I lived with a guy like this. We were roommates who worked at the same place. He would come home everywhere day pissed off and would be snarky and mean to me. Near the end of us living together, he was particularly mean and I had asked him why he was acting like that to me. He replied "because you're here!". That, along with some other behaviors he displayed made me feel really unsafe living with him so I ended up breaking the lease and moving out. Once I had he smeared me to a bunch of people we both worked with. I was a pariah afterwards because these people believed him as I normally kept to myself and didn't talk to other people so much. It was aweful.
This is exactly what I’ve had to learn - that I have needs! When I have needs, I can ask for help. Usually, for my emotional stability, I rely on a therapist to help me recognize what I need and how I can get what I need. The abusive ex and I were in a relational dance in which he never asked, and I gave, and I asked and he never gave. I left that dance and learned to know my own needs and to put up boundaries regarding others’ needs. I was unhealthy, and drawn toward unhealthy individuals. Now I’m healthier and recognize the emotional capacity of others better than in the past.
I endured narcissistic abuse for decades. I've had to go No Contact. I'm trying to build a life for myself for the first time. Narcissistic types are children in adult bodies, that's how they react. Except actual children are civil and reasonable in comparison.
This is so helpful and a key for unlocking from the CN. It's a kind of emotional dumping or vomiting. You're a receptical for them to unload, rather than a mutual conversation.
Thanks Dr. Craig, very helpful. I call that whinning/complaining display, they just complain but never do anything to change what they complain about and never take any responsability about the situation they dont like. Exhausting!
Press their buttons. I just had a book about narcissism in front of me. In addition to a suspected...person. Another person noticed the book. We began to talk. This person I suspect...is suddenly...very busy ie backing out of a relationship. Now this is just a female friend. A very controlling...demanding...person who uses others.... When they know you look at their behaviors. They back up.
Could you flesh this out a lot more? Specifically the pieces that are missing, what healthy requests for support can look and sound like, and what the passive aggressive behavior looks like in real life, please!! I listed twice and took notes, this video covered a few blindspots I had. Appreciate you!! 😊
Thank you for your clarity. I divorced some years ago and yet it is relatively recently that I now understand the patterns we established and repeated over a thirty year marriage. My ex and I were locked in a sad, repetitive dance between a covert narcissist and a care taker wife.
Thank you! This is very helpful to me. I hope it will help me discern the difference between someone asking for support in a context of mutual respect, and someone enacting a concerning display.
It seems there is a presumption that people go through multiple relationships with multiple narcissists. I am married to one for almost 50 years. It has not been easy!
That was so helpful! Emotion v emotionality. It explains so much. Please keep going, and keep posting. I read your book and I followed your past posts. I have not found anyone else who is so knowledgeable on the role of the Echoist and the Ways we are enmeshed.
Please do say more on this topic as it’s very confusing when you’re in the relationship and you’re not sure if the drama is genuine or for attention. Please talk about borderlines too and how to discern their behaviour- Thankyou 🙏
Your videos and book helped me understand my mother who can’t be vulnerable. Are you opposed to doing a video on the difference between provocation by both someone with narcissistic traits and someone with borderline traits? My mother provokes and if I assert a boundary then she blames shifts. And then uses guilt it makes it seem like the world is falling apart suddenly and I am the cause when she provoked. I am positive she has treats within both but not necessarily to warrant a full-blown diagnosis. I am learning to practice cognitive empathy to try to understand her but I must admit it is exhausting to be with someone especially your own mother when you don’t feel seen, heard or understood. I used to think boundaries made me selfish but now I realize that was just the echo talking. Thank you very much for all you do.
Omgoodness this was my marriage of 24 yrs to a narc/addict. He had 6 job losses (RPH) always someone else’s fault. Truth…… he could not control the district managers & diverted. I see so clearly now that I’m away from this person. His trauma was not my responsibility. Never able to regulate. Self medicate instead. Now addicted to social media, porn, anabolic steroids. We did have times of very healthy recovery, therapy, remarried. It all fell apart . I signed divorce papers yesterday. I believe he’s living a bisexual life now. I rise to health & happiness thanks to do much help in therapy & these videos.
“Emotionality as a display! “ To differentiate waged emotion from true feeling requires that one has an inner sense - that evhoidts lack! Please tell us how to grow or regain that inner sense of ourselves!!!
Interesting video, especially when you were talking about having concerning behavior, but they never ask for help. It seems when we do offer our help, they get mad. Is that because they don't want to be seen as a victim, even though they're reacting as though they are one?
I'd love to see a video where you talk about the fairly rare phenomenon of the complexities of people who are narcissists but who have admitted it and are actually in therapy doing the work but also how their partners are supposed to handle that reality. Because odds are there was still probably years of hurt and emotional abuse that happened prior to diagnosis and work and partners can see the small changes but still have to try to avoid getting triggered by the painful stuff among other issues. So I'd be curious if you'd do any videos that talk about narcissists who did actually do the work and what expectations are realistic in that case?
I’ve never been in any romantic relationship or lived with any narcissistic partner- I’m going to find out who put cameras inside my bedroom- you’d have to be a psychopath to do this to someone or to think I actually said something to deserve this. A camera inside my bedroom! Someone did that to me. The crime is still not solved - they were there for 3 years- many people knew any thought it was funny- putting a camera inside someone’s bedroom is a sexual assault. It’s that damaging- probably worse . I want the platforms asked to gaslight me to help solve this crime. And the douche that continues to lied to get away with it to stop !!
When I lived at home and my.mom died...my.sister the oaych nursexsaid " we cry putkr tears in private" same with my job.I had a boss who was a total covert but did. Not see the scapegoating coming ...my sister licked me out of the house two moths after I could not make rent.my dig had cancer. So no there are so.e circumstances .I had to walk my sick golden ten miles to my dads home in the blizzard
@@CraigMalkin are you aware of any research to determine if NPD is visible on brain scans. If NPD could be detected and cured the levels of conflict in the world will be reduced. Also could you and Dr Ramani do a joint video...that could be the dream team!
Kindly say more about this topic and its because my husband is a NPD . I'm just aware already in the past months I'd know I haven't had so much information till now. But I am glad I have a better understanding already I knew God has delivered me many times in many ways. Thank you to Jesus seriously who has been in my Life why me and my kids are not going to get in to pain emotionally again.
I appreciate the distinction between CN and covert abuse. But… I think there’s a connection (ie they aren’t two totally different things). I’ve just left a 17 year relationship with someone I believe is a covert narcissist. All abuse was covert (in the sense that nobody else saw it). I think this was possible because of her outward persona and the total lack of understanding for the multiple faces of narcissism. This may be why laypeople conflate CA with CN. Am I misunderstanding your distinction?
I lived with a guy like this. We were roommates who worked at the same place. He would come home everywhere day pissed off and would be snarky and mean to me. Near the end of us living together, he was particularly mean and I had asked him why he was acting like that to me. He replied "because you're here!". That, along with some other behaviors he displayed made me feel really unsafe living with him so I ended up breaking the lease and moving out. Once I had he smeared me to a bunch of people we both worked with. I was a pariah afterwards because these people believed him as I normally kept to myself and didn't talk to other people so much. It was aweful.
Thank you! ....."when you recognize your own needs are not being met is so important in overcoming echoism." 🌹
So glad you found it helpful
This is exactly what I’ve had to learn - that I have needs! When I have needs, I can ask for help.
Usually, for my emotional stability, I rely on a therapist to help me recognize what I need and how I can get what I need.
The abusive ex and I were in a relational dance in which he never asked, and I gave, and I asked and he never gave.
I left that dance and learned to know my own needs and to put up boundaries regarding others’ needs.
I was unhealthy, and drawn toward unhealthy individuals. Now I’m healthier and recognize the emotional capacity of others better than in the past.
I endured narcissistic abuse for decades. I've had to go No Contact. I'm trying to build a life for myself for the first time.
Narcissistic types are children in adult bodies, that's how they react. Except actual children are civil and reasonable in comparison.
Yes.
This is so helpful and a key for unlocking from the CN. It's a kind of emotional dumping or vomiting. You're a receptical for them to unload, rather than a mutual conversation.
So glad it helped!
very true!!
Thanks Dr. Craig, very helpful. I call that whinning/complaining display, they just complain but never do anything to change what they complain about and never take any responsability about the situation they dont like. Exhausting!
so glad you liked it!
Press their buttons. I just had a book about narcissism in front of me. In addition to a suspected...person. Another person noticed the book. We began to talk. This person I suspect...is suddenly...very busy ie backing out of a relationship. Now this is just a female friend. A very controlling...demanding...person who uses others.... When they know you look at their behaviors. They back up.
Could you flesh this out a lot more? Specifically the pieces that are missing, what healthy requests for support can look and sound like, and what the passive aggressive behavior looks like in real life, please!!
I listed twice and took notes, this video covered a few blindspots I had.
Appreciate you!! 😊
I really love the concept of "echoism". Survivors can really benefit from this. Thank you.
I have a support group on Facebook as well.
Thank you for your clarity. I divorced some years ago and yet it is relatively recently that I now understand the patterns we established and repeated over a thirty year marriage. My ex and I were locked
in a sad, repetitive dance between a covert narcissist and a care taker wife.
Thank you! This is very helpful to me. I hope it will help me discern the difference between someone asking for support in a context of mutual respect, and someone enacting a concerning display.
It seems there is a presumption that people go through multiple relationships with multiple narcissists. I am married to one for almost 50 years. It has not been easy!
That was so helpful! Emotion v emotionality. It explains so much. Please keep going, and keep posting. I read your book and I followed your past posts. I have not found anyone else who is so knowledgeable on the role of the Echoist and the Ways we are enmeshed.
Wow! Thank you so much
Please do say more on this topic as it’s very confusing when you’re in the relationship and you’re not sure if the drama is genuine or for attention. Please talk about borderlines too and how to discern their behaviour- Thankyou 🙏
Your videos and book helped me understand my mother who can’t be vulnerable. Are you opposed to doing a video on the difference between provocation by both someone with narcissistic traits and someone with borderline traits? My mother provokes and if I assert a boundary then she blames shifts. And then uses guilt it makes it seem like the world is falling apart suddenly and I am the cause when she provoked. I am positive she has treats within both but not necessarily to warrant a full-blown diagnosis. I am learning to practice cognitive empathy to try to understand her but I must admit it is exhausting to be with someone especially your own mother when you don’t feel seen, heard or understood. I used to think boundaries made me selfish but now I realize that was just the echo talking. Thank you very much for all you do.
Omgoodness this was my marriage of 24 yrs to a narc/addict. He had 6 job losses (RPH) always someone else’s fault. Truth…… he could not control
the district managers & diverted.
I see so clearly now that I’m away from this person. His trauma was not my responsibility. Never able to regulate. Self medicate instead.
Now addicted to social media, porn,
anabolic steroids.
We did have times of very healthy recovery, therapy, remarried.
It all fell apart . I signed divorce papers yesterday. I believe he’s living a bisexual life now.
I rise to health & happiness thanks to do much help in therapy & these videos.
“Emotionality as a display! “
To differentiate waged emotion from true feeling requires that one has an inner sense - that evhoidts lack!
Please tell us how to grow or regain that inner sense of ourselves!!!
I needed to know this distinction between the overt & covert narcissist. You are helping me so much. Thank you!
Wonderful!
Interesting video, especially when you were talking about having concerning behavior, but they never ask for help. It seems when we do offer our help, they get mad. Is that because they don't want to be seen as a victim, even though they're reacting as though they are one?
Thanks for the defining the differences, looking forward to your follow-up!
I’m on vacation but I might be able to sneak in oh shoot on Thursday as usual so I can stick to my weekly schedule
I'd love to see a video where you talk about the fairly rare phenomenon of the complexities of people who are narcissists but who have admitted it and are actually in therapy doing the work but also how their partners are supposed to handle that reality. Because odds are there was still probably years of hurt and emotional abuse that happened prior to diagnosis and work and partners can see the small changes but still have to try to avoid getting triggered by the painful stuff among other issues. So I'd be curious if you'd do any videos that talk about narcissists who did actually do the work and what expectations are realistic in that case?
Yes, this was very helpful. Thanks.
So glad you liked it!
I’ve never been in any romantic relationship or lived with any narcissistic partner- I’m going to find out who put cameras inside my bedroom- you’d have to be a psychopath to do this to someone or to think I actually said something to deserve this. A camera inside my bedroom! Someone did that to me. The crime is still not solved - they were there for 3 years- many people knew any thought it was funny- putting a camera inside someone’s bedroom is a sexual assault. It’s that damaging- probably worse . I want the platforms asked to gaslight me to help solve this crime. And the douche that continues to lied to get away with it to stop !!
Thank you! More info on covert abuse.
Next video
@@CraigMalkin greatly appreciate your wisdom on how to deal with this covert types in a family setting.
When I lived at home and my.mom died...my.sister the oaych nursexsaid " we cry putkr tears in private" same with my job.I had a boss who was a total covert but did. Not see the scapegoating coming ...my sister licked me out of the house two moths after I could not make rent.my dig had cancer. So no there are so.e circumstances .I had to walk my sick golden ten miles to my dads home in the blizzard
Another great video and good review. Thanks Dr. Malkin!
So glad you loved it!
Thank you
thankyou, that really explains what i do with friends /relatives that text or phone me
You’re great 👍🏼 Dr Craig!
Aw. Thanks!!
Excellent!
what is thethe name of your book for covert narcissism?
I cover all forms of narcissism in rethinking narcissism :-)
Could you provide an update on any effective strategies for a person with NPD to change
Thank you! And maybe in the future genetic predisposion. Comorbid dx's
I’ve talked about that before but I’m happy to do a short video on it
@@CraigMalkin i found your old stuff. I look at object relations.
@@edgreen8140 So do I :-) I just don’t call them that for the public. I translate theoretical terms into experience near language
@@CraigMalkin are you aware of any research to determine if NPD is visible on brain scans. If NPD could be detected and cured the levels of conflict in the world will be reduced.
Also could you and Dr Ramani do a joint video...that could be the dream team!
This is very familiar. It answers my previous comment.
Kindly say more about this topic and its because my husband is a NPD . I'm just aware already in the past months I'd know I haven't had so much information till now. But I am glad I have a better understanding already I knew God has delivered me many times in many ways. Thank you to Jesus seriously who has been in my Life why me and my kids are not going to get in to pain emotionally again.
I appreciate the distinction between CN and covert abuse. But… I think there’s a connection (ie they aren’t two totally different things). I’ve just left a 17 year relationship with someone I believe is a covert narcissist. All abuse was covert (in the sense that nobody else saw it). I think this was possible because of her outward persona and the total lack of understanding for the multiple faces of narcissism. This may be why laypeople conflate CA with CN. Am I misunderstanding your distinction?
👍❤🙏
Hi… your sound needs some improvement.
Dia gak mau minta bantuan orang
you need therapy too