The Battle of Thermopylae - The Hellenic Alliance - Part 1 - Extra History
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- Опубліковано 23 лип 2024
- 📜 The Battle of Thermopylae, Part 2: A small handful of Grecian city-states have come together to stand off against the invading Persians at Thermopylae. At this fateful mountain pass, Greece will discover its identity as a nation.
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Part 1 - • The Battle of Thermopy...
Part 2 - • The Battle of Thermopy...
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The Battle of Thermopylae is one of the most significant events in the ancient world-and also one of the least understood.
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Extra Credits are you going to finish the math series
Can you do more on African and MesoAmerican, the ones you already did are so good and I need more
Extra Credits have you guys read the book Day of Empire by Amy Chua? If you haven't, then I suggest you do. The 1st chapter of her book is about the Achaemenid Empire's rise and fall. Just as the Athenians did start the idea of democracy, but still had slaves, and didn't allow women to vote or most men for that matter, the Persians weren't squeaky clean themselves.
Extra Credits want a fact? There weren't only the 300 Spartans but 700 thesprotes (do not know the exact translation from Greek to English) that were the ones that did not flee when Leonidas told everyone that if they want to leave they must do it then and that he would stay and fight knowing it was a lost fight
excavations at Sparta and the so-called hill where supposedly the children were thrown have proven that the myth of this practice
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Freedom, you say? ;)
Ah, the three hundred. And their 6700 allies
Zanar Naryon 1300.
No,they were 6700.1300 stayed with spartans after persians found other way throu montauns and were going to encircle them.
Azrail Y thats what i meant regarding the correlation with the movie.
well the name: About 7,000 we Don't Know for Certain, More or Less Depending on the Day, didn't make the cut
Zanar Naryon no one mentions the shield bearers or slaves as part of the fabled 300.
Me: So wait, one more time, how can you justify slavery?
Sparta: in order to give us the free time to devote our lives to the military
Me: and why do you need to do that?
Sparta: I told you already, because we need to be ready in case of a slave revolt. What, are you slow or something?
I wonder if they ever realized the juicy irony of their society of warriors that existed to mainly suppress the slaves and underclass of their society.
There are way too many words in that Spartan sentence
True Spartan: We. Fight. Kill. Enslave. Kill
To be fair, that’s not why they justified slavery
@@juanferrer5924 enlight us
I love how ' Shut up and pay your taxes ' is such a theme thoughout history
how else would you run a country then.
Teamwork makes the dream work.
The greatest slavery of all
Taxes
You should do a series on Wu Zetian and the sultanate of women especially about Hurrem , Kosem ...
@@matthewdoherty803 Lol no
Xerxes is too short. Where's my golden 9ft God-man? 0/10.
This was Rise of an Empire Xerxes, before he went in that water.
Makes sense. Will be good to see him next week.
No, that was *Sexrex*
He was apparently 7ft tall
This is one of the few, rare times where somebody has actually depicted Persia realistically and not as the "blood-sucking demons" everybody else has in mind for some reason.
Its because of the movie
Because the movie was based off of Herodotus' recounting of History, so bias and add in some extra flair to the greeks
To be fair cutting off the head of the spartan king as a war trophy probably didint do them any favors.
So they are like ottomanss?
@@seymentheboss5194 im sorry wat the @#£&
The Greeks definitely had a joint ethnic identity prior to Thermopylae- the Olympic Games held since 776 BCE which were strict in only allowing those with Greek heritage to participate demonstrate this.
Yes but they didn't saw themselves as the same people. They still viewed the each other as different city states only loosely connected by Geography and Cultural similarities. It's like Saying that Modern Humans saw themselves as a single identity of people because of the World football Cup or the Modern Olympic games, when they didn't. We see ourselves as one Human race(not always), but from different political,cultural,religious,ideological and linguistically. You should watch Crash course history, it can help you to understand, because you made a mistake here.
+Yuwan Neither the World Football Cup nor modern Olympic Games are ethnically exclusive though. The Greeks of course did not see themselves as a united political entity but they did recognize themselves as a singular people united by a common language, hence why people like the Illyrians who geographically bordered the Greeks were not treated with the same sort of familiarity as they treated each other. An example of the sort of courtesies the Greeks extended to each other was in warfare, in which when one army began to flee the other would not pursue them in a route as to minimize casualties on the other side. In battles in which the Greeks were fighting non-Greeks however they would extend no such courtesy and would pursue the fleeing army to inflict as many casualties as possible. Btw, Crash Course history is also notoriously innaccurate and the host John Green has no degree in history to speak of so I wouldn't site him as a credible source. If you need to I can go into a list about the various inaccuracies I've noticed in his videos but I would prefer not to waste my time.
@@lloydbautista2055 can you recommend a better, more accurate channel my dude? Historia civilis?
@@sleazymeezy Historia Civilis is pretty good. Even better I recommend Historyden, although he is pretty dry so I understand that he's really not for everyone. A lot of times though you have to sacrifice entertainment for accuracy; the most popular history channels are rarely the most accurate.
Lets not confuse American idea of nation with rest of the world idea of nationality and kinnship
Actually, from what I was taught at University, the notorious baby-killing may have been done in Archaic times, but it was probably symbolic by the time Persia came knocking. The Spartans did something to commemorate killing babies, or symbolically selected the weak as non-Spartans, but didn't actually kill them.
Cool, one thing to take off the list of dozens of affronts to humanity that the Spartans committed.
@@TheGallantDrake"affronts to humanity"
By our modern extremely advanced standards that we can afford in a much safer society where survival is guaranteed and most of us are spoiled soft brats because we don't have to get tougher.
In a militaristic society with barren lands, and therefore limited resources, like the one the Spartans started with, absolutely not. With scarce resources and the need for strength, resources spent on raising a weakling would be a waste and a disservice to the rest of the community. Naturally, as Spartan society became wealthier, they abandoned this primitive custom.
Besides, it's not like killing children, mainly because you don't want to have another mouth to feed, has ever gone out of fashion, as that's what most abortions until the 19th century were about. So, we just got better at preventing the birth of unwanted children. Who knows, maybe in 500 years they'll have found a 100% foolproof contraceptive, society will be much safer and even more comfortable, and people will look back on abortion as an "affront to humanity".
P.S.: By the way, I'm pro -choice.
Spot the eugenicist
Why let a few wars get in the way of a good alliance
-France and Britain, signing the Triple Entente
i dont get why poeple find it weird for france and Britain(england) teaming up they have done it before in several cases.
England->is invaded and conquered by vikings and Normandy. England and France->100 years war. England and France->rival colonial powers. England and France->Napoleonic Wars. Could you tell me when they teamed up in a significant way before the Triple Entente? Even then, I think the sheer number of wars that they've been through makes it understandable why people think them being allies is weird.
it just that poeple make it sound like its the first time. even after the 100 years war.
secret treaty of dover.
Damn was just gonna post that lol *steals anyway*
I think there is something wrong with your depiction of Greek bodies...
The Spartans aren’t all topless to show off their abs.
Spartans were pretty uncovered, they typically wore either a light tunic or full-battle dress. By the Peloponessian war the only armor Greeks wore into battle were greaves and a helmet. Also only the slaves and exhausted child were depicted topless. Everyone else wore typical tunics or full armor.
Dylan Houlihan you could say their wardrobes were Spartan! Sorry
AllFlabNoAb
Actually Spartan woman practiced sport topless, to the horror of the rest of Greece.
Filimon Prig, Don't take things so literally. This is just my humble contribution to the longstanding tradition of making 300 references at anything Spartan related; mixed in of course with a little bait and switch regarding the numerous comments about the skin color of the Greeks.
Don't let this video distract you from the fact that we still haven't gotten a Cyrus the Great video
(That comment was mostly a joke I love this series)
Now I want to see an Extra History series on ancient Persia.
So in short, 300 is about as historically accurate as Braveheart.
Did William Wallace face warriors riding rhinos?
Patrick Reding well, 300 was based off the graphic novel of the same name.
Except for their outfits, those are 100% accurate. Everyone went to war topless in those days.
+Patrick Reding Less. Braveheart is incredibly inaccurate, but.... it doesn't have goat people, orcs, or giants
Difference being it doesn't try to be a historical movie, so it's not a problem.
And Leonidas and his 300 Spartans *and other 6 thousand Greek soldiers* would fight them in land.
Dom's Place I hope they clear that mistake in the next video
i bet they will
Against how many Persians?
PaMaK I don't think it is entirely confirmed by historians. I have seen 10,000,100,000, and even around a million for the Persian numbers
Nicholas Roberts So people care about how many were the Greeks instead of the Persians who were ALOT. Thats some hypocricy right there.
I'm going to miss you Dan. I really learned a lot from this channel thanks to you and the crew. I hope you have good luck in your next endeavor.
What happened to him?
@@roberth2833 I believe he went off and made his own channel
oh yes, the only extra cedits voice that feels right
Yesnt
Yep
Ja
Nah
The theatre at Korinth is wrong. Greeks at that time did not have a scene. It was also built into the mountain not from the bottom up. That is a roman theatre.
Came to the comments to say this, but you beat me to it. Internet high five!
@@josuecallejero9864 m
8:39
Persian emperor: I am your king!
Greeks: I didn't vote for you.
Greeks: We are an anarcho-syndicalist commune.
Holy Grail reference. Good on you.
I thought we were an autonomous collective.
BIoody heIot!
Strange hoplites lying in barracks distributing spears is no basis for a system of government!
"distributing spears"
“Persia the greatest empire the world has ever seen.”
-Roman empire *gets up from chair* “alright bois someone hold my beer”
*British Empire has joined the game.*
rome stood on the shouldlers of greece and persia... thats how there so great they took from them and perfected logistics and ya romans are dank
**The Macedonian Empire Has Joined The game**
Attila: so you have chosen death
Roman empire was smaller than the Persian Empire. Do your fucking homework
2:18 Ehhh... this is really exaggerated. Seems like it comes from certain Roman writers who lived quite a bit after Sparta stopped existing, at a time that the Romans looked back on the Spartans as a sort of romantic ideal and exaggerated their features (*cough* Plutarch *cough*).
Spartan society remains pretty mysterious due to our lack of primary sources (mainly just Xenophon). There's no doubt Spartan society was very militaristic, but we don't know to what exact extent the second-hand Roman accounts are exaggerated, just that there are too many contradictions to not take them with a pinch of salt.
-The whole "Spartan eugenics" thing... The children weren't killed if they failed the inspection by the elders. Instead, they would be "exposed", meaning they are left on their own on the mountainside for a set period of time. If they die during that time, then they're dead. If they survived, then they've proven they're strong enough and get to live as full citizens.
This practice was fairly common throughout the ancient world. Including Athens.
Note also:
---Spartan king Agesilaus II is known to have been lame from birth but quite obviously wasn't killed as an infant.
---With the manpower problems the Spartiates faced (what with being an oppressive minority that had enslaved the native population of its own country and all), extreme pickiness doesn't make a whole lot of sense either.
---The chasm some claim the elders outright threw the imperfect kids into as an execution has only revealed adult remains, suggesting it was an execution site for criminals instead.
-The agoge certainly was militaristic but by no means entirely. They were also educated culturally (reading, writing, music etc) and socially. We can probably thank the Romans and their fanboyism of Spartan masculinity for distorting the image a bit, here.
-Spartan military quality is another thing prone to exaggeration, though still very impressive. The Greeks as a whole produced the best heavy infantry of the world at a time and the Spartans were the best among them, but the Spartans were not so far ahead of the other Greeks as it's often made to seem. They did suffer their share of defeats.
-The exact treatment of helots is very disputed as well, though certainly the Spartans were (whether or not it was exactly as cruel as some sources make it out) indeed constantly busy keeping them subdued hence the militaristic society.
8:46 Heh, well, the Athenians did a little more than just that. They burned down Sardis, the nearby Persian "provincial capital" in western Anatolia. So that puts Darius' reaction a bit more into perspective. But I guess that had to be cut due to time restraints maybe, you're still essentially right.
9:09 The Spartans indeed didn't want to interrupt their religious festival, but they did send troops when the festival ended. They marched to Marathon at a ridiculously fast pace but still arrived a day late.The Athenians actually made the strange decision to attack before the Spartans had arrived, after they had already been waiting a few days and could have waited one more. But I guess that also couldn't be fit, again you're essentially right.
Great video though, just saying stuff because I happen to know it, not as a complaint. I guess this could be "lies" stuff but I'm not sure a miniseries like this will get a "lies" episode.
Does that "leaving by mountain side" apply to the royal lineage? Spartans believed the two royal families were descendants of Hercules and at most the current kings could be exiled but never killed right?
7:09 Uhhh... The Achemenid empire _did_ have slaves, though: they enslaved rebels and prisoners of war. What you guys probably mean is that they didn't have a slave based economy and slaves were a very small part of the population (especially compared to the Greek city-states)
One of the few civilizations that actually did not have slaves were the Spartans. The Helots were indeed forcefully subservient to the Spartans but they were not slaves. They couldn't just be sold off and they weren't outright owned by anyone.
Also Athens did not have a slave basic economy. The idea comes because almost all ancient civilizations are always compared to Rome but Rome was really more the exception than the rule regarding slavery.
Sounds like the Helots were state-owned slaves then. Which would make sense for a community-oriented society like Sparta.
Indeed. They are very similar to Medieval serfs though the serfs became it mostly voluntarily in return for protection. The Helots were bound to their land and were forbidden to leave. That land was owned not by the state though but by individual Spartans and they took all the produce. In return they had to give enough food back so that the helot would not starve and they also had to keep the helots in check.
However though the Spartan master owns the land he does not own the helots on that land directly. He also is not allowed to move the Helot from that land and if all the helots on the land die then the land is worthless. One thing that was allowed though is if the Helot population on the land increased too far the Spartan master was allowed to move his Helots to another patch of land from another Spartan. He was not allowed to ask for payment of that though from the master of the land the helots go and usually the Helots themselves were allowed to choose who would move to the new land.
A slave is officially a person who is owned by someone and the helots were not owned by anyone.
No, Zoroastrianism forbids slavery.
+marinus18
The serfs however, didn’t have war declared on them constantly, weren’t (usually) killed for no reason and the medieval ‚military‘ didn’t practice by strangling them.
Dear people who complain about the Greeks' skin colour,
War in this era happens in the summer, and Greek soldiers train outside basically everyday. Greece is a very sunny place and as a Greek i can confirm that in the summer, many Greeks (lol not myself, i'm like of the whitest whites) achieve a tan of this colour. Stop beeing so butthurt.
Many Thanks.
Not to mention the Persians called themselves Aryans.
Also all of these comments talking about race like it's a 19th century lecture are more than just awful.
This should be pinned
General Geo it is wierd though because most other times they where much lighter skined,both greeks and persians
Greek comenter person Still, this depiction can't be considered inaccurate.
My problem is the nobles who stay inside all day.
Super hyped for this series! So many myths surrounding Thermopylai. Really intrested to see your take on it!
I find it weird that you depict ancient greecians as darker skinned than persians. As far as I know, they were a mixture of the remnants of ancient Myceneans with outside people that came from the north (leaving their pantheon as a curious mixture of Mycenean gods with northern gods that consolidated and became its own thing).
that was probably the artists choice, not the narrator or writers
@@lord_ozymandias never said otherwise.
@@jorgelotr3752 i know but the second person pronouns kinda indicates u thought this was the fault of all the crew involved lol
Ancient Greeks lived outside in the beating Mediterranean sun, what do you expect? Persians don’t live in the Mediterranean sun.
@@IronpenWorldbuilding and Persians are actually Caucasian, as I understand it...
Really happy to see that Dan is finishing up his time as Extra's voice with some _really_ stellar stuff. What a fitting send off for him to explore one of the most iconic struggles in ancient history. 😊 I'm loving this to no end!
always love the different view of historical events. keep up the good work
The most unbiased description of the events I have heard thus far! Thank you!
Extra History, the only series where I go "Yay, I'm so excited that there is a new Extra History series on [x]" where I have no clue what [x] actually is.
Extra History, the only series where I go "Yay, Euclidean mathematics." in a non-ironic manner.
I go excited when I hear/see SWEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDDDDEEEEENNNNNNNNNN
Dude, y u no know thermopoley?
Riad al-Assad /MappingArm/ I do know it, but I didn't know that that was how it was spelled. Also that statement applies to like 90% of this series, so I feel like it still applies
Well, phonetically it sounds like "Thermopules", which after some old Greek linguistic shenanigans could probably be bastardized into "Thermoplyae".
I say this from scraps of Ye Olde Greek language lessons though, so take it with a few pints of salt.
There was a third social Class under Spartan Rule, the Perioci/ Perioeci. They were free People, non-citizens who lived in the Settlements around Sparta. They farmed the Land, practiced various craftmanships, like Pottery, tailoring and Carpentry, production of weapons and armours and they also formed the backbone of the Spartan/ Lacodaimonian Army in the later years of the Terretory under spartan Rule.
In a little over ten minutes, this video has taught and entertained me more than a certain film that told a version of these events. Keep up the great work.
I have a suggestion for a future Extra History if I may. The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.
HenshinFanatic.
I Need This!!!!!!!!
HenshinFanatic ThrashingMadPL might do that as well, since he's covering the History of Poland from the Arrival of Slavs and Balts in Eastern Europe to today.
I second this
Definitely 👍
Wait, are you saying Frank Miller lied to me? Im shocked. Did the Spartans at least wear no body armor and kick messengers into giant holes?
-there were time periods when Spartan hoplites didn't use body armour, to allow for a faster-moving fighting doctrine. Leonidas and his 300 dudes wore armour, though.
-they did kick messengers down the well, but _Darius'_ messengers, not Xerxes'.
-so, both yes and no, I guess.
ArkadiBolschek what about Cyclops shock troopers and rhino mounts?
Did Persia have a belly dancing god king?
I know this was a joke, but I feel like it could do with some clarification considering the follow up comment. The first 300 is a story being told by a man who is exceptionally good at telling stories. He's demonizing the enemy to get his soldiers ready for battle.
That said, if the second movie is any indication, the unpublished sequel will kick sand in that, but isn't that 100% in character with Frank Miller?...
Ander Malaby Oh, of course! That part of the film is spot on ^^
Dunno. I assume they didn't just leave the corpses to rot down there, but who knows with these guys. The Athenians just threw them down a ravine.
I'm glad you talked about the plight of the Helots. I've always had a problem with people who thought Spartan Society was 'good'. It was built on cruel, brutal slavery and a complete lack of value on human life.
Alex Xavier Steel - D Oh, and where do you think the origin of Southern police are in the US? They were just as terrified of a slave revolt and we're just as brutal and totalitarian as the Spartans were towards the Helots. Someone had to guard the state and plantation owners against that and they invented police forces to do so, including in the cities where slaves were rented out as industrial slaves.
Robert Jarman
Which is kind of ironic, considering we think of the Persians as brutal slavers.
Oh, this fits well with denying the obsession with the Atlantic Slave Trade being by far the worst thing in history from the Mali series.
Robert Jarman that’s quite a simplification. Southern police forces may have dealt with slaves on occasion, but law enforcement of everyone was always their main concern, just like their Northern and Western counterparts. Police departments have their roots in lots of places that go back thousands of years. Heck, just to make the relationship between slaves and police more complicated, Athens used slaves as police.
In short, police forces far precede American slavery, and indeed America itself. Which makes sense, as their primary function isn’t to oppress slaves, but deal with criminals, which have always existed.
aantony2001
Whose obsession? The Europeans and Americans?
Video far better and more accurate than what i expected. Keep up the good work!
hhhh
Your presentation and points are very clear. Thanks for this excellent work.
Next do Alexander the Great. Your Greece stuff is awesome and a long Justinian-like series about Alexander would be awesome to see
Arcen it wouldn’t be that long, Alexander died young
Darth1nsidious7 yeah but he was conquering for 13 years. That series could easily be 6 episodes. E1: perhaps some backstory E2:Alexander's early life E3: Early Conquests E4-6 the conquering years
I've seen some videos about Alexander by some other UA-camr, they covered some neat details.
The short story is Alexanders Father spent most of his life preparing Macedon with soldiers and trained and equipped them for years.
Alexander rode them to victory, admittedly he was indeed a fairly competent leader and did pull off some miraculous victories.
Bazbattles if the name of the channel.
Yes, do Alexander Makedon
Episode 7 the break-up of his conquests, upon his death, into the three large areas each ruled by one of his generals. Thus forming the basis of future empires and really setting the stage for the dissemination of Greek ideas/culture to the world.
Many many years ago, when Persia came ashore
Heeding Leonidas' call, the spartans went to war
Joined by their brothers, a few against the fateful horde
Hellenic hearts are set aflame, the hot gates calls their name
A final stand, stop the persians, spear in hand
Form a wall, live to fall, and live forever
[Chorus]
Sparta! Hellas!
Then, and again. Sing of three hundred men
Slaughter! Persians!
Glory and death, spartans will never surrender
[Verse]
Morning has broken, today they're fighting in the shade
When arrows blocked the sun they fell, tonight they dine in hell
By traitor's hand, secret passage, to their land
Know his name, know his shame will last forever
[Chorus]
Sparta! Hellas!
Then, and again. Sing of three hundred men
Slaughter! Persians!
Glory and death, spartans will never surrender
[Guitar Solo]
[Chorus]
Sparta! Hellas!
Then, and again. Sing of three hundred men
Slaughter! Persians!
Glory and death, spartans will never surrender
I see you are a man of culture as well.^^
LONG LIVE SABATON!!!
Good, I see that there are still people of culture in this dark and barbaric world
Rudy Sanchez long paragraph
I'm not normally one to enjoy slaughtering my own, however I WILL DO IT FOR THIS SONG.
Yay, Sabaton!
But really, fuck the Spartans though.
Totalitarian slavering bastards.
Many many years ago
When Persia came ashore
Hearing Leonidas' call
The Spartans went to war
Joined by the brothers
A few against the faithful hoard
Hellenic hearts are set aflame, the hot gates calls their name
@@przemekbiaek2698 A FINAL STAND, STOP THE PERSIANS SPEAR IN HAND!
@@sarpbakrsoy8125 form a wall never fall
@@brianstabile165 AND LIVE FOREVER!
I really love your content. Keep up the good work, guys!!!!
That feeling when your giant empire fails to invade a handful of city states
lol
Madness, this is madness!
THIS IS SPARTA!!!
*persian scrachting his head* i though we were in thermopylea
that's what happens when light infnatry used to wide open fields or low hills. Invades a area of high mountins and small fields. Also we tends to shit on persian military might. The battle that saw the greek liberated was actually a incredibly close affair and if the Persians commander hadn't fallen. The Persian would have won.
You were using the inferior siege engine, that's why.
Every one of these videos is a shining gem of both history and storytelling. I wish I didn't find this channel so soon so that I could just sit and binge on it's wonder rather than wait between videos.
Of course I'm kidding. You guys do amazing work, and I watch every video as soon as it comes out. Never stop.
I really appreciate the captions. Very polished and professional.
When talking about contemporary understanding of "slavery" it's interesting to note that for "greek" city states, the idea of paying taxes was considered a form of slavery. Which is why the persian satrapies that had to pay a tax to the king of kings were seen by the hellenes as being enslaved. At least that's one nuance to it.
Νικηφόρος Δ' What about the citizens of Eretria that were all enslaved and transferred to Asia as miners. Discovered with cut limbs by Alexander’s men and greeting each other in tears?
Or massacres at Ionian city states and Aegean islands?
They were asking the taxes, but had evidently proven the opposite was ruthless annihilation. That threat I call slavery.
If you speak only for the taxes you present them as a governing system only. Not as invaders and conquerors :p. They didn’t send tax collectors they send army to conquered Ionia and later on rest Greece.
I am pretty sure any human would be thinking and those “details” when considering if enslaved or not
"Taxation is slavery."
Fucking based.
@@basedimperialism I guess having no infrastructure, fire departments or social welfare is also "based" in that worldview.
It’s always so interesting how these ancient conquerors have such divergent reputations based on the geographical placement.
oh my god im so glad about this series i love this time period. Also I really want to see the campaigns of Cesar
Thank you for the code! I’ve been playing Total War Arena for some time and it is fun!
Yes! Glad you're finally talking about this
Im glad you guys didn't just show the Greek side and demonize the Persians like everyone else
Rick K
I mean every time I researched Sparta I got some serious Nazi Germany vibs
Rick K the Persians invaded because Athens sent support to revolting Ionic cities in persia.
Full 360? That would mean they returned to the original place.
Rick K how come?
Rick K wait, so if a nation supports a civil war inside another country, they shouldn't retaliate?
Spartan elder: this ones left hand isn’t as big as it’s right on...
Every single spartan in a 12 mile radius: YEET!
Keep doing you Extra Credits. Fantastic work.
So excited for the rest of this series.
"What happened to the warriors at Thermopylae?"
"Dead to the last man."
Good.
Spartan is the best heavy infantry in the ancient world...
Alexander's perfected phalanx : Hold my beer
That was Phillip's Phalanx that Alexander used. His specialty was cavalry
2:12 Being more extreme than impromptu shark riding is all well and good, but it was the "12" on the side that had me in stitches.
From all the Greeks watching your channel: σας αγαπάμε και σας ευχαριστούμε
Τι στον πούτσο μόλις διαλάλησες ρε μπουρδελάκι; 'Ασε με να σου μάθω το πως βγήκα το καμάρι του λόχου μου στην Ευελπίδων, και πως έχω εμπλακεί σε πολλαπλές καταδρομές ενάντια τρομοκρατών και αναρχομπάμπουρων με πάνω απο 300 επιβεβαιωμένες εκτελέσεις. Είμαι άρτια εκπαιδευμένος στην τέχνη του πολεμικού πιτόγυρου και είμαι ο καλύτερος ελεύθερος σκοπευτής σ'ολόκληρο τον στρατό ξηράς. Θα σε διαλύσω με ακρίβεια που δεν έχει ξαναεμφανιστεί σ'αυτόν τον πλανήτη, θυμήσου το αυτό. Νομίζεις οτι μπορείς να μου ξεφύγεις πετώντας μου μαλακίες μέσω του διαδικτύου; Για παρταλλιώς. Όσο μιλάμε τώρα, επικοινωνώ με το κατασκοπευτικό μου δίκτυο, στρατηγηκά τοποθετημένο σ'ολόκληρη την Ευρωπαϊκή 'Ενωση και ανιχνεύουμε το ΙΡ σου αυτήν την στιγμή, όποτε ετοιμάσου ρε αλητάμπουρα κεφτέ. Είσαι ήδη ψόφιος, αφού μπορώ να βρίσκομαι οπουδήποτε, πάντα. Μπορώ να σε τελειώσω με τουλάχιστον 700 τρόπους με τα γυμνά μου χέρια και μόνο. όχι μόνο μορώ να σε ακουμπήσω και να σε εξαϋλώσω ταυτοχρόνως, αλλά έχω και πλήρη δικαιοδοσία προς την χρήση ολόκληρου του στρατιωτικού εξοπλισμού των ενόπλων δυνάμεων και θα τον χρησιμοποιήσω στο έπακρόν του για να σ'εξαφανίσω απο αυτήν την ήπειρο, κουραδομαγκάκι. Αν μόνο ήξερες τι θα'φερνε η δήθεν εξυπνάδα σου, ίσως θα το'ραβες. Αλλά έλα που δεν ήξερες, έλα που δεν το'κανες, και έλα που θα το πληρώσεις ακριβά. Θα χέσω την οργή και τη νέμεση της Ελλάδος πάνω στο σκατό σου και θα πνιγείς υπο το μεγαλείο της. Την γάμησες, μαλάκα.
Είσαι εντάξει;
I know this is 2 years later but I just have to say as a Greek, we are not that tanned dude most Greeks are pretty pale, myself included
Lol
The Greeks of the modern age aren’t exactly the same as those thousands of years ago
do you think those ancient greeks stayed indoors like you?? of course not.
@@cocopus I’m not someone who stays indoors a lot and that’s still a huge exaggeration of what a tan can do, this is Greece we’re talking about not the Nile
THIS IS (a well-reasoned discussion on how Athens and) SPARTA (unified against a common enemy and established a Greek identity)!!!
chaoticcranium Didn’t the Olympics do that before them?
Yes I love you for this I can’t wait for more!
As always, an excellent episode!
So often, the background events that lead up to the "historical" one, get lost in the telling.
8:16
So efficient it brakes after death of the Alexander. Bravo!
THIS IS....
..something I've been waiting for! Yay! :D
Yes yes yes yes this is the best thing ever! Thank you so much!!
Just learned about this in school can't wait to see your explanation and series on it! Big FAN
Yay, Sparta and the 300*
*And the thousands of other Greeks
Can you please make something about Cyrus the great?
Can't wait for the next vid!
I love seeing how people with no visible arms look like when they fold their arms.
I watched a video that stated that the Spartans were actually not known to be exceptionally good warriors prior to Thermopylae. I think it said that the Thebians were actually the super warriors of the time and the Spartans created this myth about their superiority only after the battle. I did not research any of this myself, but the video seemed pretty well informed. If I find it again I'll update this comment, provided anyone gives a shit.
@MrMighty147 I think I saw the same video and was about to comment on it. I'm also pretty sure they didn't learn combat until adult life, although they did do physical training in school. So based from my understanding (could be wrong) I was a little disappointed about the description of their upbringing.
I have seen something of a similar fashion from numerous sources, I believe what you say is true.
ua-cam.com/video/hMQmU0epVr4/v-deo.html This might be the video you watched.
In truth, little is known about Hellas before the Persian wars. The ancient historians we know, didn't start writing before that period. The story starts with eh Mycenaeans being the power of the era. (Time of Troy)
Thebans only became mighty at the end of the Hellenistic period, when they defeated the Spartans. Just before Philip and Alexander came in
Alex Bankuti ah my mistake, although historical naming can be confusing. Greece was called Hellas, and the hight of the native Greek people was at the time of the Peloponnesian war. Hence I considered that the Hellenistic period.
Alexander made stuff very confusing by calling his legacy Greek and not Macedonian. So while I'm normally also nitpicky on this, I blame history for being confusing...
Ok, so I'm going to go over a lot about Sparta that is being discussed in the last 20 or so years of academia.
But first, the good. You didn't add the famous lambda to their shields! Awesome job, that wasn't the Spartan standard until much later.
Anyway, so there are some flaws with the idea that the Spartan state developed as the Spartans because they feared a helot uprising. That was what people thought, but it doesn't really seem to hold water. Now the major problem with all of this is that we just don't have the Spartan's writing on any of this, so all we really know about them comes from outsiders (usually Athenians) commenting on how awesome or how horrible they were. Thucydides the disgraced general who just lost a war against Sparta portrays them as poorly educated hypocritical monsters. While Xenophon the Athenian who joined a Spartan mercenary band, befriended the Spartan king, and had his son raised in the Agoge loves them.
Alright so the Helots. In the old histories the militarization of Sparta is said to have happened because they needed a way to control the unruly helots. Here's the problem, they had conquered the helots for over a century before the heavy militarization occurred. What actually seems to have been the precursor was several failed wars in a row against their neighbors. There's also the problem that during this time, the Spartans armed the helots to fight for them. Even in the account of Plataea we are told of phalanxes of helots brought by the Spartans.
Now the stories of the brutality of the Spartans going into helots homes and murdering is one of the accounts of the krypteia. This also has a problem. There are 4 accounts that mention the Krypteia, only they talk about 3 completely different things. Plutarch who was a Roman writing hundreds of years after the Spartans had become little more than a freak show is the one who talks of the krypteia as the secret police of helot murderers. Most modern historians are very careful when using Plutarch. Now, Plato also mentions the Krypteia as a rite of passage into manhood. Where the young man would have to survive in the wilderness without food or aid for several days. And still another account gives the krypteia as a military unit that fought in a few battles with no real distinguishing features.
So, did the Spartans go in and kill helots? Probably, but not as much as we're lead to believe. Recent archeological evidence indicates that the territory that we sort of group as Messenia where the "Messenian" helots lived was open farmland well outside the power structures of daily Spartan life. The archeology seems to indicate that they were treated far more like serfs than the brutalized slaves.
So where did the tales of Spartan brutality come from? Well, throughout the centuries where the Spartans controlled the helots there were two major revolts. The one we know more about only occurred when Sparta suffered a massive earthquake, weakening their manpower and increasing the burden of crops on the helots who were also affected by the earthquake. This, unsurprisingly, lead to revolt. And this is the time period where accounts of the Spartan brutality actually begin. There really isn't any before this point. And they cracked down on the helots hard. But things like the secret police and yearly declarations of war seem to be the invention of later authors trying to make a point about Sparta's political system.
Ok, second thing. I know you were probably being poetical, but the Spartan soldiers were not unquestioning. There seems to have been some really hard to explain conflict where the Spartans were enforced to do what is best for the city-state above all, and to find personal glory. With the advanced military command structure and everyone in the society having knowledge of military tactics we actually get more than a few accounts of the Spartan sub-commanders completely ignoring their orders to do what they thought would be more beneficial. And usually this seems to have been considered a good thing, it helped win a couple battles.
Then finally, because I'm running out of time. Spartans as the best heavy infantry of their time period is debatable. Now, there is some good evidence you can point to, to enforce this idea. This was in middle of a period when the Spartan army when marshaled had not lost a battle in 175 years. Which, as far as I am aware is a record that has never been matched. However, the Spartan honor guards and certain skirmish engages they seem to have performed about as well as any other cities honor guard. And we know that the Spartan honor guard was more of a prize for political and social means rather than just skill. So, a better comparison would be saying that each Spartan army unit as a whole was about as good as anyone else's best. The easiest example to point to is the battle of the 300 Champions between Sparta and Argos. 300 warriors fought on each side, at the end of the battle Argos had 2 left. Sparta had 1. Which is close enough to even that I'd say there really doesn't seem to be much skill difference. However, when the full Argos and Spartan armies fought later that week the number of combatants was supposedly even and the Spartan crushed their opponent.
Anyway, really enjoyed the video.
Respect.
*Can I get an F=Respect for this person's hands and fingers?*
YES! THIS IS STARTING OFF MY SUMMER! :D
It's amazing how much that everything says "unprecedented", lol!
I love the phrase "dual monarchy", because it's not monarchy... It's duarchy
Diarchy
Diarchy
Possibly they got confused with the Austro-Hungarian dual monarchy, which also involves two kings.
At least, thats the only others state I know with two monarchs.
They were called ephors.
Ah, true, my mistake!
“This is madness...”
*”THIS IS SPARTA!”*
2:17 gotta love that the bottom of the extreme scale is scuba-assisted shark racing
I learm this in Classics and watching this video taught me soooooo many new things about it, thanks alot🙏🙏
Obligatory "this is sparta" memes
scaper12123
*This is Sparta!!!!!!!*
-That book movie thing named 300
I love that you guys got the long hair on the spartans. Too many instances of pop culture miss out on that.
Thank you so much - I have an exam on the Persian Wars next week!!
EXTRA CREDITS! WHAT IS YOUR PROFESSION?! XD
Anyway, it's nice you go on this as I love this part on Ancient Greek history, something that's radically different from the awesome movie we all know. Keep it up, EC!
Excellent video as always, but I would like to point out that in school we learned that Athenian slaves were worse off that their Spartan equivalents. Spartan "είλωτες" enjoyed various privileges like living with their families, being allowed to marry whomever they wanted and raise their children. They also got to keep half of whatever money they made, and could buy their freedom. The word Athenians used for their slaves, "δούλοι" , translates to: he who is no human like the rest, but mere property of some owner. Not sure about this one, if someone has more knowledge on the topic, I would love to hear it.
Not really, they way you described helots is actually how slaves were treated in Athens. Meanwhile, helots, whose status as to whether they were actual slaves or not was disputed since antiquity, had it way worse, Spartans would systematically torture, humiliate amd slaughter them, while in Athens the mistreatment of slaves you didn't own was a crime, and the murder of a slave was punishable by death.
The Helots could not buy their freedom. That makes no sense as the Helots weren't owned by anyone. What could be possible though I'm not sure is the Helot could perhaps buy a piece of land that wasn't owned by a Spartan and work there.
The treatment of Athenian slaves was not really consistent as it was a private affair instead of a state affair. How slaves were treated was entirely dependent on their owner. Some slaves were tortured daily for the heck of it while others were loved almost like family members. I'm not sure the murder of a slave was punishable by death since lawfully a slave was the same thing as a farm animal and I don't think killing a cow was punishable by death.
Their treatment was better though than the Black slaves in the America's because the majority of them were house slaves that their masters knew by name and they usually were of the same race. In America black slaves were usually owned in large numbers by a few masters so those masters had no kind of personal connection to those slaves and also a clear racial discrimination against them.
How are soldiers second to citizens in Athenian society? As far as I know, in order to be able to vote in the ecclesia you would have to have completed the military service :o
He didn't say the warriors were beneath the citizens. He said the citizens valued politics over military prowess.
Argh damn you and your awesome story telling! Every episode ends in goosebumps!
"Thermopylae, the Hot Gates" is my new favorite dirty euphemism.
About time Greece was about to get it's due.
WDune
Byzantine?
It really hasn't. Not many people really dive deep into Ancient Greek history, considering its importance.
where are you from because all the schools here (California) dedicate practically half of 6th grade to learning it
@Shapur Hakhamaniash Nah,no big deal.Without the battle of Thermopylae there would be no Golden Age of Pericles and Athens,no Alexander the Great, no Greek Philosophy,no Greek nationality, and OH WAIT...NO SLAVIC ALPHABET!!!Does that ring a bell?
DAMN GREEKS, THEY RUINED GREECE.
I want to add something. Although Greeks were not together as a nation. They shared the common name "Greeks"= Έλληνες. So they knew they had pretty much the same nationality
I just came from the Malian Empire video and its so funny how "we can't talk about Mali's participation in the slave trade because the transatalantic slave trade was 'uniquely cruel' and complex". Yet, here, you gave a short rundown of Sparta's complex society and cruelty of the helot system in about sixty seconds.
For the people discussing about skin color, there are some surviving greek paintings and mosaics (ver very few) and some roman mosaics that are believed to be copies from Greek paintings, it's always good to see how people represent themselves. I personally love Alexander mosaic, there is a video in smarthistory about it.
So you’re telling me The 300 is an exaggeration and not an accurate historical representation??
Finally ancient Greece! How about the Pelopponesian War next?
Super insightful, thanks!
Longer episodes finally ! :D
So more Extra Credits thanks to Total War who started IT all.
😆
0:52:
Damn, that was a long intro for Extra history. It might even be the longest one they've ever made. Tell me if I'm wrong
Thank you guys so much
Many of your videos got me through 7th grade
Persia, the greatest empire the world has ever known was about to invade greece
Roman Empire: Did someone say something?
Genghis Khan: "Pfft. Amateurs."
They should have added "until that point"
Persian empire was larger than roman empire,and there was no Roman empire at Achaemenid era
So about Persia and slavery. The Persians didn't seem to practice slavery as stated. At least not for heavy labor at this point in time. There might have been domestic slavery, but overall the Persians didn't seem to at least practice it en masse. That didn't mean there was no slavery in Persia. Their subjects were free to keep their practices, though Persians also released slaves from some enemies that had stubbornly defied them. Basically it's not a complete "no slaves in Persia", more a "Persians at this point in time didn't seem to practice it, at least not on large scale".
Well actually most civilizations did not make heavy use of slavery. The Romans were more the exception than the rule regarding it. Every ancient civilization had slaves but they were usually just a few high ranking prisoners or people sold into slavery that serve a high ranking master.
Things the Romans did like enslaving whole populations, high ranking people having thousands of slaves and even middle income people having slaves. So much so that during it's height of the 2th century over 30% of the people of the capital were slaves is really not normal.
Jonathan Luoto I think what the Greeks objected to was foreign rule, no matter how pleasant it might have been.
They didn't had too many slaves but they had very high taxes
No. No slaves in Persia. People volunteered to work based ona class system, not a slave ownership system.
I still can't help but think of Xerces as a Goa'uld, ever since that movie..... the one that this video has deftly avoided referencing.
A new Extra History video!
probably a good idea to mention the spartan mirage as well, but really great episode!!