Autism Spectrum Disorder vs. Borderline & Narcissistic Personality Disorders
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- Опубліковано 5 лют 2025
- This video answers the question: How can we differentiate autism spectrum disorder from personality disorders? Specifically, when I talk about autism spectrum disorder, I'm referring to the high-functioning end of the autism spectrum and a presentation that doesn't have intellectual impairment. When we talk about autism spectrum disorder, we know that this particular type of presentation is often diagnosed late in life, it's often misdiagnosed, and a lot of the time it's confused with personality disorders. Autism spectrum disorder and personality disorders share a few different things in common and one of those features is they're both ego-syntonic, which means that there's a lack of insight it.
Autism spectrum disorder is listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM) and here we see this disorder is characterized by deficits in social communication and social interaction as well as restrictive, repetitive patterns of behavior, interest, and activities. Borderline Personality Disorder and Narcissistic Personality Disorder are both Cluster B Personality Disorder. With BPD we see a pattern of unstable relationships, unstable mood, impulsivity, identity disturbance, anger, a chronic feeling of emptiness, and we also see an increased risk of suicidal ideation, gestures, threats, and other behaviors. NPD characteristics like being arrogant, jealous, having a lack of empathy, requiring excessive admiration, tending to manipulate people, and having a sense of entitlement.
Dudas, R. B., Lovejoy, C., Cassidy, S., Allison, C., Smith, P., & Baron-Cohen, S. (2017). The overlap between autistic spectrum conditions and borderline personality disorder. PLoS ONE, 12(9), 1-13.
Strunz, S., Westphal, L., Ritter, K., Heuser, I., Dziobek, I., & Roepke, S. (2015). Personality Pathology of Adults With Autism Spectrum Disorder Without Accompanying Intellectual Impairment in Comparison to Adults With Personality Disorders. Journal of Autism and Developmental Disorders, 45(12), 4026-4038.
I was diagnosed at 16 with ADHD. After doing years of my own research I suspected that I had Autism Spectrum Disorder (specifically Asperger's Syndrome - which they no longer use as a diagnosis). I went through full psychological testing about two years ago, at 37 years old, and I was diagnosed with PTSD, ADHD, and Autism Spectrum Disorder. I think a lot of people don't realize that autism presents differently in females than in males. Dr. Tony Attwood has done a lot of work on females with Asperger's Syndrome. Thank you so much for your videos and insight, Dr. Grande. I appreciate you so much!
Tony Attwood missed his son's diagnosis for decades-that is how hard ASD is to spot
I had several therapists tell me that I didn't have autism. I had done extensive research and I knew that's what it was. I finally got the diagnosis after putting myself through the psychological testing when I found a therapist who took me seriously. I am sure that plenty of males go undetected but females are very good at masking the symptoms. Outwardly I probably look and seem very normal... especially as I get older. I grew up in the 80's and 90's... I was probably just seen as a very shy, introverted, and highly intelligent child by most people but I always knew that something was very different.
Ive seen Dr. Atwoods videos on youtube .
@@xfreespirit1979x Likewise. Since I was very young I knew something 'was a bit different' but age 48 I now believe undiagnosed high-functioning autism is the root of my issues. Previously I have described myself as a woman with a boy brain. I enjoy working with other male techs because they are straighforward, say what they mean, argue logically and just maybe we understand each other well in our own autistic bubble!
I have been capable of the most naive social gaffs albeit I feel nothing but kindness towards and willingness to help others. I'm now superaware of my behaviour although I always worked hard to fit in. Obsessive-compulsive behaviour and generalized anxiety are a relentless fact of life for me too.
Overall the combination makes me very good at my technical role, for I am a meticulous analyst and very conscientious. I wouldn't rule out other disorders, especially as my gullibility left me open to being taken advantage of in previous relationships (fortunately I finally got with a wonderful life partner who, unsurprisingly, is similar in his desire for order), but wonder if traumatic experiences have created an element of CPTSD.
@@Irene-gq4jr I had a very traumatic childhood and some traumatic relationships in my adulthood, I had no idea I had PTSD until two years ago so I am still learning about that, there are several great UA-cam channels, books, websites, FB groups for that and I see a trauma specialist weekly at this point. I'm glad you have a wonderful partner, I'm sure that helps a lot! Finding others who understand, relate, validate, and support you are very important in healing.
I recently asked my psychiatrist about the possibility of my having ASD rather than BPD and he nearly laughed me out of his office! He said that the two were SO incredibly different that there was NO WAY I could have been misdiagnosed. Wish you were my doc, Doc.
I got the same reaction from a doctor I had once. He told me since I showed emotions that I couldn't be on the spectrum and that people with Asperger's were really smart like geniuses and basically thought I was just looking for attention. It was incredibly offensive how he reacted to me just asking about it.
Same here, I don’t have that diagnoses but I feel like I might and only mentioned to a psych nurse/therapist that a friends husband had it just asking about it and she rudely said YOU DONT have that.
Tabitha Lockhart fake doctor is what you have
That’s pretty sad and disappointing. I wonder in a few years he might understand or change. It seems like your dr is ignorant. He may learn but it’s disappointing.
There's a youtuber, yo sammidy sam (if I'm spelling that right) who finally got diagnosted with ASD at 33... at one point she was diagnosed with BPD. I can see how autistic meltdowns and troubled relationships can from the outside look like BPD.
Autistic people are absolutely capable of empathy. In fact we are often more empathetic than nerotyoicals. Just because someone with ASD is not super physically affectionate and outgoing doesn't mean they aren't capable of empathy or compassion. Being bullied for being different your whole life makes you trust very few, and that can come across as cold. I am autistic and once cried because I found a bee drowning in an ashtray, but most people think I'm unapproachable until they get to know me and find out I'm actually a total dork.
I approve of this message.
The bee story is so relatable 🤣💕
HUGS!!! My daughter is autistic and she is very cuddly, affectionate, and genuinely cares about people.
For autistics it's much more going on inside than one can see it outside. That's why people think they lack empathy. The feelings are very much there, they're just not capable of expressing it.
@cece They cried when they found a bee drowning in an ashtray, and you're asking them if they have a hard time feeling empathy for strangers?
There are so many adults (particularly women) that have had a lifetime of struggling with a misdiagnosis...struggling to function in a world they don't understand and a world that doesn't understand them. They suffer through being bullied and ridiculed for being different, and are often abused and exploited by selfish people. We need greater awareness for women (and men) with undiagnosed or misdiagnosed ASD and we need a better means for them to receive testing and proper help. Many are impoverished and can't afford the testing and help they need.
Yes 🙌 that’s my issues I have struggled with all my life.. I need to get diagnosed properly but don’t have the funds to get treatment that would probably change my life… thank you for mentioning that!!
This doesn’t exclusively apply to women, though. I know you included men as well, it just sounded like you were implying that women with ASD somehow suffer more than men with ASD, which I don’t fully agree with. I think both types of people suffer altogether, just in different ways
@@CT--jv2ur
I was mainly referring to the females that didn't get diagnosed simply because they were female. If they had been male, they would have been diagnosed. It's not worse in women, but the lack of diagnosis in women has been detrimental to their overall well being.
Well and succinctly said. Plus, women are better at masking symptoms in their attempts to navigate the neurotypical world.
A world WE dont want to understand is more like it
It’s very tricky. I was diagnosed as BPD at 19 years old, and then at 27 I was diagnosed ASD. Fairly typical in a young woman, I am now learning. My Drs still haven’t decided if I have both, of if BPD was a misdiagnosis and the autism was just being missed. There’s a lot more research needed in this area I feel.
High? DEFINITELY. But I don't know that I'd ever accuse myself of "functioning".
♥✌
Ayyyy livin like Larry that’s the way to do it
@Daniel Anderson 1) it was a joke. 2) how do you know they dont work
@Daniel Anderson jesus christ wtf got ur panties in a bunch 😂
@@n3k0rrrb 😄
As someone with "High functioning Autism" whatever this means^^, I feel like people might be misinformed and think of me as a narcissist which doesn't help.
I feel your pain, its as if the second they're made aware, somehow I'm suddenly a monster... or maybe they thought that all along. sorry to hear it happens to you too
@@ghostofsilence2697 you calling me a monster!? 😱😱
Liom: I have that happen to me too. To be fair, my mother WAS a narcissist. Two long time friends of the family who were therapists agreed on that. It is very likely that she had Aspergers, too. So, while I do not think that I am narcissistic, I was raised by a narcissist and that definitely led to my behaving in a narcissistic way for a long time. anyhow, it gets complicated.
People who have interaction with a narc know the difference. I know both and autism tends toward sweeter people who just process differently whereas narcs know your feelings but don't care and use them as weapons against you.
I think that symptom you're describing is called "echoism" when you fear being a narcissist. But the devils in the details in the story of narcissus because Narcissists dont lack the coordination to escape a shallow pool of their own reflection but aspies and auties do. Not to mention how much time a narcissus(aut=greek word for self) spends obsessing over both self & others, attempting to reflect accurately, something that never even crosses a narcissist's mind. 🧩🙃 I hope that helps you recover from NAS(Narcissistic abuse syndrome AKA echoism) faster.
I apparently have ASD, ADHD, and BPD. And Bipolar. So basically I have "alphabet soup" disorder.
@Maharaj 22 I know someone in a similar situation--exhibiting so many symptoms of so many PDs and other disorders that identifying with any single one doesn't make much sense. Peace
fiona scheibel lol alphabet soup
That literally made me LOL.
That sounds like me.. but how the heck do you deal with it.. therapy?
@@mizread Some of those disorders can be treated with a combination of medication and therapy. But autism can not be treated with medication and talk therapy has had limited success.
By the way, this kind of "Co-morbidity" is not uncommon at all. I have heard it referred to as "The buffet table."
But if you had all those conditions, you would need a very skilled therapist to deal with it. Bipolar disorder can be managed with meditation. But ADHD is generally treated with stimulants which could be very dangerous for a person who is bipolar. And so can some anti-depressants. So, it gets complicated. I would recommend getting the bi-polar disorder stabilized first, and work on the other stuff later because it is the most destabilizing of all those conditions. For that, you will need a therapist who can prescribe medication.
I dated both, ASD and NPD , there is nothing really common between them. If you hurt autistic person and say sorry they are happy to take you back with an open arms, there are naivety there, they are also non expressive of their feelings, vs narcissist, will show you with attention, will be very quick to say I love you and god forbid you hurt their feelings, he will be hurting your till he see you death.
You’re describing the grandiose narcissist. Read about the vulnerable narcissist. They look identical to ASD males and some ASD females. And you can have both ASD and NPD!
@@Wes-TylerSounded more like vulnerable narcissist
I'm a male just got out of the relationship with a young lady who told me that she was on the spectrum, very intelligent, had a lot of incredible things going for her in my mind as a person. I have dated borderlines briefly but I have a good feeling for what that's all about and I've dated narcissistic people though I don't know that they would be full-blown NPD that's quite rare.
The bottom line though was that the young lady with the autism that I was mentioning for however high functioning she was ultimately feeling like just narcissism as their key defect - it really was all about them, black-and-white thinking and could be very adversarial but out of the blue. I kept taking her back but in the end enough was enough. I'll never know if there's comorbidity and I don't really care, all I know is that if this is what dating ASD is like, what's the difference to me as the partner If it feels like I've been dating someone with full-blown NPD. Was a terrible experience. Sad all around if that's the case for everybody who has it...
Honestly I feel it's a stretch to say they are super different. Autism can definitely come across as narcissism especially when the person doesn't even make an effort with social ques, situations, etc. I say this as someone who is dating someone diagnosed autistic and i love him so very much. I try very very hard not to blame him and I understand narcissism can be had by someone with autism and everyone will be narcissistic to a point. But my reason for this is if you are struggling really hard and the person only every acknowledges themselves and their interests and their life and how things affect them. Even despite that you are asking for help and being so up front about needing support. For them to respond indifferent to your struggle and make no effort to dig deeper and you realize they barely if ever at all inquire about you in depth meanwhile you do it with them constantly. And you bring it up and they respond tht they justbdont understand and are sorry and tell you "youll figure it out im sure". It really can start to look like an autistic person is narcissistic. When all the things you do are primarily based off what they want to do instead of it being a we thing or something you are interested and they never make an effort to do things you're interested despite that you do it for them constantly. It looks narcissistic. Same for the situation of people modernly diagnosing themselves and demanding pitty and understanding while turning on everyone else and neglecting their humanity to claim personal attention on themselves for being "autistic". Overall it's giving it a bad look.
I've Asperger's.Hi function. I'm empathic. How could I go thru nearly 3 years at Uni studying counselling psych and being cold? I'm generous, feeling, mindful of others etc. sometimes gotta put the 'barriers' up when a narcissist kicks up but I've yet to face one who didn't back down WHEN I open my mouth. I'm in Christ, too, and proud of it. And I know humility very well. Thankyou.😊
Thank you for clarifying this. I was always mistaken as just being narcissistic, judgmental, and a bitch as an Asperger's girl. But I really just didn't know how to socialize and masked my symptoms so well to fit in. But it wasn't quite enough to come off as entirely normal, so I was misunderstood and bullied.
Ask yourself this: Who is defective? You yourself or the normal (?) bully. It always baffles me how people with social problems are always isolated from the rest of the world when it comes to diagnosis of their personality. As long as one is average one is seen as non-problematical. Even by the, so called, professionals.
@@marcbrasse747you seem to have misread her comment. She said she was a narcissistic bitch and was bullied because of it. Bullying is definitely problematic, but so is being a narcissistic bitch.
My mother wasn't diagnosed as autistic until she was in her 70's. She suffered terrible childhood trauma, and never received the proper help or diagnosis as an adult. I believe she had multipule comorbid personality disorders. As far as the rest of my family, there are multipule diagnosed autistics, both on my maternal and paternal side of the family. All four of my children are autistic, as am I. The difference between mom and me is that I took my children and went to a fabulous family therapist for over a decade. Our therapist was neurodiversity friendly and worked with each of us privately, and in group sessions if needed. It has made all the difference. We are all also on good medications to help with our personal comorbid conditions, like depression, anxiety and ADHD. Thank you for making these videos. You help me continue to heal from my own traumatic childhood, growing up with a mentally ill mother. You have also helped me to forgive her, and not take her mental illness personally. Keep up the good work.
I think the reason why clinicians would want to keep separate ASD from personality disorders is because ASD is a neurological condition. Quite another can of worms from personality disorders.
Yes. Thank you for making that distinction. Autism is profoundly misunderstood.
I agree. Personality/character disorders tend to be more concerned with the 'software' of what makes up a person, while ASD as a neurological condition is about the 'hardware', i.e. the physical wiring of the brain.
But psychopathy is neurological too. And that's a personality disorder.
@@cjstats1514 as is HPD, NPD, BPD...there's roughly a 50% genetic component and 50% nurture component with each cluster B disorder. A child who has a genetic disposition to a cluster B disorder because one, or both, of their parents have a cluster B disorder, will likely end up with a cluster B disorder. The same may be the case with Autism. Many 'high functioning' autistism spectrum people are never diagnosed.
@@maddogmac1 Not true at all. The only cluster B disorder that has that high of a genetic component is psychopathy. You may want to do some research.
No one on the internet would be as precise and conscious as Dr. grande when it comes to very touchy and picky subjects. Thank you so much, all this free content I really can't get over how precious this is !!
My family pushed me to get tested for Asperger's (ASD) when I was in my 20s and was diagnosed with Schizoid PD instead. The older I get the more I believe I was misdiagnosed and really have ASD. I would love a video comparing ASD and SPD.
nah bruv they label people they can't control,
You can change your personality if you discipline yourself correctly
give up the VICES learn self mastery and they will FEAR YOU.
I can see confusion there.
They definitely overlap ...thanks for pointing that out.
A schizoid person would not wonder about it. And I heard that they seem to not be interested about others at all, or not wanting to communicate even if they had a chance. It's much more rare than ASD too.
IMO ASD is the latest fad in the psychology/psychiatry field. Something like the fad of transgender. Everyone seems to be jumping on these bandwagons of late. Both are considered to be 'cool'. Psychology/psychiatry are the farthest thing from exact science.
Thank you for making this!
I had been trying to explain this to people who misunderstand that you can look normal and have a normal IQ and be autistic.
None are Doctors mind you, But it had been exhausting explaining that I had specifically Asperger's and had PTSD from narcissistic mother abuse.
People did not seem to understand how similar that ptsd and AS together can be to some personality disorders.
THANK YOU Dr Grande!
I am sharing this because you went into a lot of explaining on the overlap and differences!
You can also have excessive empathy with Autism as well. I experience this as do many others. The problem is you generally only see the expression of when we feel like we are in a safe place or if a meltdown is completely unavoidable. I get choked up when certain songs play just because the message in them is so poignant. Or like when watching documentaries. I will cry just thinking about the sound of the baby orca in Black Fish calling out for its mother and the ache in her return call when they were forcefully seperated.
I had a student with that type of autism. He would lose control and breakdown if we ever discussed anything sad in class. (It is very hard to teach American History when even mentioning slavery would set him off). On the other hand it was very endearing to see a kid so openly upset about injustice. I wish there were more resources to help a child in this situation.
I totally relate to this!
I can relate. I cry when I see or hear any type of suffering.
My daughter had autism and she is kind and highly empathetic. Keep shining and know that there are people who see your heart ❤️
Omg, this is me. I would have to blame it on hormones just to get my ex to stop making fun of me. Never understood animal docs that HAD to put the suffering in them either. I understand it's nature but why would you want to watch that?
This hit really close to home, thank you so much!! For years I was trying to figure out what was wrong with me, I would self-diagnose constantly. I self diagnosed borderline, narcissistic, bipolar, depression, OCD, ASPD... well, it turns out I’m just autistic. And I really hope this video helps people like me
Edit: OH MY GOSH!! “They are less interested in other people’s mental states”- that is an amazing way to put it! And very true
Are you a female out of curiosity?
I love the way you made it so easy to understand the difference between 3 very complex disorders, in less than 15 minutes! Thank you again and again Dr. Grande!
You are quite welcome!
We need more studies and analysis on this topic. They all have ADHD symptoms. I see a lot of overlapping. Thanks DR. Grande!
Strong disagree- the person in my life who I’m closest to sure about NPD about is definitely nowhere near ADHD. He’s miraculously efficient, hardly ever procrastinates, loses things or gets overwhelmed.
@@lindseytallent2855 actually I know a narcissist myself who is very type A and does not have ADHD either. They do come in different flavors.
I know high functioning ASDs that definitely do not have ADHD.
It’s pretty common for people with ASD to also have ADHD.
Thanks Dr. Grande.It's good to see competence with clarity. Good man!
You're welcome!
ow, great video! just what i needed. i recently diagnosed myself with Aspereger's syndrome. i thought for quite a while that i have a combination of some personality disorders and depression. but, even though it was the closest thing i found to what i have it wasn't enough, it didn't explain many things that bothered me (like awkwardness, and feeling different all my life but with no actual validation, even the opposite).
i think that the main issue was that because i have ASD i couldn't explain how i feel until i learned to put it in words myself by reading and searching (alot) i mean, at the time that i read about having special interests i realized that this was one.
when i saw therapists as a kid and teenager i would camouflage as a normal kid by what i would think would be the best "script", because i was scared to upset my parents, they overlooked so much that it's crazy and they pushed me to (pretend to) behave normal. so i was like any other kid, except having huge "explosions" very often and suffer great deal for that.
before i diagnosed myself even with personality disorders, i couldn't explain more than the "obvious" that i knew. so i could only say things that show that i have depression, unless they would really ask and look for it. but they never did and i knew what you're supposed to say. that's one of the things i hate most, that the mask works even on the people you come to for help.
i think that the reason people are diagnosed later than childhood, is because, unless you dig real deep, only the person with the (high functioning) ASD can find out they have it.
I would say it would be good to talk about schizoid and how it differs from autism spectrum disorder.
I have received Schizotypal and autism spectrum disorder. This is not supposed to possible. I think the autism spectrum disorder comes from that I am quite good at sciences (graduate degree) hence I have logical capabilities on top of this weird openness I was born with including religious experiences I had a s a child. I must say that I find routines hard to follow and I'm very bad at sensory stuff.
@@tonnikala9368 sensory stuff?
Today the criteria of professionals is so poor and they just have 1 o2 hour sessions to distiguish each other, and that is very difficult in some cases. But it already exist techniques of medical diagnosis by retina and the thickness of macula. If schizoid is related to schizophrenia it doesn't seem the patterns for the diagnosis are the opposite from autism.
@@tonnikala9368 how were they able to diagnose both when the dsm V forbids it?
@@hemprope4326 "how were they able to diagnose both when the dsm V forbids it?"
Tonni Kala is Finnish. DSM is American, maybe it's not used in Finland.
As an adult with autism and bipolar disorders I'm often trying to learn more and more about the complex miriad of mental conditions. I've consulted hundreads of sources and your video is really unique. Thank you very much, hugs from Brazil.
I was diagnosed with BPD in 2001 and hospitalized for suicidal ideation. There I was diagnosed with Bipolar II. Years of re-hospitalizations and heavy medications followed. Turns out I was actually on the spectrum, ASD 1/High functioning autism also known as Asperger's. Since then I have analyzed my behaviors in light of the correct diagnosis, and do see the many similarities between the three diagnoses. At the same time, the misdiagnoses were preventable.
Hi, K.
We are very similar with Bipolar.
Have you tested for MTHFR and tried Deplin?
Depakote worked wonders with me except the weight gain was horrible.
Luvox was very good.Control OCD very well.
Trazdone was too sedating.
Ativan 1mg 3x daily did little.
I did a short stint of antipsychotics and I'll never go back even on a two mgs of Abilify is horrible for me.
One thing I learned about my BP is that my B12 levels really make a difference with my Bipolar.
I see my Neurologist(for vertigo) every three months and my Pdoc every month. Neurologist is on board with helping my Bipolar beyond just pharmaceuticals.
We test my B12 every 6 months along with M.Acid test too.
My high homocysteine is proof positive that B12 is not being processed and MTHFR is a huge issue in my body. Diet, proper sleep and exercise are key for me.
I get B12 shots every three months and that for me has made my Bipolar a lot better.
I get a mix of all three active B12. Not the el cheapo man made CyanB12 found in foods.
I have lots more if you need.
See you on your next video, K.
I never would have thought any of these were similar, at ALL before I watched this video, which is why I clicked on it, and I'm glad I did as someone diagnosed. Thank you for making this video and many related.
People with ASD are highly empathetic but they are at a danger of shutting down over repeated experiences of being hurt by those we extend our empathy too. It’s almost like the valve is either totally open or totally shut and the latter happens when we are feeling overwhelmed and go into self protection mode.
Edit: if we seem cold it just means we are numbing out. Or rather we feel it inside but it is too risky and stressful to express it
This is fantastic. His ability to have these unbelievably complex, overlapping topics is one thing. While speaking in a way which is related, direct and clear. No bias whatsoever. This guy really understands on another level on more then just these topics. Bet my life. 💯
Dr. Grande did say this but I want to make it clear and state it again because it is a point that is often misunderstood. High functioning ASD has the same ability to feel empathy and sympathy but they may have difficulty recognizing it. Understand the difference? These are people who have difficulty sometimes reading a person or a situation but once they do, they feel just as much as anyone, dare I say even more so. I am at my limit with people thinking and saying ASD have "no empathy or sympathy", like they are a bunch of robot like Data's from Star Trek. Part of the reason, as Dr .Grande said, for the self injurious behavior displayed sometimes is because of feeling so so much. Or the hand flapping when happy or distressed. They feel as much or more than most people they just show it differently, so it would be nice if the neurotypicals out there could "show some empathy" and get a clue and understand ASD's.
Thankyou for this, my Aspie heart finally feels understood. I hate that I get painted as the villain in life because of my Autism and they point fingers and say that we are emotionless robots who can’t do anything about it, when it’s simply just not true, heck I cry every single time I see somebody else cry because I have so much love, care and compassion in my heart and I just want to hug those people and tell them that they’re not alone and I’m there to listen and help. I hate the misconception that autistic people are not empathetic because it’s a load of wham 😔
@@trickstersenses Thank you for saying that so beautifully. I can personally confirm that. 👍
I can't tell that I've hurt someone until they say something and then I feel really horrible, especially since everyone expects you to know you hurt them because apparently there was something obvious that they did to tell you before they resorted to words. I wish people would use words as a first resort rather than a last resort.
I think it depends. My autistic friend constantly says he “fakes human emotion”
Sorry Nancy but that’s completely untrue. Sorry
I appreciate that you took your time to produce this video, mr Grande.
What i find very interesting about your layout, is the propensity of being discerning, objective - and adhering to the
underlying facts in terms of being critical.
I furthermore, find that your distinction is one of great importance - As i upon personal attempts of trying to discern the
genotypes, phenotypes and other forms of integrations - have stumbeled upon chasms of information.
It can, truly - be difficult to verse in a digestable matter - without being a neuroscientist.
Thank you.
I am a female diagnosed as having asd during a thorough testing and interview with a psychologist. When I was younger I was diagnosed bpd by a psychologist who saw me for only an hour-long of interview. My son and grandson both have ASD.
Thank you! You are 1000% correct. High functioning is difficult to diagnose. I've been married 32 years, 28 undiagnosed. It has been very difficult. I thought my spouse was NPD but I see the differences now. 1, someone with ASD wants fewer clothes meant for function more than style (less so in females) and may prefer specific textures. My husband got annoyed if anyone bought him long-sleeved shirts -- it wasn't an autism bell ringer back then. I think NPD is more likely to dress to impress. 2. When I asked my spouse to put himself in my shoes the first time, he replied, " I can't put myself in your shoes. That's a hypothetical." Whatttt? Haha, funny now. He still cannot. NPD can but chooses not to. 3. Echolalia. It's not always obvious but is frequent. Usually occurs watching TV. He will often repeat the last word of a statement in a commercial or movie. It isn't socially awkward so I never realized it until after his diagnosis. 4. ASD will talk about special interests and may be unaware if someone has zoned out. Extremely detailed in description. Gives every detail of how to fix the motorcycle from start to finish. NPD, probably not as it isn't charming conversation. ASD, when younger married will buy you logical gifts like socks or a blender. Needs are > wants. Many ASD will need you to tell them what you want. Subtle hints for gifts don't work or aren't remembered. Tell them straight up. Your first gift may arrive without a card and inside the store's plastic bag with receipt inside (usually more males); NPD not sure but I suspect charm you with gifts when needed and wrap them. ASD may instantly put hands to ears if a child screams or another high pitched noise occurs. It really hurts them too. I noticed my hubby's playlist has songs with lyrics that are less about emotion. This is because he doesn't operate on emotion unless he's in sensory overload which means anger & dynamite explosion. We're learning. Every adult I know with autism is fragile to criticism but I think it is because they are VERY tender hearted rather than injured like NPD though some were teased as kids. ASD memories are not great. I am told by two family members that they have to get rid of the information they deem not useful anymore. There is no room for it. ASD will completely forget a bad fight after a few weeks or months. They often forget your faults and mistakes so this is nice. Many ASD people trust others to a fault and are rarely jealous. NPD...no. Some ASD are the funniest people you will ever meet -- serious comedians, I'm not kidding. Others are business like, some prudish. Some are extremely shy and when someone they don't know talks to them their brain literally blacks out. They can't find words to respond. Not NPD. Kids with undiagnosed ASD will come home from school and isolate or may cry. They have unintentionally been role-playing all day. It can be exhausting. One may struggle in school while another gets straight A's. My ASD family members have bionic energy levels except one. They may be mechanical but not mathematical or the reverse. I help my spouse with technology but he can build a motorcycle from scratch. I'm sorry for my long reply. There are just so many things. I can think of so many non NPD signs, but I see the similarities with NPD and BPD. In ASD, opinions are rigid and hard to change. Tasking is huge in ASD. Prior to medication, anxiety can cause a constant state of tasking which gives me anxiety too! It must be done now even if it really doesn't. ASD, skilled at getting you to see the movie they want or food they like but not manipulation. They simply speak their minds strongly. A large percentage like anime and gaming but not all. If they pay attention to one hobby to the exclusion of all else, including spouse, that might be ASD. Driving and talking is hard. Driving downtown in a big city may lead to sensory overload and parking panic. My hubby used to open the fridge and pull all the ingredients out while announcing the name of each when all he wanted was some lunch. I think it's good to be open about autism. If you aren't, society will fill in the blank with a negative and is usually NPD. Also, one more thing. Both father and son say emotion is very strong in their dreams as opposed to awake. Son believes it is because when awake he is required to keep the brain line open for daily function and there is no room to process emotions when in working day mode. Maybe that will help some distinguish. 😁 Hope I didn't offend.
Thank you SO much for giving superb examples of ASD that you have diligently and brilliantly observed. The insights you've gained and shared in response to Dr. Grande's illuminating video on this matter are so validating and offer an opportunity for us all to feel empowered with knowledge. So appreciated!
75% of what you said described my husband of 7 years. His anger and expectations are so high that my church has put me up in an apartment so he won't be able to scream at me when he feels "crossed" by not answering him fast enough or having the schedule laid out well enough or get enough done... His mom said he was sensitive, but he hardly can pick up on emotional cues in others, he remembers full lines from movies he doesn't care about after first watch, only practical clothes, needs help doing practical things but is too proud to acknowledge it out loud. He can be very funny and carefree at times. Can obsess about topics unmatched by anyone else I've ever met. Cares but has a hard time with showing emotion. Easily offended. Needs help with gift giving sometimes. Sooooo many similarities. Repeats words. Seems like a funny cute joke, but now I really think it's a thing... He converses easily with strangers, but his dad made him learn growing up. Is very painful marriage. Beautiful moments, but much pain. I am from childhood abuse and wounds, so I didn't know we weren't ready enough to get married. I'm sad it has happened this way.
I'm textbook autistic and a former partner of mine has Borderline Personality Disorder. We are so very different. Yes our relationship was codependency as you can imagine. I believe an expert could easily see the differences between the two with adequate training/experience. Fortunately neither of us are narcissistic, we have enough on!
Excellent video. The fact that so many on the spectrum, are diagnosed late in life, makes it extremely hard on the family who are trying to love, reach and support someone with ASD. If only there was a definitive test. Then people could get the support and understanding and education they need. Without it there can be a lot of conflict, misunderstanding and blame.
I think it is gender issue problem. Not LGBTQ, Trans, but treat female autism as male. It's like treat female heart attacks as male heart attacks it is not the same.
I have been suspected of having ASD for a long time, of course that would be high functioning, and for that time I was very confused as to how I could define and identify myself. Something I also think is overlooked by the mental health community is not only the supposed advantages of certain disorders, but also being on the spectrum and not really being a "sick" person, what most people call "high functioning", but I think it more than just being a high functioning individual. In my case, at the same time I am very unaware of others inner emotions or how to comfort them etc, I am very good at smelling lies or spotting manipulative behavior, usually I'm among the first to recognize a narcissist or psychopath, and also because of the ability to recognize patterns and due to having a good memory I can notice what's behind people's action, something i don't see neutypicals having very often. I'm usually calm and not violent, but I'm very capable of intense focus and direction, which gives me a "stare" look and sometimes that scares people. What I find interesting about ASD is that there is a set of traits and cognitive abilities specific to that condition and most of the time is not due to trauma, like high visual intelligence, good memory, precise logical thinking etc. And I can see the similarities to NPD, BPD and even ASPD, I admit that I'm very self absorbed most of the time and can appear narcissistic, but differently from NPD I really don't care about others attention or recognition, and don't need to put anyone down to feel better, nor do I have jealousy(maybe except in intellectual matters). For some of these reasons sometimes I thought I was psychopathic or was confused with one, perhaps that's because psychopaths are more self aware than NPD's, don't care about external admiration, have low neuroticism and have logical thinking, but I realized that I wasn't one because I'm not impulsive at all, have high moral standards, no sadism and can sacrifice myself for others. Thanks!
Thank you for recording and posting this educational video. Most sincerely, one who has been/or continues to be "under the influence of undiagnosed autism"
Todd, thank you for this interesting talk. I love the way you impart your knowledge in a sensitive way. It’s absolutely crucial to get diagnoses correct isn’t it, and your talks help with this. In my experience (and I think you mentioned this) individuals with high functioning ASD can experience lower functioning cognitive empathy but well functioning emotional empathy, whereas this is flipped with the cluster B disorders. They have a tendency to have well functioning cognitive empathy but an impaired ability to feel emotional empathy. Another observation I have is that Cluster B personality disorders have a tendency to be interpersonally manipulative, but I don't think this is usually the case with individuals who have ASD. Keep up the great work!
I’m an Aspie. It’s the best thing that ever happened to me. But of course it didn’t “happen” - I was born that way. It’s hereditary, as half of us 8 cousins are Aspies to some extent or another. Many of us like to say that Autism is our “superpower,” but whatever y’all think, my high-functioning autism is NOT a disorder; neither is it a blessing, although I consider myself very fortunate. You seem to be struggling with this one, Todd. I recommend reading, in particular, NeuroTribes (Steve Silberman) and An Anthropologist on Mars (Oliver Sacks). I wasn’t diagnosed until I was around 40, but it wasn’t really a diagnosis, it was an explanation. In my case I realized that if I’m the smartest person in the room, I need to redefine what “smart” means. There is so much more to it than that but, like 500 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean, it’s a good start. (Old lawyer joke, just kidding!)
Can you do a video on high functioning ASD (formerly asperger's) in women?
Let me look into the research literature and see what I can find -
Yes! I second this!
man i was looking for more info on that, i'd love to watch a video on that topic! great suggestion
I second this, a lot! As a recently diagnosed aspie woman (yes, it's still aspergers here in Norway)
@Coray ! I love your channel and personality! I've flirted with the hypothesis that I am an aspie, but came to the conclusion I am intensely HSP. Nevertheless I relate to y'all quite a bit and understand what it's like to feel outcasted.
Thanks for clearing that up! I was a bit sceptical that these attributes could be comorbid, but you provided me with the information I needed! Content on narcissism leads down a very dark rabbit hole and it becomes rather important to sort out the bad info from the good. Cheers!
My Dad passed away, so I may never get the answers I so deeply wish I had. I always assumed my Dad had NPD. But while I read about high functioning autism, I see so many similarities. Thank you so much for this video. I still dont know. My Dad was extremely narcissistic with delusions of grandeur, yet he had these crazy obsessions. He was obsessed with rocks. He would talk for hours and hours about rocks. It was strange.
Your dad sounds awesome. Stim rock dad. Would have loved to meet him haha
I think he got autism, talking about one thing for hours ya, but though I wonder if you can be NPD and Autism.
He could have been both. I believe my ex has both as well. He was also super interested in rocks, outer space, plate tectonics, trees, pretty much all earth sciences. He also was extremely abusive and unapologetic about it.
I appreciate you expounding on the different reasons for self-injurious behavior! Thanks for this great video.
Regarding empathy: people with ASD do have empathy, sometimes even more than neurotypical people, but we often are unfamiliar about how to express it. EDIT: perhaps a better/more correct way of saying would be “a perceived lack of empathy”
I find myself often over reacting to certain things inside my head, but being able to be cool/unaffected on the outside and heard the same things of people I know who are on the spectrum.
Certain feelings can be overwhelming and it’s difficult to express them, especially when it’s revolving around another person, because you’re feeling their pain intensely on the inside but don’t want to make it about yourself by crying for instance. Atleast that what goes around in my head.
I’m also a bit shocked how some other channels that are “specialised in narcissism” are simplifying things like the “lack of empathy” and some other traits that are also found in ASD and portray it as if it’s 100% narcissism.
It really scares me to think that many people with ASD are getting labeled narcissistic while the cause is totally different.
I’m speaking from experience as I got diagnosed with ASD because I got into therapy and got the diagnosis after my ex repeatedly accused me of being narcissistic. I looked into it and for a time I thought I had NPD! (hence the therapy).
I believe these things should be said with caution as it can really mess with people’s minds and self-esteem 😕
Really enjoyed the video and the insights tho!
I agree with you. Both my sons and myself are autistic. The outside world can be a stressful place due to various things i.e. loud noises, interacting with more than one person at a time, misreading social cues etc, these are all the steroetypical things people associate with autsitic people. People rarely think of the stress we autistics feel when we see an animal in distress or danger, or seeing an elderly person fall or any vulnerable or helpless person or animal in a distressed state. The empathy we feel in moments like that can become crippling and we will still be suffering with the emotional pain and anguish for days to weeks after. The flash backs and acute emotional pain we feel can be debilitating. It has always saddened me when people say autistic people don't have empathy. It really couldn't be further from the truth. Of course I am generlising and I am sure there are some autistic people who don't have empathy but there are some neurotypical people who don't have empathy too. Having no empathy is not an autistic trait and I really wish this was more recognised and explained in the mental health community.
Hey! Thank you so much for your comment. I lived with a NPD diagnosis for over 6 years and realy thought, I might be dangerous for other peoples mental health until I got an Aspergers diagnose. A lack of Empathy realy was the last thing I thought I suffer from... Often people project their thinking and how they would react onto others.
It’s really about cognitive empathy vs affective empathy too - like psychopaths for example have cognitive empathy (understanding what someone is feeling) but no affective empathy (feeling with someone’s pain/caring), and autistics have the opposite
@@ravenID429 agreed . my asd daughter feels empathy, but in the mement is not sure how to comfort someone . she has to think about it, it does not come naturally
He probably meant cognitive empathy
This one helped me a lot. I feel like I’ve been misdiagnosed through most of my life, recently I have self diagnosed as being on the higher end of Asbergers, and I believe probably a little bit bpd, but think it’s more about knowing who I really am, as opposed to other people telling me who I am, if that makes sense. With more of an understanding of The Autism spectrum disorder, the more I feel like myself, being misdiagnosed and misunderstood made me feel like I was someone else, but not because of a disorder, but b/c of how people treat me. I know alot of/ and have/had many narcissistic people, and forms of mental health disorders/emotional disorders, in and out of my life, and this really helped me separate and understand where my mental/emotional health overlaps, with other relationships in my life. Thank You so much. 🙏💙✌️
Thank you for acknowledging what I've perpetually suspected. From age 4 educators suspected my daughter's reactions were different. She ran out of a clinical test and the psychiatrist reported as incomplete she exhibited Asperger's. I attributed all her self-centered myopia to this. After she entered adulthood I saw cracks and wondered if narcissism was a dominant explanation for many interactions or if the 2 crossed over. I even wondered if narcissism developed to compensate for the backlash of being socially unintuitive. You are the first to approach the grey zone.
This more than any other video, has helped me distinguish whether someone I know is ASD or BPD.
I was diagnosed with ASD 1 at the age of 34 (4 years ago now) and have wondered about possibly having other cluster b disorders as well but have never been assessed for them. For me, all of the ASD criteria fits my experience, but only some of borderline and NPD fit my experience, so it has been confusing for me. There are things I learn about NPD that make me think I could also have this disorder, but then other things that don’t resonate or fit quite as well (and same thing for borderline). I can only imagine how confusing and challenging it is for clinicians trying to suss out the differences between these disorders.
Hi Katie, hope you're doing well.
I am diagnosed with BPD and I fullfil all 9 criteria. Recently I started to wonder could it be something else too because there's other things that doesn't fit with Borderline that I've been struggling with. I have sensory receptors issues all my life. Sound, light, smell, textile and taste textures, not being able to hold conversation, eye contact and not understanding peoples emotions like when they are upset with me or when they are joking. I don't know what to think anymore. I am 34 now and nothing gets better, just harder with every passing year. Could it be Autism?
Not an expert but I doubt you have NPD if you’re worried about it
@@aura420.sounds exactly like ASD, yea
@@aura420. Sounds like ASD to me. It is sometimes confused with BPD and NPD.
I was dx'd with High-Functioning Autism (it's Asperger's to me, sorry DSM-5) at the age of 46 after full neuropsych testing, and I appreciate this video. ASD is a neurodevelopmental d/o; I see far more differences than similarities with the two "dramatic and erratic" Cluster B PDs mentioned here. With the decades of misdiagnosis that most adult females with ASD experience, major depressive d/o is common, so increased risk of SI makes perfect sense. Bottom line: yes to possible comorbidity with BPD or NPD, but from the inside looking out, others' perceptions of my insight and empathy is vastly differently than reality. Thanks for covering the topic.
Great, great video! Thank you! I watched it multiple times b/c it's so packed with great info. There are *many* overlapping symptoms of ASD and Cluster B PDs. I know someone with BPD and has a daughter who's been diagnosed with ASD... but the daughter also exhibits core BPD traits, e.g., fear of abandonment, unstable relationships, etc. And the mom with BPD exhibited ASD traits, esp. very smart (IQ, pattern recognition, but not EQ), deficits at reading emotions.
Thank you so much!
I am so grateful for this video! My ex was Dx with NPD way before I came into the picture and we had a daughter together, she is now 9 and she was showing signs that REALLY scared the hell out of me, I was SO worried she was gonna end up like her dad. After her dad moved out and it was just her and I, I talked with her school and doctors and come to find out she's on the spectrum so there's hope in me once again that she's not doomed to be a narcissist like her dad.
Yet another unique and interesting topic Dr. Grande; thank you! This is extremely helpful for fine tuning diagnostic considerations.
You're welcome!
Dr Grande, next week I'm delivering some mentoring training to a group of adults with ASD. Your video, and the references, have been extremely helpful
This video has been so helpful. My daughter is a young adult aspie and I needed to know this.
I already know quite a lot about psychology, so usually videos on UA-cam don't really teach me things that I don't know, but after this video I feel I gained new insights, so big thanks for this vid!
I think the biggest difference it the empathy. ASD does not understand the emotional information vs NPD does not care about your emotions.
And even when we do understand the emotional information we get, sometimes we just don't know how to express it
That’s a pretty good distinction.
How does someone else know though, whether or not they can't understand or don't care? 👀
@@louiseelizabeth9613it's been my experience, I cannot say this is true for all, when one voices displeasure with someone diagnosed ASD they may overly apologize, freeze and go within, become hard on themselves, begin stimming more and could begin scripting behavior.
A Narcissist on the other hand when voicing displeasure with them will gaslight you, blame you, insinuate you're crazy and don't have a right to feel the way you feel. Another difference is whether or not the behaviors are consistent no matter the environment they're in. Narcissist wish to appear to be the good guy often times, above everyone else to others and paint you as crazy and inferior to others. People with ASD may mask in public to survive but generally speaking will display patterns of behavior conducive of ASD such as stimming in public and behind closed doors and don't care how you may appear to others generally speaking. They're not invested in making you look crazy again generally speaking.
I 🙏 this helps, great question 👍. I have a beautiful daughter on the Spectrum from my second marriage and had married a Narcissist the first time around. When in doubt ask them to go to couples therapy with you.
Prior to leaving the Narcissist, I dragged him to couples therapy in an attempt to fix our marriage. After one meeting with her, she said she wanted to speak to me alone. He then exclaimed, "See, I told you you're the f*cked up one ruining our marriage! You should just listen to me and do as your told!" in front of the therapist as I sobbed. The minute the therapist got me alone she said," Listen to me. I need to work with you to build your self esteem and self worth and you need to get out NOW prior to him killing you." She knew he was abusive, he admitted it yet blamed me. If I would've just did as I was told I wouldn't get beat according to him yet that was also a lie but was too afraid to share that with her 😔. To this day I swear she saved my life. I was so twisted up I had begun to believe the beatings could've been my fault and tried harder to please him prior to dragging him to a therapist for couples therapy. The only way I got him to agree to go was by accepting full responsibility for our marital issues prior to going.
Night and day difference in my minds eye because I had a front row seat to both yet not necessarily obvious to the general public unfortunately. ASD and NPD aren't the same.
I do wish to share with you if abuse is present it doesn't matter the diagnosis PLEASE get the hell out NOW and sort it out later, heal and rebuild yourself in a safe space. Best wishes sorting this out, you're worth it beautiful soul.
Lmao people (women) with asd have MORE emotions than people without. We understand clearly. We don’t understand social rules. That is different than emotion,
I have ASD (Asperger's) and it has been undiagnosed for much of my life. I have worked in IT and could accomplish quite a bit when I could control a domain of computers on my own terms, but as my field is standardized into set patterns, I always prefer my own systems which contrast what industry standards are. I do appreciate your comments about systemization, as I intuitively perceive that systems could be formed in certain ways and then become microfocused on those ideas, even at the expense of more profitable endeavors. I constants say that I don't think my ways might be the best, but rarely see anything close. I believe that this is fundamental to autism, we are literally machine-like in our thought patterns and don't have many idle thoughts, only what we think are important thoughts versus what others think are important. I get frustrated when people who have very little engagement with an idea fail to imagine that standard solutions are rarely the most elegant ones.
Excellent video Dr. Grande!
Again I have learned several very interesting things from you 👍.
Thank you!!!
Excellent insight, and soundly simplified. Thank you. Incredibly helpful for me trying to support someone with ASD.
Adult Autism also has very high frequency toward teen and adult substance abuse. That the mix of autism and multiple substance abuse would resemble bipolar. Sometimes there's no diagnosis with the adult autistic but multiple substance abuse. This I find confusing. Co-morbidity gets complicated, like a chess game, and it's interesting to find out how psychiatrists/psychologists make the diagnoses; similar to adding up traits etc?
Just graduated with my MSW in 2020 and your videos are so insightful! Thank you!
Interestingly, my daughter has diagnosed ASD, but is missing the axis of the disorder that deals with having reduced empathy and lack of a full spectrum of emotions. She has the other two that involve perseverating and sensory. She just has pretty much normal emotional function. Except occasionally her emotionality is a little off. Like she might go from acting completely normal to crying hysterically once she sort of reaches her limit instead of getting there gradually which is more of the normal thing you would see. It's almost like she's unaware of her own emotions but she is aware of other people's. Just an odd thing. She is though, very gentle and kind and aware of animals.
I'm very similar! I can read people incredibly well and am very good at self reflection but when I'm triggered I cry like a baby and once I'm overwhelmed I'll breakdown properly, but I'm otherwise considered as both empathetic and sensible and have even been told I have high emotional intelligence. I am autistic and have adhd! It's very interesting how much we are learning about it these days!
Amen ,
I'm autistic and I'm writing a sweet character who's similar! She might have alexithymia - a reduced ability to tell what's going on inside. It doesn't mean there's nothing there, just difficultly telling what's there. If she often doesn't notice she's cold or hungry then I recommend looking into it as it could help explains lot of her experiences.
I'm alexithymic too and I'm very happy to have learned the word as it explained a vast degree of my own experiences. Hope you two have a great life!
Thank you for sharing this video, you are really able to explain the differences and overlap really well! Just one thing that I remembered you said was decreases in empathy in npd and asd, but most people I know with asd have great levels of empathy, sometimes too much, if people with asd cant read facial expressions, most of the time they will still feel some ones pain or pick up on those energies that a person is giving off and the people I know with npd or npd traits are really hopeless with empathy. They have a very strange form of empathy, its manipulated empathy, because all they want to achieve with giving empathy is that you fill them up with your real empathy, while they are pretending to give the same, but theirs is fake and this is why they are so confusing, especially to people with asd. You could be in the worst situation of your life, share that with a npd and they will manage to make you feel worse, while they walk away as if they helped you out a great deal, leaving some one utterly confused and feeling even worse about themselves. Another big difference between asd and npd/ bpd is npd/ bpd ate driven by manipulation. They want to gain something out of others with their attention seeking maipulative behaviours. Some one with asd does not manipulate, at least not in the way npd/ bpd does. Asd people are usually way to honest, to empathic and to open, its more what you see is what you get. Manipulation is usually not present in people with asd
I want an apology for being misdiagnosed as BPD. That was insulting, frankly.
I have ASD and BPD wow what a journey life will be now that I know. I can help so many people who can’t help themselves.
Thank you Dr. Grande! This is really thought provoking ideas/concepts. I think I may have been on the spectrum of Autism, or had a very strange puberty, and adolesence one. Things adjusted out as an adult, but still, there are dominate themes that continue to pervade for myself. Thanks.
You're welcome!
wow this is Incredibly professional, it will help me with my own work as a psychologist (autism coach). thank you!! GREAT
I would have thought the glaringly obvious difference between Autism Spectrum Disorder and Narcissistic Personality Disorders is intentional malevolence. People with ASD may hurt other people but they don't intend to, nor do they extract pleasure or 'supply' from doing so. They are unaware of hurting others. Whereas people with NPD intend to hurt others and thoroughly enjoy doing so, in fact, that's their whole purpose in life, to feed off the narcissistic supply they gain from physical or emotional sadism.
I shouldn't be surprised that Dr. Grande has made no mention of this very crucial difference between the two, as therapists these days (unfortunately) have to maintain a sympathetic attitude to all potential patients, no matter how undeserving. However, there is such a thing as turning a blind eye, for the sake of 'political correctness'. People should be made aware of these differences.
Good point!
Thanks for mentioning this. It's a very important point.
Very true...my son is on the spectrum, he does hit me, but he doesnt mean to and after he does, he comes over and hugs me ... its not his fauly... NPD's though will hurt you deliberiately.
The subject matter of this video is one that really hits home for me. I believe I'm high functioning ASD and BPD, but counselors have told me I'm neither. Thanks for posting this Dr Grande!
Narcissistic Personality Disorders: Arrogant, jealous of others, lack of empathy, requiring excessive admiration, tending to manipulate people and having a sense of entitlement
There is a lack of empathy. Reduced emotional empathy.
Great video, thank you!
I have ASD and met somebody recently who though he might also have ASD, but he always wanted to be the center of attention, was extremely manipulative, and deceptive (to make people think more highly of him).
He was completely different depending who he talked to, gauged if they were worthy and would trade out in a heartbeat.
There were a lot of lies.
He was trying to make me think that something was wrong with me when I asked him about the incongruences in his stories.
So I walked away, because that friendship was consuming me. 😕
This video helped me understand more about what might be going on, very well explained. I appreciate it. 🙂
Interesting,
I would like to see more conclusive research on these similarities and differences.
Spot on! Great description and comparison between ASD, BPD, and NPD. I have a child diagnosed with ASD (high functioning autism/aspergers) but very closely relates to BPD. I believe his dad is also and is undiagnosed, we married in late 20’s and I could not understand what was happening. Happily divorced, but solely raising a now 18 your old who has carbon copy behavior of his dad. This helps to realize I’m not crazy identifying and recognizing his behavior as not normal.
Dr. Grande, thank you for a great presentation. If one looks at the traits of OCPD and high functioning ASD they overlap to a huge extent. How do you differentiate one from another?
That is an excellent question! I will add it to the production list.
I scored highly in both OCPD, DPD and BPD when we covered the personality disorders, even though I ended up with aspergers (high functioning asd).
I can only speak from my own perspective, but looking at the DSM criteria for OCPD it doesn't involve any sensory processing impairments whereas many with ASD experience them to some extent.
@@AxiomMusic good point, thank you :)
But can you have both? I have ASD and am diagnosed with OCD but I think the OCD might be OCPD.
This video was very helpful for me in recognizing the difference. Thank you.
I'm surprised ASD isn't more commonly correlated with OCPD.
40 percent of aspies have comorbid OCPD
@@corvusmortuus2369 I have ASD and am diagnosed with OCD but I think the OCD might really be OCPD.
I love Dr. Grande. He has taught me so much. He teaches so much in so little time. Love him!
I've wondered about the possibility of me having Aspergers rather than BPD for some time now. This was very interesting. Thank you.
Do you like to play Minecraft with others? If so you are probably one of us Spergs. :)
It's VERY common for females to be diagnosed with BPD when, in fact they are AS.
I was diagnosed with Aspi at 53. I'm ow 66. I wouldn't be anyone else. Why? Cos i like me. Simple. Thankyou Doctor.
I was confused at the correlation at first BUT my ex falls into this for sure!!! So interesting
My brother is 35 years old and has never had a job. Career student and completely antisocial. Narcissist since birth. I have no idea how to communicate this to my mother. She has been in denial his whole life. It’s complicated. But he has almost every cluster B personality disorder in addition to adult autism that was miss diagnosed as ADHD as a child. He’s controlled her with threats of suicide his whole life. Knowing she gave birth to three sons and he was the only one living. And he was the baby of six born three living. So he had power and now that my father passed last fall. It’s worse. Would love to see a video on something that encompassing.
Dr. Grande, thank you for helping me understand
This is a high area of interest for me having a child with ASD (comorbid anxiety and ADHD, also very high IQ). High functioning ASD is so confusing! My child is creative and has excellent language skills, which is not always associated with ASD, yet his rigidity, systemizing, and reliance on logical argument, as opposed to understanding the importance of emotions, clinched the diagnosis. We had an incompetent Special Ed director who thought when he was 12 that he might have BPD but experts negated this. She also thought a more authoritarian approach was best to horrible effect, mostly developing ODD, which has thankfully subsided now that he is in a better school.Thank you Dr. Grande for distingushing the cognitive vs. emotional empathy. I knew my son had empathy even when others couldn't see it.
Even competent professionals have difficulty with him --one excellent psychologist stating he was the most challenging child she had ever worked with. A dubious distinction! One of the biggest challenges is figuring out which one of his diagnoses are affecting him the most at any given time. Is there a procedure in psychiatry for systematically determining the best approach to comorbid disorders?
Thank you for your excellent presentations. Do you have any thoughts on Avoidant Personality Disorder and Autistic Spectrum Disorder? I had a diagnosis of PDD-NOS at age 12 in 1977. I only found out about this 3 years ago. I have had a Dx of AvPD and Major Depression for the past 10 years. I was tested in a clinic for ASD two years ago but they said it was inconclusive because of my age and coping skills. I feel a Dx like Aspergers generally fits and my AQ scores were very high.
Thanks a lot for the video, it did clear up a lot! As others have commented, i think the sensory issues can be a good marker to distinguish apd from personality disorders. I also hold the belief that if a patient is diagnosed correctly and are educated about the disorder, they might come to a point where they feel reliefed. At least that's what i guess why many patients are angry about false diagnosis - they must have suspected that something is wrong, or it didn't feel right. Of course, that would be more true for certain disorders than for others.
Anyway, what I actually wanted to say: great video
@middy444 i'm really sorry to hear that, and i understand how that was detrimental to your mental health.
i'm studying to late work in the medical profession, and i often struggle with stories like yours, because i always imagine how i could have done it differently. the thing is, you need to learn to be someone confident in your diagnosis, otherwise the pressure and anxiety will hinder you in being a good doctor - so we can't second guess ourselves all the time, if there is some basis to our decisions. I guess the key here is asking the patient if they feel the diagnosis helps them, and in what way - i have no experience to really support that, but i have learnt myself what it means when you aren't being listened to and your symptoms are being ignored.
from what i have seen, these doctors are usually not bad people - they are just, in some capacity, inable to communicate with patients correctly.
Great information, thank you! I’ve often wondered about the connection between ASD and NPD or BPD. I’ve noticed in forums or on UA-cam narcissism channel comments that it seemed like a high number of people stated they previously had a narcissistic partner and also had a child diagnosed with autism. Not generalizing, just noticed a pattern of this mentioned frequently by many. I’m also interested in your thoughts regarding dissociative identity disorder.
I've noticed that people confuse narcissism with people who are not socially cognitive.
D.I.D😡 I hate that disability, not the person, how it is cause, it is genetically, but it is connected to pedophile abuse and extremely abuse at a young. It also involved in some cults and in intelligence make it more evil and disturbing. I feel for anyone dissociative idendity disorder.
Ooo, I fit into the stereotype me be autistic.
Extremely helpful thank you. I don't always like or agree w everything you put out, but I enjoy listening to your opinions and learning at all ends of the scale. This video is 100 % helpful however. ASD is an important part of human progress, as many people with this social issue are brilliant, and have contributed in ways that no one else had the ability to contribute. We need people with ASD in science and economics, as well as psychology and other studies.
I strongly disagree with you that "callousness" describes ASD, as that would imply reduced emotional empathy, not cognitive empathy which you pointed out. I think it would be prudent to mention that while people with ASD have limited cognitive empathy, the research shows they also have increased emotional empathy.
Obviously, emotional empathy can't kick into gear when people with ASD are unable to gather the subtle clues of something they would otherwise be empathic about. Someone can't have a disregard for someone's feelings if they were never detected in the first place. That's called being oblivious, not callous. Have you ever broken the bad news to someone, but they were distracted and didn't hear what you said? I guarantee you you were not thinking at the time "How cold! This person must be callous! " I have ASD and this difference is very clear to me. It is such an insulting and pernicious myth because it sounds close enough to reality to short-sighted neurotypical people who would believe it for sure if a psychologists they looked up to gave them the rubber stamp to attribute ASD with this unfavorable character trait. This is unbelievable, and damaging to people with ASD who already have trouble making connections with people. What am I missing here?! How is this not obvious?
And if the response is, "well they appear callous", that's not on them! That's not their trait to own. That's your way of looking at them because you can't process their behavior in the appropriate emotional way.
@doedicurus Thanks for mentioning that. I couldn't agree more.
I'm 17 and my mom JUST told me I have borderline autism...quite refreshing actually because I finally understand that my abnormal actions and emotions are effects of something and I'm not just an a-hole. (I have limited emotions and am often called mean because I don't care about a lot of things and people)
Does anyone with ASD get really obsessed with a love interest? Does this happen without ASD? I'm not sure what kind of attachment is ok
I guess at the end of the day if gushy you can be grosses them out its better to be gushy and gross than quiet
People think quietness is a brush off right? Being silent is always a treatment?
What kind of boundaries have you had to set up? I feel my mimicking can run out of control and I take what people say too literally and use that as instruction
There are so many instructions I feel using intuition is the best overriding everyone all previous sound bites and inputs and thinking how I should best behave in that moment
I get extremely obsessed with love interests, lol.
I've read obsession with love interests is common in ASD even after divorcing that person. It might fall under OCD, not sure.
Thank you so much for maling this video and this kind of content. It is really helpful and really appreciated.
Can you perhaps do a video doing a rough profile of common characteristics of someone who is autistic/is on the AS and -is- comorbid with BPD or NPD? (Or another personality disorder?) I know you have a lot of videos on similar topics but I am definitely interested in this as someone who is diagnosed with BPD but is looking into an ASD dx as well.
I was diagnosed with HFA at the age of 46. My assessment took nearly a year due to the coping /masking mechanisms I had developed over my lifetime.
What's HFA
I was raised by parents with ASD and NPD and I was diagnosed with BPD in my mid-30s. All I can really say is that parents with these diagnoses should not be left unchecked as the damage they will do to their children is phenomenal. Frustratingly I've spent so much time in therapy and although I'm probably the lucky one now, I'm still angry that I was born. If I had it my way people with these conditions would not be allowed to have children. I have seething anger that has never left, I want revenge, I remember too much and a total feeling of powerlessness as a child and I am furious at them and everyone who stood by and did nothing. I'm now in my 40s and although I understand what happened and the dynamic I still feel somewhat ripped off and angry. I recognise that no matter what anyone says I am unable to experience relationships like most people. I'm unfortunately quite intelligent so in terms of treatment, I see DBT and CBT as investing in falsehoods.
I understand thinking people with NPD shouldn't have kids, but ASD, why? I have ASD and want kids. I've worked with kids since I was 13 (11 years now, I'm 24), including full time as a nanny and was great at my jobs.
But I see you say people with ASD shouldn't be allowed to have kids, can I ask why? Please answer ASAP this is very important to me
@@OvercookedSpacegetti the inability to see the emotional pain in a child as well as the capacity to watch something causing chronic emotional pain and rationalise it away. Also the inability to see the child as other for whom their life experience is likely to be very different. If your going to have kids make sure they are being loved and nurtured by at least one person with the full range of emotional intelligence.
@@adrianfeegeryou didn’t describe ASD only NPD. People with autism are extremely empathetic and compassionate. An autistic person is perfectly capable of being a good parent . I sympathize with your trauma, I’m sad you had to go through a crappy childhood but making ASD the issue is just ableism
Thanks doctor Grande for approaching this/ these topics. My daughter was half diagnosed with Asperger's ( she ran out of the test prior completion). Subsequently she tried jumping out of the car and I never got her full cooperation. she had a history of anger issues low adaptability incredible conscientiousness high verbal/reading low social skills. now she's an adult and it seems narcissism has become her crutch to mask the traumas that she's experience as a child and teen. the question which has never been answered is can narcissism being developed as a coping skill with low social adaptability people? Is narcissism a means of gaining control UB social situations? This is not the physical manifestation of narcissism being attracted to material goods and appearance; superficial. Someone who obcesses to have control over the conversation and all the mechanisms of social engagement it's manifested in sarcasm silent treatment , crafted and timed words.
Thank you for this video. My boyfriend has ASD but he has many traits that overlap NPD and BPD. I have been trying to see the subtle differences, being I have dealt with NPD many times before and sometimes his behavior triggers me.
My family has ADHD and ASD with most of us. You are valid noticing the overlap. I think that it's possible to have one, or both to different degrees of presentation. My dad is definitely asd, as am I, but I spent my life trying to understand people, and he told me he basically threw up his hands in frustration and quit trying to understand people, so he just seems callous a lot because he just has no idea what to do with emotions, even his own. He said that (in a rare moment of vulnerability) that he wished being like Spock from star trek was more acceptable.
I probably have AS, as of now I'm being tested for the condition. While it's certainly true that autism and PDs may co-occur, the similarities between AS and NPD or BPD are so superficial that I can barely understand how they may be confused.
Unfortunately, many psychiatrists don't know much about autism, or have wild misconceptions about it. Many professionals don't even consider assessing the patient's neurological condition first, and go for the diagnosis they are more familiar with. Which often leads to misdiagnosing.
Thank you Doctor Grande!!! I would love more videos on this topic, especially on ASD I and psychopathy. I have seen brain scans are very different but I was wondering if they could be co-morbid and how would brain scans look...It is such a fascinating topic.
Dr. Grande: I have immensely enjoyed your videos and am very grateful for the enormous amount of tangible, affective advice and guidance that you have provided.
I AM IMMENSEFLY INTERESTED in mor NPD vs. ____ content that you might have, esp. vs. light autism.
I am already smarty-pants-NPD-autist blind to true social reality but it really truly is a LAUGH-AND-A-HALF internalizing your explanations of how I'm twisted into meaninglessness. I appreciate, others too.
INSIGHT :P
A few comments mention ASD vs schizoid PD. I'd also be interested in that. I've always wondered if the two could go hand in hand, or if schizoid-like traits could be a maladaptive coping strategy for poor social adjustment.
ASD and schizoid PD are only similar on paper, on real people telling them apart probably isn't that difficult.
People think I’m a narcissist but I have nothing but contempt for them.
lol. Ignore those fools!