and now he wants to go fight for Dany instead of remaining in Winterfell with his real Family. I think he would be equally as bored as Robert on the throne, as ruling as a political leader isn’t really Jon’s strong-suit.
@@Redfield982 Hmm I don't really see that as ruthless that's just obeying the law and passing the sentence like Ned. Ruthless is sacrificing and even executing a few of your men to defeat your enemy. Or allowing your people to get cornered so you can sneak behind the enemy and deal a decisive blow. Or killing a pregnant woman and her family at a wedding to protect your family's lagacy. Or hanging every person who ever treated someone like a piece of property to end slavery. and so on. I could be wrong but I don't think Jon could ever do any of that, he's just too good for the IT.
@@BhBc8f8 Robert was mostly Ruthless during his Time on the throne because alot of the people in the kingdom according to his own words during season 1 still called him Usurper. since Jon has been on this path that actually led to him being pretty much like his biological father was as the future ruler of westeros, And him being the successor of the true crowned prince, also having the North, Vale, The Riverlands(through family) ,and wildlings backing him he wouldnt have much of an issue maintaining peace in his lifetimem
Be grateful if Jon had attempted to touch Ghost he might have imploded but being sent to live offscreen with Tormund is a good end. He can live a good life and come back if he wishes since there is no wall!
but nobody is talking about Jon being a snitch too, Dany told him not to tell anyone and yeah bran told them but he brought it up, he couldve just stfu. So shes a snitch but not him?
22:58 Awww, I feel bad for Marketa. She is clearly invested in Dany. IMO the person who enforces her will through dragons is the LAST person who should have unlimited power. I think that is what GRRM is trying to say as well. Did no one in the Normies see this coming? Also Jon would have a better claim to the throne even if he were a woman. Also why does Sansa have to fight in order to have credibility? Fighting and ruling are totally different skill set. I think this point is obvious as well.
ej Yea I can see you point but I have to admit that Jon probably won’t be a good king. Let me show you a couple comments a posted I don’t get why people think that Jon can be a good king. He too much like Ned they both have no idea how to play the game how to play politics or how to rule. Hell Jon was killed for being to honorable at the nights watch. How the hell is he gonna rule over 7 kingdoms when he couldn’t lead a small military order without getting betrayed. He a terrible judge of character. He always trust the wrong people. Telling sansa just shows that he isn’t able to read people. Anyone with any sense of how to play the game would have known that she wouldn’t keep that secret.He can’t control his own Sister how will he control an whole kingdom. I love his character a lot but he only respected in the north not though out the 7 kingdoms While I sure Dany is gonna go mad for plot reasons she not really going mad yet. She was right that if Jon told his family about his birth it gonna come back to bite them. She is right about people conspiring against her. She just lost many people close to her which would make most people a little angry 😡. And she is right that somehow she has to kill Cersei at some point. Consuming all this I don’t really see her as going crazy as much as cracking under a lot of stress
@@massmedia7158 you are wrong. He did quite good as lord commander considering he let the wildlings through the wall, which nobody before ever has done. Achieving something nobody has ever done before already makes you good. He had nobody to cover his back then, as Sam fucked off to Old Town. As King he would have Davos or Varys or Sansa even to fend off the snakes.
@@massmedia7158 I don't think Jon would be a great king - I'm just replying to the Normie's accusation of misogyny. Jon, no matter his gender, no matter Dany's gender, has the better claim. That's all. Also, if he does end up on the throne, it looks like Sansa will be a powerful force behind it. He's not gonna be "controlling" her. Also about Sansa breaking her oath - I have no problems with it if her aim is Northern independence and the safety her House. Jon on the throne = safety of her House (a de facto co-regency). So she broke a promise, boohoo. She's living in a dangerous world with high stakes. She's not yet Littlefinger, but if she wants to achieve her goals, she's gonna have to do some messed up stuff (not be like Ned). I don't have problems with that.
@@iliboxic7586 its actuelly the opposit, she never been more strong than when she was seeking power (dorthrakis, unsillied,3 dragons) and now she's helping other, she's loosing everything. u can have your point of view, but here, there's no debate. She started to loose everthing when she started to help jon,
I've always liked Varys, but with that scene he became one of my favorites. He may be sneaky and not 100% trustworthy, but thats because he has no real political ties, he just acts in the best interest of the people, not the 1%,
@@antoinebenati8375 That's STUPID AF HE'S A FUCKING FLIP-FLOPER the worst of all, if he thinks he always sees for the realm HE SHOULD BE KING THEN and GUESS WHAT the fucking twat is just an opportunist spider always trying to save his neck just like Littlefinger, instead of flip-floping so much he should try to aid the King he's supposed serving instead of just nit-picking rulers and betraying them like the fucking disgusting insect he is.
Marketa says that there is only one way to do this, but that is not true. Another option is for Dany to no be so power hungry, and simply not try to take Kings Landing right now. Why is that not an option? Sansa even told her that she should allow her men and dragons to rest and heal their wounds. And Dany did not fight "Jons war". She fought to help save the kingdoms that she says are hers by right. How is that Jons war? Also, get it right-- Jon would be the rightful heir to the throne even if he were a female, or if he and Dany were both men. He's the rightful heir because he is Rhaegars son, and the line of succession goes through Rhaegars line until his line has not further successors. That's how succession works. And the reason that people like Jon more, which they've said out loud in the episodes, is due to him being a reluctant leader who doesn't scream every episode about his claim to a throne. He doesn't want or ask for power, yet he takes these positions when people put him in the position as a duty he has to those people to help them.
Joshua F I do think that job is a truly selfless ruler but I not sure he be a good king let me repost a comment I already made to say why I don’t get why people think that Jon can be a good king. He too much like Ned they both have no idea how to play the game how to play politics or how to rule. Hell Jon was killed for being to honorable at the nights watch. How the hell is he gonna rule over 7 kingdoms when he couldn’t lead a small military order without getting betrayed. He a terrible judge of character. He always trust the wrong people. Telling sansa just shows that he isn’t able to read people. Anyone with any sense of how to play the game would have known that she wouldn’t keep that secret.He can’t control his own Sister how will he control an whole kingdom. I love his character a lot but he only respected in the north not though out the 7 kingdoms Also I feel that Danny not really going mad as much as she she cracking from pressure. Here another comment I made to explain that While I sure Dany is gonna go mad for plot reasons she not really going mad yet. She was right that if Jon told his family about his birth it gonna come back to bite them. She is right about people conspiring against her. She just lost many people close to her which would make most people a little angry 😡. And she is right that somehow she has to kill Cersei at some point. Consuming all this I don’t really see her as going crazy as much as cracking under a lot of stress
@@massmedia7158 not being good at scheming is really far down my "things that makes you a bad king" list. Besides, as a king he'll have Varys for that.
@@massmedia7158 Or she could just let go of iron throne. She knows jon has better claim then why isnt she stepping down?? He is your brother's son for god's sake!! The righful king even if he doesnt want it. Not a one single time there was a hint of little sense in her while taking to jon!! "I AM THE ONE WHO WILL SIT ON IRON THRONE" That fucking arrogance right there!! Instead asking jon to keep quiet she could hv said.."You r the righful king so You sit on throne be the king and i'll be your queen and we ll rule together make world a better place for people" That would hv solved all problems especially sansa's bitch ass!! You see the problems in her not saying any of that?? Not even wanting to share throne even with a guy she is in "LOVE" with!! Her stupid decisions and arrogance got her dragon killed... Or all of these is just a sloppy writing!!!
For the girls who said that Sansa didn't do anything in the crypts, there was a deleted scene that was shown during the Game Revealed clip where Sansa & Tyrion were killing wights. It's just unfortunate that the showrunners decided to cut that scene.
@@homunculus7 - Angela G is correct! It was nevertheless IMPLIED. Why else would Sansa and Tyrion come out of hiding with knives in their hands if not to fight wights??
If only you guys had someone who could raise dragons from the dead and make it invincible to scorpion bolts and could then set said raised dragon on the capital ... if only
I really don't think armor will mean anything against those weapons. Aren't dragon scales stronger than any armor already? Isn't that why weapons as powerful as the scorpions are needed in the first place?
@@ItsXetren that'll give some level of protection. Drogon will be in full armor. Otherwise Euron wouldn't have gave that shocking look at the end of ep5 trailer
Jon snow is nothing like Robert Baratheon though. Robert was a depressed man with PTSD. Jon is a merciful ruler who will listen to his advisors and inspire the people
Corey Burkeen I do agree that comparing Jon to Robert is unfair. I don’t think he be a good king though. Let me repost a comment I made on that subject I don’t get why people think that Jon can be a good king. He too much like Ned they both have no idea how to play the game how to play politics or how to rule. Hell Jon was killed for being to honorable at the nights watch. How the hell is he gonna rule over 7 kingdoms when he couldn’t lead a small military order without getting betrayed. He a terrible judge of character. He always trust the wrong people. Telling sansa just shows that he isn’t able to read people. Anyone with any sense of how to play the game would have known that she wouldn’t keep that secret.He can’t control his own Sister how will he control an whole kingdom. I love his character a lot but he only respected in the north not though out the 7 kingdoms
Robert did not suffer from PTSD. Robert lives and breaths war. The whole reason why he became fat is because he ushered in an era of peace. An era where people like him were no longer needed.
@John Something Yep. Even Lyanna Stark knew Robert "would not keep to one bed" since she knows about his bastard in the eryie even before they were promised to each other. Jon would never father a bastard. He knows how much that would suck for his child.
@@thomaschristopherwhite9043 - Yeah, that's why it doesn't make much sense that he was sleeping with Dany. Honorable Jon would have refused to have such relationship without a marriage (it was different with Ygritte, beacuse the wildlings have other rules about that). And that's also why Brienne would have been very proud to be a virgin. In those times it wasn't supposed to be a shame, but an honor. She was an unmarried woman, so she hadn't slept around with anyone. I mean, that's what is in tune with her character. I don't see why they are pushing our modern lifestyle in characters which belong to a different mindset (of course Tormund would be looking for a woman, and a lot of the other people, but not Westerosi characters who are renown for their honor). All those Northern women offering themselves to men in the feast of Winterfell would have been very dishonorable (Podrick is supposed to be a squire who wants to become an honorable Knight), and Sansa (as the Lady of Winterfell) would have been trying to avoid that situation in a feast hosted by her. (It's different if it had happened in a brothel, but they were in the Main Hall of Winterfell).
Sansa wasn't judging Daenerys because of her fathers past, but because she refused to give them any confirmation on the status of the North after she takes the Iron Throne. The Starks have suffered so much because of that throne. Sansa's grandfather, uncle, father, aunty, mother and two brothers were killed because of politics and she's afraid the honourable Jon will be next. The North dont want to be governed by a far away monarch. I don't think anyone blames Daenerys for all the grief and pain she's feeling, but her family's history of mental illness and her dragon makes her very dangerous. Lastly, I just want to say that Rhaegal dying was Daenerys fault. She can't be blamed for Vyserion...but how could she not see Euron's army from the sky? Why did they think a Queen inside a protected castle and 50k+ soldiers would somehow surrender? They should've used the meeting as a distraction for a raid party to enter King's Landing and destroy the huge Crossbows - saving Misande in the process.
Ahmed Jama I don’t think she expected them to surrender, but it was the better thing to do to give them the opportunity. Unlike everyone in the comment section, I honestly hope Daenerys just storms in, fire blasting. Innocents die in war, that’s what it’s been like since the beginning. Yeah, I can’t deny that she’s become power hungry, but can you blame her? Since she ate that heart, she changed. Her goal has been the iron throne for the longest time now, and now people are angry that she’s going to do one horrible thing (like one of the Normies stated) for, in her eyes, the greater good? To save millions over a few thousand? Cersei already fills the roll of the mad Queen, Daenerys’ anger is justified. While her actions may be brutal and terrible, they make sense for her role.
32:45 I have to disagree with marketa and navi. And I'm happy Suraj and Pat defended Sansa. They're right. Sansa doesn't have to fight to be a worthy ruler. Dany doesn't fight either she just charges in with her dragons. Sansa is smart and actually knows how to play the game, she was the only one who actually asked the right questions and thought about the little important stuff(how to feed the armies, etc.). That's what a ruler does. Just because you're good fighter doesn't mean you're a good ruler, example: Robert Baratheon. And also Sansa did defend the people int the crypts together with tyrion, they just cut that out.
I agree with almost everything you say besides the crypts part. However I have to say that I don’t get Sana’a goal. She a smart person so she had to realize Jon bending the knee was the easiest way to get her army to back them up against the night king. She knows that her dad got kill for being too honorable so why does she want Jon to be king. He too honorable for his own good as well and will get eaten Alive as king. Besides that all that talk for taking care of family kind of feels empty considering that she is driving a wedge between Jon and the women he loves. That really crappie especially when you realize that little finger did the same with her mother and aunt. I just don’t get what she trying to do. What is she trying to gain by telling the dwarf (can’t spell name too lazy to go look) about Jon true parents. If you got an answer I would be willing to listen but I can’t figure it out. Ps you are correct about fighting ability having no effect on how good of a ruler you are 👍
@@hdhdhedhdh986 Many things happen off screen and are still canons. What do we see on the screen: -Sansa take out her dagger, Tyrion take out his, they look at each other and then get up. -Tyrion & Sansa making their way through the crypt, finding Varys and children and then continuing to move on. -Tyrion and Sansa alone face to wights' corpses when the battle is over, then the women and the children who join them. What does that mean? They went out trying to kill wights. We don't know if they really killed them but we know at least they tried. Now the cut scene does allow us to understand that they have killed some wights. Even if we decide to not take it as a cannon, the idea is already there that they standed up against the threat. That's all.
My thoughts exactly! And Sansa and the North has a lot to gain if Jon became King. Aside from being half Stark, Jon understands the North and its ways. Furthermore, Jon as King would permanently bring the North into the fold, and Sansa will be certain that the ruler from the Iron Throne would not antagonize the Starks. Jon also has something in him that makes people follow him, like Rhaegar. I don't like Jon that much, though, but if it meant permanent security for the North and a mentall-stable ruler, albeit stupid and reckless, I'd root for him as well.
Marketa is giving Daenerys way to much credit. When did Daenerys prove to be good ruler? She is a conqueror and people in Essos admired her because she ended slavery.
Ending slavery is a huge thing, at least for me it was, that's what made me love her character even more. Maybe not for some others but for me that shit was amazing
Exactly my words. As we could have seen this season she doesn't really care if the people get something to eat, if her soldiers are able to fight or even if she kills innocent people. People are following her because most of them are scared of her. But she never really got the North - because people there are not afraid, they are great warriors - that really proves something, doesn't it?
So fucking dumb lmao.... sansa is literally Littlefinger + Cersei 2.0 Do they fight fuck no she is a politician she is the wildcard she’s gonna do something... The way the 2 girls are coming st sansa is so fucking dumb... We all know dany has become power hungry for the throne and we all know this isn’t good. Anyone who says I’m the queen isn’t the queen.. this is why jon will get it or someone else
"Cersei, your enemies have stupidly approached within range of our giant crossbows and with one volley we can wipe all of them out, end this war, and the iron throne will be yours forever." Cersei: "Behead her personal assistant."
@@ChainsGone2012 With the last dragon gone, all her top advisors and Danny herself being dead would put an end to this war quickly and Cersei could easily go down to safety, by the time the other forces would ever arrive there.
Daenarys is no longer an ideal ruler. The whole point of the Slavers Bay was her making moral concession to be an effective ruler. There was some point in Mereen where she was, but that time is over probably after killing the leader of the slaves. Her ideology REEKS of tyranny. Especially after hearing her saying it was her "destiny" to rule the 7 Kingdoms. She no longer has the best interests of the common people at heart. The second she brings dragons to the Red Keep and murders innocents to take the throne she is no longer capable of "breaking the Wheel" shes' just more of the same as Jon said. Jon is a way better option. You can say that he is like Robert Baratheon, but that simply isn't true. Robert was fundamentally disinterested in ruling, but wanted the throne anyways, Jon is disillusioned with ruling and DOESN'T WANT POWER. He's an effective leader, he's a war hero and like Varys said being a man and having the stronger claim (Son of the Prince vs Sister of the Prince) makes him a more favorable option to the lords of Westeros. That's why Jon is good as dead, because he stands in the way of Dany the Tyrannical. Sansa is right not to trust her shes' learned the political game while Jon hasn't and is far too idealistic.
MrMeddyman Jon is an idiot. He is very heroic and draws people to him and whatnot. He has the better claim and would be loved more by the people. However he does not make good decisions. He will end up just like Ned if he ends up ruling. The game would eat him up.
@@krisbacon3495 lol, exactly. I don't know how the show is gonna unfold, but Dany's ideas are definitely fucked up right now (and they've been for quite a while actually)
@@thesellick9011 I dont understand how the five kings, Robert, and jon get people killed and sacrifice them left and right but Dany struggles to do that and finally decides not to do it and it makes her mad lol
@@thesellick9011 Relax keyboard warrior. Just cause someone has a different opinion to you doesn't mean you need to be all pissy about it. I have hated Danny for the last 3 seasons and want her gone. If you like Danny and want to see her on the Iron Throne then that's fine, that's your wish and opinion but doesn't mean everyone else who doesn't share it is 'stupid'.
You have to feel for Dany though. Her campaign in Westeros has been a disaster, through no fault of her own. She lost half her army, half her allies, two of her children, and her legitimacy to the throne ever since she set foot on Westeros. She's not well-received despite doing her best for the people. The two closest people to her are gone. From her perspective, this might not have happened if she had just "burned them all". Tyrion was right in S5. Maybe she should have just stayed in Meereen. What I disagree with Marketa's argument though is how she keeps putting a pro-female spin on Dany. Gender politics are not what either D&D or GRRM are trying to dispute with the story.
There's not actually that many mad Targaryens. Out of over 100 only 6 or 7 were mad. A lot through circumstances and some were questionably mad. E.g. all one did was dance naked.
Yeah but D&D really *needed* to go down THAT road with one of their only powerful female characters, I mean. We all know the men are more level-headed, that's the whole point of this episode!
Nora Girl have you heard of this female character who is an op badass assassin who saved all of humanity? also another female character who beat the hound in hand to hand combat and is one of the most strong and honorable characters in the show? they have a fair few powerful female characters lmao
Daenerys views power as her right and her pleasure, whether she is freeing people or avenging people. She can also be very impulsive. John views power as a responsibility and only a responsibility.
@Nora Girl Daenerys..? Powerful female character? Daenerys has been a self-entitled, whiny bitch since the start. Brienne, Arya, Ygritte, those are some actually strong female characters. Daenerys is just an overgrown child who had immense luck and 3 dragons.
Also, Dani went up North and fought "their war" as much for herself as for them. If the Night King was not defeated, then there would be no kingdom to rule.
Did Danny have a choice? You act as if Danny wanted to rule over an undead Westeros, the only time Danny agreed to fight the white walker was when she realized she had no choice and to conquer Westeros she would first have to conquer the white walkers. Before she saw the white walkers in person up north when she saved Jon, she wanted Jon to grab one not just to convince Cersei, but also to see it for herself. She even mentioned this. Once she saw they were real, she was saddened as her plans to take Kings Landing had to be put on hold since the real threat to her future throne was the Night King. Face it, she did it for herself. it wasn't "Their War" its more her war than anyone's.
homunculus7 I think the ‘honor’ Of House Stark died at the Red Wedding. Ned was honorable- he was killed for it. Robb and Catelyn trusted the Frey’s to be honorable when it came to the guest rights- it got them killed. Sansa is still alive bc she’s smart. And besides she swore she wouldn’t tell what Jon told her, he didn’t tell her anything Bran did. It doesn’t make her a “snake” and House Stark isn’t dead, not with the four of them still left- she’s trying to ensure they stay that way.
@@homunculus7 how is protecting your family by sharing who they are a bad thing? Dany keeps stating who she is and is willing to burn innocent people and everyone else keeps murdering innocent people. Starks are literally the only good house left who think about innocent people and protect their own
Sansa actually did fight, they cut the scene out. Sorry I get triggered when people insult her. Also fighting doesn’t make you a good ruler, Robert was an amazing fighter who shitted on the realm. Also Arya saved the day. Also, regarding Jon not wanting the throne, another person who didn’t want the throne was Elizabeth 1st. She never expected to be on the throne, she was last in line, but when her sister died she was placed on the throne that wasn’t supposed to be hers and look what progress she made to England in her rule(also she is a women, I said that for Marketa). Varys is loyal to the realm because he use to be one of those people, he was at the bottom and saw how the lords and rulers didn’t give a fuck about the smaller people, so if he sees a ruler who puts their agenda above the good of the people he’ll pick a person he thinks cares about them(aka Jon who use to be at the bottom). I love you Marketa and Navi but Jon/Sansa would make a better Queen. Last point Missandei dying doesn’t mean Dany can burn innocent people(women/children/elderly).
I think it's pretty ridiculous to push the whole 'Dany can't cause any casualties in this war!!! Mad Queeeen' rhetoric. What war doesn't result in innocents killed? Jon and Rob both beheaded and executed 'innocents'. Ned and Robert participated in many wars that resulted in the deaths of hundreds - and yet they're not shat on nearly as much as Dany for wanting to take out a literal mad queen who already burned down an entire Sept.
Good Lord, Marketa went full on Dany stan after the episode. The WRITERS OF THE SHOW are telling you that Dany isn't in this for the good of the realm. They've shown that Dany wants the power too badly at this point and it's not for some honorable reason like helping people. Dany has stated countless times that she is the rightful ruler of these strangers because she has magic blood and dragons. And there is nothing to point to showing that Dany would be a great ruler. She is a great CONQUEROR (because dragons), but she hasn't successfully ruled anywhere. People who are stanning for Dany can ignore all of her many, many faults as much as they want, but the show writers are telling you how you should feel about her, and it's not good. In season 5 she BURNED AN INNOCENT MAN ALIVE AND FED HIS STILL LIVING BODY TO HER DRAGONS. He wasn't guilty of anything. She just wanted someone to confess to being in league with the Sons of the Harpy, so she burned this innocent man for no reason other than instilling fear into the other suspects she had (who ended up also being innocent).
To be fair, you could argue that Jon wasn't a successful 'ruler' either. He technically betrayed the rules of the Night's Watch (they were bigoted rules, but still rules) and his men killed him for it. Jon is just as bad as 'playing the game' as Ned too, which is a needed skill in ruling if Jon doesn't want to be stabbed again. I feel like the show is simplifying the plot too much just so they can finish it up faster. They're clearly setting up Dany as a tragedy, Jon as a reluctant ruler (who will either be forced into the role, or will decline). Plus, the 'innocent man' she burned alive was an upper classman of Mereen who would have owned slaves or directly profited from it, sooo not entirely innocent in my opinion lol I'm not a stan of any character, but people have such a hate boner for Dany while praising Jon as a faultless, perfect ruler and it's pretty annoying. Both characters are flawed
Exactly! I mean, the hints begin earlier in the seasons, yet all of the stans keep saying how wonderful Dany is... Her first solutions in almost any case was to burn cities to the ground... She began with Astapor and even in Mereen Tyrion had to persuade her to keep calm... then also in s7 she attacked Tyrion in front of everyone and Jon was the one to convince her to not fly to KL (a stranger, by the way). Dany is an interesting character because she is not mad (not yet anyway), but she fells entitled and destined to glory. Also the fact of having 3 huge dragons is pretty damn cool. But, as a queen, she did a terrible job, and, instead of learning from her mistakes, she decide to claim the power over a continent that doesn't miss her at all. And another thing that really piss me off is the fact that fans say that she saved the north! Like?! WTF? Without Dany and Jon working together, the north will never survive but neither ALL of Westeros! Alse I want to point out that the Queen/King of the 7K is also the *protector of the realm* so, what? Daenerys saved herself and all of her people going north. Sansa, as others have pointed out, did fight as best as she could with Tyrion in the cripts. Sadly those idiots (D&D) decided to cut it. Anyway Sansa is defending her home and the North independence. She never said no to destroy Cercei, she only doesn't want her country to submit. And it is possible, it's called alliance. You help each other without losing your sovereignty. The Vale helped in the BoB but never ask anything in return. It's not that difficult! Another thing: Dany and Jon have a toxic relationship, based solely on what she wants. She asked Jon to lie all his life and to erase what he is, because she fell threatened. But what about Jon? Why should he say yes after all he have already sacrificed for her?! I think that Sansa is afraid of the future and that is why she choose to break the promise. The moment she understands that Tyrion is afraid of Daenerys, she understand that Dany can't sit on the IT and therefore decide to "betray" Jon's trust. She also risked a lot telling Tyrion, because he could have gone to Dany and reveal that Jon told the truth to his family. Instead Tyrion told the truth to the right person. I love that Varis is a player again
Yeah lets fuck over GRRM...... They nerfed the fuck out of dragons. Unless magic is involved the only way to pierce a dragon is with a bolt in the eye....alle of those BOLTS that hit Rhaegal should have been scratches to the neck and chest.... not going through the fucking skin completely. BULLSHIT
PostApocalypticMasochist there’s a difference between a piece of shit and a troll lmao. I may not agree with the things he says but he’s my favourite because he just doesn’t not give a shit😂
So disappointed with Marketa and Navi regarding their comments about Sansa. I understand why they sympathize with Dany more (but in general I disagree about her deserving to be the queen of the Iron Throne), but Sansa not being able to physically fight doesn't mean that she will not be a good ruler (or adviser). Also, they are saying people is attracted to Jon because he is a man vs. Dany, but let's not forget that many people are also loyal to Sansa even though she's a woman. The unfortunate thing about Dany is that she's a foreigner in Westeros and that she lost a lot after fighting in Winterfell. Many people outside Westeros love Dany because she saved/freed them. However, in Westeros, she is not their savior, and people will most likely not see her as a savior when she burns King's Landing and go all mad queen. The circumstance is not in favor of Dany but in my opinion, that doesn't give her an extra point in being the "most deserving" ruler of Westeros. Currently, Dany incites fear while Jon inspires people, so naturally, people flock to Jon more.
Not trying to discredit Jon, but you do have to consider that many of those people who flock to Jon end up dying (not without purpose or for a good cause) but he doesn't have the best record for keeping his fighters alive. His tactics are pretty deadly to both his enemies and to his allies.
I agree that Sansa is not a fighter and it's understandable that she stays in the crypts and lets everyone fight. But when you're sitting and letting everyone fight for you, looking like the ungrateful one afterwards is not a good look. Arya, who is the hero of the battle, even said that while she distrusts Dany she still pays respect to Dany and Sansa looks like even taking 5 seconds of her day to pay Dany any respect is so impossible for her (while Dany lost most of her army and a dragon to the Army of the Dead).
@@acesonfire yeah. Also, Jon is too self sacrificing sometimes that he loses tactics and reason. At this point, I don't even know who needs to sit on the iron throne, that is if they continue being a monarch.
@@plunderness i agree with you too regarding Sansa being disrespectful and ungrateful. That's Sansa's fault, for not even pretending to be polite to Dany at least. Her blatant display of distrust/dislike towards Dany is one of her flaws in "playing the game of thrones". I remember Jon (earlier this season?) saying that Sansa thinks she's wiser than everybody. That may be true but rubbing it in other people's faces will definitely not be taken well. Lol. About Sansa letting other people fight for her, like I said previously, I think she knows that she has mental power rather than physical one. I'm defending Sansa (vs Dany) in this regard because Dany's advantage is her dragons (and the magic in her blood), and she let's other people fight for her too. I also think Sansa is aware that people like a ruler who can physically fight for them, someone like Jon. For all intents and purposes, Sansa is biased to Jon because he is family and because through Jon, she can somehow lead. Not so related but this episode of Game of Thrones is making us think a lot about what truly is a good leader, and that for me is what makes this a good episode. Tyrion and Vary's conversation will make you agree with them both but also confused on whose side to take.
I can’t see how people don’t realize that Dany won’t be a better ruler than Jon. Hell Sansa would be a better ruler than both of them. Dany is really entitled tbh.
@@devilovesdevil At this point Sansa trusts no one. Ironically it's HER OWN character on the books who says "a queen who trusts no one is as foolish as a queen who trusts everyone". Like? What happened to her character? This whole xenophobic agenda to push woman against woman is just the worst, and people are eating this shit and they're like "yehhhh!!! this is totally good and consistant writing!!!!"
@@devilovesdevil she didn't keep the secret because thousands of people can die under dany's rule. plus she wasn't saying it just to anyone. she knows tyrion is a smart man and will do the right thing. quite honestly, she even knows she can get them both killed for plotting against dany
@@MARYWTHER Xenophobic? Wuut, she is being reasonable, even if Jon is a dumbass he's a less worst ruler than the Mad Queen. Also, it was pretty obvious that she would tell someone.
Imagine the person who claims to love you asks you to hide your entire identity (something that has been an entire show/character journey worth of issues for Jon) just so that they can continue to acquire power. All that after they threaten your sister, refuse to listen to her military advice, and continue showing paranoid reactionary actions. And fwiw, Sansa did fight. The clip was cut, but it was still heavily implied.
23:10 it's not like "everyone, bow before me" is the greatest first impression she could be giving to be fair What people love about Jon is his humility
Varys is actually right. He serves the people not the ruler. How is anyone against that notion? Dang straight up said she don’t care if innocents die. How are people supporting her for that?
Ik people are honestly dumb as fuck. I don’t get why anyone wants to support her. Cersei > Dany no lie. The Dany supporter on the right is fucking blind and dumb
ANDSTONE100 Cersei > Dany is just my opinion because I like her character more. Dany has been better but is becoming a tyrant, something she said she wants to rid the world of. All Dany cares about is the throne and has to say her list of fucking names to everyone. Tywin once said “any man who must say I am the king is no true king” same goes for queens
Also it’s not that Dany wasn’t patient. In her eyes she just feels like she’s late to the throne. If you think about it she could have had the iron throne for months by now. If Jon wasn’t rushing her to fight the dead and the northmen came further south for a little bit. She could’ve taken the iron throne before the golden company arrived, and after they did arrive they could’ve contracted them to help them against the dead.
That would have been the worst thing to do. They would have not had time to fight that war, evacuate people, and then hold themselves at KL. The night king would have further strengthened his army on his way South. The golden company wouldn't have fought for Daeny.
They couldn't risk losing all the population in the North, who would then become soldiers of the Dead Army. Anyway, I think it would have been better if all of them stayed for a time in the North and rested, and nurse Rhaegal back to full health. Of course Cersei was getting strong in the South, she had betrayed the alliance she had promised Dany. So our Targaryen girl is now in a weaker position. Just admit it and wait up North, send scouts and assassins to the South and develop a long term strategy. And I would have assumed Dragonstone taken by her enemies. I don't know why she would suppose that it would just stay there for her if left undefended. She would have left a Castellan with a small force, and the Castellan would have reported her that Euron was around, or more likely, that Dragonstone was hers no more.
the compression between jon and he will be like robert brathion is dump marketa 23:00 i dont know what you were watching but jon is more ned stark than ned stark himself and he was a king and everyone liked him thats nothing to do with genders even varys saw it
Idk why the show forcing this " Robert was wrong for starting a war " thing , like did the show fans know that Rhaegar was selfish and deadbeat who left his wife and children unprotected, and Robert started the war after the Mad king killed Ned's brother and father. So Robert has every right to start a rebellion
She's really annoying with that gender shit. "Its not what the people want" lmao what? Literally everyone wants him to be King... all people have talked about this entire episode is Jon being a better ruler! The only one who doesnt want him to rule is Dany
there is something that will give jon more claim not just he is a man but beacuse he can marry and have kids which will give the realm more peace than dany who cant have kids varys also point that out to tyrion
Did u now know that Varys was actually working to make her dad more paranoid and making him madder since day one. Varys has no loyaltys and is always looking for ways for him to have more power and control which us why he wants Jon since Jon is weak willed
I can't believe this is what it has come to. Fuck 'this war of five kings means nothing' and the long night and the ancient evil that made it so kings froze in their castles.
Aida Aman you’re rude, good look in life with that attitude. You know nothing about me to make an accusation like that. I said what I saw and thought. Good luck being miserable
Yeah, someone was definitely not like the others here. Everyone else has something interesting to say, and this chick is just seething about sexism in a show set in a medieval fantasy world. Get over it already, I can see she's probably riding the brotha man running the show. Props to everyone but her.
@Trentsum exactly! I was shocked she neglected all the facts rendering Jon the better leader and tried to narrow down the whole discussion with @23:42 "it's just about the fucking cock!".
Sansa fought in the Crypts with Tyrion but they cut the scene. And even if she didn't, being a good fighter doesn't make one a better ruler, Robert Baratheon is the biggest example of that!
Oh my lord Marqueta... Dany is very much turning into a mad queen, if we hadn't followed her from season 1, and instead from season 7 and beyond, she would be a full on villain at this point. She doesn't deserve the throne because she wants it, thats not how it works, like Chris pointed out, Varys makes sense in saying its better that someone that doesn't want it should get it, they dint want it for the power, they'll be king or queen because its their duty to serve.
Honestly, looking back she's been awful since the end of season one. They frame it that she's a hero but Mirri had as much of a right to hate Dany as anyone. Her village was destroyed, her people raped and murdered and Dany expect loyalty for not letting the rape continue?
Don't have a good Name that’s not really right. I followed the show from season 7 and only knowing major plot points from previous seasons. Dany doesn’t give an impression of a “full on villain,” she seems heroic in fact. The entire season 7, she was fighting against Cersei, saved Jon crew from north of the wall and in season 8, aid the north against the dead. I did notice her self entitled attitude every now and then, but i brushed it off on grounds that the powerful in GOT are also generally self entitled. Besides, her arguments aren’t entirely wrong most of the times. That being said, *i am not a Dany stan* - just stating out facts here so u might benefit from another perspective.
Alicia Ann Well that’s the issue, in the earlier seasons her entire dialogue is “I’m the heir to the Iron Throne so I will get what’s mine” and achieved this through getting to have her own dragons as well as advisors that would give their lives to her.
Don't have a good Name LOL, looks like the dragons are the only redeeming thing of Daenerys Targaryen. Though I do hope the her madness was better depicted in the last season. I was confused as hell. And i don’t buy the writers’ understanding on Dany’s psyche descent to madness. It could have been way more compelling if done successfully and she could have had an amazing one-of-a-kind villain arc, considering where she stood in season 1.
Sansa on the other hand is a character who's grown from being a dumb kid who wanted to marry a king and live a fairy tale life into someone who really cares about her family and her people and at the same time is smart and knows how to play the game. So if want to root for someone who can be considered a "good" character then you should root for Sansa. Jon is alright too I guess.
charles bronson Not in my books! Her journey of survival and lessons learned from Cersei, Margery, and Little Finger.. culminating info the cunning politician she became is my favorite story arch of the series! I mean, the show is called Game of Thrones! She played the game and won!
I think if anyone other than Sansa would've told Khaleesi to wait a little bit , she would've but you know when someone you dont like tells you to do something and you just not gonna do it just bcs they said it
You're right. Dany is very childish and she won't ever do what Sansa says because she doesn't like her. Maybe if Jon wasn't such a dumb asslicker of hers he could've listened to his sister and try to make Dany change her mind since she actually listens to him. Tyrion is smart too and he knew that Sansa was right but he wouldn't question D since he's afraid of her... Such a mess
That's why she isn't a good queen. She should take good advice no matter who it comes from. Even Sansa knows this. Sansa who dislikes her was willing to provide her with really good advice to help her out and Dany just goes against her and loses a dragon and her most loyal adviser.. Great job
@@A12-n9u2x I feel like Jon and Dany balance each other out and keep each other from falling victim to their own selves. Jon's naivety and Dany's impatience. Sansa could be a great advisor to them both if only she didn't have that little bit of Cersei about her. I feel like it was good that she learned from Cersei, but she kinda allowed it to also infect her a bit. Don't forget that most everything that happened to Sansa also happened to Dany too. Freedom stolen, Sold and raped, lied to and manipulated by people they thought they could trust....
@@acesonfire i think she could still advise them but they won't listen. both of them keep ignoring her and she always ends up being right. that's what is making her seem more like cersei. if only they followed what she says, everything would be better.
Sorry Markéta, I gotta agree with the others on this one. Right now, Dany cares more about power than she does the people. The route she's going, no, she wouldn't be the best ruler. I wish that weren't the case. Also didn't ANYONE else notice that there seemed to be only one dragon left on the sigil in, the last frame of, the opening theme? That was a major hint right there.
Really and why is that exactly? Let's see the facts, she stopped the slavery and destroyed their business, she conquer their main City, and in the process she used the minimum of force. She's pressing her claim because with out that power everything she's been trough is for nothing, with out power she cannot realize any of her goals. And cares about people more, Varys, Sansa, give me a break.
While I do agree that, right at this moment, Dany is far from fit to rule, it's definitely not all about power anymore. Not after Rhaegal and Missandei's deaths. At this point what Dany cares about is revenge. What she is feeling right now is a mother's grief and rage. And she has every right to feel that way.
@@stevem2323 she only did that because she knew she would have to fight the dead either in the north or the south. That doesn't make her fit to rule! Someone deciding to act out of self interest, even if that benefits other people, isn't some sign of a good and just ruler. She's obbsessed with power, and is willing to kill thousands of innocent civilians to get it.
You guys ignored the most important part of the Danny vs jon debate, Bran. He doesn’t trust her, he sees everything, he knows she isn’t best for the throne, which is why he made Sam tell him. Sam also made a huge point when he tells him. He bent the knee to save his people and do what’s best for them, but would she? Jon sided with tyrion and wants to blockade Kings landing and cut off the food, let the people over throw cersi, that’s the difference, Jon want to exhaust every option and protect as much life as possible, Danny only cares about the throne. A good side note, her claim to the throne is completely reliant on Jon not existing, and the fact she would suppress who he is instead of standing behind the true heir to the throne tells you everything you need to know
@@Adrian-rb4qp, That's actually the vibe I got. I didn't even believe it was happening to begin with, felt more like a dream. I know a few of them mentioned that the dragon was dead, but I never really felt it was definite.
Daenerys hasn't proven that she can rule though. In Meereen as soon as she came up against resistance she started burning random nobles alive and completely lost control of the situation.
Random nobles, please stop with this ignorance. Those people she burned were just in battle with her. That fact that she gave them an option life or death was more than lenient. Who would you prefer cerise who blew up a whole sept, and proven how mad she really is.
Plus she publicly beheaded their leader that she appointed to her leadership council for killing the Son of the Harpy, who were terrorists threatening the innocent of the city, former slaves, their protectors, and Daenerys herself.
She doesn't know how to rule or lead. She was a Khaleesi because she was married to Drogo. She took over slavers Bay but she was losing control. She takes one city and loses control of another. She had great advisers, but she was so impulsive and didn't always listen. The Unsullied followed her because she freed them because she has a Dragon, and the Dothraki followed her because she survived fire. She never did anything herself. She relies on her advisers, unable to make decisions of her own. All she had were slaves. There are no slaves in Westeros. They have no reason to flock to Dany. Not the North, not any of the Kingdoms.
@@starfusion76 Cersei told Tyrion about the child long ago, and if he did tell him Tyrion wouldn't believe it. It would be Jaime's, I believe even Jaime confirmed it.
Danny is slowly snapping, each dragons death pushes her closer to panic, and now she’s lost her right hand. PLUS the people love jon more than her, she’s officially lost her damn mind. Also I think the show is baiting us with jon snow, those farewells is too obvious, they want us to think jon snow is dead especially after what Sansa has said but Sansa revealing the secret is her attempt to save jon/ take down danny. If Danny didn’t have dragons what does she actually bring? She has a savior complex and the more dragons she loses the more she realizes her “destiny” is out of her hands.
taylor lyn Exactly its pissing me off how their making it out like she's the crazy one, She should have burned kings landing down from when she first arrived with all of her dragons
How can people even think for 1 second that Danny would be a better ruler than Jon snow oO That's beyond me and i don't even think Jon would be a really good ruler xD
@What About That is one of the stupidest assumptions i've heard. Do you even comprehend the definition of being a feminist? Cercei is a "girl power female", do you see women rooting for her?
The biggest reason Jon will turn on Danny is because she more than likely will order the deaths of Sam, Bran and Sansa and Arya. I can see her willing to kill all who had a hand in telling the truth. That is the only way I could see Jon killing the MAD QUEEN. No one wants it, but it seems that is where she will go.
After Missandei died everyone was like “fuck this shit” that’s the one person that wasn’t allowed to die. They built such a lovable character for 6 seasons for that heartbreak. Damn that hurt,
One point about Jon having a better claim because he's a man. This is completely wrong. Jon has a better claim because he is the son and heir of the firstborn child. There probably still is a rule that men will inherit over women but in this case it is irrelevant as Rhaegar was the oldest of the children and Jon his son. The crown goes down generations not horizontally across.
The show wasn't saying Jon has a better claim because he's a man, it's true that he's further along in succession than Dany; the point is that a lot of people, high-ranking ones at that, would choose him over her simply because they think a man is better capable of ruling due to their own bias (regardless of history or actions they've taken to prove themselves worthy of the throne). Personally, I don't think Jon or Dany would make a good ruler.
The Faith of the Seven doesn't allow polygamy. A strong argument could be made that Jon is Rhaegar's bastard despite the wedding ceremony because Rhaegar already had a wife.
Yeah right. She should have listened to tyrion and let the men who went to capture the dead die. Instead she went to save them and got her dragon killed.
@John Something place dotraki and unsullied with dragonglass arrows on top of the wall. Combine this shit with dragons and they will never pass. Fucking 100 Crows hold back 100 000 wildlings for a day. With her army slow walkers ain't even a threat.
@@karthiknarayanan3705 could have placed some old man who's about to die, or a murderer/rapist (dead) behind the wall and wait for him to be reanimated.
Sansa wants the North to be independent like her & Robb fought for. But now this foreigner comes & tells them she's their queen & if they refuse they're in rebellion. All she cares about is the North, her people and her family. I don't think she wants any throne but the one in the North. Also, Sansa wasn't trained to fight so I can't hold that against her. Dany only fights on a dragon, an option Sansa doesn't have.
Charlene Raymond totally agree. Sansa has learned from the best. Cersei And Littlefinger taught her how to play the game and she’s the only one who has Political experience. Dany has liberated slaves across the sea but their isn’t any slavery in Westeros. Also her rule in Mareeen was filled with a lot of bloodshed and she struggled to keep hold of her power. Dany dosnt have a lot of political experience in Westeros, it’s different it’s about loyalty or the illusion of loyalty and power. Jon may not want to be king But that just might be what Westeros needs. Sansa already asked Dany what happens to the North. And Dany didn’t answer. That’s a problem to Sansa and Arya. The North ruled itself for thousands of years and the Targaryens only had power b/c of Dragons. Aegon was a conqueror and now So is Dany. She’s an outsider and it’s been made very apparent in this episode.
@@mjgorgeous I actually think Dany could be a good leader for the Iron Throne once the war is over of she keeps her emotions in check. I just don't think the North should have to be part of that. I don't want to see Jon on there (though he might be my fav) because he would HATE it. I think she might have given the throne to Gendrey this episode by accident though...
This independence of the North was still a possibility, Dany was capable of handing the North the sort of independence Dorne has despite still being part of the seven kingdoms. Sansa questioned Dany again about the Northern independence the moment they started to form some form understanding, a question she didn't have an answer for right then. Daenerys isn't some foreign ruler who's come to take their lands by force, she's a ruler who is trusted by the "King in the North", a ruler who has stopped her cause to help them fight in the real war. Arya doesn't trust Daenerys but she still gave her credit where it's due for involvement in the war against the dead, Sansa on the other hand couldn't stomach accepting the fact that they needed her. Sansa has no real reason for her dislike for Daenerys, her writing in this conflict is head scratching and her character has become a contrarian for the sake of being one, she disagrees with suggestions and plans but doesn't offer any alternative.
Charlene Raymond very true but Dany it seems that they are making it very hard for Dany to check her emotions and I will agree to that. She is in mourning and now just lost her bff, but I don’t think the North should be part of the 7 kingdoms anymore. They’ve earned that right. And I agree acknowledging Gendry in public like that gave him open claim to the throne should Dany fail.
ANDSTONE100 also agree. They are making conflict were is isn’t needed but give audience something to talk about. I would have hoped by now Sansa could have at least accepted that Jon is in love with Dany and will go south but I think she and Arya are just a bit worried since their father and brother died playing the game. Jon is honest and honorable but that’s just Jon, no one is going to play nice in the South and Sansa seen that first hand. Im at least hoping she’s playing the family card cuz if not then all this is just extra drama.
Danny wasn't supporting Jon. If she hadn't gone north, she would've had to deal with the dead eventually later, only much more of them. So she wasn't being altruistic.
Dany isn't a good ruler... She had a hard time in Essos, if she rules in Westeros it'll just be much worse. She's a great conqueror though. She kinda takes after Aegon the Conqueror... she rode a dragon to Westeros, etc. etc. But being a good conqueror doesn't make you a good ruler.
Nothing Daenerys has done or wants to do is all that crazy. Her father was called mad (mentally ill) because he became an actual paranoid schizophrenic. He heard voices and saw plots against him that weren't there. He refused to clean himself and died muttering the same thing over and over. He wanted to burn everything and everyone. He was not behaving rationally. Daenerys is a sane person who wants to sack a city and conquer a kingdom. 10,000 civilian deaths is unfortunate, but not unreasonable. Are we going to pretend that innocent people don't die during conquests? Executing the Tarlys was not a sign of insanity either. She was willing to send the Tarlys to the Wall to take the black but Randyll rejected her authority and chose death. That's on him. Was executing slavers back in Essos supposed to be a tragedy? She made slaving a capital offense. Slavers wanted to keep slaving. They paid the price. Just like that brother of the Night's Watch who fled the Wall had to pay the price. Desertion was a capital offense. Ned wasn't "mad" for executing him. Has Daenerys shown signs of paranoia? Well, she fears what could happen if Jon's secret is revealed. But then we see Tyrion and Varys (our sanest and cleverest characters) come to the same conclusion a few scenes later. She's also suspicious of Sansa. But then we see that Sansa is actually scheming for Northern Independence and actively leaking information that could hurt Daenerys. So she should be suspicious of Sansa, shouldn't she? She suspects that her advisers, Varys and Tyrion, have divided allegiances, but again ... they do. Tyrion's in love with Sansa, still loves his brother, and has already lied to her. Varys is serving "the Realm" (which really translates to "whatever Varys thinks is best at any given moment"). If this is a depiction of someone becoming paranoid, why are the person's fears all justified?
yeah, they'd actually make good Nazis. The kind of blind irrational loyality is what kept Hitler in power. Fictional show or not, these are real people on the screen. If Daenarys existed, they probably would not faulter on loyalty. Scary really.
The leaks from 9 months ago turned out true with this episode. The guy said Missandei will be beheaded by the Mountain and Jon would fight Viserion in the winterfell courtyard... The other things he said were about what happens to Jon and Dany in the end, you can read it here if you want www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/8ynd8c/edits_to_previous_spoilers_more/
@@MARYWTHER Oh someone who thinks she's smart cause you read the books congratulations :) Too bad you will never be able to read the end cause the writer will be dead by then :)
Anyone else feel like the blonde girl is incredibly biased just because Dany is a girl? I meeeannnn.. Turning it into a boy vs girl argument when it has nothing to do with anything....
Yep. I like Marketa but she seems to blindly support Dany. Maybe its because Dany is a girl, maybe she's just a fan of her. Imo neither of them will get the throne
Well, it is kinda strange for a charismatic intelligent woman to suddenly turn into a reckless tyranical flat-out villain the moment a male character has a claim to her position. I don't know if you've heard of the cliché of making powerful women seem cold and unpersonal but that's definetly what's happening here. Even if you can't aggree with that you have to have seen how Dany's been acting more out of character the moment Jon was declared heir while Jon has been showed to be more and more of a heroic 100% 'good' character.
Lol, the white girl can't see the character arc of Danerys. It's all about turning the protagonist bad. "You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself a villian." She is going to become the exact tyrant she was trying to save everyone from. She is going to bring out the dragon and become her father's daughter. At this point, she has made so many mistakes and emotions have gotten the best of her. She is so power hungry for the throne and she did not let the armies rest and think strategiclly. She essentially killed her own dragon. Now she is filled with rage and will make mistakes to make herself vulnerable to die or she will win but become the mad queen. Your male hating has blinded you from the dowfall of your favorite character and I can't wait to see you cry.
Jeroy Dimasuay stg her and Arya don’t take shit from anyone sansa is the only one that didn’t underestimate cersei. Sansa : Throne Her body guards: Arya Hound Brienne | jon if he survives: Advisors : tyrion Varys and davos.
y theory for the end will be that Arya or jaimie will kill cersei after cersei kills everyone on the battlefield and thinks she's won. That'll leave jaimie to be king, he doesn't want to be king and will give sansa the throne. This is just a wild guess but i believe some of this will happen.
Oh yeah Robert did a great job uh? And so did Jon, oh wait, he gave up his people for pussy and got killed by his people. the bad writing is strong with this one
How is Sansa not being in combat an argument? Sansa is the reason that they have Winterfell to defend. She took it from the Boltons and saved it form Littlefinger. She has been playing the game and keeping the North united despite Jon's bad decisions. Telling Tyrion that Jon is a Targaryan will probably save his life. Jon is an idiot. All Sansa asked was for Dany to let the troops rest but Dany cares more about the throne than their lives. She lost a dragon because of her own stupidity and will cause the death of thousands of her own people not to mention that she might kill thousands of innocents inside the Red Keep.
Varys could turn the Golden Company to Jons side. Euron had to overhear the baby being Jamie's so he could turn on Cersei. Might make the battle less damaging to civilians.
The Golden Company breaks its contract with the Free City of Myr, despite looming war with neighboring Lys and Tyrosh. Feast for Crows. @@houseofaction
Marketa has not been paying attention, she saved them, that does not make her a good ruler. She has proven that she is good a conquering people not rule them. Robert Baratheon was a terrible king because he just had no interest in ruling, but his reign was an incredibly prosperous one, because regardless that he didn't want to rule he put capable people in place for them to do the ruling for him. Jon is not Robert Baratheon, he would still hate ruling, but he would do it and he would be good at it specially if he has capable advisors to tell him when he is being stupid. Also I thought it was very well established that a good warrior does not automatically make a good ruler. You guys should watch Fate Zero, Iskandar will spell out for you what it means to be a king.
HeyAngel7 Exactly. First of all, Sansa is a politician not a fighter. She was in the crypts with the other men, women, and children who couldn’t fight. Nobody is shitting on Tyrion, Varys, Gilly, and Missandei for not fighting. She knew out there she’d only get in the way like Sam who got Edd killed. And there’s a deleted scene of her and Tyrion fighting wights to protect the kids.
If Drogon bites the dust too Dany will be nothing anymore. All her power is based on them, not on herself. Thats why people are flocking to Jon instead of her.
Marketa need to chill and start seeing what the show is trying to show us. Dany's character is shifting for the worse. I get that she's your favorite, but you have to accept she has flaws and that her flaws are starting to reveal themselves more and more. Don't bring gender politics into the table and start facing the possibility that Jon is the more stable and fair individual despite him being a man.
I agree with this. And also, about the title of 'Warden', I believe it's more military that political. It's like the 'Protector of the realm' title, which usually goes together with the title of King, but in the case of a child king, the Protector of the Realm is the Regent (the Protector is the one in charge of the royal army). I mean, in that time it was not usual that the women were trained for battle. We have seen Brienne being made a Knight, Arya is now considered a Hero, and Lyanna Mormont has been respected as one too, but it is still not usual, and Sansa is not a warrior. The North is open to a Lady being a political leader and a Warrior as was little Lyanna, but Sansa is not that kind of leader, that's why she is not the Warden of the North. And I would say she is happy to be Lady of Winterfell and have Jon be the Warden. But, anyway, those kind of situations could possibly bring along tensions, that's why the people like a man better in a position of power. We know today that it's good to have some women in positions of power and it's good to have separate responsibilities in a government and force them to dialogue and find compromises; but in a cut-throat time like the one they were living in Westeros, it was arguably better to have just one strong and respected leader. Anyway, I believe that Jon and Daenerys ruling together as King and Queen of the Seven Kingdoms and Protectors of the Realm (she leads armies riding Drogon), preferably as a Marriage (or at least as a Targaryen alliance of Aunt and Nephew), could be a good option. That's what Queen Isabel and King Fernando did in Spain (XVth century), she was Queen of one part of the Realm and he was King of the other part, but they instituted a united realm, which would go together to their heirs.
it isn't shifting though. the problem is that its being done very heavy handedly and is forced af. she wont marry because she doesn't wanna share the throne? LMAO, she offered to do just that in previous seasons as a political move. she's the daughter of the mad king and is getting angry and sad because her people died? wow So does that mean Jon is living up to his grandfather's madness when he reacted emotionally to seeing his brother and fucked over the BOB strategy? this isnt about gender or wtv. its about rushed AF storytelling. instead of having organically show her being unhinged the show tells us what to think of her and how to interpret her reactions through Varys and Tyrion
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Euron will win in the end with Yara by his side.
Yall hve forgotten the Bryan Vision at Kings Landing and that vision is related to the end.
I predict that Aria will be killed by The Mountain. The god of death will get his due.
Sansa told Dani not go to Kings Landing yet, so if Dani dragon and Missandei got kill,
becuz it's Dani own fault for not listen.
@FEAR The Walking Don yeah exactly, why aren't they realized that already. Dany is straight on becoming her father now. Full of jealousy and paranoid
Jon: Hugs everyone and their mother, even Gilly who he doesn't even really know that well.
Ghost: "Am i a joke to you?"
Being fair the safest thing he could do is send him far away from the main cast. Now there’s a chance he will live. And Tormund would be a good owner...as long as he doesn’t try getting freaky with Ghost 😱😱🤣😂🤪
That thing just killed me fuck it Bro why are Wolves not given a place in this show it is as important a symbolism as dragons..😫😫
@@B-Dad Sure, i'm not mad that he sent him away, it was a good decision, i just don't like that he didn't really say goodbye to him. :/
They really cheaped out on the direwolves this season :p
@@blissfulbarbie It may sound cruel, but if you're going to leave an animal with someone else, it's probably for the best you don't say goodbye. It would just make it harder on Ghost. No point in making the animal even more attached to Jon the moment they say goodbye. But yeah, I felt sad too.
Jon: “Swear it!”
Sansa: “I’m about to end this woman’s whole career!”
Sansa's about to save Westeros.
Yea that was a little finger move on Sansa's part. Just like Dany, she knew that once the truth came out Dany would be done... so she let it out.
@@iliboxic7586 no, its actually going to drive a wedge between her and her King (assuming Jon becomes king). Jon will never trust her again.
@@johnr8095 Jon will trust Sansa when he has to end the madness of his aunt for the Starks.
@@eternalposer1955 Dany knew that Jon would have married her. But she's a selfish and horrible person who doesn't even want to share power which rightful belongs to her own nephew.
**Rhaegal just died, and Daenerys is litrally angry af**
: That's a sexy boat, that's a sexy boat tho
LOL
He's not wrong, gotta appreciate a sexy boat
That's a nice boulder....I like that boulder
That dude is my favorite of the normies !! love a cersei fan
Sansa went full Tom Holland on that secret
Mark Ruffalo*
I forgot how much I love the conversations between Tyrion and Varys
It has been all about cowcks and bawlls now since Tyrion's character(his dialogue precisely) got butchered. It's been like this since season 5 or 6... Fuck D&D
I dont hope Varys get burned alive that fucking disgusting spider needs to be erradicated.
telgou delou they joked about cocks since season 1 that’s not a valid complain
Jon: **gives Ghost the middle finger as he rides out of Winterfell**
That's hilarious
Psychic connection.. no physical goodbyes are needed. Read the book.
A M I know.
@@Vball-Vidz The show never touched on the psychic connections between the Stark siblings and their direwolves, so Jon barely looking Ghost in the eyes for two seconds made their farewell look a lot colder than it probably was.
Luis Rosa the show isn’t a book, where it’ll tell you what the characters are thinking. So how the hell are they going to touch on it save for a couple of obvious things were you can tell a limit psychic connection was done.
Is Euron smart enough to realize that if Tyrion knows about the baby, then it is most likely not his.
The showrunners are not
He should be
@@emadbu5 He should be, and then Cersei should be quick enough to counter that Qyburn told Tyrion during their talk to appeal to his sense of family (it is known he adored Myrcella and Tommen)
@@xBrandNewHope it is known
First thing that popped in my mind as soon as Tyrion mentioned the baby lmao.
Sansa : I swear it!
Every man, woman, child and even the horses knows the secret😂
Thaaat bitch 🔥 😁
Once the horses heard there was no stopping the spread. Blabbermouths all.
36:50 I completely agree with Chris in that this is Dany's character right now. I will completely understand if she does decide to do this. Not condoning it, just understand.
First off, I don't like Dany that much, haven't for the past two seasons, but I do find her character fascinating. To me Dany's biggest fault is how she handles two characteristics of hers: she has the naivety of Jon (the good heart), but a certain cruelness close to Cersei (Mad King/Queen). She's naive in that she does not play the game of thrones that well, understandable since she hasn't had to that much until she got to Westeros. Also, she has a temper and a cruelness about her that does/will not favor well with the people, on top of the fact that she's in Westeros where people do not view her family in a good light. Now you can argue that every ruler needs both of these qualities. But I think what hurts Dany is her timing. She picks the wrong times to be cruel and not to be. Actually....that's a pretty interesting antagonist if I do say so myself, assuming that is the direction they are going in. Also, Jon is not a good choice either. Like Dany he makes horrible decisions, and that is his character.
I agree. Neither Jon nor Daenarys will be good leaders. Jon will make naive decisions because of his good heart and daenarys would not get the people's support. I'm not a fan of Sansa but she will be a better leader than those 2. They might as well destroy the iron throne, and end the whole 1 ruler for seven kingdoms thing. Maybe independent lands might work best for everyone.
Omg this is the best GoT related comment ever made. Thank you for actually assessing the scenario without undue bias
That is why the show will probably end with a complete dissolution of the Iron Throne, Monarchy and seven kingdoms much like the Holy Roman Empire, which dissolved and united each German kingdom into one nation, except, Democracy will be the system (not another absolute monarchy). GRRM actually dislikes monarchies and is in favor of democracy.
Thank you! I don't agree with her being an antagonist. She is more of a grey character - one dwindling between Jon and Cersei. Also considering they are two episodes left, if they do go in that direction it will be very half baked and shallow (writing has been a huge deservice). But unlike writers who are admant to show that Jon is better ruler, he is no good. He is naive and would make terrible political decisions.
I'm a huge dany fan and this is the most fair analysis of her from someone who doesnt like her. Very well said
Chris: "He's shedding all the things that make him a Stark"
Bro that's the first time someone explains it like that. Adept af
There once was a girl called Miss Sunday, who lost her head before Monday ...
👀👀👀😂😂😂😂😭😭😭😂😂
ffs
lol
HAHAHAAH xD
😂😂🤣🤣🤣😁🤣😂🤣😂
LOL I love how upset everyone is by Jon not petting or hugging Ghost goodbye xD I feel you guys.
I definitely feel he should leave him in the north.. but yeah..he shoulda given him a good ol petting first.
it's not Jon Snow's fault that D & D didn't want to spend money lol
Johnny Skinwalker
That’s true but it’s a fucking disappointment lol.
@eddiewinehosen The show has shown Jon petting Ghost on other occasions. That was probably their goodbye. That's just pathetic.
On the bright side, I have no doubt that Tormund will take much better care of Ghost and will give him lots of love and pets.
Everytime i watch the scene where Dany screams while charging against Euron, a part of me dies with her.
Me too I don't know why I keep on coming back to UA-cam to watch these videos knowing full well that I'll see that Dragon died again it's pure torture to me
Shannon Balogh i feel you...i don’t even know why they want her to turn so mad now,they could have handled the NK an Cersei arc way better, i get that the ending will stick with Martin plan of making it bittersweet,but fuck me this is so forced and depressing as hell
well she got mad because qyburn thought ahead and had already upgraded their civilization tree to access manufacturing of the industrial age during the medieval age in order to mass produce those scorpions. they probably had a lot of builders just waiting too. not to mention euron definitly got that modern era X15 scope. i'd rage too
Andrea Andrea Shes mad because shes losing everything, her army, her claim to the throne, her dragons and now her best friend. I’d be mad as hell too if everything and everyone I loved and worked for was slipping away from me.
Jency Victor but i still support her, i don’t care how hard they’ll try to make me dislike her,and i share this kind of madness considering what she’s been through, i just can’t stand that they’re making her mad in such a rush because they couldn’t handle the all NK arc better and now they need another bad guy to settle things
17:38 Yes, but Dany's goal was to break the wheel. The whole point is that playing the game of thrones will only perpetuate it. Jon said it best: "But if you use them to melt castles and burn cities, you're not different...you're just more of the same.
" Dany's character arc seems to transitioning into tragedy as her darker nature takes over. The only person not playing the game is Jon Snow.
Also it becomes very bland storytelling in hindsight if Dany wins. Basically, GoT is a story following a bunch of lords squabbling over Westeros whose drama is meaningless because Dany rises to power in the distance and then comes over and takes the throne.
At the end of the day Daenarys didn't grow up in Westeros. This episode highlights that more than previous did. These aren't her people anymore. They don't know her and she doesn't know them. They've been at the mercy of kings, queens and lords who have grabbed ever hungrily for the throne. The moment Daenarys sacrifices the people to take the throne she becomes just another conniving ruler in the game of thrones. Another mad king. Another Cercei. Westeros will only change for the better when someone who doesn't play the game and can unite the people takes the throne. Daenarys may yet merit the Throne but it depends on her decision next episode.
Side Note: Comparing Jon Snow to Robert Baratheon is comparing apples to oranges. Robert was a spoiled first born son.
Robert doesn't have Jon's morality and devotion to duty.
THIS!!! She keeps talking about ending Tyranny all while becoming more and more Tyrannical. ... I hate her.
The closer she gets to the Throne the thirstier she gets.
Cant compare Robert and Jon . Robert was irresponsible he was the oldest heir for his Castle before he became King. Jon was raised like he would never attain anything. Jon never wanted leadership roles and it was still given to him , he is way more responsible than Robert ever was. Robert only loved fighting , and was bored on the throne because of it. Jon would prefer to keep peace than fight all the time , and will only fight if necessary.
Are you sure? Jon joined the Night’s Watch because he felt he had no purpose other than to fight others. He then wanted to go fight in his brothers war. He has been in a fight almost all of his life, and now he wants to go fight for Dany instead of remaining in Winterfell with his real Family. I think he would be equally as bored as Robert on the throne, as ruling as a political leader isn’t really Jon’s strong-suit.
He's not as ruthless as Robert tho, which is pretty much a requirement to keep these 7 shits together.
@@BhBc8f8 Jon's ruthless when he needs to be: see Janos Slynt
@@Redfield982 Hmm I don't really see that as ruthless that's just obeying the law and passing the sentence like Ned. Ruthless is sacrificing and even executing a few of your men to defeat your enemy. Or allowing your people to get cornered so you can sneak behind the enemy and deal a decisive blow. Or killing a pregnant woman and her family at a wedding to protect your family's lagacy. Or hanging every person who ever treated someone like a piece of property to end slavery. and so on. I could be wrong but I don't think Jon could ever do any of that, he's just too good for the IT.
@@BhBc8f8 Robert was mostly Ruthless during his Time on the throne because alot of the people in the kingdom according to his own words during season 1 still called him Usurper. since Jon has been on this path that actually led to him being pretty much like his biological father was as the future ruler of westeros, And him being the successor of the true crowned prince, also having the North, Vale, The Riverlands(through family) ,and wildlings backing him he wouldnt have much of an issue maintaining peace in his lifetimem
[Direwolves] don't belong in the south.
Nymeria: Am I a joke to you?
Be grateful if Jon had attempted to touch Ghost he might have imploded but being sent to live offscreen with Tormund is a good end. He can live a good life and come back if he wishes since there is no wall!
@@B-Dad Tormund will have a bright future opening a dog shelter charity, named Wildling Hounds.
Nobody tell your secrets to Sansa
HAHAHAHAH best
But didn't Tyrion already know ?? When they were in the boat and he looked shocked.
That's the littlefinger in her
@elevated100 yeah she is a sneaky bitch
but nobody is talking about Jon being a snitch too, Dany told him not to tell anyone and yeah bran told them but he brought it up, he couldve just stfu. So shes a snitch but not him?
The only one who got shot down harder than Rhaegal was Gendry lol
Lol this comment though
Grrrrrr, waaaaa😭
Used for a night in bed....
@@zzygyy just like brienne
@@hdhdhedhdh986 Yes but Brienne was not trying to wife Jamie....................
I love how everyone is arguing after the episode while Rana just chillin like a queen😎
@Xavi Campoverde nah. Judging from the way they looked at the others they probably have different opinions from the show.
22:58 Awww, I feel bad for Marketa. She is clearly invested in Dany. IMO the person who enforces her will through dragons is the LAST person who should have unlimited power. I think that is what GRRM is trying to say as well. Did no one in the Normies see this coming? Also Jon would have a better claim to the throne even if he were a woman.
Also why does Sansa have to fight in order to have credibility? Fighting and ruling are totally different skill set. I think this point is obvious as well.
ej
Yea I can see you point but I have to admit that Jon probably won’t be a good king. Let me show you a couple comments a posted
I don’t get why people think that Jon can be a good king. He too much like Ned they both have no idea how to play the game how to play politics or how to rule. Hell Jon was killed for being to honorable at the nights watch. How the hell is he gonna rule over 7 kingdoms when he couldn’t lead a small military order without getting betrayed. He a terrible judge of character. He always trust the wrong people. Telling sansa just shows that he isn’t able to read people. Anyone with any sense of how to play the game would have known that she wouldn’t keep that secret.He can’t control his own Sister how will he control an whole kingdom. I love his character a lot but he only respected in the north not though out the 7 kingdoms
While I sure Dany is gonna go mad for plot reasons she not really going mad yet. She was right that if Jon told his family about his birth it gonna come back to bite them. She is right about people conspiring against her. She just lost many people close to her which would make most people a little angry 😡. And she is right that somehow she has to kill Cersei at some point. Consuming all this I don’t really see her as going crazy as much as cracking under a lot of stress
YAAS QUEEN SLAY syndrome is a dangerous thing. Blinds you to character flaws.
WARNING IF THE LEAKS TO BE TRUE THEN PREPARE YOURSELF THIS WILL DESTROY THE SHOW FOREVER.
@@massmedia7158 you are wrong. He did quite good as lord commander considering he let the wildlings through the wall, which nobody before ever has done. Achieving something nobody has ever done before already makes you good. He had nobody to cover his back then, as Sam fucked off to Old Town. As King he would have Davos or Varys or Sansa even to fend off the snakes.
@@massmedia7158 I don't think Jon would be a great king - I'm just replying to the Normie's accusation of misogyny. Jon, no matter his gender, no matter Dany's gender, has the better claim. That's all. Also, if he does end up on the throne, it looks like Sansa will be a powerful force behind it. He's not gonna be "controlling" her.
Also about Sansa breaking her oath - I have no problems with it if her aim is Northern independence and the safety her House. Jon on the throne = safety of her House (a de facto co-regency). So she broke a promise, boohoo. She's living in a dangerous world with high stakes. She's not yet Littlefinger, but if she wants to achieve her goals, she's gonna have to do some messed up stuff (not be like Ned). I don't have problems with that.
Yea , Dany just lost thousands of her followers in the Long night, lost Jorah, lost Dragon, lost best friend! You can easily lose it after that!!!!
She just lost it because she knows that she's not a rightful Queen and a traitor. She only cares about the throne and not about any person.
Ili Boxic 🤔😂
So what you’re saying is that it’s ok for her to lose it? Fuck that. A level headed ruler is needed. The Danny fan girls need to calm down.
she's like the thor of got, loses everything & everyone
@@iliboxic7586 its actuelly the opposit, she never been more strong than when she was seeking power (dorthrakis, unsillied,3 dragons) and now she's helping other, she's loosing everything. u can have your point of view, but here, there's no debate. She started to loose everthing when she started to help jon,
Varys is fighting for the little man. I can respect that.
I've always liked Varys, but with that scene he became one of my favorites. He may be sneaky and not 100% trustworthy, but thats because he has no real political ties, he just acts in the best interest of the people, not the 1%,
@@LightMusicK dont worry daenerys just tell him in season 7 if he betray her he will be burn alive
@@antoinebenati8375 That's STUPID AF HE'S A FUCKING FLIP-FLOPER the worst of all, if he thinks he always sees for the realm HE SHOULD BE KING THEN and GUESS WHAT the fucking twat is just an opportunist spider always trying to save his neck just like Littlefinger, instead of flip-floping so much he should try to aid the King he's supposed serving instead of just nit-picking rulers and betraying them like the fucking disgusting insect he is.
@@LightMusicK He was right in everything he said tho.
He cuts out the tongues of his little birds lmao
Marketa says that there is only one way to do this, but that is not true. Another option is for Dany to no be so power hungry, and simply not try to take Kings Landing right now. Why is that not an option? Sansa even told her that she should allow her men and dragons to rest and heal their wounds. And Dany did not fight "Jons war". She fought to help save the kingdoms that she says are hers by right. How is that Jons war?
Also, get it right-- Jon would be the rightful heir to the throne even if he were a female, or if he and Dany were both men. He's the rightful heir because he is Rhaegars son, and the line of succession goes through Rhaegars line until his line has not further successors. That's how succession works. And the reason that people like Jon more, which they've said out loud in the episodes, is due to him being a reluctant leader who doesn't scream every episode about his claim to a throne. He doesn't want or ask for power, yet he takes these positions when people put him in the position as a duty he has to those people to help them.
Joshua F I do think that job is a truly selfless ruler but I not sure he be a good king let me repost a comment I already made to say why
I don’t get why people think that Jon can be a good king. He too much like Ned they both have no idea how to play the game how to play politics or how to rule. Hell Jon was killed for being to honorable at the nights watch. How the hell is he gonna rule over 7 kingdoms when he couldn’t lead a small military order without getting betrayed. He a terrible judge of character. He always trust the wrong people. Telling sansa just shows that he isn’t able to read people. Anyone with any sense of how to play the game would have known that she wouldn’t keep that secret.He can’t control his own Sister how will he control an whole kingdom. I love his character a lot but he only respected in the north not though out the 7 kingdoms
Also I feel that Danny not really going mad as much as she she cracking from pressure. Here another comment I made to explain that
While I sure Dany is gonna go mad for plot reasons she not really going mad yet. She was right that if Jon told his family about his birth it gonna come back to bite them. She is right about people conspiring against her. She just lost many people close to her which would make most people a little angry 😡. And she is right that somehow she has to kill Cersei at some point. Consuming all this I don’t really see her as going crazy as much as cracking under a lot of stress
@@massmedia7158 not being good at scheming is really far down my "things that makes you a bad king" list. Besides, as a king he'll have Varys for that.
@@massmedia7158 Or she could just let go of iron throne.
She knows jon has better claim then why isnt she stepping down?? He is your brother's son for god's sake!!
The righful king even if he doesnt want it.
Not a one single time there was a hint of little sense in her while taking to jon!!
"I AM THE ONE WHO WILL SIT ON IRON THRONE" That fucking arrogance right there!!
Instead asking jon to keep quiet she could hv said.."You r the righful king so You sit on throne be the king and i'll be your queen and we ll rule together make world a better place for people"
That would hv solved all problems especially sansa's bitch ass!!
You see the problems in her not saying any of that?? Not even wanting to share throne even with a guy she is in "LOVE" with!!
Her stupid decisions and arrogance got her dragon killed...
Or all of these is just a sloppy writing!!!
Yes but if Dany were a man and Jon a woman, it would be passed down to Dany and skip Jon
@@scmicahrguison nope
For the girls who said that Sansa didn't do anything in the crypts, there was a deleted scene that was shown during the Game Revealed clip where Sansa & Tyrion were killing wights. It's just unfortunate that the showrunners decided to cut that scene.
But it was deleted so guess what? She didnt do a single thing
@@homunculus7 It was still implied in the episode. She pulled the knife out
@@homunculus7 - Angela G is correct! It was nevertheless IMPLIED. Why else would Sansa and Tyrion come out of hiding with knives in their hands if not to fight wights??
Cersei is really good at triggering people.
Not really, she just has a lot of ammo.
I'm really good at triggering people, all I have is a computer and an internet connection.
@@bigfan1041 Lame
@@miguelvalsassina4547 Dude, your profile picture is the joker.
😂
@@bigfan1041 joker is one of the best
If only you guys had someone who could raise dragons from the dead and make it invincible to scorpion bolts and could then set said raised dragon on the capital ... if only
It's ok, they have an Arya ;)
MonarchVincent yeah not gonna lie we could kinda use this guy right now although I probably can assassinate Cersei without him
You were the chosen one! How did you blow that 3-1 lead with 20 seconds on the clock my King?
iera I forgot to bring my plot armour unlike everyone else I just my regular armour ... such a stupid mistake but it cost me the entire game
Hahaha, I thought of this. They need an alliance with the Army of the Dead. 😂
That look tho..
That last look is what Jon snow gave to Ramsey Bolton before BoB.
And yes, next episode we're defo gonna see an Fully armored dragon.
Heir of Slytherin
I freaking hope so
I also hope the dragon gets loose again!
@@elzachavira4743 yeah just burn them all
I really don't think armor will mean anything against those weapons. Aren't dragon scales stronger than any armor already? Isn't that why weapons as powerful as the scorpions are needed in the first place?
@@ItsXetren that'll give some level of protection.
Drogon will be in full armor. Otherwise Euron wouldn't have gave that shocking look at the end of ep5 trailer
@@ItsXetren unless you suggest there are more dragons, that would explain the shocked look
Jon snow is nothing like Robert Baratheon though. Robert was a depressed man with PTSD. Jon is a merciful ruler who will listen to his advisors and inspire the people
Corey Burkeen I do agree that comparing Jon to Robert is unfair. I don’t think he be a good king though. Let me repost a comment I made on that subject
I don’t get why people think that Jon can be a good king. He too much like Ned they both have no idea how to play the game how to play politics or how to rule. Hell Jon was killed for being to honorable at the nights watch. How the hell is he gonna rule over 7 kingdoms when he couldn’t lead a small military order without getting betrayed. He a terrible judge of character. He always trust the wrong people. Telling sansa just shows that he isn’t able to read people. Anyone with any sense of how to play the game would have known that she wouldn’t keep that secret.He can’t control his own Sister how will he control an whole kingdom. I love his character a lot but he only respected in the north not though out the 7 kingdoms
What part of he refuses don't anybody understands?
Robert did not suffer from PTSD. Robert lives and breaths war. The whole reason why he became fat is because he ushered in an era of peace. An era where people like him were no longer needed.
@John Something Yep. Even Lyanna Stark knew Robert "would not keep to one bed" since she knows about his bastard in the eryie even before they were promised to each other. Jon would never father a bastard. He knows how much that would suck for his child.
@@thomaschristopherwhite9043 - Yeah, that's why it doesn't make much sense that he was sleeping with Dany. Honorable Jon would have refused to have such relationship without a marriage (it was different with Ygritte, beacuse the wildlings have other rules about that). And that's also why Brienne would have been very proud to be a virgin. In those times it wasn't supposed to be a shame, but an honor. She was an unmarried woman, so she hadn't slept around with anyone. I mean, that's what is in tune with her character. I don't see why they are pushing our modern lifestyle in characters which belong to a different mindset (of course Tormund would be looking for a woman, and a lot of the other people, but not Westerosi characters who are renown for their honor). All those Northern women offering themselves to men in the feast of Winterfell would have been very dishonorable (Podrick is supposed to be a squire who wants to become an honorable Knight), and Sansa (as the Lady of Winterfell) would have been trying to avoid that situation in a feast hosted by her. (It's different if it had happened in a brothel, but they were in the Main Hall of Winterfell).
Sansa wasn't judging Daenerys because of her fathers past, but because she refused to give them any confirmation on the status of the North after she takes the Iron Throne.
The Starks have suffered so much because of that throne. Sansa's grandfather, uncle, father, aunty, mother and two brothers were killed because of politics and she's afraid the honourable Jon will be next.
The North dont want to be governed by a far away monarch.
I don't think anyone blames Daenerys for all the grief and pain she's feeling, but her family's history of mental illness and her dragon makes her very dangerous.
Lastly, I just want to say that Rhaegal dying was Daenerys fault. She can't be blamed for Vyserion...but how could she not see Euron's army from the sky?
Why did they think a Queen inside a protected castle and 50k+ soldiers would somehow surrender?
They should've used the meeting as a distraction for a raid party to enter King's Landing and destroy the huge Crossbows - saving Misande in the process.
Ahmed Jama I don’t think she expected them to surrender, but it was the better thing to do to give them the opportunity. Unlike everyone in the comment section, I honestly hope Daenerys just storms in, fire blasting. Innocents die in war, that’s what it’s been like since the beginning. Yeah, I can’t deny that she’s become power hungry, but can you blame her? Since she ate that heart, she changed. Her goal has been the iron throne for the longest time now, and now people are angry that she’s going to do one horrible thing (like one of the Normies stated) for, in her eyes, the greater good? To save millions over a few thousand? Cersei already fills the roll of the mad Queen, Daenerys’ anger is justified. While her actions may be brutal and terrible, they make sense for her role.
I was saying the same thing
32:45 I have to disagree with marketa and navi. And I'm happy Suraj and Pat defended Sansa. They're right. Sansa doesn't have to fight to be a worthy ruler. Dany doesn't fight either she just charges in with her dragons. Sansa is smart and actually knows how to play the game, she was the only one who actually asked the right questions and thought about the little important stuff(how to feed the armies, etc.). That's what a ruler does. Just because you're good fighter doesn't mean you're a good ruler, example: Robert Baratheon. And also Sansa did defend the people int the crypts together with tyrion, they just cut that out.
they cut it out meaning we dont see it meaning it isnt canon/didnt actually happen.
I agree with almost everything you say besides the crypts part. However I have to say that I don’t get Sana’a goal. She a smart person so she had to realize Jon bending the knee was the easiest way to get her army to back them up against the night king. She knows that her dad got kill for being too honorable so why does she want Jon to be king. He too honorable for his own good as well and will get eaten Alive as king. Besides that all that talk for taking care of family kind of feels empty considering that she is driving a wedge between Jon and the women he loves. That really crappie especially when you realize that little finger did the same with her mother and aunt. I just don’t get what she trying to do. What is she trying to gain by telling the dwarf (can’t spell name too lazy to go look) about Jon true parents. If you got an answer I would be willing to listen but I can’t figure it out.
Ps you are correct about fighting ability having no effect on how good of a ruler you are 👍
@@hdhdhedhdh986 Many things happen off screen and are still canons.
What do we see on the screen:
-Sansa take out her dagger, Tyrion take out his, they look at each other and then get up.
-Tyrion & Sansa making their way through the crypt, finding Varys and children and then continuing to move on.
-Tyrion and Sansa alone face to wights' corpses when the battle is over, then the women and the children who join them.
What does that mean? They went out trying to kill wights.
We don't know if they really killed them but we know at least they tried.
Now the cut scene does allow us to understand that they have killed some wights. Even if we decide to not take it as a cannon, the idea is already there that they standed up against the threat. That's all.
Tywin wasnt a king but everyone recognized he was basically in charge and he literally didnt fight. He was just smart.
My thoughts exactly! And Sansa and the North has a lot to gain if Jon became King. Aside from being half Stark, Jon understands the North and its ways. Furthermore, Jon as King would permanently bring the North into the fold, and Sansa will be certain that the ruler from the Iron Throne would not antagonize the Starks. Jon also has something in him that makes people follow him, like Rhaegar. I don't like Jon that much, though, but if it meant permanent security for the North and a mentall-stable ruler, albeit stupid and reckless, I'd root for him as well.
Marketa is giving Daenerys way to much credit.
When did Daenerys prove to be good ruler?
She is a conqueror and people in Essos admired her because she ended slavery.
Exactly. Dany without her advisors is no better alternative. She's a conqueror not a ruler
Ending slavery is a huge thing, at least for me it was, that's what made me love her character even more. Maybe not for some others but for me that shit was amazing
Yeah that’s what Dario told her.. foreshadowing much?
She did good at Mereen. How can Varys and shit know that Jon is a good ruler when he's never been one??
Exactly my words. As we could have seen this season she doesn't really care if the people get something to eat, if her soldiers are able to fight or even if she kills innocent people. People are following her because most of them are scared of her. But she never really got the North - because people there are not afraid, they are great warriors - that really proves something, doesn't it?
Sansa not being able to fight doesnt disqualify her from being a leader
right? Dany fought one on one for two minutes
@@johnnyskinwalker4095 and she must be some badass xena warrior since she didnt die in the field against wights alone.
Danny Jeter Sr. Yeah the only reason Dany was out there fighting the night king is because she was on a dragon lol
Danny Jeter Sr. Exactly! What the fuck was that all about
So fucking dumb lmao.... sansa is literally Littlefinger + Cersei 2.0
Do they fight fuck no she is a politician she is the wildcard she’s gonna do something...
The way the 2 girls are coming st sansa is so fucking dumb...
We all know dany has become power hungry for the throne and we all know this isn’t good. Anyone who says I’m the queen isn’t the queen.. this is why jon will get it or someone else
"Cersei, your enemies have stupidly approached within range of our giant crossbows and with one volley we can wipe all of them out, end this war, and the iron throne will be yours forever."
Cersei: "Behead her personal assistant."
.... Ummm, starting a battle there still puts Cersi at risk. And that's obviously not the entire army
@@ChainsGone2012 With the last dragon gone, all her top advisors and Danny herself being dead would put an end to this war quickly and Cersei could easily go down to safety, by the time the other forces would ever arrive there.
Daenarys is no longer an ideal ruler. The whole point of the Slavers Bay was her making moral concession to be an effective ruler. There was some point in Mereen where she was, but that time is over probably after killing the leader of the slaves. Her ideology REEKS of tyranny. Especially after hearing her saying it was her "destiny" to rule the 7 Kingdoms. She no longer has the best interests of the common people at heart. The second she brings dragons to the Red Keep and murders innocents to take the throne she is no longer capable of "breaking the Wheel" shes' just more of the same as Jon said.
Jon is a way better option. You can say that he is like Robert Baratheon, but that simply isn't true. Robert was fundamentally disinterested in ruling, but wanted the throne anyways, Jon is disillusioned with ruling and DOESN'T WANT POWER. He's an effective leader, he's a war hero and like Varys said being a man and having the stronger claim (Son of the Prince vs Sister of the Prince) makes him a more favorable option to the lords of Westeros. That's why Jon is good as dead, because he stands in the way of Dany the Tyrannical. Sansa is right not to trust her shes' learned the political game while Jon hasn't and is far too idealistic.
MrMeddyman Jon is an idiot. He is very heroic and draws people to him and whatnot. He has the better claim and would be loved more by the people. However he does not make good decisions. He will end up just like Ned if he ends up ruling. The game would eat him up.
Lol, Marketa is the only one who still believes in Dany XD
Because the rest of us see that she is a blood thirsty tyrant who needs to get killed.
Kris Bacon go watch grayareas video might change your mind cause u must be stupid if u can’t see what way it’s going
@@krisbacon3495 lol, exactly. I don't know how the show is gonna unfold, but Dany's ideas are definitely fucked up right now (and they've been for quite a while actually)
@@thesellick9011 I dont understand how the five kings, Robert, and jon get people killed and sacrifice them left and right but Dany struggles to do that and finally decides not to do it and it makes her mad lol
@@thesellick9011 Relax keyboard warrior. Just cause someone has a different opinion to you doesn't mean you need to be all pissy about it. I have hated Danny for the last 3 seasons and want her gone. If you like Danny and want to see her on the Iron Throne then that's fine, that's your wish and opinion but doesn't mean everyone else who doesn't share it is 'stupid'.
The discussion was Marketa vs everyone else lol
She is getting more triggered than Dany herself lol
Lil Shake dany fan girls need to be muted.
@@Vball-Vidz oof
Lil Shake well i mean she’s wrong. Dany is wrong how does she not see that??
You have to feel for Dany though. Her campaign in Westeros has been a disaster, through no fault of her own. She lost half her army, half her allies, two of her children, and her legitimacy to the throne ever since she set foot on Westeros. She's not well-received despite doing her best for the people. The two closest people to her are gone. From her perspective, this might not have happened if she had just "burned them all". Tyrion was right in S5. Maybe she should have just stayed in Meereen.
What I disagree with Marketa's argument though is how she keeps putting a pro-female spin on Dany. Gender politics are not what either D&D or GRRM are trying to dispute with the story.
There's not actually that many mad Targaryens. Out of over 100 only 6 or 7 were mad. A lot through circumstances and some were questionably mad. E.g. all one did was dance naked.
Yeah but D&D really *needed* to go down THAT road with one of their only powerful female characters, I mean. We all know the men are more level-headed, that's the whole point of this episode!
Nora Girl have you heard of this female character who is an op badass assassin who saved all of humanity? also another female character who beat the hound in hand to hand combat and is one of the most strong and honorable characters in the show? they have a fair few powerful female characters lmao
@@MARYWTHER What are you even talking about?
Daenerys views power as her right and her pleasure, whether she is freeing people or avenging people. She can also be very impulsive. John views power as a responsibility and only a responsibility.
@Nora Girl
Daenerys..? Powerful female character? Daenerys has been a self-entitled, whiny bitch since the start. Brienne, Arya, Ygritte, those are some actually strong female characters. Daenerys is just an overgrown child who had immense luck and 3 dragons.
Also, Dani went up North and fought "their war" as much for herself as for them. If the Night King was not defeated, then there would be no kingdom to rule.
Very true
Lynnetta Pierce she went for love
lmao giving the NK a dragon is what fucked them up
And that means she deserves to rule?
Did Danny have a choice? You act as if Danny wanted to rule over an undead Westeros, the only time Danny agreed to fight the white walker was when she realized she had no choice and to conquer Westeros she would first have to conquer the white walkers. Before she saw the white walkers in person up north when she saved Jon, she wanted Jon to grab one not just to convince Cersei, but also to see it for herself. She even mentioned this. Once she saw they were real, she was saddened as her plans to take Kings Landing had to be put on hold since the real threat to her future throne was the Night King. Face it, she did it for herself. it wasn't "Their War" its more her war than anyone's.
I think Sana’a telling Tyrion was honestly the best thing that could’ve happened
or the worst
Sansa just proved house Stark is dead there is no honor left in house stark all of them are snakes now
homunculus7 I think the ‘honor’ Of House Stark died at the Red Wedding. Ned was honorable- he was killed for it. Robb and Catelyn trusted the Frey’s to be honorable when it came to the guest rights- it got them killed.
Sansa is still alive bc she’s smart. And besides she swore she wouldn’t tell what Jon told her, he didn’t tell her anything Bran did.
It doesn’t make her a “snake” and House Stark isn’t dead, not with the four of them still left- she’s trying to ensure they stay that way.
@@homunculus7 how is protecting your family by sharing who they are a bad thing? Dany keeps stating who she is and is willing to burn innocent people and everyone else keeps murdering innocent people. Starks are literally the only good house left who think about innocent people and protect their own
@@homunculus7 She's a snake for looking at Jon's best interests?? He is the rightful heir. And more level-headed than Dany.
Bran: I don’t want it
Sansa says nothing
Jon: I don’t want it
Sansa: oh shit this is going to be good!
Sansa actually did fight, they cut the scene out. Sorry I get triggered when people insult her. Also fighting doesn’t make you a good ruler, Robert was an amazing fighter who shitted on the realm. Also Arya saved the day. Also, regarding Jon not wanting the throne, another person who didn’t want the throne was Elizabeth 1st. She never expected to be on the throne, she was last in line, but when her sister died she was placed on the throne that wasn’t supposed to be hers and look what progress she made to England in her rule(also she is a women, I said that for Marketa). Varys is loyal to the realm because he use to be one of those people, he was at the bottom and saw how the lords and rulers didn’t give a fuck about the smaller people, so if he sees a ruler who puts their agenda above the good of the people he’ll pick a person he thinks cares about them(aka Jon who use to be at the bottom). I love you Marketa and Navi but Jon/Sansa would make a better Queen. Last point Missandei dying doesn’t mean Dany can burn innocent people(women/children/elderly).
Sansa is the biggest , stupidest bitch in all of Westeros.
kamran khan is she if Dany has listen to her she’d still have a dragon and Missadei
@@kamrankhandevil well the stupidest bitch in all the realm just got half of Danny's advisor's plotting against her
I think it's pretty ridiculous to push the whole 'Dany can't cause any casualties in this war!!! Mad Queeeen' rhetoric. What war doesn't result in innocents killed? Jon and Rob both beheaded and executed 'innocents'. Ned and Robert participated in many wars that resulted in the deaths of hundreds - and yet they're not shat on nearly as much as Dany for wanting to take out a literal mad queen who already burned down an entire Sept.
@John Something She's a protege of Cersei and Littlefinger. Does nobody actually pay attention to this show anymore?
Good Lord, Marketa went full on Dany stan after the episode. The WRITERS OF THE SHOW are telling you that Dany isn't in this for the good of the realm. They've shown that Dany wants the power too badly at this point and it's not for some honorable reason like helping people. Dany has stated countless times that she is the rightful ruler of these strangers because she has magic blood and dragons. And there is nothing to point to showing that Dany would be a great ruler. She is a great CONQUEROR (because dragons), but she hasn't successfully ruled anywhere. People who are stanning for Dany can ignore all of her many, many faults as much as they want, but the show writers are telling you how you should feel about her, and it's not good. In season 5 she BURNED AN INNOCENT MAN ALIVE AND FED HIS STILL LIVING BODY TO HER DRAGONS. He wasn't guilty of anything. She just wanted someone to confess to being in league with the Sons of the Harpy, so she burned this innocent man for no reason other than instilling fear into the other suspects she had (who ended up also being innocent).
Joshua F 👏🏻👏🏻SOMEONE👏🏻👏🏻FUCKING👏🏻👏🏻SAID IT👏🏻👏🏻
Joshua F AMEN
To be fair, you could argue that Jon wasn't a successful 'ruler' either. He technically betrayed the rules of the Night's Watch (they were bigoted rules, but still rules) and his men killed him for it. Jon is just as bad as 'playing the game' as Ned too, which is a needed skill in ruling if Jon doesn't want to be stabbed again. I feel like the show is simplifying the plot too much just so they can finish it up faster. They're clearly setting up Dany as a tragedy, Jon as a reluctant ruler (who will either be forced into the role, or will decline).
Plus, the 'innocent man' she burned alive was an upper classman of Mereen who would have owned slaves or directly profited from it, sooo not entirely innocent in my opinion lol
I'm not a stan of any character, but people have such a hate boner for Dany while praising Jon as a faultless, perfect ruler and it's pretty annoying. Both characters are flawed
You don't watch the behind the scenes segments, do you? NOTHING the writers have said indicates anything you just blathered on about.
Exactly! I mean, the hints begin earlier in the seasons, yet all of the stans keep saying how wonderful Dany is... Her first solutions in almost any case was to burn cities to the ground... She began with Astapor and even in Mereen Tyrion had to persuade her to keep calm... then also in s7 she attacked Tyrion in front of everyone and Jon was the one to convince her to not fly to KL (a stranger, by the way). Dany is an interesting character because she is not mad (not yet anyway), but she fells entitled and destined to glory. Also the fact of having 3 huge dragons is pretty damn cool. But, as a queen, she did a terrible job, and, instead of learning from her mistakes, she decide to claim the power over a continent that doesn't miss her at all.
And another thing that really piss me off is the fact that fans say that she saved the north! Like?! WTF? Without Dany and Jon working together, the north will never survive but neither ALL of Westeros! Alse I want to point out that the Queen/King of the 7K is also the *protector of the realm* so, what? Daenerys saved herself and all of her people going north.
Sansa, as others have pointed out, did fight as best as she could with Tyrion in the cripts. Sadly those idiots (D&D) decided to cut it. Anyway Sansa is defending her home and the North independence. She never said no to destroy Cercei, she only doesn't want her country to submit. And it is possible, it's called alliance. You help each other without losing your sovereignty. The Vale helped in the BoB but never ask anything in return. It's not that difficult!
Another thing: Dany and Jon have a toxic relationship, based solely on what she wants. She asked Jon to lie all his life and to erase what he is, because she fell threatened. But what about Jon? Why should he say yes after all he have already sacrificed for her?!
I think that Sansa is afraid of the future and that is why she choose to break the promise. The moment she understands that Tyrion is afraid of Daenerys, she understand that Dany can't sit on the IT and therefore decide to "betray" Jon's trust. She also risked a lot telling Tyrion, because he could have gone to Dany and reveal that Jon told the truth to his family. Instead Tyrion told the truth to the right person. I love that Varis is a player again
10:14 D&D creaming their pants because of the 'I did not expect this' remark
EXPECTATIONS = *SUBVERTED*
Yeah lets fuck over GRRM......
They nerfed the fuck out of dragons.
Unless magic is involved the only way to pierce a dragon is with a bolt in the eye....alle of those BOLTS that hit Rhaegal should have been scratches to the neck and chest.... not going through the fucking skin completely.
BULLSHIT
@@jojo243 quality writing)
iera stop watching simple
@@nhoodjazz how old are you?
32:53 Marketa: No one is defending Cersei here she's a piece o-
Pat: I am defending her 😂
Jay 510 because pat’s an even bigger piece of shit 😜
PostApocalypticMasochist there’s a difference between a piece of shit and a troll lmao. I may not agree with the things he says but he’s my favourite because he just doesn’t not give a shit😂
So disappointed with Marketa and Navi regarding their comments about Sansa. I understand why they sympathize with Dany more (but in general I disagree about her deserving to be the queen of the Iron Throne), but Sansa not being able to physically fight doesn't mean that she will not be a good ruler (or adviser).
Also, they are saying people is attracted to Jon because he is a man vs. Dany, but let's not forget that many people are also loyal to Sansa even though she's a woman. The unfortunate thing about Dany is that she's a foreigner in Westeros and that she lost a lot after fighting in Winterfell. Many people outside Westeros love Dany because she saved/freed them. However, in Westeros, she is not their savior, and people will most likely not see her as a savior when she burns King's Landing and go all mad queen. The circumstance is not in favor of Dany but in my opinion, that doesn't give her an extra point in being the "most deserving" ruler of Westeros.
Currently, Dany incites fear while Jon inspires people, so naturally, people flock to Jon more.
Not trying to discredit Jon, but you do have to consider that many of those people who flock to Jon end up dying (not without purpose or for a good cause) but he doesn't have the best record for keeping his fighters alive. His tactics are pretty deadly to both his enemies and to his allies.
@@papatron8131 true but so did Robert, Stannis, Renly, Rob, Jon all have got thousands killed but Dany does it and shes mad lmao
I agree that Sansa is not a fighter and it's understandable that she stays in the crypts and lets everyone fight. But when you're sitting and letting everyone fight for you, looking like the ungrateful one afterwards is not a good look. Arya, who is the hero of the battle, even said that while she distrusts Dany she still pays respect to Dany and Sansa looks like even taking 5 seconds of her day to pay Dany any respect is so impossible for her (while Dany lost most of her army and a dragon to the Army of the Dead).
@@acesonfire yeah. Also, Jon is too self sacrificing sometimes that he loses tactics and reason. At this point, I don't even know who needs to sit on the iron throne, that is if they continue being a monarch.
@@plunderness i agree with you too regarding Sansa being disrespectful and ungrateful. That's Sansa's fault, for not even pretending to be polite to Dany at least. Her blatant display of distrust/dislike towards Dany is one of her flaws in "playing the game of thrones". I remember Jon (earlier this season?) saying that Sansa thinks she's wiser than everybody. That may be true but rubbing it in other people's faces will definitely not be taken well. Lol.
About Sansa letting other people fight for her, like I said previously, I think she knows that she has mental power rather than physical one. I'm defending Sansa (vs Dany) in this regard because Dany's advantage is her dragons (and the magic in her blood), and she let's other people fight for her too. I also think Sansa is aware that people like a ruler who can physically fight for them, someone like Jon. For all intents and purposes, Sansa is biased to Jon because he is family and because through Jon, she can somehow lead.
Not so related but this episode of Game of Thrones is making us think a lot about what truly is a good leader, and that for me is what makes this a good episode. Tyrion and Vary's conversation will make you agree with them both but also confused on whose side to take.
I can’t see how people don’t realize that Dany won’t be a better ruler than Jon. Hell Sansa would be a better ruler than both of them. Dany is really entitled tbh.
Proj3ctX1 ikr. Dany is a conqueror not a ruler.
Sansa cant even keep a secret pls
@@devilovesdevil At this point Sansa trusts no one. Ironically it's HER OWN character on the books who says "a queen who trusts no one is as foolish as a queen who trusts everyone". Like? What happened to her character? This whole xenophobic agenda to push woman against woman is just the worst, and people are eating this shit and they're like "yehhhh!!! this is totally good and consistant writing!!!!"
@@devilovesdevil she didn't keep the secret because thousands of people can die under dany's rule. plus she wasn't saying it just to anyone. she knows tyrion is a smart man and will do the right thing. quite honestly, she even knows she can get them both killed for plotting against dany
@@MARYWTHER Xenophobic? Wuut, she is being reasonable, even if Jon is a dumbass he's a less worst ruler than the Mad Queen. Also, it was pretty obvious that she would tell someone.
Imagine the person who claims to love you asks you to hide your entire identity (something that has been an entire show/character journey worth of issues for Jon) just so that they can continue to acquire power. All that after they threaten your sister, refuse to listen to her military advice, and continue showing paranoid reactionary actions. And fwiw, Sansa did fight. The clip was cut, but it was still heavily implied.
Sansa and Cersei the only ones playing right the GoT.
Seriously. Only two I can see sitting on the throne.
Exactly!
true and the rest are fighting lol
23:10 it's not like "everyone, bow before me" is the greatest first impression she could be giving to be fair
What people love about Jon is his humility
Varys is actually right. He serves the people not the ruler. How is anyone against that notion? Dang straight up said she don’t care if innocents die. How are people supporting her for that?
Ik people are honestly dumb as fuck. I don’t get why anyone wants to support her. Cersei > Dany no lie. The Dany supporter on the right is fucking blind and dumb
King James yeah for sure.
@@KingJames-pw3pm Cersei, the Queen who is using her people as a shield, is morally superior to Dany?
King James lol Cersei doesn’t care about her people. She never did.
ANDSTONE100 Cersei > Dany is just my opinion because I like her character more. Dany has been better but is becoming a tyrant, something she said she wants to rid the world of. All Dany cares about is the throne and has to say her list of fucking names to everyone. Tywin once said “any man who must say I am the king is no true king” same goes for queens
Also it’s not that Dany wasn’t patient. In her eyes she just feels like she’s late to the throne. If you think about it she could have had the iron throne for months by now. If Jon wasn’t rushing her to fight the dead and the northmen came further south for a little bit. She could’ve taken the iron throne before the golden company arrived, and after they did arrive they could’ve contracted them to help them against the dead.
That would have been the worst thing to do. They would have not had time to fight that war, evacuate people, and then hold themselves at KL. The night king would have further strengthened his army on his way South. The golden company wouldn't have fought for Daeny.
They couldn't risk losing all the population in the North, who would then become soldiers of the Dead Army.
Anyway, I think it would have been better if all of them stayed for a time in the North and rested, and nurse Rhaegal back to full health. Of course Cersei was getting strong in the South, she had betrayed the alliance she had promised Dany. So our Targaryen girl is now in a weaker position. Just admit it and wait up North, send scouts and assassins to the South and develop a long term strategy. And I would have assumed Dragonstone taken by her enemies. I don't know why she would suppose that it would just stay there for her if left undefended. She would have left a Castellan with a small force, and the Castellan would have reported her that Euron was around, or more likely, that Dragonstone was hers no more.
"Don't choose Wiolence!" I love that constant callback to Navi's pronunciation. :) Great reaction to this episode, anyway. One of your very best.
the compression between jon and he will be like robert brathion is dump marketa 23:00 i dont know what you were watching but jon is more ned stark than ned stark himself and he was a king and everyone liked him thats nothing to do with genders even varys saw it
Lol Ned stark is dead and he loved because he did his job well but the moment he left north he was done for
Idk why the show forcing this " Robert was wrong for starting a war " thing , like did the show fans know that Rhaegar was selfish and deadbeat who left his wife and children unprotected, and Robert started the war after the Mad king killed Ned's brother and father. So Robert has every right to start a rebellion
She's really annoying with that gender shit.
"Its not what the people want" lmao what? Literally everyone wants him to be King... all people have talked about this entire episode is Jon being a better ruler! The only one who doesnt want him to rule is Dany
yeah she kinda went full feminist in that discussion lol
there is something that will give jon more claim not just he is a man but beacuse he can marry and have kids which will give the realm more peace than dany who cant have kids varys also point that out to tyrion
Varys has had enough of unworthy & crazy rulers & he SAW what Dany's dad did.....jus sayin....he also knew & admired Ned Stark.....
Did u now know that Varys was actually working to make her dad more paranoid and making him madder since day one. Varys has no loyaltys and is always looking for ways for him to have more power and control which us why he wants Jon since Jon is weak willed
@@homunculus7 book Varys is different from show Varys
@@homunculus7 That is book Varys, who is far different. Book Varys hasn't really exposed his true intentions.
@@Eshayzbra96 the problem with that is that Martin said that the show is based on his vision
@@houseofaction Yes, before the show was no longer his vision.
Cersei is somehow more terrifying then the Night King
because Arya aint there yet
Fred Carmichael THATS WHAT IVE BEEN SAYING!!!!!!
Coz the night king did jack shit
than* come on its not that hard!
I can't believe this is what it has come to. Fuck 'this war of five kings means nothing' and the long night and the ancient evil that made it so kings froze in their castles.
I feel like the Tormund conversation meant something, like Jon will end up back at the wall
yeap he will
Maester Aemon taught both Jon and Sam a lot. That is exactly what Aemon did, in favor of his beloved brother.
hahaha nice try. You have read the leaks and are now trying to appear "profound" by "guessing" Jon's endgame. ahahahahha
That’s how the shows gonna end after Jon kills dany calling it now
Aida Aman you’re rude, good look in life with that attitude. You know nothing about me to make an accusation like that. I said what I saw and thought. Good luck being miserable
" It doesn't matter what the people want! "
Sounds like something Hitler believed. 😂😂😂
All tyrants*
A true democracy is literally the people wanting their leader, lol
Yeah, someone was definitely not like the others here. Everyone else has something interesting to say, and this chick is just seething about sexism in a show set in a medieval fantasy world. Get over it already, I can see she's probably riding the brotha man running the show. Props to everyone but her.
@Trentsum exactly! I was shocked she neglected all the facts rendering Jon the better leader and tried to narrow down the whole discussion with @23:42 "it's just about the fucking cock!".
Nailed it!!!! She was such a Dani "Stan". Glad the mad queen got what was coming to her.
@@sourdough_ak998 I could not have said it better than you just put.
Sansa fought in the Crypts with Tyrion but they cut the scene. And even if she didn't, being a good fighter doesn't make one a better ruler, Robert Baratheon is the biggest example of that!
Jory El Azouazi you saw it??
Oh my lord Marqueta...
Dany is very much turning into a mad queen, if we hadn't followed her from season 1, and instead from season 7 and beyond, she would be a full on villain at this point. She doesn't deserve the throne because she wants it, thats not how it works, like Chris pointed out, Varys makes sense in saying its better that someone that doesn't want it should get it, they dint want it for the power, they'll be king or queen because its their duty to serve.
Honestly, looking back she's been awful since the end of season one. They frame it that she's a hero but Mirri had as much of a right to hate Dany as anyone. Her village was destroyed, her people raped and murdered and Dany expect loyalty for not letting the rape continue?
Too bad it didnt matter since bran became king by manipulating everyone 😂
Don't have a good Name that’s not really right. I followed the show from season 7 and only knowing major plot points from previous seasons. Dany doesn’t give an impression of a “full on villain,” she seems heroic in fact. The entire season 7, she was fighting against Cersei, saved Jon crew from north of the wall and in season 8, aid the north against the dead.
I did notice her self entitled attitude every now and then, but i brushed it off on grounds that the powerful in GOT are also generally self entitled. Besides, her arguments aren’t entirely wrong most of the times.
That being said, *i am not a Dany stan* - just stating out facts here so u might benefit from another perspective.
Alicia Ann Well that’s the issue, in the earlier seasons her entire dialogue is “I’m the heir to the Iron Throne so I will get what’s mine” and achieved this through getting to have her own dragons as well as advisors that would give their lives to her.
Don't have a good Name LOL, looks like the dragons are the only redeeming thing of Daenerys Targaryen.
Though I do hope the her madness was better depicted in the last season. I was confused as hell. And i don’t buy the writers’ understanding on Dany’s psyche descent to madness. It could have been way more compelling if done successfully and she could have had an amazing one-of-a-kind villain arc, considering where she stood in season 1.
Sansa on the other hand is a character who's grown from being a dumb kid who wanted to marry a king and live a fairy tale life into someone who really cares about her family and her people and at the same time is smart and knows how to play the game. So if want to root for someone who can be considered a "good" character then you should root for Sansa. Jon is alright too I guess.
She's a god damn nationalist and I love it
I keep seeing Sansa support for the IT
But do you guys really think she wants to go back to that stinking city? She is a northerner 100%
Fuck sansa such a boring character
charles bronson Not in my books! Her journey of survival and lessons learned from Cersei, Margery, and Little Finger.. culminating info the cunning politician she became is my favorite story arch of the series! I mean, the show is called Game of Thrones! She played the game and won!
I think if anyone other than Sansa would've told Khaleesi to wait a little bit , she would've but you know when someone you dont like tells you to do something and you just not gonna do it just bcs they said it
Daenerys is greedy, her obsession is the iron throne and she wants it as soon as possible
You're right. Dany is very childish and she won't ever do what Sansa says because she doesn't like her. Maybe if Jon wasn't such a dumb asslicker of hers he could've listened to his sister and try to make Dany change her mind since she actually listens to him. Tyrion is smart too and he knew that Sansa was right but he wouldn't question D since he's afraid of her... Such a mess
That's why she isn't a good queen. She should take good advice no matter who it comes from. Even Sansa knows this. Sansa who dislikes her was willing to provide her with really good advice to help her out and Dany just goes against her and loses a dragon and her most loyal adviser.. Great job
@@A12-n9u2x I feel like Jon and Dany balance each other out and keep each other from falling victim to their own selves. Jon's naivety and Dany's impatience. Sansa could be a great advisor to them both if only she didn't have that little bit of Cersei about her. I feel like it was good that she learned from Cersei, but she kinda allowed it to also infect her a bit. Don't forget that most everything that happened to Sansa also happened to Dany too. Freedom stolen, Sold and raped, lied to and manipulated by people they thought they could trust....
@@acesonfire i think she could still advise them but they won't listen. both of them keep ignoring her and she always ends up being right. that's what is making her seem more like cersei. if only they followed what she says, everything would be better.
Sorry Markéta, I gotta agree with the others on this one. Right now, Dany cares more about power than she does the people. The route she's going, no, she wouldn't be the best ruler. I wish that weren't the case.
Also didn't ANYONE else notice that there seemed to be only one dragon left on the sigil in, the last frame of, the opening theme? That was a major hint right there.
Really and why is that exactly? Let's see the facts, she stopped the slavery and destroyed their business, she conquer their main City, and in the process she used the minimum of force. She's pressing her claim because with out that power everything she's been trough is for nothing, with out power she cannot realize any of her goals. And cares about people more, Varys, Sansa, give me a break.
Also did you forget about coming to North with all of their forces and dragons.
While I do agree that, right at this moment, Dany is far from fit to rule, it's definitely not all about power anymore. Not after Rhaegal and Missandei's deaths. At this point what Dany cares about is revenge. What she is feeling right now is a mother's grief and rage. And she has every right to feel that way.
@@DerLetzteMonarch Let's wait and see.
@@stevem2323 she only did that because she knew she would have to fight the dead either in the north or the south. That doesn't make her fit to rule! Someone deciding to act out of self interest, even if that benefits other people, isn't some sign of a good and just ruler. She's obbsessed with power, and is willing to kill thousands of innocent civilians to get it.
17:28 He Knows What That Sounds Like Because He Heard The Screams Of Burning Alive When Cersei Blew Up The Sept Of Baelor
You guys ignored the most important part of the Danny vs jon debate, Bran. He doesn’t trust her, he sees everything, he knows she isn’t best for the throne, which is why he made Sam tell him. Sam also made a huge point when he tells him. He bent the knee to save his people and do what’s best for them, but would she? Jon sided with tyrion and wants to blockade Kings landing and cut off the food, let the people over throw cersi, that’s the difference, Jon want to exhaust every option and protect as much life as possible, Danny only cares about the throne. A good side note, her claim to the throne is completely reliant on Jon not existing, and the fact she would suppress who he is instead of standing behind the true heir to the throne tells you everything you need to know
Too bad Melisandre and Thoros are dead, a dragon getting resurrected by the Lord of Light would be kinda sick...and fitting for Jon 😱
even if they were alive, the lord of light would have no need or reason to bring them back. his battle has been fought.
ShastaMusic who Knows? The dragon might still be alive
@@Adrian-rb4qp, That's actually the vibe I got. I didn't even believe it was happening to begin with, felt more like a dream. I know a few of them mentioned that the dragon was dead, but I never really felt it was definite.
Adrian It literally pierced its neck....It’s dead.
Lel Uchiha yeah ik but it felt a bit odd since cercei asked Euron, and he looks rather suprised in the trailer
Daenerys hasn't proven that she can rule though. In Meereen as soon as she came up against resistance she started burning random nobles alive and completely lost control of the situation.
And she had to be stopped by Tyrion before destroying the city.
Facts, the same slaves she "saved" rebelled against her because she couldn't respect their traditions.
Random nobles, please stop with this ignorance. Those people she burned were just in battle with her. That fact that she gave them an option life or death was more than lenient. Who would you prefer cerise who blew up a whole sept, and proven how mad she really is.
Plus she publicly beheaded their leader that she appointed to her leadership council for killing the Son of the Harpy, who were terrorists threatening the innocent of the city, former slaves, their protectors, and Daenerys herself.
She doesn't know how to rule or lead. She was a Khaleesi because she was married to Drogo. She took over slavers Bay but she was losing control. She takes one city and loses control of another. She had great advisers, but she was so impulsive and didn't always listen. The Unsullied followed her because she freed them because she has a Dragon, and the Dothraki followed her because she survived fire. She never did anything herself. She relies on her advisers, unable to make decisions of her own. All she had were slaves. There are no slaves in Westeros. They have no reason to flock to Dany. Not the North, not any of the Kingdoms.
Jon wouldn't turn out like Robert. Jon is a leader and Robert was a badass soldier that smashed people with a war hammer.
I'm surprised Euron didn't question how Tyrion knew she had a child. If I was Euron I'd be questioning her from there on
I imagine he will bring it up in the next episode
He was just talking to Qyburn who might have told him.
It will be mentioned again.
@@starfusion76 Cersei told Tyrion about the child long ago, and if he did tell him Tyrion wouldn't believe it. It would be Jaime's, I believe even Jaime confirmed it.
@@GamingWithRobbie I know. I was talking about what Euron might think. As far as he knows, Qyburn might've told Tyrion when they were talking.
The girl 2nd from the far right is such a danny stan.
Its crazy how she fell for the mad queen. Glad Dani got what was coming this season.
Danny is slowly snapping, each dragons death pushes her closer to panic, and now she’s lost her right hand. PLUS the people love jon more than her, she’s officially lost her damn mind.
Also I think the show is baiting us with jon snow, those farewells is too obvious, they want us to think jon snow is dead especially after what Sansa has said but Sansa revealing the secret is her attempt to save jon/ take down danny. If Danny didn’t have dragons what does she actually bring? She has a savior complex and the more dragons she loses the more she realizes her “destiny” is out of her hands.
Id of snapped already
taylor lyn Exactly its pissing me off how their making it out like she's the crazy one, She should have burned kings landing down from when she first arrived with all of her dragons
Trap Star agreed. Tyrion and Varys are Cersei’s secret weapon.
Trap Star what show are you watching? You want danny to burn kings landing down? Are you dumb?
gingerbreadman burn it down
How can people even think for 1 second that Danny would be a better ruler than Jon snow oO That's beyond me and i don't even think Jon would be a really good ruler xD
@What About That is one of the stupidest assumptions i've heard. Do you even comprehend the definition of being a feminist? Cercei is a "girl power female", do you see women rooting for her?
What About Extremely wrong there. Daenerys would be a shit ruler everyone except the two chicks on the right see that.
Dany is crazy and Jon is stupid. Pick your poison!
@@avangelinecollett3962 how many years did Cersie rule hardly months how many years did Robert the fool ruled over decade
The tension during the discussion was much more than in the episode. Damn.
The biggest reason Jon will turn on Danny is because she more than likely will order the deaths of Sam, Bran and Sansa and Arya. I can see her willing to kill all who had a hand in telling the truth. That is the only way I could see Jon killing the MAD QUEEN. No one wants it, but it seems that is where she will go.
After Missandei died everyone was like “fuck this shit” that’s the one person that wasn’t allowed to die. They built such a lovable character for 6 seasons for that heartbreak. Damn that hurt,
One point about Jon having a better claim because he's a man. This is completely wrong. Jon has a better claim because he is the son and heir of the firstborn child. There probably still is a rule that men will inherit over women but in this case it is irrelevant as Rhaegar was the oldest of the children and Jon his son. The crown goes down generations not horizontally across.
The show wasn't saying Jon has a better claim because he's a man, it's true that he's further along in succession than Dany; the point is that a lot of people, high-ranking ones at that, would choose him over her simply because they think a man is better capable of ruling due to their own bias (regardless of history or actions they've taken to prove themselves worthy of the throne). Personally, I don't think Jon or Dany would make a good ruler.
The Faith of the Seven doesn't allow polygamy. A strong argument could be made that Jon is Rhaegar's bastard despite the wedding ceremony because Rhaegar already had a wife.
@@MissMusicForYou I agree but I wanted to clarify for those who take it to be due to that
Seamus Dowling But didn’t Rhaegar also simultaneously annulled his marriage with Elia?
@@JackulaHD Ah okay, noted.
You're not allowed to be a "Savior from Wight Walker threat" if you're the one who gave them ability to get past the Wall in a first place.
Yeah right. She should have listened to tyrion and let the men who went to capture the dead die. Instead she went to save them and got her dragon killed.
@John Something place dotraki and unsullied with dragonglass arrows on top of the wall. Combine this shit with dragons and they will never pass.
Fucking 100 Crows hold back 100 000 wildlings for a day. With her army slow walkers ain't even a threat.
@@karthiknarayanan3705 could have placed some old man who's about to die, or a murderer/rapist (dead) behind the wall and wait for him to be reanimated.
Since no one else is saying it, Rana is just sitting there casually like she just came from the gala and she looks STUNNING ✨
Dany Is about To go full Carrie on Cersei, and I can't wait for it. Right after her Pumpkin Spice Latte at Ye Olde Star(k)buck.
God Marketa was obnoxious, interrupting Nahid twice, without even apologising, jeez.
She's gotten annoying since that John Wick 3 trailer.
Sansa wants the North to be independent like her & Robb fought for. But now this foreigner comes & tells them she's their queen & if they refuse they're in rebellion. All she cares about is the North, her people and her family. I don't think she wants any throne but the one in the North.
Also, Sansa wasn't trained to fight so I can't hold that against her. Dany only fights on a dragon, an option Sansa doesn't have.
Charlene Raymond totally agree. Sansa has learned from the best. Cersei And Littlefinger taught her how to play the game and she’s the only one who has Political experience. Dany has liberated slaves across the sea but their isn’t any slavery in Westeros. Also her rule in Mareeen was filled with a lot of bloodshed and she struggled to keep hold of her power. Dany dosnt have a lot of political experience in Westeros, it’s different it’s about loyalty or the illusion of loyalty and power. Jon may not want to be king But that just might be what Westeros needs. Sansa already asked Dany what happens to the North. And Dany didn’t answer. That’s a problem to Sansa and Arya. The North ruled itself for thousands of years and the Targaryens only had power b/c of Dragons. Aegon was a conqueror and now So is Dany. She’s an outsider and it’s been made very apparent in this episode.
@@mjgorgeous I actually think Dany could be a good leader for the Iron Throne once the war is over of she keeps her emotions in check. I just don't think the North should have to be part of that. I don't want to see Jon on there (though he might be my fav) because he would HATE it. I think she might have given the throne to Gendrey this episode by accident though...
This independence of the North was still a possibility, Dany was capable of handing the North the sort of independence Dorne has despite still being part of the seven kingdoms. Sansa questioned Dany again about the Northern independence the moment they started to form some form understanding, a question she didn't have an answer for right then. Daenerys isn't some foreign ruler who's come to take their lands by force, she's a ruler who is trusted by the "King in the North", a ruler who has stopped her cause to help them fight in the real war. Arya doesn't trust Daenerys but she still gave her credit where it's due for involvement in the war against the dead, Sansa on the other hand couldn't stomach accepting the fact that they needed her. Sansa has no real reason for her dislike for Daenerys, her writing in this conflict is head scratching and her character has become a contrarian for the sake of being one, she disagrees with suggestions and plans but doesn't offer any alternative.
Charlene Raymond very true but Dany it seems that they are making it very hard for Dany to check her emotions and I will agree to that. She is in mourning and now just lost her bff, but I don’t think the North should be part of the 7 kingdoms anymore. They’ve earned that right. And I agree acknowledging Gendry in public like that gave him open claim to the throne should Dany fail.
ANDSTONE100 also agree. They are making conflict were is isn’t needed but give audience something to talk about. I would have hoped by now Sansa could have at least accepted that Jon is in love with Dany and will go south but I think she and Arya are just a bit worried since their father and brother died playing the game. Jon is honest and honorable but that’s just Jon, no one is going to play nice in the South and Sansa seen that first hand. Im at least hoping she’s playing the family card cuz if not then all this is just extra drama.
Danny wasn't supporting Jon. If she hadn't gone north, she would've had to deal with the dead eventually later, only much more of them. So she wasn't being altruistic.
Dany isn't a good ruler... She had a hard time in Essos, if she rules in Westeros it'll just be much worse. She's a great conqueror though. She kinda takes after Aegon the Conqueror... she rode a dragon to Westeros, etc. etc. But being a good conqueror doesn't make you a good ruler.
Navi and Marketa canne be so bias towards Dany to the point where they are justifying her genocide... thats insane
Wonder if they'll still be on the YAAS QUEEN SLAY train if she slays tens of thousands of innocents next week or in the finale.
@@KingTofa its not really a question of being woke...
Nothing Daenerys has done or wants to do is all that crazy.
Her father was called mad (mentally ill) because he became an actual paranoid schizophrenic. He heard voices and saw plots against him that weren't there. He refused to clean himself and died muttering the same thing over and over. He wanted to burn everything and everyone. He was not behaving rationally.
Daenerys is a sane person who wants to sack a city and conquer a kingdom. 10,000 civilian deaths is unfortunate, but not unreasonable. Are we going to pretend that innocent people don't die during conquests?
Executing the Tarlys was not a sign of insanity either. She was willing to send the Tarlys to the Wall to take the black but Randyll rejected her authority and chose death. That's on him.
Was executing slavers back in Essos supposed to be a tragedy? She made slaving a capital offense. Slavers wanted to keep slaving. They paid the price. Just like that brother of the Night's Watch who fled the Wall had to pay the price. Desertion was a capital offense. Ned wasn't "mad" for executing him.
Has Daenerys shown signs of paranoia? Well, she fears what could happen if Jon's secret is revealed. But then we see Tyrion and Varys (our sanest and cleverest characters) come to the same conclusion a few scenes later.
She's also suspicious of Sansa. But then we see that Sansa is actually scheming for Northern Independence and actively leaking information that could hurt Daenerys. So she should be suspicious of Sansa, shouldn't she?
She suspects that her advisers, Varys and Tyrion, have divided allegiances, but again ... they do. Tyrion's in love with Sansa, still loves his brother, and has already lied to her. Varys is serving "the Realm" (which really translates to "whatever Varys thinks is best at any given moment").
If this is a depiction of someone becoming paranoid, why are the person's fears all justified?
yeah, they'd actually make good Nazis. The kind of blind irrational loyality is what kept Hitler in power. Fictional show or not, these are real people on the screen. If Daenarys existed, they probably would not faulter on loyalty. Scary really.
@@Eshayzbra96 I get feminist loyalty but blind loyalty isn't good at all.
Arya and Brienne have been brilliant and I would follow them.
i feel like identity politics is 100% Marketas concern in life
It's too much, she can't watch or discuss the show objectively
I kinda want dany to go mad now
same
The leaks from 9 months ago turned out true with this episode. The guy said Missandei will be beheaded by the Mountain and Jon would fight Viserion in the winterfell courtyard...
The other things he said were about what happens to Jon and Dany in the end, you can read it here if you want www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/8ynd8c/edits_to_previous_spoilers_more/
Her character arc is ruined if she does even though I understand why.
Omar_ Elattar. Blah blah character arc blah blah
@@omar_elattar.6500 If she goes mad, her character arc is not ruined, it is complete.
Why should Ghost do an other war ? He's protecting him, Good decision by Jon, stop being Pet Blinded
Besides those wolves are such a waste of money lol they're useless so using this money for the dragons is way smarter
@@tunderdiamant8651 You know nothing, show watcher.
@@MARYWTHER Oh someone who thinks she's smart cause you read the books congratulations :) Too bad you will never be able to read the end cause the writer will be dead by then :)
@@tunderdiamant8651 cuuuuunt
Or just dont have him in a war? Keeping him in Winterfell doesnt mean he has to fight
Marketa: *speaks about the patriachy*
Nahid: *starts speaking over her*
damn, grassy grass with hot take
pat yourself on a shoulder
oh my god, Marketa... *facepalm*
grassy grass Nahid bodied that debate
I applaud him for it. She STFU for a few minutes after. No one wants to hear that BS.
Fucking based Nahid.
The blonde is such a danerys fan boy lol
Fangirl
15:14 😎 "she's gotta be the queen bro" hell yea I hope so!! Sansa ftw
Sansa for the dead
Anyone else feel like the blonde girl is incredibly biased just because Dany is a girl?
I meeeannnn.. Turning it into a boy vs girl argument when it has nothing to do with anything....
Pretty much. I like Marketa, but she's clearly very biased here.
Travis Mattson seems like a common trend amongst other content too.
Yep. I like Marketa but she seems to blindly support Dany. Maybe its because Dany is a girl, maybe she's just a fan of her.
Imo neither of them will get the throne
Well, it is kinda strange for a charismatic intelligent woman to suddenly turn into a reckless tyranical flat-out villain the moment a male character has a claim to her position. I don't know if you've heard of the cliché of making powerful women seem cold and unpersonal but that's definetly what's happening here. Even if you can't aggree with that you have to have seen how Dany's been acting more out of character the moment Jon was declared heir while Jon has been showed to be more and more of a heroic 100% 'good' character.
Toxic feminist
Lol, the white girl can't see the character arc of Danerys. It's all about turning the protagonist bad. "You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself a villian." She is going to become the exact tyrant she was trying to save everyone from. She is going to bring out the dragon and become her father's daughter. At this point, she has made so many mistakes and emotions have gotten the best of her. She is so power hungry for the throne and she did not let the armies rest and think strategiclly. She essentially killed her own dragon. Now she is filled with rage and will make mistakes to make herself vulnerable to die or she will win but become the mad queen. Your male hating has blinded you from the dowfall of your favorite character and I can't wait to see you cry.
Something is certain...the best rulers are usually those who don't care about the throne...but care about the people
Queen Sansa!!
Jeroy Dimasuay stg her and Arya don’t take shit from anyone sansa is the only one that didn’t underestimate cersei.
Sansa : Throne
Her body guards: Arya Hound Brienne | jon if he survives:
Advisors : tyrion Varys and davos.
y theory for the end will be that Arya or jaimie will kill cersei after cersei kills everyone on the battlefield and thinks she's won. That'll leave jaimie to be king, he doesn't want to be king and will give sansa the throne. This is just a wild guess but i believe some of this will happen.
@@naimd6553 lol, assuming all those people will survive
Oh yeah Robert did a great job uh? And so did Jon, oh wait, he gave up his people for pussy and got killed by his people. the bad writing is strong with this one
Honestly, if you reacted with everyone *but* the chick with glasses.. I would have no reason to dislike this.
How is Sansa not being in combat an argument? Sansa is the reason that they have Winterfell to defend. She took it from the Boltons and saved it form Littlefinger. She has been playing the game and keeping the North united despite Jon's bad decisions. Telling Tyrion that Jon is a Targaryan will probably save his life. Jon is an idiot. All Sansa asked was for Dany to let the troops rest but Dany cares more about the throne than their lives. She lost a dragon because of her own stupidity and will cause the death of thousands of her own people not to mention that she might kill thousands of innocents inside the Red Keep.
Varys could turn the Golden Company to Jons side. Euron had to overhear the baby being Jamie's so he could turn on Cersei. Might make the battle less damaging to civilians.
And would varys do that? Especially when cersei has paid them?
@@pamoweiberezi5315 the Golden Company might have something in common with Jon.
Steve Decker How?
no thats not possible the golden company do not betray there contract
The Golden Company breaks its contract with the Free City of Myr, despite looming war with neighboring Lys and Tyrosh. Feast for Crows. @@houseofaction
Marketa has not been paying attention, she saved them, that does not make her a good ruler. She has proven that she is good a conquering people not rule them. Robert Baratheon was a terrible king because he just had no interest in ruling, but his reign was an incredibly prosperous one, because regardless that he didn't want to rule he put capable people in place for them to do the ruling for him. Jon is not Robert Baratheon, he would still hate ruling, but he would do it and he would be good at it specially if he has capable advisors to tell him when he is being stupid.
Also I thought it was very well established that a good warrior does not automatically make a good ruler.
You guys should watch Fate Zero, Iskandar will spell out for you what it means to be a king.
“She fought you didn’t.” Fighting isn’t indicative of worthiness or strength. I’m sure Arya would tell you the same thing.
HeyAngel7 Exactly. First of all, Sansa is a politician not a fighter. She was in the crypts with the other men, women, and children who couldn’t fight. Nobody is shitting on Tyrion, Varys, Gilly, and Missandei for not fighting.
She knew out there she’d only get in the way like Sam who got Edd killed.
And there’s a deleted scene of her and Tyrion fighting wights to protect the kids.
If Drogon bites the dust too Dany will be nothing anymore. All her power is based on them, not on herself. Thats why people are flocking to Jon instead of her.
Marketa need to chill and start seeing what the show is trying to show us. Dany's character is shifting for the worse. I get that she's your favorite, but you have to accept she has flaws and that her flaws are starting to reveal themselves more and more. Don't bring gender politics into the table and start facing the possibility that Jon is the more stable and fair individual despite him being a man.
I agree with this. And also, about the title of 'Warden', I believe it's more military that political. It's like the 'Protector of the realm' title, which usually goes together with the title of King, but in the case of a child king, the Protector of the Realm is the Regent (the Protector is the one in charge of the royal army).
I mean, in that time it was not usual that the women were trained for battle. We have seen Brienne being made a Knight, Arya is now considered a Hero, and Lyanna Mormont has been respected as one too, but it is still not usual, and Sansa is not a warrior. The North is open to a Lady being a political leader and a Warrior as was little Lyanna, but Sansa is not that kind of leader, that's why she is not the Warden of the North. And I would say she is happy to be Lady of Winterfell and have Jon be the Warden. But, anyway, those kind of situations could possibly bring along tensions, that's why the people like a man better in a position of power.
We know today that it's good to have some women in positions of power and it's good to have separate responsibilities in a government and force them to dialogue and find compromises; but in a cut-throat time like the one they were living in Westeros, it was arguably better to have just one strong and respected leader.
Anyway, I believe that Jon and Daenerys ruling together as King and Queen of the Seven Kingdoms and Protectors of the Realm (she leads armies riding Drogon), preferably as a Marriage (or at least as a Targaryen alliance of Aunt and Nephew), could be a good option. That's what Queen Isabel and King Fernando did in Spain (XVth century), she was Queen of one part of the Realm and he was King of the other part, but they instituted a united realm, which would go together to their heirs.
it isn't shifting though. the problem is that its being done very heavy handedly and is forced af. she wont marry because she doesn't wanna share the throne? LMAO, she offered to do just that in previous seasons as a political move.
she's the daughter of the mad king and is getting angry and sad because her people died? wow So does that mean Jon is living up to his grandfather's madness when he reacted emotionally to seeing his brother and fucked over the BOB strategy?
this isnt about gender or wtv. its about rushed AF storytelling. instead of having organically show her being unhinged the show tells us what to think of her and how to interpret her reactions through Varys and Tyrion
B A so true
You're wasting Time analyzing such a shit show. Its been shit since season 4