Worst Personality Disorder for Others | Indirect Exposure to Personality Disorders
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- Опубліковано 14 тра 2024
- This video attempts to answer the question: What's the worst personality disorder for other people (indirect exposure effect)? The term worst is highest subjective, so I'll be looking at distress and the potential for this effect to interfere with functioning. I'm basing this answer a little bit more on my experience as opposed to research and the challenge with that of course is with comorbidity. A lot of times of course when we see personality disorder, we see one or more other personality disorders at the same time, so determining the effect of just one personality disorder can be difficult.
The ten personality disorders are listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM). They are grouped in the three clusters:
Cluster A: paranoid personality disorder, schizoid personality disorder, and schizotypal personality disorder
Cluster B: antisocial personality disorder, narcissistic personality disorder, borderline personality disorder, and histrionic personality disorder
Cluster C: avoidant personality disorder, dependent personality disorder, and obsessive-compulsive personality disorder
My argument is totally anecdotal, but I'm going to say narcissistic personality disorder is the most destructive - just for the aggregated havoc it can wreak on children. Those children can develop personality disorders in response and create a cycle of abuse for god knows how many successive generations.
Brent Wilbur Yes this is true but a child being raised with an ASPD, or BPD parent could be equally distressed. I’ve seen some terrible parenting, I’m sure there was either one of the worst cluster Bs there. It’s strange what a mix of personalities can come from such families. There’s usually at least one good one, I’m curious how this happens.
@@dottyp137 at least with bipolar disorder, there isn't delusion of grandeur, at least not as its most prominent symptom. That goes a long way for the likelihood that they will seek help.
@Matheus Costa de Oliveira Are you saying this to me? I wasn't fully aware people with bipolar were particularly manipulative
Alex Arias sorry I meant borderline personality disorder.
Matheus Costa de Oliveira I was talking about borderline personality disorder BPD 😊. I don’t know anything about bipolar disorder, except Stephen Fry and other delightful famous people have a diagnosis 😊
The smear campaign of a former narcissistic friend was extremely distressing to me. Over time, I lost every single friend in that friend group because of lies the narcissist told about me. I did not correct lies that I discovered she told about me because I felt it made me look guilty. I hoped my friends knew me well enough to know her gossip was false. Over time, even my best friend went to the dark side. I have learned that any group is only as good as the lowest common denominator. When I see the narcissist out and about in town, I feel sorry for those who are with her. I was friends with the narcissist for four years, and learned that her smear campaign started when she first met me. At one point I gave her a narcissist injury by telling her that something she said about another friend was unkind. She went to that friend and told her that I said it. And, that friend believed her! Oh well, I am so glad that I am out. I have no energy for it. Moving on is best.
Wowwww! I know someone just like this. She projected her short comings on to me. I feel sorry for her 12 year old daughter who lives with her. I will say that her adult sons ( all 3 of them ) were smart enough to escape her and don't have much to do with her. I have gone no contact and wish I'd done it sooner.
I hope this experience has taught you to speak up & nip things in the bud when that ugly head attempts to rear itself!
You cannot expect people to be/remain that reasonable, especially when drugged with venom with timed constancy.
It is an attack on their senses & they'll cave in & turn against you. Some sooner than later. And your silence will be taken as guilt.
As it is written, "...when the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him".
If you don't lift up your voice, you only have yourself to blame when the flood overtakes!
Yessss! Moving on and not looking back. The Narc is not worth it!!
👍🏼
@@roseaduke8835 I had to go to family court aganst my ex who abused our children and me. Speaking up against his false narratives was punished. It is used to take the children away as they say if you are saying it here without proof, you are poisoning your children with it and teaching them to lie. But they believe the false narrative of parental alienation without proof. Luckily, I had documented some of the abuse. Liars are so deceptive and sneaky about the abuse it is hard to prove, but anyone listening to us would see our narratives were consistent, his floundered and he got caught in his own lies. They believe the deceiver is honest and the honest abused partner and children are liars. Even after they saw through him they punished me for trying to regain some of what I lost by his lies. Even the legal system is corrupt and designed by attorneys to benefit the deceiver and to protect advantage takers and abusers, especially financially and through control of and access to the children.
In my own personal experience, my BPD has been very distressing to people I have relationships with. I've had so many friendships end horribly. It was so difficult when I was going through therapy and learning how my patterns were leading to turmoil in my relationships. My actions seemed so rational to me at the time, but looking back, they absolutely weren't. It's tough, but I'm relearning how to relate to people, in a healthier, less destructive way.
i wish you the best in your journey to recovery.
I am so glad that you chose to confront your problem! This is the most important step and so few of the people with BPD are capable of doing it! I am grateful to you on behalf of all their relatives!
Good for you for getting help!
Kudos to you for taking good care of yourself in a healthy way.
Narcissistic and antisocial together potentially fatal for other people ranging from one person to Millions. Adolf Hitler had both and look what happened to the people who had contact with him or were influenced or affected by him! Those two together are what makes a proper psychopath!
Narcissistic Personality Disorder, absolutely. My mother was NPD, and my father is. If I were lying on the floor bleeding out, my dad would walk right past me and let me die if he had plans to do something. He was abusive when I was young, and even now, when he's 80 years old, he still tries to punch me in the face (I studied marshal arts, and I merely grab his fist in mid-air and tell him sternly, "NO!"). My mom was so selfish she didn't even know I existed, and my dad is and has always been about himself as well. People with NPD are simply not good people - I suspect deep down they enjoy ruining other's lives.
I feel for you on this. My Dad tried hitting me but he was too scared because I just confronted him and let rip screaming defiance at him. my brother thought keeping quite was the best policy- Dad tried to suffocate him with a pillow!
I feel for you as well. BOTH my parents have toxic NPD and my grown children now see it as well and won't let me have contact. To quote my oldest son who is 33, "Wow Mom, your parents really HATE YOU!!" Yeah, well it would have been nice if I had been able to figure this out 30 yrs ago.
That's psychopathy not fucking narcissism
Malignant narcissists.
@@cht2162 I have heard so many ways of describing it. Dr. Grande calls it narcissism and psychopathy, but antisocial personality is the umbrella term as I understand it ( for sociopathy to psychopathy), but Dr. Grande seems to see narcissism to psychopathy on a continuum which makes some sense to me except that there is a deliberate hatefulness and calculated, sadistic destructiveness in narcissistic or sadistic sociopaths and I would say they are all of the dark triad and the worst of the worst. I don't believe narcissism alone is so brutal or predatory, it may be much more innocent and vulnerable in an innocent sense, but as part of the dark triad of narcissism, psychopathy and Machiavellianism, or as narcissism and sociopathy (sociopathy being made more by early childhood experience) which I think must always include some level of sadism, it is extremely disturbing and damaging, especially to children. Sadism is correlated with narcissism. There are many more narcissists who would not be sadistic or intentionally damaging though. I think a line should be drawn where people are deliberate predators to other people, so not everyone gets painted with the same brush. Also, Dr. Elinor Greenberg has written a book on narcissism, schizoid and borderline personality disorders and she views them differently. She doesn't use the dsm 5, I do not believe, but she believes narcissism, as far as what actually gives the label, can be cured, black and white thinking or splitting and issues with whole object relations and object constancy, but as far as malignant narcissists they usually aren't interested in making themselves that vulnerable.
I do feel that professionals do tend to avoid/ignore the damage that mentally ill individuals inflict (either intentionally or unintentionally) upon those close to them. Their children, spouses, siblings, etc. It’s an inconvenient truth. The elephant in the room.
We as mental health professionals are supposed to have “unconditional positive regard” and build rapport and focus on helping the client heal and overcome dysfunctional behaviors. And acknowledging that the symptom criteria for certain disorders (e.g. manipulating others, lying, physically attacking others, etc) ARE literal descriptions of abusive behavior... well. It’s inconvenient.
I believe the radio silence from actual mental health professionals on this topic may explain the veritable mob of pseudo-professionals waxing poetic about “narcissistic abuse” and “escaping a borderline” and why there are so many people who flock to that type of content. It is striking a chord for many, and I do not think it is wise for the community of mental health professionals and advocates to dismiss that as mere “exaggeration”.
Mentally ill individuals can cause EXTREME damage to those around them. A minor child trapped in a home being subjected to frequent fits of rage from their BPD parent may even develop mental disorders (like PTSD for example) that they may not have otherwise acquired if they had not been subject to their parent’s symptomatic behavior. For another example, professionals refer to a “valuation and devaluation cycle” with BPD and frankly, for the person on the receiving end of this cycle... it might seem insultingly euphemistic to call it “valuation and devaluation” rather than a “honeymoon-period and abuse cycle”. I mean, really what functional difference is there between the “valuation/devaluation cycle” and a “honeymoon-period/abuse cycle”? As far as I can tell, there isn’t any difference. Therefore the harm caused by either would be the same.
NimbusDX also if there are many female BPDs the therapist community is full of feminists who minimize the damage they do to victims.
Thank you for this!
Political correctness has infiltrated the mental health community, I see. That's not helpful. It's avoidant and just adds to the emotional damage.
Only for me it is a sadistic NPD doing this damage. I have often wondered if he was co-morbid with BPD, but his lying and manipulations and willingness to hurt people , as well as his well thought out planning, has caused me to believe he is antisocial and his BPD-like chaos is part of the performance.
There is a big difference between the valuation/devaluation and honeymoon/abuse cycle. One is done out of triggered emotions, unintentionally, and the other is done completely intentionally to hurt and manipulate the person.
Also, a devaluation is less predictable, and I think if the ill person is selfaware and in treatment it will happen less and less, whereas a narcissistic abuse cycle escalates and they usually don't seek treatment, because being a narcissist is a good way to survive in this sick world, and they are too entitled and arrogant to think they have a problem (it's us that have a problem with them lol). So, even in appearance the devaluing of a bpd can take so many shapes and forms and it is always so unpredictable. It might be great for a long period of time and then one day you forget to get the eggs they asked for and they fly off the handle because that must mean you don't love them. It's irrational and unintentional and it usually is all about how the person with bpd is "being treated". They feel under attack and they feel abused when they devalue. There's always a reason behind it. But I agree in that it is still abuse. And should not be overlooked.
My older sister has Borderline PD, and she can’t hold a romantic relationship for longer than a few months. Her friends have learned when to step away. But in work, she’s very successful: an executive at a high level company. BUT, she works from home-so she’s not interacting with people or making relationships in real time. Very accurate, Dr. Grande.
I can’t believe that you’re not a professor somewhere. Your brain is able to create cogent clear messages that sound as though you’re dictating a Psychology text book. Every one of your videos sounds like somebody has read to me a chapter entitled whatever you’ve titled the video. You really ought to consider getting all of this into book form and getting published. I doubt there would be much editing. Really, you have an amazing organizational brain.
Academia could ruin him - this guy is both high intelligence and pragmatic at the same time. That's like Hope Diamond rare.
He is
I totally agree. He has so much knowledge in his mind. He also appears to be very humble.
Dude leave him alone!
Bout His UA-cam channel…
That’s his pick up line/way to meet chicks !
Lol
Jk
….why do you think he calls himself DR.”GRANDE “
Which means “LARGE” in Spanish !
You know what I’m saying
Saying huh you know what I’m saying saying?
Hahahaha I’m funny huh?
I’m Just playing around .
I like him he’s cool .
Yay! Avoidant is the “best”!
While fidelity is very high, I find sometimes my AvPD stresses my wife because I’m unwilling or unable to voice my opinions when they’re different from hers.
Sometimes I don’t want to express my opinion because it’s very different and I don’t want to ruffle feathers. Other times, I struggle to find the right words to say what I think that -by the time I’ve figured it out-the conversation is over.
She’s figured out-after 20 years-that on important issues, she needs to ask what I think and give me time to put my thoughts together.
macmedic892 👌
😊💕
This is beautiful. Gives me hopes. I'm happy for your marriage.
My oldest daughter has AvPD and some say it was from her Leukemia treatments at age 3 - 8,; that childhood medical trauma is usually the cause for this PD, and I've also read studies recently that they've found clusters, A B C, is 52% genetic, leaving 48% to the environment. What is your ideas on this from your personal experience? Did you have a childhood medical trauma? I understood exactly what you expressed about your wife dancing around wanting you to communicate your opinion-feelings. LOL thanks for sharing, for just today I talked to my daughter via text, and it takes her sister to break in and mediate what she's trying to say to me. Breaks my heart as a mom to see her struggle so hard and I can't fix it for her.
@JD Jones Having APD doesn't mean being neglectful towards children. I think you are confusing something here
I'm just thankful I live in the 21 century and have access to learning & choice! No matter how bad a situation is we can find ways to improve our circumstances and not be branded by divorce etc as people in past generations weren't free to pursue.
Choosing to learn to be independent, hang on to cash so you can move on if you must & learn as much as you can how to handle people.
Thank you Dr. Grande!
As someone with borderline, I can definitely say “I got it from my momma!”. She is a narcissist but her abuse gave me borderline.
My Mother's personality disorders had our home in constant crisis ...
I think I developed my borderline tendancies from the crazy making and character assassination of everyone in her path.... She had all our head's spinning and of course it was all our fault.... A double bind..
My narcissist dad gave BPD to me!
luster A:
6:05: Paranoid personality disorder
7:10: Schizoid personality disorder
8:08: Schizotypal personality disorder
Cluster B :
8:55: Antisocial personality disorder
10:15: Narcicistic personality disorder
11:50: Borderline personality disorder
13:50: Histrionic personality disorder
Cluster C:
14:55: Avoidant personality disorder
15:55: Dependent personality disorder
16:40: Obsessive compulsive personality disorder
Schizoid Personality Disorder is clearly the least problematic for other people as the only real harm being done to others is a failure to reciprocate emotional connections in most cases.
@@SmallSpoonBrigade You're probably right. Cluster A, B and C are not rankings from worst to less bad. They are just categories with personality dissorders that are similar to each other.
Cluster B, particularly NPD, ASPD, and BPD. HANDS DOWN. A good number of these disordered people are/tend to be comorbid, which makes things worse. I'm speaking from both my own personal experience and vicarious experience.
Sounds right... those people are intentionally harmful to others.
@@5winder Well not all of them, especially not bpd and hpd. Npd and aspd, they can be intentionally harmful to others and a lot of them are, but not all of them.
I think it really depends on the person. I've met people with hpd, bpd, npd, and aspd who were all really nice and trying to be good people, and I've also met some who were just horrible to everyone.
@big heart I will not stop. Misinformation about mental illness severely harms many people.
@@nicorizzo5402 can I correct you, specifically on your statement regarding aspd and npd being very nice sometimes and trying to be good people then? I'm confident aspd don't care and npd are incapable and more likely will be kind with the intent of being liked and gaining something from their interactions with others. Being nice is part of their mask.
I was a Psychiatric Nurse for 25 years, and I once wanted to write a book. Many of the psych professionals, myself included, often were drawn to the field to make sense of their own life and experience. My Mom was DPD and what a hot mess she was! I understood her so much better once I understood the disorder.
Never did write the book but I have a working title: Looking for Mom in the DSM.
I wonder 💭 how that looked like I heard is a less common diagnosis or not talked about as much so the book might be helpful to those type of ppl to be understood .. I think it’s similar to codependent in love addict situation I learned form him it starts as avoidant personality disorder and .. hence a remind me of the love addict love avoidant to be the example of exploited and cold avoidant personality disorder .. but then bpd is part of that C group but it’s all rooted form CPTSD or sever trauma because learned from him all three have sex abuse in commons … which reminds me of hysteria which was drop in the dsm I heard but after watching marlyin Monroe act out a character like her mom and her herself to have the same issue was bizarre why it was drop but then learning all type C are variations of basically hysteria from my understanding and even Rhiana has a song called hysteria and then I find out stuff she wen they in the industry at youth age so it’s weird the artist that have long term issues have been d struggling with this out in public but it so called not talked about it’s so bizarre it’s definitely a society thing making it worst to talk about sex abuse more often and causing more truama because truama happens when you have no one to talk about it and help I guess a lot of sexual abuse is justice or understanding that no consent is more then penetration
Definitely narcissistic pd is the worst. Lots of Bpd’s at least TRY and can become self aware.
yes and its also known bpd is stemming feom childhood trauma- narc abuse wrecks havoc and many w bpd had a npd parent. i noticed most people say npd! and malignant npd the absolute worst,
@Ninth Tome
I have always been self aware and extremely self conscious. I would always apologise if I exploded at someone (for a very valid reason, but still apologised) or hold onto my anger and journal about it later. I would very angry with my mum because she always tried to shut down any expression of emotions from me and I tried to repress it until I had enough.
After therapy, I'm a lot more restrained and my symptoms are nearly gone. I can no longer be diagnosed with it as I only have two traits 😊
@Ninth Tome
Aw, thanks. At first, I wasn't too on board with therapy. Just because we started off in a very weird place (Mindfulness skills) and caught me off guard. But then, we adapted the strategy to react to situation at hand and then learn a new skill alongside practising something from last week.
It has been hard. Part of my instability was the relationships I had, which were really really toxic. Even after leaving these relationships, some of my friends who knew from me telling them or from seeing it with their own eyes said that I needed to do it sooner. I've become a lot more stable after I left these relationships behind, including my old therapist who was so stuck in DBT protocol that she wasn't willing to listen to anything I had to say during times of crisis. The final straw for me was her wanting for me to discuss some of the most painful and emotional parts of my history in front of a packed bus home from university over the phone. I refused because I didn't want for everyone to hear about it and didn't want to scare the hell out of them if I had a panic attack.
I'm now happy to have a new therapist who respects my privacy and seems to understand me more than my old therapist and is willing to listen and solve the problem together.
I want to become a counselling or a health psychologist to help others. To use my horrible past experiences as a way to improve other people's lives and give them how that things can get better. My friend is currently on a psychiatric ward on a section but has rejected my offer to teach her the skills that saved my life and helped me thrive and seems to struggle with her psychologist on the NHS. She's also very volatile. I remember when I met her on the ward for the first time... Volatile, angry and always in attack mode. It's what was so scary to me. I had BPD as well. I promised myself to never let myself become that way. I never wanted to be that volatile and angry. I didn't want to spend years and years on a ward with no way to escape the place. With permission from my psychiatrist, I was able to go to my dance classes once a week, as I went there voluntarily.
I just want to inspire others to recover and see that their life, no matter how difficult, is worth living.
That's because BPD's extreme range in mood swings moment to moment even, hot- cold, crazy raging, depression, punishment, revenge, and silent treatment shows as obvious. The Drama and chaos are hard as hell and their arrested emotional development (childlike persona) without the ability to regulate their emotions, as where NPD cerebral and more controlled.
@@ladybug947 Yeah, although oddly enough I read that most people with npd are also abuse victims, and so are most people with aspd. I wonder what causes some abuse victims to develop npd, others to develop bpd, and others still to develop aspd? I know straight up neglect causes hpd.
Winner: NPD!
AND THE CROWD GOES WILD!!!!
What about the children who grow up in the home of OCD hoarders?
But it was a wild crowd to begin with, 😂😂👍
@@jacksprat2178 horders don't affect as many people. Its a numbers game. Npd leave a really high body count.
The kids of horders have it very rough. Everyone who has more than 3 sentences with my narc ex has cognitive dissonance and I've seen him drive people to quit their job , go to drs. for body and mind, move apts., basically he wouldn't leave people alone till they felt really bad about themselves. Especially children. Such easy prey. Out in the world actively abusing people, plants and animals.
His version of fun.
@@jacksprat2178 not necessarily a personality disorder
And the narcissist go wild they finally accomplish something
Narcissistic psychopaths & narc sociopaths are the worst people I’ve had to put up with in relatives & others.
I don’t think that most of the videos I’ve seen on the effects of being in a relationship with a narcissist (or closely related personality disorder) as exaggerated. When you live with the effects of narcissistic abuse, it’s hell. I think we shouldn’t UNDERSTATE the damage that is done.
How can you even be sure it was a narcissist doing the abuse do they have a diagnosis
Yes. But there are other narcissistic type personality disorders besides NPD that are just just as destructive. Such as OCPD, who can be very narcissistic but it isn’t NPD. Narcissistic abuse comes from narcissistic behavior, which is not just NPD diagnosed people.
@@DannaShaffer listen I don't know hew told you ocpd was a type of narcissism but there wrong not all abusers a narcissists and not all narcissists are abusive in any way
@@DannaShaffer npd and ocpd aren't even closely related
Read it again. I didn’t say they were the same. I said there are narcissistic type people-meaning they display narcissistic behavior and thinking- who do not have NPD. People with NPD aren’t the only people who are narcissistic and are also not the only people who dole out narcissistic abuse. And yes, all narcissistic people are abusive, just at varying levels. Unfortunately, narcissistic people have no self insight and don’t recognize that in themselves or that certain behaviors are abusive.
Narcissist with abuse amnesia, not only are they never wrong, they never remember doing anything considered wrong by society. Add that they are passively suicidal so their refusal to actively take care of them self, even if it can lead to serious illness or death is always the fault of the other person.
I lived with someone as their wife for 22 years who had obsessive compulsive personality disorder . What you said about coworkers extended to myself and our son.
He saw us as extension’s of himself and therefore expected us to be perfect. However the perfectionism came in the form of rules he made and would change whenever he liked. He was the godlike maker of the rules. If we did not comply eventually he would explode into a rage. We would run around trying to comply and be perfect however it was never good enough. It was exhausting. Anyway I think a good point to add as it coherent with what you said just I can attest to a high degree of abuse and stress both mental and physical at times. To everyone else outside our family he was of course perfect.
Are you sure he didn't have Narcisstic personality as well? It sounds like he flew into narcisstic rages and him making rules as a godlike figure sounds so much like NPD.
Dear. Dr. Grande
🙏 I can't thank you enough for this special show and so many others UA-cam you discussed MENTAL ILLNESS. I dated a man for over a year. I loved him, but the hate/ love anger/ crying adoration/ putting me down times were crazy...and they moved from one minute to another. Itt made me feel that I was on a roller coaster all the time... It took me a year to start believing that I'm not always the "wrong" one. I started to read lots and lots of mental Inness. His stories his ex- wife ( who he stated was a narcissist) started to show me the real truth.
Once I read ( days and day of reading) the " Boarderline Personality Disorder" it's all made sense. Wow...
The breaking up was very difficult and stressful. He was stocking me, sending me very angry and threatening texts which I got so scared I remember sitting on the toilet for hours at the gym praying that he won't find me....and at the same he left flowers all over my front door. ( I change my Lock immediately. !!!!)
This man occupation is a lawyer. I didn't want to make any scenes due to his job.
I'm 60 years old, iI had great marriage and many boyfriends. But dating a man with Borderline Personality Disorder really shook me to my core.
Wow... I have been listening to your shows forever!
Thank you 🙏
You are extremely intelligent.
🌺🌺🌺
Your videos are excellently constructed and broken down with such clear narrative thank you. I have really enjoyed watching them. From my personal romantic experience in relationships I think the borderline & narcissistic pd’s are the most damaging to a partner. The reason for that is the level of conviction in their outrageous lies, selfishness and shameless deceit these individuals use in their covert manipulation tactics, combined with their irrational jealousy and infidelity.
Because even when the truth emerges that their carefully crafted stories the partner buys into are complete and utter lies , they never accept the truth or are genuinely remorseful. Yet they artfully project onto their partner and it is extremely damaging, it causes enormous self doubt, loss of confidence and that horrible enmeshed emotional tie that takes so very long , if ever to disentangle from, rarely intact. As the partner is often literally and without realising , a puppet on a string.
Actually borderlines don't manipulate and are often known to be very selfless and overly filled with shame.
Nicolette James I respect your comment , internal shame is definitely a feature of both. however many psychiatrists attest that borderlines are one of the hardest PD’s to treat , precisely because of manipulation . Many pd’s have comorbidity with other pd’s too. I was personally in a relationship with someone who was extremely manipulative & exploitative , after persuading them to seek the help of a psychologist he was diagnosed with BPD. He was in fact a dangerous character, he would have destroyed me if he could.
@@jacqc1533 Actually while there is a lot of stigma and misinformation surrounding bpd, it is the most succesful pd in recovering through therapy. 88% of borderlines fully recover after 10 years of therapy. Also, studies have found that borderlines don't manipulate. Sometimes people can feel manipulated by their behavior, but it's not intentional or planned. You might be thinking of npd actually, that's one where manipulation is a symptom and it's very difficult to treat.
Perhaps it's BPD comorbid with ASPD or NPD. Because normally BPD people are not known to be manipulative. ASPD people tend to cheat, lie and manipulate a lot and not care.
I agree
I have BPD. I always try to be mindful of my personality disorder and not let it get in the way. Its hard because my interpretation of emotional events is distorted, but I do the best I can.
How do you really know it's 'distorted'?
From my personal struggle with the disorder, it's the realization that again and again small things blow up and get way out of proportion. You just realize that that isn't normal at some point, if you're lucky.
Dont have children.
Thank you for that! This shows me very clearly that other commenters were right: people with BPD have better chances to overcome their disorder than narcissists - thanks to self-awareness.
@@anthonyiuculano6002 Through feed back from people and working with therapists.
I have had to deal on a personal level with one of each Cluster B. A NPD friend, a APD acquintance and a BPD romantic partner. The most harmful have been the NPD and the APD. The BPD was terrible too but at least I know they never had bad intentions and they did love me on some level, their disorder just prevented them from possibly having a healthy relationship. The NPD and APD were malicious and downright evil.
You mean "ASPD"??
🤦
Had a BPD family member. Extremely vindictive. Extremely argumentative. Walking on egg shells was our life.
@@k3w1b3an5 Vindictivness is not inhernt to BPD, maybe that's just something that particular person had. People with BPD generally don't mean harm. They're in constant turmoil and their dysregulated emotions can be directed in unhealthy ways.
@@jason0998 It doesn't matter what BPDs "mean" when they are killing you as a person with their made-up fantasies or paranoia. When they are in the fit of rage they are terrifying and you are scarred for life. You cannot even think what they "mean". You just want to run away and save your sanity. Most of them are purposefully ignorant of what they do to other people but some enjoy the effect -- fear that they cause. And for those who are just "disregulated" -- how can you know if they "mean harm" or not. They have no idea what they mean or want or what they are capable of.
My father has paranoid personality disorder and my parents divorced because of it. the time I spent in his custody was absolutely terrorizing. he was angry and scared almost all the time and had frequent episodes of losing touch with reality. he often focused his suspicion and derision on me and I didn't understand why although I realized he was ill. that isn't very mitigating when you're a child at the mercy of such behavior
It's amazing someone wanted to marry him.
I just wanted to say that I’ve been watching your videos for a while and I think they’re fantastic. I really appreciate that your information is always research based. Thank you for taking the time to educate your viewers!!
Thank you so much for those kind words!
Thank you for a very interesting vlog, Dr Grande! My only known experience was with a borderline friend who made me her favorite person. Rating my own distress would have been moderate to high (30+ texts and phone calls every day) when she was manipulating for more attention than I had left to give. By what you said, I feel the Cluster B would be the hardest of all on anyone, but looking at the positives, we can all learn to have better boundaries after experiencing a person suffering a personality disorder. And yes, I do feel those with any PD do suffer immensely. Have a happy day ☺️
To me, Cluster B is always going to always be highly damaging to "person B" in romantic relationships but for different reasons. ASD and NPD are predatory. The others, and arguably NPD, rely on person B for emotional regulation. Each of the Cluster Bs can pick a "target" or "favorite person" in a work or friendship situation and prey or rely on such people. I believe that the context of the relationship matters, however none of the Cluster Bs will necessarily limit their damaging effects to romantic partners if the pick someone out and seek them for what they can "supply" them. All of the Cluster B's will drain those who they seek to feed their deficiencies and leave their "person B's drained in some way or another.
Miss E: I love it how you mentioned the "divide and conquer" -method used by cluster B folk. This is quite rarely mentioned, but is absolutely on point. I've used this strategy ever since I was a kid, and it works wonders! The targeted individual thinks I'm interested in them as a person, while actually my true motive takes a whole different form. :)
Miss E do you feel Borderline does this "supply" as predatory and- or emotional regulation? Do they cling or direct their attention onto whomever they think will do something for them?
@@mystijkissler8183 little confused by the question in terms of "doing supply". I think there is likely an operative word missing. I don't think borderlines are predatory in my mind. I'm saying this as someone who has family members and been in relationships with them. I think they're just "needy" and it can be DRAINING. Could this border on kind of taking advantage or taking for granted of people? - probably. But i have also been married to an ASPD/NPD, and I know what predatory behavior is like and it's not the same. NPDs like borderlines need that special someone for emotional regulation. Both are insecure. But I find the intentions of the NPD (and ASPDs) to completely lack empathy and remorse. Borderlines have some empathy and remorse, but they often have huge blind spots. They're just really emotionally underdeveloped/stunted- but there is still some compassion and humanity to them. Does that make sense?
@@misse7154 Thank you for helping me narrow down the aspect of "predatory" vs "needy & underdeveloped emotionally" in BPD. I was married twice, each over 13 yrs. to NPD's of different types, unknowingly. The malignant narc was a terrible con artist, preying on everyone he could. Ironically, after not dating for 12 yrs, I came across the cluster B's, and there was my new boyfriend with BPD; he had intentionally not told me. I questioned him about BPD and he dumped me of course. We talk on chat, after a year of his punishing me with no contact, however, as so-called friends, I'm able to observe his behavior and the insight has been healing for the closure I've needed. Thank you so much.
@@kurpalm0n966 My ex BPD told me once, "I'm in it to win it". when I'd questioned him about smearing me to family when he'd felt desparate about an argument. Blew me away.
Schizoid here. Have a nice day. I'm gonna mow my lawn.
And it's nighttime.
With sunglasses and mask
Hi !
@@leoniesser5958 you forgot the hoodie
Lol.
This is an excellent description of these disorders, the best analogies yet for the lay person. This has cleared up many questions for me in my personal relationships, and at work. The toxicity of these personalities can and have brought distress to my life. Thankfully I have learned to put distance and boundaries in place and my life is so much better. Cannot thank you enough, as I was just not sure if it was me or my intolerance. Much appreciation Dr Grande.
So much great, and very well thought out information here! Thank you for all your hard work, it's greatly appreciated!
I found this very informative to determine where ones own experience, affects & benchmarks, align with your professional perception of commonality. Nice vlog Dr.
I don't know. Being under the same roof as a violent malignant narcissist was horrific. You just wouldn't know when he'd create weird associations and have a rage attack. Even asleep, he'd wake up and throw fits. Really scary. Tried strangle his brother in front of me. I eventually packed my stuff and fleed for my life.
Thank you so much for this. Avoidant issues truly are distressing!
I addressed this topic, indirectly, in the comment section of your “stigma/superpowers” video. I’m glad you have made a video about the negative impacts to collateral “others”.
Thank you for another wonderful and informative video.Both of our parents had severe depression and personality disorders.Dad was BPD and Mom was NPD ( they were both abused as children so they also had CPTSD and Social Anxiety).We turned out having a horrid comorbid mix of BPD/Schizoid Personality and DID due to severe adversity( the BPD is the "silent/introverted type").We also have Aspbergers(Dad's side of family),CPTSD/PTSD combo,Alexithymia,RAD,SPD(Sensory Processing Disorder), Unipolar Depression,Bipolar 2, OCD,ADD/ADHD with Impulse Control problems,Hoarding Disorder(getting help with this..We inherited this condition too as the parents were born and raised during the Depression and WW2),Phobias...including Agoraphobia,etc. and a ton of physical disabilities and illnesses too. A friend from Maine USA
So when NPD types get to be the leaders of your country we could say that the negative effect would be HIGH.
Side effects: Economical decline, chronic brain-drain, increased violence rates.
Plus violent attempts to retake power with a boldfaced lie.
They narcissists cause a lot of damage some of them in joy hurting people they laugh at you after they hurt you. You don’t know much about it unless you have lived with one. My husband whole family is toxic! Two brothers ,his father and mother. They would abuse me and my husband wouldn’t protect me. He wouldn’t call 911 if I was having heart attack. Narcissists are the worst people I have ever meet. They will use you until your sick then throw you away.
They'll even use you when you're sick on your deathbed, and managed to separate yourself from them. They'll mock, shame and guilt you for telling the truth about them to others. They just take, take, take and steal your energy and hurt you for fun.
Excellent video 😊. So informative. Thank you so much. I really need to go through all of your videos to catch up on who’s who 😊. They are fascinating. 👍🏻
Various YT channels on narcissism are so grandiose and unscientific it’s laughable. Thanks for keeping your channel based on research and not playing into dramatization of disorders for views.
Wow. And yuk.although ur prob a narc
You’re the best I can listen to you all day not so with many of other docs on here on theses matters/ conditions
as some people already commented a very important group you neglected to mention is children of people with said personality disorders, children of people with cluster b PDs often suffer greatly and undergo extreme abuse, which is also the reason for narcissism getting bashed a lot on youtube, and completely rightfully at that, cluster b's many times make for absolutely monstrous parents.
Well not all cluster b's, at least not borderlines. Another thing to remember is narcissistic abuse has nothing to do with npd. Not all narcissistic abusers have npd (or any cluster b- in fact many are neurotypical!), and not everyone with npd (or any cluster b) is a narcissistic abuser.
@@nicorizzo5402 I assumed maybe falsely that narc abuse is caused by a narcissist or similiar pd, im not saying that all people with cluster b pds are abusers but that really seems to be much more common in that population, personally i know many people including myself who were heavily abused by BPD mothers
@@privatesniffles1607 I understand. Unfortunately many people are under the impression that all cluster b's are abusive and that all narcissistic abusers must have a cluster b, and neither of those things are true. My parents are both narcissistic abusers but neither of them have npd or any pd.
@@nicorizzo5402 wouldn't ur parents just be abusers (without the word "narcissitic" ) if they don't have npd?
@@Hollow-ty3qm Yes.
The thing to remember about bpd though is that quiet borderlines express their symptoms very differently, they're internalized. So the level of distress around quiet borderlines tends to be much lower.
You're very right!
Thank you for that insight 😘
@Sweet Pea Quiet bpd absolutely is a thing. It's not just anxious attachment. As a quiet borderline I have all 9 symptoms of bpd, but the difference is I internalize my symptoms rather than expressing them outwardly.
@Sweet Pea I do agree that the term unstable relationships can be a bit ambiguous. I personally have lived with my fiance for 8 years and we're still happy, so it's definitely not true that borderlines can't have stable relationships, contrary to popular belief. Now, the symptom criteria does specify that the instability in relationships is due to the pattern of idealization and devaluation. I definitely do that in my mind, but I don't express those thoughts to other people. So in that sense, my relationships may not be unstable, but I do still split. It's 1 example of how quiet bpd is still bpd, but expressed internally and not outwardly.
@Sweet Pea See, that's the thing. Some borderlines may do the things you talked about, but not all of us do. That is exactly my point.
Thank you again you made the disorders so clear to see!
Dr, Grande, I work at the Counseling Dept of a large college. I have pulled hundreds of research documents and studied Personality Disorders non stop for the past five years. Perhaps we are thinking along the same lines however the manner in which we present explanations differ. You have seen the percentages of co-morbidity of the different PDs published in research papers. This has lead me to believe that the identification of a PD is purely subjective; the main symptom that stands out to the therapist. Hence I try to explain PDs a bit differently. I believe that the behaviors exhibited of the Personality Disordered person are the tools or techniques that that person has learned works the best to manage their dysfunctional immediate family environment. All of the maladaptive behaviors are learned and inadvertently supported by the dysfunctional family. Of course the extent to which the child is developmentally "stunted" will affect the ability or success of the adult child to function in an adult world.
The World Health Organization's first publication of the cost of PDs to society is staggering. In the College environment educators are seeing the result of parental coddling and the loss of resilience in the development of character of young adults. The Disability Resource Centers are being overrun by PDs and demanding helicopter parents who claim their child is "disabled" when in reality the problem is the dysfunctional family environment.
Governments have not been helpful in that when parents insist that their child is THE problem....obesity, bulimia, drug abuse, chronic lying, stealing, tantrums, avoidance, gender confused, etc doctors are put into the position of being pressed to find a "disease" that can be solved with a pill, or surgery. England is dealing with the massive costs of running hospitals where the low income families served are bringing in thousands of very young children that are being treated for gross obesity, rampant teeth decay, obsessively playing video games, ingestion of chemicals etc. The real problem is that the parents are inadvertantly supporting maladaptive behaviors that if not intervened will develop into full blown PDs that are very difficult to manage in the adult child. There is nothing worse than the infantilization of an adult on full display.
I personally am trying to do my best to make a change in the manner in which my town deals with the development of PDs. At first contact, usually a preschool or Kindergarten, there should be immediate reports made when children act out frequently and home inspections that are observational should be instituted. MANDATORY FAMILY INTERVENTIONAL THERAPY would be initiated with trained therapists who can teach the parents the tools to handle normal misbehavior of children in their home environment. Right now when children "act out" the schools just move the misbehaving students from class to class spreading out the burden of chronic constant bad behavior amongst the entire student body and teaching staff. This helps no one and is very disruptive to the vast majority of other students learning environment.
The research and publications of these men , premier in their fields has been highly instructional to me; Dr. Stanton Samenow, Dr. Eduardo M. Bustamante, Dr. David M. Allen, Dr. Jorden Peterson , Dr. Jonathan Haidt, Dr. Gad Saad, Dr. Daniel Amen etc.
Thank you for your videos , the world needs to be much more informed about PDs.
Greatly agree... All PDs are basically coping mechanisms learnt or which develop as a response to an existing family dysfunction.
@@MediaEnslavedNation I know that sounds initially like a great solution. However currently Social Services are very reluctant to remove children from the home, citing a variety of reasons, some reasonable, some ridiculous. Foster homes do not have a good track record. Additionally even though the home is dysfunctional (harmful to the child) that is the only home the child knows and completely severing the parental relationship would bring more trauma.
I am watching closely a family situation right now. This dysfunction spans decades and five generations from two countries; of which all I have intimately observed, having had the opportunity to stay in their homes and watch all the characters while in play. A four year old great granddaughter's life is at stake. The great aunt (in her 40s)of the girl has gone through the San Diego Family courts to obtain primary custody from the father who is in his early 20s. The father receives Wefare, the grandfather (40s) lives off the child and her father's welfare. All three live in one room in an old hotel. No one knows where the mother is, who disappeared 3 years ago. Family members have taken the three into their (owned) homes and though the 20 and 40 year old father and grandfather are perfectly capable of working, they will not keep a job. Many including myself have found jobs for these men, and they simply walk away after a few days or weeks. The attitudes of entitlement and complete irresponsibility of the 20 and 40 year old has grated against so many of the family values that the stress was at a breaking point; that went literally to fisticuffs with the grandfather and great aunt (half siblings) taking to the street. In as such that they were told to leave. The 20 year old father will allow his daughter to live with family but as long as he retains custody (welfare check). No one else cares about the money, only about the child. So the child lives in the hotel part time and with other family in their homes most of the time. The Social worker will not remove the child even after finding her unbathed for days, wearing the same clothes for days and acting out wildly. Again , I will state, WELFARE is a complete failure. The government giving free money to the father or mother, without requiring him/her to work, does not allow for the natural progression of a healthy family to develope. Take away the welfare and the family dynamics would dramatically change; maybe not so much for the 40 year old grandfather but the 20 year old father would be forced out of sheer hunger to change. Social workers could then legally remove the child due to outrageous neglect and grant custody to awaiting family members. The "balance of power" would change. There is so much work available that NO ONE should recieve money for nothing unless you are demented or in a coma. I have a relative in a wheelchair who works at menial jobs. There is NOTHING WRONG OR SHAMEFUL about doing your very best at a menial job. The worse attitude I see every day (I meet hundreds of students and parents working in Palonar College) is the people who believe that work is "beneath them". This narcissistic attitude that can lead to a full blown personality disorder brings nothing but chaos and pain to all around the self centered Narcissist. How do you "cure" a Narcissist? Quit subsidizing their life. Provide immediate consequences to unacceptable behaviors. Be fair but firm. NEVER back down. When everyone works as a team and cuts off the coddling, pandering, subsidizing and have reasonable and fair expectations, narcissistically inclined people are left with one decision.....to look at their own accountability and choose change or move on to be a parasite off someone else. Parasitism is a main feature of PDs. It is the coup de gras of the Oppositional Defient Passive Aggressive attitude. You see I can manipulate YOU into being provisional for ME which shows how STUPID you are ( self aggrandizement, gross entitlement) and all the while I can legitimately excuse my naked CONTEMPT for you (rather than gratfulness, because you know you have been worked over and used and perhaps feel inadequate and therefore believe you deserve such contempt so you take the bait). This abusive dance is to convince you that you are to give and give and give and feel guilty if you should even entertain the single thought that you have any power let alone innate human rights. This is a relationship built on lies and corrupt coercion. It is family life a la mafioso. Family Interventional Counseling can be very effective to change the tangled and mismanaged family relationships; the generational dysfunction can be turned for the better. Counselors should act as coaches and require all the involved members to sign contracts of behaviors and consequences. When the contract is violated the consequence would be immediate. Dr. Eduardo M. Bustamante writes of one such case where the Narcissistic young man continued down the road of enduring fair consequence after fair consequence until one day HE MADE THE DECISION TO CHANGE. (It took two years of family working as a team) This is the RIGHT of all humans; to be self sovereign. This is where self esteem comes from, this is where motivation comes from and this is the place where the person arrives who KNOWS he/she and only he/she is entirely responsible for themselves. AN ADULT. Nothing is more heroic and inspiring than to see an infantilized narcissitic adult bloom into a fully functioning participating socially responsible ADULT. Which is a goal ultimately far better for society. Thank you for your insight and posting your reply.
@@MediaEnslavedNation Yes, I agree and I understand. I have followed research regarding how practical it would be to license parenting. ( Look carefully at the social consequences of China's single child program) A large body of research has been done by Dr. Stanton Samenow regarding imprisonment. He does not advocate the current legal system and the way imprisonment is used. ( the US has a much higher percentage of people in prison than any other country) . So as a society how and what is the most pragmatic way to change maladaptive behaviors? Currently our society is rewarding and supporting narcissistic behaviors, primarily giving particular attention to those who play The Victim Card. See the incredible rise of young women who are hopping on the transgender bandwagon ( Dr. Soh) . Transgenderism is merely a tool to gain attention and people respond giving faux accolades because virtue signaling has become a virtue in and of itself. Participation trophies are devaluing the pursuit of excellence in a vain attempt to "level" the playing field. Is the solution to making society "fair" to handicapped those who are the best at what they do? We a now making extraordinary racist moves by handicapping Asians because they comprise a larger percentage of students who excel in certian fields..Why arent more people up in arms about this? As for "in the womb" the person who is least able to protect him or herself is under massive attack through abortion. It doesnt matter if someone is against or for abortion; the fact is that abortion kills a sentient being. Planned parenthood did a survey once where the mothers were asked ," If you had the father in your life as a loving committed partner, would you continue the pregnancy?" (Notice the distancing wording) . Over 90% would continue "the pregnancy". So that BEGS the question , why have the abortion , what it the real truth? It comes right back to a self centered attitude where there is a litany of rationalizations....I dont want everyone to know that I'm not wanted by a partner. I dont want to answer all my friends and relatives questions. I dont want everyone to know that I'm so stupid because obviously I dont use available FREE contraception. I dont want to endure the embarrassment.I dont want to "look like a bad person" by giving the baby up for adoption, on and on and on. Really so your "embarrassment" gives you the right to secretly hide the murder of a child? It all comes back to a character that is poorly developed, putting oneself first and not taking responsibility for ones decisions in life. And by the way, I had 2 children before age 17 and 3 abortions. Availability of welfare and abortion is NOT THE SOLUTION of the development of accountability, and good character. Yes our society seems to be run by those who are PD'd, because we are an indulgent society that does not provide consistent consequences and we reward the virtue signaling of a faux victim. Anyone can observe that a person can commit crimes and if you have money and notoriety the consequences applied are not the same. When people see hypocrisy in our government that encourages contempt. There is a tsunami wave of contempt for our nation , though we are by far the the most FREE country on earth and WE NEED a sense of gratitude to right our sinking societal boat before we get submerged and face civil war in the streets. Our societal "goodness" is being flooded by faux virtues just as surely as counterfeit money can devalue the real dollar and cause a riot of inflation. So where do we start? When children first act out chronically there needs to be immediate family intervention. In the courts there should be consistently applied consequences and AGAIN FAMILY INTERVENTION. money CAN be saved. A budget often can be reorganized that would focus on more effective means to drive and support the development of good character. It can be done. All monies are available to the public if you look for it. I have pulled numbers in the college district that I work at and the money IS THETE it just needs to be reorganized. But then you have to get a "buy in". Its a lot of work , but possible.
@@carriesilvinaespinozavilla5177 Not really on board with most of what you say there. A lot of those are pretty right-wing, moral- majority, ultra-conservative views I disagree with to varying degrees.
Hi Carrie. Where do genetics fit in your perspective?
Thank you for this. I have Borderline Personality Disorder. I can agree that sometimes I idolise my husband, and yet very critical of him. Your assessment is correct, I can attest to that. I do have a very understanding husband and when I'm "acting up" I'm aware of it and usually end up apologising a lot and feeling very guilty for my critical comments. I am also Bipolar and have physical disabilities, pretty much all my joints are crumbling. I'm lucky because I have a husband who loves me as much as I love him, and he is my carer aswell. This video has really helped me. I've never been fully sure of which of my symptoms come from the BPD and which from being Bipolar. You've helped me to separate the symptoms and understand why I act this way sometimes. In the UK so I don't get any free counselling. If I want a psychiatrist, I have to pay privately or literally be in the mental hospital and very unwell. The mental health system here sucks!
I would be interested in knowing how these personality disorders in parents affects children and the child’s life trajectory.
I would as well.
I am glad Dr. Grande has brought up this content in regards to what I would refer to as side effects family members and/or friends have to encounter while dealing with individuals with personality disorders. We can not completely discontinue our relationship suffering from individuals with disorders. Nevertheless, diagnosis and treatments for individuals with personality disorders is essential.
I don’t think those channels are exaggerated about the effects off NPD on others in the “extreme form ,especially if it was a parent with the disorder, and I speak from life experience and education. However it seems possible that those channels make the severe cases seem like the norm,
This is another great video! In my experience there is often comorbitity between BPD and NPD. This topic would also make a great video :) I saw the one you made about C-PTSD and BPD, which is great! But I know a lot of people who are diagnosed with BPD (but they are not diagnosed with NPD, although they obviously have it, and their grandiose sense of self never goes down like with regular BPD. They wake up every day thinking they are the greatest and most powerful person in the world.). I think comorbidity isn't being considered enough. What does the research say? What is the percentage of people who can only be diagnosed with BPD without other PD's? And what is the maximum PD's a person can have? Is there a limit?
I just love this guy so much and ALL of his videos ! I have many disorders and these videos are always amazing !💪❤🙏
great video ❤ i love how well you explain each topic you cover.
Thank you so much!
So...the answer
Narcissistic personality disorder and Antisocial personality disorder
Thanks Dr. Grande, this information helps me to not worry so much. Many thanks.
I believe it's a showdown between Narcissists and Obsessive-Compulsive hoarders.
This was a good topic, thank you Dr. Grande.
Although I never had a course in Psychology, I was able to understand 95% of your examples on working life. 🕊️✌️
as a spouse of an avoidant..it is hard on person B. total emotional abandonment.
Great lecture doc. IMO ASPD is the most difficult, but the Borderline is a very close 2nd. I work in a psych ward at hospital, just my experience/interpretation.
Looking good Dr. Grande! Now we just need to get your spectacles updated.
I was subject to NPD abuse as a child and it has left me with vulnerability to BPD traits, such as fear of abandonment and excessive need for validation, this has also led to me pushing away people who genuinely loved me in order to 'test' that they actually did, and also having multiple partners to try to fill the unfillable void. My journey is to begin to accept that people have their own lives and are not on this planet to meet only my needs, and also to practice Buddhist meditation to not be reactive, and also to accept that life is a solitary activity and I need to get with the fact that I have to be responsible for myself and not invest in others to meet my needs. I hope this might help others who were subject to abuse. And finally to ask for forgiveness is not an excuse to commit abuse again, one has to have human dignity. I hope this might help others who were subject to abuse and who are unwittingly abusing others who love them.
you are smart, succinct and appear to be measured with strong but gentle boundaries.
I've had therapy for years. the therapist i was seeing talked about karma which was not helpful. when i told him about a painful and traumatic experience, such as being beaten up by a boy on my way home from school, he told me it was my past life karma. i have many more examples including an encounter with a sexual molester.
i believe in taking responsibility for our decisions and behavior. if more of us were willing to do so, rather than using blame, many of this country's problems would be solved.
when talking about trauma to your therapist, i would hope for gentleness, understanding and compassion. i cannot tell you the tailspin his treatment sent me in, for years. 16 years!! my self esteem was rock bottom. i was clinically depressed, having panic attacks and wanted to live in my car. i didn't know he was re-affirming my trauma. i would leave his office so devastated that he would call me to be sure i arrived home OK.
i'm better now but it was a longer and more painful experience than it should have been.
I finally figured out he was exploiting me and my insurance. i was released from his spell when he hired me to landscape his whole yard. the yard had been neglected for years. when i was done with the work, he refused to pay me. that is what it took for me to wake up. and boy did i ever stand up for myself like i had never done before. he paid me and i don't think he expected me to go after him as i did.
Have experience of a woman with HPD and the symptoms and causes I've read backed this case up 100%. A romantic relationship ends when the everyday life chimes in and they drop you like a stone! I was left high and dry and it's devastating!
Dr Grande you hit it directly on the head with your description, particularly infidelity!
I can’t believe this have not been studied. As a society we have a lot of work to do.
Very thorough! Appretiate the work. Food for the brain!
Having been married to someone with BPD was a living hell for both of us. She also had schizoid traits such as delusions and hallucinations. I am still recovering from it, and she left in 2005. It's especially hard because she died of an overdose in 2011.
I agree . Having a team member at work that has obsessive compulsive personality disorder can be very challenging in terms of staff satisfaction.
Leaine Lodoen right?
Imagine about having a lot of OCPD coworkers!
That's what happens at my work, military emergency service is loaded by tons of OCPDs. 😅
Wolf Ray now is that good or bad for national security? Thank you for your service!
@@suterfire, mostly good, because OCPDs do not delegate tasks and never quit the job until completion. Even in the middle of extreme situations, they won't back off.
The bad side is that they're extremely demanding for discipline, order and efficiency. This may drive the less experienced workers crazy.
Thank you! 😊 I try my best.
The number of potential combinations of personality disorders within an individual and how they interact with others who also have combined disorders makes for an almost endless number of possibilities. Throw in psychopathy/sociopathy, depression, bipolar, ASD, C/PTSD, regular OCD and anxiety and so on, and the challenges of diagnosis, therapy and counselling are obvious. And potentially quite dangerous for everyone involved. As for unpicking the effects of all the combined traits - that is mind blowing.
And with that said, I'm now wondering - without going through all of the possible combinations - which of the combinations would be the worst to live with. Some mental gymnastics required for that one :-)
That's a good question - I will definitely have to give it some thought and see if I can generate a good answer -
@@DrGrande My gut feeling is that NPD, paranoia and OCD are a feasible combination of the perfect match made in hell! I am subscribed to your channel because psychology has fascinated me for 20+ years (and I've lived a bit!) but still I learn more from you. Your rational, logical way of expaining disorders doesn't fit everyone's experience of 'living it', but your insightful descriptions certainly help with my overall understanding of my own experiences .
I lived with a narcissistic person for 10 years…before that person another narcissist: it was HELL both times!😤 ZERO exaggeration…both them had other disorders, too. I cried nearly every night for 20 years! I stayed in those relationships because I had Dependent Personality Disorder. I don’t need anyone’s assessment to KNOW how things were! Neither one of those people would go to a clinician’s office if their lives depended on it!
I also stayed in jobs where I came home crying every day. So much tears!
I am in a similar situation at my job now. I've had it for 22 years, but the last 5 years a coworker was promoted to manager and I went from diagnosing micromanagement, narcissism, and now obsessive-compulsive personality disorder. I felt something was wrong from my gut on day one, but didn't know how traumatizing it could become. I have PTSD from childhood, and I think I gravitate towards stability and autonomy in my life. The OCPD/Narc has been very triggering/traumatizing. I had no idea what narcissism was before this summer, and I'm just now learning about OCD/OCPD. It's the low-empathy, manipulation, gas lighting, triangulation, and devaluing that makes the OCD symptoms so abusive. I have other OCD friends and they have empathetic boundaries.
while i mostly agree, what i can add from my experience as someone with ocpd is that the inflexibility and rigidity most evident in work can actually spill out onto many other aspects of life, the nature of a personality disorder is that it is pervasive after all, so there can be problems in a relationships just in starting a consciously ongoing one at all, due to the unrealistic high-standards set for any given role be that friend parent or partner, there can be low-tolerance towards mistakes and misunderstandings that are bound to happen among any people, a voluntary connection rather than a random obligatory one can lead to expecting even more from them than one would an acquaintance, due to obsessing over what a certain kind of relationship ''ought'' to be like
people walk away less than one would think though, thankfully
in my very specific subjective case i had more difficulty making and keeping friends since its hard to find like-minded people when one's mind diverges form the average XD its troublesome to juggle trust issues and commitment issues overall
I think Avoidant personality disorder causes a HUGE problem for romantic partners as the people who have it are by definition incapable of true intimacy.
Amen to that.. Not only romantic but every kind of relationships
Annekin Sky. I’ve diagnosed with OCPD. But I have this problem and I tried to push people out. I usually wait for anything bad comes from them to stop being around. I think this is because AVPD and OCPD are in the same cluster.
That's not true! I have AVPD and I think we desire intimacy like anyone else but we also like our space as well. I think if we find the right person we are more than willing to be intimate and faithful.
After 3 failed marriages I would have to agree. The worst was the last marriage and he had a HUGE family. We were constantly having to attend huge gatherings of over 20 people just for birthdays and every other event they could think of. I hated every minute of it and would rather be alone. Most people that meet me think I am an extrovert and I am outgoing, but my tolerance for other people is down to about an hour at this point. I just want to be at home in my sanctuary with my art projects.
Dr Todd you're explanations are awesome 🧡🐬
My borderline ex wrecked havoc at work also, but because she had some paranoid characteristics. She always thought everybody was badmouthing her, looking strangely at her and so on, so she always concluded everybody was against her before even the first close interaction. And being full of anger as she was, at some point she always snapped and caused conflict. She lost jobs her entire life, staying much more unemployed than employed.
As a person diagnosed with bpd traits, I was really expecting to see bpd here...we can be really "needy" or "clingy" way too much, and thats quite hard to handle to many people, on the other hand...I've had some "friends"that were clearly narcissistic and it's HELL to deal with them, simply cause they don't seem to realise there's anything wrong with their behavior, they tend to think that they're superior to anyone else
What is most important in partner relationships is the issue of intimacy. For many people who have personality disorder the issue of intimacy is significantly impacted. Hence although outwardly the impact may appear low/moderate it is in fact significantly high because the person with PD cannot get close for whatever reason. Leaving the other person feeling alone and abandoned, If you are going to do a video on impact on relationships then you need to look at intimacy and the other factors that make for a successful marriage or partnership. This is very different to relationships with co-workers or friends who even people without PD keep at arms length. I am astonished by the lack of regard from professionals about the impact of PD on those around the individual. This I think is symptomatic of a professional which is individualised situating the issue with the person only. At the end of the day the person with with the therapist maybe once a week (if they are lucky) but they are with their partners/wives/husbands every day and if anything they are the ones doing the therapy and probably need access to ways of coping. Also the impact on children cannot be forgotten in this discussion although I appreciate this was not the topic of the video. Certainly I would welcome another detailed video looking at impact on wives/husbands/partners from the perspective of what is important to maintaining a loving relationship.
Fairly dicey effects involved with the broad of disorders and how they generally relate with others but still hanging in there with you Doctor.
Still thinking about the cherished children predicaments.
I have some kind of vibe that draws certain kinds of people, often people in distress, and often have a total stranger come and tell me their lives, right in the middle of a resale shop, or even from across a busy highway. I’ve never been afraid of any of those dear people. I have my thing, too. Personality disorders with antisocial elements are the most painful and disruptive. People like that are drawn to me, too, and they often use rage to get their way, which is a really terrifying trigger for me. My therapist told me that if the people in her practice, I was the one most easily taken advantage of. But people with issues like schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and other such problems have been very good friends to me, and I don’t even think about their mental health when I’m with them. That does not define them, but dark triad personality traits are often the trademark of the people who do the most damage.
Your videos are superb in every way. Just now I paid attention to your name, for the first time. And, upon realizing it was "Grand" I wondered how having that name might have actually shaped how you related to the world. At the very least it must have had some effect. (Funny, yes. But, true?)
Hi, thank you for these videos, they really help us to understand what we are dealing with. Question: Someone very close to me has, in my opinion, NPD, or is on some cluster B spectrum. Is anger and verbalizing somewhat violent fantasies part of a PD or would that be a whole other thing ( comorbidity ? ). I believe this person experienced a significant narcissistic injury a few years ago that made everything worse. I would love to hear about anger as a possible component.
After listening to all the categories and clusters of disorders, I have concluded that everybody I know is crazy, except me . LOL I think I'll become a hermit. For the safety of myself....and others. Hahahaha.
estelle patella me too
Oh I like this viewpoint!! LOL
Agree
This video is so interesting and I’ve learned a lot so much great information things I never thought about thank you
Thanks Doctor Grande! I work in a creative field and I think I am histrionic personality disorder.
The worst combination that often occurs in NGOs and communities like feminist is a narcissistic friend and partner who is also your boss or you work together on a project. But, I've noticed that we can work it out if we are both older (see, I tended to repeat this mistake), if the person does not have other disorders (like substance abuse) and if I'm better informed and work on changing myself and my reactions. You're right about UA-cam channels that demonize NPD. I think that most times I suffered for friends who were borderline and had substance abuse disorder. It's painful to watch somebody in that condition. My town was suddenly hit by drugs around 1999-2000 so I had no choice but see a lot of my friends becoming addicted, going crazy or die.
This is really excellent information.
I was adopted and raised alongside a child with bpd and schizophrenia. This was an old diagnosis from the 90s and he is in his 60s now. I believe that this child who was allowed to live in a home with other people destroyed all the relationships he could come in between. I have done 2 years worth of work and introspection and all I really see is him saying everything was everybody’s else fault and they were bad or wrong every time. He destroyed my adopted mother’s reality. And our relationship. He was one of those people who scathed by the system and would straighten up when his behavior was getting him close to having a severe consequence. One thing my mother wrote in her notes about him was that he seemed to be unable to understand that his actions had consequences. It’s a matter to me though of was it the chicken before the egg. I saw her enable him to get away with petty things and say “”he couldn’t help it. I manage him now and I was not told about his diagnosis entirely. To me, borderline, in this case is awful due to his unpredictability and I see that behavior as a liability to me on every level. I have given him the opportunity to live independently but I don’t believe it can be sustained. His independence is established in his mind as sneaky and childish. Looking back now, all I see is that this was sort of a big secret kept from me as I was not told the severity of his condition. He resists treatment and no one tells him what to do. Today, I would go back and charge my parent s with neglect and child abused as he ran off all rational and reasonable people due to his reputation in the family and in her social circles. I was screwed. This condition not only isolates the mentally ill person and will isolate their victim. I’m in the process of changing all of that. To me, he has only affected the quality of my life in a negative way. It’s like I was the last to know and was rewarded for trying to be the good daughter and help the family. I have no relationship with them because if I did, it wouldn’t be fair to him. It was a slow process but I see now how having an emotionally disabled person attached to you with no treatment or even told that they had a condition, slowly pushed everyone away from my life. It’s not sad, it was irresponsible of my parents and I have no idea of the impact of his behavior and my level of tolerance for being exploited by other people. My history is full of this pattern of giving in and putting up with selfish behavior. You have to not get used to a mental illness in your environment. It will take charge if given the chance. I believe much research really needs to be done on the risks of adopting a mentally dysfunctional child alongside a mentally stable child. And as his mother said in her later years, “ You gotta be careful what you get used to.”. That family of hers ended up exploiting us on any level because our father passed at a young age due to the stress. Some people just aren’t worth the trouble and so needed to be aware of what they were getting themselves and me into. These behaviors are getting out of control in this country. And the ones who really suffer are the people who don’t know how to manage it. I would have rather lived in the street than have had pity for this emotional abused who was behavior I had to settle for. No one should have to settle for anything in life because they can’t control their child’s manipulative conquest.
If you have a parent that has comorbid NPD with OCPD traits its over for you as a child. The narcissism combined with the expected perfectionism you can never reach makes you feel like a complete failure and worthless as a child and it takes years to built any sense of selfworth.
👍👏 love your channel Dr . G
people are beginning to understand that violence against others is not always physical, but that psychological violence is at least as bad or even much worse, as it is a constant stress and a constant presence, against another human being. those who are caught in such a situation know for sure that the other is not normal, but often too late, not to be affected by it. Therefore, it is also the children who are the real victims here, especially if there is no other parent or adult who can go in and shield the child from the parent who has a personality disorder, or from a parent who has a mental illness.
romantic partners, friends, coworkers covered..... You passed over their effect on children, which i would think can be most devastating in the cluster-B category.
Great overview of all the personality disorders!
As someone with BPD I agree it causes a lot of distress with my boyfriend. As much as I love him I see him struggle to keep his cool when I’m being self destructive or destructive to the relationship. We’ve been together 3 years though and I’m in treatment. It’s such a slow process but he says I’ve improved a little.
For me it was my ex husband being a covert narcissist
May I say, there's no exaggeration when I say exposure to malignant narcissism is life threatening. Constant out of the blue rage. Total confusion. Any expression dissmised if not physically threatening. Or perhaps mine was just extreme but anger and rage was his default mode. He used to watch videos on how to manipulate people, set fire to oven where we rented and I came to to find out he'd told the landlord it was me who did it. Then confronted me saying it was me trying to convince me it was indeed me. He used to get off on inflicting pain on animals when he was younger. For the duration of a Yr that I knew him he broke 5 if his phones, broke walls down, threw glasses at me, said he wish he could kick me to the ground and leave me to bleed to death. I truly believe had I not got out I may have ended up dead. Not sure whether a psychopath or malignant narcissist.
My mother is NPD and did whatever she wanted to me, I'm one of the biggest doormats I've seen.She raised me to be her "slave", a background person who follows her everywhere and helps her do whatever she wants. I finally got brave enough to leave 1.5 years ago and I'm now 37 and am beyond shocked still how much she affected me. I was molded to survive her enviornment, not become a self sufficient adult and integrate into the world. I don't know if I'll ever adapt out of this
Keep going you can do it!
Not criticising the Dr but for people seeming very negative with BPD I just want to put it out there one of my best and closest friends had BPD and shes a beautiful and wonderful soul who Ive never had an issue or conflict with.
There is next to no one who would argue against how lovely a person she us and Ive known her for going on over 20 years now. Mental health manifests in all sorts of ways even if the criteria/symptoms seems very negative (obvs excluding NPD those mofos fucked) and my mate has done alot of therapy and worked hard to be where she is today we need to remember people make choices to be better and are all different.
Uh I said BPD not NPD.
@Judging Budgie Yes, it is a myth that NPD cannot get better, cannot develop empathy, cannot have a conscience, feel regret, etc. In the case I'm thinking of, it was faith in God that changed the NPD into anew person, albeit still with some of the traits (brain wiring?).
I reckon OCPD can have a pretty high distress level since they tend to be quite critical of others and violate boundaries trying to make things thair idea of "right".
The perfectionism is also used against themselves. As someone diagnosed with OCPD, I avoid romantic relationships because I am imperfect and have tremendous guilt and anxiety about being called out on on all my flaws. The fear of being criticized for all my imperfections keeps me single. As a child, I sought to be a perfect robot to avoid abuse. I have other diagnosed comorbidities, but uncertain as to what other PDs may be present. Certainly some avoidant tendencies. Before I had children (& married/divorced), I just worked. Work was #1 and my entire existence. I excelled. It was a pretty simple life. Social obligations interfered. Once I had children, I had to give up perfectionism, because I saw striving for perfection would ruin their childhood and take up all my time. That's when my ADHD and disorganization became less hidden. Much harder for me to be a mom and homemaker than simply being a professional. So I had to just let it go. In my older years, I think my OCPD has lessened, but I don't put myself out there and try to fit into other's expectations for socializing. I'm very introverted with social anxiety and get to now live a simple life with many pets. Thank God my adult daughters like me. They are the two people in my life which I have genuinely close relationships with. They bring acceptance, love and so much joy.
good analysis of ocd, ocpd, covering things beyond symptoms.
I have Borderline Personality Disorder but I am not a classic Borderline. I was diagnosed as a quiet Borderline so instead of lashing out I keep it all inside. I have never gone out to hurt or manipulate people instead my life has been quiet the opposite, from partners who drank and hit me and abused me and I put up with it out of fear, fear of being alone, fear of not being good enough because I believed every bad thing said about me. I am very aware of having BPD so I try to be mindful of it so I will constantly think to myself is this my BPD making me feel this way. People would always say I was fake because the way I acted would depend on who I was around but it wasn't about being fake it was my way of trying to be what everyone wanted me to be and I spent so long doing that and trying to be good enough that when I was asked what made me happy I truly didn't know.
that sounds very exhausting. I tried to love a BPD back into health and sanity and it almost killed me. I truly wish you healing.
@@misssaiwasn6935 thanks hun I have been through therapy and have learnt a lot if my triggers, i tend to think am I being attacked or is that just how I feel. So I sort of assess the situation before reacting. Being with an alcoholic is making my progress hard tho, I feel the self harm thoughts coming back as everything else is out of my control.
It's ridiculous you even have to defend yourself, but the abuse thrown at borderlines by what appears to be sadists is a scandal. I have quiet/self destructive BPD and it sucks
@@aeris2001 I am currently back on the waiting list for DBT therapy after nearly ending up in a mental health hospital, even after 5 years of drunken abuse I feel broken that he hates me.
Thank u for your great work . Greetings from Germany ❤❤❤❤❤
I wish you had included parent/ children relationships. I have an adult daughter with BPD who has figuratively beaten me down to the point of me having a breakdown. What do you recommend for that?
What caused her BDP
They don’t care who they hurt not even their children
Interesting observation Todd, this is a debate regards to personality disorders that prove to be the most harmful and stressful towards that of others! Select subjects that exhibit Narcissistic Personality Disorder do contain contructs that make those subjects all the more likelier to be in denial of their traits that are described in their cluster groups! To them this reveals a pattern between a egoistic grandiose pride that is obsessed about being at the centre of attention thus gaslighting that of others. A slang term that is becoming quite popular is that of "small man syndrome". The grandiose component is however a typical trait amongst those who are overly devoted with their jobs that often includes a strict dress code!