Everyone always complains about the power of this car but what everyone fails to realize is that this car is a great daily driver and provides phenomenal gas mileage for a sports car & also looks very good. Yes it's not super fast but it's a quick car that will definitely beat your average Honda Accord or Civic while providing good gas mileage & Also since these cars are made by Toyota/Subaru they are some of the most reliable cars made by the most reliable companies that provide great warranties and hold their value really well. Am i the only one who thinks about this ?
king F phenomenal mpg?! Not really. I have a 2013 and get 27.5 mpg. That's coming from a 98 Nissan 200 SX that got about 38~40 mpg. Now that's phenomenal had mileage.
Also a 200 hp engine in the BRZ/86/FRS will be eaten alive by Hondas V6 Accords, which have 272 hp and 252 ft-lbs of torque. Even the Civic Si has 205 hp and weighs less. But the point is yes, its a fairly quick car that is fun to drive.
It's not nearly as reliable as people think. Endless quality little issues, seats, seat belt, random knobs not working well, lots of ppl have engine issues in the early models, etc etc. Their brands are known for being reliable, but not necessarily this car. I see it as " if you are going to get a civic anyways and don't live in winter area or can deal with winter driving, why not get something that looks better and more fun in summer"
you are by far the best, most effective and arguably the best automotive review channel on UA-cam. please know that there are plenty of people who follow you who appreciates the countless hours of video editing, takes, and your thoughtful videography. big fan of yours, scott' and your honest 'tell it like it is' talk.
Lifted_Above Demuro is awful in my opinion. He often misses obvious things, isn’t at all consistent in his opinions, doesn’t educate himself on the vehicles he reviews. He is fun to watch, but nothing like this quality.
I think the most important aspect subaru and Toyota give to the engine. Is that all though everyone complains about the lack of power. They made it very fluent to turbo or supercharge. This gives everyone an option. Remember, they are trying to make a very affordable fun sports car. Why turbo it and hack up the price. It's best that the younger audience can afford to get into this car, have fun without all the speeding tickets, and a few years down the line when they have better jobs and saved up the money, they can revitalize all the fun by boosting a car that is quite capable of handling the power stock
Devin Attia plus FI adds weight by added parts as turbo, piping and cooling etc. Then things wear out faster too. I’m happy this car exists and I want one still
Used to go to school with a kid that had a purple cavalier, I think it was the same color as Scott's Camaro. I can still hear his voice "it's not purple, it's Hawaiian Orchid Metallic!"
Both my daughters had cavaliers. When they were done I sold both cars to a guy at work. He drove both to over 300k . I only remember putting 2 heater cars in each car.No other work and he changed the oil once every year.
Regarding interior space, I've put 112k on my FRS. I'm 63 years old, 6'1" and 250 lbs. I fit in that car like a glove. Ingress and egress is a snap. It's absurdly comfortable.
Solid. The only problem I've had is the water leaking in the tail lights. And that was because it was ALWAYS parked outside and we get some absolute monsoon rainstorms around here. Now that I park at an enclosed garage, it is not an issue. It's now 113k miles and I have yet to replace so much as a spark plug or a brake pad. I have gone through seven sets of tires, though. I corner pretty hard, and there is a LOT of opportunity to do it. I am hearing a little more wind noise than I would like from the back top of the driver’s side door window when it is rolled up, but I think I can fix that.
SYM Films the GT86/BRZ is the most reliable car in both Toyota and Subaru's lineups, it is absurdly reliable unless you basically try to destroy it like the people that do clutch dumps all day and whine about having to replace a throwout bearing because of their bad driving.
Truth: Drive this car, auto or manual, on the mountains in Japan and the car is absolutely perfect just the way it is. We rented one to drive in Gunma (Mt. Haruna) for a full day, and again to cruise around Mt. Fuji for a full day and hit up the passes along the way. I have driven 400-500HP Ferarri, Lamborghini on track but nothing, absolutely nothing compared to driving this car in the mountains. Best driving ever. If you travel to Japan you can rent these from Toyota, which is amazing.
Lifted_Above No, because in the mountains too much power would just make it hard to control. Many sports cars nowadays have more power than you can even use at legal speeds, you spend a ton of money for something with no use anywhere but a track, at which point you're better of just getting a race kart because it's way faster than any street car.
I must love mine so much because price mattered, gas mileage mattered, and fun mattered. I commute 150 miles a day on KY twisties. I've gone 18 miles on my commute without seeing another car. The only modification I've ever done is the tires. RE11's and PSS's are both great. The former is best in dry and the latter is best in wet, but I love 'em both on this car. I cannot say enough positive stuff about this car, even after 112k miles. I just bought a set of plugs since I figure it's time. I'll have to replace the brakes soon too, probably. Oh, and it is a manual.
In dry, not even the Michelin PSS's are as good, though they come really close. It's not just the stickyness. The sidewalls just don't give. It's like riding on rails. i.e. I think you will like them.:)
How many brake pads have you replaced? I'm on 60k with original pads, but I do a lot of highway driving and I'm good at flowing with traffic and revv match downshifting, so I rarely need to brake.
I bought a 2016 auto FRS and I love the car. I’ve had a lot of small cars, things like the 2g eclipse, celica gts, etc and a mix of both manual and auto (actually traded in a 5 speed 2017 lancer) and I absolutely love this car in auto. Life situations dictated that I got the auto, my son needs to learn to drive and doesn’t feel comfortable with manual, which is fine seeing how the automotive industry seems to be heading. This is the first car I’ve owned that I think I’ll end up keeping until I die. I just enjoy it for what it is, I’m not racing anyone, I don’t go to the track, but I wake up every Sunday at 5am to have some alone time just driving on back roads twisties by myself and love it so much. It’s a great daily, costs me nothing to get to work and back, and it’s just a joy to own. I like it a lot, and I think for someone that can’t have a manual for some reason, this is absolutely a great car to own in auto.
Okay, I have never seen your channel before and this was in my recommended section. I don't regret clicking on it. The cinematography is on point and the review overall was really great and detailed. I'll be back for more for sure.
I've had a 2012 86 for just over 7 years (11/12 build), its stock and has been the entire time. Incredibly, after all this time, and 2 recalls (including one where they replaced engine internals), the car has been absolutely perfect. I STILL do not have any rattles, engine bay looks fantastic, car runs to redline with the same growl, and still makes me smile when I want to put the foot down hard. I've always wanted a bit more power, and maybe some day I'll buy a header or get a tune (or both), but honest to goodness the longer its been now the more I am a little loath to do anything but keep her nice and washed - Its a car I look at and smile at. Suspension is as close to practical perfection as you can get, its not a 'lot more firm' than the new model - I think if you upgrade the primacy tires, that is where you start to lose that comfort + handling dynamic. Oh you will get a lot more grip is you upgrade tires, but its actually the tires that make the car so compliant when new and stock - its those soft sidewalls that give you a nice rubber stop kind of feel going over a bump, instead of that direct bum hitting the road feel you can get with stiff sidewall tires or lowered suspension. I actually this its a bigger part of the reason those tires are on the car than it is for tile slidyness (which honestly you can still do on gripper tires as well). I highly recommend this car as a keeper - stock.
Huge fan of your videos. Despite having no interest in some cars that you review, I watch them simply because I love the content and how your videos are laid out and organized. The attention to detail in the editing is very impressive, and knowing it isn't with $10,000 cameras makes your skills and craft highlighted even more. And I love the dry and random humor in the videos. Keep it up!
I'm harping, but my BRZ has been an epic road trip car. Since it is a lease, nothing much was done to it. One more roadtrip loop coming up and then the 30 months of fun times is over. Why? Because roads all over are getting a little rough for a low vehicle. Give me a Paris-Dakkar ready BRZ and perhaps I would continue. I know, it's anti-slam & anti-stance, but Ralley spec would be a riot.
so glad you went back for a second look at the 86 - your early adoption experience is typical for just about any car yet alone the 86/BRZ/FRS. I had dreamed of owning one for a long time and finally bought a used MY14 GTS Manual with just 15,000km on the clock. This is my midlife crisis car and I love everything about it - it puts a smile on my face just looking at it sitting in my garage. I could crap on for ages about this car but the one thing that I love most about it is that I can truly AFFORD to own one! I can afford to buy it, insure it, run it and even maintain it at home - it is so easy to work on. It is a luxury for us to have a car like this sitting in the garage as a weekend/occasional use sports car so its affordability helped getting the decision to buy one over the line with my wife. Mine will stay stock because I can't justify the expense of modifying it and that suits me just fine, it is a great car out of the box. I am handy behind the wheel but I won't kid myself into believing that I have the driving skill to approach the limits of this car, and going sideways isn't my thing. I threw on a set of Bridgestone Potenza RE003's and the car is all the better for it - turn in and grip have improved. A Mustang would scare the sh#t out of me, and I looked at 350/370Z's as well but I didn't want a grand tourer and these cars are not as affordable as the 86. As you have pointed out in your videos this car has its flaws - all cars do. This car's greatest achievement is that your average Joe like me can afford to have a sports car!!!!
Just picked up an auto on a steal. While I wanted to learn stick, this was the only way I can get into one with my family's blessing. And it's still so fun.
All this thing needs is like 500ccs more displacement. Sad thing is with this lack of updates its death is going to become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Why buy a new one when you can get a used one with the same hardware... especially if you have to void the warranty to get it where you want it to be?
+future62 Yeah I think this will over time become the king of used cars. Considering not much has changed, the motor is solid you can grab a 40k -60k mile 2014 for cheap.
I've seen K24's push 300 whp+. If Honda made, say, a K25 with 12:5 compression ratio, with a 8100r.p.m., direct injection, and more advance V-Tech system, Honda could easily push it 320 horsepower.
Probably wouldn't fit under the hood or pass emissions. Still though an FB25 making ~225HP and 180-190 tq would be good. That's good power out of the box with plenty of headroom for the aftermarket. I've been saying this for years
This is extremely well done. I'm not sure I have fully watched one of your videos before, but it was easily up there with /Drive quality. One of my only critiques would be that the random occasional swear seems jarring in low emotion segments. I only specifically remember you saying "shit box" though. Other than that, make sure you have your script down in a few segments because the occasional um or stutter breaks the true "TV quality" feel, but generally not a big deal. Fantastic work and cinematography and editing, and you definitely deserve more subs than you have.
+802 Garage Thank you, saw your other comment. Try our best to be real and unscripted which it is, I think eventually when this is not a side project things will get better but have to fit this in with a career, gets hard. But thanks for suggestions btw.
savagegeese Oh for sure and believe me take it as positive and constructive criticism. Not trying to be insulting at all though I know tone is hard on here. I think the mechanics points just wasn't perfectly clear to me. Really a great video and awesome quality. Thanks for the reply!
+802 Garage No issue, its good to hear critisism that is helpful for once not just some trolling. Understanding both sides is pretty important which is why your comments are good.
+802 Garage .... The more SG videos you watch, the more you will become addicted. I find almost nothing worth subscribing to on UA-cam, but these guys are something else.
I bought a 2016 FRS in February 2016 so im approaching the one year mark and i dont regret it at all! great car, ive put 40,000KMS on it in 11 months its a wicked fun car to drive, you feel like youre having way too much fun while still staying within he speed limit. I love it.. I Like that this review is with the automatic, but 70% of the time i drive I wish i bought the manual.
Wretched Slippage If I hadn't gotta such a steal of a lifetime on my automatic 15 FRS I would go Manual but as I approach my first year of ownership of it as a DD it has really grown on me have you played around with the sport mode and VSC mode on in the M mode frankly the best overall setting for the tranny the rev match and response is a lot better overall.
Toyolumpia s Oh I've tried every possible situation the tranny can be in. I prefer the full tc off.. like hold the button down for 5 seconds, and in sport mode for when I'm trying to have fun! it's ultra smooth in auto mode when you're just driving around town not pushing it.. it's a great car! I like the auto but I still wish I had the manual. we get the best of both worlds with "manual mode" though.
Dude ... you secretly still love it and you know it will be around haunting you for a long time! ... ps and you know with a coil over, some Cusco bars and a wheel/tire upgrade the balance goes from amazing to ridiculous. Great photo work BTW. ✌️
I bought my FRS new the in June of 2012 after putting down a deposit 6 months earlier and coming from an RX8. Since, I've test driven basically every sports car under $35k used and new trying to find something to replace it. Every car I test drive always puts me back in the FRS. My only real crux with it is the engine has no character and sounds like it's out of a outboard. I can live with the low hp, but why couldn't they just give the engine a lighter fly wheel or spice up the exhaust note a little. I'm closing in on 60k miles, the car has had 4, somewhat hard seasons of autocross put on it, and it still runs and drives like the day I brought it home. It's a hard to beat package. No warranty issues, only oil changes and fuel, and I can squeak out 37 mpg commuting. Now that I'm almost up on my warranty I'm really looking into a header and tune to get some more character and I just order 50 lbs of sound deadening to hopefully quiet the interior a bit. As easy as the car is to fault there are few new cars, if any, that are a better overall package.
$500 open flash tablet . $500 OF header. That will give you around 20 more wheel hp and eliminate the torque dip on 93 obtain. Even with the stock cat back the car will sound a ton better. Run e85 and you will get another 15 or so hp peak. You will get as much as a 35 lb-ft boost at 4000 rpm. Not bad for $1000.
I've been mulling over a used BRZ or Rx8. Do you miss the rx8? I'm aware of the nightmare and upkeep a rotary can be, but I keep telling myself I could maintain an R2.
I would never mod a GT86 BRZ FRS 86. When I first saw the car I was amazed, but after a glance on the specs, watching owners describe the handling, and the engine configuration, the car really is best at stock. If you even like that car. Cars are taste and a personal opinion, so if you are a owner, don't take this personal! Your video on the car is spot on.
Speed AMD960T the car itself is already decent enough for daily driver, though doesn't hurt as an FRS owner to add TRD style lip rear spoiler, JDM 86 LED Headlights sorry those halogen are just total trash and rebadge.
I get the take on as a original refresh of a modern 1986 AE, and most owners (especially those who go full bore modding the car) say the car does have the handling heritage, but just not as good at going sideways. I guess with modern safety regs the car would never handle as "ill" as the original 1986 AE. But that is what made the original AE go sideways better, and more fun, as the car was unstable. I prefer the original 1986 AE over the new one, the new one just feels like a "street cred" looking vehicle, like the infamous toyota celica hairdressers car. in fact, apart from the differences like drivetrain, wheelbase, the car has the same feel!! s565.photobucket.com/user/syahmi6113/media/bodykit-toyota-celica-0003-invader-.jpg.html
Speed AMD960T if it wasn't for that stupid cartoon I would've picked up an AE86 the prices they command many people don't realize RWD Corolla went back far as the early 70's along with the Celica.
Lol yeah, stupid cartoon indeed. There is so much love for that series of cartoon, but I can't even watch one episode lol. Bit cringey a lot of talking and not enough car action. Yeah there is a lot of RWD 70's 80's Mitsubishi Toyota and Nissans. Starion is one, that nobody mentions. probably the name lol..
yeah, but not everybody is willing to buy a new car and invest more money into trying to find balance. A properly balanced vehicle from the factory is far more important than power. Power comes easily enough for those who want it.
illitero I respectfully disagree. Ask Mr. Savagegeese how the horsepower chase went on his FRS. A set of good coilovers are going to cost a lot less than a turbo kit or supercharger. They won't void your power train warranty either.
Well, sure! It's a notion that's down to each person's preference concerning what they would prefer to modify. And I was a subscriber during the tail end of that ish with modifying the FRS he had; unfortunate problems haha. But there were so many things working against that: modifying a non-turbo to turbo, which takes a LOT of work to get done correctly. If I remember correctly, the issues were compounded with using a new kit for a (then) new platform. It's hardly ever easy being out front like that. Overall, coilovers, tires, and modifications to suspension geometry only go so far to gain grip; but there's still going to be the limitations of overall balance of the chassis and weight distribution that will give true character to how a car handles at the limit. That's why I say between power and balance, factory efforts are best put towards balance since it allows for greater capabilities under modification.
By the way, so glad I subscribed. The quality of your screen shots, editing, breathe of coverage, and overall commentary is easily becoming the best on UA-cam. I hope you do a review on on the Honda Accord V6 coupe before production stops. I would be very interested on your synopsis on that particular car.
Heh, I love how he was talking about lack of cargo room and trunk dimensions at the beginning, and I'm sitting here thinking my car has far less than that! It's suprisingly practical, for the type of car it is, not that it's huge deal if it isn't, it's just a nice value-added bonus
Another good vid guys, but still you harp on about the lack of power.I just don't see the issue it's still got 100bhp per litre, more now with the new motor.I've had an S2000 myself and the Torque was utter crap and only started to go above 6000. My 86 is so much better in that respect. Yes we'd all like more, but with the emission restrictions the car companies have these days I think Toyota has done a great job for an Na engine. Look at the 2 litre Mx5, only 160Bhp.We have all become lazy drivers and rely too much on torque from out Turbo Motors.
Makes me miss mine. Great video as always. While I hate the new front styling, I came to the same conclusion as soon as I saw the unveiling, that the developers really listened to the owners and updated so many things the first round owners did aesthetically.
I'm really confused by the mechanic's comments. Subaru focused fully on placing the engine as low and as far back as possible specifically for balance and handling. It has a lower center of gravity than a Ferrari 458 Italia. That is not something you can fix yourself without an engine swap and/or massive fabrication. It has nothing to do with the power output of the engine. If he just means they should make an inline engine instead, that also has very little to do with the total power output. Subaru could easily make the platform more powerful, but it would still come at the added cost of strengthened components, different cams, and lower fuel economy, which isn't acceptable. As the engine sits now, they can add a turbo or super charger, and the engine design and placement doesn't need to be changed.
+802 Garage I cut the following part out after his comments where I quoted Tada Sans comments about wanting to create a balanced chassis to start, because people cant modify that. But the counter point Scott made is other cars similar dont need to have a low CG motor to be fast. The S2000 stock is faster in everyway and the new Miata is pretty close and is also the most raced and widely hailed as most balanced/neutral chassis in the world. (Although slow) Making the 86 fast is expensive, average FI done right is around 6-7k before you even touch suspension. If they started with a higher HP platform even adjusting CG a set of real dampers and proper setup and brakes would be well under 4-5k. And you would still have a drivetrain warranty and less phobias, less drama with tuning, oiling issues etc. Its a counter point, thats it.
Gotcha. Makes a lot of sense, I just don't think the actual issue is engine placement. It is of course the most common complaint though, not enough power. It is still one of the most hailed chassis of all time in terms of cars under $30k or even $50k. Either way it was a great video.
Thank you so much for this I’m so close to purchasing a 2017 86 auto as my daily so that I can store away my 01’ Caprice and save a fuck tonne on fuel, cheers for always bringing nothing but the best content
I've owned FR-S for 3 years now. I drove it though all weather and with dedicated winter tires for Indiana winters. The thing is great, but yes- when it comes to power it really let's you down on a straight road. Autocrossing and driving on curvy back roads- it's the best thing you could ever have. My FRS is being replaced with a C6 Corvette now. The Vette doesn't handle nearly as well as the FRS , but I definitely get the cure in the torque department with LS2! I'm so glad I did not modify the FR-S too much, like you did, as I'd regret it now when the time has come to replace it. Overall, it was a great car for me. Extremely functional and practical as a daily, with tons of room in the inside, and amazing gas mileage. Reliable too- like most Subarus.
Still have my BRZ. It is a good car to experiment on; put in upgrades and minor adjustment to see how it affects the character of the car. Made a lot of mistakes along the way as well. I got brakes that are too big for the car. Wheels the wrong size. Wrong alignment. Lot's of misinformation out there from merchants. Now its finally coming together.. upgrading from KW to Ohlins shocks, getting smaller brakes and wheels (17"). I didn't touch the engine though so no problem there.
Chinaman Champ sounds like every other car lol. As for suspension, that is why I calculate everything just like fat cat and far north racing say to do. It turned out, almost all of the off the shelf components don't use flat ride and all of the off the shelf dampers don't understand the impact of jacking down.
I like your input. I want a BRZ to modify to my tastes, like different rims, my choice of brakes, audio, and other minor things. Most I'd do mechanically would be a cold air intake and an exhaust. Would rather have a stock-like engine to last me a long time, as opposed to doubling the power but cutting the life of the engine dramatically.
Otter Get Up and Ride to be honest these engines are very susceptible to boost since the engine is the same as the 2015+ wrxs... 7-10 ibs of boost on a safe tune would last a long time. and give it that little bit of pep that it needs from factory. all it needs is 250whp and its perfect not to mention those awesome turbo noises hehe
You could add a moderate boost or even just an ECU tune and make a significant difference in the power output, Smooting out that torque dip alone will improve driveablity.
I agree with the motor in this car. The lack of mid range seems to be where it gets its flack. The common mod seems to be a catless header and a tune. It smooths out the torque in the middle and improves drive-ability. Everybody who has driven a 86 with that setup agree's that is how the engine should feel out of the factory.
People trash the practicality of this car but I was a pizza delivery guy in a FR-S for 2 years. I was able to fit 33 Large (18") pizzas in mine for a catering order one time. They completely filled up the trunk, back seat, floorboard, and passenger seat. It was completely filled to the brim.It really helps that the rear seats fold down and It's actually pretty roomy for a 2 seater. That being said, now that I live alone I have since traded it in for a WRX so I can transport more than one of my friends at a time and the two are worlds apart in cargo space. The best way to describe it is that the FR-S/BRZ/86 are literally the line on practically, They are about a practical as the form factor will ever be, but they can't change the fact that they're a 2 seater sports car.
I know you wanted the Automatic. The new stick is fantastic. I drove the 2017 manual BRZ. Not much faster balls out. The shorter gearing and 5 more peak hp do not tell the hole story. There is also more mid range punch and the engine has a much smoother sonic character. That along with the quicker steering, smaller steering wheel, better on center feel and improved highway stability with a smother ride and better interior make the 17 car far more entertaining to drive than its predecessor. In the BRZ they finally eliminated the awful navigation. Sad to see they do not have apple car play or android play. When I drove the 17 I noticed the difference before I left the Subaru lot.
I'd rather see a CD player, HD radio, and premium sound system. That's it. I don't need a cell phone connected to the car when the car was build to DRIVE. However, not having to replace all the speakers and wires and amplifier to get awesome sound would be nice for once.
Til this day, I don't understand why this doesn't come factory with a turbo. A small turbo even. Everybody that's ever driven one has always said if only it had just a bit more power. And while the tuner scene is ripping into it, Toyota doesn't look like it even wants to bother making it easier or friendlier
AF Raider I'm one of the minority few that feels it doesn't really need any more power people are just spoiled these days with smoother powerband. I've DD my 15 FRS Stock on just drop in intake and has enough power for my needs. I came from owning GS400's, G35 Sedan, Civic Si, Celica GT, Turbo Supra. I'd rather have a car I can use it's HP for everyday driving people just need to stop bitching about lack of power already, Jesus Christ there's a freaking Mustang or Hellcat if you bitchy power complainers want power.
Toyolumpia s Understandable. Which I'm sure you're not alone. But then why doesn't Toyota/Subaru have their "Sport" package for those that do want that extra kick? Instead of limiting to just the TRD package
AF Raider simple people aren't going to pay for that kind of money when the market itself is already crowded with high HP cars look at the FA20T issues on the WRX once you reach a certain point. Also your deviating from the original concept of the car remember the original AE86 made a measly 112 HP some of us want to run this car up to 250K or more and still have fun. Remember the car is tribute to the classic RWD fun to drive Japanese classic Toyota/Subaru never said this was gonna be a Mustang/Camaro destroyer.
Toyolumpia s Adding a small turbo wouldn't be pushing the boxer that hard I'd assume. Like I said, a small turbo would be fine adding adding a factory 10-20 hp. And if I'm not mistaken, one of the most sought out mod for the AE86 was a turbo. I'm not asking for this car to push out 400+ out the factory, but something to give it a high end punch that can be satisfying yet reasonable.
I love the fact that your videos aren't interrupted with ads. Does that mean you're not making money? If you ever decide to do that I would still watch.
savagegeese Sick and tired of the stupid boxes clogging up the roads. How many ways can manufacturers make two box shapes? None of them are inspired, beautiful to look at, fun to drive, driver focused, or fuel efficient.
I was a huge manual transmission snob. I then drove a Audi dual clutch and wasn't impressed, was a bit clunky at low speeds, meh.. I also had a chance to drive a Lexus F car on track and on street with and loved the trans, was very smooth and pleasant at low speeds and was very fast and crisp on track. I would like to drive a Porsche PDK..
When I heard journalists say that the PDK can "read your mind", I didn't really believe them. Then I drove a Macan GTS...Ho. Lee. Shit. I'm coming in hot into a corner and between the time I lifted off the gas and *barely started* to apply brake pressure, it downshifted 3 TIMES! The shifts were lightning quick and, as a result, allow you to explore every facet of your car's performance. It's truly an amazing experience, and unfortunately it's ruined every other auto transmission for me since. Nothing on the market holds a candle to it.
Any of the dual clutch boxes will ultimately have to rely on a computer to engage and disengage the engine from the transmission at crawling speeds, and I'm not sure any auto would do better than good ol' left foot in that scenario.
i am so glad they cant use salt on the roads in my part of alaska. these cars with the right tires do pretty good in winter a Lexus version with a new front end and maybe the NX200t 2.0 turbo and auto transmission would be fantastic more so for the much needed torque and smoothness being disabled and not being disabled to drive a stick well any more i am glad to see this review of an automatic gt86 and would consider one thank you for the excellent video
Interesting fact about the several modifications to the front shocks and springs. Great Review. We love the cars with just a little bit of added power - We like them with Flex Fuel , I/H/E and a good tune - thats the power level it should have came with stock - I also think they built this car at this price point so it could be modified to an owners likings - Again great video
Many people say it needs more power. But it's enough power to drive in the city. I tested to drive New BRZ MT, and it was very fun, especially MT is good. Next car I will buy is family car, so I can't buy 86/BRZ. But, I want to buy it as my second car!!
once you are up to 70 mph on a regular road, The only thing left is not slowing down. That is only to do with balance, low center of gravity, and the tires remaining planted. 205 hp out of 2.0 liters with the pro-environmental tunes they come with is amazing in 2017.
Dorian Gray I agree man. Had the car for two years and on a windy highway there is nothing that beats it or even comes close and its about as communicative as you would want a car to be. Anything more would be a Lotus Elise.
here's a good idea for toyota and subaru have the next gen 86 come with a N/A flat 6 making around 300hp and 280 tq rev to 7.5k and then it would truly be a poor man's porsche, and then we would finally have the car that we've all been waiting for
Or just get a used Cayman? If they made a flat 6, that's going to be flamed by every car guy because that's against international sports car policy 🤣😂🤣😂 (no one can use flat 6 in a sports car but Porsche, the secret rule or some shit... )
+Anthony Mizono You will start to see the 4k getting better as well. I dont talk about it ever but, will start shooting 10bit 4k and all the sub cameras will be in 4k as well. The upcoming Volvo S90 video you will see a new cam for POV in 4k which is a massive improvement while extremely stable.
I am a Toyota man. My only complaint is they have not followed up on the Mk 4 Supra yet. I think the 86 is a great car for what it is. It is a reliable sporty car for young people. It is great when you understand the what it is for.
Mrdtruck88 they should leave the supra alone... leave it the legend it was, all they will do is make a mk5 and ruin it and that will kill the fun in owning a mk4
no, whether the mk5 sucks or supercedes the mk4 (or even stays the same performance wise with a modern body and engine... as the mk4 chassis is plenty capable of over 200mph on a design started in the late 80s.) the mk4 will not be any less of a legend regardless of what happens. the mere mention of a mk5 will make the mk4 go up in price. just as the NSX did.
It's painful to listen to Americans saying FRS has been rebranded... No mofos, it was 86 that was badged differently. Now you are just seeing the normal car that everyone else has been getting. This car has always been an 86. It was designed based in hachiroku legacy.
have this car in halon white automatic and its just a really fun car to drive \ toss around. no complaints from this owner. and it has a trunk and back seats for my gym bags.
I got a manual 2017 BRZ in October 2016, and I daily drive it to school and that's about it. Put a catback on it and left the rest untouched. It is PERFECT for puttering around and spirited street driving. I love the lack of grip because I don't push the car too much, and slipping around is fun. With the 2017 revisions including the bump in torque, the shortened gears (biggest thing), and the softer suspension, I couldn't see myself wanting to change the car in any other way besides maybe giving me Apple CarPlay pls. It is the perfect "sports" car for puttering around in something that FEELS special, but isn't.
Ugly AF new front bumper. But the Toyota emblems are a lot nicer than the Scion emblems at least. The uninspiring Subaru/truck engine and torque dip keeps me from ever buying it though. If only they stuck a good Toyota engine in it instead..maybe some kind of modern & updated version of the 4AGE or 2ZZGE (like you mentioned).. high rev, decent power and super linear like a Honda engine, and most importantly no torque dip. I agree...that Subaru engine kills it (not the good "kills it"). A new Toyota 4-cylinder NA engine with 220-260hp, 8k (or even 9k) redline would make this thing a legend.
Less Talk, More Delicious true. I actually like the idea of the car; compact rear wheel drive roadster coupe... but Subaru 2.0 L-boxer are known for their head gaskets. If this was a real Toyota engine, it would be a super reliable, high-reving, engine with a timing chain :p
Great as always. I imagine you have a lot more in the shop footage. Does Scott get to drive these? I wonder if by looking at the suspension system of these vehicles you review he can predict how it might handle or what he doesn't like. You both commented on how you'd have modded the car if you got it as a young person. You weren't lying. A quick search shows a lot of videos of people modding the hell out of this car. So, what makes the stock hardware special? What would you mod and why? What does Scott's experience as a mechanic and someone who knows a lot about cars allow him to say about how this car holds up? I love your videos. There is literally a Genesis sedan sitting in my driveway right now because of you. Thanks! Keep it up.
I appreciate you taking the time to review automatics too. I'd like to own a stick shift but living in a congested urban area sucks all the fun out of the experience when you're using it as a daily driver!
Am totally happy with my 1988 turbo Fiero GT with 300HP that I bought for five grand. Drives and corners so well. Makes many modern cars look bad. A blast to drive.
savagegeese sounds good hopefully they let you even though there's tons of reviews out there would be great to here yours and turbowskies opinion on one
Nice review in depth review lots of detail and I have watched a lot. Thanks for highlighting differences in the 2017model, gonna get a GT86 to replace my Celica ST230 in a year or two.
How do you "work on balance" yourself? It doesn't work like that. If they could throw a 3 liter, 300 horsepower H-6 in this, it might be perfect, but not a freaking I-4...
+Sterling Roberts not talking about a V6 talking about a 4-cylinder with a higher CG like the S2000 and Miata as mentioned they don't have a problem with balance. There are plenty of 4-cylinder Motors that make well over 240 horsepower. Balance can easily be attained with different suspension tires sway bars alignment it doesn't all have to be about the position of the motor.
H stands for horizontal; no one's talking about a V6 here. You'd be a special kind of dumb to say that the car's handling isn't better with a lower center of gravity. I'm acutely aware that balance can be achieved in many ways, but to say that it can be just as good(without other tradeoffs) as an inline-4 is lunacy. I'm just saying that an H-6 would make an absolutely killer car, albeit probably cost $30,000+. My main problem with the video is clearly stated in my initial comment: The level of handling the 86 offers cannot just "be worked on" without sacrificing either ride quality or gobs of money. Go make a mustang anything handle like this car and tell me I'm wrong. You're buying a quality platform, not just an engine with wheels. You say there are plenty of 4 cylinder "motors"(no capitalization needed) that make "well over' 240 horsepower, so I assume you're referring to the S2000's K20? That car, especially when accounting for inflation, is WAY more expensive. I'm just assuming you're not referring to engines utilizing forced induction. Now, if you're talking about I-4s with more than 2.0 liters, sure, but there's not "plenty" of 240+ 2.0 liter naturally aspirated 4 cylinders out there. So please, list these engines you speak of.
The S2000 has a F20, not a K20. And it doesn't matter how much it cost when it was brand new. The benchmark is still comparing the 86 platform to a 10 year old honda which is sad. It can't live up to it PERIOD.
Mixed up the letters there, but it seems you understood what I meant. Adjusting for inflation, the S2000 is a $45,000 car. You say the 86 sucks because it doesn't do what that car did 15 years ago even though it costs almost half the price. That's not even mentioning that the 86 is better than the S2000 in many ways.
It doesn't even matter what it would cost today with inflation. You aren't going to go out and find one that costs 45,000 and that's the point. You would spent literally half what it costs a BRZ for a clean low miles AP1 or spend a few grand extra over that and get a 04-05, with the leftover change you could do whatever you want with the car and start competing against cars way out of your class. What matters is right here right now if you went out with 30 grand cash, what could you buy.
Everyone always complains about the power of this car but what everyone fails to realize is that this car is a great daily driver and provides phenomenal gas mileage for a sports car & also looks very good. Yes it's not super fast but it's a quick car that will definitely beat your average Honda Accord or Civic while providing good gas mileage & Also since these cars are made by Toyota/Subaru they are some of the most reliable cars made by the most reliable companies that provide great warranties and hold their value really well. Am i the only one who thinks about this ?
Faraz Feizi I'd get it for the same reasons! :)
king F phenomenal mpg?! Not really. I have a 2013 and get 27.5 mpg. That's coming from a 98 Nissan 200 SX that got about 38~40 mpg. Now that's phenomenal had mileage.
Also a 200 hp engine in the BRZ/86/FRS will be eaten alive by Hondas V6 Accords, which have 272 hp and 252 ft-lbs of torque. Even the Civic Si has 205 hp and weighs less. But the point is yes, its a fairly quick car that is fun to drive.
It's not nearly as reliable as people think. Endless quality little issues, seats, seat belt, random knobs not working well, lots of ppl have engine issues in the early models, etc etc.
Their brands are known for being reliable, but not necessarily this car.
I see it as " if you are going to get a civic anyways and don't live in winter area or can deal with winter driving, why not get something that looks better and more fun in summer"
I am averaging 20 mpg in the winter 100% city.
you are by far the best, most effective and arguably the best automotive review channel on UA-cam. please know that there are plenty of people who follow you who appreciates the countless hours of video editing, takes, and your thoughtful videography. big fan of yours, scott' and your honest 'tell it like it is' talk.
Doug DeMuro does a great job as well.
Lifted_Above Demuro is awful in my opinion. He often misses obvious things, isn’t at all consistent in his opinions, doesn’t educate himself on the vehicles he reviews. He is fun to watch, but nothing like this quality.
how well does it deliver tofu?
VERY
Eurobeat intensifies...
@Chang Ye _ You are on the wrong table, no tofu here, only Sushi :)
No, but Takumi’s student drives a new 86 :)
I think the most important aspect subaru and Toyota give to the engine. Is that all though everyone complains about the lack of power. They made it very fluent to turbo or supercharge. This gives everyone an option. Remember, they are trying to make a very affordable fun sports car. Why turbo it and hack up the price. It's best that the younger audience can afford to get into this car, have fun without all the speeding tickets, and a few years down the line when they have better jobs and saved up the money, they can revitalize all the fun by boosting a car that is quite capable of handling the power stock
Very good point man hoping this will be mine here another few years
Devin Attia plus FI adds weight by added parts as turbo, piping and cooling etc. Then things wear out faster too. I’m happy this car exists and I want one still
It's actually not fluent to add forced induction at all. It runs hot and has very high compression with little space in the bay.
I like how you blur out speedometer when you exceed speed limit :D
Used to go to school with a kid that had a purple cavalier, I think it was the same color as Scott's Camaro. I can still hear his voice "it's not purple, it's Hawaiian Orchid Metallic!"
tomtom255 I'm lmao
Both my daughters had cavaliers. When they were done I sold both cars to a guy at work. He drove both to over 300k . I only remember putting 2 heater cars in each car.No other work and he changed the oil once every year.
Butt crack
It's eggplant.
Dope content sausagegeese.
9/11 insidejob *grinder
Butts
Regarding interior space, I've put 112k on my FRS. I'm 63 years old, 6'1" and 250 lbs. I fit in that car like a glove. Ingress and egress is a snap. It's absurdly comfortable.
Rob Wells has it been reliable for you so far? 112k is the highest mileage I've heard of for these cars!
Solid. The only problem I've had is the water leaking in the tail lights. And that was because it was ALWAYS parked outside and we get some absolute monsoon rainstorms around here. Now that I park at an enclosed garage, it is not an issue.
It's now 113k miles and I have yet to replace so much as a spark plug or a brake pad. I have gone through seven sets of tires, though. I corner pretty hard, and there is a LOT of opportunity to do it. I am hearing a little more wind noise than I would like from the back top of the driver’s side door window when it is rolled up, but I think I can fix that.
Rob Wells Sounds like a simple door seal replacement job and you're good again.
SYM Films the GT86/BRZ is the most reliable car in both Toyota and Subaru's lineups, it is absurdly reliable unless you basically try to destroy it like the people that do clutch dumps all day and whine about having to replace a throwout bearing because of their bad driving.
@@nunyabusiness896 hahaha. Pity to the car when get a bad driver.
Truth: Drive this car, auto or manual, on the mountains in Japan and the car is absolutely perfect just the way it is. We rented one to drive in Gunma (Mt. Haruna) for a full day, and again to cruise around Mt. Fuji for a full day and hit up the passes along the way. I have driven 400-500HP Ferarri, Lamborghini on track but nothing, absolutely nothing compared to driving this car in the mountains. Best driving ever. If you travel to Japan you can rent these from Toyota, which is amazing.
Prax I love mountain drives. scenic and fun.
Did you encounter Takumi's Hachis Roku delivering tofu?
But....wouldn't that whole experience have been a good percentage-wise more enjoyable and memorable with 275 hp and 300 ft-lb torque from this thing?
Lifted_Above No, because in the mountains too much power would just make it hard to control. Many sports cars nowadays have more power than you can even use at legal speeds, you spend a ton of money for something with no use anywhere but a track, at which point you're better of just getting a race kart because it's way faster than any street car.
Well that's the case for most large SUV and trucks, especially with V8 engines. Who uses all 350-450 hp in those things every day?
I must love mine so much because price mattered, gas mileage mattered, and fun mattered. I commute 150 miles a day on KY twisties. I've gone 18 miles on my commute without seeing another car. The only modification I've ever done is the tires. RE11's and PSS's are both great. The former is best in dry and the latter is best in wet, but I love 'em both on this car. I cannot say enough positive stuff about this car, even after 112k miles. I just bought a set of plugs since I figure it's time. I'll have to replace the brakes soon too, probably. Oh, and it is a manual.
I am 6.5 feet tall 205 pounds. I am just getting ready for some RE11's.
In dry, not even the Michelin PSS's are as good, though they come really close. It's not just the stickyness. The sidewalls just don't give. It's like riding on rails. i.e. I think you will like them.:)
Rob Wells glad to see owners like you really enjoy the car for what it is my 15 is at 45K I can't wait to put PSS once this original tires go.
How many brake pads have you replaced? I'm on 60k with original pads, but I do a lot of highway driving and I'm good at flowing with traffic and revv match downshifting, so I rarely need to brake.
You have a 17’ 86 ?
'You buy it for the driving experience'
Couldn't agree more since 2013.
I bought a 2016 auto FRS and I love the car. I’ve had a lot of small cars, things like the 2g eclipse, celica gts, etc and a mix of both manual and auto (actually traded in a 5 speed 2017 lancer) and I absolutely love this car in auto. Life situations dictated that I got the auto, my son needs to learn to drive and doesn’t feel comfortable with manual, which is fine seeing how the automotive industry seems to be heading. This is the first car I’ve owned that I think I’ll end up keeping until I die. I just enjoy it for what it is, I’m not racing anyone, I don’t go to the track, but I wake up every Sunday at 5am to have some alone time just driving on back roads twisties by myself and love it so much. It’s a great daily, costs me nothing to get to work and back, and it’s just a joy to own. I like it a lot, and I think for someone that can’t have a manual for some reason, this is absolutely a great car to own in auto.
I really believe that you have the best reviews on the internet! Keep up the good work. Thanks!
The dry humor and all lol. Solid video, great shots and all, gotta love the new 86.
Okay, I have never seen your channel before and this was in my recommended section.
I don't regret clicking on it. The cinematography is on point and the review overall was really great and detailed. I'll be back for more for sure.
These reviews hit the spot for what I am interested in knowing.
That brief detour to talk about the iroc is one of the many reasons why I'm subscribed to this channel
Beautiful cinematography. It never goes unnoticed SavageG. Just pronounce Alcantara correctly.
You mean alcentrararareia isn't correct?
Haha he has a different pronunciation every time he says it.
Josh Lee mm
ALALALACANTERUA!
You know, you should just keep this as a running joke for the remainder of your videos 😏
I've had a 2012 86 for just over 7 years (11/12 build), its stock and has been the entire time.
Incredibly, after all this time, and 2 recalls (including one where they replaced engine internals), the car has been absolutely perfect.
I STILL do not have any rattles, engine bay looks fantastic, car runs to redline with the same growl, and still makes me smile when I want to put the foot down hard.
I've always wanted a bit more power, and maybe some day I'll buy a header or get a tune (or both), but honest to goodness the longer its been now the more I am a little loath to do anything but keep her nice and washed - Its a car I look at and smile at.
Suspension is as close to practical perfection as you can get, its not a 'lot more firm' than the new model - I think if you upgrade the primacy tires, that is where you start to lose that comfort + handling dynamic. Oh you will get a lot more grip is you upgrade tires, but its actually the tires that make the car so compliant when new and stock - its those soft sidewalls that give you a nice rubber stop kind of feel going over a bump, instead of that direct bum hitting the road feel you can get with stiff sidewall tires or lowered suspension. I actually this its a bigger part of the reason those tires are on the car than it is for tile slidyness (which honestly you can still do on gripper tires as well).
I highly recommend this car as a keeper - stock.
Good write up. thank you
Finally, a cool and interesting car instead of a Family Utility Vehicle.
Huge fan of your videos. Despite having no interest in some cars that you review, I watch them simply because I love the content and how your videos are laid out and organized. The attention to detail in the editing is very impressive, and knowing it isn't with $10,000 cameras makes your skills and craft highlighted even more. And I love the dry and random humor in the videos. Keep it up!
Literally the most neutral car review ive ever watched....
*subs*
Without a doubt, the SavageGeese logo opening and closing shots are the best of any motor review channel. They stand out in any company. Excellent
I'm harping, but my BRZ has been an epic road trip car. Since it is a lease, nothing much was done to it. One more roadtrip loop coming up and then the 30 months of fun times is over. Why? Because roads all over are getting a little rough for a low vehicle.
Give me a Paris-Dakkar ready BRZ and perhaps I would continue. I know, it's anti-slam & anti-stance, but Ralley spec would be a riot.
why is this review so sad?..
Blind Boiz because it's an automatic
in the name of 86, they don't drove the way it meant to be drive
ariff zakaria you're supposed to drive them sideways
Because of the suffering the host experienced being a first 2013 FRS owner attempting FI when there was little support.
rizdraver What’s FI?
so glad you went back for a second look at the 86 - your early adoption experience is typical for just about any car yet alone the 86/BRZ/FRS. I had dreamed of owning one for a long time and finally bought a used MY14 GTS Manual with just 15,000km on the clock. This is my midlife crisis car and I love everything about it - it puts a smile on my face just looking at it sitting in my garage.
I could crap on for ages about this car but the one thing that I love most about it is that I can truly AFFORD to own one! I can afford to buy it, insure it, run it and even maintain it at home - it is so easy to work on. It is a luxury for us to have a car like this sitting in the garage as a weekend/occasional use sports car so its affordability helped getting the decision to buy one over the line with my wife. Mine will stay stock because I can't justify the expense of modifying it and that suits me just fine, it is a great car out of the box.
I am handy behind the wheel but I won't kid myself into believing that I have the driving skill to approach the limits of this car, and going sideways isn't my thing. I threw on a set of Bridgestone Potenza RE003's and the car is all the better for it - turn in and grip have improved. A Mustang would scare the sh#t out of me, and I looked at 350/370Z's as well but I didn't want a grand tourer and these cars are not as affordable as the 86.
As you have pointed out in your videos this car has its flaws - all cars do. This car's greatest achievement is that your average Joe like me can afford to have a sports car!!!!
Just picked up an auto on a steal. While I wanted to learn stick, this was the only way I can get into one with my family's blessing. And it's still so fun.
Should be fun to own, good job getting one used.
your monotone voice actually gets trumped by how objective your car reviews are - so i keep watching your videos. cheers m8
Best channel ever. The shop section and the driving experience is all good yoo....
All this thing needs is like 500ccs more displacement. Sad thing is with this lack of updates its death is going to become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Why buy a new one when you can get a used one with the same hardware... especially if you have to void the warranty to get it where you want it to be?
+future62 Yeah I think this will over time become the king of used cars. Considering not much has changed, the motor is solid you can grab a 40k -60k mile 2014 for cheap.
I've seen K24's push 300 whp+. If Honda made, say, a K25 with 12:5 compression ratio, with a 8100r.p.m., direct injection, and more advance V-Tech system, Honda could easily push it 320 horsepower.
future62 I agree. More torque and power without forced injection would make this car way more fun.
Probably wouldn't fit under the hood or pass emissions. Still though an FB25 making ~225HP and 180-190 tq would be good. That's good power out of the box with plenty of headroom for the aftermarket. I've been saying this for years
they need a ej model. Ive never been fan of the fa, especially when they put them in the wrx in 2015.
damn that is the best car cinematography ive seen in a while. truly beautiful
Great vid. The beginning was outstanding.
This is extremely well done. I'm not sure I have fully watched one of your videos before, but it was easily up there with /Drive quality. One of my only critiques would be that the random occasional swear seems jarring in low emotion segments. I only specifically remember you saying "shit box" though. Other than that, make sure you have your script down in a few segments because the occasional um or stutter breaks the true "TV quality" feel, but generally not a big deal. Fantastic work and cinematography and editing, and you definitely deserve more subs than you have.
+802 Garage Thank you, saw your other comment. Try our best to be real and unscripted which it is, I think eventually when this is not a side project things will get better but have to fit this in with a career, gets hard. But thanks for suggestions btw.
savagegeese Oh for sure and believe me take it as positive and constructive criticism. Not trying to be insulting at all though I know tone is hard on here. I think the mechanics points just wasn't perfectly clear to me. Really a great video and awesome quality. Thanks for the reply!
+802 Garage No issue, its good to hear critisism that is helpful for once not just some trolling. Understanding both sides is pretty important which is why your comments are good.
Well thanks. Glad you took it the right way. I'll be sure to sub and watch for more of your content. :)
+802 Garage .... The more SG videos you watch, the more you will become addicted. I find almost nothing worth subscribing to on UA-cam, but these guys are something else.
That intro video was dope as fuck. Beautiful!
I bought a 2016 FRS in February 2016 so im approaching the one year mark and i dont regret it at all! great car, ive put 40,000KMS on it in 11 months its a wicked fun car to drive, you feel like youre having way too much fun while still staying within he speed limit. I love it.. I Like that this review is with the automatic, but 70% of the time i drive I wish i bought the manual.
Wretched Slippage If I hadn't gotta such a steal of a lifetime on my automatic 15 FRS I would go Manual but as I approach my first year of ownership of it as a DD it has really grown on me have you played around with the sport mode and VSC mode on in the M mode frankly the best overall setting for the tranny the rev match and response is a lot better overall.
Toyolumpia s Oh I've tried every possible situation the tranny can be in. I prefer the full tc off.. like hold the button down for 5 seconds, and in sport mode for when I'm trying to have fun! it's ultra smooth in auto mode when you're just driving around town not pushing it.. it's a great car! I like the auto but I still wish I had the manual. we get the best of both worlds with "manual mode" though.
Dude ... you secretly still love it and you know it will be around haunting you for a long time! ... ps and you know with a coil over, some Cusco bars and a wheel/tire upgrade the balance goes from amazing to ridiculous. Great photo work BTW. ✌️
What a joy ! you produce extremely informative, entertaining & quality content than most of the youtubers ...your channel should he one of the top.
I bought my FRS new the in June of 2012 after putting down a deposit 6 months earlier and coming from an RX8. Since, I've test driven basically every sports car under $35k used and new trying to find something to replace it. Every car I test drive always puts me back in the FRS. My only real crux with it is the engine has no character and sounds like it's out of a outboard. I can live with the low hp, but why couldn't they just give the engine a lighter fly wheel or spice up the exhaust note a little. I'm closing in on 60k miles, the car has had 4, somewhat hard seasons of autocross put on it, and it still runs and drives like the day I brought it home. It's a hard to beat package. No warranty issues, only oil changes and fuel, and I can squeak out 37 mpg commuting. Now that I'm almost up on my warranty I'm really looking into a header and tune to get some more character and I just order 50 lbs of sound deadening to hopefully quiet the interior a bit. As easy as the car is to fault there are few new cars, if any, that are a better overall package.
RMZ298 Why not go to a cold air intake and a TRD exhaust to make it sound better... a carbon hood with a scoop that lets some noise out is cool too!
$500 open flash tablet . $500 OF header. That will give you around 20 more wheel hp and eliminate the torque dip on 93 obtain. Even with the stock cat back the car will sound a ton better. Run e85 and you will get another 15 or so hp peak. You will get as much as a 35 lb-ft boost at 4000 rpm. Not bad for $1000.
I've been mulling over a used BRZ or Rx8. Do you miss the rx8? I'm aware of the nightmare and upkeep a rotary can be, but I keep telling myself I could maintain an R2.
I would never mod a GT86 BRZ FRS 86. When I first saw the car I was amazed, but after a glance on the specs, watching owners describe the handling, and the engine configuration, the car really is best at stock. If you even like that car.
Cars are taste and a personal opinion, so if you are a owner, don't take this personal!
Your video on the car is spot on.
Speed AMD960T the car itself is already decent enough for daily driver, though doesn't hurt as an FRS owner to add TRD style lip rear spoiler, JDM 86 LED Headlights sorry those halogen are just total trash and rebadge.
I get the take on as a original refresh of a modern 1986 AE, and most owners (especially those who go full bore modding the car) say the car does have the handling heritage, but just not as good at going sideways. I guess with modern safety regs the car would never handle as "ill" as the original 1986 AE. But that is what made the original AE go sideways better, and more fun, as the car was unstable.
I prefer the original 1986 AE over the new one, the new one just feels like a "street cred" looking vehicle, like the infamous toyota celica hairdressers car.
in fact, apart from the differences like drivetrain, wheelbase, the car has the same feel!!
s565.photobucket.com/user/syahmi6113/media/bodykit-toyota-celica-0003-invader-.jpg.html
Speed AMD960T if it wasn't for that stupid cartoon I would've picked up an AE86 the prices they command many people don't realize RWD Corolla went back far as the early 70's along with the Celica.
Lol yeah, stupid cartoon indeed. There is so much love for that series of cartoon, but I can't even watch one episode lol. Bit cringey a lot of talking and not enough car action.
Yeah there is a lot of RWD 70's 80's Mitsubishi Toyota and Nissans. Starion is one, that nobody mentions. probably the name lol..
what is your 5 most favorite cars?
Strong point by Turbowski at the end. I'd much rather tune and mod the suspension myself. Give me the right motor to begin with.
yeah, but not everybody is willing to buy a new car and invest more money into trying to find balance. A properly balanced vehicle from the factory is far more important than power. Power comes easily enough for those who want it.
that's kinda what the guys @ toyota thought. power is after market stuff since day 1.
illitero I respectfully disagree. Ask Mr. Savagegeese how the horsepower chase went on his FRS. A set of good coilovers are going to cost a lot less than a turbo kit or supercharger. They won't void your power train warranty either.
Well, sure! It's a notion that's down to each person's preference concerning what they would prefer to modify. And I was a subscriber during the tail end of that ish with modifying the FRS he had; unfortunate problems haha. But there were so many things working against that: modifying a non-turbo to turbo, which takes a LOT of work to get done correctly. If I remember correctly, the issues were compounded with using a new kit for a (then) new platform. It's hardly ever easy being out front like that.
Overall, coilovers, tires, and modifications to suspension geometry only go so far to gain grip; but there's still going to be the limitations of overall balance of the chassis and weight distribution that will give true character to how a car handles at the limit. That's why I say between power and balance, factory efforts are best put towards balance since it allows for greater capabilities under modification.
Just buy an LS3 and build everything from the ground up! I'd like to see that. Would be pretty freaking cool.
Great review! You and Nick Murray have the best car review videos on UA-cam!
I love the underlined and pessimism of this Channel, lol. Seriously.
Your video works is top notch and above the rest of any car reviewers out there!
By the way, so glad I subscribed. The quality of your screen shots, editing, breathe of coverage, and overall commentary is easily becoming the best on UA-cam. I hope you do a review on on the Honda Accord V6 coupe before production stops. I would be very interested on your synopsis on that particular car.
Hell, at one point he owned a 7th gen Accord Coupe V6 6MT. Doesn't talk about it much though.
Heh, I love how he was talking about lack of cargo room and trunk dimensions at the beginning, and I'm sitting here thinking my car has far less than that! It's suprisingly practical, for the type of car it is, not that it's huge deal if it isn't, it's just a nice value-added bonus
Another good vid guys, but still you harp on about the lack of power.I just don't see the issue it's still got 100bhp per litre, more now with the new motor.I've had an S2000 myself and the Torque was utter crap and only started to go above 6000. My 86 is so much better in that respect. Yes we'd all like more, but with the emission restrictions the car companies have these days I think Toyota has done a great job for an Na engine. Look at the 2 litre Mx5, only 160Bhp.We have all become lazy drivers and rely too much on torque from out Turbo Motors.
+1.. One of the very best, and the few tier one UA-cam automotive video journalists. .. Where ya been?
The 86 has never been about power. They did a great job maintaining the spirit of the original.
Moon Kawika Exactly. Like the Miata, Celica, and the S2000; It's about overall driving pleasure not just and only raw power.
Makes me miss mine. Great video as always. While I hate the new front styling, I came to the same conclusion as soon as I saw the unveiling, that the developers really listened to the owners and updated so many things the first round owners did aesthetically.
I'm really confused by the mechanic's comments. Subaru focused fully on placing the engine as low and as far back as possible specifically for balance and handling. It has a lower center of gravity than a Ferrari 458 Italia. That is not something you can fix yourself without an engine swap and/or massive fabrication. It has nothing to do with the power output of the engine. If he just means they should make an inline engine instead, that also has very little to do with the total power output. Subaru could easily make the platform more powerful, but it would still come at the added cost of strengthened components, different cams, and lower fuel economy, which isn't acceptable. As the engine sits now, they can add a turbo or super charger, and the engine design and placement doesn't need to be changed.
+802 Garage I cut the following part out after his comments where I quoted Tada Sans comments about wanting to create a balanced chassis to start, because people cant modify that. But the counter point Scott made is other cars similar dont need to have a low CG motor to be fast. The S2000 stock is faster in everyway and the new Miata is pretty close and is also the most raced and widely hailed as most balanced/neutral chassis in the world. (Although slow) Making the 86 fast is expensive, average FI done right is around 6-7k before you even touch suspension. If they started with a higher HP platform even adjusting CG a set of real dampers and proper setup and brakes would be well under 4-5k. And you would still have a drivetrain warranty and less phobias, less drama with tuning, oiling issues etc. Its a counter point, thats it.
Gotcha. Makes a lot of sense, I just don't think the actual issue is engine placement. It is of course the most common complaint though, not enough power. It is still one of the most hailed chassis of all time in terms of cars under $30k or even $50k. Either way it was a great video.
Great honest review. I always enjoy your reviews.
Damn bruh 1am launch time? I guess it's good for the night owls like me
Thank you so much for this I’m so close to purchasing a 2017 86 auto as my daily so that I can store away my 01’ Caprice and save a fuck tonne on fuel, cheers for always bringing nothing but the best content
I've owned FR-S for 3 years now. I drove it though all weather and with dedicated winter tires for Indiana winters. The thing is great, but yes- when it comes to power it really let's you down on a straight road. Autocrossing and driving on curvy back roads- it's the best thing you could ever have.
My FRS is being replaced with a C6 Corvette now. The Vette doesn't handle nearly as well as the FRS , but I definitely get the cure in the torque department with LS2! I'm so glad I did not modify the FR-S too much, like you did, as I'd regret it now when the time has come to replace it. Overall, it was a great car for me. Extremely functional and practical as a daily, with tons of room in the inside, and amazing gas mileage. Reliable too- like most Subarus.
NemanjaGuitar or you can get another one later and swap the LS2 and be done for the day fits right at home with the chassis.
god I love your edits and transition and video composition, color correction ALL OF IT. SUBBED!
Still have my BRZ. It is a good car to experiment on; put in upgrades and minor adjustment to see how it affects the character of the car. Made a lot of mistakes along the way as well. I got brakes that are too big for the car. Wheels the wrong size. Wrong alignment. Lot's of misinformation out there from merchants.
Now its finally coming together.. upgrading from KW to Ohlins shocks, getting smaller brakes and wheels (17"). I didn't touch the engine though so no problem there.
Chinaman Champ sounds like every other car lol. As for suspension, that is why I calculate everything just like fat cat and far north racing say to do. It turned out, almost all of the off the shelf components don't use flat ride and all of the off the shelf dampers don't understand the impact of jacking down.
Chinaman Champ yeah, but do you vape while you drive? That's the real question....
I like your input. I want a BRZ to modify to my tastes, like different rims, my choice of brakes, audio, and other minor things. Most I'd do mechanically would be a cold air intake and an exhaust. Would rather have a stock-like engine to last me a long time, as opposed to doubling the power but cutting the life of the engine dramatically.
Otter Get Up and Ride to be honest these engines are very susceptible to boost since the engine is the same as the 2015+ wrxs... 7-10 ibs of boost on a safe tune would last a long time. and give it that little bit of pep that it needs from factory. all it needs is 250whp and its perfect not to mention those awesome turbo noises hehe
You could add a moderate boost or even just an ECU tune and make a significant difference in the power output, Smooting out that torque dip alone will improve driveablity.
I agree with the motor in this car. The lack of mid range seems to be where it gets its flack. The common mod seems to be a catless header and a tune. It smooths out the torque in the middle and improves drive-ability.
Everybody who has driven a 86 with that setup agree's that is how the engine should feel out of the factory.
Notice me you magestic duck
newballin oh you are mistaken; he's savage not majestic, which means your days are numbered bruh!
He will find you, he wont stop.
@@savagegeese time to buy the new 86
People trash the practicality of this car but I was a pizza delivery guy in a FR-S for 2 years. I was able to fit 33 Large (18") pizzas in mine for a catering order one time. They completely filled up the trunk, back seat, floorboard, and passenger seat. It was completely filled to the brim.It really helps that the rear seats fold down and It's actually pretty roomy for a 2 seater. That being said, now that I live alone I have since traded it in for a WRX so I can transport more than one of my friends at a time and the two are worlds apart in cargo space. The best way to describe it is that the FR-S/BRZ/86 are literally the line on practically, They are about a practical as the form factor will ever be, but they can't change the fact that they're a 2 seater sports car.
I love the sarcasm in these videos. Lol!!
Great golden time cinematography! Gotta love natural lighting
+Paul Kim Yeah, makes everything look good.
I know you wanted the Automatic. The new stick is fantastic. I drove the 2017 manual BRZ. Not much faster balls out. The shorter gearing and 5 more peak hp do not tell the hole story. There is also more mid range punch and the engine has a much smoother sonic character. That along with the quicker steering, smaller steering wheel, better on center feel and improved highway stability with a smother ride and better interior make the 17 car far more entertaining to drive than its predecessor. In the BRZ they finally eliminated the awful navigation. Sad to see they do not have apple car play or android play. When I drove the 17 I noticed the difference before I left the Subaru lot.
I'd rather see a CD player, HD radio, and premium sound system. That's it. I don't need a cell phone connected to the car when the car was build to DRIVE. However, not having to replace all the speakers and wires and amplifier to get awesome sound would be nice for once.
2018 has Apple car play
Fantastically well filmed.
Til this day, I don't understand why this doesn't come factory with a turbo. A small turbo even. Everybody that's ever driven one has always said if only it had just a bit more power. And while the tuner scene is ripping into it, Toyota doesn't look like it even wants to bother making it easier or friendlier
AF Raider I'm one of the minority few that feels it doesn't really need any more power people are just spoiled these days with smoother powerband. I've DD my 15 FRS Stock on just drop in intake and has enough power for my needs. I came from owning GS400's, G35 Sedan, Civic Si, Celica GT, Turbo Supra. I'd rather have a car I can use it's HP for everyday driving people just need to stop bitching about lack of power already, Jesus Christ there's a freaking Mustang or Hellcat if you bitchy power complainers want power.
Toyolumpia s Understandable. Which I'm sure you're not alone. But then why doesn't Toyota/Subaru have their "Sport" package for those that do want that extra kick? Instead of limiting to just the TRD package
AF Raider simple people aren't going to pay for that kind of money when the market itself is already crowded with high HP cars look at the FA20T issues on the WRX once you reach a certain point. Also your deviating from the original concept of the car remember the original AE86 made a measly 112 HP some of us want to run this car up to 250K or more and still have fun. Remember the car is tribute to the classic RWD fun to drive Japanese classic Toyota/Subaru never said this was gonna be a Mustang/Camaro destroyer.
Toyolumpia s Adding a small turbo wouldn't be pushing the boxer that hard I'd assume. Like I said, a small turbo would be fine adding adding a factory 10-20 hp. And if I'm not mistaken, one of the most sought out mod for the AE86 was a turbo. I'm not asking for this car to push out 400+ out the factory, but something to give it a high end punch that can be satisfying yet reasonable.
AF Raider They are paving the way for the toyota supra. They can't have anything getting in the way of the twin V6
I love the fact that your videos aren't interrupted with ads. Does that mean you're not making money? If you ever decide to do that I would still watch.
+boozer74 I dont do ad breaks only skippable ads at start.
thankyou for not doing another SUV review.....
+mustclime Believe me, its very hard because it seems like 90% of press fleets are suvs.
savagegeese Sick and tired of the stupid boxes clogging up the roads. How many ways can manufacturers make two box shapes? None of them are inspired, beautiful to look at, fun to drive, driver focused, or fuel efficient.
Good point. The Mechanic is right. Tuning the suspension and weight distribution is favourable to engine modifications.
Great video, review and overall thoughts on the car. No MT trolls don't ruin this comment thread with your immaturity.
Are you in the automotive industry? Your knowledge shown in reviews is deep! You could be making it all up and goosing us 😂
I was a huge manual transmission snob. I then drove a Audi dual clutch and wasn't impressed, was a bit clunky at low speeds, meh.. I also had a chance to drive a Lexus F car on track and on street with and loved the trans, was very smooth and pleasant at low speeds and was very fast and crisp on track. I would like to drive a Porsche PDK..
Norevlimitr definitely give it a shot if you get the opportunity to do so, it's not perfect but it's pretty damn close in my opinion.
It's as simple as going to your local Porsche dealership...
When I heard journalists say that the PDK can "read your mind", I didn't really believe them. Then I drove a Macan GTS...Ho. Lee. Shit. I'm coming in hot into a corner and between the time I lifted off the gas and *barely started* to apply brake pressure, it downshifted 3 TIMES! The shifts were lightning quick and, as a result, allow you to explore every facet of your car's performance. It's truly an amazing experience, and unfortunately it's ruined every other auto transmission for me since. Nothing on the market holds a candle to it.
Low speed driveability is the PDK's Achilles heel.
Any of the dual clutch boxes will ultimately have to rely on a computer to engage and disengage the engine from the transmission at crawling speeds, and I'm not sure any auto would do better than good ol' left foot in that scenario.
Was waiting for this one for a while, Nice review!
Nice third gen Camaro @6:51
those interior shots look so professional
i am so glad they cant use salt on the roads in my part of alaska. these cars with the right tires do pretty good in winter
a Lexus version with a new front end and maybe the NX200t 2.0 turbo and auto transmission would be fantastic more so for the much needed torque and smoothness
being disabled and not being disabled to drive a stick well any more i am glad to see this review of an automatic gt86 and would consider one
thank you for the excellent video
Interesting fact about the several modifications to the front shocks and springs. Great Review. We love the cars with just a little bit of added power - We like them with Flex Fuel , I/H/E and a good tune - thats the power level it should have came with stock - I also think they built this car at this price point so it could be modified to an owners likings - Again great video
Many people say it needs more power. But it's enough power to drive in the city. I tested to drive New BRZ MT, and it was very fun, especially MT is good. Next car I will buy is family car, so I can't buy 86/BRZ. But, I want to buy it as my second car!!
HERI HAO It even has a really nice torque dip right in the middle of its power band for that nice city driving.
i am impressed with video quality, cuts.. :O amazing job
Purple Passion Action!
once you are up to 70 mph on a regular road, The only thing left is not slowing down. That is only to do with balance, low center of gravity, and the tires remaining planted. 205 hp out of 2.0 liters with the pro-environmental tunes they come with is amazing in 2017.
Dorian Gray I agree man. Had the car for two years and on a windy highway there is nothing that beats it or even comes close and its about as communicative as you would want a car to be. Anything more would be a Lotus Elise.
Darren MacWhirter :)
whenever you buy this car with a slushbox, an angel loses its wings.
aaromon43 headphones and listening skills is your friend buddy.
Jonathan Lindhome what is a lush box
Awesome intro and labeling of scenes subbed bro! Amazing content and work you put in man
here's a good idea for toyota and subaru have the next gen 86 come with a N/A flat 6 making around 300hp and 280 tq rev to 7.5k and then it would truly be a poor man's porsche, and then we would finally have the car that we've all been waiting for
kenshin moriame you might like the V6 Honda Accord
Would be a fantastic option!
Or just get a used Cayman? If they made a flat 6, that's going to be flamed by every car guy because that's against international sports car policy 🤣😂🤣😂 (no one can use flat 6 in a sports car but Porsche, the secret rule or some shit... )
ZDY Subaru outback and legacy has flat 6
Lol now that's apparently just the new Supra ... 300 ish hp for $49k-$56k haha just like the 86 they stole someone elses engine... BMW sigh
Great review! Thank you for posting this in 4k.
+Anthony Mizono You will start to see the 4k getting better as well. I dont talk about it ever but, will start shooting 10bit 4k and all the sub cameras will be in 4k as well. The upcoming Volvo S90 video you will see a new cam for POV in 4k which is a massive improvement while extremely stable.
That's great news, I appreciate the effort and time you put in to producing a quality review.
I heard Turbowski likes salty hot lava.....on his face!
bahahaha!!
I am a Toyota man. My only complaint is they have not followed up on the Mk 4 Supra yet. I think the 86 is a great car for what it is. It is a reliable sporty car for young people. It is great when you understand the what it is for.
Mrdtruck88 they should leave the supra alone... leave it the legend it was, all they will do is make a mk5 and ruin it and that will kill the fun in owning a mk4
no, whether the mk5 sucks or supercedes the mk4 (or even stays the same performance wise with a modern body and engine... as the mk4 chassis is plenty capable of over 200mph on a design started in the late 80s.) the mk4 will not be any less of a legend regardless of what happens.
the mere mention of a mk5 will make the mk4 go up in price. just as the NSX did.
It's painful to listen to Americans saying FRS has been rebranded... No mofos, it was 86 that was badged differently. Now you are just seeing the normal car that everyone else has been getting. This car has always been an 86. It was designed based in hachiroku legacy.
Phoenix King To Americans, it’s rebranded. We knew it was called the 86 internationally, but here it’s been the FRS until recently.
have this car in halon white automatic and its just a really fun car to drive \ toss around. no complaints from this owner. and it has a trunk and back seats for my gym bags.
needs a quad turbo and stickers.
Yep, TJ Hunt merch is sweet!
justin bouche and an interior put together from a General Motors parts bin, right Justin? 😂
Wut
justin bouche I'm making a joke that references your multitude of comments on other videos pertaining to the alleged superiority of GM interiors.
yea, you're a dumb ass, i comment on all car videos.
I got a manual 2017 BRZ in October 2016, and I daily drive it to school and that's about it. Put a catback on it and left the rest untouched. It is PERFECT for puttering around and spirited street driving. I love the lack of grip because I don't push the car too much, and slipping around is fun. With the 2017 revisions including the bump in torque, the shortened gears (biggest thing), and the softer suspension, I couldn't see myself wanting to change the car in any other way besides maybe giving me Apple CarPlay pls. It is the perfect "sports" car for puttering around in something that FEELS special, but isn't.
Kromeification I want CarPlay for mine, too. I've been looking into getting the Alpine ILX-107 installed.
Haru Can they make the steering wheel buttons work with the new head unit?
Ugly AF new front bumper. But the Toyota emblems are a lot nicer than the Scion emblems at least.
The uninspiring Subaru/truck engine and torque dip keeps me from ever buying it though. If only they stuck a good Toyota engine in it instead..maybe some kind of modern & updated version of the 4AGE or 2ZZGE (like you mentioned).. high rev, decent power and super linear like a Honda engine, and most importantly no torque dip.
I agree...that Subaru engine kills it (not the good "kills it").
A new Toyota 4-cylinder NA engine with 220-260hp, 8k (or even 9k) redline would make this thing a legend.
Less Talk, More Delicious true. I actually like the idea of the car; compact rear wheel drive roadster coupe... but Subaru 2.0 L-boxer are known for their head gaskets. If this was a real Toyota engine, it would be a super reliable, high-reving, engine with a timing chain :p
Cristian Gamez-Panuco Subaru hasn't had gasket issues since 05 get off it.
New headers and a tune make the torque curve linear.
My 86 has leaky gaskets (valve cover)
Great as always. I imagine you have a lot more in the shop footage. Does Scott get to drive these? I wonder if by looking at the suspension system of these vehicles you review he can predict how it might handle or what he doesn't like. You both commented on how you'd have modded the car if you got it as a young person. You weren't lying. A quick search shows a lot of videos of people modding the hell out of this car. So, what makes the stock hardware special? What would you mod and why? What does Scott's experience as a mechanic and someone who knows a lot about cars allow him to say about how this car holds up? I love your videos. There is literally a Genesis sedan sitting in my driveway right now because of you. Thanks! Keep it up.
they need to get rid of that motor and put in a straight I4. easy to work on, more reliable, and stay true to the original 86
41ace no kidding. can't even spark plugs on this one unless one really knows Subaru boxers
I appreciate you taking the time to review automatics too. I'd like to own a stick shift but living in a congested urban area sucks all the fun out of the experience when you're using it as a daily driver!
Still kinda want to pick up a used manual Miata for the weekends though... one can dream.
I was really hoping that you would crash the car because I know you would be ok and it would be one less automatic on the road
You want all the grandmas and grandpas on the road to drive manuals? I don't.
Am totally happy with my 1988 turbo Fiero GT with 300HP that I bought for five grand. Drives and corners so well. Makes many modern cars look bad. A blast to drive.
CAn you do a g35 or 350z review or 370z review
+James Nunez Ill ask for 370 but doubt they have it.
savagegeese sounds good hopefully they let you even though there's tons of reviews out there would be great to here yours and turbowskies opinion on one
+James Nunez I might target some of these cars in spring or summer, maybe able to get them from Detroit.
savagegeese Curious to see what your opinions are on the 370z with sport package.
Your reviews are fantastic.
Mr.Geese be on that Coke Train
Nice review in depth review lots of detail and I have watched a lot. Thanks for highlighting differences in the 2017model, gonna get a GT86 to replace my Celica ST230 in a year or two.
How do you "work on balance" yourself? It doesn't work like that. If they could throw a 3 liter, 300 horsepower H-6 in this, it might be perfect, but not a freaking I-4...
+Sterling Roberts not talking about a V6 talking about a 4-cylinder with a higher CG like the S2000 and Miata as mentioned they don't have a problem with balance. There are plenty of 4-cylinder Motors that make well over 240 horsepower. Balance can easily be attained with different suspension tires sway bars alignment it doesn't all have to be about the position of the motor.
H stands for horizontal; no one's talking about a V6 here. You'd be a special kind of dumb to say that the car's handling isn't better with a lower center of gravity. I'm acutely aware that balance can be achieved in many ways, but to say that it can be just as good(without other tradeoffs) as an inline-4 is lunacy. I'm just saying that an H-6 would make an absolutely killer car, albeit probably cost $30,000+.
My main problem with the video is clearly stated in my initial comment: The level of handling the 86 offers cannot just "be worked on" without sacrificing either ride quality or gobs of money. Go make a mustang anything handle like this car and tell me I'm wrong. You're buying a quality platform, not just an engine with wheels.
You say there are plenty of 4 cylinder "motors"(no capitalization needed) that make "well over' 240 horsepower, so I assume you're referring to the S2000's K20? That car, especially when accounting for inflation, is WAY more expensive. I'm just assuming you're not referring to engines utilizing forced induction. Now, if you're talking about I-4s with more than 2.0 liters, sure, but there's not "plenty" of 240+ 2.0 liter naturally aspirated 4 cylinders out there. So please, list these engines you speak of.
The S2000 has a F20, not a K20. And it doesn't matter how much it cost when it was brand new. The benchmark is still comparing the 86 platform to a 10 year old honda which is sad. It can't live up to it PERIOD.
Mixed up the letters there, but it seems you understood what I meant.
Adjusting for inflation, the S2000 is a $45,000 car. You say the 86 sucks because it doesn't do what that car did 15 years ago even though it costs almost half the price. That's not even mentioning that the 86 is better than the S2000 in many ways.
It doesn't even matter what it would cost today with inflation. You aren't going to go out and find one that costs 45,000 and that's the point. You would spent literally half what it costs a BRZ for a clean low miles AP1 or spend a few grand extra over that and get a 04-05, with the leftover change you could do whatever you want with the car and start competing against cars way out of your class. What matters is right here right now if you went out with 30 grand cash, what could you buy.