I have a very narcissistic brother. Normally, he talks( lectures, pontificates, etc) and I listen. On one particular occasion, around the holidays, I decided to interrupt one of his nonstop monologues about himself by sharing something that had recently happened to ME that I thought was pretty cool. I had spent the holidays caroling with a choir that went around to nursing homes, juvenile detention centers, hospitals, and one of the places we’d gone to was the Veteran’s Administration hospital near UCLA. There, I told my brother, I met a patient, close to 100 years old, who’d been one of the soldiers who liberated Dachau. My brother’s response, after a beat of silence, was, “You know, Dachau wasn’t really an extermination camp.” The average person would have said, “Oh wow.” But he (in his own mind)got one-upped, felt less-than, and quickly needed to reestablish his superiority. It gets tiresome.
Oof, yikes. Reminds me of the time I went to lunch with my coworkers and watched an American Post Doc tell our Afghani grad student what Afghanistan was like. 😂 Like, dude grew up there, but do go on... 🤣
Why is that a perfect example? He simply behaves differently than expected. You actually expect him to praise you. So it comes across. He doesn't and you feel bad about it. What he does though, he is stating a fact. Try to think why you really shared he story. I mean really why? What was your motive?
The example was VERY helpful. I went head on and kindly asked that he not not inject his opinion, give advice unless I explicitly ask. The reaction was anger and defensiveness, told me it was about my history. I ended it.
When you think about it, it's really heartbreaking. It must be so painful to exist like this. Mind you, I've suffered quite a bit from narcissistic abuse, but it's hard not to feel compassion for someone who suffers so deeply themselves. I have just about given up on my relationship with my brother. My next step, and final attempt, is to call him out and demand he get help. I know this is ill-advised, but I can no longer cope. At this point, I'm not sure I even care if I lose him in my life. There don't seem to be any viable options for the loved ones of extreme narcissists. Every resource that I research, suggests that it is a lost cause. I've been trying to figure this "problem" out for such a long time; makes one feel quite helpless. If anyone has ever waged a successful "intervention", I'm all ears!
I have no idea what this psychologist will say regarding treatment. Dr. Malkin received his degree and education in the last century. That is said with respect, and I do respect him. The word that narcissist describes is psychopathy. It is a mental disability caused by the underdevelopment of the amygdala, (a paired structure near the hippocampus). This underdevelopment is what causes a person to be a psychopath, and those behaviors are on a spectrum. My sister acts like this, cuel, impulsive, without empathy. There are 20 characteristics. I was slow to see it but my wife caught on right away and because of her causing a un needed rift in the family we cut ties with her. Things happen in families and that is sad. The only thing you can do with a psychopath is to cut ties and end the relationship. That is the consensus of every case that I have read, and also advised. Every person with this disability will harm you in the end, and in extreme cases can be dangerous. Read books about psychopathy. "The Psychopath Whisperer" by Kent A Kiehl, PhD. "The Fear Factor", by Abigail Marsh PhD. (A good book, she studied the amygdala and is a woman's perspective of altruism, and evolution). I am reading every book I can. The word narcissist is not a scientific word. Good luck to you.
I discovered recently on thinking back to the beginning of my relationship, with what seems to be an ASPD (?), an extreme narc . We were 21 and i did grow up in abusive home, i was a very anxious person and also very self critical. My narc partner was so attractive to me because he had absolutely no anxiety about anything and was incredibly self appreciative. I was genuinely impressed by his ability to do absolutely ANYTHING without batting an eyelid, mostly only chuckling to himself how successful he always was, when i fretted and worried all the time. I wanted to be like him. Turned out these traits were also excellent for him to commit crimes, fraud, speeding constantly at >200kph, and doing it all with me in tow...... 😖🤯 not so impressive as time went on. 36 years later, still hate cars, struggling to survive etc. even after no contact for a decade. He did all the red flags upon first meeting - charm, fast car, mr helpful, expensive presents. Thats my take 😃 some of them are so easy to pick quickly, if only we knew that decades ago. Anyway, all that speaks to your theory of Vulnerability Dodge. Im fascinated that i found that attractive, because i felt so vulnerable myself.
Adding chapters to the videos are so helpful so that I can jump sections as reminders! The grad school example really resonated with me. My vulnerable narcissistic ex sowed seeds of doubt when I was taking prerequisites for nursing school. Happy to say I left that relationship and now entering first year in the Fall! What's more disturbing was that his mother tried to dissuade me when I mentioned I had a dream of continuing on after for grad school. I'm starting to believe she is the narcissistic parent. It would be great if you had a video on that relationship with narcissistic sons and narcissistic parents!
Thank you for this. Just realized someone I know is an extreme narcissist. Projects everything & puts on a facade of "confidence" that's clearly insecurity. Sad but sooo manipulative too. And I don't know that they'll ever be able to help themselves.
What about the genetic components? My husband is a covert narcissist but he did not do the parenting. He was too busy “working “ in a very high position in finance. Didn’t really care about my daughters and me. I was truly a very good mother. My older daughter was a very big problem very early on. I’m not a narcissist. I have been in intensive therapy and point blank asked 2 therapists. One specialized in narcissistic personality disorder. I am an extreme empath which has caused me a lot of pain. My daughter has had eating disorders from the age of 8. Was diagnosed as bipolar at 15. Conducted disorder at 15 when she threatened to kill me in my sleep when I came out of the bathroom and she was lying on my bed with a chilling smirk. Then malignant narcissist at about age 20. I did everything possible to help her. Alone. My husband said nothing was wrong with her and that I was crazy despite the havoc she caused to everyone close to her especially me. It didn’t bother him. She’s 43 and worse than ever. Abusing me, my husband now that we’re elderly and sick. Her husband. Worst of all her 4 young children. Others along the way. She’s a psychopath. She’s terrifying doing horrific things that no one would believe. There are others like her in the family. Nephew diagnosed with Antisocial Personality Disorder, also his mother-my sister is a sociopath. My father was an abusive narcissist. My father in law was bipolar. Mother in law a narcissist and schizophrenic. There has to be a genetic component here. Her childhood was very loving and supportive as far as I was concerned.
Yes, it's another good sign (one of so many) of the vulnerability of narcissistic people, but in my case it was the constant defensiveness, even about such small things as a difference of opinion, that had me walking on eggshells most of the time around my friend. I learned to keep quiet about my opinions and only express those that were in agreement. I couldn't be myself. At the time I knew nothing about narcissism, just regarded her as not an 'easy' person. Only as things between us got worse and she had an angry meltdown, did I suspect a personality disorder and started researching, did the pennies start to drop.
I definitely have the opinion/personal experience that the signature move/telltale sign of someone with an NPD emotional core is the emotional projection component (of negative feelings). [+ coupled with strong emotional denial characteristic makes perfect sense as it is generally a prerequisite]. The projection can be quite subtle and underhand too, although definitely not always the case. I emphasize that projection is the key component because a desire to not to discuss emotions relating to vulnerability coupled with a strong emotional self sufficiency drive can apply as well those who suffer from Avoidant Personality Disorder. I have a friend who exhibits APD traits but is given an extremely hard time by other peers (accusations of being "cold", "mean" & "uncaring") even though they never gaslight, rage out, gossip, covet the limelight or throw around any negative accusations of others (in private or public). False accusations of being selfish to such types can be quite harmful. Unsurprisingly my friend simply runs away from the crowd even more as a result, even though he is in an extremely tough personal situation and in a form of "survival mode" and in reality, could do with a bit more support. It is great that NPD is being discussed much more now and taken more seriously. Having said that, I have noticed people throwing around the accusations of "being a narcissist" with way too much abandon and an extreme lack of analysis or understanding in certain circles (looking at tabloid journalists/social media especially). I hope one day the right balance on the NPD discussion and the best methods to deal with it will be found.
I agree with most of this and I’ve discussed projection and denial at length in previous videos. At the same time projection is not unique to narcissism and pairing with self-sufficiency is not what makes it unique to narcissism-it’s the pairing of the vulnerability dodge with self-enhancement or the drive to feel special (which can be positive or negative)
@@CraigMalkin That makes sense, I am very far away from being any expert so I'm sure full blown scientific research is far more precise than merely my personal observations! I will bear all of this in mind in the future. Thank you for the reply!
And you think they are caring about you. Giving you good suggestions But instead they are Manipulating you So you don’t understand them until you find out over time that they are taking you down! This is why it is so to trust anyone anymore !!!!!!!
I'm a little confused. I think that covert narcissists often expres those feelings, but they don't want to go deeply and only are hunting shallow form of ‘nice words' to feel better. If you try to go deep down and make questions to understand better, they get angry. Maybe this can be some form of play the victim as well. In the reverse mode i totally agree! They always take this kind of questions as threats.
Shallow words definitely don’t count. Sounds like you’re actually clear about the pattern and not confused at all :-) See my previous video on emotionality vs emotion
@@CraigMalkin thank you. Im sorry if i don't expres what i want to say clearly. I need to enhace my English. I tried to say that covert narcissists often want that you offer some nice words to them as an answer when they complain about something. But just that, no more; if you try to go deeper, they get easily upset. I saw the video about ‘emotion vs emotionality' some time ago. It's a very good one, they often do that. 😬 Greetings from México. Very nice work!
I have framily who sometimes question my choices and I welcome it even when it’s uncomfortable but there’s certain people (who I suspect are high on the N spectrum) where it creates incredible ick. I think I still have some trouble determining what is healthy in me vs indicative of maladaptive/overly defensive behavior in myself.
When they do something so extreme, irrational that has a self preoccupation or jealousy it can be very obvious. You speak of their avoiding others. Yes, in my marriage I was expected to not have close friends. And yes he never shared anything personal with others. The anger and defensiveness were present. Yes.
What you didn’t mention is that the kind of micro managing you described with the girl and her partner would have had a completely different context had there been nobody looking on. They micro manage to feel special BUT the reason for that particular kind is that the don’t want you to do the thing and they know that’s not acceptable to restrict another person’s autonomy so they do that instead of coming right out with preventing you from doing it if there’s an audience or if they’re not in a position to get away with it. They don’t want you to do things yourself. They don’t trust you and they want anyone else getting the attention they deserve. They’d rather keep you in a sealed box for their own convenience than have you interacting where they can’t control what’s going on.
@CraigMalkin Thank you for your videos. I have found them very informative and helpful. One question: Given that, as you describe it, people with this condition behave as they do to avoid vulnerability and feel special - this implies that they are effectively unable or unwilling to 'face themselves' honestly. Do you have experience with clients who have radically chosen to confront these vulnerabilities? Can it lead to 'recovery' ?
Thank you, Doctor. Self-enhancement could mean, someone who plays the victim card? That is problematic for those of us who want to support someone without enabling.
Ah, yes. The over-the-top pushback when you express care and concern… You: Hey, you doing okay? You seem upset and you’ve been really quiet tonight. Them: I’m fine. You: Okay. Well, if there’s anything you wanna talk about, you know I’m here for you. Them: I SAID I’M FINE! But since you’re just gonna keep pushing me about it maybe I should leave! You: 😳
What I find puzzling is that you say something along the lines of "this is what the partner of my client was doing, when he was standing over her shoulder". I find it often confusing that people, I mean you are an expert in this field, are able to explain the motives and emotions of others that led to certain actions.
I can try. You first explain the motives behind certain narcissistic behaviour then you atribute that behaviour to her ex boyfriend along with the motives. The behaviour can be mistaken, taken out of context etc. It is very difficult to judge from a distance about the motives and interests of that person in question. Emotions, mindests, dispositions etc. may make certain behaviour likely, however it's a sense making process (basically a projection) to go from behaviour to disposition, emotion, mindset etc. Without further inquiry it's just not possible. "Vulnerability dodge" is happening. I'm not denying it. But no one needs to be EXPECTED to talk about their vulnerabilities on demand or behave in certain ways. So that way of reasoning: Person A seems to have acted in a way X, that means A has personality disorder 1. Thats intriguing but not very helpful. It makes people run around and atribute narcissistic personality behaviour everywhere. Behaviour seldom happens in isolation, but it's interpreted and co-constructed within the environments it's happening. I don't mean to say that a person B is responsible for any behaviour of person A. Nevertheless B is part of the situation. How about: What can I do when I observe person A to behave in a particular way?
When I watch video's like these they are great but its not realistic for me. If I'm a psychologist sure its an easy thing to be vulnerable and real with people. But if you have any other job and are at that job or a sporting event or church or grocery store or anywhere most people are screwed up and its an unspoken rule to pretend all is well and keep all things very shallow and people honestly wouldn't ask someone about how they are "really" doing unless you know them very well. And if you don't have the money for expensive therapy you are doomed to a life of misery pretty much, it is that bleak and desperate when talking about a persons mental health.
What if you score high on the extreme narcissim scale, but have healthy narcissism and healthy echoism according to your test? I'm wondering what that means in terms of if I am a true narcissist, simply have higher traits, or if it is related to and expressed due to childhood ptsd. I am an INFJ on the Meyers Briggs Scale and I have a Fearful Avoidant attachment style, if that helps.
It could easily reflect the fearful avoidant style but also might reflect *some* narcissistic traits. Did you take the long NSS in my book or the less formal 9 item on my site ?
My guess is that you are probably not a narc, because majority of them wouldn't even take the tests, instead, they'd just project it onto someone else.
Sooo I went outside and very kindly stated to family and friends that my feelings were hurt due to I didn't even get a birthday card from some for my birthday and a niece of mine became furious when I stated how I felt ..then it turned into a big problem because I shared my feelings...she's been non stop ridiculing me ever since ..I'm shocked and hurt nevertheless I told her I loved her and thanks for visiting and Left it at that ...she just keeps going on about it .. pretty sure she has NPD ..
Ugh. Definitely sounds consistent with it. I’m sorry-and good for you for staying your feelings clearly. That helps you stay grounded in your own needs and feelings in yourself and has benefits even if the listener rejects it (and even though that hurts)
I have a very narcissistic brother. Normally, he talks( lectures, pontificates, etc) and I listen. On one particular occasion, around the holidays, I decided to interrupt one of his nonstop monologues about himself by sharing something that had recently happened to ME that I thought was pretty cool. I had spent the holidays caroling with a choir that went around to nursing homes, juvenile detention centers, hospitals, and one of the places we’d gone to was the Veteran’s Administration hospital near UCLA. There, I told my brother, I met a patient, close to 100 years old, who’d been one of the soldiers who liberated Dachau. My brother’s response, after a beat of silence, was, “You know, Dachau wasn’t really an extermination camp.” The average person would have said, “Oh wow.” But he (in his own mind)got one-upped, felt less-than, and quickly needed to reestablish his superiority. It gets tiresome.
Fantastic example
Wow.
Oof, yikes. Reminds me of the time I went to lunch with my coworkers and watched an American Post Doc tell our Afghani grad student what Afghanistan was like. 😂 Like, dude grew up there, but do go on... 🤣
Why is that a perfect example? He simply behaves differently than expected. You actually expect him to praise you. So it comes across.
He doesn't and you feel bad about it. What he does though, he is stating a fact. Try to think why you really shared he story. I mean really why? What was your motive?
I can really relate to your story. Thank you for sharing, and best of luck to you!
The example was VERY helpful. I went head on and kindly asked that he not not inject his opinion, give advice unless I explicitly ask. The reaction was anger and defensiveness, told me it was about my history. I ended it.
When you think about it, it's really heartbreaking. It must be so painful to exist like this. Mind you, I've suffered quite a bit from narcissistic abuse, but it's hard not to feel compassion for someone who suffers so deeply themselves. I have just about given up on my relationship with my brother. My next step, and final attempt, is to call him out and demand he get help. I know this is ill-advised, but I can no longer cope. At this point, I'm not sure I even care if I lose him in my life. There don't seem to be any viable options for the loved ones of extreme narcissists. Every resource that I research, suggests that it is a lost cause. I've been trying to figure this "problem" out for such a long time; makes one feel quite helpless. If anyone has ever waged a successful "intervention", I'm all ears!
I have no idea what this psychologist will say regarding treatment. Dr. Malkin received his degree and education in the last century. That is said with respect, and I do respect him. The word that narcissist describes is psychopathy. It is a mental disability caused by the underdevelopment of the amygdala, (a paired structure near the hippocampus). This underdevelopment is what causes a person to be a psychopath, and those behaviors are on a spectrum. My sister acts like this, cuel, impulsive, without empathy. There are 20 characteristics. I was slow to see it but my wife caught on right away and because of her causing a un needed rift in the family we cut ties with her. Things happen in families and that is sad. The only thing you can do with a psychopath is to cut ties and end the relationship. That is the consensus of every case that I have read, and also advised. Every person with this disability will harm you in the end, and in extreme cases can be dangerous. Read books about psychopathy. "The Psychopath Whisperer" by Kent A Kiehl, PhD. "The Fear Factor", by Abigail Marsh PhD. (A good book, she studied the amygdala and is a woman's perspective of altruism, and evolution). I am reading every book I can. The word narcissist is not a scientific word. Good luck to you.
@@daultonruff2281 I appreciate your feedback and well wishes. Good luck to you too.
I discovered recently on thinking back to the beginning of my relationship, with what seems to be an ASPD (?), an extreme narc . We were 21 and i did grow up in abusive home, i was a very anxious person and also very self critical. My narc partner was so attractive to me because he had absolutely no anxiety about anything and was incredibly self appreciative. I was genuinely impressed by his ability to do absolutely ANYTHING without batting an eyelid, mostly only chuckling to himself how successful he always was, when i fretted and worried all the time. I wanted to be like him. Turned out these traits were also excellent for him to commit crimes, fraud, speeding constantly at >200kph, and doing it all with me in tow...... 😖🤯 not so impressive as time went on. 36 years later, still hate cars, struggling to survive etc. even after no contact for a decade. He did all the red flags upon first meeting - charm, fast car, mr helpful, expensive presents. Thats my take 😃 some of them are so easy to pick quickly, if only we knew that decades ago. Anyway, all that speaks to your theory of Vulnerability Dodge. Im fascinated that i found that attractive, because i felt so vulnerable myself.
Adding chapters to the videos are so helpful so that I can jump sections as reminders! The grad school example really resonated with me. My vulnerable narcissistic ex sowed seeds of doubt when I was taking prerequisites for nursing school. Happy to say I left that relationship and now entering first year in the Fall! What's more disturbing was that his mother tried to dissuade me when I mentioned I had a dream of continuing on after for grad school. I'm starting to believe she is the narcissistic parent. It would be great if you had a video on that relationship with narcissistic sons and narcissistic parents!
That’s on my list!
Thank you for this. Just realized someone I know is an extreme narcissist. Projects everything & puts on a facade of "confidence" that's clearly insecurity. Sad but sooo manipulative too. And I don't know that they'll ever be able to help themselves.
What about the genetic components? My husband is a covert narcissist but he did not do the parenting. He was too busy “working “ in a very high position in finance. Didn’t really care about my daughters and me. I was truly a very good mother. My older daughter was a very big problem very early on. I’m not a narcissist. I have been in intensive therapy and point blank asked 2 therapists. One specialized in narcissistic personality disorder. I am an extreme empath which has caused me a lot of pain. My daughter has had eating disorders from the age of 8. Was diagnosed as bipolar at 15. Conducted disorder at 15 when she threatened to kill me in my sleep when I came out of the bathroom and she was lying on my bed with a chilling smirk. Then malignant narcissist at about age 20. I did everything possible to help her. Alone. My husband said nothing was wrong with her and that I was crazy despite the havoc she caused to everyone close to her especially me. It didn’t bother him. She’s 43 and worse than ever. Abusing me, my husband now that we’re elderly and sick. Her husband. Worst of all her 4 young children. Others along the way. She’s a psychopath. She’s terrifying doing horrific things that no one would believe. There are others like her in the family. Nephew diagnosed with Antisocial Personality Disorder, also his mother-my sister is a sociopath. My father was an abusive narcissist. My father in law was bipolar. Mother in law a narcissist and schizophrenic. There has to be a genetic component here. Her childhood was very loving and supportive as far as I was concerned.
Yes, it's another good sign (one of so many) of the vulnerability of narcissistic people, but in my case it was the constant defensiveness, even about such small things as a difference of opinion, that had me walking on eggshells most of the time around my friend. I learned to keep quiet about my opinions and only express those that were in agreement. I couldn't be myself. At the time I knew nothing about narcissism, just regarded her as not an 'easy' person. Only as things between us got worse and she had an angry meltdown, did I suspect a personality disorder and started researching, did the pennies start to drop.
First time finding you! Your voice is really nice and soothing! I guess psyche doctors have that smooth alluring calming voice usually! 😁
I definitely have the opinion/personal experience that the signature move/telltale sign of someone with an NPD emotional core is the emotional projection component (of negative feelings). [+ coupled with strong emotional denial characteristic makes perfect sense as it is generally a prerequisite].
The projection can be quite subtle and underhand too, although definitely not always the case.
I emphasize that projection is the key component because a desire to not to discuss emotions relating to vulnerability coupled with a strong emotional self sufficiency drive can apply as well those who suffer from Avoidant Personality Disorder.
I have a friend who exhibits APD traits but is given an extremely hard time by other peers (accusations of being "cold", "mean" & "uncaring") even though they never gaslight, rage out, gossip, covet the limelight or throw around any negative accusations of others (in private or public).
False accusations of being selfish to such types can be quite harmful. Unsurprisingly my friend simply runs away from the crowd even more as a result, even though he is in an extremely tough personal situation and in a form of "survival mode" and in reality, could do with a bit more support.
It is great that NPD is being discussed much more now and taken more seriously. Having said that, I have noticed people throwing around the accusations of "being a narcissist" with way too much abandon and an extreme lack of analysis or understanding in certain circles (looking at tabloid journalists/social media especially).
I hope one day the right balance on the NPD discussion and the best methods to deal with it will be found.
I agree with most of this and I’ve discussed projection and denial at length in previous videos. At the same time projection is not unique to narcissism and pairing with self-sufficiency is not what makes it unique to narcissism-it’s the pairing of the vulnerability dodge with self-enhancement or the drive to feel special (which can be positive or negative)
@@CraigMalkin That makes sense, I am very far away from being any expert so I'm sure full blown scientific research is far more precise than merely my personal observations! I will bear all of this in mind in the future. Thank you for the reply!
Thank you. This is extremely helpful.
🌈❤️
I am grateful counselors are aware this may be a cause of sudden mental health symptoms and trauma. My abuser sabotaged everything I did as well.
And you think they are caring about you.
Giving you good suggestions
But instead they are
Manipulating you
So you don’t understand them until you find out over time that they are taking you down!
This is why it is so to trust anyone anymore !!!!!!!
this isa very helpful - thank you. I've got a friend who has been doing this recently I think - a couple of things have been really weird!
Very helpful, thanks 😊🍁
I'm a little confused. I think that covert narcissists often expres those feelings, but they don't want to go deeply and only are hunting shallow form of ‘nice words' to feel better. If you try to go deep down and make questions to understand better, they get angry. Maybe this can be some form of play the victim as well.
In the reverse mode i totally agree! They always take this kind of questions as threats.
Shallow words definitely don’t count. Sounds like you’re actually clear about the pattern and not confused at all :-) See my previous video on emotionality vs emotion
@@CraigMalkin thank you.
Im sorry if i don't expres what i want to say clearly. I need to enhace my English.
I tried to say that covert narcissists often want that you offer some nice words to them as an answer when they complain about something. But just that, no more; if you try to go deeper, they get easily upset.
I saw the video about ‘emotion vs emotionality' some time ago. It's a very good one, they often do that. 😬
Greetings from México. Very nice work!
I have framily who sometimes question my choices and I welcome it even when it’s uncomfortable but there’s certain people (who I suspect are high on the N spectrum) where it creates incredible ick.
I think I still have some trouble determining what is healthy in me vs indicative of maladaptive/overly defensive behavior in myself.
I know, you order a porterhouse and see if they reach over and cut the filet out and take it. Happen to me.
super helpful! Thanks!
Sibling narcissism destroys family. Attacks loving parent, controls the family. Division, discord...its alot to deal with.
2:00 self enhancement
Wow. So, so true.
When they do something so extreme, irrational that has a self preoccupation or jealousy it can be very obvious. You speak of their avoiding others. Yes, in my marriage I was expected to not have close friends. And yes he never shared anything personal with others. The anger and defensiveness were present. Yes.
What you didn’t mention is that the kind of micro managing you described with the girl and her partner would have had a completely different context had there been nobody looking on. They micro manage to feel special BUT the reason for that particular kind is that the don’t want you to do the thing and they know that’s not acceptable to restrict another person’s autonomy so they do that instead of coming right out with preventing you from doing it if there’s an audience or if they’re not in a position to get away with it. They don’t want you to do things yourself. They don’t trust you and they want anyone else getting the attention they deserve. They’d rather keep you in a sealed box for their own convenience than have you interacting where they can’t control what’s going on.
@CraigMalkin Thank you for your videos. I have found them very informative and helpful. One question: Given that, as you describe it, people with this condition behave as they do to avoid vulnerability and feel special - this implies that they are effectively unable or unwilling to 'face themselves' honestly. Do you have experience with clients who have radically chosen to confront these vulnerabilities? Can it lead to 'recovery' ?
Thank you, Doctor. Self-enhancement could mean, someone who plays the victim card? That is problematic for those of us who want to support someone without enabling.
Correct!
Ah, yes. The over-the-top pushback when you express care and concern…
You: Hey, you doing okay? You seem upset and you’ve been really quiet tonight.
Them: I’m fine.
You: Okay. Well, if there’s anything you wanna talk about, you know I’m here for you.
Them: I SAID I’M FINE! But since you’re just gonna keep pushing me about it maybe I should leave!
You: 😳
What I find puzzling is that you say something along the lines of "this is what the partner of my client was doing, when he was standing over her shoulder". I find it often confusing that people, I mean you are an expert in this field, are able to explain the motives and emotions of others that led to certain actions.
Can you clarify?
I can try. You first explain the motives behind certain narcissistic behaviour then you atribute that behaviour to her ex boyfriend along with the motives. The behaviour can be mistaken, taken out of context etc. It is very difficult to judge from a distance about the motives and interests of that person in question.
Emotions, mindests, dispositions etc. may make certain behaviour likely, however it's a sense making process (basically a projection) to go from behaviour to disposition, emotion, mindset etc. Without further inquiry it's just not possible.
"Vulnerability dodge" is happening. I'm not denying it. But no one needs to be EXPECTED to talk about their vulnerabilities on demand or behave in certain ways.
So that way of reasoning: Person A seems to have acted in a way X, that means A has personality disorder 1. Thats intriguing but not very helpful.
It makes people run around and atribute narcissistic personality behaviour everywhere. Behaviour seldom happens in isolation, but it's interpreted and co-constructed within the environments it's happening. I don't mean to say that a person B is responsible for any behaviour of person A. Nevertheless B is part of the situation.
How about: What can I do when I observe person A to behave in a particular way?
When I watch video's like these they are great but its not realistic for me. If I'm a psychologist sure its an easy thing to be vulnerable and real with people. But if you have any other job and are at that job or a sporting event or church or grocery store or anywhere most people are screwed up and its an unspoken rule to pretend all is well and keep all things very shallow and people honestly wouldn't ask someone about how they are "really" doing unless you know them very well. And if you don't have the money for expensive therapy you are doomed to a life of misery pretty much, it is that bleak and desperate when talking about a persons mental health.
That is major mental gymnastics and it’s automatic.
liked man it's been a while
There’s other new ones-been doing weekly since April or so :-)
What if you score high on the extreme narcissim scale, but have healthy narcissism and healthy echoism according to your test? I'm wondering what that means in terms of if I am a true narcissist, simply have higher traits, or if it is related to and expressed due to childhood ptsd. I am an INFJ on the Meyers Briggs Scale and I have a Fearful Avoidant attachment style, if that helps.
It could easily reflect the fearful avoidant style but also might reflect *some* narcissistic traits. Did you take the long NSS in my book or the less formal 9 item on my site ?
@@CraigMalkin Less formal 9 items test.
My guess is that you are probably not a narc, because majority of them wouldn't even take the tests, instead, they'd just project it onto someone else.
Sooo I went outside and very kindly stated to family and friends that my feelings were hurt due to I didn't even get a birthday card from some for my birthday and a niece of mine became furious when I stated how I felt ..then it turned into a big problem because I shared my feelings...she's been non stop ridiculing me ever since ..I'm shocked and hurt nevertheless I told her I loved her and thanks for visiting and Left it at that ...she just keeps going on about it .. pretty sure she has NPD ..
Ugh. Definitely sounds consistent with it. I’m sorry-and good for you for staying your feelings clearly. That helps you stay grounded in your own needs and feelings in yourself and has benefits even if the listener rejects it (and even though that hurts)