NEW MERCH: big-rock-moto.myspreadshop.com/ Order your parts and riding gear using this link to support Big Rock Moto. Please bookmark it! While there is zero cost to you and nothing will be visible on your end, my channel receives a small commission from each sale which I invest back into content creation. www.rockymountainatvmc.com/?ref=1053&BigRockMoto&
A hard top case, slung all the way out the back, can put a LOT of stress on the rack. This is especially true if you go off roading. I had a DR650 with a hard top case, and eventually the whole rear subframe gave up the ghost.
@@davidcolin6519 I like your point. On the other hand I’ve seen ppl welding a reinforcement bar from the plate to the panniers frame. Do you think this would be enough to not worry about what you mentioned anymore ? Thank you
@@Lowdown13blues I did try that solution, but the welding needs to be good and you still can't carry much, especially if the weight in the box isn't fixed, because you end up with problems related to momentum. For off roading at even medium speeds, I'd always avoid any kind of top box. Much better to use soft luggage.
@@davidcolin6519 it makes lots of sense. I was learning last night about this 80L Mosko reckless syst or try to maximize side panniers for off road. Thank you !
@@Lowdown13blues Glad to be of help. If I don't share my experiences with others, it only serves me. If I share it with you and others, each share helps multiple others. Being a scientist, I should have figured out the forces. The fact is that a top box is a heavy weight on a long lever with the fulcrum still a long way from the centre of mass. That is a LOT of force. Even the cushioning of soft luggage has a very great reduction on ALL those forces.
One way to go is a combo. I use a large, 58 l Givi top-box with a lock for valuable stuff like the tent. Also use it for quick access stuff like rain gear. For the sides I use Kriega OS22+OS32. Takes the best of both options. Overall width only 74 cm (29 inches) 😊
Well said. I just got my kriega rack-less OS-36 (x2 18 liter bags) + 46 liter givi trekker top case (hard/securable). I think I like the set-up, flexibility, low in weight, and now just need to assess capacity for a 2-3 night trip (not camping).
I have been a gs rider for almost 30 years. I have always had both and used them in different combinations. I live in the city and like to camp out throughout the New England riding season.
Great review. You give us a lot to think about for selecting luggage! One suggestion for the community: if you park your bike in bear country, either take your hard panniers and top box with you into your tent or cabin, or leave them on your bike OPEN (and without attractive scent). To bears, the hard luggage looks like coolers or food containers. If you leave them OPEN, you're OK. The bears will just snoop around, look in the bags and go to the next bike or car. Otherwise, they'll open the bags - quick and easy for a bear. Don't ask me how I know this!
07 KLR - Ended up with tusk lg hard & racks, partially due to soft being out of stock at the time. They worked very well, though a few times off road leg came back and got my attention. I will say recently watched some BDR documentaries and noticed half or better of the riders had hard panniers. Also had a tusk dry bag on the luggage rack and definitely not as convenient for access. Ian lots of good things to consider. 71 now so gnarly stuff is mostly behind me 😎 thanks
Excellent discussion. Both systems have been used. For a real long trip, mainly highway, soft allows much more "stuffing" to accommodate the need for more stuff. Thanks again for the comparisons.
I needed this video right now! I think a hard top case, possibly a tool box style with the door opening down to become a “table” and soft for the sides.
The right answer is always going to be, have both. Having said that I took a tumble at 120 kph thanks to wild warthogs across the road. End result is that the hardboxes saved my bike & legs without breaking the bottle of port inside. Yes the box had to be strapped on till the evening where we could align the brackets with a 'big rock' hehe, no pun intended. After 43 days travelling in Africa, I retired the box for a new one.
Great discussion here. Personally I like a hard case on top and use a dolomite 30L top box and Givi soft bags if necessary. A combination works for me in NYC and when traveling outside the city. So many more options than were available 2 decades ago. 👍🏾
I have a 55L waterproof roll top pack that I strap to the pillion and rack on my baby GS. Hard to beat the weight or cost. I pack light so the weight up higher hasn't been a problem and I like not having air brakes deployed on the sides. For security, I take the pack with me. PS - You shouldn't be riding between those lanes of cars. 😀 PPS - That's a gorgeous 40th anniversay GS.
I agree ☝️ with your assessment of Hard verses soft luggage for the reasons you pointed out . I know you didn’t talk about top boxes but I use a top box ( OEM , aftermarket or even a pelican case - as long as they are hard and lockable) I use this with soft luggage as my valuables can be secured in the top when away from bike , also if the top box is that little bit wider than the seat for example it will also protect the rear of the bike in a light off road or on road drop or off . Eg as in indicators , seat , pipes panels etc . The perfect 👍 combo in my humble opinion “ hard back box with soft panniers “. Also when not touring and just running around town you still have the security of the back box . Regards- Paul from Australia love your channel.
It's a hard case....It's a chair...I love it! My GS (used) came with an early Touratech hard bag set and I have to say they spend most of their time in the garage. For local riding just not needed. An interesting side discussion would be top cases-yes or no. Before I was married long trips on my FJR were done only the hard bags. Now it's amazing how much stuff ends up in the top case for a 3 hour ride...
@@BigRockMoto I have to have a top case, as the wife likes the security to not fall off...lol. Also the GIVI 58l works great for storing two helmets when we get to where we are going, but it's not large enough for two jackets and two helmets. . I'm looking for side bags to store our jackets when we get there. I don't want the bulk of the big box on the side, but in the city I want the security. What to do? Will anyone really steal a jacket? I would love to have smaller soft luggage, but it sounds like it isn't secure. I guess they will steal anything, right? Thanks for the videos!
Adventure motorcycling has become a premium experience because you can do soft luggage really cheaply with a single rear rack, a couple $40 amazon backpacks, and a ratchet strap or two. It's annoying to take off but can save you a thousand dollars. I once had to make a 100km forest service road only round trip for beer and gas. I managed to get a 20L cooler and 25L of fuel back on it with only a rear rack and a backpack, and the cooler of course.
love ur channel very informative, i got GS1250 with both hard (GDADV) n soft bag (westwing hussar 26/28L) , in kuala Lumpur with heavy horrible traffic conditions i need to ride through both vehicle lane almost 70% of every day traveling d westwing softbag really give me hassle free on passing through d path, another factor is less weight definitely. happy n satisfied with softbag on it.
I use saddle bags because they are cheaper than pannier boxes. I have a Kawasaki KLR650 and its high-mount muffler melts through the RHS saddle bag very quickly. Long story short, I bought and installed a pannier rack set for the saddle bags and now the fried RHS bag is no longer an issue. The good thing is that with each bag strapped to the pannier racks the load in the bags is much more stable. Another thing I like about my saddle bags is that they have 2 "D" rings on the vertical centre line on the outside of each bag, one near the bottom and the other about half way up. When the bags are empty, I use heavy duty short bungee straps hooked to the bottom "D" ring to keep them nice and close to the pannier racks for filtering and when loaded It is hooked into the middle "D" ring for extra load support when full. The other end goes up and over the top of the saddle bags, around the back of the pannier rack and is hooked into the bottom of each rack. Each side has its own bungee so I don't really have to worry so much about unbalanced bag load weights for short trips. In the past I have used pannier boxes but while they are waterproof when first bought, after a while they leak. As do waterproof saddle bags. I don't trust anything not to leak. I pack my stuff in heavy duty plastic bags or waterproof stuff sacks when I can find them.
I ride a VFR1200X and have both hard and soft. I just switched to hard top case for my commute to work for the storage and convenience. I only use the side cases for overnight trips.
I only take long trips on road so I prefer hard cases as on my K1200LT. My only case on my KLR650 is a hard top case. If I were to install side bags on the KLR, I would lean towards soft bags for all of the reasons you state unless I was sure I would be staying on the road. However, if I were planning to stay on the road, I would take the LT.
I found that hard bags tend to catch wind and unsettle the bike at highway speeds more than my reckless 80 does. Also I can collapse my soft luggage when its empty, but still have use for them if I need them. I have also found hard luggage isn't as waterproof after a few down's on them and never seal as well after banging them back into shape.
I've always leaned towards hard panniers. My current ride is a BMW f800 ST. I am however, about to step into a Triumph Tiger 1200 Gt Pro. The trip i'm planning, will see me travel over 2000ks, mainly on bitumen, with a sprinkling of graded dirt roads { i hope }, travelling through lots of country towns, before skirting the cities on my way home.
This was a thoughtful and informative video so thanks for that. I'm coming back to Motorcycling after a break, I use a hard top-box day to day, it's not attractive but you can still filter / lane split and it's secure and weatherproof. For touring I tend to stay mainly on road so slimline hard luggage for me for security and (living in the UK) weatherproofing. Horses for courses though, I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here I can see the advantages of soft luggage.
I use rolltop dry bags strapped to the rear of the bike. After two cross the USA rides, camping every night, these give me the most flexibility. I've even abandoned the hard bags and use their racks to tie down longer items, like a cot, tent, and camp chair.
Good Video I use GIVI Trekker 33/64 hard bags, great because you can load from the top or side, also come on and off with a twist of a key and push of a button. The top box I can use on the DR650 as well as on the KTM 390 which I use all three on. They are also very tough, had a 50 lb steel weight drop on one from 4 ft and only left a small mark, Using the 33 liter on the sides keeps the width down some, and feel good about having to squeeze through tight spots with them, I have them in black so they match all the bikes I have had them on. There is also that in the rain all you have to do is wipe them off no need to have to let them dry out. I do off road some on the KTM with them on but never hag a problem, but mostly will take the DR650 if the going is going to be very gnarly. and only use the top box (46 liter ) on it. Will also be using a top box on the CRF 300 L and going with hard so I can attach extra gas to the out side of the top box. Would not want to do that with a soft bag, as if you every had gas spill on the bag would have a hard time getting rid of the smell, The only time I would use soft bags if I were to do some hard core off road. May be if I get the KTM 690 Enduro but that is at least a year away.
Hi, I am riding in Turkey and had Hard Luggage on my GSA and also now on my Adventure Sports 2018. Last Year I trapped my leg between the left bag and the Bike. Nearly broke it there. Soo that brought me to the Tema "Soft Bags" and I will order the bags from LoneRider. The are looking really good. By the way, I really like your channel very professional and informativ. Keep on the good work !
I made my own custom soft luggage by adapting a pair of touratech endurance bags to a set of sw motech pro carries, using their small sys bag plates. Reason was, weight saving and the fact that touratech's bags are true dry bags, not the whole inner outer thing. Less resistant ? probably but lighter also :)
Another advantage of hard cases is you can strap items, like a tent and sleeping bag, to the tops of the cases. Modern soft cases often have small storage pouches that can be attached to the front and back of the bag. It may also be possible to strap items to the tops of the bags, but that typically blocks access to the bags.
Right now have the BMW hard bags on my 21 GSA that I bought new with it. As I have been doing more research I am going to invest in the soft bags for when I do off road trips. This way I will have both sets for the trip that I need, just as you said. Hopefully I can have the best of both worlds. That is the plan anyway
I’ve had no problem splitting lanes on 101 & I-5 through LA with the BMW Vario panniers fully extended. I don’t camp so I leave the bags behind when riding off road.
I just received my ATAS, I wanted soft luggage but everything is backorder now. So I decided to go with the Honda hard luggage and don't regret, the fit is perfect and they use the ignition key to unlock. Very happy with them.
My choice is the Mosko Moto Reckless system. No need for heavy / wide racks and I can change the bags from bike to bike easily. It keeps the weight for centralized/ no more wide rear end. If I want to remove the contents at night ( e.g. at a motel) it is easy to slip the internal bag out of the holster. Damage to the bags is easily fixed by a car upholstery repair person with a sewing machine. The soft bags are a sacrificial too in a crash, protecting the frame from force transferred to the mounting points of the pannier racks ( Tiger 800 before the current models)
nice comparison, funny enough last 1-2 months was going left to right on luggage preferences , was 100% set on Mosko reckless nobody has any clue (even company) when they have luggage in stock. Recently bought a tent from LoneRider and started looking around for different brand, many hours of thinking and calculating I pulled the trigger on LoneRider "semi hard" luggage , I think I did best decision and will have some advantages of both world..... great customer service, was going back and forth and I got the luggage in discount price almost equal of Mosko panniers with lot of extra features ..... thank you and keep up good work, cheers V!
One thing I wish you would have mentioned is aerodynamics. I have noticed some hard boxes grab a lot more air and can affect the handling more than soft bags. Would like to hear your opinions on that as you get to sample so many different bikes and gear set ups.
I’ve traveled around the United States at speeds often above 100mph with tour tech hard bags and had never noticed the effects on handling. Actually I like going around curves when my bags are loaded because it feels like it plants the rear end more solidly to the ground.
Hard cases can be harder to pack as the size and amount of space is fixed. Soft cases you can sometimes smash more gear in depending on what your packing and how fragile it is.
I’m looking for something for city/commuting use. I like the apparent security advantage of hard, as well as protection for a camera, but I do like the lighter weight and ability to compress soft bags when not full. Tough choice.
For now I'm happy with the hard bags that came with my GSA. I'd love to do more off-road oriented trips at some point (Iceland comes to mind), for which I'll get myself a set of soft bags. As others already stated: the perfect situation is having access to both, and switch whenever necessary :-)
I use giant loop RTW with locking quick mounts & use mosko moto cable straps for security. If someone wants to ruin $1200 bags for some old clothes, well.....you know, they are idiots! I use a hard top box to lock my helmet up at restaurant stops.Your videos are top notch.
Great presentation of a very divisive subject. Both systems have their advantages. Like the way you present the advantages of both systems and reference to some brands. The video helped me to decide which system is good for me.
Thanks for that I want a new bike soon i’m deciding between the African twin and the 1250 GSA Plan on doing 95% highway driving around the country this fall
I own sets of both. A hard top-box is usually on my bike for commuting and day trips. For longer trips I use a Giant Loop. My hard panniers get zero use and I should probably sell them. If you have nothing and are trying to choose between one or the other, I say just go with soft. They're lighter, more versatile, cheaper, and safer for you in a crash. They're also more durable, really, as they aren't subject to getting bent out of shape. My dad insists on hard boxes for security, and I've debated him on that. First, let's just acknowledge they aren't particularly difficult to pick or pry open, so they're really only a barrier to the more opportunistic thieves (which isn't nothing, but still). You don't trust a steering lock alone to secure your bike, right? Neither should you rely on a crappy little wafer lock to secure your stuff. When we stop at a hotel for the night, I take my Giant Loop off and lug the whole thing up to the room. Dad has internal bags in his hard panniers and he carries those up, leaving the boxes on the bike. All well and good, except that a thief passing by *might* see his expensive looking boxes and decide to pry them open just to see if there's something worth stealing-same as they might smash a window just to check your trunk, which happens all the time. His boxes will be empty, of course, but likely damaged or even destroyed in the process. My Giant Loop will be upstairs. One solution, I suppose, would be to simply leave them unlocked when they're empty...but then you aren't using their security (such as it is) anyway!
Great video with lots of good insights. I had to laugh at your dry humor about the the latte drinking gs1200 owners. Judy was a nice touch too (no pun intended...lol).
Currently weighing up this choice for my 2016 V-Strom 650! On the pre-2017 bikes the exhaust is high (unline the new one you have in this video) so the rack on the right hand side sticks really far out. I'm thinking I'll go for the Givi hard luggage rack for the sake of flexibility but probably get some Lomo dry bag panniers (UK company, their panniers are £50-80 so a very good price). If I were to get hard panniers it would probably be the E22s as they are pretty slim and load in from the top, so convenient around town and when working with limited space.
I travel on my Vstrom with both - a hard top box/case and soft panniers. I also often carry waterproof roll bag on the pillion seat and up front have a tank bag and crash bar bags. All soft, in case I drop the bike. You can include or exclude bags depending on what you're carrying or how long your trip is. Best of both worlds! Ps. I mainly keep valuables in my tank bag so can take this with me, if I'm away from my bike. 😎🏍👍
I would say that hard laguage might attract theft more - as it hints that you have something valuable to hide. No to mention that praying the hinge on them with a hard tools is piece of cake. The only advantage of hard bags is that in case of crash, there is a better protection for sensitive equipment. Plus they offer more volume.
Multiple bags for different types of trips is best option. I have Touratec zega pros for my GSA along with a set of nelson rigg soft rubber style bags and a set of Tusk soft cloth style with the water proof liners. I also use rubber style 35 liter roll bag for back seat when hard bags are off.
I commute and ride dirt with hard bc I'm in town and hike a lot away from the bike. I use soft for long off road trips like BDRs and camping. Then when I hike I am usually way out there and just chance it or toss it all in the tent.
Being new to the adv world I’ve found your videos highly informative. I did have the hard cases ordered for my Pan Am but after this and a few other videos I went with the soft bags. I do plan to use the Pan Am more off road than on.
I run a Giant Loop Coyote spooning a Mojavi. It leaves the KLR rack for anything I horde along the way or attach a fuel can to it. They will rub and wreck the finish on your bike. An old tshirt or cloth of some sort acts as a saddle blanket. Glad I figured out my setup 9 years ago..man stuff is pricey now. For me, it's a simple, light setup. I can pick everything up myself. Good break down👌
What do you recommend for a hard case top box for a Ktm 890? Also, can you have the soft bag panniers and a hard case top box on the same bike with a passenger?
I use 1st gen Tusk Pilots with racks on a 1st gen Vstrom 650... when on a trip I am not usually too far away from the bike so I don't worry about security too much and I just feel the soft panniers are a little more versatile
Not sure if you point this out or not in the vid, but soft luggage can conform to the things you put inside them which for me is their main selling point. 25l of hard space is only that if you fill it with water or air.
Dry-Spec makes excellent and affordable soft luggage which was just fine for camping 11 days on a BDR. IMO, the deflection ability of soft luggage far outweighs the casual theft deterrent of hard luggage. No racks for Dry-Spec needed and webbing can be “grown” to accommodate different bikes. Also, Made in the USA which is initially why I bought them…they’ve been great! Soft luggage all the way.
Tail box is an answer to the city and narrow lane splitting. Excellent for commuting, plenty of space and room to place a helmet. On long trips you simply add the side boxes. By the way....I hate zippers.
I always used to just ride with a medium size backpack, and the rest on the pillion seat or rear rack. in the old days we have no heated hand grips, swanky windscreen, GPS, headset and visors, and Smartphone. we just had open face helmut with goggles, paper maps, plastic leggings, or army coat, and workboots.., and you gritted it out,,,sometimes we would wear a wetsuit as in surfing, they keep you warm and dry
Good video - I have both for my GSA. Giant Loop RTW bags clip on and off easily (no plate) and a used set of the BMW hard bags. PS - I'm hoping you get a Harley Pan American to review!
It's been said here before. But here is my story. I was using hard luggage for many years on my GSA. But then one day I was riding an asphalt road I was stopped by a container somebody had put on the road and we had to pass by it. Next to the thing I misjudged the room available, slit down some and my foor got caught under the pannier which was no fun and it hurt for months. So I decided on soft luggage next and bought Lone-Riders. They have been all over the world in the meantime and are over 100K km on both our bikes (the wife has them too) Yes I fell with them, I was hit by a car (only the case) and they are still waterproof. As they have a steel enforce rim and can be padlocked, I think they are harder to open than the aluminium panniers. And yes it's a bit more of a hassle to open them... Keeping hard luggage waterproof I have noticed in the passed, is not easy. One get-off on a mountain and you're done...So for me the choice is solid: Soft!
I have an Africa twin. I got the waterproof soft luggage from sw motech. If I were to get hard luggage, for groceries/errands, do these makers use their same racks for both soft and hard luggage?
Currently use hard cases on my R1200GSA but have been thinking of adding the soft bags...the Bumot soft bags that fits the exist BMW racks seems like a good option.
I currently run Mosko Moto BC35s on my Africa Twin, for the off-road advantages. But am looking to purchase a set of hard luggage as well for the exact reasons you said, for mainly on road trips, for additional security and convenience for easy access. Very informative video comparing both!!
@@kee7678 no. I’m going to wait for Outback Motortek to get the hard panniers they’re working on into production! They make a great product. And it looks like they’re teaming up with mosko Moto too and utilizing their mounting system. Which will make it that much easier for me to swap from soft to hard bags.
@@owenlushadv ohh wow. I didn't' know that. I just spent time with the Mosko guys 2 wknds ago and loving their stuff. That's exactly what I'm going to do too. Perfect thanks
Perhaps your opinion on fitting a larger rear plate and attaching dry bags on top. I find this a cheaper option but I am concerned with the high centre of gravity that I am creating.
I have no experience about this but, i think if you want cheap, buy 100-200$, military backpack, 1000d cordura, mount on your bike, its not easy access, but really cheap and durable, it is when you use luggage system 1 or 2 times a day, isnt it good idea?
Hi. Are there racks that work for both hard and soft systems? In other words could you switch from soft to hard and vice versa using the same rack? Great videos. Thanks.
NEW MERCH: big-rock-moto.myspreadshop.com/
Order your parts and riding gear using this link to support Big Rock Moto. Please bookmark it! While there is zero cost to you and nothing will be visible on your end, my channel receives a small commission from each sale which I invest back into content creation. www.rockymountainatvmc.com/?ref=1053&BigRockMoto&
u rock i love ur channel
I find removable soft bags on the sides and a hard case top box is the best bet
A hard top case, slung all the way out the back, can put a LOT of stress on the rack. This is especially true if you go off roading. I had a DR650 with a hard top case, and eventually the whole rear subframe gave up the ghost.
@@davidcolin6519 I like your point. On the other hand I’ve seen ppl welding a reinforcement bar from the plate to the panniers frame.
Do you think this would be enough to not worry about what you mentioned anymore ?
Thank you
@@Lowdown13blues I did try that solution, but the welding needs to be good and you still can't carry much, especially if the weight in the box isn't fixed, because you end up with problems related to momentum.
For off roading at even medium speeds, I'd always avoid any kind of top box.
Much better to use soft luggage.
@@davidcolin6519 it makes lots of sense.
I was learning last night about this 80L Mosko reckless syst or try to maximize side panniers for off road.
Thank you !
@@Lowdown13blues Glad to be of help. If I don't share my experiences with others, it only serves me. If I share it with you and others, each share helps multiple others.
Being a scientist, I should have figured out the forces. The fact is that a top box is a heavy weight on a long lever with the fulcrum still a long way from the centre of mass. That is a LOT of force. Even the cushioning of soft luggage has a very great reduction on ALL those forces.
One way to go is a combo.
I use a large, 58 l Givi top-box with a lock for valuable stuff like the tent.
Also use it for quick access stuff like rain gear. For the sides I use Kriega OS22+OS32.
Takes the best of both options.
Overall width only 74 cm (29 inches) 😊
Sound good
Well said. I just got my kriega rack-less OS-36 (x2 18 liter bags) + 46 liter givi trekker top case (hard/securable). I think I like the set-up, flexibility, low in weight, and now just need to assess capacity for a 2-3 night trip (not camping).
I was wondering this myself. How has your top box held up with off-road in? I have the same one and don’t want to have to reinvest if I don’t have to.
@@MrTmax74 following
That was exactly what I was thinking.
I've realised I need both. Just pick what is best for each trip
yep
I was thinking the same thing
I agree with the gentleman who commented that it’s best to have both, depending on the mission.
I have been a gs rider for almost 30 years. I have always had both and used them in different combinations. I live in the city and like to camp out throughout the New England riding season.
I think you nailed it, Ian. Hard bags are great for touring on asphalt, soft bags for off-road or a combination of both.
Great review. You give us a lot to think about for selecting luggage! One suggestion for the community: if you park your bike in bear country, either take your hard panniers and top box with you into your tent or cabin, or leave them on your bike OPEN (and without attractive scent). To bears, the hard luggage looks like coolers or food containers. If you leave them OPEN, you're OK. The bears will just snoop around, look in the bags and go to the next bike or car. Otherwise, they'll open the bags - quick and easy for a bear. Don't ask me how I know this!
07 KLR - Ended up with tusk lg hard & racks, partially due to soft being out of stock at the time. They worked very well, though a few times off road leg came back and got my attention. I will say recently watched some BDR documentaries and noticed half or better of the riders had hard panniers. Also had a tusk dry bag on the luggage rack and definitely not as convenient for access. Ian lots of good things to consider. 71 now so gnarly stuff is mostly behind me 😎 thanks
Excellent discussion. Both systems have been used. For a real long trip, mainly highway, soft allows much more "stuffing" to accommodate the need for more stuff. Thanks again for the comparisons.
Your reviews are extremely thoughtful and thorough--I really appreciate your channel--thanks!
Ian, you are doing a great job with your videos! Very informative!
I needed this video right now! I think a hard top case, possibly a tool box style with the door opening down to become a “table” and soft for the sides.
The right answer is always going to be, have both. Having said that I took a tumble at 120 kph thanks to wild warthogs across the road. End result is that the hardboxes saved my bike & legs without breaking the bottle of port inside.
Yes the box had to be strapped on till the evening where we could align the brackets with a 'big rock' hehe, no pun intended.
After 43 days travelling in Africa, I retired the box for a new one.
Great video, thanks! Another advantage to soft bags is that they have the flexibility to overstuff large and irregularly shaped items.
Good point!
I have both on my 990 but use soft, I think I can get more in because of the expanding ability of soft. Great video Ian 👍🏻👍🏻
Great discussion here. Personally I like a hard case on top and use a dolomite 30L top box and Givi soft bags if necessary. A combination works for me in NYC and when traveling outside the city. So many more options than were available 2 decades ago. 👍🏾
I use a lockable top box for shorter trips combined with soft or semi-soft side bags if I go longer.
You nailed all the points. I am a softie, still have my hard bags but I prefer the soft ones in case I do go off road while on a trip.
I have a 55L waterproof roll top pack that I strap to the pillion and rack on my baby GS. Hard to beat the weight or cost. I pack light so the weight up higher hasn't been a problem and I like not having air brakes deployed on the sides. For security, I take the pack with me.
PS - You shouldn't be riding between those lanes of cars. 😀
PPS - That's a gorgeous 40th anniversay GS.
Thank you for the video. I disagree with hard luggage begin secure. Takes about 5 seconds to open with a screw driver.
very true. but maybe deters casual theft more than soft bags? if not, one less argument for hard bags
Good discussion. I use both. For filtering a tank bag and a top box is the best set up, if it hauls enough stuff.
I agree ☝️ with your assessment of Hard verses soft luggage for the reasons you pointed out . I know you didn’t talk about top boxes but I use a top box ( OEM , aftermarket or even a pelican case - as long as they are hard and lockable) I use this with soft luggage as my valuables can be secured in the top when away from bike , also if the top box is that little bit wider than the seat for example it will also protect the rear of the bike in a light off road or on road drop or off . Eg as in indicators , seat , pipes panels etc . The perfect 👍 combo in my humble opinion “ hard back box with soft panniers “. Also when not touring and just running around town you still have the security of the back box .
Regards- Paul from Australia love your channel.
It's a hard case....It's a chair...I love it! My GS (used) came with an early Touratech hard bag set and I have to say they spend most of their time in the garage. For local riding just not needed. An interesting side discussion would be top cases-yes or no. Before I was married long trips on my FJR were done only the hard bags. Now it's amazing how much stuff ends up in the top case for a 3 hour ride...
i like a tail bag, soft bag
@@BigRockMoto I have to have a top case, as the wife likes the security to not fall off...lol.
Also the GIVI 58l works great for storing two helmets when we get to where we are going, but it's not large enough for two jackets and two helmets. . I'm looking for side bags to store our jackets when we get there. I don't want the bulk of the big box on the side, but in the city I want the security. What to do? Will anyone really steal a jacket? I would love to have smaller soft luggage, but it sounds like it isn't secure. I guess they will steal anything, right?
Thanks for the videos!
Hard bags allow additional gear can be strapped on top and still allow bags to be opened.
Nelson Rigg makes really good and inexpensive soft waterproof side bags
yes they do
Nicely presented.Soft luggage is the way to go.Safer,don't generally crack/break when doing off road.Thanks.
Adventure motorcycling has become a premium experience because you can do soft luggage really cheaply with a single rear rack, a couple $40 amazon backpacks, and a ratchet strap or two. It's annoying to take off but can save you a thousand dollars. I once had to make a 100km forest service road only round trip for beer and gas. I managed to get a 20L cooler and 25L of fuel back on it with only a rear rack and a backpack, and the cooler of course.
love ur channel very informative, i got GS1250 with both hard (GDADV) n soft bag (westwing hussar 26/28L) , in kuala Lumpur with heavy horrible traffic conditions i need to ride through both vehicle lane almost 70% of every day traveling d westwing softbag really give me hassle free on passing through d path, another factor is less weight definitely. happy n satisfied with softbag on it.
I use saddle bags because they are cheaper than pannier boxes. I have a Kawasaki KLR650 and its high-mount muffler melts through the RHS saddle bag very quickly. Long story short, I bought and installed a pannier rack set for the saddle bags and now the fried RHS bag is no longer an issue. The good thing is that with each bag strapped to the pannier racks the load in the bags is much more stable. Another thing I like about my saddle bags is that they have 2 "D" rings on the vertical centre line on the outside of each bag, one near the bottom and the other about half way up. When the bags are empty, I use heavy duty short bungee straps hooked to the bottom "D" ring to keep them nice and close to the pannier racks for filtering and when loaded It is hooked into the middle "D" ring for extra load support when full. The other end goes up and over the top of the saddle bags, around the back of the pannier rack and is hooked into the bottom of each rack. Each side has its own bungee so I don't really have to worry so much about unbalanced bag load weights for short trips.
In the past I have used pannier boxes but while they are waterproof when first bought, after a while they leak. As do waterproof saddle bags. I don't trust anything not to leak. I pack my stuff in heavy duty plastic bags or waterproof stuff sacks when I can find them.
I ride a VFR1200X and have both hard and soft. I just switched to hard top case for my commute to work for the storage and convenience. I only use the side cases for overnight trips.
I don’t even own a motorcycle and I watch your videos just for the knowledge. Thank you!
Which do you prefer and why?
Right now I have soft luggage! Mainly because I already had some dry bags and did not need to buy dedicated motorcycle luggage.
Running hard bags (pelican cases on givi mounts/rack, and a lockable hard top case. I can carry 88 cans of beer with my luggage (empirically tested)
I only take long trips on road so I prefer hard cases as on my K1200LT. My only case on my KLR650 is a hard top case. If I were to install side bags on the KLR, I would lean towards soft bags for all of the reasons you state unless I was sure I would be staying on the road. However, if I were planning to stay on the road, I would take the LT.
@@jokermtb Impressive!!
I found that hard bags tend to catch wind and unsettle the bike at highway speeds more than my reckless 80 does. Also I can collapse my soft luggage when its empty, but still have use for them if I need them. I have also found hard luggage isn't as waterproof after a few down's on them and never seal as well after banging them back into shape.
Have both and use what’s appropriate for the ride… most soft luggage fits over hard luggage easily
I've always leaned towards hard panniers. My current ride is a BMW f800 ST. I am however, about to step into a Triumph Tiger 1200 Gt Pro. The trip i'm planning, will see me travel over 2000ks, mainly on bitumen, with a sprinkling of graded dirt roads { i hope }, travelling through lots of country towns, before skirting the cities on my way home.
This was a thoughtful and informative video so thanks for that. I'm coming back to Motorcycling after a break, I use a hard top-box day to day, it's not attractive but you can still filter / lane split and it's secure and weatherproof. For touring I tend to stay mainly on road so slimline hard luggage for me for security and (living in the UK) weatherproofing. Horses for courses though, I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here I can see the advantages of soft luggage.
Great comparo! This is the 1st time I've heard exactly how hard luggage can injure one's leg.
I use rolltop dry bags strapped to the rear of the bike. After two cross the USA rides, camping every night, these give me the most flexibility. I've even abandoned the hard bags and use their racks to tie down longer items, like a cot, tent, and camp chair.
Good Video I use GIVI Trekker 33/64 hard bags, great because you can load from the top or side, also come on and off with a twist of a key and push of a button. The top box I can use on the DR650 as well as on the KTM 390 which I use all three on. They are also very tough, had a 50 lb steel weight drop on one from 4 ft and only left a small mark, Using the 33 liter on the sides keeps the width down some, and feel good about having to squeeze through tight spots with them, I have them in black so they match all the bikes I have had them on. There is also that in the rain all you have to do is wipe them off no need to have to let them dry out. I do off road some on the KTM with them on but never hag a problem, but mostly will take the DR650 if the going is going to be very gnarly. and only use the top box (46 liter ) on it. Will also be using a top box on the CRF 300 L and going with hard so I can attach extra gas to the out side of the top box. Would not want to do that with a soft bag, as if you every had gas spill on the bag would have a hard time getting rid of the smell, The only time I would use soft bags if I were to do some hard core off road. May be if I get the KTM 690 Enduro but that is at least a year away.
Hi,
I am riding in Turkey and had Hard Luggage on my GSA and also now on my Adventure Sports 2018. Last Year I trapped my leg between the left bag and the Bike. Nearly broke it there.
Soo that brought me to the Tema "Soft Bags" and I will order the bags from LoneRider. The are looking really good. By the way, I really like your channel very professional and informativ.
Keep on the good work !
Hard cases all the time perhaps with a combo of some sort Nothing is safe these days be it in the country or town !!!!!!!!!!!!!
I made my own custom soft luggage by adapting a pair of touratech endurance bags to a set of sw motech pro carries, using their small sys bag plates. Reason was, weight saving and the fact that touratech's bags are true dry bags, not the whole inner outer thing. Less resistant ? probably but lighter also :)
Another advantage of hard cases is you can strap items, like a tent and sleeping bag, to the tops of the cases.
Modern soft cases often have small storage pouches that can be attached to the front and back of the bag. It may also be possible to strap items to the tops of the bags, but that typically blocks access to the bags.
Right now have the BMW hard bags on my 21 GSA that I bought new with it. As I have been doing more research I am going to invest in the soft bags for when I do off road trips. This way I will have both sets for the trip that I need, just as you said. Hopefully I can have the best of both worlds. That is the plan anyway
I’ve had no problem splitting lanes on 101 & I-5 through LA with the BMW Vario panniers fully extended. I don’t camp so I leave the bags behind when riding off road.
I just received my ATAS, I wanted soft luggage but everything is backorder now. So I decided to go with the Honda hard luggage and don't regret, the fit is perfect and they use the ignition key to unlock. Very happy with them.
great
My choice is the Mosko Moto Reckless system. No need for heavy / wide racks and I can change the bags from bike to bike easily.
It keeps the weight for centralized/ no more wide rear end. If I want to remove the contents at night ( e.g. at a motel) it is easy to slip the internal bag out of the holster. Damage to the bags is easily fixed by a car upholstery repair person with a sewing machine. The soft bags are a sacrificial too in a crash, protecting the frame from force transferred to the mounting points of the pannier racks ( Tiger 800 before the current models)
nice comparison, funny enough last 1-2 months was going left to right on luggage preferences , was 100% set on Mosko reckless nobody has any clue (even company) when they have luggage in stock. Recently bought a tent from LoneRider and started looking around for different brand, many hours of thinking and calculating I pulled the trigger on LoneRider "semi hard" luggage , I think I did best decision and will have some advantages of both world..... great customer service, was going back and forth and I got the luggage in discount price almost equal of Mosko panniers with lot of extra features ..... thank you and keep up good work, cheers V!
I just picked up a 17 Africas Twin and am doing research right now but I’m leaning towards soft.
Lone Rider Semi-ridged bags, best of both worlds.
One thing I wish you would have mentioned is aerodynamics. I have noticed some hard boxes grab a lot more air and can affect the handling more than soft bags. Would like to hear your opinions on that as you get to sample so many different bikes and gear set ups.
I’ve traveled around the United States at speeds often above 100mph with tour tech hard bags and had never noticed the effects on handling. Actually I like going around curves when my bags are loaded because it feels like it plants the rear end more solidly to the ground.
Informative and concise. I appreciated the list of 5 questions to help comparison. I like the hard luggage as I mostly do Street travel.
Hard cases can be harder to pack as the size and amount of space is fixed. Soft cases you can sometimes smash more gear in depending on what your packing and how fragile it is.
I’m looking for something for city/commuting use. I like the apparent security advantage of hard, as well as protection for a camera, but I do like the lighter weight and ability to compress soft bags when not full. Tough choice.
For now I'm happy with the hard bags that came with my GSA. I'd love to do more off-road oriented trips at some point (Iceland comes to mind), for which I'll get myself a set of soft bags.
As others already stated: the perfect situation is having access to both, and switch whenever necessary :-)
I use giant loop RTW with locking quick mounts & use mosko moto cable straps for security. If someone wants to ruin $1200 bags for some old clothes, well.....you know, they are idiots! I use a hard top box to lock my helmet up at restaurant stops.Your videos are top notch.
Great video, keep up the dry humor. I’m soft luggage user.✊️👊✊️👊
Judy is priceless......you MUST protect her at all costs!!!!! LOL
Great presentation of a very divisive subject. Both systems have their advantages. Like the way you present the advantages of both systems and reference to some brands. The video helped me to decide which system is good for me.
awesome, thanks
Thanks for that I want a new bike soon i’m deciding between the African twin and the 1250 GSA Plan on doing 95% highway driving around the country this fall
I own sets of both. A hard top-box is usually on my bike for commuting and day trips. For longer trips I use a Giant Loop. My hard panniers get zero use and I should probably sell them. If you have nothing and are trying to choose between one or the other, I say just go with soft. They're lighter, more versatile, cheaper, and safer for you in a crash. They're also more durable, really, as they aren't subject to getting bent out of shape. My dad insists on hard boxes for security, and I've debated him on that. First, let's just acknowledge they aren't particularly difficult to pick or pry open, so they're really only a barrier to the more opportunistic thieves (which isn't nothing, but still). You don't trust a steering lock alone to secure your bike, right? Neither should you rely on a crappy little wafer lock to secure your stuff.
When we stop at a hotel for the night, I take my Giant Loop off and lug the whole thing up to the room. Dad has internal bags in his hard panniers and he carries those up, leaving the boxes on the bike. All well and good, except that a thief passing by *might* see his expensive looking boxes and decide to pry them open just to see if there's something worth stealing-same as they might smash a window just to check your trunk, which happens all the time. His boxes will be empty, of course, but likely damaged or even destroyed in the process. My Giant Loop will be upstairs. One solution, I suppose, would be to simply leave them unlocked when they're empty...but then you aren't using their security (such as it is) anyway!
Great video with lots of good insights. I had to laugh at your dry humor about the the latte drinking gs1200 owners. Judy was a nice touch too (no pun intended...lol).
nice one...
Currently weighing up this choice for my 2016 V-Strom 650! On the pre-2017 bikes the exhaust is high (unline the new one you have in this video) so the rack on the right hand side sticks really far out. I'm thinking I'll go for the Givi hard luggage rack for the sake of flexibility but probably get some Lomo dry bag panniers (UK company, their panniers are £50-80 so a very good price). If I were to get hard panniers it would probably be the E22s as they are pretty slim and load in from the top, so convenient around town and when working with limited space.
I travel on my Vstrom with both - a hard top box/case and soft panniers. I also often carry waterproof roll bag on the pillion seat and up front have a tank bag and crash bar bags. All soft, in case I drop the bike. You can include or exclude bags depending on what you're carrying or how long your trip is. Best of both worlds! Ps. I mainly keep valuables in my tank bag so can take this with me, if I'm away from my bike. 😎🏍👍
I would say that hard laguage might attract theft more - as it hints that you have something valuable to hide. No to mention that praying the hinge on them with a hard tools is piece of cake. The only advantage of hard bags is that in case of crash, there is a better protection for sensitive equipment. Plus they offer more volume.
Multiple bags for different types of trips is best option. I have Touratec zega pros for my GSA along with a set of nelson rigg soft rubber style bags and a set of Tusk soft cloth style with the water proof liners. I also use rubber style 35 liter roll bag for back seat when hard bags are off.
The hard case might be able to serve as a center stand for tire changes if the bike only has a side kickstand
I've missed the funny edits and pop in pictures. Good video:)
I commute and ride dirt with hard bc I'm in town and hike a lot away from the bike. I use soft for long off road trips like BDRs and camping. Then when I hike I am usually way out there and just chance it or toss it all in the tent.
Being new to the adv world I’ve found your videos highly informative. I did have the hard cases ordered for my Pan Am but after this and a few other videos I went with the soft bags. I do plan to use the Pan Am more off road than on.
I run a Giant Loop Coyote spooning a Mojavi. It leaves the KLR rack for anything I horde along the way or attach a fuel can to it. They will rub and wreck the finish on your bike. An old tshirt or cloth of some sort acts as a saddle blanket. Glad I figured out my setup 9 years ago..man stuff is pricey now.
For me, it's a simple, light setup. I can pick everything up myself.
Good break down👌
thanks, nice setup
Some tank grips under bags would cure rubbing.
What do you recommend for a hard case top box for a Ktm 890? Also, can you have the soft bag panniers and a hard case top box on the same bike with a passenger?
I use 1st gen Tusk Pilots with racks on a 1st gen Vstrom 650... when on a trip I am not usually too far away from the bike so I don't worry about security too much and I just feel the soft panniers are a little more versatile
00:57 Hysterical! :)
Not sure if you point this out or not in the vid, but soft luggage can conform to the things you put inside them which for me is their main selling point. 25l of hard space is only that if you fill it with water or air.
For soft bags, what are the advantages of the different types of material?
Dry-Spec makes excellent and affordable soft luggage which was just fine for camping 11 days on a BDR. IMO, the deflection ability of soft luggage far outweighs the casual theft deterrent of hard luggage. No racks for Dry-Spec needed and webbing can be “grown” to accommodate different bikes. Also, Made in the USA which is initially why I bought them…they’ve been great! Soft luggage all the way.
Tail box is an answer to the city and narrow lane splitting. Excellent for commuting, plenty of space and room to place a helmet. On long trips you simply add the side boxes. By the way....I hate zippers.
I always used to just ride with a medium size backpack, and the rest on the pillion seat or rear rack. in the old days we have no heated hand grips, swanky windscreen, GPS, headset and visors, and Smartphone. we just had open face helmut with goggles, paper maps, plastic leggings, or army coat, and workboots.., and you gritted it out,,,sometimes we would wear a wetsuit as in surfing, they keep you warm and dry
Judy about made me spit my coffee. :)
Is there any significant difference in terms of how much space/weight you can put in them?
Good video - I have both for my GSA. Giant Loop RTW bags clip on and off easily (no plate) and a used set of the BMW hard bags.
PS - I'm hoping you get a Harley Pan American to review!
getting one in a couple weeks!
@@BigRockMoto Awesome - can't wait to see your review!
It's been said here before. But here is my story. I was using hard luggage for many years on my GSA. But then one day I was riding an asphalt road I was stopped by a container somebody had put on the road and we had to pass by it. Next to the thing I misjudged the room available, slit down some and my foor got caught under the pannier which was no fun and it hurt for months. So I decided on soft luggage next and bought Lone-Riders. They have been all over the world in the meantime and are over 100K km on both our bikes (the wife has them too) Yes I fell with them, I was hit by a car (only the case) and they are still waterproof. As they have a steel enforce rim and can be padlocked, I think they are harder to open than the aluminium panniers. And yes it's a bit more of a hassle to open them... Keeping hard luggage waterproof I have noticed in the passed, is not easy. One get-off on a mountain and you're done...So for me the choice is solid: Soft!
Great video with lots of info, thank you
I have an Africa twin. I got the waterproof soft luggage from sw motech. If I were to get hard luggage, for groceries/errands, do these makers use their same racks for both soft and hard luggage?
Another very informative video Ian.
Glad you think so!
Currently use hard cases on my R1200GSA but have been thinking of adding the soft bags...the Bumot soft bags that fits the exist BMW racks seems like a good option.
i like them a lot
Great rundown.
I currently run Mosko Moto BC35s on my Africa Twin, for the off-road advantages. But am looking to purchase a set of hard luggage as well for the exact reasons you said, for mainly on road trips, for additional security and convenience for easy access. Very informative video comparing both!!
thanks
Did you get any hard bags yet?
@@kee7678 no. I’m going to wait for Outback Motortek to get the hard panniers they’re working on into production! They make a great product. And it looks like they’re teaming up with mosko Moto too and utilizing their mounting system. Which will make it that much easier for me to swap from soft to hard bags.
@@owenlushadv ohh wow. I didn't' know that. I just spent time with the Mosko guys 2 wknds ago and loving their stuff. That's exactly what I'm going to do too. Perfect thanks
@@kee7678 yeah you can check out outback’s social media and see some photos of what they’ve been working on!
what do you think about the vario panniers?
Perhaps your opinion on fitting a larger rear plate and attaching dry bags on top. I find this a cheaper option but I am concerned with the high centre of gravity that I am creating.
if it is just stuff for a day ride, that is my preferred setup. just don't carry more than 15 lbs or so
I have no experience about this but, i think
if you want cheap, buy 100-200$, military backpack, 1000d cordura, mount on your bike, its not easy access, but really cheap and durable,
it is when you use luggage system 1 or 2 times a day,
isnt it good idea?
Can you use the same mounts for the hard and soft bags? Or are the mounts completely different and not interchangeable?
With Bumot, you can
Hi. Are there racks that work for both hard and soft systems? In other words could you switch from soft to hard and vice versa using the same rack? Great videos. Thanks.
Bumot offers both soft and hard luggage with the same mounting system.
Great job on the video, good info. cheers Paul
Are racks really that heavy I want to get the oem rack for the T7 for protection and to mount soft or hard bags
For me the best way its soft panniers with hard top case.
By the way, question about hard luggage:
Metal or plastic?
Metal all the way. If it’s damaged, you’re more than likely going to be able to get the dents out.
Plastic….well…you get it
I prefer soft luggage. I have a small dual sport so it's more useful in my opinion.
What kind of softbags are these?
Since it's been a year since this video, have there been improvements in security for soft lugfage?