NEW Jakiper 'Jaki' 230Ah, 11.8kWh on the testbench. WHAT have they done???
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- We are testing the brand new Jakiper 'Jaki' 51.2V/230Ah server rack battery in all details. Safety features, built and design quality, BMS and cabling, settings and parameters, full charge and discharge test, IR check and much more. At the beginning of my test series, I found some concerning points with this battery. Jaki's tech support could quickly help and answered all my questions within a few hours.
We also have a look at the 200A Pace BMS and the settings. I show you how to connect the battery to the Victron system and how to parallel it with another Jakiper batteyr with different capacity and BMS. Kinderleicht!
I am, once again, impressed by the Jakiper battery. It seems to tick a lot of boxes and also the BMS is easy to program and setup. For everyone who is not into DIY batteries, have a look at the link below for a great discount deal until end of July 2023.
All info about the July 2023 Special Discount Offer:
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Flying overhead the Sunflower fields during summertime when the bright yellow orange heads are in full bloom mode is as beautiful as the fall Aspen trees. I think that the Sunflower blooms are special though, in how they maximize solar gain at its fullest as the entire crop turns their heads into the sun early at sunrise tracking the sun all the way up and over to the western sunset. Truly magnificent!
Yeah, they have it a bit easier with their tracking... 😁
Your a great ambassador Andy, appreciate all your late night testing spot on🤙🇦🇺
Andy is amazing.
Very interesting build, thanks for showing us what is possible.
You want to buy or DIY of your own like this model?
Thanks for all the info Andy, I have 2x of thier 100ah pro model, they were both 104.5 /103.4 ah from the factory, both have added 0.10 ah while in use, and they have balanced themselves very well.
Thanks.
That is great, thanks for sharing.
Hi, Andy. I love following your videos. You bring so much life into an otherwise dry technical solar/battery videos. Unfortunately, we down here in Africa can only wish we could afford lithium batteries because of the cost. Most of us are stuck with flooded lead acid batteries (tubular batteries). However, it doesn't prevent me from enjoying your videos.
Try this 51.2V 230Ah one, it is more economic compare with other models.
You got some great videos! I bought 8 EVE 330 and 8 EVE 300 to run at 24 volt with 2 BMS. Your wiring looks wonderful compared to my wiring; hand wiring BMS and 8 mini-voltage meters to my battery banks is a task, but I do enjoy working with electronics. I did use 4 gauge cables for my batteries to connect to my buzz bars; and 2 gauge to my inverter. My solar system is 4K now that I have 12 330 watt panels. I can not use all of this power since my house uses less than 10K a day, but I set it up for overkill and cloudy days and during the winter. Wonderful work you do on your channel!
You did great job, share us about your works. @powerwall
Thanks a lot for your kind words and also sharing your own project. Sounds like a great setup you have there.
Thanks Andy! Great use of the engine hoist!
IT"S A CRANE!!!!!
Hi Mr. Andy, I'm from Indonesia, I always watch your videos. Very useful for me, I got a lot of knowledge about solar power plants. Greetings healthy and successful always. Sorry if my language is not good, because I use translation.
Thanks a lot for saying hello. All the best to Indonesia 👋
Hello Indonesia.
Hi Andy, and thanks again for this really good video 😊
Hello and thank you!
I'll take two of them for my Skoolie... LOL!!! I can dream.
Amazing set up🎉
Thanks.
Hi Andy, Thanks you for all your great videos. Very informative and fun to watch.
I Bought 2 of these batteries, changes settings in the BMS based on your recommandations (OVP 3,65 - OVP Package 58,4 - Balance threshold 3,45 - Full Pack Voltage 55,2, etc.) In Inverter protocol field No choice only Paceic. I fully charged the two batteries, connect hem together and finally connect communication cable to my GX device. My curb showa them as Pylontech batteries and the parameters are: CVL: 57,60V (Pack OV Alarm) and both CCL and DCL are at 390A (No idea where it comes from). I download the Gobel power BMS to be able to change the Inverter CAN protocol to Victron. Reboot my GX Device after and the only thing that change is the Battery name from Pylontech to Victron. All the parameters stay the same. What I did wrong?
After few days of testing I can confirm that in version 2.03 of the software PACE changes the fields linked to Victron CVL, CCL and DCL settings for the following:
CVL: Pack OV Alarm (V)
CCL: Chg OC Alarm minus 10A (x n with multiple batteries)
DCL: DSG OC Alarm minus 10A (x n with multiple batteries)
Along with this great review of jaki battery those three big seplos boxes took my attention 👀
Coming up soon... something very exciting.
Thanks Andy 👍
Just a little update Andy, the Jaki batteries are going well, now in full service powering one house and a granny flat, the biggest single load is a rotten electric storage hot water heater which pulls around 4kw. So far we have needed the grid for 7 hours in the last 7 days and that was due a couple of rainy days back to back. The Growatt 12k seems to be working very well. Keep up the great work with the videos. Have an Oettinger for me, ( I've just finished yours) 🍺🍺
37:15 I like how you show SIX and say EIGHT, but you say it so kindly that Im already convinced :)
It's confusing, right?😂
So cool you got the first one.. like having the first car off of production line. It's cool when companies listen to customers and make improvements. I drives me crazy when they skimp on cables.. there is no point . We will gladly pay another $5 for better cables lol. Good video andy
we are using 2*4AWG for each terninal for mass production.
Cabling has now been upgraded and shout match the 250A circuit breaker. The battery is great and I love it.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia those were some solid cells for sure!!
The Gobel Power 14,3kWh battery has also this circuit breaker.
Yes, I'm looking forward to test the Gobel battery once it arrives here.
Does anyone have a make and model number for this breaker? Want to add one to my home made box. I know Andy has a video of this very mod, just have to find it. 😀 Andy, need ya brother.
Good job, great review Andy, looks like the new Jakiper has smashed it out of the park in nearly all the boxes.
A B/T app would make it great & so much more user friendly for the average Joe to be able to interact & understand what’s going on in there as a complete off the shelf battery.
While it’s hard to fault the charge & balancing test you did as it balanced fairly perfectly for its 1st time, it would be nice to see these new batteries come out with an external active balancing port as a plug n play option, if not one built into it.
Some have commented on the price, but when u consider the off the shelf bundled features, safety & simplicity this adds quickly to any off grid type system most average tinkerers are successfully capable of doing in a short time frame, coupled with all the extra gear we need to buy & wait for to build a battery like this in Australia, it is probably good money spent. Cry once. Cheers
I also thought, the price is too high but as you said considering all the material they used, case, flexible busbars, DC circuit breaker, BMS, ... it's actually pretty reasonable. And you get your 10yrs warranty on top, so...
Some also cannot build their own batteries and are looking for alternatives.
Gday Andy, my order of 4 Jaki 230Ah has arrived. All had 3.70v in the cell voltage charge setting. The top balancing is working really well with less than 5mV between cells most times. I did lift the lid on one of the batteries and noticed 2x 4AWG cables on the +ve terminal also. The only issue that Ive had so far is the quality of the side lifting hadles is a bit average for the weight.
I lifted them into position with a block-n-tackle. I'll add a photo later. Using them with a Growatt 12kW inverter down here in Vic Au. 😊 not as sunny as Qld but it is what it is... !
Yeah, the handles... I didn't worry too much about it as they are being used once.
Wow, you've got 4 of these batteries. That is a big setup, nice!
Tanks for your test Andy! Nice Battery and price! PS: Cool Crane 😀
Australia in stock battery
Bien ! Effectivement la conception de cette batterie est d`une grande propreté malgré les cables un peu fins je trouve aussi. merci du partage.👍
busco pareja en area de habla hispana
My God! Entire Outlander PHEV battery in a box!
It's also on wheels though 😄
It is a safe bet that the battery sent to him has cherry-picked cells. It would be interesting to see the same set of tests for a battery purchased from a distributor.
yeah that is what I was thinking.
230Ah average cell capacity is 214-245.6Ah.
Agree.We need to see what feedback is once many of this model are on the market.
I bought assembled REPT 300ah/280AH package after six months I had 3 balloon cells we had to cut through the structure to get them out they were replaced by warranty but the guy told me that this was abused any way still trying to balance them even though I have 2 packages 105ah eve 2 years old in parallel with this one they are okay. The bad cells rendered the capacity down to just 150AH
Even if you have to top balance it once, the quality of the battery is there.
Another informative video.
Looks like the quality is there in the Jakipear 👍
Good idea with your crane
I think I may need to look into getting one 👍.
You have had as many comments on the crane as the battery 😂😂😂
Thanks Andy!
Hahaha, yeah, I did actually a whole video assembling the crane but decided to just put it into one of the next videos. It's a bit off-topic...
But it works well and can also lift them onto my workbench.
I've been patiently waiting for the tests of this model.
The price per capacity is just an amazing value right now.
I think so too, for what you get, it's great.
Have you ordered?
@powerwall getting ready to. There on sale right now. I've missed a couple sales.
@@powerwallI'm in the US
@@lickalittle yes, you can order now.
Wire crosssection depends:
Current
Cable length
Acceptable voltage drop
A 16mm2 is capable of 63A, but that's meant for a cable of 50m or even more and 230V tension with less than 4% voltage drop.
Regarding your concerns: The shorter the cable, the more current it can handle. The lower the voltage, the more percentage of voltage drop will be produced. Thicker is better, but copper is expensive. Voltage drop on the 16mm2 in your battery produces a voltage drop of 0,1V (0.2%) at 200A and a power loss of 20W over the cable. As you are not constantly pulling 11kW, numbers will decrease, in my opinion cable size is acceptable.
Correct, the voltage drop is essential and tells us which cable size we can use. The shorter the better.
For our battery installation, the 3% or 4% rule does not really apply But I was trying to keep my cables under 2% for all my installations
Put the negative on the opposite end to the positive. It forces the power through the entire set instead of preferring the shortest run.
beside the crane i see you have also a nice trolly
Andy, consider taping down an ample square of that typical P.E. packing foam across the 'flying temp sensors'. It greatly decouples the sensors from the air and forces them closer to the actual battery temperatures. It's cheap too! LOL
Good idea. I'll also ask Jaki what the intension was of having them hovering above the cells. Maybe another 'test' for battery 001?!
NICE JOB
You are correct about the leads from the BMS to the terminals. No way in @#$! that will ever pass UL listing. Especially since they are advertising a 200A load limit.
I'm considering getting an engine puller / shop crane to suspend my legs for sleeping when my back is really bad. 😂
Great, It will fully support you. Like a comfortable swing😁
I think a better solution for the parameter boxes would be to grey them out if the related checkbox is unset.
suggestion noted. thank you thomas
Like# 27 Taj-Ma-Haul hit 28.2kWatt/hours a couple of days ago, mostly consumed by my mini-split. We hit 113f (45c) and I had TMH's AC set to 62f (16.7c)
Nice, enjoy your summer!
Hey Andy, could you make an Video about Updating the Firmware from the Pace BMS?
Heya, oh yeah the looks in side are as good as the out side and what it delivers just a beauti.
Ruixu just announced they have stock in AU warehouses... hope to see some installs soon..
They contacted me twice. Just another pre-assembled battery....
here is another idea for your tilted panels or even tracking panels called how ? sunflower
search for the video Für wen ist sie gedacht? Sunflower
and start watching from second 45 and then you have at least a nice , funny to watch 5 second video snippet to show of a flower - just out of curiosity .
Might be usefull for whom ever but a nice idea to explain flowers and tracking. Has been on the munich solar fair and was quite impressing in reality even though terrible expansive.
But a nice version to bring kids and adults to think twice . I had seen something similiar in an outdoor bar to generate power and this time spend shadow for the guests.
Great idea - but partly useable cause the owner complained that he had messed it up when he had instantly bought 3 or 5 of these cause he had forgotten that a moving sun and tracking solar panels would result in a moving shadow which then will cause a traffice jam after chain reaction when guests are moving their chairs and tables .
He is calling it a stupid mistake in his business case cause it requires a lot more space or a specfically fitted table setup of round half tables that are connectted so that the guests can not start moving the tables. But he had ran out of money and will to invest more as he had said.
Hi Andy, Complete rooky here and this is in fact the first video Iof yours I have watched. A question, why a 51.2V battery? Doesn't this mean it's incompatible with plenty of 48V charger/inverter units?
✅ learning experience 😂 ok I get it, now and I too now understand 😊
Great video Andy, do you know anyone in Brisbane that installs the Jakiper Batteries to an existing solar system.
Do you have detailed address, post code or whatsapp?
thanks . sir
Unfortunately the discount has expired, do we have a new one?
In the US the two standard wire gauges are SAE, used in cars, and AWG, used in everything else. I have never seen or heard of a #7 AWG or SAE cable. Although many cheap makers use CCA, copper clad aluminum, instead of copper. CCA can't handle the same ampacity.
I heard from someone else that usually only the even numbers of AWG are being used?
I like your Krahn more, than the Batteries. Have same Problem with the batteries and may order them for nearly two hundred euros.
nice battery to big for me but i like you cut the power of not only theBMS
It's a great battery but in this decade, i wish they would make the RS-232 a USB-A rather than RJ-45.
For the M2M connections of the CAN and RS-485, that's totally understandable because it will be talking a common language, but I see the RS-232 being for computer communication, so it should probably use a modern interface.
On the Pro version it would be nice to have Ethernet with SNMP and MQTT for monitoring.
Great suggestions. I'm sure Jaki is reading here and put this on their list.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia action
My gobelpower battery looks the same configuration
The Gobel battery has an additional fuse, I believe
You should do a video on just communication cables ...i.e. seplos battery to seplos battery rs485 (is it an standard Ethernet cable)
rs485 to mpp inverter is it a specially wired cable or just Ethernet..
rs485 bms to computer is it a special cable or ethenet..
Same goes for can comms..
I have made a few videos about CAN and RS485, Venus OS, JK, Daly and JBD BMS already. The communication between different BMS is rather difficult/impossible if they are not from the same manufacturer.
We have also the LV6548 inverter, each inverter come with ready made RJ45 cable to communication with battery
I see a engine lift. Nice!
why do we (Americans) call them "Cherry Pickers"???
No, it's not. It's a crane!!!!!
Can you explain why there is a T-shirt kind of protection at 8'30" ? What is dangerous at that moment ?
Hi Andy, what about LTO type batterys since they claim to have more cycle life ,isnt this the way to go if you also want to charge a EV ?
Best Regards Roland
How is 51.2V 52.77% SOC ? That's for 14s NMC. For 16S LFP that's ~17% SOC.
Thanks Andy for another video with alternate options. Given all the rack/wall mounted style batteries available now would you still build the diy battery shelf?
Yes, I would. That is my hobby and I like solving little problems and learning from my previous built. I would do it differently now though. The shelf is pretty much designed and build for these three rows of batteries. Now, I want to expand... the design makes it very difficult though. Oh, well, I'll figure it out...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia looking at the price from qso it is very tempting to get batteries and make my own shelf. Good idea to have expandability. I have a selectronic inverter but running second hand ups lead acid but looking to lithiums. Thanks for all the work.
@@gibo1971 Selectronic inverters are great. My sparky wanted to upgrade my system with one or two. Just does not integrate well with my Victron gear.
do you have link to the CRANE?
Hi Andy, Would you still recommend this battery for a cost effective solution for an Off-Grid solution? or have you come over a cheaper/better option in your opinion? what do you think of these compared to the Green Bank battery? Thanks Rob.
Andy I was wondering what you observed with the two batteries together and how the bms coordinate to keep close to the same voltage by adjusting some current ( I think that is the Smart part of bms ?) Too bad you couldnt get an off the shelf battery to see how balanced those cells are .
I'll show this in one of the next videos. Both batteries have a current limiter which will kick in if the current goes larger than overcurrent protection. It limits the current to 20A then. More to come...
Hi andy, what your thoughts on REPT Cells? I can get 280ah certified A grade cells for $88 USD
I tested them here on the channel. Forget about certified...
Rept Certified Cell test: ua-cam.com/video/bYJ1s_GF0po/v-deo.html
Certified cells: ua-cam.com/video/9w85BHpakwM/v-deo.html
HI Andy, Am a local from Ipswich and need a repair for epever 4420AN CHARGER that I have shorted out by not disconnecting properly. Hope you know someone that can help. Really enjoy your EU jolly sense of humour. Thanks Noel
Hello Noel. Thanks for your comment. I would have no idea who can fix such a controller. I personally would look into forums if someone had the same issue and also contact Epever directly and ask for advice. It might be as simple as replacing a MOSFET...
the "crane" is a cherry picker a simple engine hoist
NOOOOOOOOO! It's a battery crane!
@@OffGridGarageAustralia yes yes a electrolyte lifter
the rating is same like cells I have been receiving from dorcan all tested 236 to 243ah.
Great, that's how it should be!
I would love to see a video of testing this pace bms all one and if the seplos Bluetooth display would work with this unit
Maby I am not reading throughly but I do not see the link for that cell QR scanner😅
Keep up the great work
What port Seplos Bluetooth display connected, RS485/RS232?
@@powerwall I have not personally used any seplos bms but our friend here has a awesome video on that display
Bluetooth is not a separate module in the Seplos, it is integrated in the display or in the BMS PCB, depending on the version of BMS.
I highly doubt, just connected a different screen will enable BT in the Pace BMS. There is more to it.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia oh okayy good to knoww
@@tiaan1587 thanks
I have just installed 2 of these with the help of a friend who is a solar installer and both batteries keep tripping a Short Circuit Protection alarm when any load gets connected to them. Do I need to use a start up resistor to pre charge ? Thanks
I would prefer the table lift. That engine hoist sits in the way all the time !
BTW Seplos warranty is ZERO !!!
The table lift has actually a larger footprint as the crane. I would probably have the table full with crap all the time when I need it 😄
But, yeah, both have their pros and cons...
Those are nice but ROI for me isn't there at that price point just because I need about 90KWH for hot summers in the southwest to make it worthwhile. The ROI might work if I build my own bank out of cells purchased from China.
Please, can you test the new seplos BMS 3.0?
Yes, coming up soon. The Seplos Polo battery with BMS 3.0.
1:48 first mistake - how do you want to get your lifting stripes out and mayby later some underneath ??? I allways would put to wooden bars underneath
I do the same, at least under on corner so it sits on an angle and gives me room to get them in our out.
How do you think, I got the robes in when it was still in the box 😉
Would love to know the Wh per dollar this battery is and how it compares to DIY batteries. Is still worth doing your own?
DIY is still cheaper by 25% roughly, but some people have not the ability to put this all together themselves. That's why I look into other options as well from time to time.
@@margarita8442 Yes, Andy helped to provide with 8% discount
Hallo 😊👍super
Hi 👋
Hallo, Spain?
@@powerwall Hallo bin begeistert gutes Video 👍
Andy what type of app do you use to calculate the amp rating of the gage wire.
I use this website here: www.jcalc.net/
👍👍
That battery is freakin awesome. Id like 4 please lol... until i saw those tiny cables. Wow.. why not use big cables??? Surely it wouldnt cost them a couple bucks more
used 2*4AWG for each side for mass production.
Matt keep watching the video. It's all explained... they have only used thee cables for the first battery I got... all other have now 2x 4AWG👍
Do jaki and seplos play well together?
We will test soon!
@OffGridGarageAustralia I really like how you experiment in the garage, lots of educated guesses along with thought out processes.
@@todamnbad thanks a lot. I want to know answers to all these questions myself, so would have done the testing anyway. Why not sharing it on UA-cam for everyone to learn and enjoy. I love it, still so much to learn and explore.
@@todamnbad agree, it is very informative
G'day buddy. I watched a video you made on a battery that was 48 v and had a step down 12 v . Darned if I can find it, can you guide me
I have a 12V step down buck converter running in my battery shelf. It is connected to the main 48V battery through a breaker.
ua-cam.com/video/uzt9x0m21ug/v-deo.html
Hi Andy. Where can I get that Pace computer software please?
You can download it on the Jakiper website, I believe:
www.opsolarbattery.com/download-center
If not let me know and I'll add it to my website.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Thanks Andy.
@@CliveTrezona Have you got, if you want, we can send you by email.
@@powerwall Yes I managed to download it. Thanks guys.
Does it come with brackets to support the rear of the case while it's in a rack? That's a lot of weight to hold just at the front of a rack!
I think it will sit on rails in a server rack. Jaki has got one on their website and it looks like it has support on both sites.
www.opsolarbattery.com/product-page/server-rack-battery-rack
Has rack system
Sorry Andy is not a crain is technically an hoist
Ah, come on! That crane is amazing and a lot of fun!
It can be called anything, but for andy, it is crane.
😀
It’s not daisy chaining, you put them parallel.
You're right.
That's terrible user interface - if the group is not ticked then the labels of the check boxes should be greyed for example.
I agree, it's not the best way of how the app operates. And it's different to how other apps works, so that confused me...
I'm not sure I can get used to the non diy og garage. Will prowse have up diy years ago to do server rack
I just show alternatives for viewers who are not able to build their own battery. The testing I'm doing goes also far beyond what Will is doing on his channel. This here won't turn into a battery sale garage.
More DIY on the way...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia thanks! I really enjoy watching
Here is more technical, rather than open box test.
I couldn’t tell, are there isolators/spacers between the cells?
yes.
Yes, same as in the small Jaki battery. I forgot to show this in the video.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Out of interest are there isolators between the top of the cells and the steel channel used to arrange the balance leads or is the insulation limited to the black capping of the cells - if it is limited to the existing black topping i would be concerned about suitability in high vibration environments e.g. RV / caravans / cars ?
19" rack mount
correct, standard size, residential & commercial both fit
Intend to install 48 lifepo4 batteries in three raws for 48v system
Do I need A separate bms for every 16 batteries?
Do you put three batteries in parallel and 16 of these packs in series? Would be one battery with one BMS.
Do you have three separate rows of 16 batteries in series and you parallel these rows? That would mean 3 separate batteries and each needs its own BMS.
The second method, although more effort and more expensive, is the preferred way because you will have all cells monitored individually. It is safer to do it that way. It also provides redundancy if one pack fails, two are still working.
Suggest ready made
Here, at least in my part of the U.S. we call those "cherry pickers" (engine lift)
heard about that.
Wouldn't be much use for picking the cherries from my tree :D
@@chrisroyle4813 Land lord.
😎
6 AWG is definitely too small for a 200A BMS, even with 200C insulation.
Yep, as explained in the video.
Mass productiong is used 2*4AWG.
@@powerwall glad to hear
Do they develop the software or is it a 3rd party?
If they do - a suggestion to make to them is to "grey out" (instead of standard black) any settings that are unticked. So you can easily see by viewing the screen which groups are on or off and avoid having the issue you were trying to work out with them.
Should be a very simple software fix if they are the creators of the software.
It's a Pace BMS, so they also make the software, I believe.
At $5K AUD for one of these batteries does it give happy endings as well?
Yes, it does!
@@OffGridGarageAustralia I didnt see a vacuum hose sticking out the side of it 🙂 Im looking forward to the Gobel Power review when it comes in 🙂
@@grahampahl7100 happy vacuum hose.... Graham... where does this go to?😂😂😂
@@OffGridGarageAustralia to your manhood 🙂
Or your wallet, at $5K its a bit of a rip.
Open it from the bottom, then turn it over then just pull the box off, no crane needed
Hey Andy, was ist das für eine App, die Dir die Kabelquerschnitte von AWG in mm umrechnet?
I use the website here: www.jcalc.net/
Tennessee, we call that a cherry picker.
OMG I would love to get a battery like that but i'm not from Australia so is it possible for them to ship to where im from.
USA, CANADA, AUSTRALIA
@@powerwall USA
@@ryancaesar5547 in stock, limited quantity.
@@powerwall Are you able to supply Nigeria, Africa?
@@uchedike4708 yes. What is your contact info?
Please stop calling it when it's not it is not a crane is called an engine hoist
Portable Mini-Hydraulic Lifting Device😁
Just wait...
30:20 honestly - for the health and lifetimecycles of such a battery, it would be not really helpful to run such a battery system als you did going down to ~0%
The battery has been operated within its specifications. It can handle 3500+ cycles with 100% DoD @ 1C. Running it down to almost 0% does not harm the longevity of a battery.
Is it too heavy you are to weak 😂
Looking forward to lift my 40kg self casted solarbalast clones onto my garage - 21 pieces 😱
💙👊😎
🐸🐸🐸
3000 dollars for 230ah, no thanks.
But it's 230ah at 48volts, you are not getting 11kwh anywhere else for any better price
$5000 lol.. yeah nah...
AUD, and there's 8% off code
@@powerwall as my profile pic is clearly australia, its obvious i know that, you on the other hand didnt understand what im saying or notice the point i was making at all.. which makes it clear to any potential customer, that not only are you quite unintelligent, but you are a rip off merchant who is only going to be able to prey on elderly people who dont realise how garbage your 4x overpriced product is... you realise your about to go broke right? And stop replying to everyone in the comments, no one is going to buy one of you, commenting on every post just shows you are desperate and your only tactics are the same as 3rd world spammers who spam popular channels to get their scam noticed, you look like this... and no, there is not 8% off, you have lowered it by 8% because your crappy overpriced product cant sell..