As a few people pointed out, I made a pretty basic factual error in this video when I said that Raincaller is only caught in Jadeite Flood in New Gridania. It's actually also caught in a second fishing hole, Whispering Gorge, in Old Gridania. This is very strong evidence against the snow secretly being rain since now there's no question about whether the two halves of the city are operating on different rules.
I have a theory: I think the oddity of Stormdancer having the same behavior is most likely just an instance of copying values. Starlight Celebration was an event that existed in 1.0, and was likely planned to be a thing in 2.0 from the start. In addition, the first Starlight Celebration of ARR started on December 18, 2013 (one day after patch 2.1), while Stormdancer wasn't added to the game until patch 2.2. So my idea of the sequence of events that led to this are as follows: 1. In the development of 2.0, Raincaller was put on the fishing hole as a rain-dependent fish that would be used as a quest item for the Fisher quests. 2. At some point before the release of 2.1, someone on the dev team mentioned that the permanent snow of Starlight Celebration would prevent catching Raincaller, so snow was added as a valid weather to its catch table. 3. When Stormdancer was created for patch 2.2, Raincaller's catch table data was copied as a baseline for making the new fish, since it was supposed to have the same rain dependency as Raincaller anyways, and the snow weather condition was not removed. As disappointing as it is for the "snow = rain" theory to be not true, I think this is the most reasonable explanation. Excellent video!
Yea, they share the same icon, they share the same fishing hole. Either a copy-paste or the result of some spaghetti code tying them together. Honestly, the multiple ranged for a single weather pattern are a far more interesting mystery to me. Since the numbers are pseudo-randomly-generated, there should be no reason to organise them like that, and most certainly not in two immediately neighbouring ranges. The only way I can explain that is that they intended for more weather patterns to exist, but omit them in the end.
@@CafColeo another thing to do is look at all weather tables and group them by zones that share the same value range increments: as they are likely copy paste modify groups to see if there is a pattern as to why one group is chosen over another for a given zone and using what happens over a given real life period what the real resulting weather % are from their formula, maybe this was a design criteria for the system
I actually had a choice as to whether this was going to be an internet slapfight drama recap video or trying to actually answer the question, but I promise you it's possible to make an internet slapfight drama recap video about this lmao
Edda. You're welcome. You can see Edda's ghost at 2am during rain in set spots in every base main city, including the playground in New Gridania. She isn't guaranteed to show up (gods know I've been trying to catch her for months) but if someone does spot her during starlight you just need to cross reference what the underlying non-Starlight weather would've been at that time.
My assumption re: multiple instances of a weather type in weather tables was to create a "predominant" weather type, the same way it's "always" rainy in Seattle.
My guess for the doubled table ranges: it's to more heavily weight that type of weather in those areas. So you're twice as likely to experience fair skies in Mist than rain, and twice as likely to experience rain in Gridania.
I'm amazed how you made this entire thing with all the niche testing while missing one very very simple fact. Stormdancer IS a Raincaller. Many of the Big Fish are, lorewise, simply an exceptional specimen of one of the fish from that hole. Stormdancers description is "A king among raincallers, and lord of the waters of the Jadeite Flood." It's easy to see the reason, Raincaller works in Snow as to no break the quest, and Stormcaller works in Snow because whoever programmed it in thought it pertinent that the big Raincaller should be active when the normal ones are.
You're right that I should have mentioned this in the conclusion- but I have to disagree with you on it being very simple. Stormcaller being a big Raindancer and copying the conditions seems reasonable, but if you've gotten in the weeds with big fish you'll see that they often just don't match up very well with the small version at all- completely unrelated weather requirements, sometimes even different hooksets (i.e. precision vs powerful) - it is never a safe assumption that the big fish version of a fish will in any way mimic or mirror the non-big-fish version- even within Gridania, Carp Diem (big fish moat carp) is totally unavailable in Starlight while the small one is unaffected. Having concluded that it is most likely that snow ≠ rain, this is a very plausible explanation, but it isn't as straightforward as it seems at first blush.
Honestly, I assume Stormcaller was updated because it was just in the same hole. They didn't plan on updating all the fish, and likely realized pretty late that "wait, that one quest gets locked out" so they went to update that one fishing hole and when they did they just went "well, might as well update that one too!" but didn't touch any other holes because they weren't relevant.
I'm not a fisher, so I don't know how likely any of this is, but: On Raincaller/stormdancer: Could it just be that they didn't want to anything to affect the % chance to catch a raincaller for the quest? If raincaller was catchable during Starlight snow, but Stormdancer wasn't, that would mean Raincaller would occupy a larger ratio of the catch pool during Starlight than it was supposed to. They may have then added Stormdancer to the Starlight snow pool to make sure that your % chance to catch Raincaller was what it was supposed to be, rather than having it be easier during starlight (why only it was changed, and not the ones that didn't share a spot with Raincaller). You can make the argument that they already did that (by having it not rain dependent during Starlight), but they probly see a difference between changing the times you have to wait for it, and changing the amount of time you're actively fishing at that location. On housing districts: I just assume this is them having a "common table" they copy/paste a lot with the same range values, and they just adjust the weather as necessary. Like at 8:54, Central/East/Lavender Beds all share the same ranges, and North/South share the same ranges. It's probably less that there's a "real" reason to duplicate weathers, and more that they just copy a table from elsewhere, and tweak it a bit ("South Shroud's supposed to be foggier, so change an extra or two to fog", etc), because nobody will know the difference anyway, except dataminers.
As far as ratios go, Raincaller isn't all that rare, especially during weather events where it can be caught. Stormdancer, as the designated Big Fish for that fishing hole, has very low catch odds that are supposed to be complicated by the weather, making it a challenge to obtain. Stormdancer's ratio is way higher than it should be during Starlight snow since weather can be completely disregarded for two whole weeks. Raincallers are expected to all be caught within a single rain window for the level 40 fisher quest, with rain occurring multiple times in a real-life day, whereas Stormdancer has a window of 5:00pm-2:00am Eorzea Time (about 40 minutes in real-time) that normally needs to overlap with rain in order to have a chance at catching the fish. During Starlight, you only need to worry about the window, not the weather. It's not like Stormdancer is obscenely rare, but it's intended to be something you plan ahead of time for under normal weather conditions.
In all likelihood when changing raincaller a developer saw a second rain dependent fish spawn in that fishing hole and thought "why not?" And changed that fish as well. The only reason he didn't do the same for other fish is that it probably was to much of an bother to check which other fishing holes are effected by this
Exactly. Sometimes development decisions are just down to boring practical explanations like this. They had to fix the one fish for the quests, they fixed a second fish that was already in the same spot, but it wasn't worth their time to seek out every other weather dependent fish.
My guess (and it is a GUESS) is that the way weather is implemented with fishing is with something akin to a "drop table" for the fishing hole that changes based on weather. While the system definitely supports plenty of specific criteria for particular fish, none of that matters if you're on the wrong drop table. So SE's solution was to create an exception where fishing holes in Gridania used the "rain drop table" during Starlight Snow to prevent players from being locked out of the job quest. Under this theory, the explanation for Stormdancer is simply that they didn't bother adding an additional exception to its catch criteria to prevent it from appearing.
i always assume in every MMO that the christmas events have arteficial snow, given that it barely piles up or doesn't realy impact the temperature, as most cropfields and animals/mobs appear completly unaffected (maybe you get some new seasonal enemies that only appear during the event).
The easiest way to implement this one exception would be to ignore the weather table during starlight in the fishing code by adding that one specific fish to the list of catchable fish manually. It's the only place that requires it, it should be a couple of lines changed and would probably not generate too many side effects. The doubled could just be a bunch of places where there was an old weather and they just changed the ids around instead of durations, or at some point the code required a fixed amount of weather changes per map, so they needed to break the longer ones in two.
i know there is an S rank that spawn requirements are dependent on the 2 x rain affect. If it spawns during the starlight celebration, then you could confirm there is rain
It spawns outside the cities- only the cities themselves are affected by Starlight Celebration. Everywhere else the regular weather is still happening.
i assumed it was rain cause when i tend to my crops it doesnt 'water' them it pulls out weeds. The watering can emote plays unless its raining, where the wol picks weeds instead. This snow has made it so I never take out the watering can.
My guess is that they did a checkbox on "starlight snow" so people could catch it. and they also checked the stormdancer since its the same item icon, but with extra, so it was an mistake for the Stormdancer.
If you have a house and you garden on the regular, you will notice that you don't have to water your crops during Starlight Celebration. Enjoy. Also, the best place to catch Raincallers is in OG at the ferry docks. So... you need to do more testing and then repeat those results several times for it to have any value.
...I'm so stupid, I totally forgot you could catch raincallers in whispering gorge. I'll need to address that. That's actually evidence for snow not being rain though, since it means there's no possibility of the weathers behaving differently in different halves of the city, and the lancers' guild isn't triggerable. I'll need to look more into garden stuff- does the normal snow in Empyreum behave the same as rain in other housing districts?
@@AngelaRichter65 When it's raining and apparently snowing, the animation changes from watering to weeding, but it's still the same "Tending" option that you need to do
I think the simplest explanation says it best : Raincaller is required for the lvl 40 FSH quest, and the two-week event would block progress on that. So they changed the [Rainy Weather] fishtable for Jadeite Flood to [Rainy/Snow Weather], something that is likely nothing more than a checkbox to enable. That fishtable also includes Stormdancer, the king of Raincallers, and while it would to possible to move it to its own fishtable, it would require more memory space and effort, for little purpose. I do suspect that if BLU had a snow weather-affected action, it would trigger, as the weather itself is standard snow weather.
I’m trying to come up with any possibilities for the unanswered question at 9:56, and I’m wondering why you think the Shroud doubled weather entries are an intentional design choice. (8:54) Is there an effect to having disjoint, duplicated table entries?
The way the weather in this game works is that it spits out a single number every 8 in-game hours and every single area in the game looks up that number in its weather table to figure out what the current weather is. The shroud most likely splits up the weather like this so that it doesn't "sync up" with La Noscea or Thanalan, which is kind of a cool idea but they never did it again.
@ I see. It’s not about the effect on that zone’s weather (which is statistically identical to one combined entry) but the effect on how weathers across the world sync up. I hadn’t thought of that.
My assumption would be that it was less effort to change the requirements on that specific fishing hole than mess with the weather code or anything else. So while holiday snow doesn't equal rain, it does specifically for the Jadeite Flood fishing hole, only.
The Lancers Guild log entry was on my mind from the start of this video because I actually tested that myself during starlight last year! So cool to see you address it even if it sorta debunked the theory. Great video!
According to Teamcraft, Stormdancer can be caught during Snow :p Stormdancer is "a king among raincallers", so it makes sense that it should also be included if Raincallers let themselves be caught. Raincallers are required to proceed the Fishing questline, which just cannot be blocked to players. To add, in Old Gridania, you can catch Raincallers at Whispering Gorge, the pier close to the Lancer's guild.
I'm so glad there are niche little XIV weather/argument videos out there. Weather in particular is something I never think about much while playing. Really love these!
my theory, raincaller and stormdancer are made catchable easily due to the event taking 2 weeks. this is to not lock the fisher quest and make it incompletable for the 2 week event. Could also have some lore implication too as snow is frozen water... or rain... so thus it's treated as such, and the raincaller responds to all forms of rain... and stormdancer being "the king of raincallers" i mean... one can fill the blank...
I also wouldn't be surprised if both raincallerand stormdancer are build from the same template/prefab. The probably flicked a switch somewhere, or simply added a new tag to that fish template to make it catchable in snow. Especially in this case since stormdancer really just feels like a higher level duplicate of raindancer. I know there have been some truly funky bug solutions in gaming over the years, but generally if you want to make exception code you do it on the smallest instance (a.k.a the fish or the fishing hole) so that it has the least possible chance of fucking up some other code. Weather itself is such a large system that you really don't want it itself to hold any exceptions since will cause such a mess down the line.
No, its Raincaller why Gridania has double rain. If i remember, it was changed somewhere in early 2.x patches because people complained they cant have quest done.
I'm not surprised this would come down to them just making a boring but practical change for the fish. The other fish might have just been changed because they were already editing the data for that pool and they updated it too while they were there etc.
can u do a video of job actions by NPCs? especially in DT where alisaie is a healer and has to use her vercures and vermedica action abilities? I feel like there is a lot of unused stuff in FFXIV
I've never finished an expansion's sightseeing log to check but I'm very sad if there's no New Game + mode for sightseeing, especially with the updates to add pictures and such. Anyway thank you for the niche content!
this was riveting. it's so niche and doesn't affect anything for me, yet I was at the edge of my seat the whole time. thank you for doing these videos about the weather, they are so great
I would think because the fishing actually gives an item, they didn't want to block it for that period of time. The other things are just personal things, but the fish actually, although VERY minorly affects the economy, so they probably just wanted to avoid the fuss, and the reason it came up was the quest. While they were in the fishing table they just decided to alter all the fish similarly.
Waiting on Yoshi-P coming out and saying that the snow isn't snow nor reskinned rain, but that it's actually dandruff from the Lalafell God of Unkempt Hair.
It's probably just a flag or value that's been set to true for that one fishing hole to make rain-exclusive fish available for the duration of the Starlight season. That's why nothing else works, it's not rain nor has any tables been modified. Simply a flag that makes the game ignore any checks for matching weather conditions in that one spot so the rain-dependent fish are always available. And once the event ends the flag is cleared.
I don't think so personally- Tension just kind of gets layered on top of the local weather (doesn't show up when you talk to Skywatcher NPCs, etc) and doesn't really interact with the "real" weather at all- you can still catch weather-dependent fish and complete sightseeing log entries through it. I don't think they would have built the weather tables with it in mind.
Regarding the 'double' weather stacking for Mist and Gridania and the Great Why haunting you - it may have to do with environmental storytelling from the back end. Gridania just - gets a lot of rain due to its proximity to Ramuh, a healthy weather cycle due to the Conjurers. As for The Mist having 'double' the chance for clear skies - so toons can enjoy the beach more often. For the same reason I can always laugh that Camp Drybone seems to always be raining whenever I go visit.
The thing is, the "doubled" weather doesn't make the weather more *common* - it's just that instead of being, to make up an example, a 30% chance of thunder, it's a 10% chance and a 20% chance.
I'm going to make a guess that the answer is in fishing itself. I'm going to guess that the Stormcaller is just a chance catch off the Raincaller, effectively giving a x% chance whenever you'd catch a Raincaller. So the Raincaller was given the chance to be caught during the snow to prevent lockout of the quest, and the Stormcaller was not altered at all allowing it to be caught "at a chance whenever a Raincaller is hooked"
I'm not sure about that personally- big fish exist independently of the small version even if they look similar. You can use the skill surface slap to eliminate all Raincallers from the Jadeite Flood and still catch Stormdancers easily, for example, and the time/weather conditions are often completely unrelated for the big/small versions of other big fish.
@@CafColeo I really think it's just dumber than that. Patchwork code from early times is always especially cryptic, so I genuinely believe that the Stormcaller's conditions probably includes "Is Raincaller on the fishing table?" as a check rather than checking all the same conditions to save cycles. Raincaller condition was changed to include snow to prevent the 2 week lockout, which checks that condition for Stormcaller. Surface Slap doesn't remove Raincaller from the list, just deletes it as an option from the catch table. I legit think it's just someone trying to be smart with coding accidentally making a weird interaction.
I have played since HW, and never once have I ever payed any notice to the weather mechanics of the game. I only knew it existed, but never really cared about it. Fun video though, have a new sub :)
I was like why does this guy know so much then I remembered your weather system video for ishgardian housing :D Yer quite clever :3 If you know anything about gardening that be helpful let me know!
The hell kind of debate is this lol... They literally say it is cold. The entire purpose of the reward is because it is cold. And when rain gets cold, it turns to snow. It is snow. It has always been snow.
I dunno, that other fish looks like a Raincaller full of Starlight cheer. Don't see anything missing here. Nope. Not at all. [But really it probably is just 'changed to rain']
This is a debate? It's an event, they flip a switch if event weather was real then it would only snow in places where snow is available. More than likely, square has a flag for the fish that happens with events and are on specific stuff.
As a few people pointed out, I made a pretty basic factual error in this video when I said that Raincaller is only caught in Jadeite Flood in New Gridania. It's actually also caught in a second fishing hole, Whispering Gorge, in Old Gridania. This is very strong evidence against the snow secretly being rain since now there's no question about whether the two halves of the city are operating on different rules.
I have a theory: I think the oddity of Stormdancer having the same behavior is most likely just an instance of copying values. Starlight Celebration was an event that existed in 1.0, and was likely planned to be a thing in 2.0 from the start. In addition, the first Starlight Celebration of ARR started on December 18, 2013 (one day after patch 2.1), while Stormdancer wasn't added to the game until patch 2.2. So my idea of the sequence of events that led to this are as follows:
1. In the development of 2.0, Raincaller was put on the fishing hole as a rain-dependent fish that would be used as a quest item for the Fisher quests.
2. At some point before the release of 2.1, someone on the dev team mentioned that the permanent snow of Starlight Celebration would prevent catching Raincaller, so snow was added as a valid weather to its catch table.
3. When Stormdancer was created for patch 2.2, Raincaller's catch table data was copied as a baseline for making the new fish, since it was supposed to have the same rain dependency as Raincaller anyways, and the snow weather condition was not removed.
As disappointing as it is for the "snow = rain" theory to be not true, I think this is the most reasonable explanation. Excellent video!
Something like this is probably the likeliest explanation, but without actually being in the minds of the devs we'll never actually know for sure
Yea, they share the same icon, they share the same fishing hole. Either a copy-paste or the result of some spaghetti code tying them together.
Honestly, the multiple ranged for a single weather pattern are a far more interesting mystery to me. Since the numbers are pseudo-randomly-generated, there should be no reason to organise them like that, and most certainly not in two immediately neighbouring ranges. The only way I can explain that is that they intended for more weather patterns to exist, but omit them in the end.
@@CafColeo another thing to do is look at all weather tables and group them by zones that share the same value range increments:
as they are likely copy paste modify groups to see if there is a pattern as to why one group is chosen over another for a given zone
and using what happens over a given real life period what the real resulting weather % are from their formula, maybe this was a design criteria for the system
Since the Stormdancer’s description includes “a king among Raincallers” wouldn’t it make sense that they made the king also available in snow?
Wait what the debate is literally just “what did they do to keep this quest working”?
I mean, this is some revolutionary stuff here, meta changing, and of existential import.
@ shit you are right you must be from the same future where they have the leviathan chaotic rain based mechanic
I actually had a choice as to whether this was going to be an internet slapfight drama recap video or trying to actually answer the question, but I promise you it's possible to make an internet slapfight drama recap video about this lmao
Edda. You're welcome. You can see Edda's ghost at 2am during rain in set spots in every base main city, including the playground in New Gridania. She isn't guaranteed to show up (gods know I've been trying to catch her for months) but if someone does spot her during starlight you just need to cross reference what the underlying non-Starlight weather would've been at that time.
Just gotta make sure you don't touch Palace of the Dead, especially level 50. She stops appearing altogether if you've done that.
My assumption re: multiple instances of a weather type in weather tables was to create a "predominant" weather type, the same way it's "always" rainy in Seattle.
My guess for the doubled table ranges: it's to more heavily weight that type of weather in those areas. So you're twice as likely to experience fair skies in Mist than rain, and twice as likely to experience rain in Gridania.
I'm amazed how you made this entire thing with all the niche testing while missing one very very simple fact.
Stormdancer IS a Raincaller. Many of the Big Fish are, lorewise, simply an exceptional specimen of one of the fish from that hole. Stormdancers description is "A king among raincallers, and lord of the waters of the Jadeite Flood."
It's easy to see the reason, Raincaller works in Snow as to no break the quest, and Stormcaller works in Snow because whoever programmed it in thought it pertinent that the big Raincaller should be active when the normal ones are.
You're right that I should have mentioned this in the conclusion- but I have to disagree with you on it being very simple. Stormcaller being a big Raindancer and copying the conditions seems reasonable, but if you've gotten in the weeds with big fish you'll see that they often just don't match up very well with the small version at all- completely unrelated weather requirements, sometimes even different hooksets (i.e. precision vs powerful) - it is never a safe assumption that the big fish version of a fish will in any way mimic or mirror the non-big-fish version- even within Gridania, Carp Diem (big fish moat carp) is totally unavailable in Starlight while the small one is unaffected. Having concluded that it is most likely that snow ≠ rain, this is a very plausible explanation, but it isn't as straightforward as it seems at first blush.
While the Doylist reasoning holds, that's not really how video games work.
Honestly, I assume Stormcaller was updated because it was just in the same hole. They didn't plan on updating all the fish, and likely realized pretty late that "wait, that one quest gets locked out" so they went to update that one fishing hole and when they did they just went "well, might as well update that one too!" but didn't touch any other holes because they weren't relevant.
I'm not a fisher, so I don't know how likely any of this is, but:
On Raincaller/stormdancer: Could it just be that they didn't want to anything to affect the % chance to catch a raincaller for the quest? If raincaller was catchable during Starlight snow, but Stormdancer wasn't, that would mean Raincaller would occupy a larger ratio of the catch pool during Starlight than it was supposed to. They may have then added Stormdancer to the Starlight snow pool to make sure that your % chance to catch Raincaller was what it was supposed to be, rather than having it be easier during starlight (why only it was changed, and not the ones that didn't share a spot with Raincaller). You can make the argument that they already did that (by having it not rain dependent during Starlight), but they probly see a difference between changing the times you have to wait for it, and changing the amount of time you're actively fishing at that location.
On housing districts: I just assume this is them having a "common table" they copy/paste a lot with the same range values, and they just adjust the weather as necessary. Like at 8:54, Central/East/Lavender Beds all share the same ranges, and North/South share the same ranges. It's probably less that there's a "real" reason to duplicate weathers, and more that they just copy a table from elsewhere, and tweak it a bit ("South Shroud's supposed to be foggier, so change an extra or two to fog", etc), because nobody will know the difference anyway, except dataminers.
As far as ratios go, Raincaller isn't all that rare, especially during weather events where it can be caught. Stormdancer, as the designated Big Fish for that fishing hole, has very low catch odds that are supposed to be complicated by the weather, making it a challenge to obtain. Stormdancer's ratio is way higher than it should be during Starlight snow since weather can be completely disregarded for two whole weeks.
Raincallers are expected to all be caught within a single rain window for the level 40 fisher quest, with rain occurring multiple times in a real-life day, whereas Stormdancer has a window of 5:00pm-2:00am Eorzea Time (about 40 minutes in real-time) that normally needs to overlap with rain in order to have a chance at catching the fish. During Starlight, you only need to worry about the window, not the weather. It's not like Stormdancer is obscenely rare, but it's intended to be something you plan ahead of time for under normal weather conditions.
In all likelihood when changing raincaller a developer saw a second rain dependent fish spawn in that fishing hole and thought "why not?" And changed that fish as well. The only reason he didn't do the same for other fish is that it probably was to much of an bother to check which other fishing holes are effected by this
Exactly. Sometimes development decisions are just down to boring practical explanations like this. They had to fix the one fish for the quests, they fixed a second fish that was already in the same spot, but it wasn't worth their time to seek out every other weather dependent fish.
13:00 all weather conditions requirements necessary for normal quests are meet able by event weather such as snow during starlight.
it'd make sense for snow to count as rain as snow is just frozen rain...
My guess (and it is a GUESS) is that the way weather is implemented with fishing is with something akin to a "drop table" for the fishing hole that changes based on weather. While the system definitely supports plenty of specific criteria for particular fish, none of that matters if you're on the wrong drop table.
So SE's solution was to create an exception where fishing holes in Gridania used the "rain drop table" during Starlight Snow to prevent players from being locked out of the job quest. Under this theory, the explanation for Stormdancer is simply that they didn't bother adding an additional exception to its catch criteria to prevent it from appearing.
i always assume in every MMO that the christmas events have arteficial snow, given that it barely piles up or doesn't realy impact the temperature, as most cropfields and animals/mobs appear completly unaffected (maybe you get some new seasonal enemies that only appear during the event).
The easiest way to implement this one exception would be to ignore the weather table during starlight in the fishing code by adding that one specific fish to the list of catchable fish manually. It's the only place that requires it, it should be a couple of lines changed and would probably not generate too many side effects.
The doubled could just be a bunch of places where there was an old weather and they just changed the ids around instead of durations, or at some point the code required a fixed amount of weather changes per map, so they needed to break the longer ones in two.
i know there is an S rank that spawn requirements are dependent on the 2 x rain affect. If it spawns during the starlight celebration, then you could confirm there is rain
It spawns outside the cities- only the cities themselves are affected by Starlight Celebration. Everywhere else the regular weather is still happening.
i assumed it was rain cause when i tend to my crops it doesnt 'water' them it pulls out weeds. The watering can emote plays unless its raining, where the wol picks weeds instead. This snow has made it so I never take out the watering can.
1:07 That damn sightseeing log right there is something I had to wait for 2 weeks to get last year, lmao.
My guess is that they did a checkbox on "starlight snow" so people could catch it. and they also checked the stormdancer since its the same item icon, but with extra, so it was an mistake for the Stormdancer.
If you have a house and you garden on the regular, you will notice that you don't have to water your crops during Starlight Celebration. Enjoy. Also, the best place to catch Raincallers is in OG at the ferry docks. So... you need to do more testing and then repeat those results several times for it to have any value.
Gardens do need to be tended in the rain
...I'm so stupid, I totally forgot you could catch raincallers in whispering gorge. I'll need to address that. That's actually evidence for snow not being rain though, since it means there's no possibility of the weathers behaving differently in different halves of the city, and the lancers' guild isn't triggerable.
I'll need to look more into garden stuff- does the normal snow in Empyreum behave the same as rain in other housing districts?
it's easy to forget.
@@zankumo So far, since the snow started in The Goblet, I've only been weeding while tending my plants, never watering them.
@@AngelaRichter65 When it's raining and apparently snowing, the animation changes from watering to weeding, but it's still the same "Tending" option that you need to do
Thank you again for the brilliant weather report!
I hope we get an April fools weather report skit, that would be so good...
They probably did something like copy pasted the weather conditions from raincaller to stormdancer if i had to guess.
I think the simplest explanation says it best :
Raincaller is required for the lvl 40 FSH quest, and the two-week event would block progress on that. So they changed the [Rainy Weather] fishtable for Jadeite Flood to [Rainy/Snow Weather], something that is likely nothing more than a checkbox to enable. That fishtable also includes Stormdancer, the king of Raincallers, and while it would to possible to move it to its own fishtable, it would require more memory space and effort, for little purpose.
I do suspect that if BLU had a snow weather-affected action, it would trigger, as the weather itself is standard snow weather.
BLUE MAGE MENTIONED!!!!
So i guess that's why it always seems to be raining in Gridania? The fact that rain appears twice on the weather table?
I’m trying to come up with any possibilities for the unanswered question at 9:56, and I’m wondering why you think the Shroud doubled weather entries are an intentional design choice. (8:54) Is there an effect to having disjoint, duplicated table entries?
The way the weather in this game works is that it spits out a single number every 8 in-game hours and every single area in the game looks up that number in its weather table to figure out what the current weather is.
The shroud most likely splits up the weather like this so that it doesn't "sync up" with La Noscea or Thanalan, which is kind of a cool idea but they never did it again.
@ I see. It’s not about the effect on that zone’s weather (which is statistically identical to one combined entry) but the effect on how weathers across the world sync up. I hadn’t thought of that.
My assumption would be that it was less effort to change the requirements on that specific fishing hole than mess with the weather code or anything else. So while holiday snow doesn't equal rain, it does specifically for the Jadeite Flood fishing hole, only.
This is my hunch too.
The Lancers Guild log entry was on my mind from the start of this video because I actually tested that myself during starlight last year! So cool to see you address it even if it sorta debunked the theory. Great video!
great video!! i had never even heard about this before but was thoroughly engaged the whole time
According to Teamcraft, Stormdancer can be caught during Snow :p
Stormdancer is "a king among raincallers", so it makes sense that it should also be included if Raincallers let themselves be caught.
Raincallers are required to proceed the Fishing questline, which just cannot be blocked to players.
To add, in Old Gridania, you can catch Raincallers at Whispering Gorge, the pier close to the Lancer's guild.
I'm so glad there are niche little XIV weather/argument videos out there. Weather in particular is something I never think about much while playing. Really love these!
my theory, raincaller and stormdancer are made catchable easily due to the event taking 2 weeks. this is to not lock the fisher quest and make it incompletable for the 2 week event. Could also have some lore implication too as snow is frozen water... or rain... so thus it's treated as such, and the raincaller responds to all forms of rain... and stormdancer being "the king of raincallers" i mean... one can fill the blank...
I also wouldn't be surprised if both raincallerand stormdancer are build from the same template/prefab. The probably flicked a switch somewhere, or simply added a new tag to that fish template to make it catchable in snow. Especially in this case since stormdancer really just feels like a higher level duplicate of raindancer.
I know there have been some truly funky bug solutions in gaming over the years, but generally if you want to make exception code you do it on the smallest instance (a.k.a the fish or the fishing hole) so that it has the least possible chance of fucking up some other code. Weather itself is such a large system that you really don't want it itself to hold any exceptions since will cause such a mess down the line.
No, its Raincaller why Gridania has double rain. If i remember, it was changed somewhere in early 2.x patches because people complained they cant have quest done.
a video I didnt know I needed. Subs hittin hard❤
I'm not surprised this would come down to them just making a boring but practical change for the fish. The other fish might have just been changed because they were already editing the data for that pool and they updated it too while they were there etc.
can u do a video of job actions by NPCs? especially in DT where alisaie is a healer and has to use her vercures and vermedica action abilities? I feel like there is a lot of unused stuff in FFXIV
I've never finished an expansion's sightseeing log to check but I'm very sad if there's no New Game + mode for sightseeing, especially with the updates to add pictures and such.
Anyway thank you for the niche content!
As far as I'm aware there's no NG+ or equivalent for it :( too bad for all the very long time players too, the little picture pop ups are nice
this was riveting. it's so niche and doesn't affect anything for me, yet I was at the edge of my seat the whole time. thank you for doing these videos about the weather, they are so great
I would think because the fishing actually gives an item, they didn't want to block it for that period of time. The other things are just personal things, but the fish actually, although VERY minorly affects the economy, so they probably just wanted to avoid the fuss, and the reason it came up was the quest. While they were in the fishing table they just decided to alter all the fish similarly.
Waiting on Yoshi-P coming out and saying that the snow isn't snow nor reskinned rain, but that it's actually dandruff from the Lalafell God of Unkempt Hair.
It's probably just a flag or value that's been set to true for that one fishing hole to make rain-exclusive fish available for the duration of the Starlight season. That's why nothing else works, it's not rain nor has any tables been modified. Simply a flag that makes the game ignore any checks for matching weather conditions in that one spot so the rain-dependent fish are always available. And once the event ends the flag is cleared.
The desperation trying to prove it's rain and it not working is so funny
Real detective work on something very pointless... I love it!
Man do I love me a good spaghetti code investigation video
It's just a starlight miracle that stormdancer can be caught!
Your testing is sound to me, I waited to say the umbrella thing but you got it when I watched more, fun vid and I'll look forward to more stuff!
Is it possible the weather is strange in the Black Shroud areas due to it also being tied to the Odin fate, and the special weather effect Tension?
I don't think so personally- Tension just kind of gets layered on top of the local weather (doesn't show up when you talk to Skywatcher NPCs, etc) and doesn't really interact with the "real" weather at all- you can still catch weather-dependent fish and complete sightseeing log entries through it. I don't think they would have built the weather tables with it in mind.
@CafColeo Fascinating! I didn't realize that, but it makes sense
Regarding the 'double' weather stacking for Mist and Gridania and the Great Why haunting you - it may have to do with environmental storytelling from the back end. Gridania just - gets a lot of rain due to its proximity to Ramuh, a healthy weather cycle due to the Conjurers. As for The Mist having 'double' the chance for clear skies - so toons can enjoy the beach more often. For the same reason I can always laugh that Camp Drybone seems to always be raining whenever I go visit.
The thing is, the "doubled" weather doesn't make the weather more *common* - it's just that instead of being, to make up an example, a 30% chance of thunder, it's a 10% chance and a 20% chance.
It counts as rain for gardening.
I've never heard of this being a debate to be honest.
To me it’s glamor snow, except in Empyreum. No frost breath, no real snow.
As someone who is only missing spearnose in order to finish all arr, this is annoying actually lol.
I'm going to make a guess that the answer is in fishing itself. I'm going to guess that the Stormcaller is just a chance catch off the Raincaller, effectively giving a x% chance whenever you'd catch a Raincaller. So the Raincaller was given the chance to be caught during the snow to prevent lockout of the quest, and the Stormcaller was not altered at all allowing it to be caught "at a chance whenever a Raincaller is hooked"
This sounds like the most logical answer.
I'm not sure about that personally- big fish exist independently of the small version even if they look similar. You can use the skill surface slap to eliminate all Raincallers from the Jadeite Flood and still catch Stormdancers easily, for example, and the time/weather conditions are often completely unrelated for the big/small versions of other big fish.
@@CafColeo I really think it's just dumber than that. Patchwork code from early times is always especially cryptic, so I genuinely believe that the Stormcaller's conditions probably includes "Is Raincaller on the fishing table?" as a check rather than checking all the same conditions to save cycles. Raincaller condition was changed to include snow to prevent the 2 week lockout, which checks that condition for Stormcaller.
Surface Slap doesn't remove Raincaller from the list, just deletes it as an option from the catch table.
I legit think it's just someone trying to be smart with coding accidentally making a weird interaction.
this is what i subscribed for!!!!!
I don't even play FFXIV anymore but this kind of weird niche stuff is interesting
I have played since HW, and never once have I ever payed any notice to the weather mechanics of the game. I only knew it existed, but never really cared about it.
Fun video though, have a new sub :)
I was like why does this guy know so much then I remembered your weather system video for ishgardian housing :D
Yer quite clever :3 If you know anything about gardening that be helpful let me know!
The hell kind of debate is this lol... They literally say it is cold. The entire purpose of the reward is because it is cold. And when rain gets cold, it turns to snow. It is snow. It has always been snow.
It's reasonable to look for the simplest explanation. The problem is... sometimes, the simplest explanation is not simple.
I dunno, that other fish looks like a Raincaller full of Starlight cheer. Don't see anything missing here. Nope. Not at all. [But really it probably is just 'changed to rain']
The answer is clearly that it's the Saint of Nymeia's doing 😌
Why is this a debate, the answer is obvious, IT'S A STARLIGHT MIRACLE! :D
ITS AN ALLAGAN CONSPIRACY
This content is the nerdiest shit I’ve ever seen. Subscribed.
I love how similar this winds up being to a Flat Earther video. Flat Hydaelyner?
Pretty cool. Fun vid
This is a debate? It's an event, they flip a switch if event weather was real then it would only snow in places where snow is available. More than likely, square has a flag for the fish that happens with events and are on specific stuff.
That entire game is like a horse with a broken, infected leg. It needs to be put down before the infection starts spreading to other things.
L clickbait
Disliked because lispy voice