Ukraine crisis: What it means for Asia | ST Roundtable | The Straits Times
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- Опубліковано 6 лип 2024
- Shockwaves are rippling across the globe as Ukraine comes under a military assault from Russia. What are the implications for Asia? Watch the ST Roundtable live discussion on Tuesday, March 1 at 11am with panellists:
• Prof Kishore Mahbubani, veteran diplomat and distinguished fellow at the Asia Research Institute at the National University of Singapore
• Jonathan Eyal, global affairs correspondent, The Straits Times
• Ravi Velloor, associate editor, The Straits Times
The roundtable is moderated by ST foreign editor Bhagyashree Garekar.
Follow ST’s live coverage of the Ukraine crisis: str.sg/ukraine-live
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Follow ST’s live coverage of the Ukraine crisis: str.sg/ukraine-live
Why should Ukraine join NATO? It is part of a US plan to encircle Ukraine to oversee East Europe and part of China. It is unnecessary for Ukraine to join. NATO.
US wants globalization that's bad
Nice to see finally in paper which side Singapore has chosen.
Jonathan praised the UN for calling for a GA vote when the Securit Council was blocked. Kishore pointed out that UN should have done it consistently. When US invaded Iraq, UN didn't. Western double standard is truly a modern day MIRACLE. Even great intellectuals practise it without the slightest sense of shame. Vivian condemned the Russian invasion as totally unacceptable as was the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. But he refused to even mention the US invasion of Iraq let alone condemn it.
Agree. Kishore is the only truthful consistent person. The other two totally bias US mouthpieces.
As a Singaporean, I m not in support of Vivian’s statements. Simply Ukraine should understand n know the impact of Ukraine NATO credibility. Just as Singapore would/should not invite Israelis President/Ministers for trade/ceremonial national interests events.
"After derailing the Russia-Europe energy relationship, Biden is witnessing that the prices for gas are skyrocketing in Europe, and Washington has no solutions to the grave situation that is developing. The spot market price for gas has zoomed to 8 times the price at which Russia had been supplying Germany. (Russia has announced that w.e.f Thursday, it has shut down the Yamal-Europe gas pipeline which is the trunk route transporting gas to German market.) "Expert opinion is that if oil price touches $125 per barrel, US economy slides into recession."
@sugarsweethoney Not that h- KISHORE is accurate. He didn't mention the blowback with the sanctions on Russia, but only that it devastated Russia. EU is in huge trouble. Japan told Russia they didn't meant to sanction them-japan relies on energy and commodities from Russia
@@biggpicture2930
And they think Putin is just a “nobody” to be “taken out”. Putin is a talented man in many skills n qualities to manage Russia economies/Russian oligarchs- tactician/FSB at core.
US always undermines the “enemy” because of their big egos.
In confusing times, one can only trust Professor Mahbubani for the truth and the wisdom!
Yes, let's make it consistent, no exceptions for countries' crimes, no more exceptions for US. No more double standards if UN want to be a trusted organization.
This conflict is created by the US encircling Russia! It could be avoided had Ukraine declared that it would remain neutral and would not seek NATO membership. Russia had complained about it for 7 years, but the West chose to ignore. Russia is applying the same tactic it used in Chechnya and Syria. Therefore it will win.
US proxy Asov battalion in Eastern Ukraine is being surrounded and will be destroyed.
*Russia won't "win". It will succeed in its "special military operation" in Ukraine.*
And now also taiwan against china
@@martintan4982 Taiwan belonged to China. It is not an issue in UN.
China always blames the US for all the world's troubles!
*I am shocked at the negative one-sided myopic sentiment expressed in the Roundtable, particularly by the emotional Jonathan Eyal! I have come to ignore most Western speakers on matters concerning Russia or China and others! They appear to be incapable of looking beyond the tip of their nose!*
He can't help it. The propaganda is so strong they actually believed in their own lies.
“The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”
(Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order)
"those who can convice you of absurdities can convince you to commit atrocities".
I am so surprised that the topics on NATO eastward encroachment to Russia is not mentioned. Why 1962 missile crisis was a big issue?
The White man is supposed to be a Russian expert but he really doesn't know much except his own biases.
I think Ukraine's leaders have not been wise in deciding to join Ukraine. Kissinger actually said the Ukraine should not a listening post for the East or West.. it should instead be a bridge for East and West. Stay neutral, keep the peace and become prosperous
Bridges become tactical/strategic targets in times of disputes, which looks like what has happened with Ukraine.
Its a regime changed, pro-US puppet pawn used to contain Russia. Unfortunately it's to corrupt to actually think in its own interests, only to serve imperialists
Biden: "We're closing American air space to all Russian flights."
Zelenskyy: "That's not enough. You'll need to say/do something useful that works."
Biden: "You still don't understand what I have repeatedly said before. You Ukrainians must sacrifice for 'our' democratic values. How much more weapons do you still need?"
FIFA/UEFA: "We banned Russia from international soccer competitions, including the World Cup."
International Judo Federation: "We suspended Vladimir Putin's status as Honorary President and Ambassador."
World Taekwondo: "Vladimir Putin has been stripped of an honorary black belt."
European Broadcasting Union: "Russia has been booted from the 2022 Eurovision Song Contest."
International Skating Union: "Russian and Belarussian skaters will be banned from World Championships."
Cat Fanciers' Association: "No cat bred in Russia may be imported and entered into world competitions."
U.S. and E.U.: "Sberbank and Gazprombank are still in SWIFT because we still need to buy Russian oil and gas. Sorry guys!"
Ukraine: "What the f**k are you doing?"
Kissinger also said “to be a enemy of America can be dangerous but to be a friend is fatal”. Be warned. Ukraine is finding this now. Not surprised if US and Europe misled him into thinking they would back him up.
they could've done that with the government they overthrew in 2014. they made it clear they also have to join NATO. that wasn't EU's plan it was US. if you remember cookie monster Nuland said, "F*ck EU."
What Jonathan said is IT IS OK for US to violates international laws, e.g. Libya, Iraq, so on and on. Still that love of colonial power display from him.
Agreed. Bias in his views.
What do you expect from a white guy with COLONIALISTS mindset
that's why US wants to be the one and only top dog.
Unfortunately that is the side effects/disease that many colonialist suffer from, the "god complex", or "god chosen people", it is a permanent state.
It lies dormant for the most part and easily awaken with simple propaganda, as you can now witness, after a few days of propaganda many european public have risen up to Russia, having no idea why other than what their MSMs told them. It is scary. It is much worst in the US, remember Trump and anti china campaign, resulting in the rise of hate crimes against chinese people or anyone that looks chinese. Look at how they treat the black americans and japanese americans, their psychosis is very real easily triggered by their govt.
And now many Russian establishement, restaurants are being attacked, russian americans ostrazised, when US comes after China, guess what, the focus will be on asian americans once more.
White americans and europeans are very easliy programmed to hate using simple hate campaign.
I can't believe that such a round table is so shallow. Does Russia have no legitimate concern with Ukraine joining NATO? Does the stationing of nuclear missiles and other weapons in Poland, Estonia and Latvia and Lithuania..not pose an existential security threat to Russian security? That Ukraine has attacked it own people in Donbass region and forbade the use of Russian language of these ethnic Russians don't raise any issues? Why no discussion on assurances on not one inch eastward made by western leaders to Gorbachev? Is it in Norway's national interest to join NATO or be a neutral state like Sweden and Finland, keep the peace and still prosperous?
Dude, Political correctness stupidity is spreading like a deadly virus by yanks and all the whites! How the fk they a such a small group that controls the narrative of the world
Those points are all reasonable grievances but Putin's talk to Russian citizens should've led with them and not the "Ukraine is a fake state" or "its leaders are neo-nazi's". It let the West point to those statements and say, "see, he's crazy!".
The root cause of this war is the West repeatedly reneged on its promises over the past decades not to expand eastward. The last straw came when the west wanted to admit Ukraine and place nuclear war weapons next to Russia border. USA conveniently forgot it was also willing to go to nuclear war when Russia wanted to put nuclear weapons in cuba. The west just lack the integrity to own up they instigated this war and as usual blame others. LOL.
Thanks for pointing that out. I was very unimpressed with the depth of the discussion, esp Prof Mahbubani
@@galaxymetta5974 and 20 years of US led regime change operations.
Well done Kishore! Glad you made that point about consistency. Something that westerners tend to overlook when they judge others but not themselves.
What I notice too out of this Ukraine situation is that America is going around to all the countries to pressure them to side with them. Many unkind words were directed to India when it abstained. In fact the issue of sanctioning India under the US bullying law of caatsa has been floated to change india's mind. It would be a sad situation if the UNGA becomes like the American political system where you lobby politicians to get your way.
You are pretty right.. west are forcing India kind of blackmailing them openly imagine what happened to small countries. Look at the 35 absentees. Mostly Asia.
The U.S. now threatens India of sanctions amid Russia-Ukraine crisis, especially after India abstained from the United Nations General Assembly vote to condemn Russia. This comes after American futile efforts to convince China to side with the U.S. in its condemnation of the Russian offensive on Ukraine. In retaliation, the Biden administration sent a delegation of former defense and national security top officials to Taiwan to pile pressures on China. American media followed their government narratives to shift the blame onto China. A recent op-ed on the New York Times even accused China of knowingly asked Russia to delay the attack until after the Beijing Winter Olympics even when they knew that the Paralympics are still going on. The U.S. until this day still thinks that they can shout commands to whoever it wants. American politicians never realize that their highhandedness and bullying tactics only alienate the world, including their allies and partners and friends who are too weak to voice their own opinions.
*Is India not part of the "Quad" (US, India, Japan, and Australia) that America set up to encircle China?* If US is thinking of sanctioning India then it should kiss Quad good bye.
@@wahyuindrasto8307 well it depends on how useful the US thinks india is in countering china. History shows us countries that no longer have a use, no longer fulfilling US goals have been cut loose when their services are no longer required. This may be the pretext they use to sever india from the quad without being blamed.
Kishore comments about building a strong economy & middle class are more practical than conflicts. China does it right. Build a strong China to benefit the people & minimise conflicts.
Kishore is best.
the white man is biased.
The white man is living in the past, that is why Europe is in deep shit! Energy prices had doubled for the last few days! Inflation is killing both US and Europe by their own action to support Ukraine into NATO.
Just cannot agree more >>> NATO expansion eastward is the key concern of Russia that lead to current conflict. 🤩🤩🤩💯💯💯
This guy is not a Russian expert. He’s a NATO supporter😱
That white guy is just fanning & trying to create a divide between Russia and China.
Absolutely. Atypical western painting of evil Putin wanting to conquer Ukraine. LOL.
that white guy is not so much NATO supporter as British Empire passing/collapse denier. Just listen how he speaks of India! And go listen what I dians say about his dump moldy island. Well that plus lazy, small, puny... that sort of things...
This guy represents the same British arrogance that got themselves into big shit by supporting the Brexit! UK's inflation had reached 8% and it is killing UK's economy with their stupid support for NATO's east ward expansion!
That white hypocrite is why russia had to take care of the matter rather than listening to his BS on moral high ground. He should Look in the mirror about the iraq war on weapon of mass destruction, afgan, and the likes. Did the west hold US accountable for the war crimes?
China had step forward on 26th Feb 2022, highlighting to German and Ukraine foreign ministers that NATO expansion eastward is the key concern of Russia that lead to current conflict. China emphasised that unilateral sanctions does not solve current conflict, only dialogue and negotiations. Hence, China has offered as mediator which Ukraine in principle agreed to China's offer and Russia will likely to agree. China's step forward may help reduce the temperature and hopefully secure peace in Ukraine..
The Russia/Ukraine conflict will mark the end of the barbaric gangs of thieves and murderers, which call themselves the western countries.
@@wyodragon4325 the terrorist states is more like cancer. name a country it touched turns out better than before?
@@willengel2458 Poland, Hungary, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Cech Republic, Romania, Bulgaria, etc, etc.
US officials will not allow Zelensky to stop provoking Russia, just like it will topple any Taiwanese political party wanting peaceful existence with China. It is that evil.
@@lenomali Whitewater is providing security details for Porky and Gov. Tsai. doubt US would change its procedure.
Finally - What it SHOULD mean for Asia (Taiwan) is to be careful not to be goaded by the US into believing that you can get away with poking or crossing red lines that large neighbours have deemed sensitive to their security interest.😉
Pompeo has started to goad Taiwan.
If Jonathan and his country are really concerned about peace in Europe or in the world, you should have voiced out that Nato should cease to operate when Warsaw treaty organization does not exist. The reality is that Nato has been expanding and taking in ex-Warsaw members. Just before the war began, what Putin needs is onky an assurance from Nato that Nato will not accept Ukraine as its member. So stop this hyprocracy and stop pretending you are saint.
It remains to be seen if the much hyped American "rock-solid support" to Taiwan would become "molten lava" like the one towards Ukraine.
@@edwardho5911 Jonathan is clearly pro-Western, judging by what he normally writes in the ST.
@@edwardho5911 well said
Here's a Chinese analogy to explain the Russia-Ukraine conflict in the form of a family drama:
More than 20 years ago, Ukraine divorced her ex-husband (Russia), and took several children along with her.
Still, the ex-husband was very accommodating to her and left her with a lot of family property. After that, the ex-husband also paid off more than 200 billion in debts for her.
After getting rid of her ex-husband, Ukraine started flirting with the village chief (United States) and his harem of concubines (NATO countries) until she was completely ensnared in their arms.
That's still acceptable to a certain point, (but) she was smitten with the village tyrant, and hooked up with him in a plan to attack her ex-husband.
The ex-husband was very angry and had insisted on returning a child: Crimea.
Ukraine began to harboring grudges against her ex-husband, and dreams of someday marrying into the NATO family, which in turn would lead them right up to her ex-husband's doorstep.
But the truth is that the village chief didn't really want to marry Ukraine into the family. After all, she was high-maintenance and loved to pocket his money (corruption). His many wives also didn't want Ukraine to join family, but in front of Ukraine, they were all smiles and encouraging her to join.
The village chief just wanted to use her like a pawn to bully her ex-husband. After 8 years of constant abuse, her two children (Donetsk and Luhansk) were crying and imploring for help from their father.
The village chief was always on the sidelines in the ex-husband and wife quarrel, occasionally sending in expired items (ammunition) from time to time. Because of that, Ukraine thought she had someone to support her, and became even more presumptuous towards her ex-husband.
A badboy, (Azov Battalion) in which is a favorite of the village chief, supplies the village chief with cool toys and bad Influence.
The ex-husband could bear it no longer, took another glance at the poor treatment of the children, and rushed over in defense of his two children, so the ex-husband and wife started fighting.
Now, the village chief and his many wives are cheering on Ukraine from the sidelines, yet none of them are willing to lift an actual finger and partake in the fighting themselves.
Ukraine is unlikely to marry into the NATO family, because that would mean that the village chief and his many wives would be obliged to join the fight against the ex-husband.
The village chief and his harems have a habit of wrecking other peoples marriages, stealing their properties and starving their children.
Now the village tyrant (United States) even tries to blame the quarrel to the ex-husband's friend. (China)
.......
Hopefully this analogy puts the Russia-Ukraine conflict into perspective and on a more relatable level.
Very good, i will use this apology 😅
Nice one.
Very good ! A little story that depicts the thruth.
You craked me real bad. LOL
Nothing beats this very insightful analogy!
That Jonathan is twisting the facts. Putin did not say Ukraine is not a nation.
Clearly Jonathan is not giving a balanced view. He only sees from the western's perspective. What pushes Putin to take such drastic actions. What about NATO has been doing in the past?
Did you watch his address to Russian citizens? He did question the legitimacy of the Ukrainian nation, not just its government. He should've led with the other legitimate grievances against nato, knowing that the western media would be listening in as well as the Russian citizens.
The main winner is still the US military industrial complex with its humongous budget n the main loser is Germany , having to absorb unwelcome increasing cost to its economy...
According to Geopolitics n Conflicts, NATO is all abt Keeping US in , Germany down n Russia out...
Very true. For 8 years Ukraine did not implement the UNSC endorsed Minsk agreement and the UNSC was powerless to do anything about. In the meantime 14,000 people were killed.
It was an agreement forced at the point of the gun that is a guarantee for failure same will happen if Russia expects a new agreement.
@@natbirchall1580 Who pointed the gun at who? Russia, Germany, France, Russia, UNSC?
Sadam Hussien was also a hero when mighty US bullied Iraq. Unfortunately he was captured and murdered by the US. Where was the ICC?
For kishore's last point, I disagree. The soviet union was great because it had the security as a large nation, and was not subordinated to the west. Conversely, Russia after the breakup of the soviet union was much weaker militarily and politically, which then caused its most painful years economically as it lost its technological edge and became a commodity exporter. If Putin wants the Russia as a large nation to thrive, security is absolutely necessary. Russia is not a small country, and it cannot find safety under NATO's security umbrella, especially when NATO was created to undermine Russia. What exactly is Putin's calculus, we cannot be certain. But I am inclined to think he is more intelligent than most perceive him to be.
Yup, in Putin's early years of taking power in Russia, as a matter of fact Putin had expressed his desire to join NATO but was snubbed again and again. NATO's eastward expansion had let Putin realised that NATO's goal is still to undermine Russia. Before 2007, Putin had done nothing to antagonised the west, but it was the west that is pushing into Russia's limit to their own security!
@@marvinfok65 i agree. The tough part here is that it's politically incorrect to think independently and voice out these opinions without getting cancelled. Of course, the prediction here is that the European governments will just shrug Ukraine off and agree to a deal with Putin when things get tough.
@@justinlee9789
Ukraine's comedian president is to take a big blame for putting Ukraine into such a disaster! No weak nation does what this comedian does by joining a military group that threatens a militarily powerful neighbor! Now that Ukraine is in ruins what did NATO do? Just watch from the sidelines!
Vladimir Putin's military action against Ukraine is indeed extreme but he only did what he had to do to protect the security of Russia when there was no hope of a peaceful solution to stopping Ukraine from becoming a NATO ally on its doorstep where American nuclear missiles which the U.S. wants to deploy can reach Moscow in less than 10 minutes. He even expressed to Bill Clinton in 1999 of his desire to join NATO as he wanted Russia to be part of western Europe. Great strategists and scholars like Henry Kissinger warned decades ago of severe reactions from Russia if their security is threatened. It is American hegemonic tendency that leads to all sort of tensions and wars and destructions in every corner of the globe. America needs to reflect on itself.
The U.S.A. engineered the war to steer European capitals to the U.S. to rescue its economy and to make lots of money out of American LNG to Europe. Now, they want to prolong this protracted war to sap the Russian economy and military strength. Under American commands, NATO might take charge and lead European troops into skirmishes with Russia so that they can keep Europe on a short leash when the economies of all European nations were devastated. That's the Marshall Plan Version 2022.
kishore的话实际是说给美国听的，只是在场上的是美国人，他们太傲慢，根本听不进去
The white man seems like a fortune teller can tell Russia will fail in the end...LOL.
Mind you this is only the prelude of what is coming after those willing to leave Ukraine had done so.
Wanting to include China about the nuclear disarmament when US has more than 20 times larger, China as usual asking US in a courteous Chinese way - have you eaten?
Britain will need to challenge china russia and india abd colonise them
Let me tell you why India abstained from the U.N. voting.
India has been a non- aligned Country for a long time. The U.S. or the NATO Countries never supported us on KASHMIR issues.
Ukraine consistently voted against India on Kashmir. They supported Pakistan. After all, foreign Policy of a Country is about her Self-interest. India needs Russian support more than Ukraine's.
We have spoken against the Russian invasion at the U.N. and
Asked the waring nations to stop the war immediately and solve the issues diplomatically. We condemn Russian invasion. Also, you should understand why Putin did what he did in Ukraine. The U.S. and the NATO promised Russia that they not expand the NATO eastward , but betrayed their promise. They wanted to incorporate Ukraine also in to the NATO. They provoked the Russians again and again and is greatly responsible for this tragedy. They used Ukraine to Poke the Russian bear repeatedly.
The Russian bear is retaliating now. The West used Ukraine and now they will abandon them. They are not going to fight for the Ukraine. They are telling the Ukranians that they will hold the coats for them and to go fight the Russians. Poor Ukranians are used and discarded. May God Bless Ukraine.
Ukraine leader is not supposed to be there just to write down what Nato/US say, or do what they ask, or even worse, stir up populism and taking their people to the road of no return. Leader needs wisdom to lead its people to safety at the least if not prosperity. Zelensky did just the opposite and will blame on his people’s choice. His leadership is leading people to hell.
I think zelansky is still a comedian up to this point... 🤔
What Russia did to Ukraine & what USA & European countries did to those middle east countries for decades causes immense suffering to the civilians.
Probably white lives are more valuable.
Russia is fighting Ukraine for its security. On the other hand, the US and its vassals invaded and bombed Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, and Syria in order steal their wealth. The US and its vassals are merely vulgar barbaric gangs of thieves and murderers.
Russia has not done anything to Ukraine, yet. have you heard anything about the Neo-Nazis in Ukraine?
@@willengel2458 you will not hear the word “neo-nazism” in the west. It’s buried.
Zelensky is a puppet
Kishore is my idol. Having said that, my question is, how the current situation reenforces the current political situation in US and China. i.e. plutocracy in US and meritocracy in China?
Jonathan clearly forgot West predicted quagmire for Russia in Syria. While Ukrainian is tough, Russian is tougher. Russian did poorly up to now, but they are famous for persistence and high- tolerance for loss and defeat. I would predict the worse case for Putin is Syrian situation which he is quite happy with since Russia gets the Eastern Ukraine.
I don't think Russia is doing poorly in the Ukraine. I think they are deliberately trying to invade "softly" (if there is such a thing).
I mean, if they wanted to, the Russians could do what the Americans always do - bomb the country into rubble.
Yet, the Russians aren't. Probably because if they did, Ukraine would want to join NATO even more. This way, there are still some "moderate" Ukrainians who may be willing to negotiate.
Also, probably because if Russia did indeed start a bombing campaign, NATO would more likely get involved and declare a "no fly" zone.
@@cpc9563 yes, Russia historically goes "soft"; they want to avoid civilian casualties. They did the same in Syria. Surround target areas (cities). Then set-up humanitarian corridors so civilians can leave. Soldiers can leave too if they surrender their arms.
@@kort2436 I agree. But everyone in the West, and the second-rate journalists here, believe otherwise.
I'm afraid Jonathan is the perfect example of "we can do no wrong", even when it is wrong it is right in our white minds.
Its very sad that the world ignored 8 years of ukranian genocide of its own people in east ukraine...many kids died in tht war bcs ukranian army killed russian speaking ukranians in donbass...and now russia says its enough n payback time..
Sadly no western news showed this tragedy for past 8 years
U been brainwashed
I bet you are a fervent China supporter like Kishore. To my last dollar.
Brainwashed to the max by CCP.
@@donaldjoseph3903 Its mutual dude.
The Russian Speaking East Ukraine is putting up the strongest resistance against the Russian.
Russia is the Invader, since 2014, started with Crimea.
It is the Russian, Putin that started the Killings.
I am here to see professor Kishore
Jonathan claims that it is wrong for Russia to decide if Ukraine is a nation n that Ukraine had a right to decide if it wants to join NATO. US not only did not recognise Venezuela sovereighty but even appointed Guaido to be its president. Ukraine gov was overthrown by a coup engineered by US. Victoria Nuland declared that US spent 5 billion $ to finance the color revolution. When Soviet Union planted a nuclear missile in Cuba, John Kennedy gave them 48 hrs ultimatum. Therefore to claim that Ukraine had the absolute right to decide if it wants to join NATO is double standard.
Agree. I refuse to call this a Russian invasion. It's a "humanitarian intervention" which will save thousands of Ukrainian lives.
Unfortunatly for the world, what the US and its allies do is always double standard !!!
*If Russia does not act now, then when? When Ukraine become a NATO member, whether officially or unofficially? Or when Russia is confronted with missiles placed near its borders? Russian intervention did not occur suddenly and without warning. Despite the Minsk Agreements, the West (US & NATO) was throwing down the gauntlet at Russia! Ask yourself intellectually, what was Russia to do? Accept the threat of missiles at its doorstep or remove the threat?*
Johnathan is almost hysterical when describing Putin/Russia. Unfortunately, this appears to be the pervasive mindset in the collective west.
shouldn't they have spoken about the Donbas Region crisis and the Minsk Agreement 1 & 2..? Weren't they the "prequel" to the present crisis. Furthermore this crisis has also shown Zelensky understanding and knowledge of International Politics..?
Great discussions! I love hearing from Kishore Mahbubani! I could listen to Kishore all day! I love you, Mr Kishore Mahbubani!
U must be a fervent China supporter like Kishore.. I bet to my last dollar.
So what you say is we must all be "China Man Bad". We must all pray to our western overlords and cannot think for ourselves...😆
I wouldn't call kishore a fervent china supporter. He just likes to point out the truth of the geopolitics of the situation we find ourselves in today. He has also highlighted many things china gets wrong in his talks. Because he knows history and has been privy to the international system, he wants to contribute to peace and fairness of all countries. I'm sure if America was a force for good doing and speaking truth and facts, kishore would only be pointing out all the wonderful things America has done for this world.
The war is testament that the overriding concern of all countries is security and countries must be strong militarily to deter subjugation. This applies to Russia and China too.These countries are able to safeguard their sovereignty and deter aggression from the West precisely because of their military strength.
Western media report atrocities of Ukraine conflict whilst Iraq n afghan that suffered more were underreported
Small countries need to be a member of a military pact like NATO to protect themselves against Russia and China! On their own, they are defenceless against huge countries like Russia or China.
@@mikedasilva5239 Also against the US and it's Allies. Iraq, Lybia, Serbia, Yemen, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Syria, Cuba...etc..etc. GET THE PICTURE?
@@mikedasilva5239 name one country which China has invaded in modern history?China has not fired a bullet in anger in 40 years.
@@thinkingaloud5379 Tibet and East Turkestan were brutally conquered. China attacked India in 1962, attacked Vietnam in 1979. Now, China threatens to conquer Taiwan and the South China Sea. China has border clashes with all her neighbours!
High respect to mr.Mahbunani
Enjoyed the discussion . I always respect the geo-political views of Prof. Kishore Mahbubani and am an admirer of his knowledge and perception. I cant say the same about Ravi Vellore. Both Kishore and Ravi are ethnic Indians, and I can understand their non-critical stance when it comes to India. This makes the discussion somewhat biased and subjective when India's role and behaviour in regional affairs, specially viz-a-vis China is discussed.
Ravi vellore's comments are more transparent in terms of his obvious leanings towards India and bias against Pakistan. For instance, in his last comment he implied that the Pakistan PM's presence in Moscow on a state visit at the invitation of Mr. Putin on the day of Russia's invasion of Ukraine was somehow mysterious and meaningful . The fact , however , is that the Pakistan PM's visit to Moscow had been planned and fixed long before the Ukraine invasion and crisis took place. This twisting of facts by Ravi Vellore to suit his conspiratorial argument with clear bias towards India is deplorable. Unfortunately this trait in even educated Indians ,which one can see domestically as well as internationally shows that Indian mind is very toxic in terms of its nationalistic fervor.
Pakistan visit to Russia was quite mysterious even though the visit was pre-planned, event the invasion would be pre-planned. It was the same day of the year as it was the invasion of Cremia.
@@Sam-tz8ou absolutely... Even if assuming Pakistan didn't know, Russia would be knowing fully well.. So it was mysterious no doubt.
Most Indians are like Ravi and Kishore in having a wrong perception of Pakistan. It was Gandhi who caused the partition of India when he insisted on a hindu system of govt ( ram rajya ) in 1936 and never changed his view. This view of Gandhi goes against legal principles as besides the hindu faith, there are other faiths in India. Jinnah was on the right side of law to seek a new separate state Pakistan. And he got it.
Kishore's is living in fantasyland with his view of consistency at UN. Singapore has misled America in the past over the East Timor issue in 1975. Singapore is ignorant of the history and culture of South East Asia.
Totally agreed with you, I hv stop readng articles by Ravi in ST, he is quite chauvinistic .
Jonathan Eyal could not be more misinformed. Like so many of the pretentious pundits we encounter in the media today, he pretends to have an inside understanding of the Russian battle plan and the order and pace of attack. Russia has been holding back its most destructive weapons and many of its troops remain in reserve. The Western reporting of the Ukrainian resistance is greatly exaggerated. The early focus of Russia’s attack has been in the West and it has been highly effective.
Whenever you point out that the West did the exact same thing in Iraq, apologists for the Empire always say "two wrongs don't make a right".
Well, then why is it that only one wrong seems to get punished? Why is the other wrong ALWAYS allowed? Indeed, that "fellow" who commits the other wrong seems to keep doing it because he never seems to be punished!
Lol, true. The answer of course is that geopolitics is anarchic. The actors on the stage are nations and all the world is the stage. There is no director or any other higher power to appeal to when one "fellow" wrongs another. Geopolitics should not be analogized to rules that govern individuals. That is why Putin can invade Ukraine and the West can sanction Russia. Conversely, US can invade Iraq, and those willing could sanction the US...except no one was willing to commit seppuku-by-dollar.
@@echen71 You're absolutely right. The American Empire is just too powerful, at the moment.
This is why I think that this was a tactical mistake for the Empire. I think all of its other allies will now be secretly thinking how to distance themselves.
I mean, Ukraine was just thrown under the bus to keep the Western Europeans in line. "Now now... don't go thinking you can play with those other kids..."
Junior partner to China ......what about Europe being a puppy continent to the USA?
Why no discussion about the US and NATO's incursion on Russia?
Kishore's advice to Putin is infact directed to US.
Thank you for this useful panel discussion. At some point, it would be good to have Kishore Mabhubani and Niall Ferguson in a conversation about the growth and sustainability of the middle classes in Asia!
Niall knows very little of Asia, his view is based on his western glasses, which most of the time wrong as Eastern cultures are different.
Kishore first comments at 6:00 already highlights this. UK voice was just to back US. AND IT ISN"T CONSISTENT AND IS BIAS. UK words are such bad propaganda and it's so sickeningly 1 sided
Dear Prof Kishore,
You and Robert D Kaplan are my favourite geopolitical authors of all time. However, both of you have failed to mention the elephant in the room, the unjustified eastward expansion of NATO despite the end of the Cold War.
On May 2, 1998, immediately after the US Senate ratified NATO expansion, George Kennan, undisputedly US's pre-eminent expert on Soviet Union, had made the following prescient comments during a telephone interview with Thomas L. Friedman:
“I think it is the beginning of a new cold war. I think the Russians will gradually react quite adversely and it will affect their policies. I think it is a tragic mistake. There was no reason for this whatsoever. No one was threatening anybody else. This expansion would make the founding fathers of this country turn over in their graves.
“We have signed up to protect a whole series of countries, even though we have neither the resources nor the intention to do so in any serious way. [NATO expansion] was simply a lighthearted action by a Senate that has no real interest in foreign affairs. What bothers me is how superficial and ill informed the whole Senate debate was. I was particularly bothered by the references to Russia as a country dying to attack Western Europe.
“Don’t people understand? Our differences in the Cold War were with the Soviet Communist regime. And now we are turning our backs on the very people who mounted the greatest bloodless revolution in history to remove that Soviet regime. And Russia’s democracy is as far advanced, if not farther, as any of these countries we’ve just signed up to defend from Russia. Of course there is going to be a bad reaction from Russia, and then [the NATO expanders] will say that we always told you that is how the Russians are - but this is just wrong.”
2008's Georgia and 2014's Crimea are the harbingers of 2022's Ukraine, no thanks to President Zelenskyy whose adamant solicitation of NATO membership is sending his countrymen to the slaughterhouse.
Thanks. The Prof really disappointed. When one sees the gray hairs, one will expect some degree of objectivity and clear reasoning. Probably gave him much credit.
When Kishore says Putin’s decision to defend his own backyard, Ukraine, from USA intentions to put their own chosen puppet leader, their own military base & their own nukes there …is shocking to him….it is a statement of Kishore’s that is one of pure diplomatic charisma…if not..Kishore has another window in his room of political thoughts that needs his pondering gaze.
Countries in Asia should be very mindful of savings in USD and Euro, also about SWIFT. They could be sanctioned anytime if their narratives don’t suit the US president. Mind you every 4 years US President might change and their perception about the country.
One thing I know Chinese will move away from those sanctioning countries and Swiss banks have lost a lot of potential Chinese customers too.
That's should be the way. UN against both invasion of IRAQ and UKRAINE and be effective in stopping it. Consistent and not just against those who are not on the US or western nations
The Russian expert needs to be interviewed again as some other geopolitical analysts had earlier gave their views that Russia has a clear strategy and now in hindsight, looks like these guys' views are rather on point. Quite contrary to this expert's comments
Yes, remember to be consistent with every invasion.
The views of Jonathan is the usual American narrative and has nothing to shed light on the true issues. Let me draw your attention to the vies of Alexander Macouris, Gen. Barshis, another Indian Maj. Gen. their point of views demonstrated the Russia has intentionally at a higher cost of Russian lives, chose not to use their normal way of attack; they chose to do as little loss of Ukrainian lives as they can. I fail to understand how 144 UN members voted against Russia. I believe that after 14 years of reminding America & NATO allies that they gave a verbal promise that NATO will not expand "1 inch" of land into the former USSR and they broke that promise. In these circumstances Putin has again demonstrated that he will move to have America and NATO to abide by their promise and to invade Ukraine to "cleanse" Ukraine off anti-Russia elements. The war is into the 2nd week and the west has propagandised that Russia is beginning to crumble; this is not what is said by the those who know the facts and have knowledge of war fare; Russia is prosecuting this war according to schedule. Russia does not intend to hold Ukraine but to merely install a regime that is Russia friendly. I believe President Putin to restore the dully elected Government of President Yarnokovich, who was removed by the coup d'tate led by Victoria Nuland. View the opinion of Alexander Mercuris and by his assessment, the real and meaningful "fighting is already drawing to an end ! Only time will tell hindsight ! That said I appeal to all our Chinese brothers and sisters both on the mainland of China and our Chinese diaspora around the world, Russia and China mus support each other. Russia needs China and China needs Russia. WE STICK TOGETHER OR WE BOTH PERISH.
kishmore Mahboubani is very rational and unbiased scholar. He in sharp contrast to the parrots western media. Mahboubani we salute you for your courage. You are a voice for the world.
The (US) United States call it "Liberation" instead of "Invasion". That was what US call it in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Somalia and the list goes on... Why the double standard? Confused... Please enlighten. Genuine question...
Instances of the United States "liberated" or overthrowing, or attempting to overthrow, a foreign government since the Second World War. (* indicates successful ouster of a government)
China 1949 to early 1960s
Albania 1949-53
East Germany 1950s
Iran 1953 *
Guatemala 1954 *
Costa Rica mid-1950s
Syria 1956-7
Egypt 1957
Indonesia 1957-8
British Guiana 1953-64 *
Iraq 1963 *
North Vietnam 1945-73
Cambodia 1955-70 *
Laos 1958 *, 1959 *, 1960 *
Ecuador 1960-63 *
Congo 1960 *
France 1965
Brazil 1962-64 *
Dominican Republic 1963 *
Cuba 1959 to present
Bolivia 1964 *
Indonesia 1965 *
Ghana 1966 *
Chile 1964-73 *
Greece 1967 *
Costa Rica 1970-71
Bolivia 1971 *
Australia 1973-75 *
Angola 1975, 1980s
Zaire 1975
Portugal 1974-76 *
Jamaica 1976-80 *
Seychelles 1979-81
Chad 1981-82 *
Grenada 1983 *
South Yemen 1982-84
Suriname 1982-84
Fiji 1987 *
Libya 1980s
Nicaragua 1981-90 *
Panama 1989 *
Bulgaria 1990 *
Albania 1991 *
Iraq 1991
Afghanistan 1980s *
Somalia 1993
Yugoslavia 1999-2000 *
Ecuador 2000 *
Afghanistan 2001 *
Venezuela 2002 *
Iraq 2003 *
Haiti *2004
Somalia 2007 to present
Honduras 2009 *
Libya 2011 *
Syria 2012
Ukraine 2014 *
Jonathan Eyal really does not understand military strategy.
Prof. Kishore is my hero.
Very good interview. We could have done without the slight anti russia overtone though, or at least critique all parties of the conflict.
Kishore!!👍👏👏👏
If China, Russia and India groups together as the Holy Trinity, I believe they can run the world into a better place for our children. Peace and Love!!
There is damage to Russia's economy but not to disastrous way you painted it. Since the Maidan colour revolution of 2014 Russia has taken counter measures to soften discriminative West financial and economic expected sanctions. As to Jonathan's view, he is desperately trying to revive British colonial hegemony.
I believed the west had shot themselves in the foot this time.
Kishore said, due to the long border between China and Russia, which means that they won't be a long term partner, does that mean Canada and Mexico will not be the long term partner of US?
Kishore is wrong about that, there has never been a border dispute between the two and neither of the two wants to expand into the other's territory. They don't want anything from each other except friendship with benefits.That is why declared that they are friends without limits.
It means Never Ever Trust the USA
Johnathan must be paid by the US government. Now it is day 10 Russia has surrounded Kyiv on three fronts and allowing civilians to leave before they push on the city. It is a calculated move by Putin not because he can't do it but he wants to do it in his own way.
That guy is just like commentator blowing smokes without basis.
When you hear expert of this and that beware !!!
The two factors of global economic clout and media penetration are the decisive forces that drive UN outcomes. The West more or less dominates these arenas. Iraq 2003 is a classic example. For this reason, most sensible nations stay clear of the UN focusing rather on bilateral ties and building regional spheres of influence.
Best comment I've read in a while!
The sound volume is low.
Great conversation/discuss! 👍👏
Interesting but please improve the audio quality, volume up 🙏pls
@13:43 : how about the so called Cuban crisis ? why that is happen back then huh?
Jonathan is indeed an NATO expert. lol
Where is the round table?
Brilliant conversation . Thank you .
US have the dollar dominance and China have the most complete supply in the world such as Pharmaceutical products, daily products, technological products and rare earth etc....Who will suffer most if they decouple ?? Can Walmart , Apple and Tesla etc survive without China supply ? ? Can American citizens live without Pharmaceutical products and daily products such as toilet roll from China if the 2 countries decouple ?? The answer is no way...Can China trade without US dollar ?? The answer is Yes...
The question the panel need to answer is which country post wwII first violated the UN charter for soveriegnty on another country , the country who continue this violation up to present which the majorityof the countries in the world are afraid to speak out against. That country is the USA. Further, Russia us only doing what the USA has been doing since the vietnam war.
Israel is also abstained too... just FYI.
Lots of Russian Jews in Russia. Israel is worried about ramifications on them hence treading very carefully
@@durianhong564 U are not wrong, but we might want dive deeper for the this action (or inaction in this case). To find the real answer.
Did U know why the Ukrainian doesn't have any (I mean 0/zero/none) missile defenses (like patriot, THAAD, DOME system etc).
And also U must be aware that in Ukraine the neo-nazi is alive and kicking right?.
Israel voted in favour in the latest resolution.
@@snikeduden2850 Yes she does.
Do they do it w/o "pressure" from the US? all I want to say the geopolitic is not that simple. that's all.
@@ecrush5080 There is always a certain pressure, yet it seems obvious to me that Israel is acting according to their own interests. I mean, they abstaines first, hence aren't some US puppet. Moeover, the Israeli PM recently visited Moscow.
My take regarding why Putin decided to invade the whole of Ukraine rather than just annexing Crimea and Donbass, is that he knows that if he leave it as such, it will encourage both Ukraine and NATO to formalize their relationship more, in one way or another. He is trying to force Ukraine to negotiate a compromise to provide guarantees that they not join NATO or allow NATO weaponry to be deployed in Ukraine, which will threaten Russia in the long run. However, Putin probably didn't expect the huge resistance he faced with the Ukrainians.
I think both sides are surprised by each others' actions, which led to further escalations. US never expected Putin to respond, but respond he did, so they felt they had to double down by applying global sanctions and seizing of russian reserves (a declaration of war), which is already a big mistake, as it showed the world US will weaponized the USD at will, but the final nail is they started a campaign of demonising not just Putin but the entire Russian population - this is equivalent to Hitler demonizing all jews.
US has shown its true fascistic face and EU went along with it, you guessed it, the world is now wondering what will be the "final solution" to the russian problem!
The US have always projected its atrocities onto others, but it is now clear to see, you realy cannot reason with a psychotic regime of a democratic nation like US, because it changes its leader every 4 years, no one takes responsibility.
That is the beauty of a corrupted democracy, you vote and switch president every 4 years and past war crimes are forgotten/reset e.g. Bush & Blair in contrast to a dictator, if a dictator is just much like a king or queen, he/she will be revered, but if the dictator is evil, then similarly he/she will be remembered, that is why Putin is more accountable compared to psychotic US presidents who are merely actors, the real power lies behind powerful corporations - that is the secret that wields the real power, who will NEVER be held to account because we are busy voting for the next president.
When Strait Times is more Asia than Channel News Asia
more... but still anti-china... lol
This video's sound is very low and hard to hear!
Kishore, don't be shocked. All the pragmatic analysts say Russia will not invade Ukraine, citing logical reason.
Much of the discussion was superficial as they didn't really talk about the reasons for the conflict. Also in terms of economics they dont mention why "asia" has a lot business support of the west being as it is their cheap source of labor.
Good narrative.
Glad to see so many people able to see the DOUBLE STANDARDS of the US / WEST. This war and the ‘south China sea’ tensions were predicted in 2015 by professor John Mearsheimer [Yale University Lectures]
How long did it take for the USA to take Bagdad?
3 weeks for the US to enter Baghdad. That’s about 10 days of shock and awe bombing of the country that the Russians didn’t do in Ukraine.
love the show
I'm glad to know southeast Asia is peacefully survive
Countries apply sanction equal to taking sides there are too many undercurrent it is best to stay far away
The people needs upliftment we are confused by countries.
4 Chats to nowhere. I pat your back, you pat my back. You are right, I am right, we are right.
These three speakers can formed a strong united security...
Who has the bigger might? UK and US have done it in the past. Others can't ?
Why would Russia worry about its long border with China? They don't have any border disputes and China has never been into imperialism. China wuld never attack Russia. China only have problems with their territorial disputes as every nation has the right to fight for territories they claim as theirs.
I like the way u guys think that Russia has invaded their own garden…just the same as when USA frequently has to invade South America…their own garden too? In terms of nuclear political reach…the country with the nukes always protects its ‘’garden’’.
Very good and balanced discussion from all panelist, which is becoming rare these days
Love Mahnanani
Very interesting
How did Mr Putin being a former KGB agent miscalculate Ukrainian resistance ???
that could happen easily... People build echo-chambers, LOVE doing that...
But also I think as of now it's quite impossible to say what the outcome of this horrid war will be. Will Ukranians be happy with martyr role, that West seem to preparing for them? Would others be? You know, looking at Ukraine? Before war Ukrainian leadership wouldn't hear about neutral status. Now they seem to be happy to offer that if that would stop the war and roll things back to what they were few weeks back. People in Ukraine will not be able to feel anything but being betrayed by the West.
The second negotiation ended with Ukraine agreeing to open a safe corridor to allow Ukrainian civilians to get out of Kyiv. This precipitates a much larger, decisive and probably last Russian offensive on the capital with full force. As per warfare definition, anyone who chooses to remain will be considered accomplices to the Ukrainian army and will suffer the consequences of their choice. The fall of Kyiv is expected in the next few days.
@@SimFoxSim
Zelenskyy: "Please impose a no-fly zone over Ukraine."
U.S.A.: "No. It will drag the U.S. into direct conflict with Russia."
U.K.: "Not practicable."
E.U.: "No. It will drag Europe into direct conflict with Russia."
Zelenskyy: "Please at least accept Ukraine into the E.U."
E.U.: Standing ovation but no promise. More sanctions on Russia and more weapons to Ukraine.
He did not miscalculate anything. I'm sure he'd take into a ccount that the war would drag on especially as the russians are very careful in minimizing property damage and civilian casualties. Without regard for for damages and civilian casualties, they would have bombed every city until they give up.
I’m sorry but Jonatan is very biased apparently.
1. Russians don’t view Ukrainians as just “other Russians”. I’m from Kazakhstan, ethnically Ukrainian, Russian and Ossetian. Post soviet states’ histories are extremely intertwined, our ethnicities are very mixed, and we are close due to language, mentality and culture. BUT we all know and laugh about our DIFFERENCES as well.
We still remember war. I was born long after WWII was over but I still hurt for it. We remember our history. The struggles and loss in war is a serious matter. This is a tragedy, brothers fighting brothers. We all hate it.
2. Why was there no mention of the well documented US intervention in Ukrainian politics? Not to mention NATA expansion. What about the 8 year long war in Donbas and the horrors that the US armed neo nazis inflicted on those people? What about nazis having (and I cannot state this strongly enough) SIGNIFICANT influence in Ukrainian politics?
Once again, this is a tragedy and we are all bleeding, if not in fact then in our hearts.
There is a lesson: the US needs to keep its politics inside its own borders.
I am hopeful that this whole mess will at least teach us some valuable lessons. UN weakness is one example. The media is another example. The social media is another. Freedom of speech is another. And all of us need to look very carefully at our politicians. Especially the US because they seem to cause way too many problems, all for their own gains.
Time had proven these discussants on this debate -- were wrong. One of the panelist can be seen arguing from the stand point of unipolar world.
Yes, the unipolar world no longer exists. That’s over. China has formed economic alliances with Russia and Africa, a continent that most in the west ignore as inconsequential. The west simply cannot change its thinking to its detriment. The west ignores the huge Asian bloc of the combined countries of Russia and China, notwithstanding the addition of the huge land mass of Africa.
If that UN leader is a strong leader, he will likely have a real bad accident. His plane would fall out of the sky! Know who I'm referring to?