I believe you have created the cursed timeline where Rome and Carthage are allies. Given how terribly suited the Spartan way of ruling things was, there is no way they can maintain such an expansive empire. The bigger question is how they fall apart.
Given that Spartan slavery was the most brutal system in the world, rivaled only by the Trans-Atlantic slave trade, I think under this scenario Philipos and Alexandros would legitimately be viewed as liberators by Hellenes and Persians alike. Also, since you asked for scenarios, I've asked a number of Alternate History UA-camrs to do this one, but nobody has yet: What if the Jewish Khazars conquered Russia?
@@Videntis.History So I'm sure you already know this, but for those who don't, the Khazars were a Turkic people from the steppes. One of their Khagans, a man named Bulan but also sometimes called Sabriel, converted to Judaism. The Khazars dominated the northern black sea and the lucrative Silk Road trade through those ports. They enjoyed close relations with the Byzantine Romans, frequently fighting as allies against the Umayyad and Abbasid Caliphates. Emperor Leo IV of the Romans was even known as "the Khazar" for his heritage. Despite this, the Rus would eventually conquer their lands. Sorry, I am fuming because I accidentally erased half my response. Going to half to break this up.
@@Videntis.History So, how do we prevent the collapse of Khazaria? First, it is know that the early Pagan Khazars practiced slavery, selling captives to Muslim traders. Whether this continued after conversion is unclear, but in our timeline we will definitively say that it is banned inn order to engender good will with their non-Turkish subjects, especially the Slavs. Second, it is known that the Khazars were religiously tolerant even before their conversion and we will continue this trend. Jews, Christians, Muslims, and even Pagans of all descriptions would be accepted in Khazaria. Though it is likely that Jews would be favored for administrative positions, many Orthodox Christians would occupy prestigious roles in the Khazar courts and be granted favorable trade contracts in order to ensure continued good relations with the Romans and other Orthodox nations such as the Bulgars. As for their Pagan subjects, I could see the Khagan developing his own brand of the Varangian Guard, though they would likely serve more as a border patrol than an elite corp, protecting Slavs on the western borders from tribes outside the empire or from Norse raiders. I could see a similar order being established along the eastern borders for the Muslims, though perhaps the Muslim border guard would be more reminiscent of the Caucasian Mamluks or Ottaman Turkish Janissaries, though I will leave that to your discretion.
With the collapse of the Umayyad Caliphate, the less expansionist Abbasids would have given the Roman-Khazar alliance time to focus on their western borders, and the persistent thorn in the side of the Romans, the Bulgars. In the real world, the Khazars had defeated the Bulgars in 668, driving them into the lands that would become Bulgaria. In our new timeline, we can say that the closer Roman-Khazar alliance negotiates a Bulgarian annexation towards the end of the eighth century. In the real world, the Khazars would suffer a massive revolt in 830, as the early Magyars would ally with a faction of rival Khazar tribes known as the Khavars (A.K.A. Kabars, Qavars). This rebellion was crushed and the survivors fled west and went on to create the nation of Hungary. In our timeline, we will say that the response to the rebellion was less harsh, with the Khavars themselves being scattered across the border guard where they could be watched by more loyal subjects rather than being outright massacred. We will also have the Khagan grant the defeated Magyars permission to settle the Carpathian basin as prominent vassals. While this will undoubtedly generate tensions with the Romans, we will say that a compromise is reached allowing Orthodox priests to preach in Pagan territories of Khazaria, appeasing the emperor. In the real world, Khazaria declined and collapsed in the Tenth century, as the Roman Khazar alliance dissolved and the Romans began advocating for the Khazars Alanic vassals to rise up against them, all while the growing power of the Rus were breathing down their necks. However, in our new timeline, with better defended borders, a more centralized administration focused around the Black Sea, and stronger Roman-Khazar relations, we will instead have it that the Khazars manage to conquer the growing power. This would be the golden age for Khazaria, becoming a second home for the Jewish diaspora in a way that even Andalusia never could. How the next two centuries unfold, I leave up to you, though I think it is likely that the Mongols would eventually conquer the Khazars.
Love your work. My suggestion: What if The Western Roman Empire was able to fortify the Italic homeland from barbarian invasion and keep out the barbarians? Retaining a unified Italy under a West Roman State. P.S. They would still lose the rest of their empire, they just are able to hold onto their homeland. Can’t wait for part 2. Keep up the great work. Peace ✌🏻
@@kenos911If the EASTERN ROMANS beat the Ottomans back and continued on to Iraq they could have broken the Turks/Persians and continued using this momentum to conquer Syria and the Balkans just like the Ottomans did and possibly reconquer north Africa just like the Ottomans did, and possibly conquest Arabia just like the Ottomans did With more support from Wallachia and the other Christians up north, rather than having a Dracula they could possibly move on to conquer Austria instead in a few centuries after African reconquest With this just as the Ottomans said, Italy would be open to conquest. These conquest are all realistically possible if you ask me.
@@randomguy6152 It’s not realistic without major European help after 1204. The 4th crusade was a devastating blow for the byzantines, and they never recovered in terms of dynastical or administrative stability past that point. Unless some legendary ruler comes along, I doubt they could defeat the ottomans, even when they were a small beylik (keep in mind, they were really skilled, and being hired by several major players such as france). Depending on what time frame, the ilkhanate, which historically won against the byzantines, would have to lose so they gain iraq. Not exactly possible unless another major crusade happens, which, given that Byzantium is orthodox, not really likely. Also, conquering the hre I would be very, very hard without Allies like france, which would probably want some of Italy anyway. Maybe a possible personal Union between the two happens? Idk man… The most sucessful Byzantine alt hits imo would be if Irene of Athens married the holy Roman emperor. This was something considered in real life, and might have been successful if stabilized. This was also before the split off between Catholics and orthodox, so no problems there until 3 more rulers
@@copperpolice9650 That's a cool idea, but the thing is you would have to change some really big things about the terrain or economics of the Eastern Empire that it would spiral beyond just the point of the East falling instead. Like I'm talking removing entire mountain ranges or changing the economic viability of areas that played a huge role in the ancient world, stuff like that would spiral history so much Rome may have never existed in the first place. Then again, very little amounts of Alternate history are really realistic at all so it's still a neat concept.
The battle between Sparta and Macedon is an interesting one, but i think its very complex to decide who would come out on top: It all comes down to a few things. a) How do they reorganize their internal issue you briefly touched on? b) How does sparta deal with their Persian conquests? c) What about their relations within greece and their foreign allies? d) Would Philip and Alexander be ACTUALLY scared shitless of sparta this time? (Supposedly philip didnt go after sparta because he was "scared" of their might, however thats debatable, as sparta was weak as fuck at that point) e) What did sparta do within greece until then? I'll go through every point one by one and why its important. a) Depending on how its organized, it may mean various groups may be more or less likely to rebel. Ie if Sparta goes "Dorians are rulers, other greeks are allowed to exist, and everything else is a slave" that means that their entire Asian holdings will constantly rebel. If however they are a bit less xenophobe, and more practical (ie "Spartans are the only group that can serve within the highest roles, Dorians are "Rulers", Greeks are Citizens, Persians are Freedmen, select groups are Helots, with serving within the Spartan army being able to classify you as the next higher group"), then it is POSSIBLE that the Spartan Empire may be extremely strong in comparison to the first option. b) As said above, having an unruly Asia means that they are a paper tiger, and ultimately poised to loose that war. I think if Sparta were to "Hellenize" the regions they may see an increased chance in winning against Macedon. c) If sparta is known in the greek world as an oppressor, then it would easily turn into another Corinthian war. If they however treat other greeks like equals, then its more likely that greece would fight together with sparta, or atleast not turn on them. Same is true for their allies: Good relations = easier time in the war, etc etc. d) The reason this is important is due to timing. One of the main reasons alexander was able to shit on Persia so massively wasnt just because "haha godlike general", but philip II did an important job in preparing macedon to become one of the strongest powers in Europe at the time. Couple that with a REALLY good General, and you get the Alexandrian Empire we got. However if Philip doesnt get to do all that prep work, alexander has a worse deck of cards. Now what decides wether or not philip does the prep (in this case, a small scale skirmish against the spartans)? Wether or not he thinks he can defeat them. If he thinks he cant beat sparta, macedon may be set on a path of northern conquest, or being a major player within greece, but it wont be as strong as OTL. e) This is important for a multitude of reasons. If sparta decides to form a "Federation" of sorts, there would be an incredible amount of strength there. Macedon would also have less cracks they could expoit within the spartan empire. Alternatively, if Sparta decides to "ignore" greece, the inverse will be true: Macedon has more openings and sparta is weaker overall. Now, is it impossible for Macedon to beat a Sparta which has the optimum outcome in all of the above? ABSOLUTELY *NOT*. Alexander was still a MASTER general, and one of the BEST leaders in all of history. However the more criteria sparta fulfills the better that war would turn out for them.
Those are some really good points and factors, since it's alternate history we can't really tell but there are a lot of ways and can come out Oh and btw about Philip invading Sparta if im right he did invade it in our timeline and didn't completely conquer it but reduced it to it's initial extent and Sparta did not want to join and be annexed by the Macedonians
The Spartans would win with the help of their allies and might be the ones to unite Greece and have Sparta form a Greek Empire, with the Spartan king becoming the first Basileus. ( Emperor) of the Greeks, similar to what Augustus did in Rome. But this is a great video, Mr. Videntis. Please keep up the great work, and remember what anybody says, no matter what happens. Always stay true to yourself and believe what you believe in, making you unique. Thank you for creating this fantastic content. I really mean it! Also, what do you think of these suggestions for future videos? What if the death and exile of Catherine of Aragon sparked a war between the Kingdom of England and the Holy Roman Empire because of a rumor Catherine was poisoned? Also, Catherine is the aunt of Charles V of the Holy Roman Empire, for Charles was the son of Joanna the Mad Castile, who happens to be Catherine's sister. What if the Mauryan Empire survived Ashoka the Great by not making Buddhism the main religion but balancing his policy? What if the Mauryans had to conquer Macedonia, and what if one of the Mauryan Empire conquered Persia and became a superpower in South Asia? What if the North Sea Empire survived, wholly united the English Isles and Ireland, and made the Empire more imperial? What if the Ottomans Won the Battle of Ankara? Not only did they win the battle of Ankara, but what if the Ottomans had managed to conquer the Timurid Empire and hold onto Persia? With Persia under the Ottomans' control, the Ottomans would have to conquer Constantinople much earlier. The Ottomans could have a foothold in India, and this could the Mughal Empire not exist because the Mughals were descendants of Timurid and the Mongols themselves. What if Japan won the Imjin War with Oda Nobunaga, surviving his assassination attempt on his life but becoming the first Shogun of Japan, and what if Japan conquered Korea and the whole of Ming China? Would Japan become a significant power in East Asia? Which of these scenarios do you like best, Mr. Videntis? Which five of them are your favorites? Any thoughts, comments, and opinions about these ideas?
for me I would love to see more "dynamic" scenarios in your videos that dosent have one side exclusively winning just for flavour i would like to see perhaps battles the triumphant side lost or perhaps in the scenerio the blunders which were made.
I do not actually believe Alexander would be nearly the rival of Sparta as he was to Persia, the Spartans would not be barbarians to him, they would have a lot of cultural kinship and he would probably be able to recognize the powerhouse a sparta with that much territory would be and dedicate more to Thrace and Dacia's subjugation.
A good idea is what if the Western Roman Empire survived maybe only holding on to italy and other territories there so much that could happen and it would be interesting if the western roman empire would survive until the times of the Muslim conquest and what would happen after this is only my version and idea of what if though.
personally, I think the battle between Sparta and Macedonia would be too close to call due to the other Greek towns and areas joining with Mace to grow stronger and bigger although the battle will be hard because Sparta is 10 times bigger than in our timeline and actually having strong allies.
@warsawpactmapping83 people always seem to forget that Rome even back then had advantages against Greeks. the Romans had more mobile formations and the aera around Rome itself is not flat giving Rome a great advantage
I believe with the help of there two powerful allies and the experience of ruling, there empire should last thousands of years. I also believe that the Spartans would destroy Alexander. Especially if spartas allies join in, then theres no chance of a victory for Alexander
Macedonia wins easily, but they may not get as much land as they did in our timeline. The former Persian lands would most likely revolt, and lands closer to Aegean would stay loyal. This would possibly create a new Corinthian War, now involving Macedonia, possibly securing the end of Sparta's Empire.
Have a weird Alternate History `What if Commodiana Empire Survive" If Commodus lived out his rule -Commodus would have order an expansion of Germania going all the way to modern day Szczecin and as south as Prague. By 221 he would have been 60 and would have had 3 kids with Bruttia Crispina, ( Commodus II , Lucia , Serena ) and will pass away in 233 with Commodus II taking the throne. He be 51 and wanted to fix get rid of the senate but fail instead he burn the Curia and killed all the senators. By 236 Commodus II will pass away by 54, and his 26 year old daughter Caecilia will take the throne. Her rain will be better than the last two emperors. She be the ruler to take down Aksum. By 261 Gallic Empire was form and Caecilia order a huge force to take down but Tetricus I survive and even made a run for Britain. And then Palmyrene Empire broke off from the Commodiana Empire, and it look like the empire was going to collapse but out of no where Sasanian Empire destroyed the state and added to there empire. By this point Caecilia would have been 58, and died from stress made her soon Alexander her successor Alexander would have take back Germania, Gaul , Hispania but not Britannia. His rule would see the end of the civil war era and will pass the throne to his daughter Diana would take rain for 14 years until she step down in 317 due to health and would make her brother Hadrianus emperor, by then he would have taken what the Sasanians took during the civil war era. 336 and we would have seen Commodus III to then his son Amulius became emperor in 370, By this Goths will attack Crimea and move to Moesia. After Amulius comes Isidorus in 409, then Valerius 437 where by 450s Huns where attacking modern day Romania and Attila would take over what is Ukraine, Romania, Hungary, Slovakia ,Austria and parts of sothern Germania. 500s Commodiana Empire would be similar to what Justinian dynasty had but with more of Gaul and Hispania. By 700s Commodiana Empire would be spilt in 5 Constantin Empire, Egyptian Republic, Carthage Kingdom, Kingdom of Italy, Kingdom of Hispania,.
No shot this happens. The Spartans were notorious for how poorly they treated the helots. Also werent they outnumbered 10 to 1 in their home city state by said helots?
The system of rule and education in Sparta is unique. This system made the Spartans one of the greatest and strongest warriors, and through their epic victories and their mentality they became legends. The best example of this is the great hero Leonidas of Sparta with his 300 Spartans and their Greek soldiers. Their spirits still walk the Thermopylae where they died an honorable death to prevent Sparta or all of Greece from becoming slaves to the Persians. The system was brutal, yes. But it was efficient and made Spartan boys into great warriors who were not afraid to die. Who are not effeminate like people today. And you are probably one of them.
if sparta had a good manpower pool with same training, they could very easily adapt to counter macedonian phalanxes and win, albeit at the cost of a permanently multi-ethnic army
The point is that the Spartans brutally enslaved the helots, who were people from the Peloponnese, while the Greek city-states took their slaves by boat from various corners of the Mediterranean,the Spartans Slaved the Helots,Which limited the growth of the real Spartans to just the city of Sparta and some lands around it, the rest 80% of Sparta was helot, which made the Spartans always keep half of the army in home to avoid a revolt Maybe if the Spartans used a system more like servitude instead of brutal slavery And also recruiting them as reserves and support, it could improve
Yes, that would never be possible. Because the Romans wanted revenge for Troy. Just as we Italians see the city of Rome as the mother of our nation. That it gave us and other Latin-Romance peoples beautiful languages. So the Romans saw the city of Troy as their mother. That comes down to the story of how Aeneas and his Trojans managed to escape from Troy after its destruction. So Aeneas went on a similar wandering journey to Odysseus. Until he finally ended up in Italia with the Latin king. He was allowed to marry his daughter. And the Trojans and Latins lived together. His son was called Iullus in Latin. He was said to be the progenitor of the patrician Iulii family, whose most famous representative is Gaius Iulius Caesar the Great. Further in this line, Rex Romulus, the builder and founder of the city of Rome, was also in this line of Iullus and Aeneas. The story of the destruction of Troy has been told time and again in Rome. Even though the Romans had great respect for Greek culture and the Greeks. And one can clearly see the cohesion of the Greco-Roman culture through inspiration and shared history. The Romans wanted to take revenge on the Greek city states. And they conquered them very brutally.
This would inevitably collapse but I think it would still leave a strong Spartan remnant Kingdom, probably keeping most of southern Greece and a large portion of Anatolia one that might be pressured to finally reform some of there more unstable practices. As for Macedonia Sparta would not be so weak or unstable yet to lose but I dont see them fully conquering Macedonia either though I can see them subjugating them as a vassal of some variety.
With Iranian help, sparta could defeat athenians, them here sparta conquered persia🤡 like when romans with help of vandals defeated Iranians in time of great King of kings Khosrow the firtsr, immortal judgementaller soul 😂
But Sparta did conquer Persia, what are we even doing here, those athenians had to cow down behind the spartans who build the wooden wall and won at Plataea.
I believe you have created the cursed timeline where Rome and Carthage are allies.
Given how terribly suited the Spartan way of ruling things was, there is no way they can maintain such an expansive empire. The bigger question is how they fall apart.
Rome and Carthage were allies during Phyrrus wars and had good relations until the punic wars
I think the most offensive a Spartan empire could get without collapsing would be Magna Graecia and Megali Greece.
Me who fantasized about a Spartan Empire way back in Middle School: "Oh yeah, it's all coming together."
Given that Spartan slavery was the most brutal system in the world, rivaled only by the Trans-Atlantic slave trade, I think under this scenario Philipos and Alexandros would legitimately be viewed as liberators by Hellenes and Persians alike.
Also, since you asked for scenarios, I've asked a number of Alternate History UA-camrs to do this one, but nobody has yet: What if the Jewish Khazars conquered Russia?
That’s wild, can you elaborate a bit more so I know how this would work
@@Videntis.History Oh wow, I actually got a response! Give me a minute to get my timeline straight.
@@Videntis.History So I'm sure you already know this, but for those who don't, the Khazars were a Turkic people from the steppes. One of their Khagans, a man named Bulan but also sometimes called Sabriel, converted to Judaism.
The Khazars dominated the northern black sea and the lucrative Silk Road trade through those ports. They enjoyed close relations with the Byzantine Romans, frequently fighting as allies against the Umayyad and Abbasid Caliphates. Emperor Leo IV of the Romans was even known as "the Khazar" for his heritage. Despite this, the Rus would eventually conquer their lands.
Sorry, I am fuming because I accidentally erased half my response. Going to half to break this up.
@@Videntis.History So, how do we prevent the collapse of Khazaria? First, it is know that the early Pagan Khazars practiced slavery, selling captives to Muslim traders. Whether this continued after conversion is unclear, but in our timeline we will definitively say that it is banned inn order to engender good will with their non-Turkish subjects, especially the Slavs.
Second, it is known that the Khazars were religiously tolerant even before their conversion and we will continue this trend. Jews, Christians, Muslims, and even Pagans of all descriptions would be accepted in Khazaria. Though it is likely that Jews would be favored for administrative positions, many Orthodox Christians would occupy prestigious roles in the Khazar courts and be granted favorable trade contracts in order to ensure continued good relations with the Romans and other Orthodox nations such as the Bulgars.
As for their Pagan subjects, I could see the Khagan developing his own brand of the Varangian Guard, though they would likely serve more as a border patrol than an elite corp, protecting Slavs on the western borders from tribes outside the empire or from Norse raiders. I could see a similar order being established along the eastern borders for the Muslims, though perhaps the Muslim border guard would be more reminiscent of the Caucasian Mamluks or Ottaman Turkish Janissaries, though I will leave that to your discretion.
With the collapse of the Umayyad Caliphate, the less expansionist Abbasids would have given the Roman-Khazar alliance time to focus on their western borders, and the persistent thorn in the side of the Romans, the Bulgars. In the real world, the Khazars had defeated the Bulgars in 668, driving them into the lands that would become Bulgaria. In our new timeline, we can say that the closer Roman-Khazar alliance negotiates a Bulgarian annexation towards the end of the eighth century.
In the real world, the Khazars would suffer a massive revolt in 830, as the early Magyars would ally with a faction of rival Khazar tribes known as the Khavars (A.K.A. Kabars, Qavars). This rebellion was crushed and the survivors fled west and went on to create the nation of Hungary. In our timeline, we will say that the response to the rebellion was less harsh, with the Khavars themselves being scattered across the border guard where they could be watched by more loyal subjects rather than being outright massacred. We will also have the Khagan grant the defeated Magyars permission to settle the Carpathian basin as prominent vassals. While this will undoubtedly generate tensions with the Romans, we will say that a compromise is reached allowing Orthodox priests to preach in Pagan territories of Khazaria, appeasing the emperor.
In the real world, Khazaria declined and collapsed in the Tenth century, as the Roman Khazar alliance dissolved and the Romans began advocating for the Khazars Alanic vassals to rise up against them, all while the growing power of the Rus were breathing down their necks. However, in our new timeline, with better defended borders, a more centralized administration focused around the Black Sea, and stronger Roman-Khazar relations, we will instead have it that the Khazars manage to conquer the growing power. This would be the golden age for Khazaria, becoming a second home for the Jewish diaspora in a way that even Andalusia never could. How the next two centuries unfold, I leave up to you, though I think it is likely that the Mongols would eventually conquer the Khazars.
Love your content man! Suggestion: What if Harold Godwinson defeated William of normandy and kept england in the hands of the saxons?
great idea
@@Videntis.History Thanks!
He'd probably had to have drawn Duke William into a standoff at a bridge like he did with King Harald 'Hardrada' of Norway.
Good idea, but, better yet, what if Hardrada became king? Another suggestion: What if China became Muslim and Japan Christian?
@@kuroazrem5376 In regards to Japan becoming Christian, there was a Daimyo of the Otomo Clan who became a Christian.
Love your work. My suggestion:
What if The Western Roman Empire was able to fortify the Italic homeland from barbarian invasion and keep out the barbarians? Retaining a unified Italy under a West Roman State.
P.S. They would still lose the rest of their empire, they just are able to hold onto their homeland.
Can’t wait for part 2. Keep up the great work. Peace ✌🏻
What if byzantine empire rocovered west!!
Very unlikely after Justinian
@@kenos911If the EASTERN ROMANS beat the Ottomans back and continued on to Iraq they could have broken the Turks/Persians and continued using this momentum to conquer Syria and the Balkans just like the Ottomans did and possibly reconquer north Africa just like the Ottomans did, and possibly conquest Arabia just like the Ottomans did
With more support from Wallachia and the other Christians up north, rather than having a Dracula they could possibly move on to conquer Austria instead in a few centuries after African reconquest
With this just as the Ottomans said, Italy would be open to conquest.
These conquest are all realistically possible if you ask me.
@@randomguy6152 It’s not realistic without major European help after 1204. The 4th crusade was a devastating blow for the byzantines, and they never recovered in terms of dynastical or administrative stability past that point. Unless some legendary ruler comes along, I doubt they could defeat the ottomans, even when they were a small beylik (keep in mind, they were really skilled, and being hired by several major players such as france). Depending on what time frame, the ilkhanate, which historically won against the byzantines, would have to lose so they gain iraq. Not exactly possible unless another major crusade happens, which, given that Byzantium is orthodox, not really likely.
Also, conquering the hre I would be very, very hard without Allies like france, which would probably want some of Italy anyway. Maybe a possible personal Union between the two happens? Idk man…
The most sucessful Byzantine alt hits imo would be if Irene of Athens married the holy Roman emperor. This was something considered in real life, and might have been successful if stabilized. This was also before the split off between Catholics and orthodox, so no problems there until 3 more rulers
Another idea, what if the eastern roman empire fell instead of the west that would live on.
@@copperpolice9650 That's a cool idea, but the thing is you would have to change some really big things about the terrain or economics of the Eastern Empire that it would spiral beyond just the point of the East falling instead. Like I'm talking removing entire mountain ranges or changing the economic viability of areas that played a huge role in the ancient world, stuff like that would spiral history so much Rome may have never existed in the first place. Then again, very little amounts of Alternate history are really realistic at all so it's still a neat concept.
The battle between Sparta and Macedon is an interesting one, but i think its very complex to decide who would come out on top:
It all comes down to a few things.
a) How do they reorganize their internal issue you briefly touched on?
b) How does sparta deal with their Persian conquests?
c) What about their relations within greece and their foreign allies?
d) Would Philip and Alexander be ACTUALLY scared shitless of sparta this time? (Supposedly philip didnt go after sparta because he was "scared" of their might, however thats debatable, as sparta was weak as fuck at that point)
e) What did sparta do within greece until then?
I'll go through every point one by one and why its important.
a) Depending on how its organized, it may mean various groups may be more or less likely to rebel. Ie if Sparta goes "Dorians are rulers, other greeks are allowed to exist, and everything else is a slave" that means that their entire Asian holdings will constantly rebel. If however they are a bit less xenophobe, and more practical (ie "Spartans are the only group that can serve within the highest roles, Dorians are "Rulers", Greeks are Citizens, Persians are Freedmen, select groups are Helots, with serving within the Spartan army being able to classify you as the next higher group"), then it is POSSIBLE that the Spartan Empire may be extremely strong in comparison to the first option.
b) As said above, having an unruly Asia means that they are a paper tiger, and ultimately poised to loose that war. I think if Sparta were to "Hellenize" the regions they may see an increased chance in winning against Macedon.
c) If sparta is known in the greek world as an oppressor, then it would easily turn into another Corinthian war. If they however treat other greeks like equals, then its more likely that greece would fight together with sparta, or atleast not turn on them. Same is true for their allies: Good relations = easier time in the war, etc etc.
d) The reason this is important is due to timing. One of the main reasons alexander was able to shit on Persia so massively wasnt just because "haha godlike general", but philip II did an important job in preparing macedon to become one of the strongest powers in Europe at the time. Couple that with a REALLY good General, and you get the Alexandrian Empire we got. However if Philip doesnt get to do all that prep work, alexander has a worse deck of cards. Now what decides wether or not philip does the prep (in this case, a small scale skirmish against the spartans)? Wether or not he thinks he can defeat them. If he thinks he cant beat sparta, macedon may be set on a path of northern conquest, or being a major player within greece, but it wont be as strong as OTL.
e) This is important for a multitude of reasons. If sparta decides to form a "Federation" of sorts, there would be an incredible amount of strength there. Macedon would also have less cracks they could expoit within the spartan empire. Alternatively, if Sparta decides to "ignore" greece, the inverse will be true: Macedon has more openings and sparta is weaker overall.
Now, is it impossible for Macedon to beat a Sparta which has the optimum outcome in all of the above? ABSOLUTELY *NOT*. Alexander was still a MASTER general, and one of the BEST leaders in all of history. However the more criteria sparta fulfills the better that war would turn out for them.
Those are some really good points and factors, since it's alternate history we can't really tell but there are a lot of ways and can come out
Oh and btw about Philip invading Sparta if im right he did invade it in our timeline and didn't completely conquer it but reduced it to it's initial extent and Sparta did not want to join and be annexed by the Macedonians
The Spartans would win with the help of their allies and might be the ones to unite Greece and have Sparta form a Greek Empire, with the Spartan king becoming the first Basileus.
( Emperor) of the Greeks, similar to what Augustus did in Rome. But this is a great video, Mr. Videntis. Please keep up the great work, and remember what anybody says, no matter what happens. Always stay true to yourself and believe what you believe in, making you unique. Thank you for creating this fantastic content. I really mean it! Also, what do you think of these suggestions for future videos? What if the death and exile of Catherine of Aragon sparked a war between the Kingdom of England and the Holy Roman Empire because of a rumor Catherine was poisoned? Also, Catherine is the aunt of Charles V of the Holy Roman Empire, for Charles was the son of Joanna the Mad Castile, who happens to be Catherine's sister.
What if the Mauryan Empire survived Ashoka the Great by not making Buddhism the main religion but balancing his policy? What if the Mauryans had to conquer Macedonia, and what if one of the Mauryan Empire conquered Persia and became a superpower in South Asia?
What if the North Sea Empire survived, wholly united the English Isles and Ireland, and made the Empire more imperial?
What if the Ottomans Won the Battle of Ankara? Not only did they win the battle of Ankara, but what if the Ottomans had managed to conquer the Timurid Empire and hold onto Persia? With Persia under the Ottomans' control, the Ottomans would have to conquer Constantinople much earlier. The Ottomans could have a foothold in India, and this could the Mughal Empire not exist because the Mughals were descendants of Timurid and the Mongols themselves.
What if Japan won the Imjin War with Oda Nobunaga, surviving his assassination attempt on his life but becoming the first Shogun of Japan, and what if Japan conquered Korea and the whole of Ming China? Would Japan become a significant power in East Asia?
Which of these scenarios do you like best, Mr. Videntis? Which five of them are your favorites? Any thoughts, comments, and opinions about these ideas?
Very interesting scenario! Also beautiful map!
thanks so much
@@Videntis.History you deserve it man 👍
@@Videntis.History Excellent work. Generally was extremely difficult for Spartans to hold a territory bigger than Minor Asia
for me I would love to see more "dynamic" scenarios in your videos that dosent have one side exclusively winning just for flavour i would like to see perhaps battles the triumphant side lost or perhaps in the scenerio the blunders which were made.
yeah thats the script for part 2, things wouldnt go so good for the spartans
Stayed up late to see the premiere! No regrets, it was very interesting!
What time is it there?
Here in the Midwest of the USA it’s around 5 pm
Here its 12 am
@@vihanuyyuru6 here its 6:30 pm
Now this is a what if scenario I had never considered!
I love when my favorite alt history UA-camrs hang out together it’s nice to see you guys ☺️
0:56 Major power again 🫡
Another great vid. Another good one would be what if Belisarius never invaded Italy and therefore didn't waste his army on useless wars
Can’t believe you made it this far, I was here since 13 subscribers🎉❤
I DONT UNDERSTAND HOW YOU ARENT GAINING MORE VIEWS THESE VIDEOS ARE SOOOOO GOOD
Love ya man, Never going to stop supporting you❤❤❤
your one of the ogs
@@Videntis.History What if the Duchy of Burgundy survived (and the house of Valois so they can’t take the throne of France)
Alexander would crush the Spartans, and, even if he didn't, Sparta wouldn't survive due to its "unique" system.
Great video
Suggestion:What if Novgorod survived?
I had a cake for my bday with map and you’re background as you’re one of my fav youtubers
I do not actually believe Alexander would be nearly the rival of Sparta as he was to Persia, the Spartans would not be barbarians to him, they would have a lot of cultural kinship and he would probably be able to recognize the powerhouse a sparta with that much territory would be and dedicate more to Thrace and Dacia's subjugation.
A good idea is what if the Western Roman Empire survived maybe only holding on to italy and other territories there so much that could happen and it would be interesting if the western roman empire would survive until the times of the Muslim conquest and what would happen after this is only my version and idea of what if though.
Can you make a what if Persia survived a video? instead of them getting destroyed each time lol 😂
Awesome, will there be second part?
Will you make part 2?
This. Is. SPARTA
If Sparta manages to get their forces together from their vast empire without any additional aggressor and they get Egypt in the war they can win
Great video, love the animations!
Thanks a bunch!
I freaking love these videos, I dont have any ideas yet but ill lets you know if i have any
W video
LOVE the map!
Was this A re-upload. I'm sure it was, but I don't know if im just crazy
W video!
personally, I think the battle between Sparta and Macedonia would be too close to call due to the other Greek towns and areas joining with Mace to grow stronger and bigger although the battle will be hard because Sparta is 10 times bigger than in our timeline and actually having strong allies.
Rome a potential wildcard too. not very strong at that moment but highly militant and could cause issues for either cartage or saracuse
@@theblackmailguy875 thats true and if sparta needed to send more troops to Italy could also make them weaker
@warsawpactmapping83 people always seem to forget that Rome even back then had advantages against Greeks. the Romans had more mobile formations and the aera around Rome itself is not flat giving Rome a great advantage
nice vid
I believe with the help of there two powerful allies and the experience of ruling, there empire should last thousands of years. I also believe that the Spartans would destroy Alexander. Especially if spartas allies join in, then theres no chance of a victory for Alexander
Hey man can you do if the Phrygians lived on to the modern day?
That’s very niche but I will add it to the list
How do you create your videos I’m very curious
Message me on discord if u want an in depth answer
@@Videntis.History 👍👍
What if the British stuck with the Ḥusayn-McMahon correspondence after ww1 or what if the Ottoman Empire won at the battle of vienna
Macedonia wins easily, but they may not get as much land as they did in our timeline. The former Persian lands would most likely revolt, and lands closer to Aegean would stay loyal. This would possibly create a new Corinthian War, now involving Macedonia, possibly securing the end of Sparta's Empire.
Sparta would actually lose way quicker than Persia did against the Macedons since Persia in our OTL was stronger than this version of Sparta.
Yeah good point
@@Videntis.History now that I think about it, can you make a part 2 of this?
Great video! I have a suggestion: What if King John of England converted to Islam. King John is the king after Richard the lionheart.
Have a weird Alternate History
`What if Commodiana Empire Survive"
If Commodus lived out his rule
-Commodus would have order an expansion of Germania going all the way to modern day Szczecin and as south as Prague.
By 221 he would have been 60 and would have had 3 kids with Bruttia Crispina, ( Commodus II , Lucia , Serena )
and will pass away in 233 with Commodus II taking the throne.
He be 51 and wanted to fix get rid of the senate but fail instead he burn the Curia and killed all the senators.
By 236 Commodus II will pass away by 54, and his 26 year old daughter Caecilia will take the throne.
Her rain will be better than the last two emperors. She be the ruler to take down Aksum. By 261 Gallic Empire was form and Caecilia order a huge force to take down but Tetricus I survive and even made a run for Britain. And then Palmyrene Empire broke off from the Commodiana Empire, and it look like the empire was going to collapse but out of no where Sasanian Empire destroyed the state and added to there empire. By this point Caecilia would have been 58, and died from stress made her soon Alexander her successor
Alexander would have take back Germania, Gaul , Hispania but not Britannia. His rule would see the end of the civil war era and will pass the throne to his daughter Diana would take rain for 14 years until she step down in 317 due to health and would make her brother Hadrianus emperor, by then he would have taken what the Sasanians took during the civil war era. 336 and we would have seen
Commodus III to then his son Amulius became emperor in 370, By this Goths will attack Crimea and move to Moesia.
After Amulius comes Isidorus in 409, then Valerius 437 where by 450s Huns where attacking modern day Romania and Attila would take over what is Ukraine, Romania, Hungary, Slovakia ,Austria and parts of sothern Germania.
500s
Commodiana Empire would be similar to what Justinian dynasty had but with more of Gaul and Hispania. By 700s Commodiana Empire would be spilt in 5
Constantin Empire, Egyptian Republic, Carthage Kingdom, Kingdom of Italy, Kingdom of Hispania,.
I like the Spartans, but I prefer Alexander and the Macedonians.
Suggestion: What if the Mongol invasion of Japan was successful.
can you do what if napoleon III never took power in france
What if mark Antony won the last war of the Roman republic against Octavian gaius Julius Caesar?
Can you make one that is "What if the British defeated the American Revolution?"
No shot this happens. The Spartans were notorious for how poorly they treated the helots. Also werent they outnumbered 10 to 1 in their home city state by said helots?
I feel like i already saw this
What if the Conquistadors, the brothers of Pizarro had won independence from Spain in 1550's?
The fact this society still inspires people is terrifying. Thanksfully this never happened.
Your personality is weak brother.
The system of rule and education in Sparta is unique. This system made the Spartans one of the greatest and strongest warriors, and through their epic victories and their mentality they became legends. The best example of this is the great hero Leonidas of Sparta with his 300 Spartans and their Greek soldiers. Their spirits still walk the Thermopylae where they died an honorable death to prevent Sparta or all of Greece from becoming slaves to the Persians. The system was brutal, yes. But it was efficient and made Spartan boys into great warriors who were not afraid to die. Who are not effeminate like people today. And you are probably one of them.
A certain angry bald war god would be very proud 😅
What if France won the Italian wars. POD is Gaston de Foix surviving the battle of Ravenna.
please do what if the german empire was formed in 1849
if sparta had a good manpower pool with same training, they could very easily adapt to counter macedonian phalanxes and win, albeit at the cost of a permanently multi-ethnic army
The point is that the Spartans brutally enslaved the helots, who were people from the Peloponnese, while the Greek city-states took their slaves by boat from various corners of the Mediterranean,the Spartans Slaved the Helots,Which limited the growth of the real Spartans to just the city of Sparta and some lands around it, the rest 80% of Sparta was helot, which made the Spartans always keep half of the army in home to avoid a revolt
Maybe if the Spartans used a system more like servitude instead of brutal slavery And also recruiting them as reserves and support, it could improve
Spanish and portuguese union part 2 when?
Is It unthinkable an Alliance between Rome and Macedon to take down Sparta or not?
Yes, that would never be possible. Because the Romans wanted revenge for Troy. Just as we Italians see the city of Rome as the mother of our nation. That it gave us and other Latin-Romance peoples beautiful languages. So the Romans saw the city of Troy as their mother. That comes down to the story of how Aeneas and his Trojans managed to escape from Troy after its destruction. So Aeneas went on a similar wandering journey to Odysseus. Until he finally ended up in Italia with the Latin king. He was allowed to marry his daughter. And the Trojans and Latins lived together. His son was called Iullus in Latin. He was said to be the progenitor of the patrician Iulii family, whose most famous representative is Gaius Iulius Caesar the Great. Further in this line, Rex Romulus, the builder and founder of the city of Rome, was also in this line of Iullus and Aeneas. The story of the destruction of Troy has been told time and again in Rome. Even though the Romans had great respect for Greek culture and the Greeks. And one can clearly see the cohesion of the Greco-Roman culture through inspiration and shared history. The Romans wanted to take revenge on the Greek city states. And they conquered them very brutally.
This would inevitably collapse but I think it would still leave a strong Spartan remnant Kingdom, probably keeping most of southern Greece and a large portion of Anatolia one that might be pressured to finally reform some of there more unstable practices.
As for Macedonia Sparta would not be so weak or unstable yet to lose but I dont see them fully conquering Macedonia either though I can see them subjugating them as a vassal of some variety.
What if Crassus conquered Persia
What if the British Empire turned the nation of Argentina into a Dominion ?
What if the papal state remade the western roman empire in 700 A.D
What if Mauryans never collapsed?
What if Antiochus the Great defeated the Romans?
What if the vikings Successfully conquered wessex
C9ntents good but it's hard to keep attention.
Any ideas on how up improve that
@@Videntis.HistoryI love it the way it is. P.S Video Idea, What if the Soviets won the cold war...?
@@Videntis.History i would say add something to keep our short attention spans. Small jokes or something like that
What if England conquered France?
A Greek State conquering all of Persia? Come on now these alternate histories scenarios are getting a little too outrageous to be believed.
Macedonia?
Yeah imagine that actually happening right🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
@@allstarlord9110Macedonia unified Greece and had a real Military genius
@@AlexandristheGreat Yeah I know
With Iranian help, sparta could defeat athenians, them here sparta conquered persia🤡 like when romans with help of vandals defeated Iranians in time of great King of kings Khosrow the firtsr, immortal judgementaller soul
😂
But Sparta did conquer Persia, what are we even doing here, those athenians had to cow down behind the spartans who build the wooden wall and won at Plataea.
Sparta🗿 athens👎
Ofc it's the fortnite pfp saying that
Bruh Sparta literally accepted persian money to Win the war