I love the honesty of .... yeah it's a t bird. Not enough guys doing disc reviews will be straight up with their thoughts on other companies clone discs.
I'm excited for my buddy who throws all Discraft to get this mold. He throws Cranks and other high speeds discs in the woods, and doesn't go well. Its just so hard to hit the angle just right when your throwing a 13 speed at a tunnel. Also, overstability kills distance at the end of the flight. I handed him a Saint and he proceeded to throw it dead straight 320ft. Probably his longest throw of the day
Oh yeah! Slow fairway discs are SO good in the woods! Distance drivers you have to hit perfectly to be good in the woods! Definitely doable… but you have to hit your lines perfectly or you will be off the fairway quick and often!
If you are a beginner who throws forehand then the Teebird is an excellent choice. It isn't overstable when throwing forehand. Mine have been very flexy forehand and stable backhand.
True! The Teebird is great for forehands because it’s stable enough to where it should still give you a stable flight when thrown clean, but not going to mask your mistakes as much as a Firebird type disc! I like them for slightly longer approaches than my zone!
@@ddr4v7z There are plenty of discs that lose stability forehand and not backhand. They might flex more with a forehand. You will see plenty of pros talk about discs that are stable backhand and forehand or not stable forehand, but stable backhand. Especially when talking about something like a Zone. You will often hear people talk about how a Roc3 isn't a stable forehand disc. It doesn't mean it is being thrown incorrectly forehand it is just unable to handle the forehand torque. I have been playing since 07, I throw 500' backhand and 400' forehand. I'm not a pro, but I am above average and I know how to throw. Some discs have more of a flex and wobble forehand and I am sure there are plenty of people who can attest to this.
"Grow into them" is exactly right. The flight of a seasoned teebird out of the box sounds pretty fantastic. I panic when I'm looking for my champion teebird that took 2 years to season to the big bomber that is has become.
Hey great video man, amazing quality, you’re a great talker, I like how you show flight paths and are realistic about arm speeds and flights instead of just trying to sell a disc.
Yeah! The Instinct is solid! I can definitely try and compare this to the Instinct for a future video! I would say the Instinct is pretty darn close to the Athena! They are nice and stable, probably like the Yellow Athena here. But the diameter is wider and the lip on the wing is bigger, although it is a little rounded off when the Teebirds is more aggressive of a lip!
the undertaker is my favorite disc mold but I still bag a teebird for hyzer flips. I do find the mold to be great for beginners. it's one of the first discs my wife was able to throw 200 feet and get a full s curve on. it really doesn't feel too overstable for many/most beginners IMO.
Yeah, it’s definitely usable for beginners! But I would say there are better options for promoting good form for beginners, like something a little less stable like a leopard or stalker type disc!
Best disc review / disc comparison. I really appreciated the discussion about disc speed. I’ve already kicked a rarely used disc outa my bag to fit the Athena. Now if I can just get my hands on one!
How does the Athena compare to the Explorer, and why do I feel like the Explorer gets overlooked in 7/5/0/2 comps? I believe it was the 2018 disc of the year.
It's pretty similar to the Explorer! I think it gets overlooked because there are some you pick up that flip up a little bit. which can be a good thing! But there are definitely some that are just as overstable as the Teebird, and I haven't thrown an Opto-X but I'm sure those are beefy as well!
Played a round with the Athena today. It was solid. I am just learning backhand and I was able to throw it with ease even in tight fairways. I found it a lot more forgiving and held the line better than the Teebird. For forehand, it is a little touchy and understable. I will have to play with it more, but so far really impressed with it.
@@ApolloDiscGolf you know what is funny. So I took my new Athena and beat in Crave. They are just about the same disc. The Athena went about 10 to 20 ft further and was slightly more OS but the lines were the exact same for most of the flight. Forehand, they practically landed next to each other with the Athena slightly ahead. The Athena is a little deeper than the Crave, so it feels better back hand, but the shallow feel of the Crave is better forehand. Both solid discs. If people do not want to pay the premium, the crave is a great alternative.
@@ApolloDiscGolf most of my bag is MVP and Axiom. The Glitch is the best disc of 2022 and Fission is stupidly OP for bombs and holds any line you put it on. I am just waiting for the Beam with Gyro X to come out. It is supposed to be 12 5 -1 3 and compete with the Destroyer.
I find the double bead idea interesting, but I also find myself wishing they had made something a little more unique here. Maybe when we get different plastics we will see this disc shine more uniquely? Curious about the implications of the beads with beating these in.
I mean how unique can you get? As far as aerodynamics I’m sure they’re trying new things. But you’re basically just adjusting the stability from what I can tell
I currently don’t have a brick and mortar location yet, but hopefully building up to something like that one day! Right now I just have an online store and hopefully will be running some events to have stuff available in person sometime this year or next year! Glad you found the channel! SMP is my local course! It’s solid!
I love the FD, for a long time it's been the only 7-speed in my bag. It holds angle, the C-line has a reliable fade. Ive been on the fence on trying out a teebird or athena, because it feels like they'll be too similar to the FD, but no one has actually made the comparison. thoughts? are they significantly more overstable than an FD?
i have a teebird that flies more like a firebird, my old champ fd is much straighter. Gave up on the teebird in the end, though love the fd and for slightly more stability I have a champ leopard which I can throw more accurately than any other disc for some reason.
Yeah I think the Teebird is just more overstable! Most Teebirds won't turn at all when thrown flat with power, when the FD likes to turn a little bit and fade less as well! It's a much straighter disc that the Teebird! But honestly I think cycling FD's and then having a Teebird or two as your more overstable Fairways when you need no turn or need to fight the wind would make a great Fairway lineup! I have personally thought of doing that! Or sticking with Discmania it would be the same as cycling FD's and having an Instinct when you need more stability!
@@ApolloDiscGolf thanks for the reply! normally, I disc up to the 9 speed when I need that overstable reliable fairway, but I think this 7 speed OS slot would be really useful in my bag. Excited to experiment, probably going to try the teebird first since its the OG
Awesome. Was waiting for this. How does the dome compare on average (I like flatter Teebirds)? And also, would you have any reason not to switch from a Teebird to an Athena? If I'm already throwing a beat in Star Teebird will adding a fresh Athena to my bag work as a cycling method? Oh, and how new/beat is the Teebird you're throwing in the video? Just for reference. Thanks man! Loving the reviews, they're the best I've seen.
The Teebird in the video I have had in the bag a little bit, but it’s my overstable Teebird! It’s pretty beefy! And yeah, they all have dome on them. But they are a really nice dome imo. Not board flat, but the dome isn’t too big, and feels nice in the hand… the dome is pretty consistent across all the Athena’s I have! So the profile pic in the beginning is pretty representative of the other domes!
And yeah, if you get a stable Athena they can slot in pretty well with a beat in Teebird… the only reason I would think is if you don’t like the slightly smaller rim… it definitely feels a touch different in the hand. But it’s not a huge difference in feel imo!
@@ApolloDiscGolf Maybe Discraft just made some ESP’s and TS Z blends; and just tossed them out there. Probably didn’t want to tell anybody, so people wouldn’t be able to replace them later on. It’s really funny how the market is flooded with these at outrageous prices, but somehow I got 5 in the store for $109.95, so glad discraft is on top of the production amount needed for the release. Now to Paul’s next disc: OS Luna or Luna OS 3, 4, 0, 4 Or 2, 5, 1, 3 Or 2, 4, 1, 4
I have a Elite Z XS from Discraft. It flies similar to my T- bird. Maybe more stable. The rim is taller and narrower though. Sometimes gets caught in my hand.
this is also almost identical flight and feel as my reapers, but the reaper patent number has been embossed over on the inside tooling on the rim and i feel like thats a significant detail that contributed to why the athena needed to be released on the PM line
@@ApolloDiscGolf definitely a little more dumpy than the teebird but if you get a less than 170g and a plastic like esp that beats up it will sit straight and be just stable enough to flip flat and not to turn over more than that
That small lip on the athena looks like the same small lip that is on my lat 64 explorer (also 7,5,0,2) Which is the only difference I can see between it and the lat 64 river. I was thinking that that lip causes it to have more drag = slows down faster = more fade. athena, teebird, explorer, legacy rival, Discmania Instinct, RPM Huia all have the same flight numbers. Seems to be poplular.
Yeah! The Explorer has that lip too! I think that one is a little bigger like the Teebirds lip! I have a video talking about it but I didn’t have the time to edit it as well as I would have liked so it’s pretty rough to get through at parts 😂 But yeah, I think the rivers wing also bends down a little more on the top than the Explorer… I think that contributes to the under stability as well! Both solid molds and great compliments to each other!
In this video I am comparing to a standard Teebird, but they are pretty interchangeable in my mind! The Teebird3 is pretty close to the standard Teebird, it compares the same to the Athena! A bigger shoulder on the wing than the Athena, a more pronounced lip/bead on the bottom of the wing, and a little more stability!
Great video. Haven't really found a disc in this slot for myself. I don't throw discraft other than a get freak zone which is good, just don't like the plastics (z, esp). Any suggestions from maybe mvp group of plastics or kastaplast/latitude? I mostly throw Craves from axiom, best disc I've ever thrown but sometimes I'd like to have more stability at the end of the flight without throwing anything much faster.
Yeah you might want to consider L64 tee bird clone the explorer. They should be pretty easy to find and dynamic disc website has some mis prints which I think is a great way to try a disc.
if you havent thrown a cosmic electron crave it might be more OS, they're quite good oh yeah the halloween resistors came out too, that would be closer to what ypu want
I honestly don’t have much experience with MVP or Axiom, but I agree with Miguel, the Explorer from Latitude is definitely worth a try! That or the Evader from DD. The Evader is a little straighter than the Teebird, but it still has a good amount of stability to fight winds! I have also heard good things about the Cosmic Crave like Jacob suggested! But I haven’t thrown those to say for sure
Oh I didn’t show the bad ones… I nearly lost one of my Athena’s turning it over into the tall grass off the tee… spent a solid 30 minutes combing through all of it trying to find it 😂 Definitely been something I need to work on!
Discraft has always kind been lacking in the fairway department, I've been playing since the early 2000s and loved Discrafts putters and mids but preferred innova fairways and drivers and still do. As for the wasp, story goes that Cam Todd agreed to go to discraft if they made a roc, so they basically straight up copied the roc, called it a wasp. Innova sued and lost because patent expired. the next year they made a beadless wasp, called in the buzzz and the rest is history. I think Paul is doing a good job filling in discraft's line up with his favorite molds from innova haha. Not all exact copies but highly influenced by
I'm the same, discraft putters and mids, innova fairways and destroyers. Do have a couple of nukes though. I haven't tried many discraft fairway drivers, threw a friend's anax and it was super straight and glidy, though my thunderbird felt even nicer. (also have an aviar x3 which is great for throwing dead straight with some power and putting when needing a big fade for wind/baskets down hill etc). What is your most reliable innova fairway might I ask..?
Yeah! I knew the Wasp was a copy of the Roc for Cam Todd! I didn't know there was a lawsuit out of it! That's crazy! And it is cool that the early run of Buzzz's were labeled as a "Super Straight Modified Wasp" or something like that! They were even tooled on the inside as Wasps on the first runs! And they did it again for the 10 year buzzzes 😂
Yeah, the Undertaker is solid! I'm just not a huge fan of the plus rim on it.. And the wider diameter of a lot of their fairways like the Vulture and Anax is weird to me... I don't know why, its just personal preference, I like the smaller diameter drivers better.... And the Eagle-L and X are great! I just threw Teebirds first and never looked back... I did try the Exodus though which is the Eagle-L mold and that was amazing! Like a perfectly broken in Teebird!
@@ApolloDiscGolf exactly! The exodus is amazing! I have some older eagle Ls but also have the exodus. Eagle Xs are perfect for cycling because the good one start as almost baby Firebirds and season into these amazing flippy but reliable discs. Discraft did have some cool fairways but just not as good or as wide of an offering as Innova, at least back in the day. The had the Xpress, XL, XS, cyclone, Are a few I remember
Dude you crack me up!!! Great review and history lesson on Innova and Discraft, how far were you throwing it? From my angle it looked like maybe 300', hard to tell. Keep making these vids.
Thank you! And they were all between 280ft-325ft, depends on the throw, there are some down hill, some up, some flat shots, some in headwinds, So they are all over the place 😂 But I usually throw fairways around 315-325ft!
I tried to make the Teebird work for me, but after one champion and two stars, I moved on. The Evader comes out much more clean, flies straighter, but still has dependable fade. Oh, and it glides for days.
Oh yeah, I can definitely see that! Evader’s are really nice! And much more workable out of the box… they push forward really well compared to the Teebird! Also, congrats on your football team! It’s a fun time for KU Football fans!
Oh yeah, I actually did a video on it! I really liked it! Definitely not as overstable as the Teebird though! Had a touch of turn for me. I threw the splatter s-blend ones!
the Athena is actually an 8 4 0 2. they decided at the last minute to call it a 7 5 0 2, despite it's 1.8cm rim, because it wasn't getting the distance of an 8s, and because a 7speed 5glide makes it look better than it actually is.
Interesting! Yeah I didn't measure it myself... But the Teebird's I had and the Athena's I had, the Athena's were a little easier to grip, and didn't feel as big... But again, that could be due to the top of the wing not going as high as the Teebird! But also 1mm of difference on the PDGA is a definitely within the margin for error as well! Especially between different runs!
@@ApolloDiscGolf Please measure it. I would especially like to know if the ID is 166mm as the PDGA/Mfr states in their specs. Everything else seems to be about the same except for the teebird is more flexible. BTW, which plastic is your teebird?
In this video it’s a Star Teebird! And the Athena’s might have been a touch softer than the Star, but they both had a good amount of stiffness to them! And I can try and measure it, but I don’t have a caliper at home! I mainly go by feel because even the measurements can be deceiving! Like the Evader has the same rim depth and rim width as the Teebird, but they feel significantly smaller in the hand! Mainly because of the rim configuration! And I have no way of measuring that! But yeah, the diameter of the Athena is pretty similar to the Teebird! I didn’t notice much difference at all with the diameter, but I can try and measure it!
The moment my Teebird/Explorer slot turns over like your orange Teebird, it's fired and gets kicked out of the bag, lol. Wild to see I'm not the only person whose phone overheats while recording. :O
@@ApolloDiscGolf have you tried peeing on your phone from an elevated position to cool it off? Link to joke for reference, lol ua-cam.com/video/vTZqox2hVek/v-deo.htmlm35s
I haven’t tried the Kaxe! But it would take a lot to beat out that echo star Teebird! That one has been in the bag for a while now.. like 6-7 years probably!
Honestly would put the undertaker closer to a Valkyrie. But the undertaker came out in 2016 I think so way later. I think discraft relied on their stalker as a teebird but it’s slower and more US. Maybe they thought they couldn’t rival the teebird so that didn’t make one. Even though I may never throw one, I’m glad they made the Athena now
Yeah, when I was comparing the two I was mainly talking about how Discraft tries to make their own staple rather than copy someone else… so instead of just making a Teebird their staple fairway to rival Innova, they went the route of making the Undertaker their staple fairway!
@@ApolloDiscGolf definitely an older mold, can’t remember what year it went out of production, if the Athena flies anything like the xl it’s going to be a fantastic mold
Dam right I mean when he made the Hades I'm thinking why the hell was one of his first thoughts to basically create another disc that discraft already has, literally its basically the exact flight numbers as a Thrasher, waste of time. Wheres the Teebird of discraft, wheres the eagle of discraft, shit wheres the dam Leopard of discraft 🤣 By the way the mold on the athena is completely different than the teebird and flies way better. First obvious difference is the athenas micro bead is on the inner rim instead of the outer rim. I used to be a huge vulture fan but all the sudden all the vultures fly hella overstable compared to the dumb Anax which is basically a Vulture that's less reliable. So now I can have my old school vulture flight back in the Athena. I like what you say about throwing lower speed discs how they travel a lot less from right to left and that's exactly the reason why the best thumber discs are lower speeds cause it takes much longer for the disc to move right and flip, high speed overstables flip like understable discs when thrown on a thumb. BTW theres a secret badass thumber disc out there by discraft. And no one whould ever think to throw it on a thumb, bet no one can guess what it is, and itll do 300 feet with only barreling half way and finishing left instead of right, we actually dont call it a thumber we call it thumbahawk😉
Really think they will release this in Z? Seems like they just make esp and big z for pauls discs which is sad as hell bcoz Z is amazing imo, like being able to buy stock z anax would be so nice.
I wouldn’t be surprised either way! I bet they make some limited stuff with them either being Big-Z or Cryztal, or something like that! A ti one would be insane but I haven’t seen any limited stuff being made in ti recently… seems like they are moving away from that plastic almost! I hardly see it much!
@@ApolloDiscGolf ikr, my favourite disc in my bag is my Ti roach, gotten 3 aces this summer with it, just love how straight it is, can really crank on it, cannot find a backup anywhere tho
I had a 10X KC pro TeeBird back in the day. It was well seasoned and a perfect hyzer-flip disc. I could hit 400' pipe shots with it with laser accuracy. Lost at Mastin Lake DGP in Huntsville, AL.
I personally don’t see a huge difference between the Teebird3 and Teebird for me! Maybe the Teebird3 is a touch straighter, but pretty indistinguishable to me! But then again I don’t throw my fairways 400’, so you probably see more difference 😂
@@ApolloDiscGolf I remember the KC pro 10X teebirds being more domey and sharper bladed... much like the more sharply bladed teebird3, which is why I suggested it. I send a teebird3 for anything up to about 350' Beyond there, I'm going Sidewinder hyzer-flip to full flight up to around 450' Beyond that I am sending an Archon somewhere in the 520' max distance air shot and a beat pro Vulcan that I can roll around 530' all on basically flat ground with slightly elevated tee. Innova is my jam and has been for the last twenty-five years.
@@ApolloDiscGolf Josh Anton had a signature Archon as recently as 2018. Vulcan is a roller right out of the bag, so I don't know why it wouldn't be as common as a Roadrunner, but I have been enjoying it for quite a while. It takes about ten years to beat a disc in properly... I guess I just don't hit enough trees...
im weirdoes who dont like buzzz but like wasp, mostly because reliable fade and straight flight whitout side to side movement (natural flat to slight anny thrower)
Yeah the Wasp is a solid mold! I think the biggest reason the Roc was more successful back when the Wasp came out was because it’s so good to cycle and back then Discraft’s base plastic just wasn’t as good as KC Pro plastic… and Z takes forever to beat up! Now Discraft has the Jawbreaker stuff which is pretty great!
Bought a Teebird in Gstar on accident. I thought it was regular star. Stupid thing is too flippy right now and unpredictable. Going to wait for MVP to release their version and compare it to the Teebird and Athena.
@@subspaceanomaly its so much fun. My son and I were throwing ours back and forth to each other and then throwing them at the basket. My son throws his dead straight for about 200ft. Mine tends to flip with the way I throw, so I throw it with slight hyzer and it is a laser. For shots around 100ft, it lands so soft so you can attack the basket.
@@billherrera6386 I'm really digging the concept, been throwing many discs over the years but not found a good golf disc that I can throw in that way. None for sale in my country yet..
lol echo star teebirds.. there are some folks who stockpiled those thangs, you wont ever capture that lightning in a bottle again, that regrind recycled echo star plastic was a home run shot in the dark and they cant get that plastic like that again, i had echo star destroyers that absolutely bombed
what is it about a plastic that makes such a difference do you think? I would guess a kind of elasticity/springiness on release that gets a subtle extra bit of power, but curious what is the truth
Yeah, I only have two of them! But they are amazing! And frisbee, I'm not sure what about the plastic itself. I just know that the old echostar was using their actual scraps from their other molds all put into one, but their new recycled stuff (just like every other company at this point) just used recycled plastics that they buy somewhere, it's not actually their own scraps thrown back into the machine, because you just can't do that at scale as much! And I'm not sure if it's something about the plastic, or if those few runs of Xcals, Destroyers, and Teebirds were just a good run... It might be a little bit of both! They are just still pretty stable, but still push forward quite a bit!
@@ApolloDiscGolf even the temperature in the air or humidity when removed from their molds are an impact on dome and parting line heights and that wasn’t discovered right away, depending on what time of the year they were made the same mold and plastic could produce different “runs”
I don't know... maybe right after the holy shot for a little bit.. But consistently... They have to of had a couple thousand Athena's probably by now and they have all sold out instantly... They even crashed Discraft's site on the release! and it's hard to go to any course without someone having some PM line disc in their bag... his discs are everywhere... I see a lot of Envy's.. But not nearly as much as PM line discs! But that could also be regionally... There might be regions where Conrad sells more stuff. But in all of disc golf I don't know if any stuff sells as much as Paul's stuff! That would be really interesting to see the actual numbers though!
@@ApolloDiscGolf Yea, I haven't seen any numbers either, lol. Think I'm just regurgitating something I heard on possibly a different channel. I enjoy your stuff man, cheers!
Yeah, you can find some stable Undertakers! But for the most part they usually have some turn out of them and are more consistently like a hyzerflip fairway than a slightly overstable fairway like the Teebird! But when people talk about their go-to Teebirds, those are usually close in stability to an Undertaker!
I do have a natural hyzer release. I rarely throw flat only my vulture and destroyer. Maybe my star firebird but it's just a slower vulture same exact flight
The Buzzz is a lot more like the Shark than the Roc. If you have the 2 side-by-side they look as close to each other as the Athena and Teebird do. It's more than the looks, but the stability. The Roc by default is just a tiny bit more stable than the Shark. The Shark was created 2 years after the Roc (1989 vs 1987) to be more of a "point and shoot" disc that's like a more beat-in Roc on day one. The Buzzz came out in 2003 and of course it's such a good disc. It's kinda funny how long it takes for these companies to fill in certain slots. They try hard not to make exact duplicates of each other's discs, but ultimately they break down and create something that works. Toro vs Zone. Shark vs Buzzz. Teebird vs Athena.
Yeah, I think the Buzzz took off more because it was more consistently flat topped! And it was mainly in Premium plastic! Innova throwers mainly cycled base line mids and stuck with Roc’s because of the overstability! But since the Buzzz is straighter and more workable out of the box people wanted the stability to last longer so they were nicer in their premium plastics! I think the Shark never took off because they were always a little domey…
@@ApolloDiscGolf Yep. That's why they created the Shark3. It's more flat, and adds a tiny bit more mass to the rim. It's one of the reasons I went to the Shark3 myself. The Shark ended up being popularized as a beginner's midrange and ended up in so many of those starter packs.
Yeah I definitely need one of those! I recent threw it in the drink and I was distraught! Luckily it came back to me a week later, but that week without it was rough 😂
Oh yeah! The Explorer is nice! and I agree, it's easier to find ones that are more workable out of the box. But you can definitely still find ones that are beefy for when you need one!
This feels like some discmania shit! Cant find an athena for less than 50 bucks on ebay, looks like i wont be buying one of these unless they release more!! 😒 back to t birds lmao
I mean, so far there have just been protos! So the disc hasn’t technically been released yet… hopefully everyone who wants one will be able to get one when they do officially release!
I would say the Eagle-X is much more stable than the Athena! Those are usually more overstable than a Teebird! And the Athena pushes forward a little more than an Eagle!
Really? What is their most overstable plastic? I feel like ti is still the most overstable of most discs… they just don’t make a lot of ti discs anymore… with all their limited stuff they are just sticking with swirly Z or swirly esp type plastic… but if you want an overstable Undertaker, I feel like the ti ones are still your best bet
@@ApolloDiscGolf so when ti first came out it definitely was their most durable n os plastic but the colors we're horrible so they made all the light colors and now those are all much more straighter n break in so fast. A firm crystal sparkle or even just crystal is their most stable n durable plastic by far
I don’t know… the Eagle-X is usually more overstable and the Eagle-L is a little straighter than it! It definitely compares a lot closer to my Teebirds… and that would make since because Paul really leaned a lot on his Teebirds with Innova! He didn’t really throw the Eagle all that much if at all!
![The Truth About Paul McBeth's NEW Disc [UNBIASED Review of Discraft Athena]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/gQA-lxxhC08/mqdefault.jpg)
Great to hear your take! Not enough other reviews make the cross-company comparisons. It was nice to hear this honestly compared to a T Bird.
Thanks! And yeah, I have bagged Teebirds since I started playing, so I had to see what these were like against my Teebirds!
I love the honesty of .... yeah it's a t bird. Not enough guys doing disc reviews will be straight up with their thoughts on other companies clone discs.
Thanks! And don’t get me wrong, I am still fanboying about the disc 😂
But yeah, it is basically Discraft’s/Paul’s take on the Teebird!
I'm excited for my buddy who throws all Discraft to get this mold. He throws Cranks and other high speeds discs in the woods, and doesn't go well. Its just so hard to hit the angle just right when your throwing a 13 speed at a tunnel. Also, overstability kills distance at the end of the flight. I handed him a Saint and he proceeded to throw it dead straight 320ft. Probably his longest throw of the day
Oh yeah! Slow fairway discs are SO good in the woods! Distance drivers you have to hit perfectly to be good in the woods! Definitely doable… but you have to hit your lines perfectly or you will be off the fairway quick and often!
If you are a beginner who throws forehand then the Teebird is an excellent choice. It isn't overstable when throwing forehand. Mine have been very flexy forehand and stable backhand.
True! The Teebird is great for forehands because it’s stable enough to where it should still give you a stable flight when thrown clean, but not going to mask your mistakes as much as a Firebird type disc! I like them for slightly longer approaches than my zone!
@@ddr4v7z There are plenty of discs that lose stability forehand and not backhand. They might flex more with a forehand. You will see plenty of pros talk about discs that are stable backhand and forehand or not stable forehand, but stable backhand. Especially when talking about something like a Zone. You will often hear people talk about how a Roc3 isn't a stable forehand disc. It doesn't mean it is being thrown incorrectly forehand it is just unable to handle the forehand torque. I have been playing since 07, I throw 500' backhand and 400' forehand. I'm not a pro, but I am above average and I know how to throw. Some discs have more of a flex and wobble forehand and I am sure there are plenty of people who can attest to this.
"Grow into them" is exactly right. The flight of a seasoned teebird out of the box sounds pretty fantastic. I panic when I'm looking for my champion teebird that took 2 years to season to the big bomber that is has become.
Yeah, and I think the stock ones now are the straightest of them all! So that even better for a seasoned Teebird flight!
Hey great video man, amazing quality, you’re a great talker, I like how you show flight paths and are realistic about arm speeds and flights instead of just trying to sell a disc.
Thank you!
Thanks to you advice, I bought an Athena and my Gstar Tee Bird is in the extra disc pile. Can't wait to test it.
Yeah it is definitely solid!
"Paul can throw discs with the best of them...actually...he is the best of them..." LOL. Love your reviews and your format. So great.
Thank you! I appreciate it! 😂
Would you be able to compare to the Discmania Instinct?
Yeah! The Instinct is solid! I can definitely try and compare this to the Instinct for a future video! I would say the Instinct is pretty darn close to the Athena! They are nice and stable, probably like the Yellow Athena here. But the diameter is wider and the lip on the wing is bigger, although it is a little rounded off when the Teebirds is more aggressive of a lip!
the undertaker is my favorite disc mold but I still bag a teebird for hyzer flips.
I do find the mold to be great for beginners. it's one of the first discs my wife was able to throw 200 feet and get a full s curve on. it really doesn't feel too overstable for many/most beginners IMO.
Yeah, it’s definitely usable for beginners! But I would say there are better options for promoting good form for beginners, like something a little less stable like a leopard or stalker type disc!
4:50 Birdie recently release the Strike! Highly recommend for exactly what you're describing
Yeah? I haven’t tried anything from Birdie yet!
Best disc review / disc comparison. I really appreciated the discussion about disc speed. I’ve already kicked a rarely used disc outa my bag to fit the Athena. Now if I can just get my hands on one!
Thanks! And yeah they are definitely solid! I’m just lucky to be down the road from Emporia to grab some at Worlds. They had a ton at worlds!
Love my DX Teebird. Definitely have to consider the Athena next season. Thank for the review 👍
It’s a solid disc!
DX Teebird!
I just bought a Teebird3 finally and that’s my favorite disc to throw straight about 300 it’s crazy how much it’s helped a forehand for me as well
Oh yeah, if you can forehand the Teebird to hold a hyzer the whole way then you have a solid forehand!
How does the Athena compare to the Explorer, and why do I feel like the Explorer gets overlooked in 7/5/0/2 comps? I believe it was the 2018 disc of the year.
It's pretty similar to the Explorer! I think it gets overlooked because there are some you pick up that flip up a little bit. which can be a good thing! But there are definitely some that are just as overstable as the Teebird, and I haven't thrown an Opto-X but I'm sure those are beefy as well!
best video on the Athena I've seen. thanks for the thoughtful work
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it!
Played a round with the Athena today. It was solid. I am just learning backhand and I was able to throw it with ease even in tight fairways. I found it a lot more forgiving and held the line better than the Teebird. For forehand, it is a little touchy and understable. I will have to play with it more, but so far really impressed with it.
Yeah for forehands they definitely need a clean throw for it to still fly stable to overstable!
@@ApolloDiscGolf you know what is funny. So I took my new Athena and beat in Crave. They are just about the same disc. The Athena went about 10 to 20 ft further and was slightly more OS but the lines were the exact same for most of the flight. Forehand, they practically landed next to each other with the Athena slightly ahead. The Athena is a little deeper than the Crave, so it feels better back hand, but the shallow feel of the Crave is better forehand. Both solid discs. If people do not want to pay the premium, the crave is a great alternative.
@@billherrera6386 yeah I have heard good things about the Crave! I need to try more MVP/Axiom stuff!
@@ApolloDiscGolf most of my bag is MVP and Axiom. The Glitch is the best disc of 2022 and Fission is stupidly OP for bombs and holds any line you put it on. I am just waiting for the Beam with Gyro X to come out. It is supposed to be 12 5 -1 3 and compete with the Destroyer.
I find the double bead idea interesting, but I also find myself wishing they had made something a little more unique here. Maybe when we get different plastics we will see this disc shine more uniquely? Curious about the implications of the beads with beating these in.
Yeah, it might not be super unique compared to other stuff, but for Discraft players it’s definitely something they needed in their lineup!
I mean how unique can you get? As far as aerodynamics I’m sure they’re trying new things. But you’re basically just adjusting the stability from what I can tell
They made a teebird. It was called the tracker. Just never was as popular and got discontinued
I remember the tracker, but I don't think I ever tried one!
I’ve always loved your videos; your newer ones have been a cut above 💪 thank you for doing so much for your viewers 🔥
Thank you! I appreciate it! And thank you for watching! I wouldn’t be anywhere if nobody watched the videos!
YOOO just found your channel, where’s your shop located at??? I’d recognize Shawnee Mission Park anywhere
I currently don’t have a brick and mortar location yet, but hopefully building up to something like that one day! Right now I just have an online store and hopefully will be running some events to have stuff available in person sometime this year or next year! Glad you found the channel! SMP is my local course! It’s solid!
I had a Discraft Tracker that flew pretty similar to a Teebird, I'd like to see a comparison between the Tracker and Athena
Do they still make the Tracker? I haven’t thrown or see one of those before! I have heard of it though!
@@ApolloDiscGolf I don't think so, it's been a long time since I threw one.
I love the FD, for a long time it's been the only 7-speed in my bag. It holds angle, the C-line has a reliable fade. Ive been on the fence on trying out a teebird or athena, because it feels like they'll be too similar to the FD, but no one has actually made the comparison. thoughts? are they significantly more overstable than an FD?
I would think the Teebird would be closer to the FD2, but I could be mistaken
i have a teebird that flies more like a firebird, my old champ fd is much straighter. Gave up on the teebird in the end, though love the fd and for slightly more stability I have a champ leopard which I can throw more accurately than any other disc for some reason.
Yeah I think the Teebird is just more overstable! Most Teebirds won't turn at all when thrown flat with power, when the FD likes to turn a little bit and fade less as well! It's a much straighter disc that the Teebird! But honestly I think cycling FD's and then having a Teebird or two as your more overstable Fairways when you need no turn or need to fight the wind would make a great Fairway lineup! I have personally thought of doing that!
Or sticking with Discmania it would be the same as cycling FD's and having an Instinct when you need more stability!
@@ApolloDiscGolf thanks for the reply! normally, I disc up to the 9 speed when I need that overstable reliable fairway, but I think this 7 speed OS slot would be really useful in my bag. Excited to experiment, probably going to try the teebird first since its the OG
Freaking great review. Very good info and description of the disc. Thanks apollo
Thanks man! I appreciate it!
Will you sell the blue and yellow one.
Sorry, All of these are for throwing! They are just so good!
Awesome. Was waiting for this. How does the dome compare on average (I like flatter Teebirds)? And also, would you have any reason not to switch from a Teebird to an Athena? If I'm already throwing a beat in Star Teebird will adding a fresh Athena to my bag work as a cycling method? Oh, and how new/beat is the Teebird you're throwing in the video? Just for reference.
Thanks man! Loving the reviews, they're the best I've seen.
The Teebird in the video I have had in the bag a little bit, but it’s my overstable Teebird! It’s pretty beefy! And yeah, they all have dome on them. But they are a really nice dome imo. Not board flat, but the dome isn’t too big, and feels nice in the hand… the dome is pretty consistent across all the Athena’s I have! So the profile pic in the beginning is pretty representative of the other domes!
And yeah, if you get a stable Athena they can slot in pretty well with a beat in Teebird… the only reason I would think is if you don’t like the slightly smaller rim… it definitely feels a touch different in the hand. But it’s not a huge difference in feel imo!
me - "nice an athena review, wait this guy looks real familiar......" good to see you doing well man! keep up the good content
Thanks man! 💪🏼💪🏼
I got an Athena that’s supposed to be ESP, but it’s transparent like BigZ, and I have a Baby Blue one that color shifts in the sun to purple.
Yeah I have seen a few that look like they have a good amount of Z in them!
@@ApolloDiscGolf Maybe Discraft just made some ESP’s and TS Z blends; and just tossed them out there. Probably didn’t want to tell anybody, so people wouldn’t be able to replace them later on. It’s really funny how the market is flooded with these at outrageous prices, but somehow I got 5 in the store for $109.95, so glad discraft is on top of the production amount needed for the release.
Now to Paul’s next disc:
OS Luna or Luna OS
3, 4, 0, 4
Or
2, 5, 1, 3
Or
2, 4, 1, 4
@@DiscraftJunkies Yeah it's crazy how many of these they made when they aren't even the stock release yet!
Gotta try the Exodus! It’s a beat in Teebird right out of the box 🤙🏼
Just realized you made a video about the Exodus 😅
Yeah, it is so good!
I have a Elite Z XS from Discraft. It flies similar to my T- bird. Maybe more stable. The rim is taller and narrower though. Sometimes gets caught in my hand.
Interesting! I haven't thrown an XS, that's a pretty old mold, isn't it?
@@ApolloDiscGolf yeah, I got that disc in the early 2000s
When it first came out it won the long distance record.
Working with the Mint Grackle in that slot at the moment. Can’t wait to get one seasoned in.
I haven't thrown much Mint! I need to try some of those! There isn't much Mint stuff up here in KC
Another benefit of slower discs in the woods is that they don't get deflected as far as a higher speed disc does when it hits a tree.
True! Another great benefit!
I think there are a lot of people out there taking very aggressive shots without knowing they are taking a very aggressive approach 😂
I noticed these are a lot of KC courses. What course is that at 3:16? It looks sweet!
That is Big Bull Creek in Edgerton! It’s a fun one! The open stretch can be grueling because it’s long with a lot of uphill throws!
this is also almost identical flight and feel as my reapers, but the reaper patent number has been embossed over on the inside tooling on the rim and i feel like thats a significant detail that contributed to why the athena needed to be released on the PM line
Hmmm, I haven't thrown a Reaper before, but I always thought that was a different mold than a Teebird like disc!
@@ApolloDiscGolf definitely a little more dumpy than the teebird but if you get a less than 170g and a plastic like esp that beats up it will sit straight and be just stable enough to flip flat and not to turn over more than that
That small lip on the athena looks like the same small lip that is on my lat 64 explorer (also 7,5,0,2) Which is the only difference I can see between it and the lat 64 river. I was thinking that that lip causes it to have more drag = slows down faster = more fade.
athena, teebird, explorer, legacy rival, Discmania Instinct, RPM Huia all have the same flight numbers. Seems to be poplular.
Yeah! The Explorer has that lip too! I think that one is a little bigger like the Teebirds lip! I have a video talking about it but I didn’t have the time to edit it as well as I would have liked so it’s pretty rough to get through at parts 😂
But yeah, I think the rivers wing also bends down a little more on the top than the Explorer… I think that contributes to the under stability as well! Both solid molds and great compliments to each other!
Discraft used to have a tee bird. It was called the xl and they stopped making them
When you say teebird, do you mean an actual teebird or a teebird 3?
In this video I am comparing to a standard Teebird, but they are pretty interchangeable in my mind! The Teebird3 is pretty close to the standard Teebird, it compares the same to the Athena! A bigger shoulder on the wing than the Athena, a more pronounced lip/bead on the bottom of the wing, and a little more stability!
Great video. Haven't really found a disc in this slot for myself. I don't throw discraft other than a get freak zone which is good, just don't like the plastics (z, esp). Any suggestions from maybe mvp group of plastics or kastaplast/latitude? I mostly throw Craves from axiom, best disc I've ever thrown but sometimes I'd like to have more stability at the end of the flight without throwing anything much faster.
Yeah you might want to consider L64 tee bird clone the explorer. They should be pretty easy to find and dynamic disc website has some mis prints which I think is a great way to try a disc.
if you havent thrown a cosmic electron crave it might be more OS, they're quite good
oh yeah the halloween resistors came out too, that would be closer to what ypu want
I honestly don’t have much experience with MVP or Axiom, but I agree with Miguel, the Explorer from Latitude is definitely worth a try! That or the Evader from DD. The Evader is a little straighter than the Teebird, but it still has a good amount of stability to fight winds! I have also heard good things about the Cosmic Crave like Jacob suggested! But I haven’t thrown those to say for sure
Thanks for the replies. I'll definitely try one of those!
Most underrated great disc in this slot is the legacy rival. That's what you want. So reliable without being too stable.
Love the video, and it's great getting to see these get thrown at SMP wich is a local course for me.
Thanks! And yeah, SMP is my local course! And it’s great to easily see the flights of discs since the back is pretty open!
Those forearms be poppin
Oh I didn’t show the bad ones… I nearly lost one of my Athena’s turning it over into the tall grass off the tee… spent a solid 30 minutes combing through all of it trying to find it 😂
Definitely been something I need to work on!
@@ApolloDiscGolf you misread that, but it’s okay
@@OverthrowDiscGolf oh, I see now 😳
Of course Apollo likes the Athena
wow really great review. thanks for all the info
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it!
Discraft has always kind been lacking in the fairway department, I've been playing since the early 2000s and loved Discrafts putters and mids but preferred innova fairways and drivers and still do. As for the wasp, story goes that Cam Todd agreed to go to discraft if they made a roc, so they basically straight up copied the roc, called it a wasp. Innova sued and lost because patent expired. the next year they made a beadless wasp, called in the buzzz and the rest is history. I think Paul is doing a good job filling in discraft's line up with his favorite molds from innova haha. Not all exact copies but highly influenced by
I'm the same, discraft putters and mids, innova fairways and destroyers. Do have a couple of nukes though. I haven't tried many discraft fairway drivers, threw a friend's anax and it was super straight and glidy, though my thunderbird felt even nicer. (also have an aviar x3 which is great for throwing dead straight with some power and putting when needing a big fade for wind/baskets down hill etc). What is your most reliable innova fairway might I ask..?
@@subspaceanomaly eagle X and eagle L. I have 3 Xs and 2 Ls in my bag.
Yeah! I knew the Wasp was a copy of the Roc for Cam Todd! I didn't know there was a lawsuit out of it! That's crazy!
And it is cool that the early run of Buzzz's were labeled as a "Super Straight Modified Wasp" or something like that! They were even tooled on the inside as Wasps on the first runs! And they did it again for the 10 year buzzzes 😂
Yeah, the Undertaker is solid! I'm just not a huge fan of the plus rim on it.. And the wider diameter of a lot of their fairways like the Vulture and Anax is weird to me... I don't know why, its just personal preference, I like the smaller diameter drivers better....
And the Eagle-L and X are great! I just threw Teebirds first and never looked back... I did try the Exodus though which is the Eagle-L mold and that was amazing! Like a perfectly broken in Teebird!
@@ApolloDiscGolf exactly! The exodus is amazing! I have some older eagle Ls but also have the exodus. Eagle Xs are perfect for cycling because the good one start as almost baby Firebirds and season into these amazing flippy but reliable discs. Discraft did have some cool fairways but just not as good or as wide of an offering as Innova, at least back in the day. The had the Xpress, XL, XS, cyclone, Are a few I remember
Dude you crack me up!!! Great review and history lesson on Innova and Discraft, how far were you throwing it? From my angle it looked like maybe 300', hard to tell. Keep making these vids.
Thank you! And they were all between 280ft-325ft, depends on the throw, there are some down hill, some up, some flat shots, some in headwinds, So they are all over the place 😂 But I usually throw fairways around 315-325ft!
great comparison between the similar choices!
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!
I tried to make the Teebird work for me, but after one champion and two stars, I moved on. The Evader comes out much more clean, flies straighter, but still has dependable fade. Oh, and it glides for days.
Oh yeah, I can definitely see that! Evader’s are really nice! And much more workable out of the box… they push forward really well compared to the Teebird!
Also, congrats on your football team! It’s a fun time for KU Football fans!
Yooo, let’s get a review of a really old disc, the Gazelle! I’ll even send ya some but you have to break em in and send me back! 🤪
Workable Teebird is TL or Discmania FD. That's why I don't bag Teebirds.
Yeah the FD is so good! That has really tempted me to replace my workable straight Teebirds with the FD!
have you tried the exodus? personally my favorite disc in this slot
Oh yeah, I actually did a video on it! I really liked it! Definitely not as overstable as the Teebird though! Had a touch of turn for me. I threw the splatter s-blend ones!
the Athena is actually an 8 4 0 2.
they decided at the last minute to call it a 7 5 0 2, despite it's 1.8cm rim, because it wasn't getting the distance of an 8s, and because a 7speed 5glide makes it look better than it actually is.
"This is a t-bird straight up" lol :D
Can't lie... It definitely is a Discraft Teebird 😂
Great comprehensive review. You earned a sub from me!
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!
According to PDGA website, the athena is 1mm larger in diameter than the teebird.
Interesting! Yeah I didn't measure it myself... But the Teebird's I had and the Athena's I had, the Athena's were a little easier to grip, and didn't feel as big... But again, that could be due to the top of the wing not going as high as the Teebird! But also 1mm of difference on the PDGA is a definitely within the margin for error as well! Especially between different runs!
@@ApolloDiscGolf Please measure it. I would especially like to know if the ID is 166mm as the PDGA/Mfr states in their specs. Everything else seems to be about the same except for the teebird is more flexible. BTW, which plastic is your teebird?
In this video it’s a Star Teebird! And the Athena’s might have been a touch softer than the Star, but they both had a good amount of stiffness to them!
And I can try and measure it, but I don’t have a caliper at home! I mainly go by feel because even the measurements can be deceiving! Like the Evader has the same rim depth and rim width as the Teebird, but they feel significantly smaller in the hand! Mainly because of the rim configuration! And I have no way of measuring that!
But yeah, the diameter of the Athena is pretty similar to the Teebird! I didn’t notice much difference at all with the diameter, but I can try and measure it!
The moment my Teebird/Explorer slot turns over like your orange Teebird, it's fired and gets kicked out of the bag, lol.
Wild to see I'm not the only person whose phone overheats while recording. :O
That’s not when you should be kicking them out of the bag! That’s when Teebirds are at their best!!! 😂
@@ApolloDiscGolf have you tried peeing on your phone from an elevated position to cool it off? Link to joke for reference, lol
ua-cam.com/video/vTZqox2hVek/v-deo.htmlm35s
A workable Teebird out of the box is a TL.
I mean.. if its sharper could it be trying to be a teebird3? I feel like I remember paul using 3s.
Yeah, they are pretty interchangeable to me! The Teebird3 rim is still a little fatter than the Athena! The Teebird and Teebird3 rims are very close!
It's more a teebird3 than teebird. Shocker lol that was one of Paul's tour series discs
Yeah, honestly to me those are pretty interchangeable! They are so close I practically use them for the same thing anyways 😂
@@ApolloDiscGolf interesting. Every teebird ive thrown is much more stable than the teebird3 (outside of the metal flake one anyway)
Yeah, I guess that is true! I think it was pretty similar to the yellow ones in stability. But they are still pretty stable! At least the one I have
Are you from the KC area? Is that bull creek?
Oh yeah I saw smp as well, should have watched longer before I commented
Yep! Filmed between Big Bull Creek and SMP!
A kaxe flies like that out of the box
I haven’t tried the Kaxe! But it would take a lot to beat out that echo star Teebird! That one has been in the bag for a while now.. like 6-7 years probably!
Liked and Subscribed. Great review!
Thank you! I’m glad you liked it!
Honestly would put the undertaker closer to a Valkyrie. But the undertaker came out in 2016 I think so way later. I think discraft relied on their stalker as a teebird but it’s slower and more US. Maybe they thought they couldn’t rival the teebird so that didn’t make one. Even though I may never throw one, I’m glad they made the Athena now
Love the champion valkyrie. If I had to just play with one disc from now on I think I would choose that one. It feels like it can do anything.
No way an Undertaker is a Valkyrie. Completely different shape discs. Undy is a higher speed stable buzzz. I love both btw.
Yeah, when I was comparing the two I was mainly talking about how Discraft tries to make their own staple rather than copy someone else… so instead of just making a Teebird their staple fairway to rival Innova, they went the route of making the Undertaker their staple fairway!
Not sure if you've heard it a thousand times yet, but your voice sounds so similar to Uli.
I actually haven’t heard that one before! Hopefully that’s a good thing 😂
Dis craft made the xl which was also a teebird like mold
I haven't tried the XL before! that's a pretty old mold though, right? do they still make those?
@@ApolloDiscGolf definitely an older mold, can’t remember what year it went out of production, if the Athena flies anything like the xl it’s going to be a fantastic mold
Dam right I mean when he made the Hades I'm thinking why the hell was one of his first thoughts to basically create another disc that discraft already has, literally its basically the exact flight numbers as a Thrasher, waste of time. Wheres the Teebird of discraft, wheres the eagle of discraft, shit wheres the dam Leopard of discraft 🤣
By the way the mold on the athena is completely different than the teebird and flies way better. First obvious difference is the athenas micro bead is on the inner rim instead of the outer rim. I used to be a huge vulture fan but all the sudden all the vultures fly hella overstable compared to the dumb Anax which is basically a Vulture that's less reliable. So now I can have my old school vulture flight back in the Athena.
I like what you say about throwing lower speed discs how they travel a lot less from right to left and that's exactly the reason why the best thumber discs are lower speeds cause it takes much longer for the disc to move right and flip, high speed overstables flip like understable discs when thrown on a thumb. BTW theres a secret badass thumber disc out there by discraft. And no one whould ever think to throw it on a thumb, bet no one can guess what it is, and itll do 300 feet with only barreling half way and finishing left instead of right, we actually dont call it a thumber we call it thumbahawk😉
Really think they will release this in Z?
Seems like they just make esp and big z for pauls discs which is sad as hell bcoz Z is amazing imo, like being able to buy stock z anax would be so nice.
I wouldn’t be surprised either way! I bet they make some limited stuff with them either being Big-Z or Cryztal, or something like that! A ti one would be insane but I haven’t seen any limited stuff being made in ti recently… seems like they are moving away from that plastic almost! I hardly see it much!
@@ApolloDiscGolf ikr, my favourite disc in my bag is my Ti roach, gotten 3 aces this summer with it, just love how straight it is, can really crank on it, cannot find a backup anywhere tho
It's the TeeBird3 you want to compare.
I had a 10X KC pro TeeBird back in the day. It was well seasoned and a perfect hyzer-flip disc. I could hit 400' pipe shots with it with laser accuracy. Lost at Mastin Lake DGP in Huntsville, AL.
I personally don’t see a huge difference between the Teebird3 and Teebird for me! Maybe the Teebird3 is a touch straighter, but pretty indistinguishable to me! But then again I don’t throw my fairways 400’, so you probably see more difference 😂
@@ApolloDiscGolf I remember the KC pro 10X teebirds being more domey and sharper bladed... much like the more sharply bladed teebird3, which is why I suggested it. I send a teebird3 for anything up to about 350' Beyond there, I'm going Sidewinder hyzer-flip to full flight up to around 450' Beyond that I am sending an Archon somewhere in the 520' max distance air shot and a beat pro Vulcan that I can roll around 530' all on basically flat ground with slightly elevated tee. Innova is my jam and has been for the last twenty-five years.
@@lokinakor1 oh man! The Archon and Vulcan! I don’t see much of those anymore! 😂
@@ApolloDiscGolf Josh Anton had a signature Archon as recently as 2018. Vulcan is a roller right out of the bag, so I don't know why it wouldn't be as common as a Roadrunner, but I have been enjoying it for quite a while. It takes about ten years to beat a disc in properly... I guess I just don't hit enough trees...
im weirdoes who dont like buzzz but like wasp, mostly because reliable fade and straight flight whitout side to side movement (natural flat to slight anny thrower)
Yeah the Wasp is a solid mold! I think the biggest reason the Roc was more successful back when the Wasp came out was because it’s so good to cycle and back then Discraft’s base plastic just wasn’t as good as KC Pro plastic… and Z takes forever to beat up! Now Discraft has the Jawbreaker stuff which is pretty great!
The Athena looks like my older star tbird from 2007.
Yeah it’s definitely more workable like some of the older star Teebirds!
Bought a Teebird in Gstar on accident. I thought it was regular star. Stupid thing is too flippy right now and unpredictable. Going to wait for MVP to release their version and compare it to the Teebird and Athena.
Yeah… I feel like all G-Star stuff is flippy! Not a huge fan of the gummy-ness either… but that’s more preference!
@@ApolloDiscGolf yeah actually might try a Terra or Glory instead. Got my Glitch, Pyro, and Fission Hex today. All I can say is wow to all 3.
@@billherrera6386 i wanna hear more about the glitch!
@@subspaceanomaly its so much fun. My son and I were throwing ours back and forth to each other and then throwing them at the basket. My son throws his dead straight for about 200ft. Mine tends to flip with the way I throw, so I throw it with slight hyzer and it is a laser. For shots around 100ft, it lands so soft so you can attack the basket.
@@billherrera6386 I'm really digging the concept, been throwing many discs over the years but not found a good golf disc that I can throw in that way. None for sale in my country yet..
lol echo star teebirds.. there are some folks who stockpiled those thangs, you wont ever capture that lightning in a bottle again, that regrind recycled echo star plastic was a home run shot in the dark and they cant get that plastic like that again, i had echo star destroyers that absolutely bombed
what is it about a plastic that makes such a difference do you think? I would guess a kind of elasticity/springiness on release that gets a subtle extra bit of power, but curious what is the truth
Yeah, I only have two of them! But they are amazing! And frisbee, I'm not sure what about the plastic itself. I just know that the old echostar was using their actual scraps from their other molds all put into one, but their new recycled stuff (just like every other company at this point) just used recycled plastics that they buy somewhere, it's not actually their own scraps thrown back into the machine, because you just can't do that at scale as much!
And I'm not sure if it's something about the plastic, or if those few runs of Xcals, Destroyers, and Teebirds were just a good run... It might be a little bit of both! They are just still pretty stable, but still push forward quite a bit!
@@ApolloDiscGolf even the temperature in the air or humidity when removed from their molds are an impact on dome and parting line heights and that wasn’t discovered right away, depending on what time of the year they were made the same mold and plastic could produce different “runs”
I wanna say James Conrad is selling more discs than Mcbeast in 22'. No dis to Mcbeth, Ima fan of em both. Cheers!
I don't know... maybe right after the holy shot for a little bit.. But consistently... They have to of had a couple thousand Athena's probably by now and they have all sold out instantly... They even crashed Discraft's site on the release! and it's hard to go to any course without someone having some PM line disc in their bag... his discs are everywhere... I see a lot of Envy's.. But not nearly as much as PM line discs! But that could also be regionally... There might be regions where Conrad sells more stuff. But in all of disc golf I don't know if any stuff sells as much as Paul's stuff!
That would be really interesting to see the actual numbers though!
@@ApolloDiscGolf Yea, I haven't seen any numbers either, lol. Think I'm just regurgitating something I heard on possibly a different channel. I enjoy your stuff man, cheers!
@@longjohn2155 Thanks! Glad you enjoy it!
I always thought a teebird and undertaker are very close
After hearing other people I think maybe the undertaker I threw was a pretty stable run. I throw distance drivers around 400, fairways around mid 3’s
Yeah, you can find some stable Undertakers! But for the most part they usually have some turn out of them and are more consistently like a hyzerflip fairway than a slightly overstable fairway like the Teebird! But when people talk about their go-to Teebirds, those are usually close in stability to an Undertaker!
Relay flys like your orange tee bird. DX thunderbird same exact flight but 50 more feet. Dx tee bird little more Flippy. Dx beast super Flippy
I do have a natural hyzer release. I rarely throw flat only my vulture and destroyer. Maybe my star firebird but it's just a slower vulture same exact flight
The Buzzz is a lot more like the Shark than the Roc. If you have the 2 side-by-side they look as close to each other as the Athena and Teebird do. It's more than the looks, but the stability. The Roc by default is just a tiny bit more stable than the Shark. The Shark was created 2 years after the Roc (1989 vs 1987) to be more of a "point and shoot" disc that's like a more beat-in Roc on day one. The Buzzz came out in 2003 and of course it's such a good disc. It's kinda funny how long it takes for these companies to fill in certain slots. They try hard not to make exact duplicates of each other's discs, but ultimately they break down and create something that works. Toro vs Zone. Shark vs Buzzz. Teebird vs Athena.
Yeah, I think the Buzzz took off more because it was more consistently flat topped! And it was mainly in Premium plastic! Innova throwers mainly cycled base line mids and stuck with Roc’s because of the overstability! But since the Buzzz is straighter and more workable out of the box people wanted the stability to last longer so they were nicer in their premium plastics! I think the Shark never took off because they were always a little domey…
@@ApolloDiscGolf Yep. That's why they created the Shark3. It's more flat, and adds a tiny bit more mass to the rim. It's one of the reasons I went to the Shark3 myself. The Shark ended up being popularized as a beginner's midrange and ended up in so many of those starter packs.
throw a dga pipeline for a similar flight to that orange echostar
I really need to try DGA stuff! But it would take a lot to replace that Echostar Teebird! That thing is my baby!
@@ApolloDiscGolf don't think of it as a replacement thi k of it as a backup just in case haha
Yeah I definitely need one of those! I recent threw it in the drink and I was distraught! Luckily it came back to me a week later, but that week without it was rough 😂
I've found more success using the explorer for this slot. More workable than a champ teebird out of the box.
Oh yeah! The Explorer is nice! and I agree, it's easier to find ones that are more workable out of the box. But you can definitely still find ones that are beefy for when you need one!
@@ApolloDiscGolf yeah, the opto-x and gold-x versions are definitely beefy. I like the standard opto myself.
would you ever be interested in playing a round with some fans?
Yeah I would totally be game! dm me on Instagram @apollodiscgolf
Or in the future I could do some meet ups for some rounds!
Destroyer = Nuke imo
Yeah the Nuke’s rim is WAY too big for my liking! The destroyer is a little big too… but the Nuke’s rim is ridiculous!
Buzzz is more popular and more sold then Roc ;)
Maybe today! but that would be interesting to see what the numbers were before 2019!
This feels like some discmania shit! Cant find an athena for less than 50 bucks on ebay, looks like i wont be buying one of these unless they release more!! 😒 back to t birds lmao
I mean, so far there have just been protos! So the disc hasn’t technically been released yet… hopefully everyone who wants one will be able to get one when they do officially release!
Thats an eagleX
I would say the Eagle-X is much more stable than the Athena! Those are usually more overstable than a Teebird! And the Athena pushes forward a little more than an Eagle!
T.i isn't there stable plastic n e more lol
Really? What is their most overstable plastic? I feel like ti is still the most overstable of most discs… they just don’t make a lot of ti discs anymore… with all their limited stuff they are just sticking with swirly Z or swirly esp type plastic… but if you want an overstable Undertaker, I feel like the ti ones are still your best bet
@@ApolloDiscGolf so when ti first came out it definitely was their most durable n os plastic but the colors we're horrible so they made all the light colors and now those are all much more straighter n break in so fast. A firm crystal sparkle or even just crystal is their most stable n durable plastic by far
Hmm, interesting! Their Cryztal use to be a little straighter than most! I need to try the new Cryztal stuff! Just not a fan of Cryztal FLX…
its a freaking eagle not teebird
I don’t know… the Eagle-X is usually more overstable and the Eagle-L is a little straighter than it! It definitely compares a lot closer to my Teebirds… and that would make since because Paul really leaned a lot on his Teebirds with Innova! He didn’t really throw the Eagle all that much if at all!
Innova had the Pig approved 20 days before the Zone. And it's a way better disc than the Zone. So...
Those there are fightin' words!