@Faceless King Objectively "pice" is not an English word. OK, objectively show that you don't get what you pay for? I can show that in many comparable circumstances 7.62x39 is more expensive. For example subsonic 220gr loadings, cheapest x39 right now is $1.60/rd, cheapest 300blk is $0.95/rd.
@@snek9353 If by get what you pay for you mean a bunch of ammo for a far better price. Ammo that has fought in more wars and conflicts and continues to do so. Then I'll stick with the good ole 762x39. The suppressed argument is a small niche one at that. Inside 350 yards, in most uses 762x39 not only gets it done but does so with more velocity and more energy.
For me it came down to cost , excluding the reloading thing , 7.62 x 39 is half the cost of 300 black and that made up a big part of my choice to go that way .
Where do you shoot? I only have ranges to shoot at that don't allow bi metal rounds, and I cant find any "range safe" 7.62 for less than basic 300 blackout.
@@brucerm01 very rarely do I get to a range , and use it for predator control in cattle country, and even as of yesterday the 7.62 Russian was about half the cost as 300 black , and when I built my gun it was just cheaper to build at that time . That said I do like the 300 blackout but unless i decide to run a can i cant find much difference.
The ammunition you have, and can continue to source, that fires reliably in a weapon system you are trained to proficiency in to accomplish your given mission is the practically superior round, objectively speaking.
From a purely cost/standardization perspective, 7.62 x 39 wins. Ballistically, .300 BLK and 7.62 x 39 are comparable. Where 300 BLK shines and is worth the higher cost is: short barrels and suppressors, fitting in a STANAG mag and simply requiring a separate upper for an AR/M4.
@@lungcanc3r666 - putting a can on an AK is a huge PITA, because it does not play nice with the gas system. You have to do a lot of messing around and customization to get it to function reliably. If you're putting the can on a normal AK (16" bbl), it now becomes as big as full-sized battle rifle in length.
@@RonDevito well barrel length isn't really an issue, since the same can be said about any rifle. You get a pistol ak or SBR it. It's really not that much of a pain if you get the OSS. No changing gas. I run the dead air wolverine with the KNS. Same tweaking needs to be had with an AR unless you want to eat gas to the face. For my ARs i run the bootleg carrier. While yea dropping a BCG in a AR isn't the same as changing a piston. Variety is always nice to have. Plus you could always build an AR in x39. While objectively yes 300blk is awesome. X39 is super cheap and subsonic stuff is as well. No fun in training with an intermediate round while paying .308 prices on subs. Obviously if money isn't an issue then none of the issues above would be one either.
@@SuperHeatherrussell - indeed it does, but the difference is - you need a separate rifle (SBR or pistol) when firing that round out of a Kalashnikov pattern rifle. The attraction to 300 BLK is swapping uppers, because at least for now with ARs - the lower is "the gun." Sure there are "AR/AK's" that fire 7.62 x 39 using AK mags in an AR type rifle - but those are a separate lower - that is a separate gun - from a standard AR lower. They also kind of combine the worst attributes of both types. Back to .300 BLK, the penalty with .300 BLK is that it can cost 4x or even more 7.62 x 39. If you shoot a lot, it's cheaper to get a short-barrel AK (actual SBR or pistol) and be done with it.
Rifles shooting the 7.62x39 round tend to be robust and rugged, but the platforms shooting 300 Blackout can be as well. Valid consideration, but this is a platform factor, and the video is limited to "objective" comparison of the cartridges themselves.
AR pattern rifles perform significantly better in mud and sand tests etc. AKs seem to consistently fail with the introduction of any dirt. Garand Thumb and InRangeTV have both done videos showing this. It's up in the air for which lasts longer without care. Probably the AK. But you shouldn't be doing that to any rifle regardless
Yes they are a rugged round for sure but availability and the price is absolutely ridiculous! I've gone back to shooting. 22 LR and .308 because of price and availability.
I just learned that the 300 blackout uses pistol powder instead of rifle powder to make the burn time faster for shorter barreled rifles. Also, the 300 blackout variety of ammo is sub-sonic and supersonic and everything in between. I am not sure that 7.62x39 has the same variety. Lastly, I like the AR platform. I have 3 barrels: .223, .300AAC, and .458 SOCOM. I just mark my magazines with the round that is to be loaded and switch barrels as needed.
When you say barrels, I'm going to assume you mean uppers. Switching barrels on a AR isn't that hard but it isn't that easy either. Especially considering the aiming devices, etc., that need to be calibrated. Either way, they make 7.62x39 barrels and uppers for ARs.
Yep,and you can't get handgun powder or any primers here in Australia so reloading the 300 blackout is a no go at the moment. ADI which makes all our gunpowders have stated there will be no handgun powder or any primers available for the foreseeable future? Bye bye all calibres that require handgun powder for reloading. I bought 3000 hornady large rifle primers before the plandemic started so I'm good to go for my .308 and I can still get rifle powders .The other issue with 300 blackout is the fckn price ! And if you can even get them,everything is on backorder that is popular-5.56,223,300 blkout,300win mag,300 wsm,270,338 lapua,the list goes on. But not so with .308 or 30.06 or .22 lr,these calibres are in stock and are plentiful. In these times of ammo shortages you will have to go back to the basics,the old school calibres do the job all round wether it's just plinking with .22 or hunting with .308 or 30.06-all these 3 calibres cover all the basics so why bother flopping around like a fish out of water trying to get these fancy calibres when you can't even get them ! Might be different in America with ammo and reloading supplies but that's how it is here!
@@Zeitgeistprepper1967 That sucks. At one time, we could not get 22 LR due to the IRS buying a bunch of 9MM and the ammo manufacturers had to resupply.
@@sammcbride2464 yep it sucks alright! The gunsmith/ gun dealer i get all my stuff from has said the reason why reloading supplies and ammunitions are in short supply is because the military and governments are hoarding most of it in preparation for ww3! There is 300 million rounds of assorted calibres on backorder here in Australia, our population is about 23 million,and only 30 million rounds are going to reach us peasants!
I shot 762x35 exclusively for a solid year and I really enjoyed its versatility. I rolled my own the whole time, used everything from 110 gr to 220gr. Converted all my own cases from 556 which I have gallons of. It's a fun one that I've missed since I took it apart and built something else.
You couldn't afford an extra Aero or Palmetto lower for your other project but you can waste time on UA-cam instead of working a second job? Must be about 23?
Nice presentation. I own 7.5" 12" and 16" ARs in both calibers. I have thousands of rounds in brass and steel casings for both. I don't have any line-of-site from my property which would allow me better than a potential maximum of a 200 yard shot. Given that range, the two are pretty much indistinguishable, ballistically. The cost per detonation is very different. Advantage 7.62x39. The ability to use good projectiles with multiple options is a different matter. Advantage 300BO. The only great disparity I hear is in using them subsonicly. I have 198 soft point 7.62x39 and 220 sp 300BO. There is no difference in reliability or effectiveness that I can perceive.
In terms of an Intermediate Caliber... 6.5 Grendel is hands down my favorite. ...but I have a nice stockpile of 7.62x39. Maybe once I get myself a can/supressor I'll look into 300BO but for now 6.5 Grendel turns my crank and is my go-to hunting round for Mulies/Deer and even Cow Elk up here in the PNW.
Unless you're going to be shooting suppressed subsonic, 300bo is a waste of money. I shoot suppressed, subsonic 7.62x39 a lot cheaper than 300 bo And grendel is the best
I always viewed the .300 Blackout as a product improved .30 carbine. The ballistics are somewhat superior but the .300 Blackout was designed to give greater collary mass to a round fired from an AR platform. I stick with 5.56 with heavier bullets and even Barnes copper bullets for a variety of reasons. The .30 Russian short was designed primarily to defeat cover. There is NO doubt in my mind that it was inspired by the 8mm kurz round.
Except it wasn't, 7.62x39 was in development since 1943, which was before the first MP/STG rifles were being fielded in any amount. The rifles that came after were not influenced by the STG in any way at all, the designers had no knowledge of them prior to designing their rifles. The reason for its design was to modernize the Red army from bolt actions to submachine guns after they saw just how effective they were in the Winter War, and in the beginning of WW2 as a full powered rifle round was not needed for most engagements since they were typically 300m or less.
@@ThrashTillDeth85 8mm Kurz was finalized and fielded (in small number prototype platforms) in 1942. Development of x39 started in 1943, but it started life in '43 as the 7.62x41mm and would not be shortened until after the war (late '45/early '46, I believe). It was almost certainly inspired by the 8mm kurz, as the aforementioned was the first intermediate cartridge invented.
That's the same way I look at supersonic .300 Blackout. It's somewhere between a high-BC .30 Carbine and the 7.62x39. As for subsonic .300 Blackout, it's a super high-BC pistol caliber round that suppresses very well.
"objectively" is really vague too, depends on your goals and where you're starting from. Ignoring that .300 BLK is about a $1 per round at the moment it might be a real good choice to get into 7.62 if you're already invested in a 5.56 rifle and have a lot of mags and pouches. If you don't own a rifle yet 7.62x39 might be more attractive overall due to the cost of ammo, however gun costs for x39 are insane unless you go for something like a second gen bear creek x39 build, which have had a ton of improvements recently. Also when it comes to cost we might see .300 BLK become cheaper down the road, wolf was bringing steel cased .300 BLK to the market when the pandemic messed everything up. Sub sonic ammo is also pretty easy to get in both calibers. Personally I'm going to make a crack head move and try to cobble together an upper and a lower in 7.62x39 to have a sub $500 x39 AR. The new 28 rounder C-products x39 mags seem to work well for most people and they fit M4 mag pouches. Plus I've seen a lot of people shoot 2 MOA and better groups with x39 ARs, so that's probably better than what I'm capable of. Good video by the way.
Objective can't be vague. Objectivity is literally looking at the tangible facts as presented and forming a conclusion based on them. Subjectivity is the term you are looking for.
@@OddBallPerformance Working retail has rotted my brain. Yeah subjective fits what I'm explaining better. What is measured in terms of being objectively better might be hard for people to agree on so I'm not sure one caliber being objectively better is something we could all ever agree on. For example, in many cases I've noticed 123'ish grain x39 is usually faster than an comparable 120 grain .300 blk, or at least the same speed. I remember PPU brass FMJ x39 clocking in a little north of 2,400 fps, that's something I have yet to see .300 blk do at a similar weight. And yes, there are more aerodynamic bullets for the .308 bore .300 blk, it has a ton of domestic support and the legacy of .308 Win bullet development to back it up. There's no reason why companies shouldn't explore making advanced low drag bullets for x39 as well though, it has a lot of potential for precision within 400 yards if drop can accurately be estimated. With the Russian ammo import ban though both .300 blk and x39 are crippled in terms of pricing. Steel cased .300 blk might never materialize en masse and x39 has lost a massive part of it's draw. Hopefully after a year those sanctions will be lifted or we'll have a work around. In the meantime I've scraped my x39 AR plans. I suppose though one silver lining is that some people are selling the various x39 rifles for relatively cheap prices compared to previous price points. So it might be a good time to "invest" in some x39 power tools if you see a great deal, eventually they'll get cheap to feed again, and probably climb in value. I'll just be glad when things calm back down.
I did the cheap AR47 build, a BCA 2nd gen upper and a PSA lower with polished trigger. I upgraded the firing pin and it fires beautifully, I haven't measured grouping yet.
@@RyedTheLightning Hopefully x39 ammo will stay at 50¢ a round or get cheaper. I hope this ammo import ban doesn't cause AR47s to go the same way as 5.45 AR74s.
@@ds6872 I'm not saying the caliber is going to disappear. 5.45 is still available, and it's made in Ukraine, Poland, Belarus, etc, so it's not going away with the ban. However, 5.45 is as expensive or more so than 5.56, and has comparable performance but you need a special bolt and mag. There just wasn't a good reason for people to buy 5.45 ARs when a 5.56 was more cost effective overall, so the 5.45 market went back to mostly AKs only. 5.45 ARs are really hard to find and in some cases are kind of collectible now. What I'm concerned about is if .300 BLK and x39 are really close in price there's no real compelling reason to buy an x39 AR when you could spend the same on a .300 BLK AR and use common 5.56 bolts and mags. If that happens eventually x39 ARs will be one of those firearms oddities more for collecting than shooting. x39 will still be #1 in AK circles because that makes a lot more sense to keep using as .300 BLK would be the same price but would create a ton of compatibility issues with the AK platform.
here's the thing tho, 300 blackout quickly gets boring to shoot at the range because it doesn't penetrate anything. Banana ballistics channel uses 2200ftps blackout and it bounces off 1/4 steel. And blackout has limited range as the bullet starts lobbing after 300yds. 7.62x39 goes thru steel like butter LOL.
You nailed it.. 7.62x39 is objectively cheaper and more available, while 300 blackout has objectively better bullet selection and more flexibility in its role.
@@snek9353 You were getting schooled by 7.62x39 guys in Nut n Fancy's video yesterday. Now your getting it handed to you here. Love the devotion to consistency.
Another thing I love about .300AAC is that I can take my .223 brass that's lived its life and with very little effort, turn it into a .300 AAC round, literally for free. I love flexibility.
One aspect that isn’t covered is reloading. A lot of US made 7.62x39 barrels use .308 bores making the 7.62x39 capable of shooting a much larger range of suitable bullets at a slightly higher velocity. It’s also a very easy cartridge to load for and extremely accurate in a well made rifle. The case was the parent for the PPC and Grendel cartridges. Winchester, Federal, Remington, Hornady, etc also all produce ammo for the 7.62x39 using good quality copper jacketed bullets so it doesn’t make sense to lose a point for the BiMetal jackets. My personal opinion is that if you want shoot suppressed subsonic ammo, get a 300BLK. If you want to hunt or just plink for cheap, get the 7.62x39. I will add that in the AR platform, the 300BLK uses a stronger bolt and extractor but I’ve yet to have one of mine break. The 300HAMR uses the 5.56 case and therefore the same bolt, extractor, and magazine. It has a big advantage on power so if you’re a reloader, components are very available and it might be a better choice. 7.62x39 has been my favorite for the past decade though simply because it does everything I need, every time.
@@fortnite.burgerthat’s true for factory ammo and foreign barrels but as I stated above, many US made AR barrels have a .308 bore. Technically most US bullets for 7.62x39 are .310. The reloading die sets often come with expanders for both .308 and .310 bullets. I believe Ruger once made the mini 30 with a .308 barrel as well. Reloaders have the choice to use either caliber bullet when they have a .308 barrel chambered in 7.62x39.
As pointed out in this thread, 7.62x39 has been in production since the mid 1940's in numerous nations. The cost of production (i.e. setting up a factory etc) has been SUNK a long time ago. This round services the arms depots of numerous countries. It was DESIGNED to be cost effective; also the steel jackets better complement the violent long stroke piston action of the AK. I've heard brass rims can get torn off under certain conditions.
This is true to some degree. But proper gas port sizing has a lot to do with that too. It's the long-stroke piston design that is most reliable in these type rifles. This is why many AR and bullpup producers have been transitioning [back] to long-stroke piston designs. The DI system is just not a good design for most applications and no one will ever convince me otherwise. We've tweaked the M16/M4/AR enough to get it reliable enough but it still fails and lags behind most newer (and older) piston designs in trials today. The only reason it's still around is low cost and the weird sentimental attachment Americans put on it. I absolutely loathed the thing when I was with 2nd Marine Division 2005-2009. Guys can keep their carbon scraper chisels and gas rings...ugh. PASS
@Il mio nome è Nessuno You know it....at least for intermediate cartridge fighting rifles. Yes, I'm an AK guy, particularly the AK-74. I like more modern, piston designed AR's as well but there's no standardization of parts. All over the place with different companies. But I don't hate the M16/M4/AR15, I just don't want to deal with it anymore.
@@pennsyltuckyreb9800 Since you seem like an expert on the subject, may I ask what you would think of an AK chambered in 6.5 Grendel? Do you think it would be a significant update? Or is it better to stick to the classic calibres?
@Il mio nome è Nessuno I'm no expert, friend. Just an experienced enthusiast. But go with whatever you shoot best is my opinion. I don't really think caliber really matters. For me, personally, something like 6.5 Grendel wouldn't be something worth putting into an AK. Just stick with common calibers, 7.62x39, 5.45, 5.56....you'll never go wrong and always have a widely available and produced caliber. They are plenty effective enough as intermediate fighting calibers. 6.5, 6.8, etc are probably more effective in an AR type platform and even then are expensive and niche calibers.
The versatility of options of the 300 blackout allows for subsonic suppressed (220 grain) for home defense without going deaf and concern about over penetration. Lighter grain high velocity allows for a great hunting round at typical distances of most Americans. One weapon two different rounds and you are set. Buy a 5.56 upper and to shoot cheap rounds for practice/plinking.
It really comes down to what I'm using it for. 8.5 in 300 AAC suppressed shooting 220 grain subsonic is my go to for home defense because its MUCH more quiet and still leaves a big hole without collateral outside of that target.
My daughter graduated from RU a few years ago.... Who cares, I know. Are you local here? And if so do you have a decent place to get your firearms out? I have grown to really dislike the national forest range.
I have to say, when you’re talking about a round for military platforms, availability is ABSOLUTELY a relevant, objectively IMPORTANT data point. If you can’t get the ammo to the field, it’s literally useless. What you’ve done is like a classic physics class problem. Let’s assume no friction and no other forces outside the problem. In other words, let’s not look at this from a perspective of reality. Also, if a bullet shoots “tiny little groups, even out of a trash gun” you’re gonna have to do better than “but muh BCC’s”. Seriously, the reason there’s still not a huge availability for .300black is that it’s just not a big enough improvement to bother with.
No the reason its not everywhere is because it wasnt made for the most numerous rifle ever made and not a standardized military cartridge. Still not better than 300BLK
The 300BLK was designed specifically for the military... So the argument that it isn't as popular due to military selection doesn't make sense, additionally a majority of countries don't use a weapon that is chambered in 7.62x39. The 7.62 is better at delivery of energy as it holds more ft/lbs of energy, however it is a less accurate round that can't be suppressed as easily. To each their own, but most people will take the performance of the 300 blk out of their AR platform without spending a large amount to convert it or buy a mutant rifle with proprietary parts.
@@Fin.mint. It's the same F!@king Bullet!! the only difference is the cartridge. Subsonic shmubsonic. It's the platform and no it was not designed for the military although it may have been used bo certain units after it's development. The only difference is the cartridge. Learn something.
Great and fair comparison, with one exception. The 7.62x39 is available in real copper jacketed rounds, so the argument that the bullets are steel jacketed is moot. It can be purchased either way, plus more. Thank you for taking on this comparison. I enjoyed watching.
Plus that ding on the bi-metal jackets makes the point that some of us buy reputable brass 7.62x39 for reasons beyond reloading which, btw, neither my Zastava AK or SKS beat up brass so bad it's not reloadable (my PTR32 on the other hand...). As for the comment on 7.62x39 AR mags, yeah, they're kinda silly. But so what. The pig doesn't care and I have 8 by 3 different manufacturers. Not a single failure to feed or drop out once I went to an Aero lower. Bringing the mere existence of bi-metal jacket rounds as a negative was the fall. Talking about the beating the cases take from AK/SKS rifles making them non-reloadable was the setup. Dismissively bashing 7.62x39 AR mags as unworthy of their existence was to keep the 7.62x39 inextricably linked to AK/SKS rifles. but also a cheap shot. I chuckled when he brought up both those arguments but it was obvious when he reached to bi-metal jackets as a negative that he tried to box that one in first. Still, otherwise fun. Next up, 7.62x51 NATO is objectively superior to 7.62x54r... Please!
@@411DL Had a 7.62x39 AR Pistol. Had mags by different mfgs and just couldn't run consistently regardless of what I did. Converted everything over to a KS47 receiver/BCG set and it runs like a top. Kinda harsh though.
@@thinkharder9332 And I have a 300 blackout AR pistol as well. Both run real well. I'm not interested in a 5.56 AR pistol because I think the short barrel loses too much. And yes, I know what dwell time is.
@@foodog3026 Not really what I was getting at. That 300 works well in the AR15 platform including standard mags, and works very well with very short barrels, gives it advantages even without a can. Something like a Sig Rattler or Maxim PDX paired with a Surefire 60rd mag is a heck of a little powerhouse in a very small package and something that 300BLK excels at over any other cartridge even without a can.
@Allen Shaughnessy They've come a long way but they still have issues. The bolt breakage issues make for a setup too unreliable to really count on. That or you have to go to a large(AR10) bolt setup like the CMMG which makes it larger. Then of course there's also no bolt hold open and rock-n-lock still sucks. 7.62x39 is a lower pressure cartridge so in very short barrels it's still going to fall behind the 300BLK. 7.62x39 lacks bullet selection, there's significant advantage to the wide selection of all copper expanding or fragmenting bullets available for 300BLK. That 60rd mag might be great, it might be junk, IDK. I do know that the surefire mags work great and are significantly shorter making for a more compact setup.
I absolutely LOVE my 300 Blackout AR pistol! Im also very glad I stockpiled some 300blk ammo a few years ago, that stuff is expensive today! Honestly people who crap on the 300 blackout only do so because they dont have experience with it (more than just a day or few times shooting it) or because of how much the ammo is (now). For CQB I dont think anything come close to 300blk. Id put my 300bk pistol up against just about anything. In all seriousness though, it's about having fun and being SAFE with what you own. For home defense / SHTF go with what you shoot best with and GET TRAINED with it. Go get get some good First Aid training too! Great video and info BTW, you do an excellent job VSO Gun Channel!!!
Both are equally good cartridges in their own way, but were designed for different purposes. 300 Blackout is better suited for suppression and the AR platform.
300blk was developed specifically with an AR-15 in mind and specifically to use existing AR-15 magazines. Both rounds can be built for suppression. Both cases can be stuffed with a heavy-ass bullet and reduced powder charge to both propel the bullet at high subsonic speed but also to cycle the rifle. At least the suppressor should be selected correctly for the job, or else it won't trap enough gas at sufficient pressure to operate the weapon. It's easier to do that with an AR as it uses lighter bolt carrier, but that's a rifle thing, not caliber or the round thing.
I was under the impression the 300BO was a commercialized version of the 300 Whisper.. (which i own one of the original guns) And it was designed for a very specific purpose. and excels very well at it.
It was designed at the request of SOF for superior ballistics out of a short barrel compared to 5.56 and was also designed to be better at being suppressed with subsonic bullets.
@@paulbarclay4114 you have 375 Socom, 375 raptor, 6.5 Grendel, and even 350 legend which all can out preform the 300 blackout in any load or barrel length. These are a few examples.
You can't properly compare these without considering what they were designed for. The 7.62x39 was designed to be mass produced for volume fire at close ranges and accurate (enough) fire up to 300 meters. It was designed to equip the Soviet army as a front line combat weapon. The .300 Blackout was designed for achieving ballistics similar to the 7.62x39 in the M4 carbine. The .300 Blackout is a 30 caliber round designed to work in AR platforms because the 7.62x39 and AR's don't really play nice together. The .300 Blackout is superior for that application. The 7.62x39 is superior in the application it was designed for. Use the tool that best fits your requirements.
The cmmg has mastered the ar platform for 7.62x39. I have one. It’s extremely accurate and have never had a jam or other malfunction in 4 thousand rounds. Just saying......
300blk is literally a 7.62x39 with minor tweaks. Heavy round, easily suppressed, decent velocity out of short barrels. Price it most important for 99% of Gun owners. 300blk is too bougie for the average consumer.
Yeah I'm just getting into reloading and being able to go from a 110gr .30 caliber bullet that shoots at 2200 to a 220gr bullet that runs at 1050 is amazing. The selection of bullets for 300 blackout is insane.
I do the same with 7.62x39........ the 300blk is easier to get the extreme pills to cycle autoloader, though. 300blk lovers (and I do love the cartridge!) are famous for saying it is better than the x39 for something the x39 also does. ....... lol. Both are GREAT for their intended purposes. Neither is best for the other's intended purposes!
Once again it's the same freaking bullet!!!! As a matter of fact X39 can shoot any 300BO bullet but a 300BO can't shoot any X39 bullet so you got it backwards there Skippy
The fact that you showed a chart with the 7.62x39 having 15% more velocity, then admitted that velocity is really important, but then somehow concluded the two were basically equivalent just made me turn off the video. You had your mind made up before you even started making the video and were just looking to justify picking your favorite. 7.62x39 has a crappy selection of bullets, which aren't very good for BC, but it definitely has more power. 300 BLK is just too underpowered for my preferences. There's just not enough room for the powder required to get a bullet that large up to an acceptable velocity for me.
My PWS MK116 mod2 in 7.62x39 has never had an issue. Accurate and reliable (even with steel), good ergos. Great ballistics. Cheap to shoot. No complaints here.
Well done! I do like BOTH. Unfortunately I only have a “stockpile” of the STEEL stuff..X 39 that is. Edited to add: It’s imperative that we mention ONLY ONE was designed to be suppressed though. THAT’S WHERE the 300 BLK shines the brightest..
Why a minus for the 7.62 bullet on the content of projectiles. You've said it yourself that the steel jacket is covered with copper, so no metal on metal contact is provided?
@@snek9353 Most rifling depths are around .005(+/-.001), while copper plating on most steel case from the various ammo plants are between .008-.010 The steel jacket never meets the rifling.
The appeal to 300BLK for me is the subsonic option. Sure, a heavier, slower projectile will not travel as far, but for CQ operations, the 300BLK does the job.
I trained to fight the communist armies of the world for 27yrs of my life. And while the x39 cartridges are more numerous, it still comes down to weapon adaptability. Meaning the AR platform rifles are literally like the Lego building blocks of the firearm industry. You build your AR lower the way you want, and you can even swap out the butt stock to something else later. Now you have the base, that all you have to do is change the upper and now you can shoot several different calibers from one lower. Most efficient firearm in the world hands down.
pseudo science is always interesting . But if you compare apples with apples the 7.62 x39 is 200FPS faster for any given weight of projectile or if you like 15 grains heavier at any given speed and for us civilians that's all we need to know . The difference doesn't sound like a lot but as you get down in power its important. As far as a military cartridge the 7.62 was replaced by the Russians and the 300blk will never have a large military uptake. The 300blk is a reincarnation of the 30 carbine . If you are shooting tin cans of the back fence it probably doesn't mater but I've used both for hunting and the difference is real , their are times when I really wanted to chuck the 300 into the swamp.
Nice. This is real information someone who has actually used it for hunting. Real world experience. Not a guy on the range in perfect conditions shooting paper.
7.62x39 is still used by Russian alpha groups out of shorter barrels for raiding buildings, because it doesn't lose much velocity at all out of short barrels , also Russia just made.the new ak15. European nations still use it , finland being one of them, no country has adopted 300 blk but many use 7.62x39 . it isn't going anywhere
But, will those bullets have the same construction as .300 AAC? 7.62x39 doesn't use a perfect .308 projectile. But the difference between 7.62x39 and .300 AAC is comparable to the difference between a .308 and a .30-'06. Which is a decent amount in my opinion. For hunting, I think the 7.62x39 knocks on the door of a .30-30. For hunting, suppression, more bullet selection, use of AR platforms, the .300 is the better pick. I like both though.
I mean, if the 300 BLK didn't take it down you must've been shooting him wrong. Many videos of people taking large deer and boar with supers. I used a steel case 147 Gr hollow point on a beautiful 8 pointer last year. 1 shot, made it 40 yards. Hate to be "that guy" however. Happy Hunting.
300blk subsonic is closer to 9x39mm. While 300blk supersonic is closer to 7.62x39mm. Personally, I say "buy them all". Best chance to cover all criteria.
I'd say 9x39 is better, considering that both are subsonic the 9mm is a bigger bullet with the same velocity so it throws more energy downrange. 9x39 bullets have very high sectional density and also have tungsten penetrators that are extremely sharp (they'll cut your skin) so they don't just stop dead in their tracks they will actually punch through barriers and nij level 3 body armor. This is with modern rounds. Older soviet era loads have slightly less velocity but still make up for it over subsonic .300 as they have steel cores and higher density vs the softer lead core of .300.
@@TurgzUhm what, well yes but actually no. Yes by the fact of 9x39 being able to have a heavier bullet it'll put more energy down range. But that's the extent of the yes in this comment. No, that's not what sectional density is, due to the larger caliber 9x39 has less sectional density. Just where in the US do I buy 9x39 with tungsten penetrators. That the Russians once made such a thing is moot here in the US. BTW there's plenty of .308 bullets currently being made in the US with better/similar construction. Steel is LESS dense than lead.
@@snek9353 That would be very true on the 9x39mm bullet choices in the US. The only real commercial offerings for 9x39mm are lead and bi-metal jacket variants. None of them have core design and hardness like the original Russian designs.
@@snek9353 Caliber itself has nothing to do with sectional density. SD is defined as a bullet's mass divided by it's cross sectional area (CSA is an area whereas diameter is a linear measurement). In other words, the longer and heavier the bullet the higher it's SD. The higher the SD the more it will retain momentum both in the air and in a target, which means it better retains both energy and BC downrange. The 9x39 bullet is long and heavy, so it actually has high SD. It retains it's energy and bc better downrange than .300 does no matter what load is used. You imply it doesn't go through barriers and armor, which is false for the reasons i mentioned. It goes through barriers and armor. considering it's subsonic and has the edge over .300 in this regard. As for buying the tungsten tips, you won't be buying anything indictive of what the military round should be anyway, you'll only be buying a watered down FMJ hunting bullet. We are comparing the rounds as they are, not what's available to buy in one country at this moment in time. Otherwise we would be judging all these rounds relative to the firearms that use them which will skewer the results of the ammo itself. "Steel is less dense than lead" What has this got to do with anything? Sectional density in context of a bullet is again mass divided by CSA whereas density by itself is mass divided by volume. Calculating SD will give a different answer to calculating the density of the same object. It makes no difference if lead is more dense than steel as the 9x39 bullet is still heavier than .300.
Just watched 300 vs 7.62x39 on steel plate. 300 did terrible. 300 price is terrible. About twice as expensive as something with similar ballistics. Kinda explained why we ain't going from 5.56 to 300. 223 did a better job than the 300 on steel plate. 7.62x39 penetrates a lot better than 5.56. I'm not gonna waste my time converting to 300.
300 blackout (7.62x35) subsonic ammo is quiet with a suppressor, and louder and more powerful with supersonic ammo. The 7.62x39 round is an old, long-proven round that doesn't offer subsonic ammo. Shooting it with a suppressor is quieter than shooting it without a suppressor. Both rounds are good. However, when the new 8.6 blackout (8.6x43) round is perfected and the price comes down, it will replace many 300 blackout (7.62x35) and 7.62x39 guns.
Both millitary and civilian subsonic 7.62*39 ammo exist and in available. Modern AKs with modern suppressors works fine with subsonic ammo without any need for gas block adjustments. 300BK have a huge flaw that makes it vastly inferior to 7.62*39 - it can be loaded and fired from 5.56*45 riffle resulting in catastrophic failure, that may lead to injury or death of the shooter. 300BK was designed for US civilian market and for civilian shooters. Many of them won't be happy if they need to buy another gun and separate set of magazines, and super excited when they can save some of their precious cash and use existing mags and AR lowers. But it's not an issue for millitary - operators don't buy their stuff out of their own pocket , single peace of the NV tech costs more that 2-3 fully kited guns. But they do use their weapons in less then relaxed environment and at this moment a single 300BK round that ended in your 5.56 magazine may lead very sad results. Weapon that can be assembled incorrectly is a bad weapon. Ammunition that may lead to a catastrophic destruction of a weapon is a bad ammo
Since developing my own 350 legend sub load with a 245 grain flat point I’ve grown quite fond of the caliber. My ar will run anything from 115 grain supers to 245 grain subs accurately
I love My 350 Legend I have a butt load of ammo for it and can still find local gun shop and even in Wal-Mart! I have a Ruger mini 30 also with a wooden stock so it’s not nearly as evil looking as my AR!
Riveting and VERY well delivered presentation. Blackout wins. Ruger Ranch makes a honey of a bolt gun. Liberty Animal 96 grain bullets are going hunting with it, with me.
At some point the "Which is better?" question starts to lose relevance. The term "statistically significant" starts to creep in. Once you get far enough down the rabbit hole, you’re arguing about which is better a gold bar that is 99.9990% pure or a gold bar that is 99.9991% pure. Objectively the latter, but for all practical purposes there is no difference. 300BO and 7.62x39 (for all practical purposes) are indistinguishable. Any appreciable differences are in the effectiveness of the rounds in meeting your specific nuanced purpose. To emphasize this point, if your primary objective is to save money, the 7.62x39 is better.
Objectively 7.62x39 ammo is readily available and cheap. 300 Blackout, not so much. Same for rifles chambered in the respective calibres. 7.62 x 39, lots of choices at very reasonable prices. 300 Blackout, again not so much.
Don't worry about the steel in the 7.62x39 jacket. Its an incredibly soft mild steel that in no way affects barrel life. It is used to conserve copper while retaining mas.
@The Guns N Glory Show He's talking about the bullets, not the cases. Not too many people trying to reload fired bullets. The bigger issue isn't the steel case, but rather the fact that most surplus steel case uses Berdan primers, not Boxer. If there were a market for it, you'd see tool and die makers releasing tools and dies made to reload steel. It's just too much of a PITA to reload Berdan primed cases for most people.
@@snek9353 Yes. 123 grain boat-tailed with a .294 G1 BC. Clocks in around 2404* out of a standard AK. At 400 yards it's just above the 1400's* range. * (correct info)
With the same weight bullet 7.62x39 has a slight velocity advantage. This matters more than with most cartridges since we are already starting slow. The entire appeal of 300 BLK is that it can be shot (suppressed) in the AR platform. I know you did not get into comparing platforms, but the AK platform is patently obviously more robust and reliable than the AR platform. I think the development of 300 BLK was a tacit admission that 7.62x39 is superior to 5.56 within their effective ranges 400 yards-ish.
I like how you say that .300 blackout is a good bit more expensive but then proceed to not give it a bad mark. Also, the argument that a banana mag take up more space therefore is worse makes no realistic sense. Your ammo capacity(in this case) is not so much limited by how much space it takes, but rather how much it weighs. The weight difference between 7.62X39 and .300 Blackout is negligent, therefore that point has very limited validity. The only thing that .300 does better is ammo quality. The ammo consistency is much better and yes, steel alloy bullets are worse for your barrel. It is indeed an a "duh" kind of thing. Although, considering that AKs are dirt cheap, you could just buy a second gun with the money you save on ammo, and this is coming from someone who shoots .308 by the can...
I have a 8.5" SBR in 300BO. I have a Dillon XL650 with the RL1500, so I'm producing 300BO cases from .223 and 5.56 with every pull of the handle. My cost for reloading when I buy components in bulk is about 22 cents a round.I do lot of subsonic loads and it is whisper quiet with my suppressor installed, a great gun to shoot and I'm reloading myself for a fraction of the cost.
300blk is a sweet round. I've just always felt it's a reloaders round. And if you arent going to suppress it, then it's a bit of a waste. The x39 and 5.56 just tickle my fancy better.
I did the hand load thing on 300blk for a while. Cutting down 223 brass and casting my own heavy bullets for subsonics through a can. Way too much work.
Without a can, 300 BLKOUT is pretty pointless. 5.56 has better long range ballistics, and 7.62x39mm is so cheap and plentiful, and its an inherently reliable case for feeding snd extraction.
@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz I disagree. The wider selection of bullets can scratch almost every itch for most shooters out of a single platform. Sure, a 5.56 can more easily reach out to further due to a flatter trajectory but with the lower ballistic coefficient it is more heavily influenced by atmospherics than blackout meaning more wind drift when getting to 500m+. Also, the blackout delivers more energy on target at these ranges than the 5.56 does. Additionally, there are states where one cannot hunt with 5.56 due to bullet diameter restrictions (arbitrary argument to some) but can with a blackout. The only leg up that x39 has is that it is cheap and abundant, blackout does everything the x39 does just as good if not better and does so with a pistol powder out of a barrel half of the length of a comparable x39. I can get reliable expansion at subsonic speed can enjoy the same if not better energy delivered on target at any range with a magazine change. I've found that 147gr M80 ball bullet loaded in blackout is the sweet spot for what I'm looking for in a small, lightweight package that still has some legs to it. If we are war gaming here, if another Battle of Lexington or something broke out today I'd be walking out my door with my blackout without hesitation. I always hear about these long range shooters but have never, not once in my life had to wait in line to shoot at the long range shooting bench at the range. I've never seen an AK on the long range firing line. I watch people shoot at 100 with their AR's and based on most peoples groupings I'm not even thinking about them at 500. Frankly, anything beyond ~400 I would be looking to maneuver on, use a battle rifle or bolt gun (likely both) for the sake of efficiency. Blackout has its place but as an early investor in the platform I recognize that it is not for everyone. I do not like the ergonomics or manual of arms for the AK platform. I don't worry about pinching pennies on ammunition. The versatility of blackout is why I love it and I always recommend it as a solid 2nd or 3rd carbine for enthusiasts.
@@apersonontheinternet8006 you did that whole wall of text to conclude with 'i don't recommend someone's first carbine be in .300 BLKOUT' Kinda shooting yourself in the foot there, arnt you?
@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz lol did I shoot myself in the foot? No, I didn't. I understand internet experts like yourself think you got everything figured out but usually I point new shooters to more affordable calibers because quantity has a quality of its own and they usually need the practice. Blackout competes with both the 5.56 and the 7.62x39 in all categories and it beats both with a competent shooter. It has a better ballistic coefficient than either of the rounds, penetrates better than both, and delivers similar if not more energy than either throughout their effective ranges. And it does all of it out of a barrel half the length of 5.56 or x39.
The price definitely has a factor, when 2 rounds are ballistically identical price and availability will then factor into the equation. When choosing between 300 blackout and 7.62x39 I choose ak round all day long because why pay more for a round that is practically the same. If you plan on an upper swap on an ar you have to factor in will the price of the upper be factored in vs price of say an ak and how many rounds will you shoot and if it will pay off.
I love 300 BO, I have two guns that shoot it. Love it suppressed, I love it super sonic. I read all the cautions about accidentally mixing calibers with 5.56 guns. I also have several 5.56 guns including a Kel-Tec RDB in 5.56. I am a re-loader, a firearms instructor I have been shooting for 25+ years. Police officer, military veteran, I know guns. I am super careful with them and the ammo. The other day I took my new RDB out for some shooting fun. I grabbed several pre-loaded magazines, my suppressor and headed to the range alone. I've done this hundreds of times before. I had been shooting the RDB 5.56 caliber for approximately 200 rounds both suppressed and un suppressed. Great fun. I changed mags and began firing more. I had fired approximately 25 rounds when the gun exploded in my face (the chamber is right next to your face) I sustained serious but non life threatening injuries. A 300 blackout round had been loaded into the mag. When did that happen, how long has that mag been mis-loaded, Did I load it before or did one of my family, friends load it before? Lots of lessons to be learned, but most importantly, no matter how careful you are, no matter how proficient you are, no matter how professional you are, if something can go wrong, it will go wrong and at the worst time possible. I survived, will you?
Good post. Most people cannot wrap their head around the fact that one's attention can lapse at almost any time. It's how car accidents happen - often for reasons so stupid and obvious, it's a wonder they happen at all. I had a serious rock climbing accident 10 years ago. I'm crippled to this day. I was a good climber, many long and serious routes under my belt. Due to a ridiculous lapse in attention due to lack of sleep on a multi day route, (solo) I made a mistake so stupid, so obvious, I didn't see how it would be possible to make it - not in my 10 years of climbing had I even come close. I still don't remember what I did, as the memory was wiped due to brain damage, but it was dumb. With things like that, it's always the most experienced guys who make dumb mistakes, usually due to exhaustion and the plain fact that they stop being afraid. That's when you get bit - or so I learned from reading climbing accident reports.
Great video and great information... I don't care based on price and availability I will take a X39 every time.. The couple of perks the 300 offers just aren't worth it to me or most.
@@200130769 When the stocks of x39 run out, that's it. One can always convert 5.56 to .300blk. That being said, I prefer the x39. Full disclosure, I neither have nor do I reload for .300blk. I do have a few K of x39 though..😁
Honestly refreshing to see a fairly unbiased opinion on this with good reasoning behind it, even if I think blackout should loose a point for cost. At the end of the day these rounds are extremely similar ballistically, and instead the difference is in what guns they are built for. The AR lower receiver doesn’t allow for the curve needed for proper 7.62x39 magazine stacks, and as a result most have issues feeding. The AR platform sort of requires a straight wall case, which blackout provides. That said, I love my 7.62x39 and the performance of both of these rounds to intermediate distance
7.62x39 is objectively better in the only way that matters, ballistically it is superior in everyway both in terms of subsonic and supersonic performance. Case design doesn't matter when you are shooting from a platform that was designed for the cartridge. Its fine if you love the 300 blackout but don't fool yourself it will not withstand the test of time.
Stopped watching when he clearly explains he doesn't know what a bonded bullet is while showing a cup-n-core bullet. Come on, this isn't hard to understand.
@@victoriazero8869 Even still the steel used to jacket russian ammo is mild steel, it is objectively softer than the gun steel that a barrel and its rifles are made from.
Magazine length doesn't impact how many you can carry; they both sit at about the same depth. You can hold three mags single stacked on your carrier with either one. Objectively speaking.
Yeah, I would have argued weight in relation to magazines made of comparable materials. There will probably not be a time where I am stacking magazines vertically on top of each other when I am carrying them. But it is hard to argue against the fact that if you took a polymer AKM magazine and a polymer AR magazine that the the AKM magazine would be heavier, if only slightly, due to its size which of course means the amount of plastic required to make it, and additional functional components like the spring being heavier. Now for like long term storage of magazines, space could be the argument, but not on body carry.
Shot my first deer with my grandpa's lever action. Missed the first window bc the safety was on so I took a standing shot in the 2nd window. As a skinny 12yr old, it almost knocked me out of the tree stand.
And what works for me is the tried and tested 7.62 x 51mm cartridge. Way more punch,more versatile,cheaper,easier to obtain,been around for decades,and is an all round more versatile calibre than the blackout.
The substantial difference is that the 7.62x39 is a caliber designed for war situations for maximum engagement distances to 300 meters and designed for longer barrels, the 300blk is a caliber designed for short-range urban guerrilla applications, where engagement distances never reach over 100 meters and it is there that gives the best, on short and silenced barrels, in fact it gets an excellent speed on 8 "barrels with heavy bullets, they are not at all comparable !! The 7.62x39 wins big on the 300blk for our use both polygon and hunting, the 300blk is the best caliber to be recharged and fulfill many functions, the main one is to use the ar platform, but it beats the 7.62x39 only if used for the purpose for which it was created, and it is not housing defense, for this you just need a pistol or a shotgun, and for the more cunning an ar15 45acp😉
@@slevinkelevra8696 why should I, enlighten yourself! The gibberish you posted is completely false. The 300BO/300AAC/300Whisper was was designed to recreate 7.63x39 ballistics in an AR platform and out of a 9” bbl with operational ranges out to 350m. It’s early designs were more toward 200-220gr projectiles and used suppressed. Lighter load, 110-150 go gave the required ballistics with 9” barrels out to 350m Which is the qualification distance that the US Army uses for the M4. Gain some knowledge before responding with more nonsense.....
@@HDBujutsu1775 The 300 aac first point was not created to match the 7.62x39 but the 300wihsper ammunition created many years earlier was copied, the 300 aac was unsuccessful because the range was as lower as the speeds and the shooting ratio compared to the 7.62x39 which is much higher and designed for 16-inch barrels, the 300 aac is designed to fire heavy bullets at subsonic speeds that had greater harmfulness than the 5.56 born, which even being an excellent bullet in certain situations not suitable for stopping the action of a threat. 300 aac are short rods with a rifling pitch suitable for a wide range of ball weight but the length of the barrels is optimized for heavy bullets that use little dust, the 300 aac was designed and not created for a purpose, shoot more damaging ammunition on ar platform and the 300 aac caliber is suitable only and exclusively for urban guerrilla operations for useful In Iraq it would have been very useful for soldiers since the penetration of a heavy bullet means that it is also possible to hit through the protective walls that the hostiles used, which 7.62 could do compared to 5.56!! It was evaluated only and exclusively for this war situation since to shoot the 7.62x39 it required the replacement of too many parts, from the simple loader, to the shutter, the barrel and the gas intake system. Then firing ammunition supplied on site was dangerous due to explosive bullets, so we looked for a similar caliber like the 300 aac that offered more advantages but was disadvantaged on the minimum ballistic performance required by the army. It's a caliber suitable only for an urban guerrilla condition as I said, I'm not confused it's what it really is, since it has 400 fps less than it takes to have approval and be used at the military level for various uses!!
After everything i've seen, i'll rely on a good quality AK in 7.62x39 unless i'm in a perfectly flat, open field with no cover, no atmospheric conditions affecting my senses....only then would I choose a straight walled cartridge
what if i told you that 30 carbine and 77 gr 5.56 have the same ballistics up to 100 yards? now, thats with the carbine having a 18" barrel vs the 16" ar barrel.
I don’t care what anyone says. 300 Blackout is not as effective and powerful as 7.62x39. And that is facts. Less drop, more penetration, more energy, more velocity, cheaper to shoot, more stopping power. There is a reason militaries use it all over the world. 300 Blackout will not even penetrate 1/4 inch mild steel plate. Not to say it won’t kill. But it is a useless round for me.
@@NoWr2Run exactly. A guy got so mad at me because I told him 7.62x39 was a more powerful round and flatter shooting. He kept trying to convince me and say 300 BO was more powerful and had more energy and more stopping power. I told him just because you say it doesn’t mean it is true. It’s just facts 7.62x 39 is more powerful. Just like 308 is more powerful than 7.62x39 and 300 Win mag is more powerful than 308 and so on.
Why not bench your bias and accept that the case is just a vessel to hold powder, and they are merely two different cartridges for different purposes. With the x39 being able to hold more powder.
Is that why 300blackout has become a popular deer round? Is that why 300blackout is effective out to 460yrds? (440yrd on a 10.5 barrel) is that why 300blackout is a far more versatile round with MANY super and subsonic loadings? the only thing x39 has in its favor is price
@@JJsGA Hello, I know a 300 blk. Will shoot 4oo+ yards, so will the 7.62x39 and both are effective enough. I think you would be better off at those distances using .308 or something else with a little more umph. Both the 7.62x39 and the blk out were both developed as battle rifles and not long range shooters.
@@bkb5668 oh of course my guy. But let's take into account most engagements are between 75 to 150yrds and I won't shoot a deer past 200yrds (I'm sighted at 100) it's more then plenty inside that. Now if I was doing a long range build sure a .308 or better!
Not very objective. The discussion is "ammo", not the gun. You are comparing gun platforms. 7.62x39 is available in match grade or can be reloaded with virtually the same bc efficient projectile. Either in a match grade gun perform good. But in military format they both are lacking. However the 7.62x39 has more case capacity and the taper is more efficient. While magazine design favors the AR platforms, the AK design does favor extraction reliability. Since both can be had in commercial standard brass cases and jackets, barrel wear is a none issue.
Ammo and platform are a pair, one is useless without the other and one influences the attributes of the other. The fundamental attributes of the AK and 7.62x39 make for a lesser tool.
@@snek9353 He doesn't specify the gun, just the cartridge. He also trys to compare military grade to target or match grade. He trys to imply MILITARY grade guns and ammo to TARGET grade guns and ammo. On a level playing field the 7.62 x 39 out preforms the 300 blackout. More case capacity Cheaper to get started into Worldwide product support Much wider options in arms and ammo as well as reload options.
@@snek9353 I stated the mag issue. But 300 win mag and 300 Weatherby also outshine the 7.62 x 39 as well as 300 blackout. As far as 30caliber goes both are on the bottom end. The 30 30 cartridge is also in the same ball field in a bolt or single gun, followed closely by 30 carbine. The point is he is biased. Not that the info is false but slightly askew.
The only reason I prefer Brass to Steal is reloading. I have had guns for 30 years shooting both steal and brass through them. No issues. I check my barrels and loading ramps often and see ware from both steal and brass. Great Video., love your stick your thumb in it shirt in the SDI info! #KentuckyBallistics, #DemolitionRanch and #BrandonHerrera got me here to your channel. Props for wearing others merch!
I have some data points to reinforce your argument between centerfire and rimfire. Paul Harrel did a video concerning rimfire reliability. He fired almost 10000 rounds of .22lr (on camera, the video is over an hour) through a variety of guns using a mix of budget and high quality ammo. Even the good stuff had a failure rate of at least 1 in 1000. By comparison a requirement during the Army's last pistol trials was an average number of shots between failures of 10000 (all the tested pistols were 9mm). Obviously the ammo has to be at least that reliable for the gun to be.
Not a big .300blk fan myself, but you left a big one out.. being able to shoot sub and supersonic makes it “objectively superior” in more tactical environments. And being able to achieve said velocities out of a shorter barrel makes it more practical in a wider array of scenarios. Yours truly, 5.56 gang
7.62x39 is my favorite round. If you don’t like what is available, load your own! Never had rim lock, even on my Mosin. I know, different round, but it is the one everybody complains about.
Only in America such discussions are contemplated, hahaha! Children all over the World love Kalash and whatever comes out of the business end! 7,62 works just fine!
Great stuff! Nice to see a technical firearm video where the guy actually knows what he's talking about!
Whoah, heck of a compliment given the source.
I need to buy a Serbu firearm.
I want to buy a gun that fires 50 cal and will blow up in my face, know where I can buy one from?
@@TMHonfire102 Vulkan Arms
@@TMHonfire102 Ah, Classic TMH.
300blk is the best caliber no if ands or buts… leave all the 7.62x39 for me
Amen
😂😂😂👍
If SHTF you will build in that category. Just saying. Three calibers? 556., 762 x 39 and 45.
@@danielnixon1976 you mis-typed 9MM. you accidently typed 45
@NoblesTX I think I shot a Ken Allen AK class with you
Am I the only one who noticed that 300 blackout didn't lose a point for cost?
Cost is relative, you get what you pay for.
@Faceless King Objectively "pice" is not an English word.
OK, objectively show that you don't get what you pay for? I can show that in many comparable circumstances 7.62x39 is more expensive. For example subsonic 220gr loadings, cheapest x39 right now is $1.60/rd, cheapest 300blk is $0.95/rd.
@Faceless King ammoseek
@@snek9353 If by get what you pay for you mean a bunch of ammo for a far better price. Ammo that has fought in more wars and conflicts and continues to do so. Then I'll stick with the good ole 762x39. The suppressed argument is a small niche one at that. Inside 350 yards, in most uses 762x39 not only gets it done but does so with more velocity and more energy.
@@ils-84 You tell yourself whatever you need to.
For me it came down to cost , excluding the reloading thing , 7.62 x 39 is half the cost of 300 black and that made up a big part of my choice to go that way .
Where do you shoot? I only have ranges to shoot at that don't allow bi metal rounds, and I cant find any "range safe" 7.62 for less than basic 300 blackout.
@@brucerm01 very rarely do I get to a range , and use it for predator control in cattle country, and even as of yesterday the 7.62 Russian was about half the cost as 300 black , and when I built my gun it was just cheaper to build at that time . That said I do like the 300 blackout but unless i decide to run a can i cant find much difference.
Why wouldn't you want the oddball cartridge that is twice as expensive and not as powerful?
@@brucerm01 it sounds like you need to find a new range.
@@slappy8941 just being silly I guess.
I love how you said, “There is more 7.62 x 39 than we will ever be able to shoot.” That sounds like a challenge. 😅
The same thing was said about American forests when Europeans first settled here.
That phrase did NOT age well. AK ammo currently more expensive than 5.56 and .223
There were around 8 BILLION rounds of 762x39 & 5.45x39 in East Germany in 1990. They " dissapeared " but are still somewhere.
The ammunition you have, and can continue to source, that fires reliably in a weapon system you are trained to proficiency in to accomplish your given mission is the practically superior round, objectively speaking.
From a purely cost/standardization perspective, 7.62 x 39 wins. Ballistically, .300 BLK and 7.62 x 39 are comparable. Where 300 BLK shines and is worth the higher cost is: short barrels and suppressors, fitting in a STANAG mag and simply requiring a separate upper for an AR/M4.
Unless you have a ak with a can. Then it's negligible. I'd obviously want both.
@@lungcanc3r666 - putting a can on an AK is a huge PITA, because it does not play nice with the gas system. You have to do a lot of messing around and customization to get it to function reliably. If you're putting the can on a normal AK (16" bbl), it now becomes as big as full-sized battle rifle in length.
@@RonDevito well barrel length isn't really an issue, since the same can be said about any rifle. You get a pistol ak or SBR it. It's really not that much of a pain if you get the OSS. No changing gas. I run the dead air wolverine with the KNS. Same tweaking needs to be had with an AR unless you want to eat gas to the face. For my ARs i run the bootleg carrier. While yea dropping a BCG in a AR isn't the same as changing a piston. Variety is always nice to have. Plus you could always build an AR in x39. While objectively yes 300blk is awesome. X39 is super cheap and subsonic stuff is as well. No fun in training with an intermediate round while paying .308 prices on subs. Obviously if money isn't an issue then none of the issues above would be one either.
762x39 does pretty good out of short barrels
@@SuperHeatherrussell - indeed it does, but the difference is - you need a separate rifle (SBR or pistol) when firing that round out of a Kalashnikov pattern rifle. The attraction to 300 BLK is swapping uppers, because at least for now with ARs - the lower is "the gun." Sure there are "AR/AK's" that fire 7.62 x 39 using AK mags in an AR type rifle - but those are a separate lower - that is a separate gun - from a standard AR lower. They also kind of combine the worst attributes of both types. Back to .300 BLK, the penalty with .300 BLK is that it can cost 4x or even more 7.62 x 39. If you shoot a lot, it's cheaper to get a short-barrel AK (actual SBR or pistol) and be done with it.
One more point; the 7.62x39 round is very robust and rugged, it seems to survive just fine in the worst storage conditions all over the 3rd world.
Rifles shooting the 7.62x39 round tend to be robust and rugged, but the platforms shooting 300 Blackout can be as well. Valid consideration, but this is a platform factor, and the video is limited to "objective" comparison of the cartridges themselves.
AR pattern rifles perform significantly better in mud and sand tests etc.
AKs seem to consistently fail with the introduction of any dirt. Garand Thumb and InRangeTV have both done videos showing this.
It's up in the air for which lasts longer without care. Probably the AK. But you shouldn't be doing that to any rifle regardless
Your point is highly subjective 🤣
Yes they are a rugged round for sure but availability and the price is absolutely ridiculous! I've gone back to shooting. 22 LR and .308 because of price and availability.
@@remainingrex9471 You truly don't have a clue.
I just learned that the 300 blackout uses pistol powder instead of rifle powder to make the burn time faster for shorter barreled rifles. Also, the 300 blackout variety of ammo is sub-sonic and supersonic and everything in between. I am not sure that 7.62x39 has the same variety. Lastly, I like the AR platform. I have 3 barrels: .223, .300AAC, and .458 SOCOM. I just mark my magazines with the round that is to be loaded and switch barrels as needed.
When you say barrels, I'm going to assume you mean uppers. Switching barrels on a AR isn't that hard but it isn't that easy either. Especially considering the aiming devices, etc., that need to be calibrated. Either way, they make 7.62x39 barrels and uppers for ARs.
@@mikehh8020 Yes. I was focusing on barrel caliber, but it is the upper that includes all the goodies.
Yep,and you can't get handgun powder or any primers here in Australia so reloading the 300 blackout is a no go at the moment. ADI which makes all our gunpowders have stated there will be no handgun powder or any primers available for the foreseeable future? Bye bye all calibres that require handgun powder for reloading. I bought 3000 hornady large rifle primers before the plandemic started so I'm good to go for my .308 and I can still get rifle powders .The other issue with 300 blackout is the fckn price ! And if you can even get them,everything is on backorder that is popular-5.56,223,300 blkout,300win mag,300 wsm,270,338 lapua,the list goes on. But not so with .308 or 30.06 or .22 lr,these calibres are in stock and are plentiful. In these times of ammo shortages you will have to go back to the basics,the old school calibres do the job all round wether it's just plinking with .22 or hunting with .308 or 30.06-all these 3 calibres cover all the basics so why bother flopping around like a fish out of water trying to get these fancy calibres when you can't even get them ! Might be different in America with ammo and reloading supplies but that's how it is here!
@@Zeitgeistprepper1967 That sucks. At one time, we could not get 22 LR due to the IRS buying a bunch of 9MM and the ammo manufacturers had to resupply.
@@sammcbride2464 yep it sucks alright! The gunsmith/ gun dealer i get all my stuff from has said the reason why reloading supplies and ammunitions are in short supply is because the military and governments are hoarding most of it in preparation for ww3! There is 300 million rounds of assorted calibres on backorder here in Australia, our population is about 23 million,and only 30 million rounds are going to reach us peasants!
I shot 762x35 exclusively for a solid year and I really enjoyed its versatility. I rolled my own the whole time, used everything from 110 gr to 220gr. Converted all my own cases from 556 which I have gallons of. It's a fun one that I've missed since I took it apart and built something else.
You couldn't afford an extra Aero or Palmetto lower for your other project but you can waste time on UA-cam instead of working a second job? Must be about 23?
@@gsyoung54 boy you sure got it all figured out
Nice presentation.
I own 7.5" 12" and 16" ARs in both calibers.
I have thousands of rounds in brass and steel casings for both.
I don't have any line-of-site from my property which would allow me better than a potential maximum of a 200 yard shot. Given that range, the two are pretty much indistinguishable, ballistically.
The cost per detonation is very different. Advantage 7.62x39. The ability to use good projectiles with multiple options is a different matter. Advantage 300BO.
The only great disparity I hear is in using them subsonicly. I have 198 soft point 7.62x39 and 220 sp 300BO. There is no difference in reliability or effectiveness that I can perceive.
In terms of an Intermediate Caliber... 6.5 Grendel is hands down my favorite. ...but I have a nice stockpile of 7.62x39. Maybe once I get myself a can/supressor I'll look into 300BO but for now 6.5 Grendel turns my crank and is my go-to hunting round for Mulies/Deer and even Cow Elk up here in the PNW.
9x39 build for suppressed, get a 5.45 and you got a collection
I went with 6.5 grendel and it's been a great hunting round
Unless you're going to be shooting suppressed subsonic, 300bo is a waste of money.
I shoot suppressed, subsonic 7.62x39 a lot cheaper than 300 bo
And grendel is the best
@@williamdux6350 yeah good luck getting 9x39 with the ammo ban
@@rodiculous9464 just make it from brass 7.62x39. During the rush I made my own.300 blackout from .223 range scrap.
I always viewed the .300 Blackout as a product improved .30 carbine. The ballistics are somewhat superior but the .300 Blackout was designed to give greater collary mass to a round fired from an AR platform. I stick with 5.56 with heavier bullets and even Barnes copper bullets for a variety of reasons. The .30 Russian short was designed primarily to defeat cover. There is NO doubt in my mind that it was inspired by the 8mm kurz round.
I have used Remington Corlokt 55 grain on deer, but not over 100 yards. It works for me.
Except it wasn't, 7.62x39 was in development since 1943, which was before the first MP/STG rifles were being fielded in any amount. The rifles that came after were not influenced by the STG in any way at all, the designers had no knowledge of them prior to designing their rifles. The reason for its design was to modernize the Red army from bolt actions to submachine guns after they saw just how effective they were in the Winter War, and in the beginning of WW2 as a full powered rifle round was not needed for most engagements since they were typically 300m or less.
@@ThrashTillDeth85 8mm Kurz was finalized and fielded (in small number prototype platforms) in 1942. Development of x39 started in 1943, but it started life in '43 as the 7.62x41mm and would not be shortened until after the war (late '45/early '46, I believe). It was almost certainly inspired by the 8mm kurz, as the aforementioned was the first intermediate cartridge invented.
That's the same way I look at supersonic .300 Blackout. It's somewhere between a high-BC .30 Carbine and the 7.62x39.
As for subsonic .300 Blackout, it's a super high-BC pistol caliber round that suppresses very well.
Question, "greater collary mass," that is the same thing as ballistic coefficient? I've never heard that term before.
"objectively" is really vague too, depends on your goals and where you're starting from. Ignoring that .300 BLK is about a $1 per round at the moment it might be a real good choice to get into 7.62 if you're already invested in a 5.56 rifle and have a lot of mags and pouches. If you don't own a rifle yet 7.62x39 might be more attractive overall due to the cost of ammo, however gun costs for x39 are insane unless you go for something like a second gen bear creek x39 build, which have had a ton of improvements recently. Also when it comes to cost we might see .300 BLK become cheaper down the road, wolf was bringing steel cased .300 BLK to the market when the pandemic messed everything up. Sub sonic ammo is also pretty easy to get in both calibers.
Personally I'm going to make a crack head move and try to cobble together an upper and a lower in 7.62x39 to have a sub $500 x39 AR. The new 28 rounder C-products x39 mags seem to work well for most people and they fit M4 mag pouches. Plus I've seen a lot of people shoot 2 MOA and better groups with x39 ARs, so that's probably better than what I'm capable of.
Good video by the way.
Objective can't be vague. Objectivity is literally looking at the tangible facts as presented and forming a conclusion based on them. Subjectivity is the term you are looking for.
@@OddBallPerformance Working retail has rotted my brain. Yeah subjective fits what I'm explaining better. What is measured in terms of being objectively better might be hard for people to agree on so I'm not sure one caliber being objectively better is something we could all ever agree on. For example, in many cases I've noticed 123'ish grain x39 is usually faster than an comparable 120 grain .300 blk, or at least the same speed. I remember PPU brass FMJ x39 clocking in a little north of 2,400 fps, that's something I have yet to see .300 blk do at a similar weight. And yes, there are more aerodynamic bullets for the .308 bore .300 blk, it has a ton of domestic support and the legacy of .308 Win bullet development to back it up. There's no reason why companies shouldn't explore making advanced low drag bullets for x39 as well though, it has a lot of potential for precision within 400 yards if drop can accurately be estimated.
With the Russian ammo import ban though both .300 blk and x39 are crippled in terms of pricing. Steel cased .300 blk might never materialize en masse and x39 has lost a massive part of it's draw. Hopefully after a year those sanctions will be lifted or we'll have a work around. In the meantime I've scraped my x39 AR plans. I suppose though one silver lining is that some people are selling the various x39 rifles for relatively cheap prices compared to previous price points. So it might be a good time to "invest" in some x39 power tools if you see a great deal, eventually they'll get cheap to feed again, and probably climb in value. I'll just be glad when things calm back down.
I did the cheap AR47 build, a BCA 2nd gen upper and a PSA lower with polished trigger. I upgraded the firing pin and it fires beautifully, I haven't measured grouping yet.
@@RyedTheLightning Hopefully x39 ammo will stay at 50¢ a round or get cheaper. I hope this ammo import ban doesn't cause AR47s to go the same way as 5.45 AR74s.
@@ds6872 I'm not saying the caliber is going to disappear. 5.45 is still available, and it's made in Ukraine, Poland, Belarus, etc, so it's not going away with the ban. However, 5.45 is as expensive or more so than 5.56, and has comparable performance but you need a special bolt and mag. There just wasn't a good reason for people to buy 5.45 ARs when a 5.56 was more cost effective overall, so the 5.45 market went back to mostly AKs only. 5.45 ARs are really hard to find and in some cases are kind of collectible now.
What I'm concerned about is if .300 BLK and x39 are really close in price there's no real compelling reason to buy an x39 AR when you could spend the same on a .300 BLK AR and use common 5.56 bolts and mags. If that happens eventually x39 ARs will be one of those firearms oddities more for collecting than shooting. x39 will still be #1 in AK circles because that makes a lot more sense to keep using as .300 BLK would be the same price but would create a ton of compatibility issues with the AK platform.
Personally I love just about all .30cal and 7.62cal cartridges I don't much discriminate when it comes to fun
here's the thing tho, 300 blackout quickly gets boring to shoot at the range because it doesn't penetrate anything. Banana ballistics channel uses 2200ftps blackout and it bounces off 1/4 steel. And blackout has limited range as the bullet starts lobbing after 300yds. 7.62x39 goes thru steel like butter LOL.
I haven't watched the video, but obviously 7.62 is better, because I say so and will not listen to anything anyone else says
You nailed it.. 7.62x39 is objectively cheaper and more available, while 300 blackout has objectively better bullet selection and more flexibility in its role.
7.62x39 is only cheaper on the low end.
@@snek9353 barnaul is high quality match ammo and it costs about $0.30 a round
@@snek9353 You were getting schooled by 7.62x39 guys in Nut n Fancy's video yesterday. Now your getting it handed to you here. Love the devotion to consistency.
@@ils-84 Ohh do tell?
@@snek9353 Nothing to tell. It's right there in black & white. Or White & black depending on your screen settings.
Another thing I love about .300AAC is that I can take my .223 brass that's lived its life and with very little effort, turn it into a .300 AAC round, literally for free. I love flexibility.
I can take my x39 brass and turn it into 22ppc, 6ppc, 220r, 6.5 grendel, 6mm arc 😉
@@livingintheLight. 6.5 Grendel and 6mm ARC have essentially the same case length, you can't use worn out 7.62x39 with split necks to load either.
@@brandonlathrop484 I blow out primer pockets before necks generally. Do you cut down your blackouts and make 9mm after you split the neck? Me either
@@livingintheLight. now do it with cheap, steel case, un primable cases...
This is the main reason why I went with 300 Blackout. I can 500 rounds of 300 blackout in a few hours with 5.56 cases.
One aspect that isn’t covered is reloading. A lot of US made 7.62x39 barrels use .308 bores making the 7.62x39 capable of shooting a much larger range of suitable bullets at a slightly higher velocity. It’s also a very easy cartridge to load for and extremely accurate in a well made rifle. The case was the parent for the PPC and Grendel cartridges.
Winchester, Federal, Remington, Hornady, etc also all produce ammo for the 7.62x39 using good quality copper jacketed bullets so it doesn’t make sense to lose a point for the BiMetal jackets.
My personal opinion is that if you want shoot suppressed subsonic ammo, get a 300BLK. If you want to hunt or just plink for cheap, get the 7.62x39. I will add that in the AR platform, the 300BLK uses a stronger bolt and extractor but I’ve yet to have one of mine break. The 300HAMR uses the 5.56 case and therefore the same bolt, extractor, and magazine. It has a big advantage on power so if you’re a reloader, components are very available and it might be a better choice. 7.62x39 has been my favorite for the past decade though simply because it does everything I need, every time.
@@joshuaduff8588 7.62x39 is .311 caliber
@@fortnite.burgerthat’s true for factory ammo and foreign barrels but as I stated above, many US made AR barrels have a .308 bore. Technically most US bullets for 7.62x39 are .310. The reloading die sets often come with expanders for both .308 and .310 bullets. I believe Ruger once made the mini 30 with a .308 barrel as well. Reloaders have the choice to use either caliber bullet when they have a .308 barrel chambered in 7.62x39.
76239= has made millions of bodies cold, 75 years old and still running
300blk= has left chat
So has .22LR🤡
Right!
Here's what I learned. 7.62 is pseudo rimmed for her pleasure and that Bakelites are life! A most fantastic video Sir! Bravo!
Lol good one
As pointed out in this thread, 7.62x39 has been in production since the mid 1940's in numerous nations. The cost of production (i.e. setting up a factory etc) has been SUNK a long time ago. This round services the arms depots of numerous countries. It was DESIGNED to be cost effective; also the steel jackets better complement the violent long stroke piston action of the AK. I've heard brass rims can get torn off under certain conditions.
This is true to some degree. But proper gas port sizing has a lot to do with that too. It's the long-stroke piston design that is most reliable in these type rifles. This is why many AR and bullpup producers have been transitioning [back] to long-stroke piston designs.
The DI system is just not a good design for most applications and no one will ever convince me otherwise. We've tweaked the M16/M4/AR enough to get it reliable enough but it still fails and lags behind most newer (and older) piston designs in trials today.
The only reason it's still around is low cost and the weird sentimental attachment Americans put on it. I absolutely loathed the thing when I was with 2nd Marine Division 2005-2009.
Guys can keep their carbon scraper chisels and gas rings...ugh. PASS
@@pennsyltuckyreb9800 AK guy, aren't ya?
@Il mio nome è Nessuno You know it....at least for intermediate cartridge fighting rifles. Yes, I'm an AK guy, particularly the AK-74.
I like more modern, piston designed AR's as well but there's no standardization of parts. All over the place with different companies.
But I don't hate the M16/M4/AR15, I just don't want to deal with it anymore.
@@pennsyltuckyreb9800 Since you seem like an expert on the subject, may I ask what you would think of an AK chambered in 6.5 Grendel? Do you think it would be a significant update? Or is it better to stick to the classic calibres?
@Il mio nome è Nessuno I'm no expert, friend. Just an experienced enthusiast. But go with whatever you shoot best is my opinion. I don't really think caliber really matters.
For me, personally, something like 6.5 Grendel wouldn't be something worth putting into an AK. Just stick with common calibers, 7.62x39, 5.45, 5.56....you'll never go wrong and always have a widely available and produced caliber. They are plenty effective enough as intermediate fighting calibers.
6.5, 6.8, etc are probably more effective in an AR type platform and even then are expensive and niche calibers.
The versatility of options of the 300 blackout allows for subsonic suppressed (220 grain) for home defense without going deaf and concern about over penetration. Lighter grain high velocity allows for a great hunting round at typical distances of most Americans. One weapon two different rounds and you are set. Buy a 5.56 upper and to shoot cheap rounds for practice/plinking.
It really comes down to what I'm using it for. 8.5 in 300 AAC suppressed shooting 220 grain subsonic is my go to for home defense because its MUCH more quiet and still leaves a big hole without collateral outside of that target.
My daughter graduated from RU a few years ago.... Who cares, I know.
Are you local here? And if so do you have a decent place to get your firearms out?
I have grown to really dislike the national forest range.
Ya .45 acp would do the exact same thing.
@@whatsmolly5741 But with much less energy and penetration
I have to say, when you’re talking about a round for military platforms, availability is ABSOLUTELY a relevant, objectively IMPORTANT data point. If you can’t get the ammo to the field, it’s literally useless. What you’ve done is like a classic physics class problem. Let’s assume no friction and no other forces outside the problem. In other words, let’s not look at this from a perspective of reality. Also, if a bullet shoots “tiny little groups, even out of a trash gun” you’re gonna have to do better than “but muh BCC’s”. Seriously, the reason there’s still not a huge availability for .300black is that it’s just not a big enough improvement to bother with.
Exactly. I have six calibers, all available in bulk, with lots of each. I keep some for barter if necessary.
No the reason its not everywhere is because it wasnt made for the most numerous rifle ever made and not a standardized military cartridge. Still not better than 300BLK
There ya go using common sense and live world realities. That is just incomprehensible to some. LOL.
The 300BLK was designed specifically for the military... So the argument that it isn't as popular due to military selection doesn't make sense, additionally a majority of countries don't use a weapon that is chambered in 7.62x39. The 7.62 is better at delivery of energy as it holds more ft/lbs of energy, however it is a less accurate round that can't be suppressed as easily. To each their own, but most people will take the performance of the 300 blk out of their AR platform without spending a large amount to convert it or buy a mutant rifle with proprietary parts.
@@Fin.mint. It's the same F!@king Bullet!! the only difference is the cartridge. Subsonic shmubsonic. It's the platform and no it was not designed for the military although it may have been used bo certain units after it's development. The only difference is the cartridge. Learn something.
Great and fair comparison, with one exception. The 7.62x39 is available in real copper jacketed rounds, so the argument that the bullets are steel jacketed is moot. It can be purchased either way, plus more. Thank you for taking on this comparison. I enjoyed watching.
Plus that ding on the bi-metal jackets makes the point that some of us buy reputable brass 7.62x39 for reasons beyond reloading which, btw, neither my Zastava AK or SKS beat up brass so bad it's not reloadable (my PTR32 on the other hand...). As for the comment on 7.62x39 AR mags, yeah, they're kinda silly. But so what. The pig doesn't care and I have 8 by 3 different manufacturers. Not a single failure to feed or drop out once I went to an Aero lower.
Bringing the mere existence of bi-metal jacket rounds as a negative was the fall. Talking about the beating the cases take from AK/SKS rifles making them non-reloadable was the setup. Dismissively bashing 7.62x39 AR mags as unworthy of their existence was to keep the 7.62x39 inextricably linked to AK/SKS rifles. but also a cheap shot. I chuckled when he brought up both those arguments but it was obvious when he reached to bi-metal jackets as a negative that he tried to box that one in first.
Still, otherwise fun. Next up, 7.62x51 NATO is objectively superior to 7.62x54r... Please!
@@411DL Had a 7.62x39 AR Pistol. Had mags by different mfgs and just couldn't run consistently regardless of what I did. Converted everything over to a KS47 receiver/BCG set and it runs like a top. Kinda harsh though.
@@thinkharder9332 Funny, my KS47 with a 7 and a 1/2 inch barrel runs like a freaking top.
@@thinkharder9332 And I have a 300 blackout AR pistol as well. Both run real well. I'm not interested in a 5.56 AR pistol because I think the short barrel loses too much. And yes, I know what dwell time is.
Yah There has been a larger selection of 7.62x39 bullets for sale recently. I have purchased three different hunting loads that shoot great.
W/o going the route of paying an extortion fee for a can.
Any real benefit of 300 is out done by the availability and cost of x39
Platform.
Yes, .300 for can purps only...I reload and love .300 (it’s super accurate)...and 208 grain hornys are ear safe with 5.5” Thunderbeast
@@foodog3026 Not really what I was getting at. That 300 works well in the AR15 platform including standard mags, and works very well with very short barrels, gives it advantages even without a can. Something like a Sig Rattler or Maxim PDX paired with a Surefire 60rd mag is a heck of a little powerhouse in a very small package and something that 300BLK excels at over any other cartridge even without a can.
@@snek9353 oh, ok...sorry for ruining your post...
@Allen Shaughnessy They've come a long way but they still have issues. The bolt breakage issues make for a setup too unreliable to really count on. That or you have to go to a large(AR10) bolt setup like the CMMG which makes it larger. Then of course there's also no bolt hold open and rock-n-lock still sucks.
7.62x39 is a lower pressure cartridge so in very short barrels it's still going to fall behind the 300BLK.
7.62x39 lacks bullet selection, there's significant advantage to the wide selection of all copper expanding or fragmenting bullets available for 300BLK.
That 60rd mag might be great, it might be junk, IDK. I do know that the surefire mags work great and are significantly shorter making for a more compact setup.
Personally I don’t really care for either cartridge. If I had to pick one I guess it would be
7.62x39 Probably because availability
What do you prefer instead of one of these rounds?
Many many others
I bought my 7.62x39 before 300Black came out.
7.62x39 was originally designed for 174 grain bullets 300 for 220. So 300 is better for subsonic.
YES
I absolutely LOVE my 300 Blackout AR pistol! Im also very glad I stockpiled some 300blk ammo a few years ago, that stuff is expensive today! Honestly people who crap on the 300 blackout only do so because they dont have experience with it (more than just a day or few times shooting it) or because of how much the ammo is (now). For CQB I dont think anything come close to 300blk. Id put my 300bk pistol up against just about anything. In all seriousness though, it's about having fun and being SAFE with what you own. For home defense / SHTF go with what you shoot best with and GET TRAINED with it. Go get get some good First Aid training too! Great video and info BTW, you do an excellent job VSO Gun Channel!!!
Both are equally good cartridges in their own way, but were designed for different purposes. 300 Blackout is better suited for suppression and the AR platform.
300blk was developed specifically with an AR-15 in mind and specifically to use existing AR-15 magazines.
Both rounds can be built for suppression. Both cases can be stuffed with a heavy-ass bullet and reduced powder charge to both propel the bullet at high subsonic speed but also to cycle the rifle. At least the suppressor should be selected correctly for the job, or else it won't trap enough gas at sufficient pressure to operate the weapon. It's easier to do that with an AR as it uses lighter bolt carrier, but that's a rifle thing, not caliber or the round thing.
I was under the impression the 300BO was a commercialized version of the 300 Whisper.. (which i own one of the original guns) And it was designed for a very specific purpose. and excels very well at it.
It was designed at the request of SOF for superior ballistics out of a short barrel compared to 5.56 and was also designed to be better at being suppressed with subsonic bullets.
It, and the non-trademarked .300BO clone of it is a one-trick pony.
@@paulbarclay4114 I mean it's not like Socom squads have already stated many cartridges that have been tested that vastly surpass the .300blk
@@paulbarclay4114 you have 375 Socom, 375 raptor, 6.5 Grendel, and even 350 legend which all can out preform the 300 blackout in any load or barrel length. These are a few examples.
@@williamster2015 really dude....350 legend? thats gonna fail hilariously out of a 5" barrel. lights and sounds, thats it.
You can't properly compare these without considering what they were designed for. The 7.62x39 was designed to be mass produced for volume fire at close ranges and accurate (enough) fire up to 300 meters. It was designed to equip the Soviet army as a front line combat weapon. The .300 Blackout was designed for achieving ballistics similar to the 7.62x39 in the M4 carbine. The .300 Blackout is a 30 caliber round designed to work in AR platforms because the 7.62x39 and AR's don't really play nice together. The .300 Blackout is superior for that application. The 7.62x39 is superior in the application it was designed for. Use the tool that best fits your requirements.
Your the only one that gets it! Bravo sir bravo👏
300 blackout is known to have better ballistics past 200 yards
The whole point of the video is an OBJECTIVE comparison. The circumstance of "purpose" happens to be quite SUBJECTIVE.
@@benbolduc7534 Purpose always exists behind design. If not, it's just mindless abstraction.
The cmmg has mastered the ar platform for 7.62x39.
I have one. It’s extremely accurate and have never had a jam or other malfunction in 4 thousand rounds. Just saying......
7.62x39 isn’t objectively better, it’s generally better. 300 blackout is a specialty cartridge. 7.62x39 is a reliable workhorse.
300blk is literally a 7.62x39 with minor tweaks. Heavy round, easily suppressed, decent velocity out of short barrels. Price it most important for 99% of Gun owners. 300blk is too bougie for the average consumer.
It's the 30-06 vs 308 debate all over again except the shorter case can be more useful with the larger range of projectile weights.
False. Short action and long action; while 308 has similar ballistic, objectively, 30-06 has better ballistics.
It's not that much better. If they get charted out together they are all in the same spot.
@@thomashalley7258 not exactly 30 06 can do 2950with 165grn ammo. 308 2550fps. Not the same. At All
@@justinlance4174 so 400 fps difference is your reasoning why they arent the same at all?
I dont see how the shorter brass length makes it more useful for the wide variety of bullet weight. If anything the opposite is true
Yeah I'm just getting into reloading and being able to go from a 110gr .30 caliber bullet that shoots at 2200 to a 220gr bullet that runs at 1050 is amazing. The selection of bullets for 300 blackout is insane.
Same bullet selection as every other 30 caliber
I do the same with 7.62x39........ the 300blk is easier to get the extreme pills to cycle autoloader, though.
300blk lovers (and I do love the cartridge!) are famous for saying it is better than the x39 for something the x39 also does. ....... lol.
Both are GREAT for their intended purposes. Neither is best for the other's intended purposes!
You can’t find any right now though
@@200130769 Except x39
Once again it's the same freaking bullet!!!! As a matter of fact X39 can shoot any 300BO bullet but a 300BO can't shoot any X39 bullet so you got it backwards there Skippy
The fact that you showed a chart with the 7.62x39 having 15% more velocity, then admitted that velocity is really important, but then somehow concluded the two were basically equivalent just made me turn off the video. You had your mind made up before you even started making the video and were just looking to justify picking your favorite. 7.62x39 has a crappy selection of bullets, which aren't very good for BC, but it definitely has more power. 300 BLK is just too underpowered for my preferences. There's just not enough room for the powder required to get a bullet that large up to an acceptable velocity for me.
Which is because 300BLK is optimized towards subsonic loadings.
@@snek9353 so why even compare it to anything else if it’s such a niche cartridge?
@@DominicPaz As a fun intellectual exercise.
I built a 7.62x40wt for this reason. 2,500+fps with a 125 grain pill
@@colsoncustoms8994 I'd like your opinion, you're biased but 7.62x40wt or 300HAM'R?
My PWS MK116 mod2 in 7.62x39 has never had an issue. Accurate and reliable (even with steel), good ergos. Great ballistics. Cheap to shoot. No complaints here.
Well done! I do like BOTH. Unfortunately I only have a “stockpile” of the STEEL stuff..X 39 that is. Edited to add: It’s imperative that we mention ONLY ONE was designed to be suppressed though. THAT’S WHERE the 300 BLK shines the brightest..
7.62X39 over the blackout
Wow. You really added a lot to the discussion
All day
Why a minus for the 7.62 bullet on the content of projectiles. You've said it yourself that the steel jacket is covered with copper, so no metal on metal contact is provided?
How long ya think that copper lasts going down the barrel?
@@snek9353 Long enough for wear to not be an issue on the barrel from steel contact. It's why the copper is there.
@@dashikashi4734 Are you sure?
@@snek9353 Yes. Ever recovered and examined one? The copper remains intact.
@@snek9353 Most rifling depths are around .005(+/-.001), while copper plating on most steel case from the various ammo plants are between .008-.010
The steel jacket never meets the rifling.
The appeal to 300BLK for me is the subsonic option. Sure, a heavier, slower projectile will not travel as far, but for CQ operations, the 300BLK does the job.
A suppressed 300 BLKOUT rifle can really be thought of as "an improved MP5SD"
I trained to fight the communist armies of the world for 27yrs of my life. And while the x39 cartridges are more numerous, it still comes down to weapon adaptability. Meaning the AR platform rifles are literally like the Lego building blocks of the firearm industry. You build your AR lower the way you want, and you can even swap out the butt stock to something else later. Now you have the base, that all you have to do is change the upper and now you can shoot several different calibers from one lower. Most efficient firearm in the world hands down.
At least we can all agree 30 caliber is better than 22🤷
Interchangeability with AR platform weapons and bullet weight range sold me on 300BO (and yes, I also own an AK)
J/S
Yup, that's what sold me on 300 bo
So is the 7.62
pseudo science is always interesting . But if you compare apples with apples the 7.62 x39 is 200FPS faster for any given weight of projectile or if you like 15 grains heavier at any given speed and for us civilians that's all we need to know . The difference doesn't sound like a lot but as you get down in power its important. As far as a military cartridge the 7.62 was replaced by the Russians and the 300blk will never have a large military uptake. The 300blk is a reincarnation of the 30 carbine . If you are shooting tin cans of the back fence it probably doesn't mater but I've used both for hunting and the difference is real , their are times when I really wanted to chuck the 300 into the swamp.
Nice. This is real information someone who has actually used it for hunting. Real world experience. Not a guy on the range in perfect conditions shooting paper.
7.62x39 is still used by Russian alpha groups out of shorter barrels for raiding buildings, because it doesn't lose much velocity at all out of short barrels , also Russia just made.the new ak15. European nations still use it , finland being one of them, no country has adopted 300 blk but many use 7.62x39 . it isn't going anywhere
But, will those bullets have the same construction as .300 AAC? 7.62x39 doesn't use a perfect .308 projectile. But the difference between 7.62x39 and .300 AAC is comparable to the difference between a .308 and a .30-'06. Which is a decent amount in my opinion. For hunting, I think the 7.62x39 knocks on the door of a .30-30. For hunting, suppression, more bullet selection, use of AR platforms, the .300 is the better pick. I like both though.
Well said and spot on!
I mean, if the 300 BLK didn't take it down you must've been shooting him wrong. Many videos of people taking large deer and boar with supers. I used a steel case 147 Gr hollow point on a beautiful 8 pointer last year. 1 shot, made it 40 yards. Hate to be "that guy" however. Happy Hunting.
300blk subsonic is closer to 9x39mm. While 300blk supersonic is closer to 7.62x39mm. Personally, I say "buy them all". Best chance to cover all criteria.
I'd say 9x39 is better, considering that both are subsonic the 9mm is a bigger bullet with the same velocity so it throws more energy downrange. 9x39 bullets have very high sectional density and also have tungsten penetrators that are extremely sharp (they'll cut your skin) so they don't just stop dead in their tracks they will actually punch through barriers and nij level 3 body armor.
This is with modern rounds. Older soviet era loads have slightly less velocity but still make up for it over subsonic .300 as they have steel cores and higher density vs the softer lead core of .300.
@@TurgzUhm what, well yes but actually no.
Yes by the fact of 9x39 being able to have a heavier bullet it'll put more energy down range. But that's the extent of the yes in this comment.
No, that's not what sectional density is, due to the larger caliber 9x39 has less sectional density.
Just where in the US do I buy 9x39 with tungsten penetrators. That the Russians once made such a thing is moot here in the US. BTW there's plenty of .308 bullets currently being made in the US with better/similar construction.
Steel is LESS dense than lead.
@@snek9353 That would be very true on the 9x39mm bullet choices in the US. The only real commercial offerings for 9x39mm are lead and bi-metal jacket variants. None of them have core design and hardness like the original Russian designs.
@@snek9353 Caliber itself has nothing to do with sectional density. SD is defined as a bullet's mass divided by it's cross sectional area (CSA is an area whereas diameter is a linear measurement). In other words, the longer and heavier the bullet the higher it's SD. The higher the SD the more it will retain momentum both in the air and in a target, which means it better retains both energy and BC downrange.
The 9x39 bullet is long and heavy, so it actually has high SD. It retains it's energy and bc better downrange than .300 does no matter what load is used.
You imply it doesn't go through barriers and armor, which is false for the reasons i mentioned. It goes through barriers and armor. considering it's subsonic and has the edge over .300 in this regard.
As for buying the tungsten tips, you won't be buying anything indictive of what the military round should be anyway, you'll only be buying a watered down FMJ hunting bullet.
We are comparing the rounds as they are, not what's available to buy in one country at this moment in time. Otherwise we would be judging all these rounds relative to the firearms that use them which will skewer the results of the ammo itself.
"Steel is less dense than lead" What has this got to do with anything? Sectional density in context of a bullet is again mass divided by CSA whereas density by itself is mass divided by volume. Calculating SD will give a different answer to calculating the density of the same object. It makes no difference if lead is more dense than steel as the 9x39 bullet is still heavier than .300.
@@BuffRANGE That's true, but we are comparing the ammo as they are not by what's available to buy in one country at this moment in time.
Just watched 300 vs 7.62x39 on steel plate. 300 did terrible. 300 price is terrible. About twice as expensive as something with similar ballistics. Kinda explained why we ain't going from 5.56 to 300. 223 did a better job than the 300 on steel plate. 7.62x39 penetrates a lot better than 5.56. I'm not gonna waste my time converting to 300.
300 blackout (7.62x35) subsonic ammo is quiet with a suppressor, and louder and more powerful with supersonic ammo. The 7.62x39 round is an old, long-proven round that doesn't offer subsonic ammo. Shooting it with a suppressor is quieter than shooting it without a suppressor. Both rounds are good. However, when the new 8.6 blackout (8.6x43) round is perfected and the price comes down, it will replace many 300 blackout (7.62x35) and 7.62x39 guns.
Both millitary and civilian subsonic 7.62*39 ammo exist and in available. Modern AKs with modern suppressors works fine with subsonic ammo without any need for gas block adjustments.
300BK have a huge flaw that makes it vastly inferior to 7.62*39 - it can be loaded and fired from 5.56*45 riffle resulting in catastrophic failure, that may lead to injury or death of the shooter.
300BK was designed for US civilian market and for civilian shooters. Many of them won't be happy if they need to buy another gun and separate set of magazines, and super excited when they can save some of their precious cash and use existing mags and AR lowers.
But it's not an issue for millitary - operators don't buy their stuff out of their own pocket , single peace of the NV tech costs more that 2-3 fully kited guns. But they do use their weapons in less then relaxed environment and at this moment a single 300BK round that ended in your 5.56 magazine may lead very sad results.
Weapon that can be assembled incorrectly is a bad weapon. Ammunition that may lead to a catastrophic destruction of a weapon is a bad ammo
It's like your trying to ruin my day... all jokes aside this is great information with some thoughtful insights, thank you for putting it out there!
Since developing my own 350 legend sub load with a 245 grain flat point I’ve grown quite fond of the caliber. My ar will run anything from 115 grain supers to 245 grain subs accurately
What style upper? Barrel twist and length plz! Looking at building a hunting setup in 350Legend
But why? Hunting? I don't see the point of that cartridge other then hunting in some states that require straight wall cartridges.
I love My 350 Legend I have a butt load of ammo for it and can still find local gun shop and even in Wal-Mart! I have a Ruger mini 30 also with a wooden stock so it’s not nearly as evil looking as my AR!
@@jonathank7394 straight wall catridges can be reloaded for a LOOOOONG time vs necked cartridges.
Just like the 9mm the 7.62x39 has proven itself for years. 👍🏾
Fact: I love 7.62x39. Data: I have an American made AK-103. Check and Mate. Your move Forest.
I think 5.56, 7.62, and .300 blk are all wonderful intermediate cartridges, and have their place
Except you could argue 5.56 lacks stopping power compared to 7.62x39. I would label it as a beginner cartridge.
I would venture to say that for the velocity and range at which both of these cartridges are typically used, Ballistic Coefficient is a moot point.
"typically used" yes, but for the atypical it absolutely matters.
In that general 0-300 meter 'point and click" range, sure.
Riveting and VERY well delivered presentation. Blackout wins.
Ruger Ranch makes a honey of a bolt gun. Liberty Animal 96 grain bullets are going hunting with it, with me.
At some point the "Which is better?" question starts to lose relevance. The term "statistically significant" starts to creep in. Once you get far enough down the rabbit hole, you’re arguing about which is better a gold bar that is 99.9990% pure or a gold bar that is 99.9991% pure. Objectively the latter, but for all practical purposes there is no difference. 300BO and 7.62x39 (for all practical purposes) are indistinguishable.
Any appreciable differences are in the effectiveness of the rounds in meeting your specific nuanced purpose. To emphasize this point, if your primary objective is to save money, the 7.62x39 is better.
Objectively 7.62x39 ammo is readily available and cheap. 300 Blackout, not so much.
Same for rifles chambered in the respective calibres. 7.62 x 39, lots of choices at very reasonable prices. 300 Blackout, again not so much.
Don't worry about the steel in the 7.62x39 jacket. Its an incredibly soft mild steel that in no way affects barrel life. It is used to conserve copper while retaining mas.
@The Guns N Glory Show He's talking about the bullets, not the cases. Not too many people trying to reload fired bullets.
The bigger issue isn't the steel case, but rather the fact that most surplus steel case uses Berdan primers, not Boxer. If there were a market for it, you'd see tool and die makers releasing tools and dies made to reload steel. It's just too much of a PITA to reload Berdan primed cases for most people.
I actually think 300 blackout is the better cartridge.
But 7.62x39 has better prices.
Only for the cheap stuff, and only for now.
@@snek9353 Barnaul is match grade and goes for $0.30 a round.
@@ils-84 Match grade, lol.
@@snek9353 Yes. 123 grain boat-tailed with a .294 G1 BC. Clocks in around 2404* out of a standard AK. At 400 yards it's just above the 1400's* range.
* (correct info)
With the same weight bullet 7.62x39 has a slight velocity advantage. This matters more than with most cartridges since we are already starting slow. The entire appeal of 300 BLK is that it can be shot (suppressed) in the AR platform. I know you did not get into comparing platforms, but the AK platform is patently obviously more robust and reliable than the AR platform. I think the development of 300 BLK was a tacit admission that 7.62x39 is superior to 5.56 within their effective ranges 400 yards-ish.
I like how you say that .300 blackout is a good bit more expensive but then proceed to not give it a bad mark. Also, the argument that a banana mag take up more space therefore is worse makes no realistic sense. Your ammo capacity(in this case) is not so much limited by how much space it takes, but rather how much it weighs. The weight difference between 7.62X39 and .300 Blackout is negligent, therefore that point has very limited validity. The only thing that .300 does better is ammo quality. The ammo consistency is much better and yes, steel alloy bullets are worse for your barrel. It is indeed an a "duh" kind of thing. Although, considering that AKs are dirt cheap, you could just buy a second gun with the money you save on ammo, and this is coming from someone who shoots .308 by the can...
I have a 8.5" SBR in 300BO. I have a Dillon XL650 with the RL1500, so I'm producing 300BO cases from .223 and 5.56 with every pull of the handle. My cost for reloading when I buy components in bulk is about 22 cents a round.I do lot of subsonic loads and it is whisper quiet with my suppressor installed, a great gun to shoot and I'm reloading myself for a fraction of the cost.
300blk is a sweet round. I've just always felt it's a reloaders round. And if you arent going to suppress it, then it's a bit of a waste. The x39 and 5.56 just tickle my fancy better.
I did the hand load thing on 300blk for a while. Cutting down 223 brass and casting my own heavy bullets for subsonics through a can. Way too much work.
Without a can, 300 BLKOUT is pretty pointless.
5.56 has better long range ballistics, and 7.62x39mm is so cheap and plentiful, and its an inherently reliable case for feeding snd extraction.
@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz I disagree. The wider selection of bullets can scratch almost every itch for most shooters out of a single platform. Sure, a 5.56 can more easily reach out to further due to a flatter trajectory but with the lower ballistic coefficient it is more heavily influenced by atmospherics than blackout meaning more wind drift when getting to 500m+. Also, the blackout delivers more energy on target at these ranges than the 5.56 does. Additionally, there are states where one cannot hunt with 5.56 due to bullet diameter restrictions (arbitrary argument to some) but can with a blackout.
The only leg up that x39 has is that it is cheap and abundant, blackout does everything the x39 does just as good if not better and does so with a pistol powder out of a barrel half of the length of a comparable x39. I can get reliable expansion at subsonic speed can enjoy the same if not better energy delivered on target at any range with a magazine change. I've found that 147gr M80 ball bullet loaded in blackout is the sweet spot for what I'm looking for in a small, lightweight package that still has some legs to it.
If we are war gaming here, if another Battle of Lexington or something broke out today I'd be walking out my door with my blackout without hesitation. I always hear about these long range shooters but have never, not once in my life had to wait in line to shoot at the long range shooting bench at the range. I've never seen an AK on the long range firing line. I watch people shoot at 100 with their AR's and based on most peoples groupings I'm not even thinking about them at 500. Frankly, anything beyond ~400 I would be looking to maneuver on, use a battle rifle or bolt gun (likely both) for the sake of efficiency.
Blackout has its place but as an early investor in the platform I recognize that it is not for everyone. I do not like the ergonomics or manual of arms for the AK platform. I don't worry about pinching pennies on ammunition. The versatility of blackout is why I love it and I always recommend it as a solid 2nd or 3rd carbine for enthusiasts.
@@apersonontheinternet8006 you did that whole wall of text to conclude with 'i don't recommend someone's first carbine be in .300 BLKOUT'
Kinda shooting yourself in the foot there, arnt you?
@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz lol did I shoot myself in the foot? No, I didn't. I understand internet experts like yourself think you got everything figured out but usually I point new shooters to more affordable calibers because quantity has a quality of its own and they usually need the practice.
Blackout competes with both the 5.56 and the 7.62x39 in all categories and it beats both with a competent shooter. It has a better ballistic coefficient than either of the rounds, penetrates better than both, and delivers similar if not more energy than either throughout their effective ranges. And it does all of it out of a barrel half the length of 5.56 or x39.
Well at this point they're close enough to the same price to say screw it. 🤷♂️
Thanks sleepy Joe...
The price definitely has a factor, when 2 rounds are ballistically identical price and availability will then factor into the equation. When choosing between 300 blackout and 7.62x39 I choose ak round all day long because why pay more for a round that is practically the same. If you plan on an upper swap on an ar you have to factor in will the price of the upper be factored in vs price of say an ak and how many rounds will you shoot and if it will pay off.
Well I own three weapons that fire 7.62x39 and three that fire 5.56, while I do not own a single blackout. So, 7.62 it is...
I love 300 BO, I have two guns that shoot it. Love it suppressed, I love it super sonic. I read all the cautions about accidentally mixing calibers with 5.56 guns. I also have several 5.56 guns including a Kel-Tec RDB in 5.56. I am a re-loader, a firearms instructor I have been shooting for 25+ years. Police officer, military veteran, I know guns. I am super careful with them and the ammo.
The other day I took my new RDB out for some shooting fun. I grabbed several pre-loaded magazines, my suppressor and headed to the range alone. I've done this hundreds of times before.
I had been shooting the RDB 5.56 caliber for approximately 200 rounds both suppressed and un suppressed. Great fun. I changed mags and began firing more. I had fired approximately 25 rounds when the gun exploded in my face (the chamber is right next to your face) I sustained serious but non life threatening injuries. A 300 blackout round had been loaded into the mag. When did that happen, how long has that mag been mis-loaded, Did I load it before or did one of my family, friends load it before?
Lots of lessons to be learned, but most importantly, no matter how careful you are, no matter how proficient you are, no matter how professional you are, if something can go wrong, it will go wrong and at the worst time possible.
I survived, will you?
Good post. Most people cannot wrap their head around the fact that one's attention can lapse at almost any time. It's how car accidents happen - often for reasons so stupid and obvious, it's a wonder they happen at all. I had a serious rock climbing accident 10 years ago. I'm crippled to this day. I was a good climber, many long and serious routes under my belt. Due to a ridiculous lapse in attention due to lack of sleep on a multi day route, (solo) I made a mistake so stupid, so obvious, I didn't see how it would be possible to make it - not in my 10 years of climbing had I even come close. I still don't remember what I did, as the memory was wiped due to brain damage, but it was dumb. With things like that, it's always the most experienced guys who make dumb mistakes, usually due to exhaustion and the plain fact that they stop being afraid. That's when you get bit - or so I learned from reading climbing accident reports.
This is specifically why I got rid of the 300, not worth having both platforms in the same house. Thanks for sharing and glad you are okay.
7.62 x 39 has superior muzzle energy and range. That's pretty much all that matters. IMO.
Ah good sir.. you forget price. The almighty dollar is a deciding factor and makes it all the sweeter.
@@randomidiot8142 That too.
x39 drops like a rock at 300.
Great video and great information... I don't care based on price and availability I will take a X39 every time.. The couple of perks the 300 offers just aren't worth it to me or most.
From a reloaders POV, .300blk is superior. From a "I've got 15k rounds of x39 stashed" the M43 Soviet is the clear winner.
Wrong. The 7.62x39 is superior. It has over twice the range and 15% higher velocity. And I also reload.
@@200130769 Quite. And the Lehigh 150gr Match Copper Solid 7.62x39 BC is .510, vs the 300 BO MCS BC of .513...giving the x39 the clear win.
@@200130769 When the stocks of x39 run out, that's it. One can always convert 5.56 to .300blk. That being said, I prefer the x39.
Full disclosure, I neither have nor do I reload for .300blk. I do have a few K of x39 though..😁
@@KRN762 I have a feeling that if stock of x39 runs out, so will most of the others. Not to mention you can reload x39 too
@@200130769 twice the range? 7.62x39 drops like a rock past 300 yards.
Honestly refreshing to see a fairly unbiased opinion on this with good reasoning behind it, even if I think blackout should loose a point for cost. At the end of the day these rounds are extremely similar ballistically, and instead the difference is in what guns they are built for. The AR lower receiver doesn’t allow for the curve needed for proper 7.62x39 magazine stacks, and as a result most have issues feeding. The AR platform sort of requires a straight wall case, which blackout provides. That said, I love my 7.62x39 and the performance of both of these rounds to intermediate distance
7.62x39 is objectively better in the only way that matters, ballistically it is superior in everyway both in terms of subsonic and supersonic performance. Case design doesn't matter when you are shooting from a platform that was designed for the cartridge. Its fine if you love the 300 blackout but don't fool yourself it will not withstand the test of time.
Stopped watching when he clearly explains he doesn't know what a bonded bullet is while showing a cup-n-core bullet. Come on, this isn't hard to understand.
He also used cheap tula/wolf with steel jacket/bimetal coat. Copper plated AK rounds exist so it's unfair judgment.
@@victoriazero8869 Even still the steel used to jacket russian ammo is mild steel, it is objectively softer than the gun steel that a barrel and its rifles are made from.
Magazine length doesn't impact how many you can carry; they both sit at about the same depth. You can hold three mags single stacked on your carrier with either one. Objectively speaking.
Yeah, I would have argued weight in relation to magazines made of comparable materials. There will probably not be a time where I am stacking magazines vertically on top of each other when I am carrying them. But it is hard to argue against the fact that if you took a polymer AKM magazine and a polymer AR magazine that the the AKM magazine would be heavier, if only slightly, due to its size which of course means the amount of plastic required to make it, and additional functional components like the spring being heavier. Now for like long term storage of magazines, space could be the argument, but not on body carry.
300 blk is great. So is 7.62x39. Pick them up and shoot. It’s not better if it’s just sitting in the box collecting dust.
Cost is absolutely a part of the equation. Can't shoot what you can't afford
The 7.62x39 cartridge is the only caliber i can neck size when reloading. Works flawlessly in my SKS and with noticeable increase in accuracy.
Deep down in our hearts, we all know it’s the .30-30
30-30 is hard hitting dude!
@@mikehancho1613 if only .30-30 were also made as a rimless cartridge too
I like shooting my marlin 336 it's what I grew up on
Shot my first deer with my grandpa's lever action. Missed the first window bc the safety was on so I took a standing shot in the 2nd window. As a skinny 12yr old, it almost knocked me out of the tree stand.
@@elijahaitaok8624 30 remington?
And what works for me is the tried and tested 7.62 x 51mm cartridge. Way more punch,more versatile,cheaper,easier to obtain,been around for decades,and is an all round more versatile calibre than the blackout.
Wow! Science. Big fan of ballistics as a whole. Thanks for the video. I'm 7:39 in. Now back to your previously scheduled programming...😊
Cost v benefit. Juice vs squeeze. Objectively 7.62x39 gets the W. Everything else is yeahbut.
The substantial difference is that the 7.62x39 is a caliber designed for war situations for maximum engagement distances to 300 meters and designed for longer barrels, the 300blk is a caliber designed for short-range urban guerrilla applications, where engagement distances never reach over 100 meters and it is there that gives the best, on short and silenced barrels, in fact it gets an excellent speed on 8 "barrels with heavy bullets, they are not at all comparable !! The 7.62x39 wins big on the 300blk for our use both polygon and hunting, the 300blk is the best caliber to be recharged and fulfill many functions, the main one is to use the ar platform, but it beats the 7.62x39 only if used for the purpose for which it was created, and it is not housing defense, for this you just need a pistol or a shotgun, and for the more cunning an ar15 45acp😉
🤣🤣🤣🤣you are highly confused.....
@@HDBujutsu1775 please enlighten me then!!!
@@slevinkelevra8696 why should I, enlighten yourself! The gibberish you posted is completely false. The 300BO/300AAC/300Whisper was was designed to recreate 7.63x39 ballistics in an AR platform and out of a 9” bbl with operational ranges out to 350m. It’s early designs were more toward 200-220gr projectiles and used suppressed. Lighter load, 110-150 go gave the required ballistics with 9” barrels out to 350m Which is the qualification distance that the US Army uses for the M4. Gain some knowledge before responding with more nonsense.....
@@HDBujutsu1775 The 300 aac first point was not created to match the 7.62x39 but the 300wihsper ammunition created many years earlier was copied, the 300 aac was unsuccessful because the range was as lower as the speeds and the shooting ratio compared to the 7.62x39 which is much higher and designed for 16-inch barrels, the 300 aac is designed to fire heavy bullets at subsonic speeds that had greater harmfulness than the 5.56 born, which even being an excellent bullet in certain situations not suitable for stopping the action of a threat. 300 aac are short rods with a rifling pitch suitable for a wide range of ball weight but the length of the barrels is optimized for heavy bullets that use little dust, the 300 aac was designed and not created for a purpose, shoot more damaging ammunition on ar platform and the 300 aac caliber is suitable only and exclusively for urban guerrilla operations for useful In Iraq it would have been very useful for soldiers since the penetration of a heavy bullet means that it is also possible to hit through the protective walls that the hostiles used, which 7.62 could do compared to 5.56!! It was evaluated only and exclusively for this war situation since to shoot the 7.62x39 it required the replacement of too many parts, from the simple loader, to the shutter, the barrel and the gas intake system. Then firing ammunition supplied on site was dangerous due to explosive bullets, so we looked for a similar caliber like the 300 aac that offered more advantages but was disadvantaged on the minimum ballistic performance required by the army. It's a caliber suitable only for an urban guerrilla condition as I said, I'm not confused it's what it really is, since it has 400 fps less than it takes to have approval and be used at the military level for various uses!!
@@slevinkelevra8696 again, educate yourself. You are incorrect as usual. Move on troll
After everything i've seen, i'll rely on a good quality AK in 7.62x39 unless i'm in a perfectly flat, open field with no cover, no atmospheric conditions affecting my senses....only then would I choose a straight walled cartridge
Hey that's almost like the conditions they tested 45-70 for
what if i told you that 30 carbine and 77 gr 5.56 have the same ballistics up to 100 yards? now, thats with the carbine having a 18" barrel vs the 16" ar barrel.
300blk is definitely better, probably my favorite caliber. Very costly to take to the range though lol.
I don’t care what anyone says. 300 Blackout is not as effective and powerful as 7.62x39. And that is facts. Less drop, more penetration, more energy, more velocity, cheaper to shoot, more stopping power. There is a reason militaries use it all over the world. 300 Blackout will not even penetrate 1/4 inch mild steel plate. Not to say it won’t kill. But it is a useless round for me.
THE 39 HITS HARDER, FOR SURE.
@@NoWr2Run exactly. A guy got so mad at me because I told him 7.62x39 was a more powerful round and flatter shooting. He kept trying to convince me and say 300 BO was more powerful and had more energy and more stopping power. I told him just because you say it doesn’t mean it is true. It’s just facts 7.62x 39 is more powerful. Just like 308 is more powerful than 7.62x39 and 300 Win mag is more powerful than 308 and so on.
@@mikemoore466 100%, He's mad because he realized he spent much more money on a lesser cartridge, LMAO.
Why not bench your bias and accept that the case is just a vessel to hold powder, and they are merely two different cartridges for different purposes. With the x39 being able to hold more powder.
Yeah 0-300 is 762. Price is so beyond ridiculous its 762. Sorry, 300b0 is as suitable and great as a 5.7. Another NICHE round. Nothing more.
@The Manager Well at least he knows it.
Is that why 300blackout has become a popular deer round? Is that why 300blackout is effective out to 460yrds? (440yrd on a 10.5 barrel) is that why 300blackout is a far more versatile round with MANY super and subsonic loadings?
the only thing x39 has in its favor is price
@@JJsGA Hello, I know a 300 blk. Will shoot 4oo+ yards, so will the 7.62x39 and both are effective enough. I think you would be better off at those distances using .308 or something else with a little more umph. Both the 7.62x39 and the blk out were both developed as battle rifles and not long range shooters.
@@bkb5668 oh of course my guy. But let's take into account most engagements are between 75 to 150yrds and I won't shoot a deer past 200yrds (I'm sighted at 100) it's more then plenty inside that. Now if I was doing a long range build sure a .308 or better!
@@JJsGA I'm curious how you came up with such specific effective ranges?
@ 13:43
The 7.62 x 39 has the advantage of price and availability.
*laughs in Biden ammo ban*
Lmaooo
it's still going for like .29¢ online
Not very objective.
The discussion is "ammo", not the gun.
You are comparing gun platforms.
7.62x39 is available in match grade or can be reloaded with virtually the same bc efficient projectile.
Either in a match grade gun perform good. But in military format they both are lacking.
However the 7.62x39 has more case capacity and the taper is more efficient.
While magazine design favors the AR platforms, the AK design does favor extraction reliability.
Since both can be had in commercial standard brass cases and jackets, barrel wear is a none issue.
Ammo and platform are a pair, one is useless without the other and one influences the attributes of the other. The fundamental attributes of the AK and 7.62x39 make for a lesser tool.
@@snek9353 He doesn't specify the gun, just the cartridge.
He also trys to compare military grade to target or match grade.
He trys to imply MILITARY grade guns and ammo to TARGET grade guns and
ammo.
On a level playing field the 7.62 x 39 out preforms the 300 blackout.
More case capacity
Cheaper to get started into
Worldwide product support
Much wider options in arms and ammo as well as reload options.
@@melvinlambert4629 Does talk about magazines and by those standards 7.62NATO/.308win out performs 7.62x39.
@@snek9353 I stated the mag issue.
But 300 win mag and 300 Weatherby also outshine the 7.62 x 39 as well as 300 blackout.
As far as 30caliber goes both are on the bottom end.
The 30 30 cartridge is also in the same ball field in a bolt or single gun, followed closely by 30 carbine.
The point is he is biased.
Not that the info is false but slightly askew.
The only reason I prefer Brass to Steal is reloading. I have had guns for 30 years shooting both steal and brass through them. No issues. I check my barrels and loading ramps often and see ware from both steal and brass. Great Video., love your stick your thumb in it shirt in the SDI info! #KentuckyBallistics, #DemolitionRanch and #BrandonHerrera got me here to your channel. Props for wearing others merch!
Thanks for approaching this.
What about the inherent value of spent brass and reloadability? Spent steel… worthless
Worthless? what is scrap price going for per ton. LOL
You can reload steel cases.
Reloading is a substantial investment and steel is good if you only shoot occasionally.
@@victoriazero8869 And yet for the vast majority who shoot a lot, shooting steel was the way to go.
@@ils-84 its a pain in the ass.
I have some data points to reinforce your argument between centerfire and rimfire. Paul Harrel did a video concerning rimfire reliability. He fired almost 10000 rounds of .22lr (on camera, the video is over an hour) through a variety of guns using a mix of budget and high quality ammo. Even the good stuff had a failure rate of at least 1 in 1000.
By comparison a requirement during the Army's last pistol trials was an average number of shots between failures of 10000 (all the tested pistols were 9mm). Obviously the ammo has to be at least that reliable for the gun to be.
What in the h*** are you talking about Rim fire ammo for
Even the Russians have stopped using the 7.62x39.
Not a big .300blk fan myself, but you left a big one out.. being able to shoot sub and supersonic makes it “objectively superior” in more tactical environments. And being able to achieve said velocities out of a shorter barrel makes it more practical in a wider array of scenarios.
Yours truly,
5.56 gang
7.62x39 is my favorite round. If you don’t like what is available, load your own!
Never had rim lock, even on my Mosin. I know, different round, but it is the one everybody complains about.
Have fun paying 300 bo prices
Have fun starting to reload, or just wait till prices levels out. Ppl need to gi back to what their grandfathers did - reload or buy smart
Thank you, I will.
I'm upstate NY 300 blk goes for around $13.99 for a box of 20.
Only in America such discussions are contemplated, hahaha! Children all over the World love Kalash and whatever comes out of the business end!
7,62 works just fine!