I think its is worthy mentioning the Transfer Case control unit, which is located under the drive's seat. I had the same symptoms you mentioned, and all that needed to be replaced was this $200+/- unit. I DID NOT HAVE TO REPLACE THE TRANSFER CASE!!! Sometimes these control units go bad because water gets inside, but mine was perfectly clean and dry, yet it was the cause of months worth of investigation and unneeded work to be done - including opening the transfer case cover to investigate its condition, changing the small motor that is attached to the side of the transfer case and the position sensor. Guys, before you listen to JEEP mechanics (or any mechanics) and change things that cost $1000k or more, please look into the smaller and cheaper causes of the problem.
not even the TCM ,which is a "slave " unit , the console selector switch ! have a 2011 JGC and at 120k km had the "transmission service reqd" light show up , replaced the transfer case , 1 month later same problem , random comment on JGC Forum mentioned switch , changed same , problem disappeared , car now has 225k km and is faultless , blaming tyres is a wild guess at fault explanation
I had the transfer case go out on my 2012 JGC. I never had miss matched tires on this vehicle. You can’t always blame the costumers. The car companies sometimes need to own up to to the inadequacy.
@@user-tb7rn1il3q if taking care of quadra drive is the absolute king off-road in the SUV market, especially luxury SUVs. You're crazy if you don't think you should maintain something that's premium. When you have wear items in the drivetrain. The debris gets into the fluids. Of course you need to change the fluid out. On a motorcycle you have to stay particular about your oil change too because of the wet clutch. If you want true 4x4 whether it be vehicle can literally send power to anyone. Wheel quadra drive 2 is the only system that does it right now. My only complaint is I can't get it with a hemi on the new Jeep Grand Cherokee. Most of the time it is the customer that screws it up by either power launching the vehicle or trying to do burnouts or not. Even keeping the tires inflated to the proper pressures and waiting for the vehicle to tell them that the tires deflated. Because the system will try the compensate for the ones higher that's low and slip the clutch and you'll burn it out either in the rear axle or the transfer case. The front axle uses the brakes to transfer the power from side to side on the axle. It's really a $20 maintenance item. Valvoline ATF plus 4. 2 quarts it's like $9 a quart. Plus thread sealant... And I added tad bit of archoil To be completely honest though, Jeep could have done better because they could have put dielectric grease in the terminals on several of my Chrysler vehicles. I've noticed that components that are exposed to moisture are not properly insulated for the moisture that they're going to experience. And the Jeep the clear coat can crack on the rims and you'll get really slow leaks. There is a fluid you can add to the rims. It's not fix a flat. It's that's only a temporary fix. There's one that has aramid fibers. That's a permanent fix. Tire ject bead sealant.
Having uneven tire pressure can cause unnecessary wear on drivetrain parts on AWD vehicles too.Try to keep the tires within about 2 psi of eachother. And its not just mismatched tires. If you get a flat tire on an AWD vehicle,and it can't be repaired. You'll have to replace all 4. This happened to my parents Subaru. And holy smokes, boy did they squeeze that Hemi engine in there. That definitely does not look fun to work on.
Wow, that's interesting to know. My brother had one of these Cherokees and never had an issue with it...but did complain one day about having to buy 4 new tires after a blowout. I didn't ask him why....but see that, some people do follow the suggestions...and proves the point. He put over 150k miles on his before selling, no issues other than usual maintenance.
@@thetechlibrarian Sorry - was responding specifically to a particular comment. Yes - any xfer case that is "full time" will want to see stable geometry on both sides of the case.
One of my local tire shops has a tire shaving machine so that if you have to get one or 2 new tires and your others have adequate life they will shaving the new one(s) down to match exactly. This applies to pretty much all AWD vehicles. Subaru, Toyota etc all require your tires be within a couple tenths of each other
That’s retarded…Buy 2 new tires just to have them shave down to match one lol that’s straight idiocy! Why not just buy four brand new tires and get an extra 50,000 miles out of them. It’s people like you they make money off of…. Read What you’re saying lol let me pay Toyota to make my new tires used tires…. Dum as they cum
I'm not positive, but those come with viscous coupling, I think, to connect the front and rear driveshafts, not the clutch-driven one in these new ones. I imagine the tradeoff is efficiency vs longevity.
I sold a transfer case to a shop back when I was a commercial specialist for a parts store. The core unit that we got back from that dodge journey had a crack in the case. Three of the tires were almost bald, and the 4th had like 1000 miles on it.
Had an 2002 Ford Explorer do the same thing. Too sensitive electronics if you ask me. Thanks for taking time to shake hands and show us around the shop yesterday. You’re a humble gentleman David,
Thank you, that was a great and powerful explanation of why you need to buy all 4 tires when you get a flat on an AWD vehicle. I did not know this could happen!
Cheap buisness owners in trucks only throwing two abck tires on...and they're either worse than the fronts, or brand new and the fronts are roasted. Everything gets eaten up
It depends on the awd system. (If there is an open center diff and everythign else is by brakes you won't have a problem) You also can have the same thing with LSDs in RWD and FWD cars. I remember when i had a flat (RWD car), and the mechanic, before ordering 1 new rear went around to ahve a look at the tire on the other side. I had bought the tires 2 months before, so pretty much no difference. And before someone asks: The tires i have/had on the car are not legal to be repaired. They are rated for 300kph+ and the car is too. (might be different in other parts of the world, but here this is how it is)
@@The_Touring_Jedi Sorry, i am not the right person for that. I couldn't give you any more advise the Wizard includes in this video. I am very interested in the general working principles of awd systems or things like LSDs, hence my comment, but for what you need, you are more likely to get usefull info or tips from a trusted experienced mechanic (that could check it or it's service history for you) or a maybe a dedicated Jeep forum.
Same way on a Subaru if you don’t replace all four tires you’re going to have Transmission problems because Subaru has transfer case and the transmission as one unit
mismatched tires force the differential/transfer case/transmission units to work harder than normal to match wheel speeds. this causes the lubricating fluids/wear materials to break down much faster than normal. and then premature failure.
As long as you can track down the exact same tire (including load range, speed rating, etc.) you can have the new tire shaved down to match, saves you a bundle if your tires still have some meat on them and aren't ready for replacement yet--Subaru allows up to 2/32" of wear difference between the tires but when we do the shaving it's always to make a perfectly matched set.
Had this issue on a 15 WK2 Grand Cherokee at something like 55 or 65k. Transfer case control unit went haywire, forced the transfer case to constantly engage and disengage resulting in the unit burning itself up. I highly recommend anyone experiencing this type of issue to contact FCA warranty support as they are well aware of the issue and split the repair bill (although they should have covered more) under ‘warranty’ just outside of specified mileage.
I definitely appreciate all the information on the transfer case! My sister's jeep has the same problem. As I've never had to work on one before. Came here to do homework while scoping out what was needed for this job. You helped out a lot with that. Thank you for going above and beyond on that. That being said, and this is just my humble opinion, everyone's got one. Maybe next time just start with the topic at hand. I only say this because I almost clicked off the video and wouldve missed out on very valuable information concerning the transfer case. I'd hate for others to lose out on this information simply because of the first 5-10 min of the video with the covering of the exterior and interior features of the specific vehicle you were showcasing the work on. Just kind of felt like filler content and out of place with the real reason most are even watching the video for in the first place. Came for information on jeep transfer cases not the different model options. Not being rude at all, just a simple feed back suggestion from one tiny member of your audience. Other than that, I applaud your channel and the knowledge you have with this trade. Grew up in 3rd generation garage, dad and grandad were mechanics. So I'm all too familiar with how many people claim to be one when in all honesty they legally shouldn't be allowed to fill a gas tank. It's nice coming across a channel that is actually very knowledgeable. Keep up the good work!
My friend has 2014 overland overland quadra-trac 2 hemi motor for like I have like come on similar symptoms that he's describing about it feeling ideas kicking in the four-wheel-drive clicking noise underneath the vehicle he took the dealer first he also needed a new transfer case$7,000! He has only 60,000 mechanical type I told him to bring it on down and we would scan it and take a look at it did a little research on the Jeep forum many folks on there but turned out to be the transmission control unit under the front seat failed $275 bucks, and the transfer case shifter motor gear had broke 175 bucks so $450 sound a lot better $7,000 so we fixed! 2 years later still running driving fine no lights no codes!
I also heard this mechanic said that the engine scan indicated the codes indicated clutch addition that's what the dealer tried to say about my friends transfer case indicated clutch failure! But that code was being thrown because the transfer case shift motor therefore couldn't shift it out of 4-wheel drive but I am sure that if my friend would have continued to drive it more than he did I'm sure this mechanics right it would have burned the transfer case up
That's the definition of progress. To make something more expensive, complicated and prone to failing without giving you any practical benefit other than not having to press a button.
@@MaddJakd they work fine except they add $1k+ onto the price of the car, they are less secure, make the ignition system more complicated, the fobs go through batteries quickly and if you lose the fob they are very expensive up replace. But yeah I guess it's convenient for entry and you don't have to take your key out of your pocket or purse or have to listen to your keys jingle as you drive over bumpy roads
Thank you for discussing tire wear and its impact on transfer cased and 4wd components. I can't tell you how many times I had to explain that to people that just wanted to pay for 1 tire.
Wow It's my first 4x4 jeep thank goodness I haven't had the need to replace tires but going forward ill do all 4 each time. rather spend 1k on tires then 3-6k on a transfer case lol.
PTU (power transfer unit) My 2020 Jeep Cherokee was literally jerking 2 feet to the left then 2 feet to the right while driving and then my service 4WD light on dash came on. This issue was a slow process over a couple months. Took it into the dealer 3 difference times between 13,000 miles and 61,000 miles because of the jerking while driving. Finally the service 4WD was on the 3rd time. After they checked it the 3rd time find out the PTU is bad from factory and when I asked how often jeeps are getting fixed for this issue he looked it up and said it’s about 712 replacements a week for this part going bad and that they are doing a goodwill warranty on this part. Personally with this many a week coming in with issues in the USA don’t see why they don’t just do a recall and fix issues because this is going to cause people accidents. It was pretty scary to be jerked 2 feet left and 2 feet right while driving!
Buddy of mine operates several 60's 6x6 army trucks. His yard is filled with mounted tires with the circumference written on them. When he needs to replace a tire, sometimes he has to remove all 4 rears to make up a set of the proper size. He uses the smallest tires on the front because of a sprag that lets the rear tires overrun the fronts. He says if the fronts are larger, they try to pull the entire truck along. He says when the sizes are right, the truck rolls along much more free.
That open space where the spare is 'missing' is used for the DEF tank on diesel models. The spare tire is under the floor inside the vehicle. On the Durango which shares a platform with the Grand Cherokee it does have the spare there to allow for the floor to be flat for the third row of seats.
I had a 2011 Grand Cherokee with the 5.7 that had MDS. Cam lifter seized at 128k miles and messed up the camshaft. I sold it broken because I was tired of repairs and it was half the value of the Jeep to fix the lifter and cam.
@@BubblesTheCat1 you mean Toyota that had to recall and replace over 100,000 engines in 2020 due to a serious manufacturing flaw that can cause the engine to blow up and cause a fire. Go away, Sheep
It's pretty much the case for all awd vehicles on the market, even Toyota. Gotta replace all tires at the same time or you risk damaging awd components.
You drive your jeep to the grocery store spotless all around, to the soccer field, to the office - never been off-road but breaks down because of tires? Such a good car!
its long been known that awd and 4wd vehicles need four matching tires. customers and even managers at shops say bullshit but its not and never has been.
So, I'm glad that the Car Wizard covered this, because I bought a '18 GC a few months ago from a reputable online vendor where they had replaced just the rear tires. Annoyingly, the owner's manual states you can safely do this - it states you just have to replace both on the same axle. Had I seen this beforehand, I would've negotiated for replacement tires all the way around, Thankfully, I caught this video soon enough that I was able to replace the mismatched front tires with the same exact model in the same exact size, and avoided having to shave tires to match the tread depth. I'm hoping that my transfer case stays happy for awhile and that I didn't drive on the mismatched set long enough to cause problems. But I wish I had this information sooner. It's not enough to just match the tire size - it has to be the SAME EXACT brand, model, AND size. The diameter of the tire can very greatly between different brands and models despite reporting the same tire size, and of course different tires wear at different rates. Even if you started with brand new tires, but different brands/models on each axle, there can be enough of a mismatch in diameter that causes the clutches to burn up. The front tires on mine (prior to replacement) were a full 1/2" shorter in diameter despite the sidewall stating they were the same size.
My brother in law had a slightly older one of these beauties. Lovely design and drive with a gorgeous interior, but he put a heck of a lot of miles on it for his business which often involved towing quite heavy stuff. When it finally started to complain in earnest, this is EXACTLY what had gone wrong. So he got rid of it and bought a Range Rover. Out of the frying pan...
Thanks Wizard. This is great information. I have a 2012 with 156,000 miles on it. I've been really happy with it since new and want to keep it going. I have the MOPAR unlimited mileage warranty but stuff like this keeps me up at night. I try really hard to maintain it and avoid problems.
If memory serves, going back into the 70ies or 80ies , the Jeep "Quadra-Track " system also required that all 4 tire dimensions had to be the same, or the system would destroy itself. Great videos !
My daughters went our right after they purchased it . They got it used at a dealer under warrenty, they had to replace it. It's been back to the shop every 3 months. I would not buy one, ever.
I kept a huge amount of spare tyres for my old BMW Z3 2.8ltr, was blowing side walls on my dirt driveway, had to change both sides at once, not all 4, so I just started keeping the undamaged as a spare, so sometimes I didn't need to buy a new one, also kept buckling rear rims on the inside lip, finally just changed the rim's, Rj in Oz
Given that speed sensors are at work sending data from all wheels, you might think some sort of comparator circuit would be included to set off an alarm on such an expensive time bomb. Full time AWD systems on other brands can also give out for the same reason or even worse, buying two tires and somebody manages to fit the wrong tire size to your vehicle.
Not even a circuit, the computer just needs to look at the telemetry and throw a "critical service needed" message and code if any wheel rotation rates are more than off. Really nanny ecus could put it in limp mode until reset.
yeah there is no reason the programming couldn't have been written to notice when a single half-shaft/axle is ALWAYS rotating precisely some ratio slower or faster than the others. Instead they only half-committed to a design and made it contingent on the 4 tires having the exact same circumference with no tolerance.
@@Lon1001 Agreed. You would think the system could be programmed to "learn" any continuous tyre diameter differences, eg measured at speed on a presumably open road, and then factor in those differences when looking for wheel slippage.
Hah, mine had faulty connector to TC shift motor so dealer had to replace the connector and the motor. I guess manufacturing problem? Otherwise I love WK2. They are awesome comfy highway cruisers that do very well for light offroading or camping.
I'm on my fourth GC: 2011 Overland and 2014, 2017, 2020 Summits. All bought new, and with the 5.7 Hemi. All good/great vehicles. The 2011 was a bit 'buggy' as far as the electronics go, but the others were all better and better. I feel for the money, it's hard to beat the 'bang for the buck' the Jeep GC delivers. Very interesting about the tire size difference causing failure. I'll keep that in mind, as I plan on keeping the 2020 for more than three years. I'm wondering if you should rotate the tire more often???
Thanks for the video Car Wizard! Three years later, 2012 Grand Cherokee Overland, Hemi, approx. 85,000 miles. Transfer case and control module. $4700. The last time I did tires I had done all 4, same model, same size. No warning from the EVIC. No "Serv 4WD" message. The way I knew something was wrong was when making a turn, it felt like someone was slamming on the brakes. I was told that the Hemi is too strong for the T-case and ends up chewing them up. Interesting note. Once the control module was replaced, I get instructions on how to set the t-case into 4 low on the EVIC when starting the vehicle. Never had that before the control unit was swapped. Just thought I'd share!
Thanks for the varied vehicles you highlight and you easy presentation style. Mrs. Wizard is a great addition and she sure is kept busy. Continued success in all you both attempt.
You should mention that tire shaving services are available if you need to replace one tire well before the rest need replacing. Also proper rotation of the tires is important so all 4 wear evenly. You need not necessarily replace all 4 tires.
I think that is a last resort option only as your tire traction is critical for acceleration, turning and stopping. Maybe consider a FWD car if buying 4 tires at once is a problem.
@@LarsonChristopher Tire shaving makes the new tire the same size as the other three. It doesn't have anything to do with the things you mentioned. Obviously if the other three are unsafe you wouldn't shave a new tire to match the unsafe 3 tires. You just buy 4 tires. That's what we've done for years, just get 4 new tires.
That is because Toyota added RWD lock out on those (so you can drive with mismatched tyre for a while if you wanted to). This Jeep doesn't have that...
My son's gf sister bought a 2019 Jeep Cherokee and I specifically told her not to. She said life was too short not to make mistakes and knew the Jeep wasn't very good and also got a bad deal on financing. So far she's had to get the engine worked on
@@JohnSmith-uy2jg yep. She wanted the Jeep because she wanted a Wrangler, but all the different packages confused her and the Cherokee was in this cool orange color. They guy threw some numbers at her, she put 40% down on it, financed the rest amd within 4 months, the engine was surging bad. They told her it was a bad 'plug'. Then that didn't fix it, and said it was the throttle position sensor. She knows nothing about cars and I tried telling her they were full of crap, but it has a year left on the warranty and they are fixing it for 'Free', even though she paid a $75 service fee. That's not free. But whatever. Some people you can't tell anything to at all.
Thanks guy. A breath of fresh air to get straight answers that's clear like this. I like how you gave it straight. Some mechanic wouldn't say a word just to have a customer come back 😂. Thanks 👍🏽
Thanks for listing the Jeep's transfer case strongpoints and what it is going to cost you to maintain that level of mechanical perfection just for that transmission.
@@SkylineFTW97 I'm not saying you shouldn't do it. I'm saying you shouldn't have to. Having to replacing 3 good tires because the fourth blew out is appalling.
@@Kewrock I agree. I don't think 99% of people benefit from having AWD. I think it's a waste. More points of failure from improper maintenance, reduced gas mileage, it's extra resources down the drain because people are scared of driving in a light snowdrift or a rainstorm, which you by no means need AWD for. I actively encourage people to avoid getting it whenever possible.
Well if I'm not mistaken this particular type of transfer case allows the car to be like an all-wheel drive vehicle and in any all-wheel drive vehicle if you have different tire sizes or mismatching tires on the car it can cause the burnout of the transfer case so that doesn't just apply to Chrysler products that's any all-wheel drive car.
@@dodgeplow Except every decent tire shop will tell a Subaru owner they need to replace all 4 tires because it is a universal requirement for every Subaru sold in the last 30 years or so. The real issue here is it only applies to Jeep models with this particular 4WD system. You have to really know your stuff to realize which trim levels this applies to, etc.
taking the Wheel Mud covers out of thw wheel well you have complete access to the Exhaust bolts. Much easier to grind, drill and retap the broken heat shields top bolt combo.
Every time I see these videos, I am more pleased than ever to continue driving my 95 Jeep GC with Command-Trac. I know, I know. They didn't have the most robust T cases or transmissions either, but with regular maintenence, they are as good as anything else. as long as the driver understands the duty rating, and does not abuse it.
Apart the fact that Jeep wasn't FCA in 2013... They got it on 12 ottobre 2014 and still models coming out from there have been "pure Chrysler" for years (it doesn't take 1 month to go from design to test to mass produce a vehicle). Now that you've showed your ignorance, you can put back on your donkey hat.
Good to know. I own a 2014 JGC Overland. Owned since 2015 with 28k miles. Just turned over 121k. The only issues I have had in almost 100k miles is the vapor sensor assembly that the Chrysler mechanics didn’t want to cover under warranty but as soon as it was out of warranty I took to my friends garage he took off the engine cover did a smoke check and within seconds he saw the issue and ordered the parts. It was fixed within 3 minutes the next day… I’ll never go to another Chrysler garage again.
@vadim Andr. it was a small plastic connector in line of the vapor system that was cracked. He replaced the plastic elbow that was cracked, hooked up both hoses tk the piece and I never had another issue with it. Sadly I sold that Jeep 3 months ago. It was an amazing vehicle for me. It had 159k miles at the time I sold it. Good luck with yours!
@vadim Andr. I'm not sure exactly. It's been years since I dealt with that issue. It was I line with the vaporizer. (That is what my mechanic friend told me) he had it fixed extremely quickly once he had the part.
I learned while working in the tire shop not only do transfer cases love it when the vehicle has all four of the same tire, they also love when directional tires are mounted in the correct direction as well.
This is why I'd never buy a used car with AWD, unless the owner can show me receipts that all four tires were replaced at the same time, every time with brand new tires. People talk about how reliable Subarus are, but I have seen so many with driveteain issues caused by neglect. I see more drivetrain issues than the notorious headgasket issues on Subarus. This rule applies to any AWD vehicle.
Would a dash light indicator be a solve? I mean something to let the driver know the system is active… A light constantly going on and off might make a person wonder
Thanks for this video. I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee and will always replace tires in full sets after this. You might also want to do a video about the failing rocker arms/lifters/lash adjusters on the Chrysler Pentastar V6 engines used in these Jeep’s, as well as in millions of other Mopars.
That was so informative. My nephew bought a used Grand Cherokee within weeks of using it had already started having to replace the transfer case. Thanks for the info.
Tires. Premature PTU failure on Fords can partially be attributed to tires with uneven wear. It's NOT advised to replace one or two tires at a time, it's recommended to change all four.
I had to replace rear axle after just 80k miles / 6 years, and transfer case this winter - 16 years, on my 2005. I still love it and will never sell it.
@snsproduc Just do it.... Maybe you were very lucky and though the tires were mismatched the outside diameter was by luck...the same. The trans doesn't care about the brand name or tread pattern...only the outside diameter......
Not when there is a 1 new tire that has significantly better traction than the rest of the 3 old tires. It is also a little bigger in diameter due to the rest of the 3 tires are worn. Of course the front tires will wear faster because the vehicle will always shift weight to the front during braking. But at least, the tires are worn evenly as a pair of front and rear.
Thank you car wizard, I just picked up a 2023 grand Jeep Cherokee, Quadra Trac 1 - I’m assuming this is something I should also be aware of with my tire wear and just very good tire rotation as I have 17’s on here. So far I love it. I’m coming from Front Wheel Dr., Honda’s for the past 13 years. I will tell you the new five link suspension is incredible. I am floating on the ground it’s beautiful.
You would think in the age of electronics and computer controls that the vehicle with know it had different size tires for they were the same and be able to compensate for that
why would a manufacturer incorporate an expensive and non trivial technology (adding an entire system) into a vehicle when they could simply state "you need four matching tires at all times or damage to driveline will ensue"
@@kingoftaurus the abs system does not possess the technology to accurately know what tires are on the car and change the behavior of the powertrain to compensate. how can abs detect the tread pattern of a tire? tread depth? abs relies primarily on wheel speed data. knowing how fast a wheel is spinning cant possibly give the data points needed for these calculations.
I had a 2010 Grand Cherokee limited with the QuadraDrive II. I put 3 (yes 3!) transfer cases in it before the Jeep dealer found the transfer case control module had a damaged circuit board that was causing the transfer case motor to constantly engage the clutches. Apparently that’s also a known issue.
This. The DTCM is a low cost, known failure item and cheap insurance against tearing up a new transfer case. I replace both the transfer case and the DTCM as a set when I perform this repair.
Thanks, first time I heard about the tires needing matching as one of issues for failures, good thing to look for while shopping for a used jeep. Chevy Astro vans with all wheel drive didn't like uneven tires and required the Smurf juice, otherwise the vehicle would shudder.
I run the same size tires and rotate them once a year. I check the tread depth with a gauge to make sure all 4 are wearing the same. One trick I use is running 2lbs less pressure in the rear tires (unless the Jeep is heavily loaded). It actually keeps the tires closer to the same height because the weight of the engine causes the tires in the front to be slightly shorter. Example: 37psi in the front tires and 35psi in the rear. It works, I promise. My last QD2 GC lasted 178k miles and was still going on the original transfer case when I sold it. My current one is at 191k miles and also has the original QD2 transfer case. They both had plenty of other problems though, and I do not recommend one unless you do your own repair work. They are great when everything is working, but will break you if you have to pay a mechanic to do all the little repairs that they will require. Mostly suspension stuff like ball joints, end links and control arms. Then there's diff bushings and drive shafts. Also engine sensors, alternators, and water pumps.
You're not changing the circumference of the tires. Just lowering the "look" of the rear. Have a leveling kit installed. Jeeps are almost as bad as GM trucks with the high rear end.
@@Dan_Bender Measure the center circumference of the tire at different pressures and I can promise you they get taller or shorter. 40lbs will be taller than 30lbs. The sidewall wont change much but the car rides mainly in the center portion of the tires. The bigger tires change more from pressure than smaller ones
This is so timely, I was thinking of buying one of these in the UK. One question, do the same sort of mechanical issues exist with the same year’s SRT8 model?
Yes, you will likely experience the exhaust bolt snapping issue, also transmission issues are common on this generation. I would stay away from all US made vehicles in the last 10 years.
The moral of this story is stay away from ALL Wheel Drive (especially Chrysler/Fiat products), purchase a 4x4 where you have to physically engage the other two wheels.
@@CrossingRover well that's nonsense since Toyota's and Honda's built in the US are very well made. This is a Chrysler issue not a country of origin issue. The Yanks can build great cars they just need the Japanese to show them how
I am not a mechanic, but why not to replace the frictions disks in the transfer case? They seems to be existing around $150? Does it need too many hours or special tools? (and I guess the provider of a new transfer case want old one back exactly to replace friction disks).
I'll never forget when I realized this and swore off Jeeps forever, for a vehicle said to be reliable, they sure do break a lot Granted I think that's more Chrysler infecting it, but even my old XJ and ZJ models broke a whole lot more than I would consider a reliable
Sounds like operator error, I owned 80s and 90s Jeeps never had a problem the last one I got rid of was a 1996 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo limited it had over 200,000 miles on it still ran strong!! Course it also had the 4.0 inline 6 cylinder in a which of course in cubic inch displacement is literally a 242 in line 6!
interesting and typical of Chrysler to do this! i went to Chrysler training center in Elk Grove Village, il. in the early 70's. after I completed the course, I vowed i would never work for the company as a mechanic or own one of their piles of junk! I'm 71 now and have never broken that vow! i have owned 2 pre Chrysler jeeps and loved both! also, the bone yards in my area usually had a section reserved for mopars that had caught fire because they didn't get rid of the burrs of metal on the interior of the dash and it would cut thru wires over time. you would also slice your hands up trying to work in those areas.
@@scootypooper - This has nothing to do with Chrysler and everything to do with AWD. Please show me a manufacturer who doesn't demand equal size tires on their AWD vehicles.
@@scootypooperChrysler cease to exist in 1998. Also hard to believe you were ever a good mechanic. For example I dislike GM as a brand but I have no issues admitting when they produce a good vehicle. FCA or Stallantis has produced some great vehicles in the past 10 years but hey if you are going to make judgements based of off 50 year old information and a complete different company than so be it. You a re getting to hung up on the name.
Sorry but I’ve had 5 Subarus since 1996 and I’ve never done this and not had any transmission problems on any of them. And I’ve replaced about 50 tires!
@@darcycuttlefish3981 ODD because Subaru themselves tell you to change all 4 tires and since I work as a mechanic I have seen tons of Subu's with transferase problems because the owners had mismatched tires.
Would it make a difference if the two new tires were the same brand, model, and size? Wouldn't different tire pressures do the same thing as new tires in the front or back?
Wow. Great video! I looked at a 2011 GC Overland today with the svc 4wd light on. 2 new tires in front 2 banana skins in the back! I did not buy it but told the guy I needed to do some research first. I’ll try for the lower price tomorrow and if he says no, then I’ll pass. Too bad. Was one of the nicest ones I’ve seen in months otherwise. Thanks for the video!
Very good information. I have one for years. If your a shade tree mechanic they are not extremely difficult to swap out. One of the most accessible parts on a vehicle these days.
My late -94 GC had the transfer case with a viscous coupling assisting the central differential. Even with same-size tires, it somehow had overheated the viscous coupling, maybe when off-roading, and as it overheats and sort of leaks the inner fluid to the transfer case oil, it sucks oil in it when it cools. Then it seems to turn even more viscous, and in parking halls the tires start to squeal. Then the TC is in permanent "almost locked 4 wheel drive"-mode... An amphetamine junkie stole it and totaled it, so I did not have to fix it. It also is like a negative lottery win here in Finland, as drug junkies are so rare species that cops know who to arrest when something spesific happens, so they just went to his place and arrested him telling his DNA was found in the Jeep. He confessed and was jailed. I then bought a H3. That is way better than the Jeep, off-road or anyplace. Almost as good as my -79 Blazer...
I had a 2011 and that car was a nightmare. Replaced 2 steering racks, countless air ride suspension components, tie rods, every control arm in the car. I must have been robbed 10k out of that money pit. I wouldn’t wish that car on my worst enemy
I can confirm that as I have a 2011. It's a sweet ride on the days that it's not giving me grief. The problem is, is that those days are few and far in between.
I mean every car will need new suspension after ~120k. Stuff works hard and wears out. Plan on it, do it yourself for a few hundred in parts, or buy new and don't worry about it. Don't buy anything with air ride. Sucks about the steering parts though.
What a great and informative video. The transfer case reminds me how the C5 traction system works. The computer knows the tires are 1" in diameter different from front to back. The transfer case uses the same logic except the 4 tires have to be exact. Thank you for the video!!! :)
How about if I choose never to use the 4 wheel drive, will that save my transfer csse? After 4 months since purchasing a 2013 Grand Cherokee 4x4 Overland all systems are a go.
Here’s another goody Jeep throws at you. Transmissions on Compass models is a closed system. Once it starts slipping, you can’t have it rebuilt. You have to buy a new one or a used one from a junk yard that may still be good. Fun times.
No thanks. My city and area of town is very hilly and it rains a lot here. I want AWD. Without it, my wheels would be constantly spinning half the year.
A lot of full size 4x4 pickups are including full time modes in many mid-high trim levels ("4A" in Ford, "4WD Auto" in Ram, "Auto" on the selector in GMs), so if you are using the auto mode it is likely not any different that this Grand Cherokee. I think most trucks use a clutch/slip system in the center diff/transfer case and when you switch from 4A to 4H it engages a mechanical lock. Some older auto 4wd systems used live axles and then engaged the hubs electronically but I doubt that system is used on any new vehicle these days because of the fuel economy. It's unfortunate that SUVs with full time AWD/4X4 hybrids don't usualy include a 2WD mode to completely disconnect the second set of wheels (especially on a RWD based system like the Grand Cherokee).
@@OMGWTFLOLSMH having options is always the best - I like that some pickups allow you to switch between all 4 modes (2wd, AWD, 4H, 4L) since in your case you could leave it in AWD mode, but on dry days you could put it in 2WD and not worry about wear and tear on the clutch pack plus save a little on fuel.
My wife had a jeep patriot she had some issues with tires the computer was confused when the tires were worn uneven its true you have to change all 4 tires even if it's not a 4X4. You give great advice
@@puckstopper25 Wrong, the 2011-2013 GC had an older style interior from the Daimler Mercedes ownership. After FIAT acquired them, the 2014+ got a brand new dash and upgraded interior. Not that any of this matters to you, because you know next to nothing about modern Jeeps.
I think its is worthy mentioning the Transfer Case control unit, which is located under the drive's seat. I had the same symptoms you mentioned, and all that needed to be replaced was this $200+/- unit. I DID NOT HAVE TO REPLACE THE TRANSFER CASE!!! Sometimes these control units go bad because water gets inside, but mine was perfectly clean and dry, yet it was the cause of months worth of investigation and unneeded work to be done - including opening the transfer case cover to investigate its condition, changing the small motor that is attached to the side of the transfer case and the position sensor. Guys, before you listen to JEEP mechanics (or any mechanics) and change things that cost $1000k or more, please look into the smaller and cheaper causes of the problem.
This is the post I was wondering about! The "Wild Card"!
do you have the part number?
Well then after you put in the new transfer case it still wouldn't work.
not even the TCM ,which is a "slave " unit , the console selector switch ! have a 2011 JGC and at 120k km had the "transmission service reqd" light show up , replaced the transfer case , 1 month later same problem , random comment on JGC Forum mentioned switch , changed same , problem disappeared , car now has 225k km and is faultless , blaming tyres is a wild guess at fault explanation
@@Delekham ?
Wizard is my favorite UA-cam mechanic. No fluff. No hyperbole. Just good information presented honestly and without bias.
True, but are there any how to car repair videos on the wizard's channel?!?!?
@@cutehumor I’ll take that over the drunk dummy over at the other place. U know who I’m talking bout.
@@Natethegreat200c Who? Certainly not Scotty Kilmer?
@@BubblesTheCat1 haha yes. Drunken Kilmer.
No fluff? Almost 9 minutes into the video before he states his opinion on why the transfer cases fail.
I had the transfer case go out on my 2012 JGC. I never had miss matched tires on this vehicle. You can’t always blame the costumers. The car companies sometimes need to own up to to the inadequacy.
But did you follow the 30k fluid change interval recommended? It’s a clutch pack transfer case so it needs clean fluid.
@@jamesonzip You shouldn’t need to change it. It’s a weak transfer case. These are POS vehicles.
@@user-tb7rn1il3q they literally give you the intervals.. what do you mean you shouldn't have to
@@user-tb7rn1il3q if taking care of quadra drive is the absolute king off-road in the SUV market, especially luxury SUVs. You're crazy if you don't think you should maintain something that's premium. When you have wear items in the drivetrain. The debris gets into the fluids. Of course you need to change the fluid out.
On a motorcycle you have to stay particular about your oil change too because of the wet clutch. If you want true 4x4 whether it be vehicle can literally send power to anyone. Wheel quadra drive 2 is the only system that does it right now.
My only complaint is I can't get it with a hemi on the new Jeep Grand Cherokee.
Most of the time it is the customer that screws it up by either power launching the vehicle or trying to do burnouts or not. Even keeping the tires inflated to the proper pressures and waiting for the vehicle to tell them that the tires deflated. Because the system will try the compensate for the ones higher that's low and slip the clutch and you'll burn it out either in the rear axle or the transfer case. The front axle uses the brakes to transfer the power from side to side on the axle. It's really a $20 maintenance item. Valvoline ATF plus 4. 2 quarts it's like $9 a quart. Plus thread sealant... And I added tad bit of archoil
To be completely honest though, Jeep could have done better because they could have put dielectric grease in the terminals on several of my Chrysler vehicles. I've noticed that components that are exposed to moisture are not properly insulated for the moisture that they're going to experience. And the Jeep the clear coat can crack on the rims and you'll get really slow leaks. There is a fluid you can add to the rims. It's not fix a flat. It's that's only a temporary fix. There's one that has aramid fibers. That's a permanent fix. Tire ject bead sealant.
Having uneven tire pressure can cause unnecessary wear on drivetrain parts on AWD vehicles too.Try to keep the tires within about
2 psi of eachother. And its not just mismatched tires. If you get a flat tire on an AWD vehicle,and it can't be repaired. You'll have to replace all 4. This happened to my parents Subaru. And holy smokes, boy did they squeeze that Hemi engine in there. That definitely does not look fun to work on.
Wow, that's interesting to know. My brother had one of these Cherokees and never had an issue with it...but did complain one day about having to buy 4 new tires after a blowout. I didn't ask him why....but see that, some people do follow the suggestions...and proves the point. He put over 150k miles on his before selling, no issues other than usual maintenance.
They are fairly solid if treated well. Great cars to drive to! :)
Subaru is the same - always 4 tyres at the same time - no exceptions ever. Don't change the tyre dimensions, no one-ups.. Don't change rims, etc...
@@tcpnetworks any full time awd is the same I believe
@@thetechlibrarian Sorry - was responding specifically to a particular comment. Yes - any xfer case that is "full time" will want to see stable geometry on both sides of the case.
@@tcpnetworks they do not want anything and cannot see anything, unless you have some transfer cases with AI.
One of my local tire shops has a tire shaving machine so that if you have to get one or 2 new tires and your others have adequate life they will shaving the new one(s) down to match exactly. This applies to pretty much all AWD vehicles. Subaru, Toyota etc all require your tires be within a couple tenths of each other
This is why you always buy 4 new tires. If one tire goes the rest aren’t far behind.
That’s retarded…Buy 2 new tires just to have them shave down to match one lol that’s straight idiocy! Why not just buy four brand new tires and get an extra 50,000 miles out of them. It’s people like you they make money off of…. Read What you’re saying lol let me pay Toyota to make my new tires used tires…. Dum as they cum
I need a haircut 😂😂
I left daddy doug talking about working quirks and features, to watch the wizard talk about failed quirks and features
THE LAFORZA???? same!!🤣🤣🤣🤣
I like how we're all calling him Daddy Doug because that name *fits*
I had already watched the Laforza vid by the time this was uploaded.
I see a VW Bug under a cover in the background. And that gorgeous Mazaratti. I'm sure that's broken big time. !!
Tbh, I was being honest. The weeeezards voice and tone and professionalism are all quirks and features
I'll just stick with a vehicle that requires manually engaging the transfer case. No need to automate everything.
Ok boomer
@@kenyonworthenii7389 well I mean from a reliability standpoint he ain't wrong...
Ok Boomer
With a manual transmission. Millennial antitheft device
@@Zzus321 Yeah because not a single millennial knows how to drive a manual!! Dipshit
Sold my ‘97 Grand Cherokee with a quadratrac
transfer case with 225,000 on all original powertrain. They don’t make them like they used to
I'm not positive, but those come with viscous coupling, I think, to connect the front and rear driveshafts, not the clutch-driven one in these new ones.
I imagine the tradeoff is efficiency vs longevity.
@@lanceislateagain yep you’re right. The wheel size still applies on these.
I sold a transfer case to a shop back when I was a commercial specialist for a parts store. The core unit that we got back from that dodge journey had a crack in the case. Three of the tires were almost bald, and the 4th had like 1000 miles on it.
Had an 2002 Ford Explorer do the same thing. Too sensitive electronics if you ask me.
Thanks for taking time to shake hands and show us around the shop yesterday. You’re a humble gentleman David,
Thank you, that was a great and powerful explanation of why you need to buy all 4 tires when you get a flat on an AWD vehicle. I did not know this could happen!
Cheap buisness owners in trucks only throwing two abck tires on...and they're either worse than the fronts, or brand new and the fronts are roasted. Everything gets eaten up
Should say in the owners manual, thing is not many read it. To be fair any tyre fitter should know this information and inform the owner accordingly.
It depends on the awd system. (If there is an open center diff and everythign else is by brakes you won't have a problem)
You also can have the same thing with LSDs in RWD and FWD cars. I remember when i had a flat (RWD car), and the mechanic, before ordering 1 new rear went around to ahve a look at the tire on the other side. I had bought the tires 2 months before, so pretty much no difference.
And before someone asks: The tires i have/had on the car are not legal to be repaired. They are rated for 300kph+ and the car is too. (might be different in other parts of the world, but here this is how it is)
@@nirfz I wann buy exact same like this in the video...how could I check that transfer case when buying? Any tips?
@@The_Touring_Jedi Sorry, i am not the right person for that.
I couldn't give you any more advise the Wizard includes in this video.
I am very interested in the general working principles of awd systems or things like LSDs, hence my comment, but for what you need, you are more likely to get usefull info or tips from a trusted experienced mechanic (that could check it or it's service history for you) or a maybe a dedicated Jeep forum.
Same way on a Subaru if you don’t replace all four tires you’re going to have Transmission problems because Subaru has transfer case and the transmission as one unit
Yep, my buddy had to replace all four tires on his Subaru after one needed to be replaced due to road debris.
mismatched tires force the differential/transfer case/transmission units to work harder than normal to match wheel speeds. this causes the lubricating fluids/wear materials to break down much faster than normal. and then premature failure.
You should always replace your tires if you have a symmetrical all wheel drive system
As long as you can track down the exact same tire (including load range, speed rating, etc.) you can have the new tire shaved down to match, saves you a bundle if your tires still have some meat on them and aren't ready for replacement yet--Subaru allows up to 2/32" of wear difference between the tires but when we do the shaving it's always to make a perfectly matched set.
@@406Steven Interesting
Had this issue on a 15 WK2 Grand Cherokee at something like 55 or 65k. Transfer case control unit went haywire, forced the transfer case to constantly engage and disengage resulting in the unit burning itself up. I highly recommend anyone experiencing this type of issue to contact FCA warranty support as they are well aware of the issue and split the repair bill (although they should have covered more) under ‘warranty’ just outside of specified mileage.
I definitely appreciate all the information on the transfer case! My sister's jeep has the same problem. As I've never had to work on one before. Came here to do homework while scoping out what was needed for this job. You helped out a lot with that. Thank you for going above and beyond on that. That being said, and this is just my humble opinion, everyone's got one. Maybe next time just start with the topic at hand. I only say this because I almost clicked off the video and wouldve missed out on very valuable information concerning the transfer case. I'd hate for others to lose out on this information simply because of the first 5-10 min of the video with the covering of the exterior and interior features of the specific vehicle you were showcasing the work on. Just kind of felt like filler content and out of place with the real reason most are even watching the video for in the first place. Came for information on jeep transfer cases not the different model options. Not being rude at all, just a simple feed back suggestion from one tiny member of your audience. Other than that, I applaud your channel and the knowledge you have with this trade. Grew up in 3rd generation garage, dad and grandad were mechanics. So I'm all too familiar with how many people claim to be one when in all honesty they legally shouldn't be allowed to fill a gas tank. It's nice coming across a channel that is actually very knowledgeable. Keep up the good work!
My friend has 2014 overland overland quadra-trac 2 hemi motor for like I have like come on similar symptoms that he's describing about it feeling ideas kicking in the four-wheel-drive clicking noise underneath the vehicle he took the dealer first he also needed a new transfer case$7,000! He has only 60,000 mechanical type I told him to bring it on down and we would scan it and take a look at it did a little research on the Jeep forum many folks on there but turned out to be the transmission control unit under the front seat failed $275 bucks, and the transfer case shifter motor gear had broke 175 bucks so $450 sound a lot better $7,000 so we fixed! 2 years later still running driving fine no lights no codes!
I also heard this mechanic said that the engine scan indicated the codes indicated clutch addition that's what the dealer tried to say about my friends transfer case indicated clutch failure! But that code was being thrown because the transfer case shift motor therefore couldn't shift it out of 4-wheel drive but I am sure that if my friend would have continued to drive it more than he did I'm sure this mechanics right it would have burned the transfer case up
I agree with you. The first few minutes had nothing to do with the main issue.
I love the fact that Mrs. Wizard has the responsibility for vehicle interiors. Good choice because she does an outstanding job!
That's the definition of progress. To make something more expensive, complicated and prone to failing without giving you any practical benefit other than not having to press a button.
same with pushbutton start that requires all kinds of expensive electronics to work (securely)
@@Lon1001 yet, I as well as most haven't heard of push button starts giving anyone issue, so yeah. Lets not complain just for the sake of it
@@MaddJakd they work fine except they add $1k+ onto the price of the car, they are less secure, make the ignition system more complicated, the fobs go through batteries quickly and if you lose the fob they are very expensive up replace. But yeah I guess it's convenient for entry and you don't have to take your key out of your pocket or purse or have to listen to your keys jingle as you drive over bumpy roads
Disposable too. Once 3 of the 100 electronic systems are out of service, the car is mechanically totaled if its 8 years old.
Literally every AWD and full-time/real -time/automatic 4wd has this problem. Subi owners can tell you about it.
My daughters 2015 cherokees just went last month at 45,000 miles .Thank God we had purchased an extended warranty .
Thank you for discussing tire wear and its impact on transfer cased and 4wd components. I can't tell you how many times I had to explain that to people that just wanted to pay for 1 tire.
I bought 4 at a time. Didn't help me any. Still got a ruined transfer case at 100K miles.
Wow It's my first 4x4 jeep thank goodness I haven't had the need to replace tires but going forward ill do all 4 each time. rather spend 1k on tires then 3-6k on a transfer case lol.
PTU (power transfer unit) My 2020 Jeep Cherokee was literally jerking 2 feet to the left then 2 feet to the right while driving and then my service 4WD light on dash came on. This issue was a slow process over a couple months. Took it into the dealer 3 difference times between 13,000 miles and 61,000 miles because of the jerking while driving. Finally the service 4WD was on the 3rd time. After they checked it the 3rd time find out the PTU is bad from factory and when I asked how often jeeps are getting fixed for this issue he looked it up and said it’s about 712 replacements a week for this part going bad and that they are doing a goodwill warranty on this part. Personally with this many a week coming in with issues in the USA don’t see why they don’t just do a recall and fix issues because this is going to cause people accidents. It was pretty scary to be jerked 2 feet left and 2 feet right while driving!
Buddy of mine operates several 60's 6x6 army trucks. His yard is filled with mounted tires with the circumference written on them. When he needs to replace a tire, sometimes he has to remove all 4 rears to make up a set of the proper size. He uses the smallest tires on the front because of a sprag that lets the rear tires overrun the fronts. He says if the fronts are larger, they try to pull the entire truck along. He says when the sizes are right, the truck rolls along much more free.
That open space where the spare is 'missing' is used for the DEF tank on diesel models. The spare tire is under the floor inside the vehicle.
On the Durango which shares a platform with the Grand Cherokee it does have the spare there to allow for the floor to be flat for the third row of seats.
I had a 2011 Grand Cherokee with the 5.7 that had MDS.
Cam lifter seized at 128k miles and messed up the camshaft. I sold it broken because I was tired of repairs and it was half the value of the Jeep to fix the lifter and cam.
@@BubblesTheCat1 Stellantis, sounds like a new Medication for E.D. !!!
@@BubblesTheCat1 you mean Toyota that had to recall and replace over 100,000 engines in 2020 due to a serious manufacturing flaw that can cause the engine to blow up and cause a fire. Go away, Sheep
Same thing on the BMW X3/X5 - always makes sure you have the same tread depth on all tires.
More people need to watch this video. This is a great explanation as to why all tires should be replaced in certain vehicles. Thanks again Wizard!
It's pretty much the case for all awd vehicles on the market, even Toyota. Gotta replace all tires at the same time or you risk damaging awd components.
You drive your jeep to the grocery store spotless all around, to the soccer field, to the office - never been off-road but breaks down because of tires? Such a good car!
its long been known that awd and 4wd vehicles need four matching tires. customers and even managers at shops say bullshit but its not and never has been.
you lack of basic knowledge how permanent 4wd works, but then again you are from merica so it is kind of normal.
Jeeps are rubbish made by Stellantis scumbags
@@BubblesTheCat1 Car owners are rubbish and don't do the maintenance and follow procedures and blame the car.
@@joer8854 But toyota's still run on pretty much only oil changes
Car Wizards theme is a reflection of Car Wizard himself. Get in there, do the job, and its done
@Niel Barnesyes he is. 😄
... and charge a Fortune doing so.
Ahhh ! Mrs Wizard's gentle voice - so soothing !
Creep
So, I'm glad that the Car Wizard covered this, because I bought a '18 GC a few months ago from a reputable online vendor where they had replaced just the rear tires. Annoyingly, the owner's manual states you can safely do this - it states you just have to replace both on the same axle. Had I seen this beforehand, I would've negotiated for replacement tires all the way around,
Thankfully, I caught this video soon enough that I was able to replace the mismatched front tires with the same exact model in the same exact size, and avoided having to shave tires to match the tread depth. I'm hoping that my transfer case stays happy for awhile and that I didn't drive on the mismatched set long enough to cause problems. But I wish I had this information sooner.
It's not enough to just match the tire size - it has to be the SAME EXACT brand, model, AND size. The diameter of the tire can very greatly between different brands and models despite reporting the same tire size, and of course different tires wear at different rates. Even if you started with brand new tires, but different brands/models on each axle, there can be enough of a mismatch in diameter that causes the clutches to burn up. The front tires on mine (prior to replacement) were a full 1/2" shorter in diameter despite the sidewall stating they were the same size.
My brother in law had a slightly older one of these beauties. Lovely design and drive with a gorgeous interior, but he put a heck of a lot of miles on it for his business which often involved towing quite heavy stuff. When it finally started to complain in earnest, this is EXACTLY what had gone wrong. So he got rid of it and bought a Range Rover.
Out of the frying pan...
Thanks Wizard. This is great information. I have a 2012 with 156,000 miles on it. I've been really happy with it since new and want to keep it going. I have the MOPAR unlimited mileage warranty but stuff like this keeps me up at night. I try really hard to maintain it and avoid problems.
If memory serves, going back into the 70ies or 80ies , the Jeep "Quadra-Track " system also required that all 4 tire dimensions had to be the same, or the system would destroy itself. Great videos !
Same height only. Its still that way on any 4wd
Yes, that is correct.
Love the common sense attitude and relaxed delivery of all information on this channel!!! 👍👍
My daughters went our right after they purchased it . They got it used at a dealer under warrenty, they had to replace it. It's been back to the shop every 3 months. I would not buy one, ever.
166000 miles and still going strong! All about how you take care of it (with a dose of being a goldilocks ride off the assembly line)
So they were sold a crappy used Cherokee. I assume that when they purchased it from the dealer it came with a warranty?
I kept a huge amount of spare tyres for my old BMW Z3 2.8ltr, was blowing side walls on my dirt driveway, had to change both sides at once, not all 4, so I just started keeping the undamaged as a spare, so sometimes I didn't need to buy a new one, also kept buckling rear rims on the inside lip, finally just changed the rim's, Rj in Oz
Given that speed sensors are at work sending data from all wheels, you might think some sort of comparator circuit would be included to set off an alarm on such an expensive time bomb. Full time AWD systems on other brands can also give out for the same reason or even worse, buying two tires and somebody manages to fit the wrong tire size to your vehicle.
Not even a circuit, the computer just needs to look at the telemetry and throw a "critical service needed" message and code if any wheel rotation rates are more than off. Really nanny ecus could put it in limp mode until reset.
yeah there is no reason the programming couldn't have been written to notice when a single half-shaft/axle is ALWAYS rotating precisely some ratio slower or faster than the others. Instead they only half-committed to a design and made it contingent on the 4 tires having the exact same circumference with no tolerance.
@@Lon1001 Agreed. You would think the system could be programmed to "learn" any continuous tyre diameter differences, eg measured at speed on a presumably open road, and then factor in those differences when looking for wheel slippage.
Hah, mine had faulty connector to TC shift motor so dealer had to replace the connector and the motor. I guess manufacturing problem?
Otherwise I love WK2. They are awesome comfy highway cruisers that do very well for light offroading or camping.
I'm on my fourth GC: 2011 Overland and 2014, 2017, 2020 Summits. All bought new, and with the 5.7 Hemi. All good/great vehicles. The 2011 was a bit 'buggy' as far as the electronics go, but the others were all better and better. I feel for the money, it's hard to beat the 'bang for the buck' the Jeep GC delivers. Very interesting about the tire size difference causing failure. I'll keep that in mind, as I plan on keeping the 2020 for more than three years. I'm wondering if you should rotate the tire more often???
You only had them for 3 years each. Not enough time to even get out of warranty. Of course your not going to have issues.
@@xrlxmayhem9875 lol. Yeah I hope a modern car can go 3 years without major issues.
Thanks for the video Car Wizard! Three years later, 2012 Grand Cherokee Overland, Hemi, approx. 85,000 miles. Transfer case and control module. $4700. The last time I did tires I had done all 4, same model, same size. No warning from the EVIC. No "Serv 4WD" message. The way I knew something was wrong was when making a turn, it felt like someone was slamming on the brakes. I was told that the Hemi is too strong for the T-case and ends up chewing them up. Interesting note. Once the control module was replaced, I get instructions on how to set the t-case into 4 low on the EVIC when starting the vehicle. Never had that before the control unit was swapped.
Just thought I'd share!
Thanks for the varied vehicles you highlight and you easy presentation style. Mrs. Wizard is a great addition and she sure is kept busy. Continued success in all you both attempt.
You should mention that tire shaving services are available if you need to replace one tire well before the rest need replacing. Also proper rotation of the tires is important so all 4 wear evenly. You need not necessarily replace all 4 tires.
I think that is a last resort option only as your tire traction is critical for acceleration, turning and stopping. Maybe consider a FWD car if buying 4 tires at once is a problem.
@@LarsonChristopher Tire shaving makes the new tire the same size as the other three. It doesn't have anything to do with the things you mentioned. Obviously if the other three are unsafe you wouldn't shave a new tire to match the unsafe 3 tires. You just buy 4 tires. That's what we've done for years, just get 4 new tires.
Meanwhile, the Hilux laughs in indestructibility.
That is because Toyota added RWD lock out on those (so you can drive with mismatched tyre for a while if you wanted to).
This Jeep doesn't have that...
And a 1999 Cherokee with a 4.0, AX15, NP231, and half million miles laughs at the Hilux…
My son's gf sister bought a 2019 Jeep Cherokee and I specifically told her not to. She said life was too short not to make mistakes and knew the Jeep wasn't very good and also got a bad deal on financing. So far she's had to get the engine worked on
@@JohnSmith-uy2jg yep. She wanted the Jeep because she wanted a Wrangler, but all the different packages confused her and the Cherokee was in this cool orange color. They guy threw some numbers at her, she put 40% down on it, financed the rest amd within 4 months, the engine was surging bad. They told her it was a bad 'plug'. Then that didn't fix it, and said it was the throttle position sensor. She knows nothing about cars and I tried telling her they were full of crap, but it has a year left on the warranty and they are fixing it for 'Free', even though she paid a $75 service fee. That's not free. But whatever. Some people you can't tell anything to at all.
@@clifbradley you need to see a psychologist
@@Vadim_Andr. based on empirical evidence of?
Thanks guy. A breath of fresh air to get straight answers that's clear like this. I like how you gave it straight. Some mechanic wouldn't say a word just to have a customer come back 😂. Thanks 👍🏽
Thanks for listing the Jeep's transfer case strongpoints and what it is going to cost you to maintain that level of mechanical perfection just for that transmission.
Best Husband and wife team in the auto world!❤✌
I think it's a tie between them and South Main Auto
@@AgaetiAlex Neutral Drop is my favorite mechanics
👍🤎
Always read your owner's manual. Trying to save a couple hundred turns into a multi-thousand dollar bill.
A couple hundred?? Have you bought tires lately?
lol Four tires for this beast installed is probably $800.
@@Kewrock And the transfer case is several thousand. You'll still be in the hole for more by cheaping out on tires.
@@SkylineFTW97 I'm not saying you shouldn't do it. I'm saying you shouldn't have to. Having to replacing 3 good tires because the fourth blew out is appalling.
@@Kewrock I agree. I don't think 99% of people benefit from having AWD. I think it's a waste. More points of failure from improper maintenance, reduced gas mileage, it's extra resources down the drain because people are scared of driving in a light snowdrift or a rainstorm, which you by no means need AWD for. I actively encourage people to avoid getting it whenever possible.
Woah, the failure was caused by uneven tires! Holy wow. What a mistake!!!!!! No freaking way.
Subaru is the same.
Honda Toyota Acura lexus
Pay attention to tire rotation and air pressures? My XJ came with 153k miles, 4wd still worked. 183k when I blew it up... my fault.
Well if I'm not mistaken this particular type of transfer case allows the car to be like an all-wheel drive vehicle and in any all-wheel drive vehicle if you have different tire sizes or mismatching tires on the car it can cause the burnout of the transfer case so that doesn't just apply to Chrysler products that's any all-wheel drive car.
@@dodgeplow Except every decent tire shop will tell a Subaru owner they need to replace all 4 tires because it is a universal requirement for every Subaru sold in the last 30 years or so. The real issue here is it only applies to Jeep models with this particular 4WD system. You have to really know your stuff to realize which trim levels this applies to, etc.
taking the Wheel Mud covers out of thw wheel well you have complete access to the Exhaust bolts. Much easier to grind, drill and retap the broken heat shields top bolt combo.
Every time I see these videos, I am more pleased than ever to continue driving my 95 Jeep GC with Command-Trac. I know, I know. They didn't have the most robust T cases or transmissions either, but with regular maintenence, they are as good as anything else. as long as the driver understands the duty rating, and does not abuse it.
You would think a transfer case would be the strong point in a jeep. I guess not when it's a fiat jeep.
How original of you. You sound like a child who just discovered Jeep is now owned by Fiat and wants the entire world know of this giant revelation.
No, weak transfer cases is at least a 25 year tradition lol. The NP249 was a weak ass transfer case too and that was a Chrysler-Jeep era part.
@@umad42 we used to offroad the ild cherokeess wjen I was in highschool. We never blew one up. Even water logged the 4.0. It kept running
@@ipdjbt you must not have much of a social life.
Apart the fact that Jeep wasn't FCA in 2013... They got it on 12 ottobre 2014 and still models coming out from there have been "pure Chrysler" for years (it doesn't take 1 month to go from design to test to mass produce a vehicle).
Now that you've showed your ignorance, you can put back on your donkey hat.
Tire size difference is no joke. GM g80 locker hates the oem spare. Luckily I wasn't far from home. I didn't know better, tho i should have....
FYI on different sized tires - my VW Tiguan 4Motion has the same requirement - change them all the dealer said.
@@matthewalbers31 if the 3 tires are still in good shape you can just get a new tire shaved down to match the other tire
I though you could be within 2/32
Good to know. I own a 2014 JGC Overland. Owned since 2015 with 28k miles. Just turned over 121k. The only issues I have had in almost 100k miles is the vapor sensor assembly that the Chrysler mechanics didn’t want to cover under warranty but as soon as it was out of warranty I took to my friends garage he took off the engine cover did a smoke check and within seconds he saw the issue and ordered the parts. It was fixed within 3 minutes the next day… I’ll never go to another Chrysler garage again.
what was the problem?
@vadim Andr. it was a small plastic connector in line of the vapor system that was cracked. He replaced the plastic elbow that was cracked, hooked up both hoses tk the piece and I never had another issue with it.
Sadly I sold that Jeep 3 months ago. It was an amazing vehicle for me. It had 159k miles at the time I sold it. Good luck with yours!
@@short0811 where is it located (about).
I ask because my car stood for 4 years and when I started it, the signal gas cap immediately popped up
@vadim Andr. I'm not sure exactly. It's been years since I dealt with that issue. It was I line with the vaporizer. (That is what my mechanic friend told me) he had it fixed extremely quickly once he had the part.
I learned while working in the tire shop not only do transfer cases love it when the vehicle has all four of the same tire, they also love when directional tires are mounted in the correct direction as well.
Videos like that prove why you are *the Car Wizard* . Congrats for sharing with us such deep knowledge.
This is why I'd never buy a used car with AWD, unless the owner can show me receipts that all four tires were replaced at the same time, every time with brand new tires. People talk about how reliable Subarus are, but I have seen so many with driveteain issues caused by neglect. I see more drivetrain issues than the notorious headgasket issues on Subarus. This rule applies to any AWD vehicle.
Would a dash light indicator be a solve?
I mean something to let the driver know the system is active…
A light constantly going on and off might make a person wonder
Yes. Or the computer could detect it and switch keep it 2WD only with some error code. They just dont care.
Thanks for this video. I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee and will always replace tires in full sets after this. You might also want to do a video about the failing rocker arms/lifters/lash adjusters on the Chrysler Pentastar V6 engines used in these Jeep’s, as well as in millions of other Mopars.
Or the Ford 5.4 that chews itself to pieces.
I never hear a quiet 3.6. They are a garbage motor. People just keep driving them till failure because they have no resale value.
Or the chrysler Hemi !!!@@99jeepxjguy97
That was so informative.
My nephew bought a used Grand Cherokee within weeks of using it had already started having to replace the transfer case.
Thanks for the info.
Tires. Premature PTU failure on Fords can partially be attributed to tires with uneven wear. It's NOT advised to replace one or two tires at a time, it's recommended to change all four.
I had to replace rear axle after just 80k miles / 6 years, and transfer case this winter - 16 years, on my 2005. I still love it and will never sell it.
@snsproduc
Just do it....
Maybe you were very lucky and though the tires were mismatched the outside diameter was by luck...the same.
The trans doesn't care about the brand name or tread pattern...only the outside diameter......
If it's that sensitive, it sounds like a software issue they could have released. Don't tires wear unevenly naturally from steering and normal wear?
Yeah and I'm sure fronts will wear more when braking
Yes, and that is a consideration for rotating them
@@XB10001 Oil change plus rotate on well...any car it can't hurt, but AWD or 4WD yeah its very good habbit
Not when there is a 1 new tire that has significantly better traction than the rest of the 3 old tires. It is also a little bigger in diameter due to the rest of the 3 tires are worn. Of course the front tires will wear faster because the vehicle will always shift weight to the front during braking. But at least, the tires are worn evenly as a pair of front and rear.
@@ryanroberts1104 very true. However, this problem shouldn't exist for so long.
Another great video, thanks wizard.
Thank you car wizard, I just picked up a 2023 grand Jeep Cherokee, Quadra Trac 1 - I’m assuming this is something I should also be aware of with my tire wear and just very good tire rotation as I have 17’s on here. So far I love it. I’m coming from Front Wheel Dr., Honda’s for the past 13 years. I will tell you the new five link suspension is incredible. I am floating on the ground it’s beautiful.
I’m a proud owner of a 2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo with a 3.6 L V6. I have had the T-Case replaced as well and I can say: Just eMPTY eVERY pOCKET
Same rule for Tires applys for pretty much every 4wd car. Also on Subarus
AWD not 4WD. If it has a 2WD to 4WD select dial you won't have this problem
You would think in the age of electronics and computer controls that the vehicle with know it had different size tires for they were the same and be able to compensate for that
they do.... its all about getting you to waste money on tires so they can void a warranty
@@mcf3778 obviously they can't detect the difference in tire sizes or the transfer case would not burn up. Did you not watch the video??
why would a manufacturer incorporate an expensive and non trivial technology (adding an entire system) into a vehicle when they could simply state "you need four matching tires at all times or damage to driveline will ensue"
@@kingoftaurus the abs system does not possess the technology to accurately know what tires are on the car and change the behavior of the powertrain to compensate. how can abs detect the tread pattern of a tire? tread depth? abs relies primarily on wheel speed data. knowing how fast a wheel is spinning cant possibly give the data points needed for these calculations.
That's a very expensive solution to a very trivial problem
I had a 2010 Grand Cherokee limited with the QuadraDrive II. I put 3 (yes 3!) transfer cases in it before the Jeep dealer found the transfer case control module had a damaged circuit board that was causing the transfer case motor to constantly engage the clutches. Apparently that’s also a known issue.
This. The DTCM is a low cost, known failure item and cheap insurance against tearing up a new transfer case. I replace both the transfer case and the DTCM as a set when I perform this repair.
I have a 2013 Hemi 4x4 Grand Cherokee, great video I learned something
Excellent video wizard as usual... what about the awd v6 with no low range? Does it have the same issue with tire size?
I dont need a computer to shift my own gears when i can do it myself.
If you buy any car awd on not, budget for a set of 4 tires minimum.
Thanks, first time I heard about the tires needing matching as one of issues for failures, good thing to look for while shopping for a used jeep. Chevy Astro vans with all wheel drive didn't like uneven tires and required the Smurf juice, otherwise the vehicle would shudder.
I run the same size tires and rotate them once a year. I check the tread depth with a gauge to make sure all 4 are wearing the same. One trick I use is running 2lbs less pressure in the rear tires (unless the Jeep is heavily loaded). It actually keeps the tires closer to the same height because the weight of the engine causes the tires in the front to be slightly shorter. Example: 37psi in the front tires and 35psi in the rear. It works, I promise. My last QD2 GC lasted 178k miles and was still going on the original transfer case when I sold it. My current one is at 191k miles and also has the original QD2 transfer case. They both had plenty of other problems though, and I do not recommend one unless you do your own repair work. They are great when everything is working, but will break you if you have to pay a mechanic to do all the little repairs that they will require. Mostly suspension stuff like ball joints, end links and control arms. Then there's diff bushings and drive shafts. Also engine sensors, alternators, and water pumps.
You're not changing the circumference of the tires. Just lowering the "look" of the rear. Have a leveling kit installed. Jeeps are almost as bad as GM trucks with the high rear end.
@@Dan_Bender Measure the center circumference of the tire at different pressures and I can promise you they get taller or shorter. 40lbs will be taller than 30lbs. The sidewall wont change much but the car rides mainly in the center portion of the tires. The bigger tires change more from pressure than smaller ones
This is so timely, I was thinking of buying one of these in the UK. One question, do the same sort of mechanical issues exist with the same year’s SRT8 model?
Yes, you will likely experience the exhaust bolt snapping issue, also transmission issues are common on this generation.
I would stay away from all US made vehicles in the last 10 years.
@@CrossingRover Man, I sure do hate that I have to agree with you.
The moral of this story is stay away from ALL Wheel Drive (especially Chrysler/Fiat products), purchase a 4x4 where you have to physically engage the other two wheels.
If you're looking at a WK2, buy a newer one. Its more expensive but the first few years of these had quite a few issues.
@@CrossingRover well that's nonsense since Toyota's and Honda's built in the US are very well made. This is a Chrysler issue not a country of origin issue. The Yanks can build great cars they just need the Japanese to show them how
...same story for BMW xDrive, they even specify special tyres with with a star 😅
Mine seems to work fie after 200000km
It’s a Chrysler. A company that’s gone broke twice. Quality has never been it’s companies strong point.
did you not see the video?
This can happen to any 4wd car. You need to have all 4 tires with the same thread depth or don't buy 4wd
To be fair it looks like the transfer case was made by Magna...That's like saying all Boeings are crap because the GE engines are bad.
I was thinking it was a Fiat product, but maybe I'm think of the newer ones.
Yep, it's the same with the Infiniti G35x. A good number of AWD systems say the same thing about replacing tires in their manuals.
I am not a mechanic, but why not to replace the frictions disks in the transfer case? They seems to be existing around $150? Does it need too many hours or special tools? (and I guess the provider of a new transfer case want old one back exactly to replace friction disks).
I'll never forget when I realized this and swore off Jeeps forever, for a vehicle said to be reliable, they sure do break a lot
Granted I think that's more Chrysler infecting it, but even my old XJ and ZJ models broke a whole lot more than I would consider a reliable
Sounds like operator error, I owned 80s and 90s Jeeps never had a problem the last one I got rid of was a 1996 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo limited it had over 200,000 miles on it still ran strong!!
Course it also had the 4.0 inline 6 cylinder in a which of course in cubic inch displacement is literally a 242 in line 6!
I have a '98 XJ, 225k miles. Nothing but rust holding it together. Runs great.
Wow said they were reliable?😂
@@American-Motors-Corporation ooh 200k miles, whooptie do...
@@xephael3485 Hey, don't make fun of the Jeep guys. Let them enjoy their little milestones.
Interesting about needing to replace all 4 tires at the same time.
interesting and typical of Chrysler to do this!
i went to Chrysler training center in Elk Grove Village, il. in the early 70's.
after I completed the course, I vowed i would never work for the company as a mechanic or own one of their piles of junk!
I'm 71 now and have never broken that vow!
i have owned 2 pre Chrysler jeeps and loved both!
also, the bone yards in my area usually had a section reserved for mopars that had caught fire because they didn't get rid of the burrs of metal on the interior of the dash and
it would cut thru wires over time.
you would also slice your hands up trying to work in those areas.
@@scootypooper - This has nothing to do with Chrysler and everything to do with AWD. Please show me a manufacturer who doesn't demand equal size tires on their AWD vehicles.
you dont have to replace all 4 tires if your other tires are good you can get a new tire shaved down to match the other 3
It isn't an unheard of recommendation in vehicles with full time 4x4 setups.
@@scootypooperChrysler cease to exist in 1998. Also hard to believe you were ever a good mechanic. For example I dislike GM as a brand but I have no issues admitting when they produce a good vehicle. FCA or Stallantis has produced some great vehicles in the past 10 years but hey if you are going to make judgements based of off 50 year old information and a complete different company than so be it. You a re getting to hung up on the name.
People dont understand when you buy an awd vehicle the extra maintenance and cost involved.
Excellent video. Not many ppl know this. And this applies to all AWD vehicles. Change all 4 tires people otherwise you will pay later.
Thank God I seen this video i was going to put 2 new tires on my 2012 in the morning
Audi Quattro and Volvo all-wheel drive systems also require all four tires to be the same size.
basically the Subaru issue. replace one, replace all
That's what I was wondering
Sorry but I’ve had 5 Subarus since 1996 and I’ve never done this and not had any transmission problems on any of them. And I’ve replaced about 50 tires!
@@darcycuttlefish3981 ODD because Subaru themselves tell you to change all 4 tires and since I work as a mechanic I have seen tons of Subu's with transferase problems because the owners had mismatched tires.
Would it make a difference if the two new tires were the same brand, model, and size?
Wouldn't different tire pressures do the same thing as new tires in the front or back?
Or if you don't rotate them every week. it is nearly impossible to have all tires wear equally all the time. poor design.
Wow. Great video! I looked at a 2011 GC Overland today with the svc 4wd light on. 2 new tires in front 2 banana skins in the back! I did not buy it but told the guy I needed to do some research first. I’ll try for the lower price tomorrow and if he says no, then I’ll pass. Too bad. Was one of the nicest ones I’ve seen in months otherwise. Thanks for the video!
Very good information. I have one for years. If your a shade tree mechanic they are not extremely difficult to swap out. One of the most accessible parts on a vehicle these days.
My late -94 GC had the transfer case with a viscous coupling assisting the central differential. Even with same-size tires, it somehow had overheated the viscous coupling, maybe when off-roading, and as it overheats and sort of leaks the inner fluid to the transfer case oil, it sucks oil in it when it cools. Then it seems to turn even more viscous, and in parking halls the tires start to squeal. Then the TC is in permanent "almost locked 4 wheel drive"-mode... An amphetamine junkie stole it and totaled it, so I did not have to fix it. It also is like a negative lottery win here in Finland, as drug junkies are so rare species that cops know who to arrest when something spesific happens, so they just went to his place and arrested him telling his DNA was found in the Jeep. He confessed and was jailed. I then bought a H3. That is way better than the Jeep, off-road or anyplace. Almost as good as my -79 Blazer...
I had a 2011 and that car was a nightmare. Replaced 2 steering racks, countless air ride suspension components, tie rods, every control arm in the car. I must have been robbed 10k out of that money pit. I wouldn’t wish that car on my worst enemy
Buying first year of any car is bound to have issues. The 2011-2013 WK2 have a lot of issues.
I can confirm that as I have a 2011. It's a sweet ride on the days that it's not giving me grief. The problem is, is that those days are few and far in between.
@@alexhill828 my 2012 Camry is flawless and just finished a 10,000 mile roadtrip.
Chrysler is just garbage.
@@White03T4RV82WD - Driving a 2012 Camry is like drinking lukewarm coffee every single day.
I mean every car will need new suspension after ~120k. Stuff works hard and wears out. Plan on it, do it yourself for a few hundred in parts, or buy new and don't worry about it. Don't buy anything with air ride. Sucks about the steering parts though.
What a great and informative video. The transfer case reminds me how the C5 traction system works. The computer knows the tires are 1" in diameter different from front to back. The transfer case uses the same logic except the 4 tires have to be exact. Thank you for the video!!! :)
Thanks
How about if I choose never to use the 4 wheel drive, will that save my transfer csse? After 4 months since purchasing a 2013 Grand Cherokee 4x4 Overland all systems are a go.
It looks like it was well maintained. The interior also looks very clean. 😀😀😀
“Failing” transfer cases?
Every transfer case I’ve come across that “failed”, didn’t just stop working, *they were cracked in half* !
Here’s another goody Jeep throws at you. Transmissions on Compass models is a closed system. Once it starts slipping, you can’t have it rebuilt. You have to buy a new one or a used one from a junk yard that may still be good. Fun times.
It's a CVT. It's not that it's a closed system, it's that you have to rebuild it to replace the belt, which is an option.
Not all of the transmissions in the Compass. Just the CVT. As with most other CVTs in any brand.
@@americanparser Ok. Thank you both for clarifying that. All I know is the shop said “no soup for you”.
@@fitfogey Fair enough.
Just another reason I kept driving my 05 Ram 2500. You manually shift the 4x4!
No thanks. My city and area of town is very hilly and it rains a lot here. I want AWD. Without it, my wheels would be constantly spinning half the year.
A lot of full size 4x4 pickups are including full time modes in many mid-high trim levels ("4A" in Ford, "4WD Auto" in Ram, "Auto" on the selector in GMs), so if you are using the auto mode it is likely not any different that this Grand Cherokee. I think most trucks use a clutch/slip system in the center diff/transfer case and when you switch from 4A to 4H it engages a mechanical lock. Some older auto 4wd systems used live axles and then engaged the hubs electronically but I doubt that system is used on any new vehicle these days because of the fuel economy. It's unfortunate that SUVs with full time AWD/4X4 hybrids don't usualy include a 2WD mode to completely disconnect the second set of wheels (especially on a RWD based system like the Grand Cherokee).
@@OMGWTFLOLSMH having options is always the best - I like that some pickups allow you to switch between all 4 modes (2wd, AWD, 4H, 4L) since in your case you could leave it in AWD mode, but on dry days you could put it in 2WD and not worry about wear and tear on the clutch pack plus save a little on fuel.
@@OMGWTFLOLSMH lmao sounds like my town and everyone uses fwd cars. learn to drive properly.
My wife had a jeep patriot she had some issues with tires the computer was confused when the tires were worn uneven its true you have to change all 4 tires even if it's not a 4X4. You give great advice
need make normal alignment!
makes me appreciate the np241 in my suv. 30 years old and still works like it should
That dash layout looks a LOT like the one in my 2011 Chrysler Town and Country
Jeeps are usually a parts bin special. Don't even get started on where the XJ had some of its parts sourced originally.
@@puckstopper25 Wrong, the 2011-2013 GC had an older style interior from the Daimler Mercedes ownership. After FIAT acquired them, the 2014+ got a brand new dash and upgraded interior. Not that any of this matters to you, because you know next to nothing about modern Jeeps.