Spotting the Signs of a Covert Narcissist - Learn how to recognize the clues of a covert narcissist
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- Опубліковано 6 січ 2018
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Do you know a covert narcissist? Learn about the condition and how to manage it.
This video is going to explore the covert narcissist and examines their self-concept, interpersonal, social, and ethical views and behaviors. I will discuss management techniques to better control relationships and lessen the hurt these individuals tend to cause.
Daniel J. Fox, Ph.D., is a licensed psychologist in Texas, international speaker, and a multi-award-winning author. He has been specializing in the treatment and assessment of individuals with personality disorders for over 20 years in the state and federal prison system, universities, and in private practice. His specialty areas include personality disorders, ethics, burnout prevention, and emotional intelligence.
He has published several articles in these areas and is the author of:
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Complex Borderline Personality Disorder: How Coexisting Conditions Affect Your BPD and How You Can Gain Emotional Balance. Available at:
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Antisocial, Narcissistic, and Borderline Personality Disorders: A New Conceptualization of Development, Reinforcement, Expression, and Treatment. Available at: tinyurl.com/2anv8dww
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Dr. Fox has given numerous workshops and seminars on ethics and personality disorders, personality disorders and crime, treatment solutions for treating clients along the antisocial, borderline, narcissistic, and histrionic personality spectrum, emotional intelligence, managing mental health within the prison system, and others. Dr. Fox maintains a website of various treatment interventions focused on working with and attenuating the symptomatology related to individuals along the antisocial, borderline, narcissistic, and histrionic personality spectrum (www.drdfox.com).
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Citation: Wink, P. (1991). Two faces of narcissism. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 61(4), 590-597.
The coverts i've had to deal with weren't shy, they were quiet.
JD Connie thanks, so happy for you well done
I agree. Sneaky or deceiving is a better word then shy or vulnerable imo. Because they are NOT shy or vulnerable at all. They are vindictive, vengeful, mean and nasty. While pretending to be so good. 🤮 They are worse than an overt.
Good description. Mine too. There IS a difference
Sneaky quiet
And as the saying goes..you gotta watch the quiet ones!!
They mimic normal behavior to everyone except their targeted supply person. To the untrained eye they seem normal.
Which further invalidates the covert narc's target. Coverts will invalidate their scapegoated partner in every way possible by playing the phony 'victim' role to others, and blaming and raging at the scapegoat.
When you suspect covert narcissism, look at their public behavior. There will be an almost strange 'awkwardness' to them from time to time.
@@GeorgiaIsOnMyMind I have found quite the opposite. Often their public image is immaculately crafted to display themselves in what they see as the best possible light.
@@cookiebob_ Believe it or not, your comment is actually not the opposite of mine. Having had first hand experience with one, yes, their carefully crafted image is designed to deceive, but its usually members of the public or those who don't know them at close range who won't see the put on. YOU, on the other hand, being the person who is close to them will be able to pick up bits and pieces that don't add up, from time to time, especially when the mask suddenly slips I.e. think of the calm & collect partner suddenly breaking out into a fit of rage, and then suddenly straightening up, or the devoted wife or girlfriend who eyes other men when you are out in public (almost sizing them up for her next meal). Most others wouldn't be able to notice the difference but YOU will. That is what I meant by my comment. Even amongst the smooth 'perfection', there will be an awkwardness.
@@GeorgiaIsOnMyMind I do agree yes
Being in this kind of relationship has nearly killed me literary, the toxicity of it has had me in fight or flights sympathetic arousal for over 3 decades.
The neglect, withholding, invalidation, devaluing, the distortion of reality, the lies, dear God , the lies to fit his version of reality, ( gaslighting) the silent treatment, the deception, the mind reading, the power and control through passive aggressive methods, the rigidity, the total inflexibility, the abysmal deficiency of empathy and compassion, the eternal self referencing, the perpetual deflection, the lack of communication, the lack of reciprocity,, the lack of accountability , the blame shifting, the projection., stonewalling, oh, oh , the pain, the torture, the crazy making behaviour. Death at times seems preferable to the complete disconnection and detachment these people have for their intimate partners.
Oh, the insufferable inhumanity of being with these people.
The suffering is profound.
This is relatable.
If I had somewhere to go I would have been gone.
Marina Obbiettivo Dear God I hope you got out of that place. The peace of Jesus Christ be with you. Much love stranger. Take care of you and be kind to yourself.
marina you are not alone I go thru this all the time for three decades trying to cope but you must work on yourself get enough money and run I am slowly making my plans good luckand god bless you
And they count on that. Predators all of them.
Passive aggressive behavior is very toxic. Never underestimate or dismiss it.
Covert is in my experience becoming very overt when extremely injured or provoked/challenged. Especially by the truth.
Exactly!
you dont need to agitate things or make others uncomfortable unless it's a situation you cannot cope with otherwise. We hold the Dogs back and are enough self-aware to make sure we act civilized and blend in the society like normal people (which we really want and long for because it gets lonely out there for us). But you shouldnt fuck with us as we believe people have not beeen put on this earth to take abuse from others and let them get away with it. And when it gets to that we have to let the Dogs out. And then you're all fucked, especially the completely unaware overts who think they're the kings of the world and expose all their stupidy and flaws to the rest of the society. And also their weaknesses and sof-spots.
Ammar Ayoub
I’m confused...
reading that it clearly appeared to be from a covert narcissist.. until I got to the part about the overt narcissist you appear to separate yourself to such an extent it makes me believe the person writing does not believe them self to be a narcissist ..
I hope that made sense
This!!
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“You will never make someone feel bad enough to do good things” genius🙏🏻👑❤️
I would disagree but only in very rare cases. I am an intuitive empath and I could be made to feel bad enough to do good things.
@@bokkunaa I agree when it comes to us victims, but NOT for an npd.
It’s a paradox that people who grew up with a narcissistic parent learned the lie that they could influence & have more power over others than is healthy. It’s a form of magical thinking sadly that is born out of being abused aka controlled. So later the narc controls like they were controlled & the significant other try’s to guilt or manipulate change the same way their narcassitic parents did. It’s all the same upbringing it’s just one house created a narc & the other house created a more bpd or failed narc. Who later in life feed of each other an call it love. They aren’t lying & believe they love each other. Because this is the only version of love they know until therapy & healing.
This is the salient point for me- I spend so much time over explaining and trying to get him to reason- I have become quick at pointing out what is obviously wrong in a way where he cant deny it. I thought that when he saw that he was obviously being unreasonable that he would be more mindful.
He learned to apologized and admit that he was wrong in the face of the smoking gun but oh lawd did he make me pay later at a time where I am in the worse condition - after a death, medical emergency he decides to bring up what I thought we already discussed was unacceptable. He only admitted he was wrong because his mask was pulled off- not because he realized he was being hurtful and could do better. Dealing with some who may have covert NPD is frustrating and something I honestly cannot live with unless he gets therapy.
this was a significant statement for me too, its easy to force people into "behaving" as we do sometimes with children.
One of the ways I've learned to protect myself while talking with the covert narcissist in my life is to control what and how much I say to him. He used to thrive on getting me to spill my emotions, hurts, joys, etc. but he would never, ever tell me his (I now know it's because he doesn't have any of his own and lives off of others) but he would also use me against me. It is so freeing to keep me to myself - I do not need to give "me" away to anyone. Thank You for this video - my kids and I found it very helpful.
Wow.. good points..
Same but now now feel like I have narc traits because I've withdrawn from my narc to protect myself.
That's what I just decided to do tonight. I'm not gonna say anything more meaningful than "pass the salt". In fact I'm probably not going to eat with her. I just got out of a relationship with a covert narcissist and now she's my roommate. It's maddening, but I think what you suggested is going to help. If I don't feed her by telling her my hopes, fears, dreams, where I'm going, or for how long, then at least I won't be sharing me with somebody who refuses to share their authentic self with me. I imagine it is freeing, and we're about to see. Thanks for your suggestion. I had already made this decision to basically go silent but seeing your comment helped reinforce that it's the right thing.
Wow!! He would use me against me. Same here. Well said.
THIS. ex's mother would over-blaze me and I could see her face change, because I would finally relax enough and just start talking. She ate. it. up.
I am sorry, but the only way that you can heal is to leave the situation, whether this is a partner, friend, co- worker, parent... you cannot change them. You will become ill if you stay....
Sometimes that's all you can do though. Xxxx
we are in no contact. The best choice ever. The covert has no remorse. they have no empathy.
Me too. I suggest it highly.
"Wow, way to judge others, like you're perfect," is something a narcissist would say to flip that on you. "Remember when you screwed up last week, and it was barely anything but I just blew up about it, and it has nothing to do relating to this but I'll always rub it in your face to make you feel bad when I need to deflect or distract by changing the subject/misdirecting.
Man, these people are straight nuts.
Grace heart15 Yes, the best decision ever!
@Starscream91 No contact is pretty clear closure I would say. Usually by that stage pretty much everything else has been said.
Yeah... I am in no contact with my father. So sad... For years I wanted to please him so much, but never was good enough. He always called me stupid.
I was good at school - still was stupid in his playbook . He told I should never go to college, just to get lowest job possible. I went to college, graduated - I still was too stupid to him. I wanted to prove him - went for phd. After I defended my dissertation, his reaction was - only stupid people can award you phd.
Our family life is so damaged because of him, but for years we did everything trying to get just a little compliment from him, instead he was telling that nobody in the world suffered more than him because of how awful we're.
It really helps me when i look at them as children acting out in adults bodies. The backhand compliments really don't sting then
Children have an excuse. The Narc knows what they are doing. That's the difference. Excusing their behavior on immaturity is a set up for further abuse, and it's ironically not loving to them to put up with their abusive style of relating.....much less what it actually does to you. I guess you have to decide whether they are healthy for a relationship. Forget the Narc label.
Open Face Studios I agree it's certainly not an excuse or a reason to tolerate the behaviour rather a tool to use
You are speaking for yourself, right?
@@bizprofilessactown Its not a matter of excusing them. It's a matter of understanding what is going on so you can decide what you need to do.
know thyself yeah- act like babies
My greatest help in living with a covert narcissist was practicing self love. I loved myself right out of the relationship. Boundaries grew out of that, as well. As I no longer treated myself poorly, I certainly would not allow anyone else to.
👐🏽👐🏽👐🏽
So true, once you get counselling to reprogram your thinking like CPT ( cognitive processing therapy ) which I have been doing , once you have self-respect and love 4 yourself you won't allow somebody else to disrespect you. Love ❤
YES!!!!! ME TOO!
Exactly, he twitch me self love and be happy with myself. Never swallow his misery. After 22 y I just realized he was an ultracovert…like a sicopath…he had a hidden life all along…played the dumbs, poor guy. Still now. Just the way it is…poor guy, the victim of every ine
Dr Fox , where in Texas are you based in?
Thank you so much!
I am discovering the hidden abuse, and the ultracovert ways..I identify almost all of them, and by the comments too. I though he was evasive attachment…..no….he is ultra mega covert…the victim type…thanks
my mother is a covert narcissist, i’ve only recently realised this during one of my therapy sessions. now, after years of being gaslighted, manipulated and parentified, it is so hard for me to accept that MY feelings are important. that i have to look after MYSELF over anybody else.
my mom fits the description of a covert narcissist 100% and my dad just feeds into the delusional self-pitying image she has of herself. he always told me to be nice to her, that i should know what she’s been through and thus look after her and when she yells at me, not to yell back and consider how SHE’s feeling. It was always just mom mom mom; my feelings weren’t valid.
i am still living with them, so i still struggle with this everyday. i really hope i can get out of this toxic environment soon, it is hard to stay sane.
Best of luck. I hope you find the resources you need to move on. Your quote struck a nerve. Your father's comment is blatant manipulation. Don't fall for it. See it for what it is.
Same situation for me. Took my father dying and everyone moving out for her to act any different, and even then it appears to be just that she realizes she needs to play nice or she will play alone.
Stay strong, keep your goals in focus. It’s a long road, but it does get better
@@silverwurm
"Play nice or play alone"
Hmmm
Me too.
Hang in there! It gets better, the worst is over.
Reach out to me if you need to.
They watch from their throne, quietly. Judge quietly for the most part. They covertly insult you and try to remind you that you're nothing. Their backhanded compliments can somewhat be written off as a joke, a joke that's not funny to anyone but them.
It’s called ….passive - aggressive ….and they covertly INSULTING YOU !
Backhanded compliments are the only compliments that hurt.
@@fishstickbio594 It's not as covert as they think. Even our teen and now our toddlers pick up on the degradation.
Yes exactly right. Xxxx
I just ended a relationship with a covert narcissist. It wasn't until just a couple of months ago that I even realized that the term covert narcissism existed. Yet the behavior of this woman was quite inconsistent. She could not take any accountability for her actions, and would always project the blame on me. She would constantly bring up how I needed to improve myself in a very loving way. Yet I later realized that this was her way of gaslighting me -- "gaslighting" yet another term I never heard of until I got involved with this woman. She would constantly say that I didn't understand her, or that I had no compassion for her. And, if I ever challenged her behavior, she would always come back with, "that's not true!" What I also didn't realize was that I discovered that she lied about having sex with a very sleazy guy. I was able to get her to admit her lying about this affair, but it wasn't until later that I realized that she would mold the "truth" [lie] constantly. She was most definitely a pathological lier. As a result of being in a relationship with her for nearly a year, I began to do more and more research on NPD, only to discover that her traits paralleled so many very clear descriptions of an overt narcissist. So, when she tried to pull the wool over my eyes recently -- along with constantly finding ways of criticizing me, and judging my behavior as I "haven't arrived yet" -- I simply put all the pieces together. And, by reviewing some archived texts that are magically saved in the cloud, I was able to uncover a host of lies that she was telling me. Lying in a relationship simply is a breach of trust that I cannot tolerate. So, I ended it right there and then. This was just a couple of days ago. What I've discovered perhaps more than anything else is how violated I feel. She had said and done so much to manipulate me while playing with my passion and my emotions as her method of control. I honestly find it all quite disgusting how someone can be so cruel and abusive without having any conscience of their actions.... all the while coming off as some deeply loving and caring person. She is truly a master con artist. It's as though she had robbed a dear part of my heart simply to feed her own supply like a drug addict .This has been a lesson that I will never forget.
Same
Excellent I'm sorry to hear that. Xxxx
The covert I’ve dealt with is actually semi social and full of superficial charm
@@judyscheiber3661 it’s true. They’re true predators
@@janicebing9819 Absolutely
They can be shy, quite, somewhat social, could be talking to you're old friends and family it's hard to catch specially if there all like that and you're family
My wife
They can be. Xxxx
My mom... it’s like trying to argue with a brick wall
My BF same, he is always right, even when he is not.
Same here. I'm sorry if you're dealing w a mom who is a narcissist ... it can be very painful. I know my mom is a covert. Her own mom was a narcissist too. If she does something wrong she will never admit it. She will turn things around and make it seem like shes the victim...gaslighting, passive aggressive bs, taking delight in making those around her miserable. Idk about anyone else but it's so draining. I wish you could just talk through things but how can we work through a problem when the other person denies everything!
@@ivy3839 🙄 its like they live in a different world and they can manipulate people into thinking they are the victim if you call them out.
Am I right ladies?
@Dead Eyes89 not any more , the post is 1 year old . No more .. but thanks for asking !!! Free, happy and dating !!! Wooohoo
I ended a relationship with a covert narcissist recently, when a striking failure of empathy alerted me to the lie. Excellent scientific and clinical knowledge. Thank you.
What happened as narcissist are created not born. It’s usually a childhood issue the the culprit.
Lies and Infidelity is a very serious issue to deal with and it’s a major threat to most marriages and relationships.Scars left behind from a narcissist husband is hard to erase from the mind. I was reluctant at first about finding the truth about my cheating husband but I’m glad I finally took the courage for it .I got help from Cyber Hack Solutions as he helped clone my cheating husband’s phone and I got access to all his phone call logs, emails, text messages both deleted texts and also social media chats; whatsApp , Facebook, Instagram without having access to his phone because he is mostly out of town due to the nature of his work and I was able to track his location too, all I provided was his phone number to this wonderful hacker. This was very revealing for me as he’s a serial cheater until I got into his phone and ended things.I’m glad to uncover his, lies, secrets and Infidelity. You can contact this amazing Hacker David via gmail (cyberhack003) or text and call on his phone and WhatsApp : +15303784744
@@Neneham1966 anyway I’m a grownup now & I have to responsible for how I rest others you can try it now later or never your choice
I'm just blown away at the way his mind works and how he tries to convince me that my reality is completely wrong and I'm the one that needs a mental health eval.IF IT QUACKS AND WALKS LIKE A DUCK,ITS A DUCK!! NOT A PIG!!
@@Neneham1966 I disagree she treated plenty of people decently while abusing me. I’m not confused about what abuse is either. I was hit as a small child for years. I don’t abuse people I’m in relationships with. She does. Because she wants to and because she can. A rapist most likely comes from a traumatic background too. They go to jail.
So on point. And so, so, sooo difficult when they're family and will never recognize their problem, so you're just left with "protecting yourself" and walking away.
You're correct. Sometimes we have to protect ourselves. I wish you well.
@@DrDanielFox Thank you. 💜
@BMC Bandlab Artist and Music Review True. It's some sort of chain..
@BMC Bandlab Artist and Music Review you're right, I hadn't thought about it..
true 😭😰
That means only one thing: run. As fast as u can. No looking back.
I know a covert narcissist. Dealing with him is exhausting. When his subtle tactics don't work, he begins withholding and withdrawing. When that doesn't get the reaction he seeks, he then becomes passive aggressive, acting like he's very upset about something. When the bait is taken, oh hey you look upset, what's on your mind - all hell breaks loose. Other times I'm held responsible for entertainment, maybe Saturday night, we got no real plans, just sitting around watching netflix. He will become agitated. The more iignore, the more he ramps up, doors closing hard, mumbling. Something on your mind? Narc response: here we are doing nothing! I never get to have any fun! Just keep staring at the tv! [Door slam]
Doesn't matter how delicately i engage, it's always the same. It's my job to make sure he's having fun. The more beer he drinks, the more overt he becomes in his behavior. The next day it's like nothing ever happened, and if i try to bring it up, then he acts injured.
Being with narcs is just so draining! After dealing with one for years. I have no room for another one. I have learned to disassociate myself from people exhibiting narcissistic behavior. If socializing with them is inevitable, I protect myself by not becoming emotionally involved. I look at them like a specimen in a laboratory that I need to handle objectively. But how do you use this technique when your narc is family? That my friend is bloody hard. I wish you well.
Right about the “specimen.” That’s all they are. No heart 💜 no soul. An amoeba.
😞Yep, pretty much😒
People used to say to me, "You must have the patience of a saint!". But I'm thinking- Nope, just keeping alive til I make my escape😳.
It was touch and go there for a while, but my freedom is finally a permanent state🎉!
Ugh the similarities. You just described it perfectly. 😢
I'm Sorry to hear that. Xxxx
Wife narcissist has made amazing progress after 3 years of therapy! The first year was so hard. She was very resistant. But me and her therapist both talk to her her into staying and being honest. After a year progress really started . She is so much more empathetic and caring . Less self centered.
I did however give her an ultimatum… I said in sickness and in health and I meant mentally healthy too.
I said I would stay if she got help. It took a long time but it has been so worth it and I am so glad I did not give up on her. First step was creating boundaries and not letting them fluctuate. I’m only writing this that it may give someone Some hope for somebody they love or for a narcissist having some clarity. You can overcome this but it takes honesty and hard work.
I hate to burst your bubble, but she's manipulating you. The part of their brain that deals with empathy doesn't function - THEY'RE NOT CAPABLE OF IT!
I wish you well x
Or she has not narcissist personality disorder
You can’t love some one of this disorder. Either she doesn’t have it or
Is using you. You may love her but sooner or later you’ll be replaced. She will or has already cheated on you and will leave you when you get cancer or sick. They all do this.
Don’t forget she can fake everything including “getting better”. Read the book “psychopath free”
@@dahliafiend narcissistic personality disorder does not equal psychopathy (ASPD), they are separate disorders.
Great insight. I love the gentle way you speak. After dealing with abusive people my whole life I find that so restful, comforting and healing.
Wise people often tend to speak softly. It's kind of a beautiful quality for one to have.
I agree
Yes it really is awwwww Bless you Huni. Xxxx
You didn’t mention that these backhanded “compliments” are an expression of jealousy. They want to degraded anything that they don’t possess and that includes beauty, money, status, personality and even race. You have to recognize the comments for what they are and realize it reveals how you appear better than them.
You are so right, in my NPD workbook I address those specifically.
And this comment IS NARCISSISTIC ! That's all of the things NARCISSISTS ARE OBSESSED WITH ! This WHOLE WORLD IS A INSANE ASYLUM !
@@militaryranger0831 I'm a covert narcissist I just realized. Whew I'm nearly suicidal at this point.
I have every characteristic he mentioned at the start.
@@militaryranger0831
Good on u that you became of it. Awareness is the starting point. I salute u for being so brave to own it.
You are absolutely correct
How do you deal with a cover narc? Same as the overt, keep interaction to an absolute minimum, because every interaction you pay a price...
Hi Marina - I have been with my covert narcissist husband 31 years and I love how you articulate the abuse. A friend asked me why I didn't see the abuse before! But it's so subtle. What he did was mainly withold, affection, communication, intimacy, eye contact is a big one - and of course everyone loves him. It's so unfair, but I am working on getting away but it ain't easy.
Love to us all. C x
+Charmaine Doherty build your sense of self and do what helps you grow and your decisions for you will help propel you forward. Be well.
Yep,, mine is an expert at the silent treatment....
Charmaine Doherty Omggg that no eye contact crap! I thought I was the only person who experienced this! I am so glad you brought that up! Omg! I remember telling a coworker one time “I don’t understand why he stares ahead when I talk and he walks away too.” When I confronted him omg he said,”Oh so I’m supposed to stare into your eyes or what?!”
You are still trying to get away? I’ve tried to get a divorce over a year of him not answering my paperwork and I have another packet I have to write out and turn in! Ugh!
So much has happened! They are very sneaky so be careful hon. I know! 27 years here too!
Im still in marriage after 18 years..... getting advice currently.... sneaky money games im enduring. so sneaky. the no eye contact thing, i think ive been asking him to look at me for about 10 years. he played this weird eye diversion game with me when we first were together - about the first 4 years.... I always thought it was weird. now I know it was part of his inability to be intimate. he just cant do it. I'm so worn down from him, anxiety, fear, paranoia.... its validating to hear others' comments. thank you.
Apparently, my Narc was a ”virgin”
My husband is a covert narcissist and I have learned to be quiet and grey rock when he starts in on me. There is really no way to extract myself as he won’t stop and if I walk away, he says to the kids “oh look! She’s walking away because she doesn’t have any facts to back up her side” or he will follow me into my bedroom and continue the conversation until he can get me to see things his way. 23 yrs of being worthless and trying to pour myself into someone who can’t receive my love. I am not a victim any more. I am a strong woman who is seeking a divorce. I almost forget who I am anymore. Or what I think or like. If I had a difference of opinion, I was the enemy. My children are showing signs of becoming just like him. That breaks my heart. My precious babies are now 23, 17 &12. They treat me with the same disrespect and contempt as he does, and he laughs and encourages it.
Good for you! You need support! I highly recommend finding a therapist. You wrote this 4 months ago I hope you're doing well. Narcissists are notorious for abusing the courts system. If you find yourself in a custody battle you're in for a wild ride. Family court is completely different than criminal courts and judges have a lot of discretion. Judges are often manipulated by a narcissist that's hellbent on a mission. Narcissists are excellent manipulators and can even turn your own children against you. I've seen it happen first hand. Ive seen people lose their children and children hate a parent bc they were brainwashed by a narc....
Do research! Get a lawyer that understands what kind of person he is. I wish you the best! Take care of yourself! 😊💜
If someone is a covert narcissist they *can* change. Your husband just does not need to. He needs to get kicked in the face over and over again. Torture him and have fun. He deserves it.
Or take the kids and walk away. That is the healthiest way.
Triangulation is just evil..I have a toddler with my narc..I'm worried he is going to triangulate with her..
Sending you love. Hope that you are able to walk away someday from the tragedy of someone like that. Leaving may set an example for your kids, as well.
Lies and Infidelity is a very serious issue to deal with and it’s a major threat to most marriages and relationships.Scars left behind from a narcissist husband is hard to erase from the mind. I was reluctant at first about finding the truth about my cheating husband but I’m glad I finally took the courage for it .I got help from Cyber Hack Solutions as he helped clone my cheating husband’s phone and I got access to all his phone call logs, emails, text messages both deleted texts and also social media chats; whatsApp , Facebook, Instagram without having access to his phone because he is mostly out of town due to the nature of his work and I was able to track his location too, all I provided was his phone number to this wonderful hacker. This was very revealing for me as he’s a serial cheater until I got into his phone and ended things.I’m glad to uncover his, lies, secrets and Infidelity. You can contact this amazing Hacker David via gmail (cyberhack003) or text and call on his phone and WhatsApp : +15303784744
Covert Narcissists despite everything you hear about psychopaths and sociopaths are pure evil. I just ended a relationship with one about 6 months ago, absolutely worst experience in my life. Don't ever date one, they will kill your soul.
21 years with mine and it took many months of completely grey rocking him to finally have the space to heal. I discovered that all these mystery physical symptoms that were so bad, I basically couldn’t work anymore, totally disappeared. It was the stress of being with a covert narcissist. No one believes it’s that bad, so you’re very isolated in that situation. I came to a place where I became very ok with being totally alone. It has been dramatic how I’m rebounding in my life.
@@somerandomyoutubechannel5816 I totally feel that . I have to learn to be more positive and passive
You most go to a therapist..😏👎But they are the one that are not normal.
They are so mean ..and devil has many off this friends .they set you up..every time..backstebbers and everything you like they going to destroy it
.
Completely agree! I think theyre demonically possessed.
Kill your soul- yup I think that is the goal.
Based on my personal experience (father overt narcissist, ex a covert narcissist, sister a covert narcissist) this is a fixed personality disorder and they do NOT change. Their brain in wired differently (early childhood trauma, fall on the head, illness that caused the brain damage, etc) and they completely lack empathy and an ability to self reflect. They created a false self to survive and healing would require the false self to die. They won’t do it. They project and vomit their rage and negative emotions onto others (they only have four emotions that they have access to: anger, fear, (mistrust) jealousy and envy) (I think those are the four of my memory is correct. The point is only negative emotions is what these demons experience). There is no light in these hollow empty shells, they cannot bond or connect with other humans, they mimic what they see others do but they don’t FEEL love and connection themselves.
They love YOUR light and wish they had it (like a brat child who envies a shiny new toy another kid has). They are envious that you have goodness and light and love and a nice car or house or money or a special skill or talent) and like a greedy brat, they want to STEAL it from you; i would go as far as saying they wish to take it, get rid of you and to become you (not like you but to actually become YOU). Like any vampire, they first have to drink your blood, destroy the host (kill your spirit) and them move on to other fresh sources of blood and light because they are unable to self generate it. It is only death and destruction with these demons. Lean about these fixed personality disorders and know that even if they learn to modify their behaviors it is only method acting. Under the mask lies the souless black empty hole out to annihilate you. Personally , I believe this is a spiritual battle and these demons were sent into your life so you can heal your childhood wounds, learn boundaries and shine your light in this world. Take this challenge on. Get out and heal and make a difference.
K Bhogal I’m curious if they can change at all. I have narcissistic and manipulative birth parents and a covert narcissistic brother who is 14 months older than me. I’ve also battled with my own narcissistic behaviors that made me emotionally and verbally abusive towards others and self destructive, almost destroyed my marriage with my self destruction- but i also always felt empathy and connection with others, it’s like I’d been battling two seperate souls within the sane body. I chose to face all of the demons, went to therapy, and used psychedelic mushrooms to break down the walls in my mind and reconnect my brain. These videos are also great. I’m still integrating what I’m learning, but I believe psychedelics and working on my begaviors with hyper awareness greatly helped me.
I can really relate to this! After 25 years of utter devastation thinking there has to be some goodness deep inside this man, I can't see it anymore. He seems to be an empty shell. And I'm getting that it's been a journey to heal all my childhood wounds and shine my light! I don't need that in my life any more!! God give me the strength to get out and stay out of this marriage.
Whooooooa. Yes. Sent to heal childhood trauma. I think you are spot on here.
Thank you for your story.
Wow.. I just wrote my experience above and then looked at yours! Yes! Method acting!!!! And yes.. I have learned to heal so many childhood wounds because of it.. But still stuck. I want out now.. praying for a solution to come soon.
I deal with my friend being a covert narcissist. It's always the world doing her wrong, never is it her fault. I used to try and help her see things differently, trying new techniques for dealing with difficult parents, boyfriend, friends etc., until I realized that the common denominator was her.
I’ve fully realised the same about a friend of mine. I’ve realised she gets in her own way but she sees it as life being against her. She’s not going to change so I don’t respond when she goes down the rabbit hole. Fortunately I’m relocating 4.5 hours away so I know the interaction will change due to geography but I need to be more acutely aware of these signs so I don’t become receptive to covert narcissists - hope you’ve created healthy boundaries with your friend and always open to any tips you’ve picked up. X
Covert sibling, have had to go no contact, best feeling ever.
here's a story about a covert narcissist I knew. (this isnt the worst thing he's ever done but it illustrates the weird kind of self sabotaging and self victimising thing he would do): At one point he had a group of friends, they were going to take a group holiday together. Right before the holiday one of them takes him aside and gently asks if on the trip he could not complain so much about how much he hates his job because it was kind of bringing peoples mood down (he would do this constantly, complain over and over about his job until you got sick of the topic). That friendship group? He cancelled the holiday and cut them out. that little intervention to TRY and tell him to stop being so negative was taken as a massive betrayal, them all talking about him behind his back and "judging me because they all have *good* jobs and I dont"- but no one was judging him FOR his job, they were judging him for the constant complaining about it...
My ex had zero empathy and abhorred emotion. He found it to be a weakness. He lied a lot and had multiple affairs. He wasn’t unstable as far as jobs. In fact, he’s an extremely regimented, highly disciplined school principal. His teachers think he’s amazing and sweet. He’ll buy the staff goodies to eat, then call them “pigs to a trough” behind their backs. He doesn’t show anger to them because he doesn’t care enough to have that emotion. He is so good at hiding his narcissistic traits, that after 11 years with him, I’m still confused about what just happened (he abruptly went silent with no warning a few weeks ago).
Silent treatment? Which is emotionally abusive
What he shows on the outside (little emotion) isn't tied to what happens on the inside. It's a facade or cover up
Exactly my dad
I spent 3 hours of my time last night lying through my teeth to my narc.. I just made up some bs. Kinda how he does me.... I believe he's the covert type as it took 8 months before I realized he was ruining my self esteem slowly with..."you look "kinda" nice today" "oh baby I only meant you look nice but you know I have no way with words, don't take it that way"....."why are you so sensitive!!??" "Why r YOU so insecure??"...."I love you no matter what you look like" (insert smirk here)....afterward, I told him everything I said was a complete lie as he stared at me in a familiar confusion... I admitted that I made the things I said up in order to confuse him bc the way he treats me leaves me stunned and confused. Did I waste my time? Probably, but that's beside the fucking point. It was the longest convo we ever had that I wasn't interrupted by him. Anyway, I'm on my way back home now, 18 hours away. I just love me more than him and now he knows it 🙏❤🙏 my famous last words to my ex narc... "I'll see you around "baby"... you MUST KNOW that I LOVE YOU, no matter what, Right???"......✈✈✈✈👌
Dr. Daniel Fox I must sound completely mad - guess I am 😭
Yes....it's better to be with someone you can grow with. But if you are in a psycho Narcissistic relationship.... it's a life and death issue that if you don't extract yourself from and find a way to protect yourself.....you could end up dead, in jail, or any number of unthinkable outcomes because you couldn't see the reality of what was going on. It doesn't get better, it gets dangerous. I wish I had someone tell me the truth early on.
Manipulation is not love. It's rebellion and in the Bible it's equated to witchcraft, which is evil. Evil and love don't really go together. Kari. Jesus loves you and in this relationship we are transformed and built up so we can love and experience love. Outside of Him it's all darkness and groping around for hooks of acceptance and value. Grab a Bible and begin reading Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John. You will be surprised what you find. Jesus didn't come to make people churchians. He came to give us life and life to the fullest. Don't buy the church version of Jesus.....discover him for yourself. Ha.... there's my sermon for ya.
Open Face Studios God helped me to get 18 hours away 🙏 safe and sound 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Don’t be so sure you won - the covert will not be defeated - make sure you have no contact because he will be back for the discard
I agree. Narcissists thrive on the Supply. If you cut off all access to The Supply… you'll have won. (The supply being your attention, your love, your ear to hear their bullshit… etc etc… your self-esteem… what they're trying to steal from you etc etc.) I hope you're doing well, Kari!
This is a good video for content. What he did not stress is, in the end you have to leave them and go “no contact” (look it up) if their disease is progressed...their back handed compliments get viscious to violent in terminal stages. I stopped talking to my father forever when I was 31.
I witnessed him killing my mother’s soul and she died early from the stress which I now realize she endured during 35 yrs of marriage.
I left my husband and went “no contact” when I was 65 after 21 yrs of marriage. His ranting had turned too violent. There is a lot of good help out there. Use it. Because in the end you are volunteering for the abuse. They will kill your soul. You will end up in a PTSD puddle. I did. Let them find someone else to abuse. Note, I was crazy in love with my husband, but I had to forget the “fantasy” of the love and save my own soul.
Ranting...? That doesn't sound very "covert"...?
i feel the same 34 yrs married & had a covert narcissistic mother.I only found out about narcissists a few months ago.I am still in the marriage but looking at my options .I hope everything is going well for you.
@@michaelbarber5651 Do you mean covert?
Yes, sorry-- Correct. Huge difference found between overt and covert. Overt is rather obvious IMHO and it is what people assume is narcissistic. Covert, on the other hand, is completely hidden unless you have been exposed to one or abused by one before. Then it becomes much more obvious from that point on. Ranting is not a trait of a covert narcissist at all unless the rant is completely under the radar. They do things passively. So they are not going to overtly rant at all. People, including experts confused these too all the time.
@@michaelbarber5651 But maybe it is covert if the only person the person rants at is their victim/s? If in front of others they put on a good face & act respectable? I'm trying to understand where & how the line is drawn. Do you have a clear picture?
I’ve been dealing with a narcissistic partner. I gotten to the point that that I no longer can deal with the abuse. I’ve learned whats going on so I chose to stay away and ignore him. He hates it!
Usually, by the time you learn the person is a "covert narcissist", you have already 'dealt' with them in one way or another. You cannot and will not recognize the person as a 'covert narcissist' just by looking at them or having casual interactions with them. You have to observe, listen, and understand what you SAW,what you HEARD, and WHY you SAW and HEARD that. Now don't that sound easy. The better question is how do you STOP 'dealing with' a covert narcissist once you understand what you SAW, what you HEARD, and WHY you SAW and HEARD that? The 'best way' to 'deal with a covert narcissist' is to STOP listening, STOP observing, STOP wondering WHY, and STOP having ANY interaction with them. If you MUST have interactions with them, limit the interactions as much as possible. No "hi, how are you doing", no "hi, I wish I had time to talk to you", no "hi, it's nice to see you", just "hi, hope you're doing well, I've got to run" or just "hi" and keep walking. If at all possible avoid ANY setting or situation where the narcissist or a 'flying monkey' can observe you or listen to you. 'Flying monkeys' are the narcissist's 'possessions'. Dealing with or interacting with anything or anybody the narcissist 'owns' is considered the same as 'dealing with' or interacting with the narcissist. The more you 'deal with' a covert narcissist, the more you will have to 'deal with'. Do not 'run' from a covert narcissist unless you can 'run' totally away from them. When you 'run' from a narcissist, it makes them feel powerful and important. They like that and will make a sport out of watching you 'run'. Once you 'learn' the person is a 'covert narcissist', you have to 'learn' to either 'covertly' avoid the hell out of them or 'overtly' have NO CONTACT with them and refuse to 'deal with' them. This all SOUNDS so simple and easy, but ask anybody who has ever "dealt with" one and they'll tell you it's one of hardest things they've ever 'dealt with'. Additionally, Metaspyhub@gmail. com is a company that is ideal if you need to be able to confront a cheating spouse because they have some of the most advanced features in the industry.
WAS in a ‘relationship’ with a covert narcissist x 1 year - it nearly killed me. I ID’d the cycle - he could never let me talk about my concerns ie: stonewalled with an abrupt fit of rage, then he would take off (usually to the bar, but who knows where else)
He assaulted me 3 times - each time pleading for me to come back (complete with fetal position - seemed so genuine at the time)
The 3rd time I called 911 - it was brutal and I was completely depleted.
No contact implemented via the courts (and me 100% after a bit of back & forth)
The bottom line: I read him wrong - I didn’t understand what was happening!!!
I sought help thru counselling & support groups - I read so many books.
The best thing I did was go NO CONTACT & educate myself.
Good luck to you if you are at this extremely distressing troubling stage 💙💙💙💙💙💙
IVE BEEN THERE TOO My husband of 42 yrs had me believing there was something wrong with me if i asked questions about his lies, over the years i was conditioned to not question him or it got violent I STAYED FOR MY KIDS AND LOST THEM ANYWAY NO EDUCATION SCARED TO LEAVEL. HE FAKES CONCERN WHICH IS HIS NEW FORM OF TOTURE
Now just imagine going through this for 40 years. I'm a shadow. Exhausted.
Carol B, beenhere 37 years. I stayed because we had babies and i gave up my life for them. Non stop cheating and i in the last 30 days or non stop reading and video's, sad to realize she never loved me, I was just the supply and always talked her up all over FB andeverything. I fed my own destrition. Hitronic female. I outterd her hard 11 days ago and did not realize what they were capable of, so I hid all the mone,, all our valuables and two people know where it is from my family. So I have things on her BAD SERIOUS and told her, I will not out herr if she does not setting me up. all she will have is this 500K home if she does.
Lies and Infidelity is a very serious issue to deal with and it’s a major threat to most marriages and relationships.Scars left behind from a narcissist husband is hard to erase from the mind. I was reluctant at first about finding the truth about my cheating husband but I’m glad I finally took the courage for it .I got help from Cyber Hack Solutions as he helped clone my cheating husband’s phone and I got access to all his phone call logs, emails, text messages both deleted texts and also social media chats; whatsApp , Facebook, Instagram without having access to his phone because he is mostly out of town due to the nature of his work and I was able to track his location too, all I provided was his phone number to this wonderful hacker. This was very revealing for me as he’s a serial cheater until I got into his phone and ended things.I’m glad to uncover his, lies, secrets and Infidelity. You can contact this amazing Hacker David via gmail (cyberhack003) or text and call on his phone and WhatsApp : +15303784744
As awful as this sounds, you're lucky you called 911 and not him. The Covert I wasted 14 years with called on me and did that awful fetal position self victimization crap for everyone who'd notice him. He even curled into a ball on the couch and pawed for sympathy from my own mother after beating me up for the last time. But, due to some extremely self-centered miscalculations on his part, he lost everything he cared about and I'm now free. Would that we all could be.
Blocked a parent because of this. One of the best decisions I have ever made. They are so draining and literally ruined my life for a while. Had to get my life back together afterwards. It's interesting tos we it defined
im on 3 years blocked i feel So much more Sane.Im not Crazy
Unlike so many people out there, the Covert that I've had to deal with is my own MOM. And, I never knew what the deal was for MANY, Many years. Many people, neighbors, extended family, nearly EVERYONE in my home town, my brothers and my Dad, have ALL had so much difficulty with her for decades. Finally in the last couple years I've researched and narrowed it down. While I'm not a psychologist, I'm pretty positive that my Mom is a Covert Narcissist. And I'd have to say that she's an extremely difficult one at that. She was hell-on-wheels when my 3 brothers and I were growing up. Physical and emotional abuse. But, now that we're all plenty big, she has switched to fully emotional abuse now. She does the gaslighting, all the backhanded "compliments" and so on.
I'm relieved to some degree, now knowing what we've been dealing with. She seems to be living in her own mental world. She refuses to believe or acknowledge ANY problems with herself. About the ONLY thing we've been able to do is, RUN. Every time she comes around with this "attitude", we all just scatter. That's about all we can do. Every attempt to make her look at herself, just turns into a pity party for her. She does TONS of stuff at my parents' house. My Dad is mostly disabled, and can't do much. So, since my Mom does most things, she sees that as a license to treat my Dad and everyone else like crap. In addition she REFUSES to let anyone help too. Because she thinks she is the only one capable of doing ANYTHING "correctly". Then she'll turn around and dramatize all of her suffering because she works so hard. But, she's got spaghetti brain focus. She literally does 95 different things, in little 3 minute increments. She'll try to do 2 dishes, then look on the computer, then go outside and check her plants, or weed, then get in the car and bring mail to the post office, then come back and re-run the dish water and do 2 more dishes. Then on and on, ALL DAY LONG!! And she wants everyone OUT OF THE WAY!! We'll try to have a conversation with each other, and if she doesn't like the topic, she'll bitch about it, and how it upsets her, etc. It's just amazing!
Luckily one brother and I are room-mates over 50 miles away. But, my Dad and one brother that recently got divorced are STUCK there. My Mom definitely wants attention and sympathy. She wants to be a weird form of a "hero". But she is so controlling, down to which exact food to eat for each and every meal. When I visit to help do some outside work, she'll say like, "Ok, I'm too busy to make food. So there is a lot of stuff to make a nice big salad for lunch. Do that please." We say Ok. Then like 10 minutes later she starts preparing the salad anyway, and bitching the WHOLE time, trying to make us feel bad. That is just ONE example out of HUNDREDS of things she does. It's insane. Now that I'm in my late 40s, I almost cannot visit anymore. It's too stressful.
I'm just sharing my story. I hope I don't sound like a whiner. I am VERY appreciative for all of the work that modern psychologists are doing. In fact I think we desperately NEED an entity that can work on politicians now. This entity needs the power to diagnose most of those people as "Unfit for Duty". :-)
Sounds like my birth other ~ sorry you had such a crumby matriarch
you are not a whiner. This totally makes sense to me. you are not alone!
Many peoples mothers,like my own are covert narcissists....my father was an overt narcissist. 😣 us 4 kids were just supposed to be a supportive audience with NO thoughts or emotions of our own!🙄
Thank you for approaching this subject with compassion. So many people have been deeply hurt by a narcissist, so the information online is often tainted with bitterness (understandably). It’s hard to find information like this that doesn’t portray the narcissist as a villain. Excellent job. Very helpful.
Thank you so much for your kind words! I'm glad that my video was able to provide a compassionate perspective on this subject. It's important to remember that not all narcissists are villains, and understanding their behavior can help people heal and move forward.
Something that might be helpful though is distinguishing between just imperfect people (with problems and struggles that cause conflict in a marriage) and really problematic dysfunction that cannot be redeemed. Because I've seen narcissists turn and claim the imperfect spouse or boyfriend/girlfriend is the narcissist simply for trying to set boundaries with the narcissist.
Really good comment!
MUST READ: The Covert Passive Aggressive Narcissist by Debbie Mizra. The book is truly excellent. I read it in four hours because it explains what drives the Covert Narc, why the Covert Narc “chose” you, how you must respond to your CN, and answers so many questions
Must SEE presentation on diabolical narcissism and why is it rampant in society today.
ua-cam.com/video/X4dtcwv5dPM/v-deo.html
Thank you ❤
Just bought it! This is why I read comments thank you
The saying kindness kills, it nearly killed me several times. Part kindness, part naivety. I wish I could see them (or sniff them out) before any interaction took place. Therapy is not cheap and they do not pay for our rehab. 😞
Soon give will because this is becoming an epidemic
@@enchantingnaturals866 i believe so. They multiply like rodents.
Personality disorders are personality disorders. Yet some of them are getting more demonized and other are seen more like "oh no they suffer". I'm most likely a covert narcissist and feels bad. It remidnds a lot how everyone describes BPD (mood swings, identity disturbance,lack of empathy, selfhate), but I do also project my self hate outwards if it makes sense. Like "It's not ME to blame it's THEM". It's desctructive both for person and for everyone around. Just like ASPD, just like BPD. Even when I got aware of theese patterns it's so hard to act healthy and get rid of this mindset. Any video about BPD comments like "I was diagnosed BPD it sucks" or "my wife/sister/daughter has BPD I feel so bad for her", any NPD/ASPD-related video comments like "my ex was a nariccist what a jerk I hope he'll burn in hell".
I want to thank you a lot for not overly demonizing narcissism like even some doctors do.
@@glittergun what does that mean? now who are those nameless narc?
@@Ash01010 That's the name of the channel - "The Nameless Narcissist" :)
There are three good UA-cam channels for NPD. The Nameless Narcissist is a good one. Cluster B Milkshake and Spirit Narc are good too.
I realized two of my sisters are covert narcissistic individuals. I decided to do a lot of self-care. They called me selfish and lashed out when I don't answer their calls or texts. I decided to keep my peace. May God give me strength.
Have you ever healed a narcissist - they don't usually recognise that they have an issue, and I am sure very few do come to therapy... I left my ex-husband of 21 years married, and a total of 26 years together... the best thing I ever did...
Yes. They say that is how most narcissists get NPD, is because they were sexually molested at a young age, or just generally sexually harassed by a trusted individual, that tends to almost freeze or split the emotional development at that age, and then that emotional development is stunted until the trauma is dealt with.
But then they also say that narcissistic mothers tend to imprint on their daughters and so on and so on. So if you can tell your girlfriend's mother is a narcissist, she's lucky if she's not one either. Because narcissistic mothers tend to sexualize their daughters from a way younger age than appropriate and teach them how to "seduce boys" and use certain manipulation techniques and tactics to get the edge or advantage of people. But it seems like the most intense cases tend to be the ones who were molested in most cases, but again, there is no solid statistical information on anything of this, we are just hitting the tip of the iceberg.
This is gonna be a serious problem in the following decade or two, this seems like it's spreading like wildfire. This is what the breakup of the family unit does, it leaves innocent children vulnerable to predators and perverts when a mom who has too many boyfriends she's switching around come on by who instantly become the kids "step-fathers," the kind of step-fathers you would avoid at all costs. Or just the general lack of love and the protection and closeness and close-guardedness of being in a family unit that children so vitally need, when that's lacking, that's when they're prone to such attacks and look what it does, it leaves that person with a lifetime of pain and a lifetime of hurting others, and a good number of them probably don't even know why they do the fucked up shit that they do. Which makes all of this so much harder.
Well so ists eben, fear of failure i dont do anything.....Shyness i dont approach peopleSensitive everything affects meWorried everything msakes me worried...
Unsure insecure..... no friendshipsInsecure no relationshipFear of feelings no relationshipFear of commitment no relationship, no job.....
Am i paranoid?......... no i dont think so
Lies and Infidelity is a very serious issue to deal with and it’s a major threat to most marriages and relationships.Scars left behind from a narcissist husband is hard to erase from the mind. I was reluctant at first about finding the truth about my cheating husband but I’m glad I finally took the courage for it .I got help from Cyber Hack Solutions as he helped clone my cheating husband’s phone and I got access to all his phone call logs, emails, text messages both deleted texts and also social media chats; whatsApp , Facebook, Instagram without having access to his phone because he is mostly out of town due to the nature of his work and I was able to track his location too, all I provided was his phone number to this wonderful hacker. This was very revealing for me as he’s a serial cheater until I got into his phone and ended things.I’m glad to uncover his, lies, secrets and Infidelity. You can contact this amazing Hacker David via gmail (cyberhack003) or text and call on his phone and WhatsApp : +15303784744
@@RantTherapist It's not just sexual abuse, it's any kind of abuse
I recently realized my sister is emotionally abusive to me and has all these traits. I am 30 so it took me 29 years to recognize it. I've been in a lot of theapy and gaining confidence in myself. It look me over a year to be able to do a lot of the things you suggest and it feels so much better now. I hope this video is helpful to others and they get the help they need. It's worth it, you're worth it.
Simone Whalen-Rhodes, you deserve a better man not a narcissist!
Omg…YES. This is SO true. SO SO SO true
Thanks for the video. You asked how the viewers deal with covert narcs. I don't want to have to "manage" any adult if I don't absolutely have to. I enjoy being by myself or prefer seeking out kindhearted, genuine people who don't turn the relationship into a job. However, I do have covert narcs in my life and I try to swing wide and "grey rock" them. I'm afraid otherwise they will provoke me sooner or later into telling them off. Which they may like as it is supply (play victim, create drama, satisfaction they got to me). I would also prefer not to reveal that I'm onto them (as long as I can anyway).
Maybe you have other videos addressing this but I don't buy (or excuse) 100% the "hurt people hurt people". There is an aspect of Free Will as well as sadistic satisfaction of some of that behavior which goes way beyond a maladaptive coping mechanism or bad habit. From what I have experienced (in come cases over decades), these people generally know what they're doing and very much enjoy the drama and gotcha!-type pain they're creating. Maybe at some point, the "narc high" becomes an addiction and the habit ingrained to the point of reflex, but there was (and probably still is) a moment where they can decide to stop, change, get help etc etc.
I sooo totally agree with YOU ! There is NO JUSTIFICATION of ANY type of ABUSE !!!
So because of their extraordinary suffering they use it as justification to bully others?
It's how they manipulate people into giving them free shit. "Poor Me!" Heaven forbid they become self-sustaining and independent. That's no fun. No abusing others into doing things for them.
they need to solicitate fuel from others to feel good. the paradox is that they feel very inadequate & know it, but instead of treating themselves/healing within, they decided to use other people to manage their problems.....I think us getting educated about them is really a tremendous step forward...
More like a way to show their suffering.
Insane right
Suffering ought to make us more tender to others. But I don't believe narcissists think much at all about why they do what they do. If they did, they might seek help.
I also would like to mention the Martyr syndrome. I deal with a covert narcissist daily and I have finally Found that this is a strong feature of their behavior
Thank you for sharing your insights! It's always interesting to learn about different behaviors and how they manifest in people's lives.
self-preservation is the key dealing with these types of people! Thank you Dr. Daniel Fox
Thank you.
Firstly, self concept 1:22
Additionally, interpersonally 2:19
Socially 3:00
Ethicality 3:56
4 keys summary 5:11
Ineffective ways to respond to narcissism 9:11
Effective response 9:53
Thanks for chapter notations.
Have spent over 4 years with one. I ended up with anxiety and other things. Got rid of him 3 weeks ago. No contact. That's the key. Good luck to all who deal with one. I wish you all the best and fast awakenings
I’m with my mother now, covert narcissist. My father is an overt narcissist. I hope your suggestions are going to help me this Christmas holiday! :)
Same as my parents.. checkout my book DADDY THROWS ME IN THE AIR...memoir/self-help..
Same...and i feel your pain!! Always just thought mom was codependent...which she was ...didn't understand till studying narcissism, to understand ALL my X's that mom was too. Single I'm pretty narcissistic...but in a relationship i become a pathetic doormat and play my mom's role.🤔single 4 years and happier!!
Same! Oh my gosh..
Thank U, Dr Fox. I have never gone through so much suffering like what I've experienced with my covert narc. I never knew of this illness until my own Dr told me about my ex. He has also borderline personality splits. I cared and love him so much, but the 4 yrs of relationship was like walking on egg shells each day. A sweet person can turn such an abusive monster! He's been violent and humiliated me in front of hundreds saying the most extreme hurtful things that noone should endure. So very entitled to so many gifts and money that my bank account was totally drained. He has since 9 months blocked me and went to a teenager with millions of followers on UA-cam. Both singers/musicians. I am still traumatized with his words & actions.
It’s amazing that after almost 11 years my blinders have been removed. Now that I see it, I can’t unsee it. My kids and I walk on eggshells, never know which person we will get. There is ALWAYS a double standard (it’s ok for him to do something but if any of us do the same thing, we are shamed) my two oldest have withdrawn from him and he can’t understand why? Many broken commitments. His needs always come first. If the kids do something great, he takes the credit for teaching them. If they do something he doesn’t like, he comes at me like it’s my fault. He makes impulsive choices that effect all of us but we are not allowed to say anything negative about it. Whenever we have a good amount of money saved, he makes large purchases but then will come down on me about budgeting when money gets tight. His business is ALWAYS more important than mine. I can be working yet if there is something minor he needs or has to do that requires my attention away from work, he expects me to drop what I’m doin. My job is critical I also work in the mental health field and one on one w clients. I can’t just blow them off as he expects me to. My job holds no value over what he wants to do. Yet if I do not value my job or show drive, he criticizes me. I recently requested full time due to him obsessing over money but never wanting to spend much in our kids for Xmas. However he can make a single purchase costing hundreds and sometimes even thousands. I have not started my full time yet but he already demands so much of my extra time that I have no idea how it will work when I work full time. He doesn’t pitch in w helping w the kids but expects me to have them in bed by certain times or make sure their doing their school stuff. He acts entitled like he doesn’t have to do any of it bc he provides most of our income. That exempts him from putting any real work into raising the kids but sure loves to complain about everything they do. He is EXTREMELY spiteful and will throw things in others faces. He even gets spiteful with his OWN kids. I could not ever imagine showing spite toward my children. He rages at times and others acts sarcastically calm as if I am the one in the wrong for getting upset. He will twist things around on me to make it look as if I am the “bad guy” to others even my kids. He intentionally sets the stage for chaotic situations but then will blame it on the way I planned or did something. He will spontaneously make plans and it doesn’t matter if I’m in the middle of work, if I even dare speak up about not being able to drop what I’m doing, I am wrong bc he pays the bills and should be able to do what he wants when he wants. When he senses and notices me pulling away, he is on his BEST behavior ever acting like the most patient and understanding father and partner. He will gift me money and offer to buy me things I don’t really need. This is usually due to him spending money on himself so he wants to make sure that it doesn’t come back on him in any way. Also, any time I accept the money or gifts the next time he demands my attention or has a need that I am not willing to comply with, he acts as if I’m being selfish bc of al that he does for me. He had zero concern or consideration for me having any free or down time to myself telling me that if I want time to myself I just have to do it and outright tell him. He never gives me that opportunity. If he knows I might have some free time, he makes sure to use it up by doing one of his hobbies or acting as if there is something important he needs to do. He will go do one of his hobbies for several days a week at all different kind of times that are not logical for me. He will ask me if I want to go do something one day on the weekend but then never presents that opportunity. He might be out and about all day or won’t get out of bed acting moody and giving everyone the silent treatment. I’m supposed to be a mind reader too and know when something is bothering him and exactly what it is. He confides in my opinion about things acting as if my input matters but if I don’t agree with his way, he will twist and manipulate until he gets me to agree. I know no one has read this far but I really needed to vent this out in a place where others can relate. I’m so trapped and lost bc I cannot make it on my own w myself and my kids and he knows that. We have nowhere to stay either for me to figure it out. I feel like I’m going crazy. I’m sitting here questioning myself and if I might be the one who is narcissistic bc of the way that the switch is always flipped back to me. I have to seriously remind myself of who I am and that I have been an empath my whole life and have attracted these men for as long as I remember. My mother is an overt narcissist as well. I have been surrounded by them for so long it has me questioning my own actions and patterns. Good thing I have been in therapy for years and have learned how to ground myself and not forget who I really am.
My covert narcissist was my neighbour of 19 years. She recently took her own life. Throughout her 19 years of abuse against me and my family, she constantly portrayed herself as the poor victim, left out bits of her involvement in a story and brainwashed her children into thinking we were the baddies. She was jealous of everyone, but usually sucked people in to her sad little life, and they believed her. An excellent video to watch, and very accurate. 😊👍
Christine Hunter,You are beautiful 🌷,you don’t need a narcissist in your life!
Christine Hunter,You are beautiful 🌷,you don’t need a narcissist in your life!
Almost everything my wife says involves her in some context, ususally spun in a way that makes it as if nothing was in her control and she got screwed over. I feel a little bad about it but I've labeled it as being a "professional victim" or "woe is me" personality type.
Thank you so much for this youtube. My husband is a covet narcissist and you helped me a lot in recognizing this.
I told him he was awesome..my inspiration and my motivation..and other things..I think he needed to hear this from me..but it did no good.. got me no where.. so I tell him now he deserves better than me and I am sure he find a wonderful woman to bring him happiness. Now he tells me I am deflecting....
I’ve had enough. My daughter is a narcissistic person that can even fool her own therapist
She gets mad over anything and I don’t know ever what she’s upset about. I feel bad for my 2 grandchildren 😭😢
I’ve been worried I may be a covert narcissist but this helped me see clearly that I am not.
WhilelmWaiting, you are too precious to be with a narcissist!
I know it's been almost a year since you left this comment, but I just wanted to say that genuine Narcissists never consider the idea that they might be Narcissists at all-much less worry about it. They're never wrong, their thoughts and actions can always be justified, and if they are having problems with other people, it's because those people have problems (they're jealous, have mental problems, are insecure, are too needy or demanding, etc.).
So that you were worried you might be a covert Narcissist was the surest sign that you aren't one!
@WhileImWaiting - I thought that too about myself but what happens is we start to become them when many decades pass with them, we forget our true selves. I did.
I love that you identified that covert narcissists engage passive-aggressive supply-collection (obligation, guilt, shame, pity) in contrast to the overt narcissist’s aggressive tactics (charisma/intimidation)
I find it really hard... Ever since I was born, I have always had some kind of narcissists around me (family, friends, partners, teachers, co-workers, bosses.....). I have been working hard and educating myself a lot on this personality disorder and how they manipulate etc. It has already helped a lot but I still kinda attract them (especially the covert ones). Yes, I do find out who and what they are a lot quicker but it kinda frustrates me and I always wonder if I'm overanalyzing comments etc.... in the end, I do realize, I am not overreacting or overanalyzing but it makes it hard for myself to open up to "normal" people. I always suspect some kind of attacks, back-handed compliments or strategies behind everything. I know it's because I have had an environment with those kind of toxic people for over 20 years, but it's so hard to trust people and not further attract narcissists over and over. I guess I still have some real hard work to do. Probably working a lot more on my own boundaries and stand up for myself a lot more (which mean I have to become more self-confident and love myself more) is the key to overcome this. Or at least one of many points to solve this. Anyway, thanks for your videos. I find them very helpful and informative. Educating myself has helped a lot before finding the right therapist and sadly, there are a lot people making videos and spreading false information, so that I am grateful for actual experts like you. Cheers!
The worst thing about it is that you can never tell them any of this. The word that comes to my mind a lot is *undermining*. I've seen it tethered to Norman Bates syndrome (no one is good enough for / is going to dirty my son).
Thank you for your insight and advice! I am a reformed narcissist like the others i had a tough childhood and was created by a narc maybe even two but rather than go into that i would like to instead tell you about my experience with my ex who i now know is a covert narc, I would have noticed im sure if i was not so self absorbed at the time but her passive aggressive behaviour seems so obvious now anyway the point is it was the most painful experience i have ever had and it's taken me 18 months to not feel furious (cover emotion for powerlessness) anymore but the great thing is i trained to push out the feelings and lost 58 lbs! hence the pic of my abbs =) I can even train others to get the body they want it's great! I think narcissism is a spectrum and as long as you are not a 10/10 and have a contiences then you can grow and get better. I am still on the spectrum at the moment but doing much better if i had to pick a number between 1/10 i would say i was an 8 now i am a 4!
I find it hard some times not to go back to my default setting when my fight or flight kicks in i want to fight! But in that moment if you can take just a few deep breaths you can normally pick the right thing to say or do! I acknowledge that i have been a bit of an asshole most of my life and it sucks! but
1 its not your fault.
2 it is your responsibility to get better.
So to summarize, Worst heartbreak ever! Best growing experience ever! Namaste =)
I've been a target of a narcisist that fits your description. It's been a challenging experience. In my particular case, the covert narcisist has been incredibly manipulative both to myself and the audience they perform to. These videos are helpful - and it's helped me develop an insight into these personalities, and also myself. Thank you, these videos really do make a difference.
Thank you so much for this explanation. I fear that I am a narcissist, all the time. This video shows me I am not. I hate putting others down. Grew up with a malignant narcissistic mother, who did a lot of toxic projection. This video also confirms for me that I recently let go of a covert narcissistic person who claimed to be my friend. They've given me a lot of backhanded compliments, and after every interaction with them, I felt drained and full of doubt about myself. I've experienced this in the relationship with my malignant narcissistic mother, as well.
This is exactly where I’m at too! Now been convinced by my ex that came back after I walked away half a year ago
Love "you'll never make anyone feel bad enough to do good things." Sometimes, the toughest love is best served by inspiring or exciting motivation by reminding those around us the connection they can look forward to supporting or deepening by changing their current behavior. Not that they're "bad" in a splitting thinking way, but that they have good things to look forward to if they change their interaction style within the relationship.
At first I did the wrong way of dealing. But then I started to state to then who I know I really am. I am glad it didnt take me long to realize the first way didnt work and they would just try to dig deeper. Walking away is a great thing too. It gives the power back to yourself by shutting down the negativity. After a while they will see what they do and realize why it keeps happening. Some peoplewant attention, pity, etc and get angry if you end the conversation. But it really is best for both people.
Jen Nova I feel absolute trust shouldn’t be overemphasized in a relationship, smartness is also very important. There’s a popular saying that “don’t trust too much because that too much might hurt you so much”. A Narcissist shouldn’t be trusted, they have this excessive interest or admiration of themselves and they’re very toxic!. My greatest disappointment was discovering my wife cheating on me through the help of Cyberhackingsage who helped cloned her cellphone and i was able to read all her messages and uncover my wife’s infidelity without having to touch her phone. All i did was share my wife’s number with Cyberhackingsage and i got access to her Facebook, WhatsApp and text messages both deleted and incoming ones with a remote link on my phone. Thanks to Cyberhackingsage, now i have enough evidence for my divorce. You can contact him ( cyberhackingsage@gmail )Or Text/Call and WhatsApp him on +15713758467. Thank me later.
I am a covert narcissistic.. Always trying to build myself for positivity ,love ,caring..But certainly I am paranoid to everything..I doubt my worth .. Always fearful ..Cynic ..So sad in life.. Always doing different kind of things.. Losing the empathy for others .In a victim mode..I need help .
I do appreciate you being very clear. First, you acknowledge the symptoms, list them, and then you go deeper into the dynamics of the disorder and its roots. Thank you so much.
H'mm, I agree with some of the 4 components but I've lived with a covert narc for 38 years. What about being consumed with entitlement, to exploitation, zero empathy, zero remorse or ability for introspection, inability for intimacy (victim always feeling alone even while with them or having sex, it seems to only be sex), inability for being accountable or wrong doings, inability to clearly apologize may say the word, but can't explain what they're apologizing for, zero loyalty, can abandon at the drop of a hat.
Your video will seem to confuse a lot of Covert Narc victims in thinking they don't have a Narc. Please update your video or make another to include items mentioned. Wink is 1991, we are now going on 2019. Let's update 30 year ole stuff. Also, it is universal that these animals Love bomb, devalue, and discard, but yet still feel they forever own you. What I described is a full blown Narc. I have a Masters in Science and Techology Intellligence, a BS in Electrical Engineering, a PMP, an ITIL v.3 and so on. I have done my homework on my Ex Narc now of 2 years, and know what I'm talking about. You have treated or tried to treat Covert Narcs, but living with one I've found to be the best teacher for helping others. Keep contributing.
Yes .. the sex part. Once it happens it only for his pleasure. Not yours. Mine ejaculates before i am even ready to come. I can't have orgasm anymore because I know he is going to come before anyway. No foreplay .. just . Wam bam thank you mam. 2018 we had sex 5 times.
.. I so agree on the appology part as well
cheers I'm 32 years in with covert partner specific narc. She literally does not exhibit this behavior with any one but me. Not until I was completely disabled and could not save her could she do what's right by me. Crazy. Interestingly enough, Not until I was disabled and couldn't save her did I fall apart. Typical empath.
Thank you!!!! what you say is true. I am just learning that I am with a covert narcissist and the stuff you mentioned he does!
@@carolrosales1896
Good luck in getting your mind wrapped about this stuff. Find a support group that's been trhough it, and please don't make the mistake of telling family and friends about this stuff if they haven[t experienced. It'll put you in a tough spot. You can do it........ you're not alone.
Could you maybe make a video on how to create a new self-concept for covert narcissists, please? Or maybe the steps you'd follow in treatment, or something? Kind of like what you did for BPD. I'm very confused about my time line. So it's hard to pinpoint how I got this way. So, it would be very helpful, for I know I have at least some traits, and it's not how I want to live my life. Either way, thank you for your time and videos!
guess who we totally need this.
I commend you for trying to fix it yourself, as much as you can do, and I wish you good luck.
But your best bet is to go to a good therapist and explain your situation to them. Having that third person outlook and perspective, and that person being a professional, you will make improvements much easier and much faster, and their insight will be invaluable to you, believe me. I go to counseling myself, two to three times a month now, but back in the day when I was going through some challenges, twice a week.
So if you only have time for even one or two sessions a month, go anyway! You don't have to commit to keep going. But go and see if you can find a therapist you like. And if you get a bad one that just seems to repeat lines out of a book or just repeats stuff off a cognitive therapy worksheet without really digging in, or if you just don't like that therapist, don't quit therapy! Just quit that therapist! And try at least another 2 or 3 others before you decide to call quits. I made that mistake before and that put my self-development back on the shelf for another few years. I regret it now.
Anyways, just my two cents. You take care and God bless you.
First I want to say that it is very difficult to admit you have any mental health issues so congratulations on the hard work you have done so far! That is seriously one of the more painful steps that keeps many from healing. I would recommend finding a good therapist who has experience in trauma-informed care, specifically personality disorders and relationships. A good place to start is educating yourself on complex-PTSD, self-compassion and attachment theory. Schema therapy and Internal Family Systems are also very effective for helping to understand patterns and belief systems that were needed to survive in the past and cause problems now in a non-judgmental way. DBT is also very good at helping develop mindfulness, emotional regulation, communication skills, and a more balanced perspective that will go along way. The goal is basically re-parenting yourself. Your brain is literally wired to heal and grow! Don't listen to the negative comments. You can do it! Also practice asking for feedback from people you trust and listening to others perspective, meditation, journaling, and giving yourself the validation from inside vs external sources.
I have seen most of these traits in the covert that I know . The refusal or silence , the claims of being abused by simple questions or communication , absence of responsibility and or obligation for instance -bill paying , making sure children are bathing or brushing their teeth , no ownership to her words or actions but the if I say or do something out of line even in defense then I am labeled the criminal aggressor , and the total wreck less abandon to avoid criticism or unwanted communication . 20 years to only learn in the last few months why things have been this way . I wish this was taught in school so I could have identified it earlier . I would have known when the first counselor we went to looked at me like I was such a manipulative lying cull . He watched every facial expression of hers while I answered his questions to see her much hurt and how I badly I have effected her . And I am the one who initiated the counseling in the first place , knowing something was amiss . I am looked at by most if not all of her friends as a huge POS . And no one knows about her addiction or her abuse . According to her I am the controlling , manipulative overbearing one . This is so surreal !
Once you know one it gets exhausting to deal with.. Thank you for this Dr.
I'm so glad this video was helpful for you. I wish you well.
Thank you for helping to be able to understand and learn to spot them bc I seem to have a "target" on me that attracts narcissists. I've been terrified of any signif other after being with a very severe situation which TERRIFIED me. I'm STILL terrified of it happening again, so there has been NO signif other for a while now bc I'm scared of falling into that trap again.
Thank you for saying the bit about how in therapy, often the therapist might align with this type of narcissist because they often present as the victim. Three therapists we saw and he was able to completely convince the first one that he was an abuse victim. It was insane. The second one, he was so verbally abuse at home at the time that when we went in, I felt stunned into silence. That therapist picked up that something was wrong and separated us, refusing to see us together. My husband was threatened by this and found creative ways to sabotage my way of getting there (I was a stay at home mom of two really young kids, and we couldn’t afford a sitter so he would just take off right when I was trying to leave and I couldn’t just leave the kids alone). The third therapist called him a narcissist and he went hard down a rabbit hole of trying to convince this man that I am truly mentally ill and super controlling and I just can’t see myself. I finally quit because I realized this was a waste of our money. He wasn’t trying to work on our marriage. He was trying to work on me. He was looking for new ways to gaslight and control me.
It is always validating to hear someone say things that remind me I’m not crazy.
I’m glad the video was helpful. Be well.
That’s sounds with my story. I think he convince her, and they made friends…very good one. He puts anyone in his pocket. She was first my terapista and went with her cause of a narcisist friend. She barely helped me. Then I asked her to do couples therapy..we went alone for 2 times, then he went separate and that’s was it. She dumped me. And started defending him and siding with him. He was the victim. He finally left the house, and found his doble life. She never knew. He used her to disguise…and poor guy, I am the narcisit and I think she backers him up, with…she is impossible..no way..I put up with his covert abuse and overt for so long…..I am happy and finally healing….many autoinmune disease
Great advice Doc. The work begins with us and not the covert narcs. Great and balanced advice.
How I dealt with the covert narc in my life that I was in a relationship with is that I discarded him. That's the ONLY sensible and sane way to deal with a narcissist once u have discovered that they are indeed and in FACT a narc...simple.
I just discarded mine after 6 mos 😢
Mine is pregnant tho😔
I really appreciate YOUR time. Thank you for these videos.
I had a friend for a long time who I thought was genuine and was just having a hard time in life. Didnt even know he was a covert narcissist. But When things got too hurtful I cut him off. Thanks for the video 👏
Thank You Dr.Fox for your caring and sensitive approach towards such fragile stuff like this! I have a narcissistic parent and myself have petulant bpd. Knowing more about narcissism helped me understand where rhat grandiosity aspect of my bpd comes from...my mother! Which is sad but i truly believe it is in my hands to break this generational trauma and with powerful people like this n all over the internet i can and will get through this hell hole.
Almost like a bad acid trip lol stuck on repeat not understanding and really insecure and identifying but charmed again. Boundaries. Stepping stones.
Excellent advice of getting your own esteem internally and not letting anyone else define you.
Hannah Brown,you look gorgeous 🌹 🌹🌷 🌷🌷🌺🌷🌺🌹 🌹🌺
Hannah Brown,hope you are not with a narcissist!
My brother displays both covert and overt narcissism. As does my mother and brother..all are on the cluster B spectrum. . very confusing ...I am no contact from my entire dysfunctional FOO..I left crazytown and visiting the family psychiatric unit/home after 53 years of trying to be a balanced healthy family member....big mistake. I will. never return for my own health and sanity.. ..much love and thank you..xxx
You are so accurate about these covert narcs being misdiagnosed. My covert narc surgeon husband was ‘diagnosed’ as having high functioning autism by the therapist who works in the same hospital. He never went to consult her, of course. I went because I was having trouble connecting with him. So he was seen as the victim and for so many years I spent feeling sorry for him. Until the gaslighting, silent treatments and triangulation within the family started. I learnt to walk away and grey rock him. Got discarded after 24 years of marriage. The best gift ever! No more abuse and I finally get to live in peace
Glad you were able to overcome it.
@@DrDanielFox if he had not left I think i wouldve stayed with him. No looking back now. I am still healing. Thank you for all your videos!
l love your eduactional video, so good! I was born to an overt / covert narcssitc father and I suffered by him and my 2 older brothers. for 33 years. Now I have so much anger built in me that when I detect any one behiving such as them, I am ready to slit their gullits!
This was so helpful. Thank you! I have not been able to explain in words how my narc mother behaved and what was so wrong about her thinking. I have noted down the core points that lead to such behaviour and now I will be able to explain it to others. Thank you, again.
Dr. Fox,
This is so draining!
Thank you for the information!
I want my life back!
Am really appreciating the info you have available to share !I had to learn 'the hard way' that I was dealing with a covert narcissist !
I loved this video! You were clear, empathic and wise. It helped me a lot, thank you!!
Thank you for making this video. Dealing with my covert narcissist daughter-in-law who has alienated my son and 3-grandchildren from my life has nearly broken me over the years.
I truly wish there were support groups in my area to assist as I have not had much luck from my therapist.
So crazy everything you’ve said is spot on. When I was younger I had no idea there was a term for this but I would always call my ex out on these things that I noticed and boy did he hate it. Now we have to co-parent and definitely being short and keeping it all about the kids has been the key for me.
Very informative! You're doing a great service for making this content available. Thank you!
Thank you so much!! An absolute eye-opener that will certainly have a huge positive impact on my life!
I’m so glad you found the video helpful. Be well.
Wow.
I cannot thank you enough for that video. You just put the exact words to describe word for word how my ex was.
I honestly love the way you talk about each disorder with respect for the person. I see myself in a lot of the Quiet BPD symptoms and the fact that I was in a relationship with that person with the covert narcissistic disorder for 7 years makes so much more sense now.
So yeah, thank you so much for what you are doing, please keep talking about people with disorders and not disorders alone.
A person is much, much more than just their disorder.
Thanks so much. yes. the key is your self control and calm. I dealed this type before but do not know this is covert . it improved my eq.
Sometimes challenge make us grow
Your videos are by far the most helpful videos in regards to handling narcissists. Every video explains how bad it is and that we need to run far away but what if we're already trapped in the cycle? You dive into what it's like to be in the cycle and to be stuck in these relationships and offer solid advice that feels like they can be accomplished. It's not easy to just cut them out and go as many other books and videos state, I've tried and so many others have tried to go completely no contact and it's so difficult especially if you're a co dependent. We need to approach it in the ways you advise us. So thank you ❤
Thank you for your time and energy that you put to make your videos