AUTISM (ASD) VS BORDERLINE (BPD) VS COMPLEX-PTSD (CPTSD)?
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- Опубліковано 27 січ 2023
- This video describes similarities, differences and overlap between BPD Borderline Personality, CPTSD Complex PTSD and ASD Autism Spectrum Disorders.
Info on cards from NAMI.ORG
neurodivergentinsights.com- excellent site esp re BPD, ASD, ADHD
psychcentral.com
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Hi, autistic person here, and I have an interesting observation that me and many autistic people discuss within the community and I'd love to hear your opinion on this possible phenomenon.
Many teenage autistics (especially those late- or undiagnosed) go through a "phase" that often looks very similar to BPD. This typically happens especially if your parents either don't know you're autistic and therefore hold you to neurotypical standards or aren't very accommodating of you and don't take time to teach you valuable social skills.
When teenage years are upon you as an autistic person, you likely already have developed an insecure attachment style via issues with your parents, kids at school, etc. Studies have shown autistic kids are almost universally bullied.
We are also going through big hormonal changes (we hate change) that impact our feelings, emotions, etc. Everything is new, scary, overwhelming, and confusing. We have big emotions that we've never felt before, and we don't know how to express or process them in socially appropriate ways yet.
We develop crushes like anyone else and can sometimes come across as stalkerish because we make that person into a new special interest. Usually the people we like are some of the first people to show us any kindness. We become obsessive and catalog details about them.
Over time, we tend to grow out of this because we learn via specific examples and receiving lots of raw data. It takes time to collect the data and develop a system to generalize knowledge. As we get older, we often have healthier attachment styles.
As someone who was misdiagnosed as having BPD before my correct autism diagnosis, I often wonder if BPD is actually more closely related to autism than we may think.
After all, those with BPD share many things with autistics. Such as mood issues, systemizing, low empathy, higher rates of comorbid ADHD, social problems, paranoia, etc.
I'm Borderline BECAUSE of the fact I masked my autism for so long, and all of the trauma surrounding that. I'm wondering how many others are the same way....
I went through a "tantrum panic attack phase" which was just me repeatedly having meltdowns and going catatonic from the constant emotional and noisy input from my mother and her attempts to change my schedule and/or make me do useless things or malevolent things I didn't want to do, along with a sprinkling of her abusive tendencies. I remember going through the "stalker" phase too, never was I dangerous or really made anyone feel bad but I'd pay a lot of secret attention to people.
This! I think in the future sience will show that BPD = autism + trauma + masking.
I (female) currently have a BPD diagnosis (diagnosed at 27, getting onto it at 29 after ending an almost decade long abusive relationship) and have happened across looking into autism spectrum disorder to find so so so many things that explain things from childhood until now.
I often wondered if I was an alien or if I was adopted. Something didn’t feel right, and I often felt ‘hazy’ and blurry as a child which my current psychologist is discussing with me regarding high imagination as a child and dissociation disorders and symptoms as an adult.
Reading your comment has been really great in this turbulent time of my life. ❤
I have started the journey to see which of these diagnosis might be why I hate waking up every morning. Your comment about being stalkerish as a teenager hit home hard. I am sitting here crying, there is so much pain there even 30 years later. I still remember their phone #s and old addresses, work schedules, the person being the new special interest rings soo true.
I really appreciate you telling people that if they suspect they might be ASD, to specifically see an autism specialist. I was misdiagnosed with BPD by a Dr who totally didn't care at all, resulting in 7 years on horrifying meds. I'm still affected by that. I self diagnosed ASD after much research at the age of 51, and then was confirmed by an autism specialist. I also have CPTSD, and found your comparisons of all these things very interesting. Thank you for talking about this.
I used this doc herbs for my son and now my son is completely free, his speaking and behavior is ok. His herbs is 100% working on ASD. I met Dr Oyalo on channel and I’m happy to share my experience about it.
I didn't know that there were medicines to treat borderline (or any) personality disorders.
@@TischTosh I got prescribed antipsychotics. It permanently ruined my metabolism and I was a zombie when I was on it.
Meds for BPD? I was told there was no medication for it. Only anti-depressants, which I was already on.
@@raven4090 there aren't specific meds, only meds to treat the symptoms, not the disorder itself
My friend always tells me to stop living in the past..I had a really hard time expressing the reality. I just heard something that I think will help me express it. "I am not living in the past, The past is living in me". I am so thankful for this paradigm shift.
That's awesome, a very real shift. Gabor Mate talks about that, too.
that is so good thank you
Never forget but let's move forward and find forgiveness. The past is what makes us.
My grandmother had bpd. My mother was a covert narcissist. My father was violent and emotionally immature. I was diagnosed with cptsd last year. I was that child that fell through the cracks. My mom would switch me to different therapists as soon as they got wise to what was going on. I am now a child and adolescent therapist and I love what I do.
I used this doc herbs for my son and now my son is completely free, his speaking and behavior is ok. His herbs is 100% working on ASD. I met Dr Oyalo on channel and I’m happy to share my experience about it.
My mom did the same thing. My dad and I called it psychological munchausen by proxy - what do you think about that, if it resonates with you too?
@@daniellecharming can you explain manchausten by proxy? This is also my story. Mom is covert narcissist, never took responsibility and met my needs. Dad has probably Bpd, it's like he has different personalities he can be charming and nice but other side lack of remorse, guilt, gaslight, put you down, emotionally immature like a 5 year old.
You are living your purpose and that is amazing!
You described the autism childhood experience - the repeated increase in trauma opportunities - perfectly. Thank you for that validation.
❤❤❤
This is by far the most comprehensive and helpful video - perhaps the only video - I've seen address this overlap. It needs to be shared with clinicians in the field. Most of us are doing the work ourselves and bringing it to the attention of therapists lol.
Sensory issues happen in both autism and any type of PTSD.
I would also put sensory issues as an absolute top trait in ASD, even more that repetitive behaviors or social issues. The reason for that is that the sensory issues are a primary driver in the other behaviors.
In ASD, some brain areas are overdeveloped and others are underdeveloped. This causes the specialization of interests. And it actually causes visual and auditory information to become misaligned in processing. Slow processing of auditory speech reception and verbal speech production are common. When these things happen, it seriously interferes in the social experience. A person is just going to get frustrated and disconnect and fall farther behind socially as the developmental years pass. I'm sure there are other factors involved.
But sensory issues are just such a crucial part of the problem they can't really be left out.
Repetitive behaviors and sameness are more in more severe autism. But I wouldn't say those are crucial issues in all autistics. Some of the older descriptions are to blame for autistic girls being overlooked as they don't present the same way as the boys do.
Yeah, sensory issues are usually a top problem in all autistics. But they usually have differences in how their specific senses are affected.
Yeah, for me I only get sensory issues when I am already in fight/flight from being in the same proximity as other people because I am afraid they are thinking I'm ugly. I have zero sensory issues when I am alone and calm. I mostly feel heightened sensitivity to pain, and my anxiety gives me severe muscle pain (especially in my jaw) and fluttery chest to the point of distracting me in social interactions. I get accused of interrupting people, not listening etc because it's hard to pay attention to others when I am anxious, and my thoughts are racing. I also say things people think are absurd because my thinking becomes extremely black or white. I also get triggered easily and feel like everyone hates me. I call people several times a day because I worry they will abandon me and being stuck with the thoughts in my head makes me suffer. I have to rely on other people's validation to self-regulate. I also have severe body dysmorphia and have to look in the mirror constantly to make sure I am not deformed. I have constant flashing images in my head of my face looking deformed.
Yeah definitely a heavy focus on part a of the dsm 5 criteria for ASD in this video.
Once any employer I have finds out about my ASD I'm abandoned and thrown away despite my merits and ability to work
Looking forward to watching this as someone who’s been diagnosed with all of them. One of my favourite quotes related to this is from Autism On The Inside here on youtube who said something along the lines of “we embrace our autism, and we heal from our trauma” to separate the two. That’s really stayed with me.
I don’t meet the criteria for BPD anymore as I was fortunate to go through DBT at a pretty young age, but with BPD my feelings would be extremely intense 24/7 and I would seek a lot of external validation to (try to) help regulate my moods. With my CPTSD my intense emotions come from more specific triggers and I numb myself down and isolate way more to keep myself “safe”. Those are just my observations so far from life; I’m still trying to figure it all out.
Anyway, actually going to watch the video now lol! Thank you always for all that you share with us, it’s so appreciated 💕
I so appreciate you and love the quote!❤thank you so much!
Was your diagnosis expensive and do you recommend it?
I know I am autistic. It’s not even a question now as I have circled back to the topic & signs innumerable times.
I just acknowledge it and then sort of let it go/don’t initiate any further energy to do more for it. Ugh. But life continues to feel hard, every piece of it all of the time, it’s always intense.
@@morgancornelius2145 I just learned I’m autistic at 19 years old after working w kids w autism and relating heavily. A diagnosis could inhibit me in the future since I want to adopt kids, but your self-diagnosis is completely valid! Realizing I’m autistic explained sm about my childhood and life experiences in general so far. However, the majority of late-diagnosed auties, including myself, go thru a bit of a grieving process/burnout. figuring out how to let down the mask and how this has affected u your whole life.
I used this doc herbs for my son and now my son is completely free, his speaking and behavior is ok. His herbs is 100% working on ASD. I met Dr Oyalo on channel and I’m happy to share my experience about it.
Hi, E! I was just diagnosed two days ago with all three as well at 26 yrs old. Have you been able to find any helpful information to better understand this situation? I'd love to read any words you may have.
I have cptsd and can certainly see the difference between me and my sister who has bpd
I have the same diagnosis but have a friend who has bpd & agreed!
Thank you for this video, it clarifies disagreements I've had with my mother and why they came about. It came out recently that she always believed I was autistic and treated me as such throughout my childhood. I would avoid her and refuse to speak to share my emotions with her from an early age because of her suicidal threats and three times she actually attempted to kill herself and us when I was 7 and 9 by driving into oncoming traffic while screaming bloody murder (we only survived because I somehow managed to tear her hands off the wheel and swerve us away the first time, the second two she stopped herself in time). I also appeared obsessed with computers in preschool and kindergarten, but truthfully I felt it was the only way to connect with my dad who worked graveyard shifts and was asleep for most of the first years I knew him (he also liked to mess around with basic code on our floppy disk mac, what a throwback eh?).
When she found out I was reflecting on our past interactions in consideration of this new bit of news and had *gasp* feelings about it, she pulled a big family meeting at the dinner table (a lot like that scene in hereditary, which some might consider scary if you didn't grow up around a borderline) to yell at me for daring to feel bad about it, "oh how unfair you are to me, how cruel!"
Anyway it brought up a lot of other memories of other "family meetings" where she shouted at us for having any feelings she hadn't allowed for us to have.
Sorry for the long speal, it just felt good to get off my chest, and I felt right at being offended that her belief justified her talking down to me all these years in her eyes (it stings more that she was a social worker and later a special education teacher, yet still misunderstood it for her gain, whether it was intentional or no).
It's not easy but I have found inner child work done closely with a trauma therapist has been a huge help. I still have a long way to go but not giving up. I fit in so many different categories.
It isn't easy - but im so glad you've found someone to walk beside you.❤
Me t👀
& found someone who understood I needed inner child work but not sure how to apply it to mySelf as I never knew & still don’t know how to
& no therapist yet.. hence why I’m trying to learn via videos like this🥴
@@YOU-niter patience love. You'll get there
@@YOU-niter there are coaches that can help. I'm currently in training to be one. Don't give up
My mother has what I think is untreated bpd. I thought I had it too until I went through a huge betrayal. I handled it maturely, went to therapy, processed difficult emotions etc. however if someone screamed near my ear I would end up in my room curled in a ball and cry for a long time and none able to be social for a while. Maybe not speak and go inward for a while. It brought me to seek a diagnosis for ASD. But I know that if I had sought help before realising it myself I would have been labelled BPD. Now that I take care of my needs and know my limits, Meltdowns are rare.
My major differential is, do triggers lead to self harm if so, I say bpd. I find ptsd tends to lead to withdrawal.
In my experience not all triggers lead to self harm but the ones that do are closely related to unprocessed childhood ptsd.
Except on autism forums, people talk of hitting/banging their heads and clawing their skin during meltdowns.
I was triggered 2 days ago, and where I normally don't drink anymore, I drank a whole bottle of wine really fast, shouted at my dog, and then cried and felt like crap. But yes I also withdrew. When triggered I cannot face emails, texts, or phone calls. I just feel so utterly worthless and want to punish myself for being so pathetic. And I'm really scared of further hurt from external input. Sometimes, at its extreme, I won't read an email for many months. Safety seems so thin on the ground.
With autism we do both
I have found that with CPTSD, that I am triggered into these states of hyper vigilance, poor self-image, poor emotional regulation, etc. They aren’t always there. I think that’s an important distinction for people. An event, which has its roots in childhood (for example, of being mocked or belittled for speaking about something I learned in school) can be triggering as an adult (for example, then someone at work spoke in a condescending manner when we were discussing an idea, then causing a flashback), and I am pulled from who I was (a functioning adult) back into a small, scared child who feels worthless. I almost suffer from amnesia that I ever was ok, when I am in these triggered states. Sometimes it resolves within a few hours (if I write out the problem and can trace it back to when I was young), but other times it is much more complicated and I could be in this depressed and worthless, small, state for months (such as in the case of being emotionally abused by a relative).
Does this experience reflect the condition of CPTSD, in your opinion?😊
I have been in the confusing junction of these three conditions seemingly forever. This video has given me a lot of helpful info. I will rewatch it for sure. Thank You.
Thank you for making it more schematic. I'm Autistic with a complex Adhd and cptsd (and also chronic diseases). I can tell that my good eriod are related to the feeling of being able to provide to my personal needs, such as having a good job, enough money, a safe place to live. This is always my n1 check list. Of course I need love and friendship to live, but it's not something that I pick up as first need if you ask me roughly. In the past I couldn't understand how much friendship and an healthy community around was fondant for me, this happened basically because I never fitted in. Therapists had always diagnosed me as "artist". So I developed the idea that was just me not fitting anywhere and that my whole life was impossible to make pleasurable. Finally I've got diagnosed by a specialist in autism and my life is changing so much in better. I'm so grateful that many people are talking about it more and more, so many lives can be changed and so many hearts healed ❤️
Tjis is me but I can't figure out how to use my insurance to get help, despite being decently intelligent, as an adult...... how did you get it figured out?
How it got better after diagnosis?
I was raised by a narcissist father and my mother who enabled him, and once I got past the gaslighting and realized they were abusing me (at 30 years old, I'm ashamed to say) I was sure that all my issues were cptsd based. I worked hard to heal, but certain elements of my life still felt broken in incurable ways and I got very sick with burnout and chronic fatigue syndrome from a fried nervous system. I eventually managed to escape their house at 32 and was welcomed into an incredibly safe and loving environment away from them. I started healing and relaxing, and as I let my guard down to my surprise I actually started displaying neurodivergent behaviors! After some research I realized I probably had autism, and as I learned more about the spectrum my life suddenly locked into focus in a powerful way where everything made so much sense. My mental health is so, SO much better now, but I still have moments of doubt about my self diagnosis, since cptsd and autism overlap. Watching your video helped a lot and really reinforced my belief that I am autistic, and that I have some cptsd as well but that it's lessened over the last couple of years now that I'm safe. Thank you so much for making this video!
Your story sounds similar to mine ❤
I have ASD, yet when I'm in a highly stressful, high-conflict, relationship (in my case 2 NPD exes) it's as if my body is taken over by someone else and I start exhibiting very covert borderline traits the like of which I never do with anyone else. Then, once it's all over I'm looking back at it all as some kind of movie I watched, as opposed to something that actually happened to me. Totally stunned in disbelief that I acted the way I did.
That's a form of meltdown. It's what happened to me when pushed past the limit by narcissists, too. I absolutely couldn't control how I was acting. I always felt like crap when it was over, and got blamed for it by the people who caused it. I didn't know there was a name for it until I found out about autism as a middle aged adult. I've since learned how to spot a narcissist, and what traits I had that attracted them that I could work on. Now I avoid those people like the plague! Some were exes, some were family members, some were even counselors, but they're all in my past. Don't let anyone tell you your reactions to their abuse are you having a tantrum.
It's OK to defend yourself. It means you still have some self respect left that they haven't managed to destroy. It's even better to stay well away from anyone that deliberately pushes your buttons until you explode. Drama people and narcissists need you more you need them. They thrive off the reactions they get. I feel better having a life without that ever happening.
Thank you, this is great info! Would love to see how these also overlap and compare to ADHD
so many females go undiagnosed with ASD until another mental health condition like CPTSD is brought to light' i literally was misdiagnosed with other mental health cnditions and heavily medicated against them which caused catastropic events in my life almost ending it' i came clean and began unravelling what on earth is happening and why do i feel the way i do' the autism in me was due to a dealyed birth inside a mother with severe pre eclampsia where i was delivered at 43 weeks gestation' the CPTSD and ADHD were due to the toxic abusive family i was raised within' always do your reasearch on you' sending gratitude sweet lady and thanks
Great video! I think videos like this are very needed especially with how prevalent self-diagnosing all 3 of those are currently. There are so many nuances and overlaps that people really need to understand that if they think they have 1, 2, or all 3 of those, it really is in their best interest to seek out a professional to explore their symptoms. Most people only see lists of symptoms written out, but professionals who specialize in those 3, see it play out in countless people's lives.
agreed! ty for sharing and yes, the nuance can be everything! ❤
Not necessarily true. Professionals dont help unless there mindful or expert in all three. Locally over 5yrs at least have proven inter-reliability is low. Each doctor and psychologist gave me a different dx.
Disclosure/Confounding Factors:
Presentation Instability
Genetic Disorder
Hormonal Disorder
Adherence to Faith
I have 10-12 dx with maybe 3-5 that are core.
I feel like I have been misdiagnosed as having bpd traits when in fact it was cptsd, family issues and substance abuse issues years ago. I have also always had issues connecting to people and labelled "weird", also rejected by my family. Before the abuse I was very normal as far as emotional stability but after the abuse I was changed. This is very interesting because I always wondered if I may has autistic traits. Thank you.
Thank you so much, awaiting ASD diagnosis but can clearly see how misdiagnosis is rampant.
Beautiful work and appreciate your authentic understanding of what your strengths are in the autistic spectrum’s.
🌸
Thank you for the clarifications about each diagnosis!
Awesome video! Thanks so much. Very, very helpful.
Thank you for this video!!!!!
Super informative, thank you!
This was extremely beneficial to me. Thank you so much for sharing this video!
I've been diagnosed with all three.
I am not having a good time.
Brother practice gratitude, focus on whatever good is going for you. Everyone's life is a struggle, we have been given mental struggles instead of competitive struggles. We can enjoy ourselves in creative stuff.
I love your painting
Thank you for all your informative videos! I would love to see something about Avoident Personality Disorder.
So what if a person with a moderate level of ASD gets rejected a lot, developing trauma which leads to CPTSD which causes social and emotional withdrawal so the lack of social development increases leading to a downwards spiral of being rejected or being abandoned which then leads to BPD or other PD traits?? Looking at myself this could very likely be real.
This is possible, but you should get evaluated by a psychiatrist who specializes in autism.
Dr Sage, This is so spot on. I have ASD1 and Cptsd and some traits of BPD type from ASD crossover. Your video explained it so thoroughly, and while you aren’t an autism specialist, we need more caring therapists to take interest. Look up Dr Stephanie C Holmes. She is my counselor and is so passionate about other therapists learning more about autism. If you are ever interested, we need caring therapists like you to help! I was a late in life finding out in my 50’s. Your videos on Cptsd are golden. Thank you! 🙏
THANK U SOOO MUCH. This has been my question for a year! Your amazing and much appreciated ❤️
You are so welcome! Ty for being here!❤
Soooooo helpful legit life changing video
This question has been up with one of my friends, whether mostly of his exes had autism or not, so I sent this info to him, very interesting indeed. I knew some overlap with bpd could be the key... And I also am sure we both have cpdsd, which also sometimes manifests like asd.
One of your best videos Kim 🤓🙏🏻💕
TY so much!!❤❤
Thanks for the insight and spanning the age gap for an old man tired of not understanding why he felt 40 at 4 and 14 at 40.
Like Red Green says we’re in this thing together. I’m pulling for you. Keep your sticks on the ice.
I believe I have all three 🥺 At 37, I'm about to see a counselor for the first time. I hope she can help me. ❤ Thank you for the information.
Good basics about the 3 conditions..
I was raged at daily by an undiagnosed ASD father, and shamed and mocked by him and my narcissistic mother. Explains why I have a distinct personality! I was formally diagnosed ADHD last year. Therapist tells me I also have CPTSD. I'm several sessions in on ASD assessment with an autism specialist psychiatrist. I'm a bit mindful my masking is very good, but I can't see how there will be any conclusion other than I have ASD as well. So how was it my parents could have acted the way they did for all those years? They weaponised the word "normal" against me. i.e. I wasn't. I both wasn't normal and I wasn't perfect. I honestly don't know which of them was worse. My Dad's behaviour can in part be empathised with, even though I feared him the most as a child. Yet I think my Mum was worse. I was speaking with her for the first time since Christmas a week ago, and when I asked her about the time I was in hospital for 2-3 weeks as a child - what the condition was - she said that there was nothing wrong with me and I must have just decided I didn't want to perform at the school musical (missed due to being in hospital). As if that's how hospitals work?
I suspect that means it was either something they did to you, or something congenital. Can't be admitting to any fault now can we
I can relate a lot to this, with a father with undiagnosed ASD and a narcissistic mom(by her own admission, she's rather proud of it). I have an ADHD diagnosis from childhood, but there's no doubt in my mind that I have ASD as well. We had to walk on eggshells with my dad because of his temper, he just couldn't handle irritation of any kind, but my mom was cold as ice and that was worse! My dad and I always got eachother pretty well, but my mom loved to nitpick at me for being like my dad and liked to mock me for being sensitive. I could never do anything right.
I find it really hard to seek the help. I figured out I was ADHD last January, did a lot of research and got referred to assessment. While getting assessed I realised I was also autistic, voiced it but that psychiatrists didn't believe in women with autism and especially not adult women. My therapist and my Dr also now believe I have autism, but the public psychiatrists won't see me because my adhd meds has taken some of the adhd symptoms and there is so many patients so I have to get even worse before they will see me.. On top of all this, I over the last few months have realised I might also have C-PTSD and done a ton of research again but it's not well known in my country since we have not implemented ICD 11 yet, but it is hard to voice because first of all it makes me feel like a hypochondriac.. I've tried to tell my therapist but she don't specialises in that kind of trauma. But I have not been wrong yet.. It's just like all the puzzle pieces makes sense, but I wanna be sure.. While I'm so scared that if I finally get seen, that they will just label me as borderline which I'm sure I'm not because of course I research that aswell since so many get wongly diagnosed with that..
Thank you for this amazing video, and all you do it has helped me so much 🙏
What about the overlapping symptoms of AuDHD (ASD and ADHD) and BPD? Or what all of these diagnoses (ASD, ADHD and BPD) might look like when combined?
Thank you for sharing this it was helpful! I have cptsd only and have been told that by providers, but I have an anxious attachment with fears of abandonment. I think anything abandonment related for me ties into being emotionally abandoned by a NM
I know what mine is and where it came from and my bpd was caused by extreme abuse and years of neglect and untreated trauma endured at a young age
I was recently diagnosed as autistic at 24 years old, and I sought out the evaluation because after learning about autism I felt like it fit but I often still question if it's true. Sometimes I feel like maybe I'm just hypersensitive. I probably am autistic but have a lot of imposter syndrome because nobody in my family believes that it could be true (although my husband sees it and thinks it's absolutely accurate). I think it's hard because societal understanding of autism is of one image and I don't fit that, but I try to remind myself that there are people like Elon Musk and I'm much more like him in terms of the spectrum and in some ways that helps me feel validated that I really am autistic. But so many therapists aren't open to that view either and so that makes therapy hard too. I don't want someone that is just going to overly assume I'm autistic if I might not be, but I also don't want one that will ignore the possibility because it might be outside of their experience and expectations. I just want a therapist that can help me understand myself and my life experiences. Part of me wants to go to therapy and not even tell them I've been diagnosed or that I think I'm autistic and just casually share the traits I have that ended up getting me diagnosed and just see what happens naturally. I don't necessarily care about the title so much as just understanding myself. I have let go of needing my family to accept me as "autistic" by title and just want them to try to understand and accept me as I am with my quirks and if they call it autism or not is whatever in my opinion. I just want to understand myself and help others understand me. And be able to progress in life and be as mentally and emotionally healthy as I can be.
This video is very relevant to me as someone who is diagnosed with ptsd(c-ptsd isn’t an official diagnosis in my country, but I meet the criteria), is being assessed currently for asd, and was formally misdiagnosed multiple times with bpd
I have been diagnosed with C-PTSD but I can relate to all. Ive been wondering if I had mild autism too. But Im not too extreme/destructive as BPD’s but I do have meltdowns that can be similar to those with bpd. I think my mom has BPD though. Either way its alot of suffering and we need to offer each other alot of compassion. ❤
I work with someone who I believe to have BPD - I've been on the end of some of their rages. They have mentioned some dx of cognitive deficits. That may well be true. However, this individual has very good social skills and is very very good at reading people. That's how I would tell the difference in this case.
I have bad social skills and I have BPD.... They're definitely more of a result of splitting and severe emotional dysregulation than autism though. Plus I just feel like I am being taken advantage if I am friendly to people, and I have to use other people to self-regulate and it alienates people. I talk fast and interrupt people a lot when I am anxious and people think it's rude. I'm also anxious just being present around other people (I don't even have to be interacting with them), but I also fear being abandoned.
Hello I absolutely Love the information your share. I would like to suggest you add numbers to your videos to make it easier to get back to. I started watching a video on computer at work . I still haven’t found it. It’s hard searching for a video based on the white blouse you had on. Thank you keep posting ❤️
I have all three of these, so it's been very diffucult and confusing.
I'm currently diagnosed with those exact three disorders. Have been in treatment for BPD and C-PTSD (as well as major depression and social phobia back then) for multiple years and just recently me and my therapist brought up the possibility of me being autistic, after I described my childhood experiences more in depth to him. I ended up being diagnosed with ASD by a professional that specializes in the field and it does explain a lot about my life and certain symptoms I could never explain with my other diagnoses. I do still feel like I relate a lot to the BPD/trauma disorder experience though and my therapist agrees, so I have this big bag of disorders that all overlap in one way or another, trying to figure out what to make of it. I think your video does a wonderful job highlighting those overlaps and giving people a better understanding about what is potentially happening within themselves, since I do believe there are lots of - especially afab - individuals, that get misdiagnosed and only very late in life (if ever) find out they're on the autistic spectrum and I genuinely hope in the future, they will focus more of their research on those individuals as well. BPD and ASD in particular still face a lot of stigma and people either painting you as a problematic attention-seeker (BPD) or infantilizing you as an adult due to being on the autistic spectrum. I really want to help educate people more about those disorders and how misunderstood they are and I could only hope more professionals would be as informed on those topics as you are, since it would certainly help clients being able to understand themselves and get the proper care they require a lot sooner.
i was wondering if i was the only one that had the traits for the 3 haha
omg here i am trying to figure myself out
Are we still defining ASD on the DSM-5 that was based off of a bunch of young white boys?
Pretty sure I've had all of these, but emotional and traumatic issues happening as a result of being a misunderstood autistic Asian girl growing up in a world that didn't understand how to deal with someone like me. I couldn't help but notice she misspelled autism "austism" lol
Thanks 🙄 so much for speaking so inhumanly about people, like myself, who live with BPD. It is doctors like you who perpetuate stigma towards BPD. The way you say how in the latest research that you know is that up to 20% of BPD cases is not caused by trauma. You completely ingnor the fact that that means a minimum of 80% or 8/10 people who live with BPD had at least some of the cause of it to be trauma. How you, and others like you, can speak about BPD with so little compassion I will never understand.
I think BPD stigma is actually causing a lot of people to milk an ASD diagnosis. Just my opinion though. There are people with bad social skills that aren't autistic, but are being mislabeled as such. I know my bad social skills are the result of BPD traits, and I have the emotional dysregulation component very severely. I don't have sensory issues like an autistic though. Being in an emotionally dysregulated state causes me to feel a heightened sensitivity to pain, gives me a fluttering chest and jaw pain to the point of distracting me in social interactions. However, I don't go into meltdowns from bright lights or loud sounds. Sometimes I feel I am slightly more sensitive when stressed, but not to the point of a meltdown. I only have meltdowns when I am afraid people will ghost me, or perceive them to be passive aggressive towards me. I also have a lot of socially avoidant behavior. I am afraid to be nice or warm towards people who are not nice to me first, so people always get a bad first impression of me. Being nice first makes me worry other will take advantage of me or see me as weak or think I am flirting with them. I also talk super fast when I am anxious, interrupt people, do things carelessly so they think I am rude.
ADHD falls in there too
Yes it does- it was just becoming too long! thx for the reminder:)
And for females PMDD often times has A LOT of overlap and often PMDD is comorbid with C-PTSD (or more specifically a history of SA), ADHD, and ASD. It's all very confusing 😅
@@LuvBugBlaqkHart starting to wonder if PMDD is partially a PTSD response- ie, not feeling in control of your body due to sexual trauma
Was diagnosed last year with BPD and I feel fortunate to have found the right medication for me. As my PD got better managed, there was still plenty still not right with my mental health. I now strongly suspect ASD and avoidant PD. Already on LexaPro, which I understand can be one of the meds for treating ASD. My worst symptoms for now are anger management, and my current weekly goal is to not be a nightmare to have to interact with.
LoL Or live with ourselves.
This video was extremely helpful. I have CPTSD and resonated with all the similarities that were listed for BPD and ASD (shame, paranoia). Aren't those aspects of CPTSD as well?
Thank you. May I enquire as to the name of the painting in the background? Blessings to you ❤
Thank you, you're so right about everything. Its so very true. I got C-Ptsd from the abuse. I am Empath. I am 47 i am the oldest out of five children my parents had. I went to Jesus cause of the abuse. I been a Christian for over ten years. Jesus is our hope. I know my worth and values. My peace comes from God. God is great all the time.i always been the black sheep in my family. I walk away from Narcissists. Its not worth it to say anything to them since they don't get it. I stay calm and quiet. I enjoy doing hints for myself now. Both of my parents are Narcissists so is my grand mother. My brothers and sisters are Narcissists Enablers. Narcissists enablers are just as bad as Narcissists. Narcissists are liars. Narcissists are insecure people . Narcissists always act like they are the victim. Narcissists never loved us. Narcissists don't care about you at all. Narcissists are broken people. Narcissists are fake and phony people. Narcissists are pure evil souls from the Devil.
❤🫂 💯😊
I dont know how people can say Bpd and cptsd are the same thing, as when i did somatic trauma therapy it made a big difference for me (night and day). a personality disorder wouldnt just change so drastically and quickly like that
Yeah, I think people with BPD have a harder time separating their emotions and cognitive distortions from their identity, while autistics have a harder time separating sensations, repetitive behaviors and other quirks from their identity. People with CPTSD have similar issues too but understand they are separate from their ego, thus easier to treat (just a theory).
In that they present so much alike.
Hi Kim,
In your videos, have you, addressed the, and considered. EMOTIONAL INTELLIGENCE.?
When would say, emotional intelligence starts to develop.In an individual or individuals.
U are so nice.
I appreciate your vast pool of knowledge and how willing you are to share it with others. My only suggestion would be to please talk slower and don’t try to cover so much detailed information in such a short period of time. I had a basic understanding of all 3 disorders before I listened to your presentation. By the end, I was terribly confused. Thank you again for your time. I don’t mean to offend you.
To treat these as absolute seperate conditions is a mistake. People can certainly have complex trauma + BPD.
PTSD can also be added after to BPD. BPD will be more vulnerable and at risk of PTSD.
CPTSD Example: alcoholic mother, witnessing domestic violent, bullying, raised until age 11 in a cult, unable to speak about potential life threatening health problem age 14. Current narrow definition of CPTSD is too narrow, but DSM is always behind most up to date thinking, inevitably.
I'm autistic and have some pda. I also had cptsd which is mostly resolved now. I had love addiction, codependence and anxious attachment style. All much better now. At my worst I'm sure I could have been misdiagnosed as bpd.
I have both autism and bpd and it's honestly isolating😢
I have all three. But my autism tends to make my fear of abandonment do the whole “you’re gonna leave me anyway, so I’m gonna leave you behind that wall, might love you, can’t tell, and keep doing things to self sabotage, coz what does it matter anyway.” I end up ending the relationship before I can get ended on me, I’m not worth sticking around for anyway. But I have an intense sense of empathy so it takes way longer than it should, I don’t want to hurt anyone. But it doesn’t seem to matter if other people hurt me? Plus I get lied to so much. Just because I’m autistic doesn’t mean I don’t pick up on things. It actually helps because i spot patterns and continuity errors very well.
I've been diagnosed with chronic ptsd from childhood. I split for sure and waiver back and forth depending on if my ptsd triggers are activated. Does that mean I could have borderline?
Dr Kim, after watching your videos I have looked a little more into autism and have scored on assessments of being just over the line for high functioning or borderline autism. Because of the language used I'm a little confused, does "borderline autism" mean on the borderline of autism, or is this a coexistence of BPD and autism? Thank you :)
I think your information is mostly great. However, from the perspective of someone who strongly suspects I am Autistic, the diagnostic criteria is all from a neurotypical perspective under the assumption that neurotypical is superior and other ways of being are 'impaired.' A lot of Autistic people think that neurotypical people have poor interpersonal communication. The diagnoses all rely on the assumption that the most common way of being is superior. Super outdated way of thinking that makes me ponder how people used to believe being white was superior. Maybe read about the double empathy bind as Autistic individuals communicate very well with others of their neurotype. Your video is much better than many though! I realise the DSM is the true culprit here :)
I agree. In a world that was made up of neurodiverse people, there wouldn't be any issues in communication at all. I also like to remind my neurotypical acquaintance's that if it wasn't for ASD you probably wouldn't have that smartphone in your hand (Turing etc...).
I particularly like the various spoof DSM's that are around for "neurotypical spectrum disorders"😂.
I've added my own slant to this too, when I describe the neurotypical "savant" - the fact that there are a few NT's who excel in science, arts, philosophy etc....
Maybe someone could study this rare and interesting small group of people?
😂
This is another thing that makes me realize I'm not autistic. I don't get along with anyone. Autistic people think I'm "one of them" until they trigger me worse than neurotypical people do (I'm BPD). I might feel safer around autistic people at first because we are both "outcasts" but then they make me feel like I am stupid, and invalidate my emotions even worse than NTs do. Autistic people think I'm too much of a drama queen also, and too ambiguous when I speak, and my knowledge of topics is too superficial.
I'm definitely one of these.. Being the oldest I felt and seen my mothers rage.. She would have my dad beat me at least a couple times a week.. I was a hard worker starting early at 10 or 11.. I was making more than my dad and mom by the time I was 14 ( 66 now).. My money was "stolen" all the time.. I'm sure some is still buried in the woods that I didn't find.. When 14 I cut the grass at my church plus 30 other lawns and had a key for the tractor shed at the church.
The trifecta
I am not a doctor but l think that what also makes ASD similar to BPD is that often the first one goves together with ADHD .
I've already been diagnosed with c-ptsd, but I was in separate classes in school for very long time with no explanation to my mom when I was in elementary school. Middle school and high school I was no longer in those classes. As a kid I was reading at five levels over what I was supposed to be in Elementary School and had almost straight days until I move back after a a traumatic incident right before grade 10. In that class they had me Trace out the alphabet and treated me like I didn't know anything. I wasn't the only kid in my class I feel like most of the kids in my class should not have been taken out of regular class because we weren't dumb we just learned a different way but we all had decent grades. There was no reason for them to make a different class for us. Now I'm 27 years old, we know that my baby sister has ADHD and my mom shows a lot of traits as well. All of the things that I've been looking into run in my family. I keep running into things that are explained by me having autism and cptsd and its a lot.( sensory issues, having a hard time with people my own age, only hanging out with adults, not knowing how to play with other kids, my favourite food was Ice, I had a house full of toys but I played with dice, I have a crazy interest in reptiles to this day, Etc...
Every time i think that is just some random thing i did cuz its me, its always explained as neurodivergent. I'm not mad about it oh, it's just very difficult to explain to people that have no idea what the hell any of that is.
Sorry if that did not make any sense, I'm using voice to text
Do you think fetal alcohol syndrome could be similar?
Has anyone had results with Schema therapy or mentalization therapy?
My daughter was diagnosed with BPD at an early (6) age. I have cptsd that wasn't diagnosed until three years ago. It is extremely hard for me to spend time with her now that she is an adult. It is stressing our relationship,
Well I know that I have complex PTSD 100%.
Regarding borderline personality, I'm not sure. You gave some good information though. I have some of the traits but at this point in my life, I have mellowed out and and more grounded. So I believe I have some traits of borderline, but I have no idea if I would be diagnosed as one.
Autism I wondered about that as well, although I have learned to socially get the gist of what is going on. I think I pick up too much information about other people.
I'm a level 2 autistic with CPTSD (yes, I'm a mess). More symptoms overlap with schizoid personality disorder. But it's not my case.
Such an interesting and informative video! Thank you Dr Sage. I would be interested to know where codependency fits in with these diagnosis and how they link to relationships with people with NPD. I'm realising such a history of BPD in my family tree and how this has contributed to what I think is my own CPTSD. Thank you for sharing your wisdom and knowledge so beautifully 🙏💙
I will add it to my topic list!! TY!❤
@@DrKimSageoh thank you so much! 🙏💙
A very interesting question and need.
The system tagged me with another Dx, although I present more like a borderline.
I suspect both the other two, but, at 71 may never find out.
The Cptsd I can mostly attribute to my NPD brothers.
One of which tells me I'm codependent. As if they aren't! (A Classic ECHO / SLP child.)
Which put me at a severe verbal disadvantage, especially, after the amnesia, and possible TIAs.
And where the truth is stranger than fiction!
Thanking you in advance, Kim.
I really wish you could help me I'm 44 and my life is a huge struggle as I'm not getting the help I need I wish I had someone like you to help me learn tools for getting better
I've been watching your videos for years and they are very helpful. But I take issue with a comment you make in this one. At the beginning you state that borderline personality disorder is who We are which to me as a person with b p d contributes to the stigma behind it. I have learned through counseling and continued research that it is not who I am but It is a disorder that I have.
I will continue to watch your videosas they have contributed largely to my continued recovery. Just wanted to share.
I love my boyfriend so much and he is the only one in my life that I think loves me. But i'm always feeling he will leave me because I have a low self steem, and something bad will happen someday, I don't fear abandonment, but I feel like I have trust issues, when we have a big fight i'm thinking "oh well this is the end.' when it's just a fight. I think it's cptsd
Could you do a video comparing an INTP personality and autism?
I’m still unsure what I have but the vilification of BPD, especially when there is so much overlap with autism and childhood ptsd, doesn’t sit right with me…
I would really appreciate it if someone could tell me if the three of them can actually coexist in the same individual and if there is any hope for them to get better
I just wanted to add there is a cultural aspect of "abuse". I have see therapist as long as I can remember. In America they said my dad was just strict a military man. In Germany I talk to the doctors and they say humm honey, that's abuse. Who do I believe?
I think possibly in terms of their approach to the military, the US and Germany right now might well be polar opposites
can you have bpd and autism? I believe that my bpd is accurate I just also think that theres a potential for a neurodevelopmental overlap, especially with my adhd.
Can you do a video about someone who could have all three disorders consecutively, please?
Gosh I’m wondering where high sensitivity goes into the mix..
Similar to the “chance” cards in monopoly, the DSM has the definitions you can get through trauma with autism. Like some dark twisted sorting house.
The more trauma you receive the more DSM “chance” cards you get. Unfortunately, similar to the sorting house, you have don’t get to pick your bonus mental augmentation.
Is it possible to have all 3?
So I have cptsd but I do stimming, have face blindness, am accused of being too logical and literal, can’t do or get sub text or tell when people are joking, can’t knowingly tell a lie but as an aging female have been denied an autism diagnosis because I can do eye contact, what do you reckon, are those things also part of cptsd?
I personally think that can be part of CPTSD.
@@natatattful even stimming and savant maths?
@@ladymuck2 Yes, for stimming. Everyone can stim, autistic people just do it more and not just in stressful situations.
Why would you be denied a diagnosis? That makes no sense. That definitely sounds like it could be autism. Yep, I've heard of some people being brushed off as they could do eye contact,etc.but no serious specialist would do it. Don't know where you are and what the process is but maybe just try someone else? It's not like it's a disease and urgent to diagnose, but heck, you deserve it if it's something that would help you.
Mental health will reject ASD based on eye contact unless they have additional ASD expertise.
You look like Jessica lange 😍
Is it possible to have both BPD and ASD?
Is there someone here with BPD and ASD? I've been in therapy for quite a while and now that I've found more stability I feel that I might have other issues that the BPD diagnosis doesn't explaine.
Is it possibile to have both? Anf if yes, how do you feel having both?
I am afraid i am getting more and more assured that i have autism, adhd, bpd & cptsd alongwith my socual anxiety and generalised anxiety disorder. I m 37 and have mostly been detached with my problems dye yo substance abuse. Whenever i quit its refreshing and i seem to behave and think normally few months till the burnout hits and i go on web searching for whats wrong with me, i lag behind in all the new things i start and everything keepd mounting till the time its absolutely unmanageble. Then the cycle comes back and i take to drugs again. Opiods have ruined my teeth and memory, only good thing is i havent felt time and mental pain, time has flyed by so fast on pills. But now at more mature age and kinda wisdom i hope i dont fall into the pit again