Jakiper's PACE BMS. Is the crucial Pack FullCharge Voltage the feature we have waited for?
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- This is the comprehensive test of the #PACE BMS which #Jakiper uses in their battery. The connections, the app(s), the settings... it's all a bit too much and took me while to figure it out. The DIP switch confusion is like a déjà vu from the Seplos experience. The BMS comes with great features on the paper, but it quickly lets your expectations down. Also, the default settings are a bit extreme for my taste, the cell OVP even too high. I would highly recommend checking your settings and parameters if you have one of their batteries with such a BMS. I also checked the balancing feature of this BMS and it is a total nightmare, so you definitely want an active balancer to help em' out.
What seemed to be the BMS with the most anticipated and crucial function, turned into a piece of technology from the 90s.
And again, the fix to make this BMS great again is just a software update away...
Jakiper still has some great deals and discount codes for their batteries:
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Active (smart) Balancer to help this BMS out:
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I have learned so much about controlling Lifepo4 batteries, so thank you. But mainly I watch so I can hear you say "Para-Meters"
It is parameters. Like I said!
Just wanted to say that the newer versions of the Pace BMS keeps the balancers on when the charging stops, but ONLY when you hit the cell OV alarm AND protect. Good thing is this makes balancing the battery "easy", even with 80ma worth of discharge per cell, just takes a few cycles, but only if you've helped the process by charging each cell up to the same level, then the 80ma balance can take care of the rest.
In 12 hours, I was able to get a 100mv deviation to under 20mv, but I changes the OV levels. Cell OVA at 3.55 and OVP at 3.60 with a release of 3.45 and balance start at 3.4, then just get your inverter to give it 55v and it'll balance itself overnight.
Still not optimal that you have to drive it into a protected status, especially when the default values are 3.7v for OVP and balance at 3.5, but it saved me having to get an active balancer that I'd use a a couple of times and that's it.
With the 1.03 firmware version You don't have to drive it into OVP to get the soc to reset, it will follow the pack fullycharge settings. But for the cheap price of the battery (Fogstar branded battery here in the UK), I think it's a decent BMS. It does everything a BMS should do.
What is the version of your pace bms that does that balancing when charging stops ? Does the balancing show on the software or just go off like in Andy's video ? I know Jakiper told me to let it go into OVP but there was no explanation that it would continue to balance. I have the pre pro model Jakiper batteries set my top voltage low so it would not get such a crazy high differential. But I just removed a battery from my rack and want to try to balance the cells, even if I have to do it manually on each cell.
@@LarryKapp1 Like I said at the bottom of my message, 1.03.
Yes it shows the balancing when the charging stops, that's how I know it's balancing.
@@sarahjrandomnumbers Andy's follow up video says it will balance when charging stops if it is in OVP , but not sure if every version of bms does this . Thanks for the info.
@@LarryKapp1 Mine never hits OVP though, that's the thing. The max cell voltage is 3.45v with a OVP of 3.6v.
So either the firmware changes a lot of things or the testing wasn't right.
Andy said in a recent video (gobel one) that he'll take another look at the paceBMS, so I guess we'll find out.
@scrapyardwars hi, how did you order these? i need some, thanks.
@Offi-Grid Garage - you have to use the RS485A port not the B or C - B and C is for Parallel communication, also the CCL is not double of the value in the Victron side - it depends on SoC, Temp and so on... when your batterier is a 50 oder 30% look again at the CCL - should be 1:1
The PC communication port did not work with the RS485. I believe this is just for the communication to an inverter not a PC.
I have not seen the CCL changing but will test this again. Thanks for your information.
Why paying around the double price for a ready built battery witch need to be modified before it can be used properly?
I will stay buying cellls....
Yes, some don't have the option or knowledge to build their own and just want one which works. But I'm with you on this one...
But is DIY half the price? I think there is not too much difference considering the compression case, cabling, BMS, and accessories...
I wish everyone and everything would just implement a CAN bus. You could hook up things like inverters, charge controllers, rectifiers, BMSes, control modules, even your EV on the same network and have a controller deal with everything, even if the protocols are different but documented, with a few simple lines of code. You could then just add a CAN to Bluetooth or Wifi module and have a single point of entry for any and all apps you want to write.
How many man-hours would that roughly involve per product?
@@diyEVguy Adding a CAN is straight forward. Most modern microcontrollers like the STM32 have versions with CAN. You only have to add a CAN transceiver chip such as a MCP2551, TJA1050 or similar. CAN is ubiquitous, well understood, and rather straight forward to add. The JK BMS has a CAN version, Victron uses it, etc. There is no reason why everything else shouldn't.
Every UART equiped microcontroller can can do it.
CAN ist just the electrical definition of the communication line, like RS485 or RS 232 or TTL are too. Its all asynchronous serial communication, the only difference is the line driver.
@@Juergen_Miessmer True, it just makes it easier when the micro supports CAN in silicon however. It's a little more involved that just hooking the transceiver to the UART if you want to talk proper CAN protocol.
@@upnorthandpersonal adding CAN is straightforward, implementing every higher level protocol isn't.
Thank you Andy i have now 2 new Orien power ( Jakiper ) batteries just in the wall mount version, and aperently som one was listening to u bc after changing (Pack Fullcharge Voltage) to 55.2 and Pack full Charge Current to 1000 it actualle did reset without any OVP , it just worked, it it a miracle , do i need to go to curch now ? or maby u have an old firmware ?
I don't think SoC should reset to 100%, it should represent full capacity from minimum to maximum voltage cells are rated for, by limiting charge voltage you're limiting maximum SoC which it reflects faithfully and this is expected behavior to me.
Hmm, OK, that's some point of view as well and very valid if you wan't the real SOC being displayed.
Charging to 55.2V and let the battery absorb at this point it already 99.5% and I never charge any higher during daily operation.
On the other hand I don't se the point if the battery is unbalanced and only on cell hits OVP, why would the SOC reset to 100%? That's not real 100% either.
Here is a list of all acronyms used in the video (some might be wrong)
1. BMS - Battery Management System
2. USB - Universal Serial Bus
3. RS232 - Recommended Standard 232 (serial communication protocol)
4. RS485 - Recommended Standard 485 (serial communication protocol)
5. CAN - Controller Area Network (serial communication protocol)
6. APP - Application (software)
7. AEST - Australian Eastern Standard Time
8. VIC - Victron Energy (electrical system company)
9. MOSFET - Metal-Oxide-Semiconductor Field-Effect Transistor
10. CEL - Cell (battery cell)
11. PCB - Printed Circuit Board
12. LCD - Liquid Crystal Display
13. EV - Electric Vehicle
14. ELF - Electric Vehicle Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery
15. DOD - Depth of Discharge
16. SOC - State of Charge
17. BL - Balance (balancer)
18. LED - Light Emitting Diode
19. COM - Communication (port)
20. TTY - Teletypewriter
21. RJ11 - Registered Jack 11 (telephone jack)
22. SMD - Surface-Mounted Device
23. CTS - Clear to Send (RS-232 signal)
24. RTS - Request to Send (RS-232 signal)
25. TTL - Transistor-Transistor Logic
26. PCB - Printed Circuit Board (again)
27. ADC - Analog-to-Digital Converter
28. UART - Universal Asynchronous Receiver-Transmitter
29. PWM - Pulse Width Modulation
30. CC - Constant Current
31. CV - Constant Voltage
32. FET - Field-Effect Transistor
33. DC - Direct Current
34. AC - Alternating Current
35. RDSon - Drain-Source On-Resistance (MOSFET specification)
36. LCD - Liquid Crystal Display (again)
37. NTC - Negative Temperature Coefficient (thermistor)
38. PTC - Positive Temperature Coefficient (thermistor)
39. OTP - Over-Temperature Protection
40. OVP - Over-Voltage Protection
41. UVP - Under-Voltage Protection
42. SOP - Small Outline Package (surface-mount IC package)
43. DIP - Dual In-line Package (through-hole IC package)
44. ICSP - In-Circuit Serial Programming (programming protocol for microcontrollers)
Great! What can we do with it?
HMI - human machine interface, PLC - programmable logic controller 😃
@@alanblyde8502 Trust me, there are waaaaay more of these in aviation. 😂🤣
I would suggest:
DB = Donkey Balls
;-)
I would say that "internal case temperature" limit of 60C should probably not be adjusted lower. 60C is standard for electronic components. That particular temperature sensor is probably integrated with one of the circuit boards (just an SMD part on the circuit board or even the micro-controller's internal temperature sensor). The ground and power planes of the circuit board(s) often serve second-duty as heat sinks in addition to the actual heat sinks, so lowering that parameter could wind up causing problems down the road.
Hi Andy, and thank you again for this really interesting video,
I know these BMS because I use similar ones in my battery packs.
The only solution to reset the pack to 100%, (of course the battery must go to OVP) But if you want to reset, just must change the SOC.
System Configuration: on the right at the top, SOC: remain capacity and full capacity, you put read, and after you change either the remain capacity or the full capacity, and write.
And the pack will show 100%.
But this is not normal, this pack apparently has a problem, because the cell 7 and another it seems to me go up to OVP BEFORE the full capacity.??
Obviously if you change the capcity (as explained before) it will go to 100% but apparently with only 91A of charge capacity?
Also if you set your pack, example over protection pack to 55.2V, when the pack will reach over voltage pack, normally also it will indicate 100% to be checked? because normally these BMS indicates 100% when the remain capacity goes up to Full capacity.
One thing is on these BMS balance cells very badly and very insufficiently? Need an active balancer too!
I will definitely do a test with an active balancer in some time...
I consider this as a fundamental design flaw having the BMS going into a OVP (pack or cell) just to show 100%. If all cells are at 3.4V and just one is at 3.65V, it will show 100%. That is not correct.
The solution for many of these BMS manufacturers is just a software update away.
Please consider asking Pylontech for a US5000 48v battery for testing & research or a couple..
in my opinion, fullpack current, is the "cut-off" current. but i am not 100% sure. would need to doublecheck.
Another note:
you are using super-old Firmware. (1.00)
i have seen on some newer Firmware, that balancing keeps going, after charging.
But the balancing power is still way too low
ok doublecheck done"
PBMS-Tool-Manual says:
"Fully Charge Cutoff Current: the cut-off current when battery pack is fully charged; according to manufacturer’s recommendation, typical 0.01CA"
@@Pedaaa version 1.03 of the firmware seems to have fixed the problems Andy saw. Balancers stay on when it hits alarm/protect, SoC resets when Pack Fullcharge Current/Pack Fullcharge voltage is hit.
Hi can anybody say to me if it's possible to select the number of cells in the software ? I need 15s not 16s for this pace BMS.
Yes, the Pace BSM can handle 15s batteries. Just set this in the software.
I am so glad, that you point out the missing balancing function. A lot of serverrack-style-batteries suffer from this. Some do not even have any balancing at all. Even Will Prowse did never have a close look at this matter, praising all those serverrack batteries without testing this essential feature😅
Funfact about Seplos 10C: DURING a Firmware downgrade from v2.9 to v2.8, the BMS actually balances with 160mA. Once the firmware downgrade is done, it is back to only 80mA....so they reduce balancing even more...probably with PWM.
Interesting observation you did there😮
He lives off the provision of selling batteries through his channel. So they must be good.
I'm interested to test things as good as I can and break it to make people aware of what they get into. I even broke the JK-BMS 🤨
Please let me know: Can I connect communication between Jikong-BMS and PACE-BMS? And how?
Andy, why do you complain? My DALY stopps balancing already under 2.5A charge becuase the current drops to zero then.
Question to DALY "Any slight chance to get this current measuring down to 500mA or lower?"
Answer "Who need such low current showing?"
Ähm.....
/Marc
Yes, I know, some BMS still have charge balance. Considering the very small balance current with these BMSes, it is really better to use an active balancer in addition.
There is a certain threshold for the shunt to measure current accurately. If it gets to low, measurement is inconsistent and inaccurately.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Yepp, I use one of that small circuits with Capacitors on it to have balancing.
Even if the measurement of the current is no longer acurat it should be possible to use it as a trigger for balancing.
But we are still at the beginning of this technic and every day the BMS builders improve their devices after your tests. ;-)
Prost
Marc
Hello can u give me the link of all software u have ? Thanks a lot
It's on my website under the Gobelpower and Pace BMS:
off-grid-garage.com/battery-management-systems-bms/
Hi I really like your In Site's on BMS
I was wondering if you had any In Site into REC BMS
VICTRON GX-SUPPORTED
BATTERY
MANAGEMENT SYSTEM
WITH MPPT REMOTE
ENABLE REC Q BMS
Rev 2.9.0 January 2023
Firmware version 1Q-4000+
This is the BMS that I'm using in my system, Im looking foward to your comments
Cheers
Well atleast Daly smart balancer works and CAN communication works now with victron, Deye and phocos inverters..
Hi. Help me please. I bought this (very, very similar) battery (2E-LFP48100). It charges from my UPS to 55.3V and shows 94% SOC at the end of charging (all cells are charged almost equally 3.439-3.475, except for one - 3.404). But there is a problem. Immediately after reaching 94%, the SOC starts to drop by about 1% every day. I waited for the SOC to drop to 65% and tested the battery for capacity - everything is fine, it holds as expected (it worked for a long time with SOC 0%). What could it be? In fact, it doesn’t really matter to me what SOC it shows, the main thing is that there would be no daily drop in SOC. Thanks and sorry for the bad English (I'm from Ukraine).
Where can you download the rs485 version of the software? (pmbs tools 485 1.22) Can't find it anywhere.
Daly BMS does the same. and it's even written in their so called manual. I just set OV potection to 3.60 and forget about it.
Hi Andy , I have downloaded a few versions on the pbms tools software but none of them show the Inverter Protocol or the inverter Set Functions . How do I configure the protocol? Thank You
from my own experience on DIY battery , i can say use a so complex bms is just too much problems , i personaly run on lead acid mode since 4 years , peak voltage on 16 s lifepo4 is 54.9 v and on non communication bms i cutted active balance , and the bms never cut in 4 years , i ajust low voltage at 50
A bit disappointing. I just received two of these batteries but i am looking at getting an active balancer fur each one
Are they not top balanced when you got them? Jakiper has recommended to start the BMS balancer at 3.3V. I find this a bit too early and it makes not much sense.
Basically with all these pre-build batteries, the balancer is not up for the job of balancing these large capacity cells.
They were pretty much balanced but when charged up there is a bit of variation and one cell a lot higher than the rest. I was thinking of getting an active balancer. I use additional balance boards in the power tool batteries i build.. works good
... and you really believe that a BMS that does not even indicate 500mA charging current is accurate to 1/100V (0.01V)? Regardless of the temperature, the charging current and the frogs outside ...
... und du glaubst wirklich, dass ein BMS das nicht mal 500mA Ladestrom anzeigt, auf 1/100V ( 0,01V ) genau ist? Unabhängig von der Temperatur, dem Ladestrom und den Fröschen draußen ... 🤣😉
What usefulness is in the variety of sleep and wakeup functions?
Sleep & wake function is good for your battery to storage or standby conditions, to reduce the self consumption from BMS.
rofl, GD , still in the stone ages, that ui so old school 90's and before. cheap Chinese i guess..
This is NOT a fashionshow 'hier'. But I have to repeat: ordinary glasses, blue glasses, no glasses, grey shirt, red shirt, no shirt, short pants, purple pants or no pants - you 'ALWAYS look sharp and crisp'! 😉🙃
Oh, John.... I'm getting this weird feeling now and a bit hot... 😊
Hey Andy. The full charge amps are just what you thought. But the stupid pace BMS cannot recognise a current
I mean 0 or 500 is below 1000 ...
@@lifepolicy
Don't know what you mean, but 0A is not below 500mA charging, cause 0A means NO CHARGING
That's how this BMS works...does it make sense? Ask the Great Chinese engineers 🐸😜
@@Der_Hannes It totally makes sense. That BMS is a piece of .... . It just needs to meet two conditions: V > set value + A < set value = SOC reset. And obviously, 0.000 is < 0.500A . That's how normal people would configure it. But not the Chinese.
I was thinking the same thing, set it to 0.750mA so it could still read it. If you watch it didn't over voltage till 3.651V so in my mellon it wouldn't reset till it read 0.499V which it can't read but could actually read from 0.749mA to 0.500mA. Still will not fix the imbalance.
Well, I can't. The cell will hit 3.65V before that and shuts off the BMS.
Hey Andy can you put your hands on any of these “new” 670w solar panels and take a look? Thanks!
What panels are they?
@@OffGridGarageAustralia they are a few brands but the most knowed is Trina wich sold them. It’s half kw in noct conditions (data sheets)
This sucks! All these "fancy" and overpriced server rack style batteries are always mostly locked down on setting and are all basically the same crap software. It seems that a diy lithium is still the only way to have a fully customizable battery and bms. What a let down!!
Yeah, all these BMS are very similar in how they behave and operate. I'm still waiting for the one....
I have the same PACE BMS in my LVTOPSUN battery. Great video. Really need to try to get the battery data into my Home Assistant. Do you know where I can download the software that interfaces with this BMS? Thank you.
The software is on the Jakiper website to download. Good luck with your project.
Stick a JK BMS into it Andy 🙂
Wait for the next video! 😁
It takes a huge set donkey balls to even send you this pack with a BMS of this "quality". The community has set it's own parameters when it comes pack charging with BMS which companies just not seem to understand.
I think the BMS is pretty cool, maybe even better than the Seplos. I'll show more in a video soon. Yeah, but the battery not being top balanced is not so cool.
Regarding the RS485 software, you should be able to use it with the dipswitch in the on position (and having CAN comm to Victron) if you set ADDR to 1 instead of 0
Nope, tried that and no comms. That was how it worked with the Seplos BMS and software, not here though...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia not gooooood
My 4 new seplos 10E BMS will reset to 100% even without hitting any of the protection parameters after they bulk charge for awhile. I haven't figured out the exact criteria yet though. Also, with communication connected, the max charge voltage setting seems to only control the charge voltage requested from the inverter and it is NOT an actual protection setting. I think this is how you wanted it to work actually.
I have tested mine extensively and never found another trigger point than OVP. Which is also confirmed by SEPLOS.
The only other method is when the BMS has counted enough Ah to hit the 0.0Ah left before the real 100%. But this would mean it is not calibrated correctly and shows the wrong numbers.
Ok you made me smile 😁..... Donkey balls😂
Lots of them!
Makes me wonder if what you see on the software is an interim implementation...
Your victron systems are always getting updates which you have been very on top of keeping up to date. Are there software / firmware updates for this product???
Yes, there are few updates for the Pace BMS as well. More about this in a future video...
That’s why I like using the jkbms without communication with my all in one inverter. set it all myself with a low ovpc.
My battery shelf works like this for 1year plus without any problems.
For what it's worth: They say they are developing their own BMS to have full control. It is my impression that Pace does not deliver the software changes they want.
The Pace BMS is delivered by Pace not Orient Power or Jakiper. Same to Seplos and QSO. None of these make their own BMS. But soon, we will be testing one which is made and sold by the same company. Could be a game changer...
Andy, I have to break a lance for the seplos bms: because I'm charging to 55,5V and it sets to 100%! Without overvolt protection! I have only set the overvolt alarm per cell to 3.45v, the point where the deviation starts, to reduce the charce current to 10A. Additionally the NEEEEYYYY balancer kicks in at 3.45v... but the bms is charging till there are 280Ah in the battery with 55.5V. There is no problem. Between 98 and 100 percent my deviation rises to round about 55mV and the NEEEEYYYY put this unter 10mV in minutes and the battery is fully charged...
Is my seplos bms a lonesome rider, or what? 😂😮
Greetings from Germany. Oli
What Seplos BMS do you have and what are the settings for OVP and OV Alarm? Do you et the BMS control your inverter/charger/MPPT?
🦦 Fashion Show with Andi 1 to 10 in the garden, pool, garage, house, car would be very funny 😂.
One with zztop beard 😂🥳
Hey Andy question on the pace bms's I have two battery packs both are 200-amp 48-volt the FCC display is 169 on one of them and the other one is 179 would very much like to see those get reset have had no luck getting anything from the manufacturer. So if I was to take my mppt and crank it up to 58 volts hopefully to get a reset would that work or whatever suggestion you may have would be appreciated
bump
Excellent testing. Thanks for sharing
It's just like a Daly bms...s#@t
Ok, so I do not want my battery to report 100% SOC when it is not storing 100% charge - i.e. all the cells are fully charged. Not being able to charge does not equate to fully charged.
So I would expect any a BMS to not report 100% while the cells are significantly unbalanced since this is an abnormal condition and I feel that getting 100% SOC after a cell over voltage is unexpected behaviour.
I think it would add value to this video if you explored the BMS's behaviour with better cell balancing.
I believe my own batteries use the same BMS and for me the biggest issue is that the charge voltage limit is not adjusted by the BMS to prevent cell over voltages (as did the BMS of my previous battery).
Well, the BMS can report 100% even the battery is not. That's a good think because we don't want the battery to be 100% charged. So achieving a 99.5%SOC at 55.2V and call this 100% is great, I think.
As you said, if the battery is unbalanced and only one cell hit OVP, it makes no sense to call this 100% either.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia yeah , my Jakiper batteries shut down this winter because I was relying on their soc reading. They showed higher SOC than they really were after I was charging with generator ( Wisconsin short winter days and two weeks of deep overcast !) The SOC from my Midnite controller was accurate and I started relying on that instead of pace bms SOC.
Love your charging play-by-play. Better than baseball, soccer, or cricket.
Thanks a lot Steven. I'm getting far to excited with that sometimes 😂
When you get cell ov alarm bms stop balancing, you can trigger the charge circuit button to let bms work again
Yeah, but that's a manual process...
The Chinese copy from on another or went to the same school. Good on you Andy teach them how it should be done.
It's a long way...
pack alarm are not useless,if communicated with inverter,these value determine the charging voltage
You can still use the cell alarm. Pack voltage is not really necessary any more.
Blue looks good, like a clear blue sky 👌🏻
Slap a Neeeeeeeeeeeeey on that puppy and get'r done... works like a charm on my Seplos.
Oh...
Exactly how my interface looks and works on my batteries, they are Enersol, so on my battery connected to the CAN the invertor protocol is pylon (DeYe) CAN and the second pack that connected via 485 to the first pack is paecic. My Cell overvoltage was also 3.7V I Also do not understand it... Weird though, I am using CAN AND RS232 all at the same time.... because I am using VNC to be able to remotely monitor my batteries at cell level so my first batteries dip switch is 1 and the protocol for the invertor must be set to pylon DEYE. The balancer ONLY WORKS WHILE CHARGING!!!!! That sucks though. Thank fully though my cells are very closely balanced now so I have no issues any more
Thank you for sharing. Can you configure all BMS through the RS232 and software? I believe you can select which BMS you want to connect to?
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Hi Andy, NO, you can't reach all the bms's only the one that the RS232 cable is plugged into. My batteries actually shipped with the dongles which helps, but, for remote configuration you can only acces the battery that the dongle is plugged into, you can however in the monitoring software switch between the packs to see the statuses of the individual cells but not setup or change parameters on other BMS's. As I've said in my video's I am using VNC to RDP into my batteries remotely to check status's. Have a good day.
Hi Andy, could you please let me know wether the “parameter setting” was unlocked somehow?
In my battery (same Jakiper) even button “read” is inactive in parameter setting window. The password didn’t unlock this window.
P.S. thank you for your experiments, they are really helpful! :)
Another great review, I just took delivery on one of these batteries just yesterday haven’t connected it up as yet, so will be interesting to see what the parameters are, I am going to connect my existing AGM 48 volt 440ah batteries with the jackyperrr battery, I will be using a device called Bankmanager V2 which in its own right will take care of both Lithium and lead acid charging, I’d like to hear of what Andy and everyones opinions are on this device if possible, you can Google it as bankmanager bbms 🤙
This is Clark's BMS. He got in contact with me a year ago or so and offered me one for testing I believe. Others have stated, it's not necessary as Li and AGM will work next to each other with no problems. I haven't done any testing though but would have a lead acid battery and some LFP batteries here...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia yeh I can see people’s point but since then there’s a lot more details about it, as he mentions constantly topping up lithium batteries isn’t good, eg when a starter or generator comes on, the way it’s configured with a contactor and charges to lead I like and most importantly Safe.
I just bought one hell expensive to ship to Australia, but 🤷♂️ be good one to test out Andy, keep up the good work luv your channel have learned so much👌
Ha from sunny western Oz
Sounds like the PACE, cant keep up with the pace. LOL Get a Rope...........................!!!
It's actually not that bad once setup...
I am looking to build a 48v 200amp with 280ah battery. I am looking really hard at the JBD bms that has all the extra a parts for running it parallel like jakaper. I know your a JBD fan. Me to. Have 3 electric bikes. All have the JBD. I am going to put a active balancer on it to. You said the 4TH NEEY 4A Smart Active Balancer is really good yes. I plan on building 4 to 5 of these battery packs. It’s for my home in Ukraine. Any suggestions you have would really be helpful.
Thanks for everything you do. You have so much to teach.
The JBD BMS is great too but lacks the active balancer. I know they can be paralleled as well with their communication board. I will test this at some stage here on the channel.
Why don't you get a JK for your battery and save the money for the extra balancer? Communication is not really necessary, I think...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia it has rs485 plus can. But I can run them in parallel? I’m using a Deye inverter.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia All this stuff is new to me. I thought if I’m running 6 battery in parallel they all need to communicate with inverter? I built a copper bus bar like you. No daisychain. Will inverter charge battery with out communication? The SOK and Jakiper use Pace bms. The JK bms has rs485 and cam but can’t parallel. Wish I could just call you for just 5 minutes. Thanks
Hi Andy, were i can find the communication cable from Battery to PC.
It is a usb to rs232 converter and the one that goes from the rs232 only need three wires to rj12 connector. The pinout is shown in Jakiper or Orient Power manual. There is also a usb to rs232 cable direct that you can get - but I haven't tried one of those .
if it would be too easy we wouldn't earn money
I don't think full 100% should reset if any cells are below 3.370 to 3.400vdc. Total pack voltage would be okay if coupled to maximum cell voltage deviation to a balance voltage difference setting. 100% SoC should consider minimum cell voltage since that lowest cell will set the maximum extractable capacity from the pack.
I do like having a manual button that allows me to reset to 100% for the case where you don't fully charge pack, along with a lower setting for battery AH capacity. It is then up to you to monitor cell balancing.
Hello Andy, I send you by email some information about QSO BMS, could you check it
Thumbs up 👍: One ☝️ for all can we get 1 dial tone. Kids don’t know how to dial a phone anymore 😊
fact this are very ship bmses , they hardly pay more than 15usd for each
Is this something you know or just assume?
Thanks for interesting video - as always. I just want to say one thing: Your blue glasses are very nice and I bought one too 👍
hello, my Orient power battery no longer charges to 100, I lose 2A every day. I failed to reset SOC, what settings should I do?thank You
What settings have you set right now? BMS, charger, inverter?
@@OffGridGarageAustralia bulk charge 55,2V and float charge 54V invertor seting
When things go wrong you can't beat having an RS232 console port & have the ability to troubleshoot using PuTTY
Yeah, a simple console interface is just an expected part of any controller firmware development.
Isn't that the same with RS485 though? The RS232 comms seems very stable though, no problem having it up and running the whole day...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia RS485 is multi-node, longer range & faster & therefore more complicated.
RS232 in its simplest form just has TX+RX+GND at each end, with a crossover cable. It's as simple as communications get. You can even do some troubleshooting on it with a voltmeter. Thousands of devices across multiple industries have RS232 ports on them so engineers can diagnose. Old world, but solid & simple. View it as a diagnostic port though, not an integration port.
Heya, why does it have to be that difficult????
Software on these BMS is always horrible...
Start retrofitting these dogs to use the glorious JK BMS and offer online for a small fee, OR license back to clearly underused engineering departments across China
But then you have holes in the front panel and no display. Would need to 3d print a new front...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia That's a form over function concern. How much could a replacement faceplate cost? Not to mention the opportunity to design a solid replacement containing a quality face layout with every good design element learned from these various manufacturers' attempts. What's quicker, design and create a bolt on prototype that would work for all, or wait for Jakiper, et al to get it right?
Always thought that the donkey image was Donkey sh**t vs Donkey balls
Thanks Andy 😖 👍
Es la cuenta pendiente de fabricantes chinos saben fabricar baterías y saben como destruir sus baterías pero no como cuidar su salud ,he visto muchos videos con problemas de balanceo no quiero pensar como estarán las baterías de mi coche si el bms se fabricó alli
All batteries with this bms has the same settings... I always change mine...I think all batteries in china use the same settings
Nice video!
Looks like Heltec + A30 controller surgery schedule is needed😃
RS232 is back again.
When are you gonna release an unboxing video about the next big thing of the decade, the nrand new c128, sucessor of the c64?
If it is rs282 time again it feels like the NC era aka famous what?
Norton Commander = nc exe which required a rs282 cable or a very good parallel cable😅 bäck then
A much more older way for serial communication is the mouth to ear interface using the old fashioned protocol named speech.... ;-)
But still in use for a verry good reason !
RS232 interface can't be back, it has never gone.
Another solid review and hard sell for this battery system. Keep up the great service Andy.
I plan to build 6 to 8. Diy 48v 200am 280ah battery packs witch bms would you use? Seplos-JBD or something else?
Hard to tell. Do you need communication between the batterie? If not, the JK-BMS is still the greatest for such a setup.
If you use comms, the PACE BMS seems to be a bit better than the Seplos BMS, but I'm still testing all the features...
Hello and thank you for your videos. I built my off grid system based on your videos and advices. I just wanted to ask one question. Can you make a video where you explain how to connect Victron II or (In my case it is Quattro 48 - 10 000VA) to the grid using grid only as backup in case there is no sun and batteries low. At the moment I have to switch manually. Can Victron handle that function or it is only can work off grid or UPS mode? Another question is my house in TN-C-S grounding system. Am I right grounding to the main ground point? I don't think I need another grounding rod, isn't it? (This is not mobile house, just a normal house connected to the grid)
Thanks for your comment. I think I have shown this when I setup my MP II. I'm not connected to the grid though, so just using the MP off-grid with its own micro grid.
Yes, the MP or quattro can handle such a situation. Pretty much what I use as well with my second inverter.
The grounding is explained in the manual of the MP or Quattro. They don't need an extra ground cable or rod as along as they are permanently wired to a fixed installation which has the ground/earth included.
Thanks, Andy. I always enjoy the time spent with you in the off grid garage.
just use any simple USB to RS232 cable, haha. No need for those 1000 fancy adapters...
I did.
Howdy
The CVL parameter should be calculated by the BMS and dynamically changed on the fly. Having it set to a hard figure is bad design - and goes against Victron BMS design.
CVL is a constant voltage and should not change until the battery is full. Once it is full, it should lower that CVL to a set voltage (like Float Mode).
If the BMS resets to 100% because of the imbalance at soc of 91%, shouldnt it Set the soh to 91%? Because you cant Charge any higher?
No, this is balance problem, not capacity loss.
Great, exactly my expectation when I say the Full charge voltage. But unfortunately it's like the Seplos 😢
And like the QSO and probably many others...
Ordnun muss sein! 😂
🐸🐸🐸
Have you ever noticed that you are the only person complaining about the balance function. In every single video? Top balance once and be done.
Hello, Is there a way to top balance a 48-volt server rack battery when the sixteen battery cells (S16) are already connected to each other in series? I am trying to learn, and it seems one needs to connect the sixteen battery cells in parallel first in order to top balance, then disconnect them and reconnect them in series. Thanks
@@majid_us I use a Riden power supply, set to 3.65v and let it run until it shuts off. You don't need to disconnect the cells, just connect to each positive and negative. Easier if you charge the battery to cell high voltage disconnect first.
This will not work John. One cell will be peaking and shut off the charging. The balancer (50mA) will then discharge this high voltage cell until the charging starts again. In theory, it should balance you pack over time (a very long time) but in reality it does not as we have tested.
The only solution for such a pack is to open the case and either connect an active balancer or charge up all cells individually (which still does not top balance the pack correctly).
@@OffGridGarageAustralia worked on the 8 packs for me.
12:10 Many are willing to push their batteries to 55⁰c because it is within manufacturer's specification.
I know one person even claim his battery is rated factory rated 70⁰c.
Many are willing...? I don't know any of these persons...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia In your circle of people, maybe you don't find them.
In a local solar group, they do exist in mobs. I told them 40⁰c is benchmark. They reply back with "That is because your EVE is (substandard) up to 40⁰c; ours is (superior) up to 70⁰c".
Just look at your default BMS settings of 55⁰c, 60⁰c, 65⁰c . . . regular users WILL NOT bother with these "factory settings".
Yo!
Good morning
Hi 👋
Hi Andy, all your BMS experiences still give me the the confirmation, that i have done a good choice to go with the jkbms. They balance well and in combination with the BSC firmware running on ESP32 they talk to my inverter and all their data is sent to HA witch i use as central monitor of my solar system.
Agreed...I top balanced my pack with the jk the other day where it managed to balance within 5mv at a cell voltage of 3.5... my upper limit... impressive. Glad to have a jk bms
Yes, the active balancer is THE feature here. Once one of these manufacturers will include this in these BMS, they will sell like hot cakes. Comms to the inverter will be very easy and plug'n play.
Freedomwon etower batteries have the same software, updated firmware of bms and it worked
Hi, please send me your email address, and I will wetransfer the latest firmware and tools. It now balances in idle state as well
Another case for an active balancer. It's funny that the settings are so far off. It doesn't say much for the company.
Or top balance once and be done. I gave up when I watched him change balance parameters 8 times in one video.
How do you top balance a pre-built battery if the balancer turns off?
18:22 seems the tabs in the software that were missing are now showing?
Two different software products...
Andy, I think OCP does need to be there at those settings. Think of the scenario where you have multiple batteries (in my case I have 9 of the SEPLOS MASON's) and several of them stop charging during BULK or ABSORPTION because of Cell OVP, then you could be pushing 100+ amps to 1+ batteries (I have 3 CC) and they can put out over 200 amps during those stages which isn't a problem for my 280Ah cells, but if I had 100Ah packs, I'd want that feature. BTW, I live 100% off-grid and love all of the luxuries my system can provide.
Thanks, David. I think if you have 9 batteries in parallel and the charger keeps charging even some of the batteries disconnect because of OVP, there is something not setup or working correctly. Isn't that the exact purpose of having communication between the batteries and charger setup to either stop charging altogether or at least slow it down? Otherwise such a setup and effort makes no sense...
I don't have any comms in my battery shelf and also three different BMS. That would be the exact same behaviour to the far more expensive Seplos BMS...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia You are probably correct. In my case, I have some 272Ah and some 280Ah (I forgot to add that in original post.) It's kind of weird too w/these SEPLOS'. Some of my packs only get to ~50% charge while others report 90+%. No correlation with cell Ah sizes. All hover around the same top-end voltages, so maybe I did something wrong when I calibrated the SEPLOS (manually) for 100% SOC.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia The "smart" of the pace bms seems to keep all interconnected batteries close to the same voltage from what I have seen. Not sure how that would effect the balancing .
@@LarryKapp1 I now have a second Pace BMS and Jaki battery, so I will test how this works and how they communicate and interact with each other and the inverter/Victron.
Thanks Andy and Yeah, …. I’m using RS232 for my Morningstar Tristar MPPT solar controller … which I’ve had for about 11 or 12 years.
It’s a really great solid piece of gear, BUT I must say it’s relatively hard work adjusting things and updating firmware etc compared to others like Victron.
Also out of interest, RS 232 has been around since 1960, ie: over 60 years!! I was just a child when it kicked off!!
Re the Jaki battery: OUCH! 270mv difference between top and bottom, FAIL. You’re doing a great service reviewing this stuff!
DE-9 :)
Yeah, that one...
Like# 1
You made it Paul! Gold Medal for you 🥇
@@OffGridGarageAustralia woot! I happened to be driving up to Phoenix to pick up those additional 540watt panels!
For me they come at 22:00 hahah but its a good time too watch before sleep 🛌
UK?
@@OffGridGarageAustralia cet +1