HEY! WE HAVE A MERCH STORE!!!! www.dwschopsho... Here I show you guys how to line up timing marks and clock the oil pump. Like and subscribe if this helped you out!
Thanks for the video I got a 57 ironhead almost ready to take the cam cover off.i was told it has hp cams in it. Kicking it with magneto sucks got sportster knee twice in one day 20yrs ago same bike. Been working on it.see if the cams are not lined up next. Thanks for your advice and time Johnny
I have a 1978 XLCR frame with an engine that was used for drag racing, bought it a few years ago at an estate sale. The engine has Alan Sputhe cases, Andrews lumpy cams, 4 5/8" stroke (74 cu in), so don't know the year, 1978/1980 is my guess. I started at the front of the bike and am working my way back, the bike sat in a shed for 25+ years while the engine was in a different frame. I have no experience with Sportsters, I do have a 88" Panhead motor and trans in a 1981 FXE bike I bought in 1998. I pulled the cam cover three nights ago, wanted to know what was in there, put the cams back in two nights ago. Not sure if I did it right, all the marks lined up except the #2 and #3 cams. Like your cams they are off 1/2 tooth, the dot on #3 doesn't line up exactly with the line on #2. I see that you put the line on #2 above the dot on #3, is that the proper position? I cheated and held the tappets up with wooden clothes pins. I have the correct Harley shop manual which is helpfull but the illustration depicts exact alignment which I can not duplicate since they don't line up. I don't have the experience to guess correctly. Any insight will be appreciated, thanks. Warren
I have to be honest with you. This video shows the correct way for stock cams. They are machined to be off just a tad, and that's essentially because of lash between the gears. BUT I've never worked on a heavily modified ironhead like what you are mentioning. I would send it and see what happens, honestly. The worst thing that would happen if your timing was a bit off would be hard starting or rough idle. Pistons should still have valve reliefs. That sounds like an awesome bike, man!
Forque, if you listen I stated this motor is trash. Used to demonstrate and practice on. Also at the end of the video you hear me say that im not demonstrating tdc or advance. And I state multiple times throughout the video that a tech manual is needed. Video is just showing how to get to everything, and how to put the cams in so the timing marks kin up.
Thanks marcus d. Just had someone give me a 59 to 85 clymer manual. Im confident it'll cover my 57. M419 is the manual number. Again, thanks for your reply
Thanks man ..keep em coming I've got a tect manual and it's from Harley. But if I can read it and watch somone do it I can too. I've watched a lot of these things learned more from your videos than 100 others.
Thank you Quick question When changing the oil pump gear drive (pinion gear) Top dead center front cylinder and remove rocker Top dead center rear cylinder and remove rocker Do you have to remove the push rods and sliders if taking the cams out?
So, I'm not sure what your calling the rocker. The rocker is what is on top of the engine and the top of the pushrod pushes against on one side, and the valve spring on the other. Those shouldn't need to come out to to do anything inside the cam chest on an ironhead. The tappets, the part that your pushrod sets into (see my videos on adjusting pushrods I identify the parts in that) and the pushrods themselves, and the tappets, do need to come out to remove the cams. without the cams in place they just fall. Keep the push rods in order, they are different sizes. Front cyl exhaust pushrod is longest, both intake pushrods are the same, and rear cyl exhaust is second longest.
FWIW. Take a closer look at your manual. Pinion mark has nothing to do with oil pump timing. The pinion mark is only used for cam timing. For pump timing the advanced timing mark on the flywheel is used ( 40° or 45° depending on year). That pump is now 1- tooth off. A pinion gear loose like that should be replaced. On breather motors (57-76) it is a hard-pressed fit. The manual is real specific on how far it is pressed onto the shaft.
excellent Vid, Thanks, this will help. Im redoing my e73 motor. But I dont have any timing marks that I can see on any of my cams yet. front and back appear to be clear, but there are paint marks on a few of the cams, 1,3,4, but 2 is clear as well (case side). the cover side has the paint marks. Problem is making sure 2 is set in the proper place with no marks lines...
Guys need to know not to whack that gear in, however gently. There is a tool to get that will press that on. You don't want to whack on the crankshaft, it's not designed for sideways forces, just up and down. It's okay to do with a junk motor, but not with a good one.
what year are you working with i have a 77 and i do not see a oil hole on my motor at all hAS it been changed and wrong one installed previously im afraid to continue i dont want to tear down again
Nice job. , Marcus. I was recently there but learned the hard way. Now assuming I have the oil pump timed properly and done everything else right, what is the reason I am pumping oil out of the breather tube virtually all the time the engine runs. It is a 1969 Ironhead I just bought. Wasn't running when I bought it so don't know any history. This is not the wet sumping I have read so much about. Before it stops blowing oil, each time I start the motor, I will get 1/2 quart of oil out of the breather tube. After returning the blown oil to the tank, within 5 minutes, it will blow it out again.
If I need to do oil pump gaskets. Do I have to worry about retiming the oil pump or will that gear amd shaft stay up in the motor, as i take bottom plate and all other peaces of the sandwitch off to replace the 3 gaskets?
Hi i have 2 questions about the ironhead oil pump allignment. I have a 1973 ironhead that is new to me. It pukes oil out the breather tube. I changed the oil. Still pukes.. cleaned ball valve. Still pukes tried 20w-50 and then 60w oil. Still pukes. Question 1. Would wrong pump timing cause this?? #2 does wrong pump timing hurt the bike? Thanks
Dude, finally found a useful video for my cams! thanks!!!! can you make a video of where to put the shims in that camshaft. and possible where each lobe should sit???
When you line up the cams timing marks it puts the lobes in the right spot. And i ended up putting this engine in a bike two months ago. But im going to be doing work here soon ill try and remember to put a vid of the cam shims in. Harley put out a notice back in the day that advises against using cam shims. So if you pulled them out and forgot where they go then I wouldn't put them back in if you dont feel comfortable checking for play.
BYW, I pulled the oil pressure switch. Oil would not flow past the ball check. Seems to me the seat is good and wet jumping is a different condition then my problem.
It is. Ive been there all HD Service MANUALS take time to Understand and it takes at least 5 yrs. to even get your Toes Wet in the HD WRENCH World Especially when In 1984 when the Owner would take in any HD for Work. And I Wouldn't have wanted to do anything esle for a Career. ✌️✌️@@CrimsonStain2692
great video, in the process of tearing down an 81 basket case motor. I think the previous owner had assembled wrong, looks like all the cams line up on ignition timing (the circle) not front cylinder TDC (the line) guess I need to pull the pinion gear and realign at TDC. Any advice?
make sure you piston is at tdc. you can't pull the pinion gear off and put it on a different way. your cases have a hole on the left side below the jugs. it's either an Allen key or like a 13/16" plug. you look through that hole and it will have TWO marks on it. one mark is tdc one is bottom dead center. make sure your looking at tdc and check timing again.
+Marcus D point taken on the pinion gear, thank you. guess I need to dig a little deeper and find the actual case numbers. From what I can find between the net and the FM some time around the year of this motor HD switched the timing marks around. Thanks for the reply.
This is a old post but I would guess you sheared the feed gear drive pin. Not a biggie.....HD used a solid pin and later on a roll pin. If you have a roll pin you should change it to a solid pin. Good luck.
Did you get this fixed? Removing the pump is pretty simple. Just 4 bolts or studs and nuts(depending) remove them and the ump can be dropped. Putting the pump back is is more of a trick though as it needs to be timed(depending on year)
Sandy Walker I tried to reply to you on channel you left reply on but my comments are blocked on that channel so i replied in the discussions tab on my channel or can post here if you prefer don't know another way to be able to reply
i know this was 2 years ago but in case someone reads it.....THE GEARS ARE SET ON THE ADVANCE TIMING MARK,WHICH IS THE STRAIGHT LINE AND NOT TDC WHICH IS THE SINGLE DOT.....thats why doing this shit online gets confusing,.......again the line not the dot to set the cams
thanks man, youre video helped me out on timing my 1980 iron head 1000 cc, no bike shops will screw me no more, i added this video to my channel with the video i made of a running bike and the appreciation of getting screwed, with a hell of an education ua-cam.com/video/tt_XSpXq-Ig/v-deo.html
Thanks for the video I got a 57 ironhead almost ready to take the cam cover off.i was told it has hp cams in it. Kicking it with magneto sucks got sportster knee twice in one day 20yrs ago same bike. Been working on it.see if the cams are not lined up next. Thanks for your advice and time Johnny
Liked and subscribed.
I have a 1978 XLCR frame with an engine that was used for drag racing, bought it a few years ago at an estate sale. The engine has Alan Sputhe cases, Andrews lumpy cams, 4 5/8" stroke (74 cu in), so don't know the year, 1978/1980 is my guess. I started at the front of the bike and am working my way back, the bike sat in a shed for 25+ years while the engine was in a different frame. I have no experience with Sportsters, I do have a 88" Panhead motor and trans in a 1981 FXE bike I bought in 1998.
I pulled the cam cover three nights ago, wanted to know what was in there, put the cams back in two nights ago. Not sure if I did it right, all the marks lined up except the #2 and #3 cams. Like your cams they are off 1/2 tooth, the dot on #3 doesn't line up exactly with the line on #2. I see that you put the line on #2 above the dot on #3, is that the proper position? I cheated and held the tappets up with wooden clothes pins. I have the correct Harley shop manual which is helpfull but the illustration depicts exact alignment which I can not duplicate since they don't line up. I don't have the experience to guess correctly. Any insight will be appreciated, thanks.
Warren
I have to be honest with you. This video shows the correct way for stock cams. They are machined to be off just a tad, and that's essentially because of lash between the gears.
BUT I've never worked on a heavily modified ironhead like what you are mentioning. I would send it and see what happens, honestly. The worst thing that would happen if your timing was a bit off would be hard starting or rough idle. Pistons should still have valve reliefs.
That sounds like an awesome bike, man!
Forque, if you listen I stated this motor is trash. Used to demonstrate and practice on. Also at the end of the video you hear me say that im not demonstrating tdc or advance. And I state multiple times throughout the video that a tech manual is needed. Video is just showing how to get to everything, and how to put the cams in so the timing marks kin up.
THanks for the video. Helped out with lining up the oil pump. Keep em coming
Thank you very much you're very helpful and you're one hell of a mechanic
Thanks marcus d. Just had someone give me a 59 to 85 clymer manual. Im confident it'll cover my 57. M419 is the manual number. Again, thanks for your reply
I have the same manual 59-85 I have a 57 ironhead in a 65 rigid frame just pay attention to the older diagrams and spec's and videos .
Johnny
Thanks man ..keep em coming I've got a tect manual and it's from Harley. But if I can read it and watch somone do it I can too. I've watched a lot of these things learned more from your videos than 100 others.
I appreciated this video, this I remembered how to do.
good video learned a lot but next time get a tripod there not that exspenive..it will make a big deverents all be watching for your next one..
Thank you
Quick question
When changing the oil pump gear drive (pinion gear)
Top dead center front cylinder and remove rocker
Top dead center rear cylinder and remove rocker
Do you have to remove the push rods and sliders if taking the cams out?
So, I'm not sure what your calling the rocker. The rocker is what is on top of the engine and the top of the pushrod pushes against on one side, and the valve spring on the other. Those shouldn't need to come out to to do anything inside the cam chest on an ironhead.
The tappets, the part that your pushrod sets into (see my videos on adjusting pushrods I identify the parts in that) and the pushrods themselves, and the tappets, do need to come out to remove the cams. without the cams in place they just fall. Keep the push rods in order, they are different sizes. Front cyl exhaust pushrod is longest, both intake pushrods are the same, and rear cyl exhaust is second longest.
FWIW.
Take a closer look at your manual. Pinion mark has nothing to do with oil pump timing. The pinion mark is only used for cam timing. For pump timing the advanced timing mark on the flywheel is used ( 40° or 45° depending on year). That pump is now 1- tooth off. A pinion gear loose like that should be replaced. On breather motors (57-76) it is a hard-pressed fit. The manual is real specific on how far it is pressed onto the shaft.
Thanks dude 👍🏼
excellent Vid, Thanks, this will help. Im redoing my e73 motor. But I dont have any timing marks that I can see on any of my cams yet. front and back appear to be clear, but there are paint marks on a few of the cams, 1,3,4, but 2 is clear as well (case side). the cover side has the paint marks. Problem is making sure 2 is set in the proper place with no marks lines...
Great video! I'll be doing this soon. Definitely helped me out.
Thanks!
This guy is great,thanks for the help to! Thank you
What happens when you don't have a mark on the oil pump???
You have a newer style oil pump, I want to say 72 and up. Just have the mesh screen facing out at the 12 o clock position.
Marcus D. Nice video man. Thanks!
Guys need to know not to whack that gear in, however gently. There is a tool to get that will press that on. You don't want to whack on the crankshaft, it's not designed for sideways forces, just up and down. It's okay to do with a junk motor, but not with a good one.
thanks .
Anytime! Hope it helped. It's an old video and my camera work sucked lol.
what year are you working with i have a 77 and i do not see a oil hole on my motor at all hAS it been changed and wrong one installed previously im afraid to continue i dont want to tear down again
Nice job. , Marcus. I was recently there but learned the hard way. Now assuming I have the oil pump timed properly and done everything else right, what is the reason I am pumping oil out of the breather tube virtually all the time the engine runs. It is a 1969 Ironhead I just bought. Wasn't running when I bought it so don't know any history. This is not the wet sumping I have read so much about. Before it stops blowing oil, each time I start the motor, I will get 1/2 quart of oil out of the breather tube. After returning the blown oil to the tank, within 5 minutes, it will blow it out again.
So...I'm clinically insane. Books look like hyroglyphics to me. Thank you for the video. I did it in minutes on a 1980.
This video is helpful, but it needs to be timed on the 40 degree advance timing mark on the flywheel and not top dead center.
would that be the two dots on the flywheel ?
John Reid no it's the single line going up and down
thanx
If I need to do oil pump gaskets. Do I have to worry about retiming the oil pump or will that gear amd shaft stay up in the motor, as i take bottom plate and all other peaces of the sandwitch off to replace the 3 gaskets?
Hi i have 2 questions about the ironhead oil pump allignment. I have a 1973 ironhead that is new to me. It pukes oil out the breather tube. I changed the oil. Still pukes.. cleaned ball valve. Still pukes tried 20w-50 and then 60w oil. Still pukes. Question 1. Would wrong pump timing cause this?? #2 does wrong pump timing hurt the bike? Thanks
Dude, finally found a useful video for my cams! thanks!!!! can you make a video of where to put the shims in that camshaft. and possible where each lobe should sit???
When you line up the cams timing marks it puts the lobes in the right spot. And i ended up putting this engine in a bike two months ago. But im going to be doing work here soon ill try and remember to put a vid of the cam shims in. Harley put out a notice back in the day that advises against using cam shims. So if you pulled them out and forgot where they go then I wouldn't put them back in if you dont feel comfortable checking for play.
Remember have your engine at top dead center before you put your cams in.
Thanks man!!!! so this engine in the video is running good now??? even without shims?
Nick Ferrero yeah if you look at my other videos its the 72 hard tailed ironhead.
and what exactly do you mean by top dead center?
BYW, I pulled the oil pressure switch. Oil would not flow past the ball check. Seems to me the seat is good and wet jumping is a different condition then my problem.
How are the main oil line ran I have a 82 ironhead sportster And I am trying to figure out how to run the oil lines in the Vent lines
When it comes to using shims on the cams, is there a particular many per cam?
WRONG !! WRONG!! READ THE SERVICE MANUAL!!!
brother the service manual for 1979 is comical at best :D
It is. Ive been there all HD Service MANUALS take time to Understand and it takes at least 5 yrs. to even get your Toes Wet in the HD WRENCH World Especially when In 1984 when the Owner would take in any HD for Work. And I Wouldn't have wanted to do anything esle for a Career. ✌️✌️@@CrimsonStain2692
Can anyone help with the crank gears? It’s impossible to get mine off, and I don’t think they’re lined up, how do I get those off? Any tricks?
great video, in the process of tearing down an 81 basket case motor. I think the previous owner had assembled wrong, looks like all the cams line up on ignition timing (the circle) not front cylinder TDC (the line) guess I need to pull the pinion gear and realign at TDC. Any advice?
make sure you piston is at tdc. you can't pull the pinion gear off and put it on a different way. your cases have a hole on the left side below the jugs. it's either an Allen key or like a 13/16" plug. you look through that hole and it will have TWO marks on it. one mark is tdc one is bottom dead center. make sure your looking at tdc and check timing again.
+Marcus D point taken on the pinion gear, thank you. guess I need to dig a little deeper and find the actual case numbers. From what I can find between the net and the FM some time around the year of this motor HD switched the timing marks around. Thanks for the reply.
great video, get back to me wen you get a chance have a couple questions
having trouble taking a gear off any ideas I have tried a puller and no luck
Not everybody removes the pinion, if that is the gear you are referring to.
I have a 75 iron head and gear shifter goes all the way down low
got a question for you. Can you tell me how to get the tdc on my 1972 ironhead sportster.
Rocio Butler
did you get this done?
my sportster has no oil pumping to the rocker boxes. could you make a video of taking the oil pump out?
This is a old post but I would guess you sheared the feed gear drive pin. Not a biggie.....HD used a solid pin and later on a roll pin. If you have a roll pin you should change it to a solid pin. Good luck.
Did you get this fixed? Removing the pump is pretty simple. Just 4 bolts or studs and nuts(depending) remove them and the ump can be dropped. Putting the pump back is is more of a trick though as it needs to be timed(depending on year)
Sandy Walker
I tried to reply to you on channel you left reply on but my comments are blocked on that channel
so i replied in the discussions tab on my channel or can post here if you prefer don't know another way to be able to reply
what about the push rods
What about them? I have a video on adjusting them. They don't have anything to do with timing.
I want to install new andrew cam will I have to install push rods also
+jimmy ramirez not necessarily. when you buy cams the manufacturer instructions should tell you if you need new push rods.
before doing this what gear do u put it in? or do u keep it in neutral?
usually 4th gear because you have to turn the engine over to find tdc by spinning the rear tire
okay awesome thanks :)
@hbft scrape the pain off. I bet there are marks under them.
I can't get it to shift into neutral
i just bought a 57 xla. know where i can find tech. manual?
Richard Alvis eBay is your best bet, I prefer Clymer manuals. make sure to get a service and parts manual.
Does it have to me set to TDC when you set the gears?
Yes. That lines up your pinion gear.
Thank you! Gotta do it tomorrow.
i know this was 2 years ago but in case someone reads it.....THE GEARS ARE SET ON THE ADVANCE TIMING MARK,WHICH IS THE STRAIGHT LINE AND NOT TDC WHICH IS THE SINGLE DOT.....thats why doing this shit online gets confusing,.......again the line not the dot to set the cams
Also hbft if you can snap me a picture and email it to me ill try and help ya out.
thanks man, youre video helped me out on timing my 1980 iron head 1000 cc, no bike shops will screw me no more, i added this video to my channel with the video i made of a running bike and the appreciation of getting screwed, with a hell of an education ua-cam.com/video/tt_XSpXq-Ig/v-deo.html