Card Counters React to "The Card Counter"
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- Опубліковано 27 сер 2024
- Colin & Loudon Ofton watch blackjack scenes from the movie "The Card Counter." Watch as they break down some of the myths, misconceptions, and mistakes made about card counting in the film.
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Shockingly, a movie called The Card Counter has very little to do with actually counting cards. It's obvious they didn't put much thought into the system because the system isn't the main focus of the movie. The movie is about Oscar Isaac's character reconciling with his past. They use the setting of casinos to show his mundane lifestyle, a dull lifestyle, in contrast to his casinos are usually depicted, because he desperately wants to run from his mistakes. Even if the card counting and poker playing mistakes in this movie are egregiously wrong, I still overall liked the movie for what it was. Maybe just don't call a movie The Card Counter if the main focus isn't actually counting cards lol
Agree 100%
perfectly said
Nice name you got there
They could be accurate with card counting scenes it doesn't take that much effort. All they had to do was hop online and buy the book playing blackjack as a business read it and put it into action in the card counting scenes. Also playing a 6 to 5 table is stupid you have to pick a 3 to 2 table. They should have made a big deal about where they play.
You sound like you made the movie and ur mad about it lol
You guys miss it...you see, him doubling the 9 was part of his strategy to throw the casino off his trail - he knew that was a bs mistake and that the casino would see it and no longer suspect him of counting...well that’s the story
Well, one way to convince a casino that you're not an advantage player is to make so many stupid "cover" plays that you are actually not an advantage player. But you could just give the casino your money and save yourself the time and aggravation.
Oh. My. Gawd.
But it fits. This is exactly what the Casinos want the ploppies to think. Learn counting, don't get too greedy, and then play on our 6:5 tables with 1.5% house edge off the top :)
Make me laugh. The houses don’t care unless you are running at least 1:12 unit spread. Been on LV BLVD since 98. I’ve met only 1 guy good enough to be a threat. I scared him off after he was stiff. If he was George, I wouldn’t have said a word. My 2 cents
I went to the Casino 3 weeks ago and followed basic strategy. Walked in with $200 and walked out with $1400 in 2 hours. Thanks for the videos!
🤣
So, you added your $1400 to your pandemic check, and found some car dealer to take that as a down payment? Hee hee hee.
Id suggest its because you ran very well, not because of just basic strategy.
Watch out! Basic strategy alone, in the long run, is still a losing game. You may lose slower, but you will inevitably do so as the house still has the edge. To gain an advantage, you need to additionally use methods like e.g. counting.
So did u ever give it all back or
But what if I’ve got a really good feeling about doubling my 9 against a 10? 😂
In all seriousness, I was looking forward to watching that movie…. Not anymore 😂
I would bet, the studios asked for something (location, consultant, etc.) and the casinos got an agreement for them to not film how it's really done.
He had to see the hole card. Play those feelings. Let me know how that works out for your EV. I enjoy your card counting series and when u have been a guest on podcasts that I listen too.
I just watched it and it sucked!
9 against a dealer up 10 is a mandatory double...if you're playing free bet
@@stonewallstorys8906 Thank you! 😃
Imagine going to see The Card Counter expecting a cool gambling movie and discovering it’s about the horrors of Abu Ghraib
The worst part is that halfway through the movie, he abruptly changes from Blackjack to Texas Hold 'Em Poker, which has nothing to do with counting cards, and is an entirely different skill set.
poker is more about being able to divide 47/9 for flushes and 47/8 for straights LOL and then the pot odds
@@livebassngames just say you don’t know how to play poker man you don’t have to try and pretend like you know something
The movie "21" was a good depiction of card counting however the players were constantly getting counts of +15 and +16.
Actually the movie 21 really isn't that accurate,but it's a little better than what this movie was showing. He has a video about that movie on here as well. Mainly that the main characters win every time they go out and always win big. Which is very inaccurate
That's because the card counters "fold the shoe" whenever the players get counts of -15 and -16.
If those were true counts, that would be hugely problematic. Running count, that would have been much more commonplace, especially in 8 deck games.
Hey Colin, thanks for continuing to produce such high quality content. I've really gone in deep with learning about counting and black jack strategy, and it's been great to have your videos and articles to reference. As a 24 year old med student it's not affordable for me right now to become a member or afford the softwares you recommend, but using your free content and the BJA app I've been doing pretty well so far and am really learning the enjoy the process of training and being challenged. Maybe one of these days I'll take the financial plunge into membership, software access, and training with you, but for now I am appreciative of the content you create for non-members. Thanks again!
Addition: today a season counter at the casino (I go to Ilani in southern Washington) told me, after we had played a couple of shoes together, that he thought I was a "good player" and it felt very validating of the progress I have made using your system and advice!
Ryan, I’m very similar to you. 23 years old, chemical engineer, and I have recently become fascinated with gaining an advantage in blackjack by using these techniques. I need to improve my basic strategy, I’m running in the mid 90% right now, but one day soon I hope to be 100% from memory like these guys so I can focus on the counting and how the count influences my decisions. It would be a total dream to go train with these guys, but I’m not even close to that level. Practice, practice, practice
the comparison to air bud was priceless!
Maybe they teach a different card counting system in prison 🤓
One of my coworkers use to be a pit boss at a casino nearby and he told me a story of how this regular would always come in and play at an empty table late at night. This guy was incredibly good at Blackjack and would always start with a bankroll of $3,000. Every single time he won he would tip the dealer the winnings; breaking even. He would end up leaving having broke even but tipping thousands to these dealers. Eventually the casino kicked him because the only people making money from this guy's play were the dealers. Dude was like the Robin Hood of Blackjack and by the time they kicked him had given these dealers tons of money, lol. My coworker never said if the reason he left was that, but he did say that he was pissed that the casino screwed his dealers out of the tips.
That sounds like an exaggeration at best and a flat out lie at worst. If this had been a one-off occurrence, I might buy it. But I've never met anyone, professional or not - no matter how rich or poor, who sat down at a table game and regularly tipped all their winnings. Sorry but I cant believe the bullshit your coworker is feeding you.
And then everybody in the room starting clapping?
Lmao, and there's a guy in my neighborhood that dresses like a bat and saves people from crimes.
Loudon Often should make more appearances on the channel. Seeing such a common average dude talk about card counting actually makes it seem possible. Colin is a little too charismatic and good looking (harsh criticism I know).
William's explanation of card counting was taken directly, almost verbatim, from the WIRED UA-cam video "Blackjack Expert Explains How Card Counting Works".
Probably the extent of Paul Schrader’s research
If you know how movie-making works, you'll find the strategy errors are likely the fault of the editors picking shots that don't match a good play/move...they likely shot different hands over many days and the editors just took what looked best visually, and showed a win, without care of what the actual cards/strategy would be. That said, still the directors fault for skimping on details.
Laudon said he's winning 55% of the time. I think he's winning ~49.5% of the time (# of bets) over a sufficiently large enough sample size. It's just that he has approximate insight into the un-even distribution of when those wins are occurring and is adjusting his bets to maximize the impact of those fewer wins.
Unless he was talking about % of winning sessions vs losing sessions, not % of winning hands
Yea I think he was talking about sessions in which case you'd expect a decently high probability. And the longer your session is, the more likely you end up with a profit (assuming you are playing correctly of course)
@Blia Yang If you're talking about session wins it's very possible. If you're a winning player you expect to make a profit on most of your sessions. Because you're a winning player, each hand you play has a positive EV. No of course you can get unlucky, but the more hands you play in a session the more likely you are to come out on top at the end.
@@Danicker I was talking about the actual number of times he is winning a hand. He's not exceeding 50%, even if he's generating positive EV.
@@mr.snuggle6883 Okay sure, but I think in the video they were talking about sessions. Maybe not, it's hard to tell. But given that he said 55% I would guess he's talking about sessions
I always thought casinos probably fund these card counting movies to throw people off
When you really think about it, just about anyone who plays blackjack and understands basic probability is probably in some way subconsciously counting cards.
Damn right!
Not true I dealt blackjack and watched people play. 99% of people misplay 10% of hands.
Exactly, you have to in some way it's just a part of the game.
I'd be very interested to know where the money came from to produce this movie, looks like a casino anti-card counting op lmao
The movie has so little to do with gambling, tbh. It’s mostly about dealing with your past
doubling on 9 vs dealer's 10 is nothing . Austin powers stood on a 5 against a dealer's 10
I used to try card counting a decade ago. Simple basic strategy on double deck tables mostly. I could never do it with more decks than that, and infinite shuffling machines basically killed it for me. Admittedly, I thought the same way, betting the minimum when the count was low and only betting a little more when it was up. Never bet big, probably the most I ever bet was $50. I figured anyone who ever got trouble for it were the ones betting and winning noticeable amounts. It didn't make me rich, and I didn't always win, but it helped me play for hours almost every time, and I walked away with a few hundred bucks here and there.
I like how they laugh at all movie mistakes
What is the EV of covering everything in a hotel room with sheets?
3 millions $
Colin I didn't want to watch your full video until after I watched the movie what a mistake that was I paid 20 dollars to buy it. Your review of the movie was so much better than the movie itself.
What was your problem with it?
Need more David & Dusty stories
Colin 's last comment is what had me cracking up 😂 🤣 don't watch the card counter to learn about card counting 😂 🤣
this was so fucking funny thanks collin and louden for saving 2 hours of my life i was never going to get back
When identifying the value of the negative cards, he doesn’t mention that an ace is a negative one.
I noticed that too. I'm surprised they didn't comment on that!
@@guibox3 I guess they just assumed they'd get that...
The casino he walks out of at 2:52 looks like a fake casino you would see in Grand Theft Auto... Lol.
Hitting 14 v 6 is a super rare index play in the super idiot 16.
They realized the same problem with this film i did, it isn't about card counting at all and actually has very few gambling/playing scenes.
The important thing about this movie is, first, it’s not actually about counting cards. Like, at all. Also, he’s not even trying to win big. He’s intentionally making just a little. He doesn’t care about the money.
When the card counter is describing how the count is kept track of he forgets to count the Ace.
In the hand where he doubles on a nine against a dealer 10, it initially shows a dealer 5. The cut to the wide shot shows a 10 up rather than a 5. More of a continuity error than a blackjack one.
Also, there's another scene (might be the very first blackjack scene) where the players are signaling "hit" or "stand" BEFORE the dealer flips over his up card.
Should do this with the movie 21
That Airbud joke got me
Somthing ive always wondered is if basic strategy helps you lose less then why would casinos sell them?
the movie actually makes no sense... not even just from a card counting pov but like what kind of card counter would invest their time into wsop events or even poker in general?? Not even mentioning how it tried to be two movies at once with the military criticism theme that didn't really tie back into the main premise at all???
I counted cards like that dude to. There was 52 in the deck. Weird I always get that number, when do I raise my bet??
When the Queen of Cups card comes up.
Should’ve been called ‘The Drunk Ploppy’
Guys its just a movie..dont take it so seriously..its meant for an audience that knows norhing about counting cards professionally.
Next can we get Ex-Abu Ghraib torturers react to scenes from The Card Counter
FYI, from the start, they're talking bout a 49.25 50.75. That's the 1.5 advantage.
That Airbud reference! 🤣
It's a cool title but it's just a great movie that's not really about counting. Blackjack is the backdrop
I have been learning a little bit and have a quick question. In a situation where our running count is 15, we have 1 deck used, would this mean that the true count is 3? If so, would we change our betting unit this early in the game? Wouldn't this be risky since the shoe is still very new? When using true count, when do we start to change our betting unit when it comes to how many decks remain? Do we wait until two decks of the shoe have been used? When's the right time?
if you are playing a 6-shoe-game, yeah, the true count would be 3. and of course, when the TC is 3, you have the advantage so you start changing your bets. doesnt matter, how many cards have been dealt
(6 deck shoe)
I am so sorry I watched this movie. I’m training to count right now through BJA so I watched the movie. Talked about counting cards for maybe 7 minutes
can you go over how building a team works in playing blackjack and being an “investment firm”
Dude doubled the 9 over 10 cause he knew he had to YOLO it with that -1.5% edge 😂
To check - casino owners funding a movie where card counting and betting are misrepresented
Well, a little bit off topic but I would LOVE you to make a life-simulation PC game based around card counting. There are many areas around the world where you simply don't have the opportunity to get into "real" card counting.
There is a scene where Rainman hits 18 against a 4. When his brother berates him, Rainman tells his brother that there are lots of queens left. Hitting hard 18 is never a correct play under any circumstances. If the pack was rich in 10 value cards, this would be even more of a reason not to take a card. In Dark Matter, the player splits 10’s against an 8. This is only a proper play if the true count is at least +20. Counts like this are extremely rare. It seemed like they only played a few hours. It is much more likely that this was a movie error than the player had a +20 true count. The writers could have put in a scene where she was asked why she split 10’s against an 8 and have her state that the true count was +20. Then this would not be a movie error about proper strategy.
never let the facts get in the way of a good story..that is the movie business
If you show lack of basic strategy like that I would imagine casinos would think there's no way you're a card counter
That looks like a good comedy! Should've starred Adam Sandler.🤣
Would've been better lmao
The card counting scene in The Hangover was more accurate. Ha ha ha!
@@guibox3 Budget cuts in the film industry I guess. Ha ha ha!
Movie TItle: "He's not the best card counter, but he tries."
Colin, you hit the nail on the head at the end when you mentioned expecting some inaccuracy for the sake of dramatic effect. A little bending of the rules of realism makes sense or can be necessary for exposition or to make films accessible to broader audiences. On the other hand, doubling on a 9 against a dealer's 10 is just lazy, and shows they put zero effort into learning anything about what they're portraying in the film. Like you two, they wouldn't even need a consultant to know better, just an internet search.
I'm curious what you guys thought of rounders
It might have been an error in editing. Obviously they were supposed to have the 7 up not the 10. I didn’t even notice that when I watched it.
I think they intentionally did that to make you crack us up so much
Hey, just tried to become a member of BJA and I think that the website link is somehow broken. I have tried on 3 separate computers and each time I press the "purchase now" button, it loads and buffers for about a minute and then says "host error". Please help.
It amazes me in today's Hollywood, that with all the CGI in movies and all the attention to detail (like fight scenes, languages, etc etc), they can't take the time to get the details about card counting right when making a movie about...well, card counting. LOL!
the beauty is they can use CGI to make a director's cut and change the cards on the tables in each scene to fit better strategy
I was just watching Las Vegas on E. Season 2 Episode 2 “The Count of Montecito”. It is about a card counting ring. Pretty funny.
You forgot the fact that he said we don't count aces.
All I can say is Thank You ....
can you make a video on miki? the millionaire blackjack player whos in his 20s? all tatted up etc? i'd love a deep dive on that man.
You sensitive smart guys. I would be making all of the mistake issac would be making if i was an actor. lololol
Hey Colin. Is this "movie" on Hulu? I couldn't find it. I just want to see how it was.
The worst about the movie is that is called card counter, but the movie is about poker.
Cool! Just Started to get into the blackjack scene
At 2:45 the play might be justified with hole card knowledge right?
I try to sign-up for your newsletter on your website. I keep seeing the error, “enter a better email” . I am a tech guy- what exactly makes an email better?
As a poker player, this movie annoyed me because now people will assume I count cards even more, which they already do.
“I’m professional poker player.”
“Oh wow do you count cards”
If I had 100 dollars for every time, I had that convo I could retire
There have been enough well known poker players lose a ton of money at blackjack that the casinos probably aren't too worried. 😉
Colin, in this case, it's not the actor but the writers/producers, etc.
Plot twist, the casino consulted with the director.
As a condition of filming in the casino, maybe the production company had to play a bad game. A casino doesn't want anyone teaching anyone on the actual proper technique of being an advantage player. So maybe there was some fine print somewhere.
Also, if casino's hate players with any kind of advantage, why do they sell basic strategy cards in their gift shops. That's always puzzled me. I guess it gives more players the illusion of control and promotes more play. Since at the end of the day, even with perfect basic strategy the player is disadvantaged.
Doubling for less with a 9 vs a dealer 10 is actually correct strategy!!!
As long as "less" is zero
Still a mistake, if 2 3 4 5 6 7 come you cant take another card.
Ironically, playing that far against basic strategy would set off warning bells. Then they wouls have to determine if you are playing advantage or are just stupid/drunk or both.
Hey! I just came back from Christmas Eve dinner, and everyone got a $2 lottery ticket or 2 $1 lottery tickets. The odds and payouts are on the back of each ticket, so I went to my TI84 that my school let me keep to find the expected value of each ticket to find where I should sit. The best one was at the second seat, with an expected value of $1.45 (because we didn't have to pay for the lottery tickets). But because that was still less than the cost, I sold my ticket for $2, and Aunt Nancy bought it, and she lost, so I won $2 off a lottery that I would've lost otherwise.
the goal is to take home a profit not being greedy is a good thing.
Maybe the movie makers were mistakenly referring to hole card strategy charts...
My theory on doubling the 9 against a 10, and why he’s at a 6 to 5 table.. Dealer is tipping their hole card, which makes that dealer worth following to different tables. The true count may have been above a 4, and since he knew the dealer had a 17, double the 9.. That’s the only thing I can think. Let me know how far off I am
Hi do u guys have any videos of u playing? It would be cool to watch the team BlackJack Apprenticeship playing blackjack!
as IT expert , I also always laught at movies where hacker breaks into computer... it's just non sense
Hackers always yell: "I'm in! and do the handclap thing".
Lmaoo the jab at Atlantic City 🤣 so sketchy lol
When you get backed off does that mean you can't come back and play or do you get backed off for the day?
When you get backed off they threaten to trespass you on return or they will say you just can't play blackjack style games there. Another thing they can do is flat bet you so you aren't allowed to change your bet for the entire shoe.
Hi, I want to ask. Does it make sence for me to learn how to count, so I can see, if I am cabable of that?
I am quite good at math, I work as programmer and I think, that I can visit casinos for some time.
I undestand variance, and so on, but i do not know, if I can handle conflix well, I think so.
I do not think, that I can make lots of money with that, but it looks like interesting skill (I already can count a little bit, but I have to learn basic strategy first and than practise it).
It's a fun skill to learn and a good brain workout. Like you said though, don't think it's going to make you rich.
Wait ..... we don't double a 9 against a dealers 10 ? I thought that was basic strategy 101 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Looks like a movie the casino industry would make lol
In The Netherlands they trow the cards from the table in to a machine who shuffles the cards. So it's not possible to count cards in the casino here i think haha😅
Bro went vilent 😂
anyone know how i could get in touch with BJA or anyone who counts cards or just plays blackjack in general since i have a few questions about it before i put time into learning basic strategy and all of the things i would need to know
Hey James feel free to email info@blackjackapprenticeship.com
More over in the first scene all of the cards were Spades!!
You should also react to 21! Overall a way better movie
There are very few situations when the count is very low that you should hit 14 against a 6
But, don't you see? Because he's a card counter he knows a 5 is coming next, so he has to take it from the dealer.
Haha wow, at that point he almost could’ve looked at the dealers face with a 5 against a 10 and say: I’ll staayyyy 👋🏻
I’d really like for you to make a reaction to the movie called: Las Vegas 21 !
He also never mentioned the Ace having a value of -1.
Except if you're playing HiOPT w/ASC. Lol.
Most movies are made to entertain the general public. The movie might look ridiculous to you, but the average viewer has no idea what is "correct" or "incorrect". I'm sure plenty of doctors cringe at medical shows that we enjoy.
He's been "backed off." Back at the super 6 is where he backs off.
Would be interesting to hear your opinion on all the other casino games. Meaning Poker and the likes, but also if there are other beatable games out there :) Thanks
Casino is not available in my country (yet) but might be in a few years. Is it worth it if my country only ends up with 2-3 casino in the whole country?
Hi guy. I'm curious as to what country is yours. I'm guessing somewhere in Scandinavia. I'd appreciate it if you would clarify. Presuming that I am correct in that, let me be so bold as to answer your question. I have worked in casinos for nearly 25 years, starting as a dealer, and am now a floor manager (a quite high up position, in case you did not know that) at a large casino in Canada, so I speak from experience. If your country opens just a few casinos it will be impossible to become a successful card counter because of the simple fact that you will become known. If you show an advantage, you'll be out. It is almost certain that if your country decides to allow casinos there will be a tendering process whereby one particular (long established) company will win the contract. So if you are backed off at casino A you'll also (automatically) be backed off at B and C. Even in the highly unlikely event that the three casinos licenses are granted to three different companies you will still fail not only because you would be recognized at each one, but also because casinos (even competitors) share all kinds of information (including stuff like this) with each other. To summate, card counting for viable profit is impossible in all of Europe. There are not enough casinos to stay under the radar, and BJ is not even that popular a game there. Roulette is the big one. Even in America, with hundreds of casinos, and where there are many more BJ tables it is a very difficult, though not impossible hurdle to overcome. If you hear that casinos are coming to your country you should learn, or if you know the basics already, improve on your poker skills. Providing that the rake/session fee isn't ridiculously high, one can make nice tidy profits at poker, especially when you'll be playing against many people who are new to the game, and have not studied, like you. Beware though, of experienced sharks who know this too, and are superior to you. Wow, started off just wondering where you're located, and turned into a novel. Sorry about that, but hope what I said was helpful.
@@nolanvolens5727 thanks.
My current country is Thailand. We have casinos in Cambodia but I have heard that they have quite a few bad experiences there and don't want to loose any fingers.
There have been talks of casinos in Thailand (illegal now) after a proposed legal change.
Yeah you are right. I would be out of casinos pretty fast. I have a background in poker so i could spend some time to get back to that. Thanks a lot
@@RobinHagg You're welcome, and thanks for replying to me.