You do a great job!! Maybe if you try this test again attach a wire to both parts of the wrench. It would be interesting to see if it worked better or faster! Keep up the great work!!
Just discovered _seafoamworks_ *"Deep Creep"* which is a thread penetrant sounds better than what I had used for years · I have spent enough time in wheat field with Liquid Wrench like it used to be and oxy torch plus one or two pound ball-peen and cold chisel trying to remove bolts that I now can assist your efforts *strongly advising* do not try to clean all the grease off equipment using soap unless you like to feed your equipment dealer $50,000 dinner money The soap or whatever you use decomposes the grease and oil and some of it gets inside equipment by capillary action → Rust makes good nutritional iron supplement but if you izza a picky house-mouse use Steen's Blackstrap Molasses but not on the engine •••• If you want *Glitzy* get a show-car only and mount it on lowboy auto hauler trailer and never put fuel in it or try to get it to run; 10 Coats flake with 2 coats clear and a buffer with 3 spinners ( turbo ) on 10:71 Roots from abandoned Marine then Mr Hog Leg by your side to prevent theft; Banker do not care about epoxy primer, VHT high temp spray paint, Dupli color red high temp tint spray paint, and automotive clear nor that The results are well worth the brutal prep work for show-only; Useless on an MF in Kansas
Rust is a very poor conductor. Whenever using electrolysis on tools, always make sure your anode is connected to any moving/isolated parts with a rust barrier.
I use both processes. For small parts (nuts, bolts, etc.) that can fit in my Horrible Freight ultrasonic cleaner, I use Evapo-Rust. I first clean the part in the ultrasonic cleaner to remove any dirt, grease, etc. that might contaminate or inhibit the Evapo-Rust. I then drain the ultrasonic cleaner and fill it with Evapo-Rust. I use both heat and ultrasonic agitation. It works great for getting into fine threads, crevices, etc. in the small parts. Much better than just letting it passively soak in Evapo-Rust. For larger parts I use electrolysis. Note that it's important to only use plain steel in the electrolysis process--both for the part being derusted as well as the sacrificial part. Stainless steel, galvanized steel, and other plated steels can make a toxic soup. Plain steel only leaves iron oxide behind so it's safe to dump it in your yard or down the drain. I reuse it over and over until it's just nasty looking and then dump it. Even when it's so brown you can't see anything in it, it's still effective for electrolysis. Another great video. Thank you and happy new year.
@@ProjectFarm Horrible Freight is a good name lol. Just a tip, HF has a lot of great stuff for cheap, and a lot of garbage for cheap. If you want to have a good HF experience, you have to know what to buy cheap and what not to.
@@ProjectFarm Notice the moving side of the wrench isn't nearly as clean as the handle. I suspect that's because you didn't attach wire to that part directly. Its depending on the bond or rust in between to carry current to it.
just posted and saw urs ya evprorust got a channel on it also you dont have to remove it just put evprorust in a glass or plastic container or a heavy duty ziplock bag in put in the soapy water then you dont need to fill it up looking at getting a good ultrasonic cleaner
every time you extend the dipping time in electrolysis, you NEED to clean up the sacrificial piece of steel, otherwise the conduction is weakened by the rust accumulation.
@@suchistheuniverse7858 my guess: because it rusts as well, and because it is so thin, it will rust all the way through very fast. Once that happens, it will stop conducting to the plate.
Ideally, you need to connect the wire directly to the adjustable jaw for it to work. It wasn't getting a connection from the battery charger from the beginning.
I grew up in a race car shop. We used electrolysis all the time. If you want that adjustable wrench to get free from electrolysis, wrap one of your negative wires around the adjuster. The electrical flow is not jumping the rust gap between the wrench and the adjuster.
You could skip the wire brush with better negative wire placement. The brushing got enough of the rust gap out of the way so the current could flow through it. Just put one of the negatives on the actual adjuster too, won't have to brush.
@@ProjectFarm Hey man, thank you for doing all these cool comparrisons. I love all the ones with JB weld the best, I have been using that stuff for almost 20 years, and I'm only 34 years old lol. But I like to see that nothing has dethroned it yet.
Can I suggest that every few hours, as the rust builds up on the sacrificial steel and wire, you give it a quick scrub with a wire brush. This exposes clean steel, which will speed up the electrolysis, and you will not have to wait 72hrs
It doesn't need to be, it's part of circuit. Technical he only needs one lead on that wrench. Think of how many contact points are in those treads. I'm surprised it didnt take longer. Cool video
@@adammartinez5666 Um sorry if I disappoint you but yes it does there is so much corrosion on that part that it could not conduct electricity same as when a corroded battery terminal will not pass voltage to a starter this is a no brainer! And to clarify since it's clear you thought I was suggesting that the actual part had to be connected that is obviously not what I meant
@@adammartinez5666 I was thinking the same thing. He didn't do anything wrong, other than not wait long enough. Also, he could have sand blasted it periodically. But then again if he had access to a sand blaster he might have realized how silly this video was to begin with. :p
At least he asked how he did, I’m glad he’s always looking to improve because the location of the electrodes may not have occurred to him at all when setting up the experiment.
I've been experimenting with electrolytic rust removal for years, in fact that was how I first encountered the late Aussie50's channel. First, having a large surface area on the sacrificial anode speeds things up, so a flat piece of sheet steel or plate works better then pieces of re-bar. Second, face the side of the object you need to strip towards the anode, then flip the object around to do the other side, unless you have more then one anode plate connected at the same time. Third, cleaner DC works better then DC with a lot of AC ripple, which is what a car battery charger puts out, adding a capacitor across the output will help. Forth, if you have an object with multiple parts like the worm gear block on that wrench, add an extra loop of wire to those parts as well. My next experiment will be to use a higher voltage then 14-15 vdc, which is what the charger puts out with a capacitor across the output, and maybe a stronger mix of electrolyte, washing soda is what I used, about 1/2 per gallon in a plastic garbage can. I have heard of some people using lye, which will strip the pain off of things as well, but then you have to neutralize the lye or it will not hold paint. Evapo-rust has one advantage, it does not harm aluminum, which electrolytic stripping potentiality can, so it's good for things that have parts made out of different metals. I don't know what is in Evapo-rust or Metal Rescue, but I suspect that it is a chelation process similar to using molasses and water, but something more effective and faster.
If you care to do so, you can look up the patent application filed for Metal Rescue which does reveal that it uses a chelation process. It is an alkali process and, per the patent, requires three ingredients mixed together in proper proportions. The patent application describes a number of various combinations of ingredients that will generate the process, and of course, Armor All who owns the product is applying to patent the combination that they believes works best and is the most efficient to manufacture. The most critical ingredient in the process is Thiourea, an organic compound. At this point in time there are many ways to deal with rusted items, some of which actually remove the rust and some of which convert the rust to a stable form. Some processes that remove rust use acids, some use alkali. Some processes use abrasives to remove the rust. And there is even laser removal. All of them work, more or less, and each of them are somewhat better suited to different items with varying degrees of rusting. Thus, you can watch endless videos about rust elimination comparisons and get a lot of information plus see the processes in action. This is very valuable, of course, but there truly is NO universally superior method of dealing with rust that is "best' for all rusted items so its truly useless to compare various methods. As was concluded correctly in this video, each process is well suited for some projects but not as well suited for others. And that's the way it is for any process. So...take your pick!
I use electrolysis frequently and found a couple of things that help. The more anodes you have the better it works and that cleaning the anodes of build up keeps the process efficient. The build up is easily wire wheeled if they are still damp, once they dry out for a few days the build up hardens.
Some other noteworthy advantages of electrolysis: The sodium carbonate is not “used up” and can be used indefinitely as long as lost water is replaced periodically and the electrolyte solution is strained or filtered to remove the sediments that build up. There is no danger of removal of metal (apart from loose rust that flakes off); no matter how long it runs, no iron will be etched away. Under some conditions less oxygen is removed, leaving “black rust”, the same substance as gun bluing, which will slow down the formation of “orange (bad) rust, with the help of light oiling. It is easy to make a temporary “tub” for larger parts. I’ve draped plastic dropcloth over a ring of cinderblocks to create a small “tank” on the back patio. Use heavier duty dropcloth for this. I have read that the process is cleaner using graphite rod as the sacrificial anode. Since the graphite does not react to the released oxygen there is minimal debris produced. Actually it’s not “sacrificial” at all! I’ve thought of trying the graphite pencils sold at craft stores like Michael’s for a small scale setup.
Jester123ish, I don't know. I looked up the differences between the traditional carbon-zinc batteries I grew up with, and the more recent alkaline batteries. The core electrodes are slightly different; the older ones have a pure carbon core, usually graphite with a binder, while the newer ones use a bronze plated nickel collector, so I would say no. Michaels sells "woodless" pencils, which are solid graphite, and Amazon carries carbon fiber rods used in RC planes, which are also a form of graphite.
David LaPierre, I put on my thinking cap (my good one, not the one from work) and came up with a theory. It's possible that the graphite rods are porous and somewhat soft. I suspect that the bubbles of hydrogen produced from the electrolysis of the water form under the rod's surface, causing the graphite to gradually flake off.
I've tried many different rust removal processes over the years and I've found electrolysis to be the best in most cases. I like it mainly because it doesn't attack the parent metal like acids do, although soaking rusty or old files in vinegar will clean them up and actually help sharpen them in the process. Blunted file teeth are reduced in size, so the effect is like filing each tooth, at a microscopic level on all planes, which results in them becoming sharper. It won't get them as sharp as new, but it certainly will sharpen them some. If you have a well used file that tends to skip or slip instead of cutting, dunk it in vinegar for a day or two in many cases, it will cut again. Electrolysis is also beneficial in another way; generally there are two kinds of rust on old tools or metals, the red outer layer of rust, which is the compound Fe2O3, or ferric oxide. Red rust is flaky because it takes up more volume than the metal it replaced. On very rusty things, you typically find a harder, darker layer of corrosion, almost a purply-grey in color, underneath the red oxide. This is Fe3O4, which is basically the same as magnetite. It is deceiving as it appears the metal under the red rust is just darkened, but is still corrosion. You can think of the Fe3O4 layer as sort of the intermediate stage of rusting, it hasn't turned to full on red ferric oxide rust yet. Fresh, or good steel and iron will have a silvery gray color. Electrolysis will actually convert the dark Fe3O4 back to iron! The red rust gets converted to Fe3O4, the same stuff as the dark underlying corrosion, but since it is already loose and flaky it will fall off. The conversion also makes the red rust flakes black or very dark (just like the hard Fe3O4 layer underneath it). A mistake often made in the process is to use too high a current and voltage in the process. Battery chargers work, but realistically for good quality conversion lower voltage and amperage is needed. It seems counter intuitive, but higher amperage and voltage will erode instead of convert the underlying Fe3O4. This might not be an issue for tools, per se, but if you do any research into the process, those who use it on artifacts will use a much lower voltage and amperage for better quality conversion to preserve the piece as much as possible. A power supply that produces current in the milliamp range is better than using several amps from a battery charger. If you don't have such a power supply, or don't want to buy or make one, you can insert a small lamp, like a brake light bulb in series to reduce the amperage in the tank. The higher the wattage of the lamp, the lower the amperage in the tank. Also, never use stainless steel for the cathode. Stainless contains chromium, which leeches chromium compounds into the solution during the process. These are a very toxic and probably illegal to dump down the drain, not to mention hazardous to you! Only use plain iron or steel for the cathode and for the wire hanging and/or connecting the pieces! Plain steel and iron on the anode end won't be affected by the process, so wiring to hang and connect the pieces won't get "eaten." Sheet steel makes great cathodes as you can put multiple plates of it in the tank. It's better if you have a cathode surrounding the pieces to be cleaned. Also, as some have noted, make sure you have all your pieces electrically connected. If you see a piece that isn't cleaning, that means it needs a connection.
"Electrolysis will actually convert the dark Fe3O4 back to iron!" Read the comments in Ken Sweden's video (a chemist) where he says that is impossible: ua-cam.com/video/8ulL57OgGu0/v-deo.html&lc=UgzZvfU30rtXrT8LVrh4AaABAg.925slTrVO6B926M-jR6oHo and I quote: "Rust is never converted back to iron, it is impossible. For that you need 2000 degrees and a melt furnace."
@@otofoto it's Sodium Carbonate. Specifically not sodium bicarbonate or sodium percarbonate. Here's a link. www.amazon.com/Arm-Hammer-Super-Washing-Soda/dp/B0029XNTEU
Some advice for anyone wanting to try electrolysis, use a brush to remove some of the rust on the item that you're trying to clean so the wire is in better contact with the metal.
Hey Project Farm, just an FYI an adjustable Power Source is FAR better to use than a Battery charger. You can set it to 24V+ and closely monitor the Amperage. The time it takes to use a 14-16v for electrolysis is also MUCH longer than when using 24V. The clear Amp reading is also helpful in getting the right amount of baking soda in the water, or to see if your plates are impeding progress. If the dilution is too low you will have low current (aiming for 2A is optimal), same goes for the plate over time! Cleaning the sacrificial piece is a big big factor in the time it takes for heavier jobs!
I got some silicone spray for my car's electric windows and the tube came off and fell inside the window gap. It's still there. The window goes up and down fine, but I still imagine that little red tube bouncing around all the moving parts.
Not trying to kill the fun, I actually have a used container stuck to the wall next to my garage door just for that purpose, all spray can straw goes there. That container and its content are some of the few permanently placed stuff in my garage.
+poppaluv That helps, but isn't strictly needed. The path of electrons in a conductive fluid is seldomly a straight line path. Metals are pretty close to perfect carriers of the electric field, so the field strength will be roughly the same along the whole piece of metal that has electrical contact. Roughly the same 0V is present along the whole surface of the wrench, and roughly the same 12v is present along any unoxidized surface on the anode. The difference being length of path between the outward facing sides of the two metals compared to inward facing sides, so more current flows along the inside paths than the longer paths, but some current certainly still flows along all parts of the cathode.
In case that you going to do that again, wire all movable parts to the negative, on bigger pieces you can wire it more places, you can also use more than 1 sacrifice metal at once. Also you can clean the sacrifice metal, brushing or sanding it when it gets too much rusted. You can do electrolysis with the sacrifice metal on the negative, when you want to cover something on copper or zinc, so those will be the sacrifice, and they will attach on the main piece, but you need to change the environment using another liquid solution.
I’ve used electrolysis to de-rust an old railroad signal, and here are a few tips. It is largely a line of sight process, so you either need to rotate the pieces, or use multiple sacrificial anodes. I take a few pieces of rebar, bond them together with copper wires, and set them around my container. For things with many parts, try to disassemble it as much as possible. Like others mentioned, the adjuster didn’t get de-rusted much because firstly there was little path for the current, but also it has a hard time doing its job because of the lack of line of sight between the inside of the adjuster and the anodes.
For the electrolysis you have to provide a big surface area, so your sacrificial electrode has to be at least as big as your rusty part. the wrench also has a bad contact. you can clearly see it at 2:18
I think if there would have been direct contact to part that adjusted it would have helped eat the rust off. Like you said, there is little to no bubbling occurring so it didn't have good contact
Electricity finds the path of least resistance. As the wrench handle lost rust, the electricity would preferentially flow through the handle and less through the movable jaw. I think it would have helped to connect to only the movable jaw at some point.
My first thought is no it wouldn't make a difference. On second thought rust isn't conducive to electrical currents and if the bridge between the two parts is mostly rust on both sides then you might have a point.
Exactly! You need to make sure that all parts of the item are connected to the supply source. Rust is a terrible conductor of electricity, so naturally, the movable jaw really wasn't connected to the source in any significant way.
The darker appearance after electrolysis looks like you “blued” the metal, turning the red rust to a more stable iron oxide often called black rust. Proper and complete bluing of metals will prevent the damaging and corrosive red rust from taking hold. It was more popular before chroming was a thing but it still works pretty well.
for optimal efficiency the sacrificial metal anode should be cleaned with a wire brush at the end of every day. otherwise the rust cannot transfer properly
Or instead of using a sacrificial metal, swap it for a piece of graphite. Graphite will end up (a) easier to clean (b) doesn't need to be cleaned as often to keep the electrolysis process optimal.
It's better to use a passive electrode. Stainless steel is an affordable option, and graphite would likely work but I haven't tried it. The rust doesn't transfer between pieces, it's just reduced to Fe2+ from Fe3+ by adding electrons. Using a sacrificial electrode slows down the process by adding a bunch of Fe3+ to the water (in my experience).
@@ImTheJoker4u you guys may be missing the point of sacrificial metal ... in a hot water heater once the sacrificial rod is gone the water starts to attack the tank, thats what i know so im assuming this sacrificial metal is needed for the same reason
i am pretty knowledgeable on the physics of the electrolysis, so i have some insights: rust is a poor electrical conductor (it is a poor thermal one as well, but that isn't important here), so scraping off a small section to get better contact with the electrode to the rusted thing you are using will help. the distance the oxygen molecules have to travel decreases the speed of the process, so moving the sacrificial anode closer will help speed things up. the better the conductivity of the fluid the faster the process works, so mixing in the carbonate was a good idea. as travel time is important facing the sides that you want the rust to be removed and where you want it deposited (sacrificial anode) will help speed things along. try to get all pieces of an object connected to the electrode, other wise the electricity has to travel through the electrolyte solution to the piece to energize the pieces not connected, which slows the process down for those parts. cleaning the sacrificial anode will help keep the process from slowing down as the anode rusts and inhibits electrical flow. a steady amount of ionization keeps things flowing, as the voltage drops the ionization will shift, possibly adding rust to the thing you want rust removed from. overall the rust will be removed, but this slows the process greatly and may slightly alter the shape of the object being cleaned. more voltage isn't always better, the process on the rusted object and anode works at a given amount of voltage. the extra voltage that may help is based on ionizing the fluid, at a certain point the voltage will separate the water (even microscopically), increasing resistance and eating up more amperage while inhibiting oxygen flow slowing the process. so to speed thing up go ahead and increase voltage until you see a decrease or a slowing of the rate of bubbling per volt increase, then back it off to the 'good range' and keep in mind any sort of change (even taking the stuff out to weight it then putting it back) might change that range slightly. the process works based on flow, so it works best on the surface with lots of fluid around it, so it will work slower in nooks and crannies. stuff in water likes to separate out, agitating the water every so often can help, though keep in mind the water needs to be ionized to work, and agitation can disrupt localized ionization. so try no to agitate the water between the anode (sacrificial metal) and cathode (thing being cleaned).
@@markm.3101 it is based on the charge of the metals. there are charts which list in order the galvanic action between metals. having two metals which react strongly will help, but the difference in electrical use to overcome this and accelerate it makes this a minor issue, but the different metals would be a factor.
Ok just trying to compare it to how we protect underground structures. For instance with gas pipelines we use magnesium or zink. We energize carbon anodes with DC power also.
@@markm.3101 it is the same principles as such, except you are trying to do it faster and smoother. the big difference is that it is in water, so the better comparison would be the anodes on boats. again same principles so you will see almost identical setups to some of the pipelines and such. it is very similar to the order of noble metals, though sometimes one ends up being more or less reactive due to some where reason (carbon/graphite is one which flips around with gold/platinum). with the boats you use zinc (or aluminum in fresh water sometimes), and then you energize the metal parts with DC electricity, though you try to match the electrical potential of the water when it reacts to the steel on your boat, as any higher eats your zinc mainly from the metals in the water (though it will eat some of the steel parts, sending the iron particles to your zinc). of course boats tend to move, and the more they move the less they rust. that is due to the ions causing the rust, and if the boats is moving then the ions have less time to work their magic. if the water is kept from moving you end up with more pock marks due to rust, due to bubbles forming and blocking the salt ions from getting to the iron atoms.
I've had good luck with Evaporust inside an ultrasonic cleaner. I put the Evaporust and the part in a little plastic container that I can then immerse in the water. Seems to work quite well!
Man Everytime I see one of your videos on my homes screen I'm like "Yeah I really would like to know which one is better". Great job on keep us informed.
@@ProjectFarm Besides the professional analytical approach to comparing various tools/processes,you cover subjects of great interest to a huge audience. Thank you. Too bad critics don't have to pay a fee to lodge their contempt.
Thanks for sharing! I have used electrolysis for over 20 years. Its a great process, can be dumped down the drain too when done. Also, if you can't find washing soda you can make your own by baking baking soda. Most parts I do are in much smaller containers so you don't need a giant tank.
I was thinking that too. Non flammable and non poisoning as far as i know. Im not sure what it will do with electricity breaking the chemical bonds though... especially since I don't know what it's made of.
@@nechastivi3187 gold wire should be the best, but i wouldn't use it. steel should be the worst of the three you gave, the rest follow exactly what you said (minus other materials like gold wire or something).
@@jamoecw Yeah, as I said Silver > Gold > Copper > Aluminium > Steel Copper is the best for this bcs it's relatively cheap and only like 10 % less conductive than silver.
It Really shows by looking through these comment sections that you truly care about your audience and does what not many creators do, you stay connected to your viewers even nearly 2 years on. Your Amazing
I've noticed that you had the electrolysis wire hanger leads only to the non moving part of the wrench. After first inspection, it was easy to tell you could have used another wrap of wire around the moving section AND the thumbscrew for better conduction/effectiveness JFYI Loved the video. Keep up the good work
I could be wrong but, I believe you meant to say “brass brush” when you were cleaning off rust instead of “copper”. Copper would make for pretty crappy brush. HA! Another well done & interesting video. Thanks & keep em coming.
The thing is, it isn't just rust that breaks down. The molecules of the chemicals in the water can too. No telling what nasty gases might come out with Evapo-Rust.
Thanks for this. I love Evaporust. The only thing I’ve seen for hobbyists that comes close to it is electrolysis but I’m rarely in a position to set up a large electrified water bath or a safe way to run current thru it or have a sacrificial hunk of metal. Much safer & easier for me to use a non-toxic, single step process with no extra parts. Good to know I can make that choice and get a good result with either. I tested Evaporust on flash rust against vinegar water on 2 screwdrivers overnight. The Evaporust was good, rinsed off & given a quick buff with a magic eraser (or steel wool with some Evaporust in it has worked too.) My vinegared screw driver - the rust looked gone but it decayed the plastic handle. Upon rinsing, it immediately flash rusted back to its original state 😖. So it works, but is only safe for bare metal then Needs immediate attention with rust inhibitors afterward making it ok for thicker rust, or cleaning metal objects, but once the rust is off, the exposed surface is highly susceptible to more rust. Whereas the Evaporust can be rinsed and stays unrusted longer - even a few days, making it less fraught to get it protected, and my favorite thing. (Next I want to try using it in a rock tumbler on interesting looking metal bits I found while walking my dog.)
Use a bigger sacrificial piece of steel I take screen or chicken wire fold it a couple times and line the whole tub then take a wooden stick and hang part in the middle with wire use a 15 to 20 amp charger has to be transformer type charger. It would only take 24 hours and all rust would be gone. Works on chromed parts as well removes rust without scratching. Clean screen as bubbles slow to inprove speed. Be careful tho make sure to turn off charger before connecting or disconnecting cause the hydrogen and oxygen gas it creates is highly flamable/explosive !!!
You are absolutely right, you have to make the sacrificial anode into a "cage" so that you can suspend the cathode (rusty part) in the center, that way the electrolysis attacks the cathode from all directions.
I have put the anode as a flat steel panel in the bottom and a couple layers of fiberglass window screen on top and lay parts on that. Keeping the anode clean is important. Every 4-5 hours I clean the anode with a brush.
@@grizzlygrizzle Oh, most definately because electrolysis releases hydrogen gas as well as oxygen. And we all know what a hydrogen/oxygen igition can do. Isn't it ironic that H2O is so stable that it puts out fires, but separate them and 'boom!".
I’ve used the electrolysis method before with several sacrificial pieces in the same tank and it worked great after only 24 hours, even on small parts in a small container. Never used Evaporust however it seems to do well but too much time and cost!
Yep, I've used Evaporust too, and it does work well but is expensive, and if you don't use a covered container it will all...evaporate...I think I'll have to look into an electrolysis setup.
From my own experience I have found cleaning grade vinegar to be an excellent rust remover. I emphasize "cleaning" grade which is much stronger than food grade. It's a heck of a lot cheaper than Evapo-rust also.
Thanks for this video. I used both. First electrolysis but had some slight flash rusting after drying it. So then I soaked in evaporust overnight. This remove residual rust and protected it from flash rusting. Worked great!!
@@ProjectFarm what's the name of that acid you use in some of your videos and what will happen if you mix some with gas and put the mixture into a mower and how long will it run?
From what I've seen, what you want is to remove most of the rust with physical means and use electrolysis to get the super hard to remove layer, and out of all the pockmarks and shit
I've seen a video where a guy used a block of carbon (graphite) as the sacrificial electrode. It doesn't decompose like the steel, and keeps the solution cleaner. Trouble is, such carbon rods (as for electrical discharge machining) are costly. Perhaps a budget trip to Chernobyl might yield a suitable block of graphite? Just kidding! Happy new year, esp. to that long-suffering Toro!
What about the center of an old 6 volt battery? I saw an old King of Random video (oof) where he used them as electrodes for an arc furnace. They are small, but you get 4 of them so that might still work.
Could also grind the copper off a carbon arc gouging rod. They're pretty inexpensive. Also the possibility of taking apart old lamp batteries and getting Carbon rods from them.
Electrolysis works. The drawbacks are that it’s very time consuming, creates flammable hydrogen gas, and laborious to set up. However there are no toxic chemicals involved.
@John Ulicky, in what timespan are you asking? Because over time if hydrogen pools (like in your ceiling) it can produce a helluva bang. I don't worry so much about hydrogen being flammable. I worry more about it going BANG.
It's blatantly obvious the movable jaw of the wrench had no electrical connection to the battery charger. You should have noticed that and wired it in.
lots of good comments. I use both also. Generally if I'm in a hurry and the parts are small, Evapo Rust is fine. But if I'm not in such a hurry or the parts are big, definitely Electrolysis. In Electrolysis, you can do better by using a higher voltage, like 24 V. You are NOT getting rid of rust, you are just changing the "red" rust which is Fe2O3, which is common rust, which also "sticks" pretty well to the steel, to Black rust, Fe3O4 which does is actually a pretty beneficial coating on steel, as it protects it from red rust. Black rust also can be easily wiped or brushed off. Yes, you should clean your sacrificial steel parts every day or two. More wires is good. And you don't need to add more washing soda. it isn't used up. So electrolysis is MUCH cheaper to use.
Your wire around the wrench is causing a dead spot in between the wraps hurting the electrolysis process, notice the electrolysis pattern coming off the wrench when it's in the tank, you can see the deadspo where no bubbles are coming off it. WOuld be cool to weigh the sacrificial steel and see if the weight removed from the pieces equals the weight added to the sacrificial piece.
Both are excellent from want I’ve seen here and in other videos, my go to rust remover has been old fashion vinegar. Super cheap, I’ve used it on cast iron skillets and vintage hand tools. Still a wire brush will be needed, sometimes you just have to get physical. As always Todd does a excellent job, thorough yet concise. Todd your effort to inform and educate is much appreciated.
@@carpediemarts705 vinegar mixed 50/50 with water works just fine with no bad effects, once it is dry its gone. Professional painters, specifically bridge engineers, have used this for decades yo protect and paint structural grade steel. Personally I paint rusted steel with POR-15 after decaying and using the vinegar/water rinse. It opens up the pores in the bare steel and allows for better adhesion of the paint. Steel that can't get to air can't oxidize.
So for rust removal if you have a delicate part that needs to be saved you can use molasses and water. Ratios from 4:1 to 10:1 water to molasses work, its slow and it stinks high heaven but if you have large delicate parts that need to be saved I have not found a better cheaper method. Evaporust is faster but costs more. The one thing I noticed, when I put some brake shields in and left them for two weeks, was after I pulled them out there was a layer of black iron oxide Fe3O4 was able to be washed off and the metal was bright and shiny then as the water dried off I could literally see the rust forming in the water spots. So when I did the next round of parts when I pulled them out I washed them in some kerosine to protect them from air and water.
@@kiyoponnn I didn't suggest to use molasses. But if you're gonna use it to get rid of rust I'd imagine organic would work better. Maybe not. Shit I could be wrong.
When evapo rust darkens, it’s pretty much dead. When I remove my part from the evapo rust I spray it with baking soda mixed water. You’ll be surprised how much it helps. In general, if you can’t see the item in the evapo rust, change the fluid
Hydrogen is evolved at the negative connection and oxygen at the positive one. It's the hydrogen which reacts with the iron oxide, reducing it to iron. Of course, the oxygen at the steel electrode used here creates an accelerated rust bucket!
@Project farm : Your videos are awesome 👏🏻 One suggestion (and I know this video is old) : I use evaporust quite a lot in my ultrasonic cleaner (medical grade one), about 1/2 quart for 5 gallons of water heated at 50C, it is way more effective when the temp is higher so you can play with level of dissolution 👍🏻
I also had a rusted adjustable spanner . Only difference being I used fresh white vinegar and submerged it right to the top . It ended up taking 6 days of total submerging to clean off the rust . As you spoke of in the video there are also some other products available . Many months after I did this vinegar de-rusting , a radiator shop man spoke of a product used in automotive cooling system/radiator cleaning that also may be a help for de-rusting tools . This product came in a powder form and needed to be mixed with water and was called "Oxalic Acid" . You may have already herd of it . I've always liked your videos , yours are so good . bye for now .
@@ProjectFarm ive done this a few times and when using a battery charger or power supply watch the amps when the sacraficial steel is clean vs dirty. The amps are way less when its dirty because of the less connectivity or higher resistance. And vise versa when its fresh and clean. Also make sure to use washing soda not baking soda. I forget what kinda gas it puts off but its bad news bears
@@electromechanicalstuff2602 baking soda and water give off hydrogen, oxygen, and carbon dioxide gas when used as an electrolyte. Not sure which one is bad news for you?
@@ProjectFarm also avoid Stainless steel as an anode as it produces waste that's illegal to put down the drain in the form of chromates and hexavalent chromium. if the solution turns yellow that's a sign that you formed chromates.
this is great,...i think you would have gained movement on the wrench much quicker if the wire was on the moving section. you could see that the handle section was getting much cleaner than the travel section, the current travel had to pass through the handle section to get to the travel section. I believe this would have made a significant difference in the time it took to clean it up. very good videos and very informative. this will be beneficial to anyone on the outside looking in to using electrolysis when cleaning metal.
I use electrolysis. I have a metal "c" clamp on the negative lead. I took the pivoting foot off of the end of the screw part of the c clamp and I ground a point on the end of the threaded shaft. This allows good contact with the base metal being cleaned. I screw the clamp tight onto the rusted piece. The pointy tip digs in and makes contact. Try it. It works great. I get great results this way. Nice video. George.
When I have done this I used a very similar charger to his and it was showing 5 amp but seemed to taper as the sacrificial metal got coated. I would clean or replace it to aid the process. I never tested the current draw at the 120v side but I believe the electrical usage to be minimal. Far less than charging a battery for a long time.
you can get a ballpark figure with any setup: using a multimeter (to measure resistance) disconnect the electrical leads from the charger, then connect the multimeter when it is set to measure resistance. once you have that number connect the leads from the charger and use the multimeter to measure voltage when the charger is on. now divide the volts over the ohms (the number you got measuring resistance), and this should be very close to the amps you are drawing. as the anode rusts the resistance increases, which will decrease the amps used, and slow the process. another thing to know is that by multiplying the amps by the volts will give you the watts, and thus the unit used by the power company to charge you money. the charger will use some electricity in converting the power to DC and lowering it for a car battery, so the numbers you get won't be exact (not to mention that reality never perfectly matches theory).
It looks like the charger used can go up to 10 amps. So 10A*12v = 120W. With an 80% efficiency. 120W/.8 = 150W per hour 150W * 96 hours = 14400w or 14.4 kWh 14.4 kWh * 11cents = $1.58 or where I live 14.4kWh * 30cents = $4.32 Its unlikely it was drawing the maximum 10amps so its more likely half of that .79cents this also dose not include the cost of the baking soda. Considering evaporust is $7.34 a quart i think it really does depend on the size of the part.
@@xiro6 assuming the charger has an amp meter, and that it is accurate enough to handle the slop when multiplied out quite a bit for time. only very expensive chargers have accurate ones, and really cheap ones may even lack a meter. but yes if you do have an accurate one then checking the amp draw meter (some even have a different meter between draw and supply) would be the simplest way. of course knowing in more detail as to why you draw those amps can help refine your setup, so knowing the actual volts and the resistance in the setup can help identify flaws.
Absolutely love you videos. FYI, the slider lagged behind the wrench handle because it was relatively electrically isolated from the current since there was no direct electrical connection to that part an rust is a very poor conductor. Keep up your great testing👍👍
This video combines my two fields of expertise (chemistry and occupational health and safety) perfectly, but I'll try to keep it short due to the importance. Both processes do practically the same, they remove iron from the chemical compound "rust", or iron oxide-hydrate. While the electro-chemical way uses electric current, the evapo rust uses some kind of chelating agent to overcome the bond energy of the rust. The brown stuff forming on the sacrifice metal is forming due to the alkaline solution (soda). The freed iron ions react directly with the basic compound to form basic iron hydroxide, similar to rust in appearance and composition. The ohas-specialist in me hopes desperately you took the proper precautions to prevent an explosion due to the forming mixture of hydrogen and oxygen. Your eight grams of iron set free about three liters of hydrogen, resulting in an explosive mixture of around 50 Liters (lower explosive level of 4 %) which is highly dangerous. And this does not account for any hydrogen forming without any iron involved due to overpotential (the battery charger delivers a far higher voltage than needed). If anyone attempts to repeat the experiment, please make sure you ventilate the area extremely well and keep any sources of ignition out of the direct vicinity of the basin. Or use the non-explosive evapo rust. It may be more expensive, but losing the hearing ability, a limb or even your life is far worse! I would highly appreciate, if you added this information to the video.
Wouldnt a candle close to the electrolisys burn all of the flamable gases before they reach a dangerous amount? My dad always told me to do electrolisys with a candle on a plastic dish floating on the water...
Unfortunately not. Since hydrogen is far lighter than air (that's why airships are/have been filled filled with it), it accumulates at the highest point in any room. But since that's where usually the lamp is mounted, any source of heat (hot enough), sparks or ignition will set off an explosive atmosphere once built up. The problem is, that mixtures, which are too meagre, do not burn, but once the threshold is reached, they explode suddenly. And the candle trick is also pointless: Since hydrogen is lighter than air, pretty much all of simply passes the flame upwards, completely unaffected. Only the very small amount, that reaches the temperature (more than 420 °C and oxidising conditions) in direct vicinity of the flame will be burned. This would only work, if *all* the gas from the electrolysis is passed through a burner, which is done for combustible organic matter like solvents. In the worst case, you just give the explosion a source of ignition by lighting the candle, and as soon as the mixture reaches the flame, you can kiss your shop, and in the worst case your life, goodbye.
I’ve been under the impression that during the electrolysis process it is the negative oxygen ions which are drawn to the positive sacrificial anode, where they form rust on it. This is why the sacrificial metal is eaten away by corrosion, which means it needs to be periodically replaced. Any iron ions, having a positive, charge, will stick to the negative cathode. All that happens, besides the electrolysis of the water into oxygen and hydrogen, is that the oxygen is removed from the rust, leaving the plain iron. Also I have read that the sodium carbonate washing soda is not chemically involved in the process, but merely provides an electrically conductive medium which permits current flow between the anode and cathode. Thus the washing soda is not used up and can be reused indefinitely with the occasional addition of water to replace that lost to evaporation and electrolysis. It should also be filtered periodically to remove the corrosion debris that falls from the sacrificial plate(s). I hope this clarifies what is happening during electrolytic derusting.
The wrench was not done properly because the moving part was not connected to the wire and the rust and crude on it prevented the electricity from flowing through it.
If you watch the video carefully, you'll notice that the body of the wrench was really bubbling, but the sliding sleeve, hardly at all. That's because there wasn't a direct connection to the slider. Had that been connected directly, the electrolysis would have worked much better. It's also worth noting that the gas given off at the anode is oxygen ... that's why it rusts. The gas given off at the cathode is hydrogen which reduces the iron II III oxide (rust) to black iron II oxide. That's how the electrochemistry works. Interesting video.
Very interesting comparison - Thanks! I've also had good luck with Evaporust, (been very good on small old car parts) but now know what I will do with that old fish tank no one has used since my kids grew up and my old, OLD battery charger. Would love to see a comparison of small "Dremel style" grinders, corded and battery. Thank you for caring.
I was about to say the same thing. I think since the wrench has 3 moving parts, looks like the handle part was probably getting most of electrolysis effect, the rust might have made a bad connection between all the moving parts
@@edwardmulder3777 vinegar is the absolute worst rust remover, of any potential rust remover you could use. it both removes metal AND does a relatively poor job of removing rust. I wish people would stop recommending it.
Change your sacrificial piece of metal through the process this long because the metal takes on the rust and becomes less and less effective during the electrolysis. Also helps if you place the object near the metal BUT NOT TOUCHING makes for a better process. Great video to watch.
I wonder if manually removing some of the rust from the sacrificial metal after the first few days would have freed up some surface area for the electrolysis reaction to continue at the same speed, and if that would've improved results for that method.
I agree with comments to tie in as many wrench sections is essential. As far as the nuts,, they cannot be freed up as the rust particulates are unable to travel the thread course to escape the confines of the nut itself to traverse the electrolyte solution to the promised land. I also believe the positive collector became consumed and less able to provide prime available surface for collection and current flow. Slow action on the less connected part also proves the viability of the process. Thanks for the video!
Heres a lesson for who ever tries electrolysis, I put a gas tank off a garden tiller in my tank. It was pretty rusty on the inside, it had water in the gas for a long time. When I went back after I thought it had enough time, btw this isn't by no means the first time of doing this, so when I picked it up out of the tank it looked like you had shot it with 01buck shot ,it had eaten holes all through it. So make sure that there's enough metal there if you do this to something thin.
You should have put the wire on the rusted piece on the wrench. It did not remove it because they are 2 separate pieces of steel. Nevertheless Great Job.
Having too much sodium bicarbonate actually can hurt you. If the electrolyte solution is too conductive, the electricity doesn't spread around the electrode as well, and you can get patchy results. Didn't seem to matter here since the parts being cleaned are solid steel and highly conductive, plus you had the two electrodes quite far apart, but worth noting for the future if you ever try electroplating or something. In other news, on a "favourite things of 2018" video I saw in another channel, someone mentioned Hercules ProPoxy as being ridiculously strong stuff... it's a putty, but supposedly strong even compared to liquids. I'm quite skeptical of that claim personally, but might be worth putting on the list to check out next time you're comparing glues.
It doesn't matter if it's carbonate or bicarbonate--some of those bubbles coming off the anode are carbon dioxide (some gets dissolved in solution and recombines); the eventual product is sodium hydroxide. You could avoid the intermediate step and use lye instead of washing soda, but with considerably more caution in the solution prep. Sodium carbonate is nearly as effective in this case, as it dissociates quite easily; it's used for cleaning purposes where hot water is involved, as it hydrolyzes quite readily.
tubastuff I thought that carbon dioxide dissolved in water would create carbonic acid, which would tend to neutralize the sodium hydroxide, assuming your premise is valid. Also a half cup of sodium carbonate in 5 gallons of water is an awfully dilute solution.
Evapo rust is a modern day formula of what we used to use back in the day of a powder called EDTA or Ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid, you can even still get it on Amazon for cheap. Most of Evapo-rust is like 85% water..lol They say you can even drink it but I dont recommend it....
EDTA is a chelating agent. That's interesting to know that is what evaporust is. I've personally never seen it. Humans can ingest EDTA and in some forms of heavy metal poisoning, it is given to remove the offending metals. Only problem is it attacks all metals, including those you want to keep, like calcium in your bones and teeth.
@@kleetus92 exactly, my grandfather used to use a mix of it with borax and water. not sure of the ratio but it was mostly water and just a dash of borax...still use it today on my boat parts..
Thanks for all of the terrific video suggestions! Thanks again and best regards, Todd. Evapo-Rust: amzn.to/2Ekc51h
You do a great job!! Maybe if you try this test again attach a wire to both parts of the wrench. It would be interesting to see if it worked better or faster! Keep up the great work!!
Just discovered _seafoamworks_ *"Deep Creep"* which is a thread penetrant sounds better than what I had used for years · I have spent enough time in wheat field with Liquid Wrench like it used to be and oxy torch plus one or two pound ball-peen and cold chisel trying to remove bolts that I now can assist your efforts *strongly advising* do not try to clean all the grease off equipment using soap unless you like to feed your equipment dealer $50,000 dinner money
The soap or whatever you use decomposes the grease and oil and some of it gets inside equipment by capillary action → Rust makes good nutritional iron supplement but if you izza a picky house-mouse use Steen's Blackstrap Molasses but not on the engine •••• If you want *Glitzy* get a show-car only and mount it on lowboy auto hauler trailer and never put fuel in it or try to get it to run;
10 Coats flake with 2 coats clear and a buffer with 3 spinners ( turbo ) on 10:71 Roots from abandoned Marine then Mr Hog Leg by your side to prevent theft;
Banker do not care about epoxy primer, VHT high temp spray paint, Dupli color red high temp tint spray paint, and automotive clear nor that
The results are well worth the brutal prep work for show-only;
Useless on an MF in Kansas
Rust is a very poor conductor. Whenever using electrolysis on tools, always make sure your anode is connected to any moving/isolated parts with a rust barrier.
Very sneaky Tod, as if you didn't notice the rust barrier and connection points, I rarely comment on videos and you suckered me in too!
Muriatic acid works just like that rust remover and is way cheaper.
The sliding part of the wrench wasn't electrically connected well. The rust remained on it. In the tank, this part didn't even bubble.
Thank you!
oh hi diode
we all watch the same content...... dont we ??
This. The rust between the slide part and the handle prevented the completion of the circuit. As it did between the bolts and the nuts.
yeah, I cant imagine not realizing that after the first 24 hours, but 3 days??? Not the brightest tool in the box. (pun intentional)
Happy new year!
The movable jaw wasn't conducting electricity well and needed an electrode of it's own.
Thank you! Happy New Year!
i was wondering if i was the only one that thought that
Was thinking the same thing.
Also the nuts needed electrode contact. Switching position of the electrode helps.
Charles Watts - Completely agree.
I use both processes. For small parts (nuts, bolts, etc.) that can fit in my Horrible Freight ultrasonic cleaner, I use Evapo-Rust. I first clean the part in the ultrasonic cleaner to remove any dirt, grease, etc. that might contaminate or inhibit the Evapo-Rust. I then drain the ultrasonic cleaner and fill it with Evapo-Rust. I use both heat and ultrasonic agitation. It works great for getting into fine threads, crevices, etc. in the small parts. Much better than just letting it passively soak in Evapo-Rust. For larger parts I use electrolysis. Note that it's important to only use plain steel in the electrolysis process--both for the part being derusted as well as the sacrificial part. Stainless steel, galvanized steel, and other plated steels can make a toxic soup. Plain steel only leaves iron oxide behind so it's safe to dump it in your yard or down the drain. I reuse it over and over until it's just nasty looking and then dump it. Even when it's so brown you can't see anything in it, it's still effective for electrolysis. Another great video. Thank you and happy new year.
Lex, This is great advice! Thank you and wishing you and your family a Happy New Year!
@@ProjectFarm Horrible Freight is a good name lol. Just a tip, HF has a lot of great stuff for cheap, and a lot of garbage for cheap. If you want to have a good HF experience, you have to know what to buy cheap and what not to.
@@ProjectFarm Notice the moving side of the wrench isn't nearly as clean as the handle. I suspect that's because you didn't attach wire to that part directly. Its depending on the bond or rust in between to carry current to it.
Testing ultrasonic cleaner solutions would be cool too....
just posted and saw urs ya evprorust got a channel on it also you dont have to remove it just put evprorust in a glass or plastic container or a heavy duty ziplock bag in put in the soapy water then you dont need to fill it up looking at getting a good ultrasonic cleaner
every time you extend the dipping time in electrolysis, you NEED to clean up the sacrificial piece of steel, otherwise the conduction is weakened by the rust accumulation.
This!
Also he needs the wire on the body of the wrench so that part of it is conductive.
That and the wire of the anode shouldn't have been submerged.....
@@Iyzdor Why not submerge wires? I have guesses about wire of the wrench, but why not submerge wire of the steel?
@@suchistheuniverse7858 my guess: because it rusts as well, and because it is so thin, it will rust all the way through very fast. Once that happens, it will stop conducting to the plate.
Yeah I used to just put my sacrificial plate on the ground and it would clean right up
Ideally, you need to connect the wire directly to the adjustable jaw for it to work. It wasn't getting a connection from the battery charger from the beginning.
Great point and thank you!
I was yelling that at the screen but he didn't hear me
Thank you I have been screaming at him all video to connect that.
@@ProjectFarm Could try a wrench again with a jaw connection!
@@MegaKencam 🤣👍🏼
You somehow look like an absolutely terrifying drill Sergeant, but also the friendliest and most wholesome neighbor ever
Thank you very much!
hahahha, yeah you are right, the kind of terrible seargent during the training but in combat the guy that save your life :D
Bob Ross basically...
He definitely looks like either a drill instructor or a former marine.
@@greenplanetre4332 he was in the air force..
I grew up in a race car shop. We used electrolysis all the time. If you want that adjustable wrench to get free from electrolysis, wrap one of your negative wires around the adjuster. The electrical flow is not jumping the rust gap between the wrench and the adjuster.
You could skip the wire brush with better negative wire placement. The brushing got enough of the rust gap out of the way so the current could flow through it. Just put one of the negatives on the actual adjuster too, won't have to brush.
Great point! Thank you
@@ProjectFarm Hey man, thank you for doing all these cool comparrisons. I love all the ones with JB weld the best, I have been using that stuff for almost 20 years, and I'm only 34 years old lol. But I like to see that nothing has dethroned it yet.
Can I suggest that every few hours, as the rust builds up on the sacrificial steel and wire, you give it a quick scrub with a wire brush. This exposes clean steel, which will speed up the electrolysis, and you will not have to wait 72hrs
Thanks for the feedback.
Great point
I don't think the adjuster on the wrench was connected electrically as it showed no appreciable change and I saw no activity unlike the other parts
You are right. Thank you and Happy New Year!
It doesn't need to be, it's part of circuit. Technical he only needs one lead on that wrench.
Think of how many contact points are in those treads. I'm surprised it didnt take longer. Cool video
Project Farm so Why did you not fix it under the test?
@@adammartinez5666 Um sorry if I disappoint you but yes it does there is so much corrosion on that part that it could not conduct electricity same as when a corroded battery terminal will not pass voltage to a starter this is a no brainer! And to clarify since it's clear you thought I was suggesting that the actual part had to be connected that is obviously not what I meant
@@adammartinez5666 I was thinking the same thing. He didn't do anything wrong, other than not wait long enough. Also, he could have sand blasted it periodically. But then again if he had access to a sand blaster he might have realized how silly this video was to begin with. :p
JUST WRAP THE WORM GEAR PIECE IN THE wire and it wont take a million days
100%
Is that what the screwwy bit is called?
huh
This was so frustrating to watch.
At least he asked how he did, I’m glad he’s always looking to improve because the location of the electrodes may not have occurred to him at all when setting up the experiment.
@@RobBank1985 how in the world didn't he realize that? lol
I've been experimenting with electrolytic rust removal for years, in fact that was how I first encountered the late Aussie50's channel. First, having a large surface area on the sacrificial anode speeds things up, so a flat piece of sheet steel or plate works better then pieces of re-bar. Second, face the side of the object you need to strip towards the anode, then flip the object around to do the other side, unless you have more then one anode plate connected at the same time. Third, cleaner DC works better then DC with a lot of AC ripple, which is what a car battery charger puts out, adding a capacitor across the output will help. Forth, if you have an object with multiple parts like the worm gear block on that wrench, add an extra loop of wire to those parts as well.
My next experiment will be to use a higher voltage then 14-15 vdc, which is what the charger puts out with a capacitor across the output, and maybe a stronger mix of electrolyte, washing soda is what I used, about 1/2 per gallon in a plastic garbage can. I have heard of some people using lye, which will strip the pain off of things as well, but then you have to neutralize the lye or it will not hold paint. Evapo-rust has one advantage, it does not harm aluminum, which electrolytic stripping potentiality can, so it's good for things that have parts made out of different metals. I don't know what is in Evapo-rust or Metal Rescue, but I suspect that it is a chelation process similar to using molasses and water, but something more effective and faster.
Thanks for the constructive feedback
Thanks for the constructive feedback
Quality information! Thanks for the education
Terrific intel! Thanks!
If you care to do so, you can look up the patent application filed for Metal Rescue which does reveal that it uses a chelation process. It is an alkali process and, per the patent, requires three ingredients mixed together in proper proportions. The patent application describes a number of various combinations of ingredients that will generate the process, and of course, Armor All who owns the product is applying to patent the combination that they believes works best and is the most efficient to manufacture. The most critical ingredient in the process is Thiourea, an organic compound.
At this point in time there are many ways to deal with rusted items, some of which actually remove the rust and some of which convert the rust to a stable form. Some processes that remove rust use acids, some use alkali. Some processes use abrasives to remove the rust. And there is even laser removal. All of them work, more or less, and each of them are somewhat better suited to different items with varying degrees of rusting.
Thus, you can watch endless videos about rust elimination comparisons and get a lot of information plus see the processes in action. This is very valuable, of course, but there truly is NO universally superior method of dealing with rust that is "best' for all rusted items so its truly useless to compare various methods. As was concluded correctly in this video, each process is well suited for some projects but not as well suited for others. And that's the way it is for any process. So...take your pick!
I use electrolysis frequently and found a couple of things that help. The more anodes you have the better it works and that cleaning the anodes of build up keeps the process efficient. The build up is easily wire wheeled if they are still damp, once they dry out for a few days the build up hardens.
Thank you!
Geoge K. Too bad project farm didn't emphasize this as well as ensuring ALL moving parts were well connected.
Some other noteworthy advantages of electrolysis:
The sodium carbonate is not “used up” and can be used indefinitely as long as lost water is replaced periodically and the electrolyte solution is strained or filtered to remove the sediments that build up.
There is no danger of removal of metal (apart from loose rust that flakes off); no matter how long it runs, no iron will be etched away.
Under some conditions less oxygen is removed, leaving “black rust”, the same substance as gun bluing, which will slow down the formation of “orange (bad) rust, with the help of light oiling.
It is easy to make a temporary “tub” for larger parts. I’ve draped plastic dropcloth over a ring of cinderblocks to create a small “tank” on the back patio. Use heavier duty dropcloth for this.
I have read that the process is cleaner using graphite rod as the sacrificial anode. Since the graphite does not react to the released oxygen there is minimal debris produced. Actually it’s not “sacrificial” at all! I’ve thought of trying the graphite pencils sold at craft stores like Michael’s for a small scale setup.
This is great information. Thank you.
I use graphite welding rods for this. I don't know what the mechanism is, but they do erode over time.
www.mcmaster.com/graphite
I believe alkaline batteries have a carbon rod down the centre that would probably work also.
Jester123ish, I don't know. I looked up the differences between the traditional carbon-zinc batteries I grew up with, and the more recent alkaline batteries. The core electrodes are slightly different; the older ones have a pure carbon core, usually graphite with a binder, while the newer ones use a bronze plated nickel collector, so I would say no. Michaels sells "woodless" pencils, which are solid graphite, and Amazon carries carbon fiber rods used in RC planes, which are also a form of graphite.
David LaPierre, I put on my thinking cap (my good one, not the one from work) and came up with a theory. It's possible that the graphite rods are porous and somewhat soft. I suspect that the bubbles of hydrogen produced from the electrolysis of the water form under the rod's surface, causing the graphite to gradually flake off.
I've tried many different rust removal processes over the years and I've found electrolysis to be the best in most cases. I like it mainly because it doesn't attack the parent metal like acids do, although soaking rusty or old files in vinegar will clean them up and actually help sharpen them in the process. Blunted file teeth are reduced in size, so the effect is like filing each tooth, at a microscopic level on all planes, which results in them becoming sharper. It won't get them as sharp as new, but it certainly will sharpen them some. If you have a well used file that tends to skip or slip instead of cutting, dunk it in vinegar for a day or two in many cases, it will cut again.
Electrolysis is also beneficial in another way; generally there are two kinds of rust on old tools or metals, the red outer layer of rust, which is the compound Fe2O3, or ferric oxide. Red rust is flaky because it takes up more volume than the metal it replaced. On very rusty things, you typically find a harder, darker layer of corrosion, almost a purply-grey in color, underneath the red oxide. This is Fe3O4, which is basically the same as magnetite. It is deceiving as it appears the metal under the red rust is just darkened, but is still corrosion. You can think of the Fe3O4 layer as sort of the intermediate stage of rusting, it hasn't turned to full on red ferric oxide rust yet. Fresh, or good steel and iron will have a silvery gray color. Electrolysis will actually convert the dark Fe3O4 back to iron!
The red rust gets converted to Fe3O4, the same stuff as the dark underlying corrosion, but since it is already loose and flaky it will fall off. The conversion also makes the red rust flakes black or very dark (just like the hard Fe3O4 layer underneath it).
A mistake often made in the process is to use too high a current and voltage in the process. Battery chargers work, but realistically for good quality conversion lower voltage and amperage is needed. It seems counter intuitive, but higher amperage and voltage will erode instead of convert the underlying Fe3O4. This might not be an issue for tools, per se, but if you do any research into the process, those who use it on artifacts will use a much lower voltage and amperage for better quality conversion to preserve the piece as much as possible. A power supply that produces current in the milliamp range is better than using several amps from a battery charger. If you don't have such a power supply, or don't want to buy or make one, you can insert a small lamp, like a brake light bulb in series to reduce the amperage in the tank. The higher the wattage of the lamp, the lower the amperage in the tank.
Also, never use stainless steel for the cathode. Stainless contains chromium, which leeches chromium compounds into the solution during the process. These are a very toxic and probably illegal to dump down the drain, not to mention hazardous to you! Only use plain iron or steel for the cathode and for the wire hanging and/or connecting the pieces! Plain steel and iron on the anode end won't be affected by the process, so wiring to hang and connect the pieces won't get "eaten." Sheet steel makes great cathodes as you can put multiple plates of it in the tank. It's better if you have a cathode surrounding the pieces to be cleaned. Also, as some have noted, make sure you have all your pieces electrically connected. If you see a piece that isn't cleaning, that means it needs a connection.
Thank you for the feedback
What you add to water?
"Electrolysis will actually convert the dark Fe3O4 back to iron!" Read the comments in Ken Sweden's video (a chemist) where he says that is impossible: ua-cam.com/video/8ulL57OgGu0/v-deo.html&lc=UgzZvfU30rtXrT8LVrh4AaABAg.925slTrVO6B926M-jR6oHo and I quote: "Rust is never converted back to iron, it is impossible. For that you need 2000 degrees and a melt furnace."
@@otofoto it's Sodium Carbonate. Specifically not sodium bicarbonate or sodium percarbonate. Here's a link. www.amazon.com/Arm-Hammer-Super-Washing-Soda/dp/B0029XNTEU
So a usb charger would work?
Some advice for anyone wanting to try electrolysis, use a brush to remove some of the rust on the item that you're trying to clean so the wire is in better contact with the metal.
Great tip!
What setting is the battery charger on?
I’ll even go a step farther and either nut and bolt the wire or even tack weld it. Always try to clean the contact area until they’re shiny.
@@jacobluna7609 Thanks for the link! Good stuff.
@@jamiewyke3929 You can adjust the current by putting more or less of the anode in the solution.
Hey Project Farm, just an FYI an adjustable Power Source is FAR better to use than a Battery charger. You can set it to 24V+ and closely monitor the Amperage. The time it takes to use a 14-16v for electrolysis is also MUCH longer than when using 24V. The clear Amp reading is also helpful in getting the right amount of baking soda in the water, or to see if your plates are impeding progress. If the dilution is too low you will have low current (aiming for 2A is optimal), same goes for the plate over time! Cleaning the sacrificial piece is a big big factor in the time it takes for heavier jobs!
Thanks for sharing.
How about a video on no matter how careful you are, the red squirty tube that comes with WD40 gets lost the first time you use it......
Lol. Thank you and Happy New Year!
It is an immutable law of the universe!
I got some silicone spray for my car's electric windows and the tube came off and fell inside the window gap. It's still there. The window goes up and down fine, but I still imagine that little red tube bouncing around all the moving parts.
Not trying to kill the fun, I actually have a used container stuck to the wall next to my garage door just for that purpose, all spray can straw goes there. That container and its content are some of the few permanently placed stuff in my garage.
drop of jb weld save it for next can
Looks like there were oxides keeping the sliding jaw and the shank out of electrical contact for most of the test.
Yes, he didn't connect to the loose portion.
I was thinking the same thing too. Now who wants to see electrolysis IN Evaporust??? I know I do!
evilcanofdrpepper sounds like a cancerous vapor would occur but I’m down to see that!
arent you supposed to surround the object with the sacrificial anode ? it works by line of sight.
+poppaluv That helps, but isn't strictly needed. The path of electrons in a conductive fluid is seldomly a straight line path. Metals are pretty close to perfect carriers of the electric field, so the field strength will be roughly the same along the whole piece of metal that has electrical contact. Roughly the same 0V is present along the whole surface of the wrench, and roughly the same 12v is present along any unoxidized surface on the anode. The difference being length of path between the outward facing sides of the two metals compared to inward facing sides, so more current flows along the inside paths than the longer paths, but some current certainly still flows along all parts of the cathode.
I wish you had weighed the sacrificial steel before and after as well.
Great point! I should have done that.
@@ProjectFarm You could a follow up with different electrolytes as well
I was thinking the same thing
@@ProjectFarm try molasses and water. About a 50:1 ration. Needs a very long time but amazing. Especially on aluminum.
The sacrificial steel looses weight. You also end up with rust at the bottom of the bucket.
In case that you going to do that again, wire all movable parts to the negative, on bigger pieces you can wire it more places, you can also use more than 1 sacrifice metal at once. Also you can clean the sacrifice metal, brushing or sanding it when it gets too much rusted. You can do electrolysis with the sacrifice metal on the negative, when you want to cover something on copper or zinc, so those will be the sacrifice, and they will attach on the main piece, but you need to change the environment using another liquid solution.
I’ve used electrolysis to de-rust an old railroad signal, and here are a few tips.
It is largely a line of sight process, so you either need to rotate the pieces, or use multiple sacrificial anodes. I take a few pieces of rebar, bond them together with copper wires, and set them around my container.
For things with many parts, try to disassemble it as much as possible. Like others mentioned, the adjuster didn’t get de-rusted much because firstly there was little path for the current, but also it has a hard time doing its job because of the lack of line of sight between the inside of the adjuster and the anodes.
Thank you and Happy New Year!
For the electrolysis you have to provide a big surface area, so your sacrificial electrode has to be at least as big as your rusty part.
the wrench also has a bad contact. you can clearly see it at 2:18
Great point. Thank you and Happy New Year!
@@ProjectFarm Happy new year! :)
First time he's done it. I'd love to see him do it on something else using what he learned now! MORE AMPERAGE!
I think if there would have been direct contact to part that adjusted it would have helped eat the rust off. Like you said, there is little to no bubbling occurring so it didn't have good contact
Thanks for info. I tried electrolysis before and didn't get it to work. My electrode was no where near as big as the part.
Im wondering if the wrench if it had the metal wrapped around the movable piece if it would've removed more rust quicker.
I think so, it seemed to have a conductivity problem in that area.
Great point!
Electricity finds the path of least resistance. As the wrench handle lost rust, the electricity would preferentially flow through the handle and less through the movable jaw. I think it would have helped to connect to only the movable jaw at some point.
My first thought is no it wouldn't make a difference. On second thought rust isn't conducive to electrical currents and if the bridge between the two parts is mostly rust on both sides then you might have a point.
Exactly! You need to make sure that all parts of the item are connected to the supply source. Rust is a terrible conductor of electricity, so naturally, the movable jaw really wasn't connected to the source in any significant way.
The darker appearance after electrolysis looks like you “blued” the metal, turning the red rust to a more stable iron oxide often called black rust. Proper and complete bluing of metals will prevent the damaging and corrosive red rust from taking hold. It was more popular before chroming was a thing but it still works pretty well.
Thanks for the feedback.
-
It looks like the sliding jaw of your wrench was not making electrical contact ?
That may have been the issue. Thank you!
I was thinking this too. I noticed when using electrolysis to clean cast iron that the side facing the electrode would clean up faster. GOOD video.
good thought!
for optimal efficiency the sacrificial metal anode should be cleaned with a wire brush at the end of every day. otherwise the rust cannot transfer properly
Great point! Thank you
Or instead of using a sacrificial metal, swap it for a piece of graphite. Graphite will end up (a) easier to clean (b) doesn't need to be cleaned as often to keep the electrolysis process optimal.
It's better to use a passive electrode. Stainless steel is an affordable option, and graphite would likely work but I haven't tried it.
The rust doesn't transfer between pieces, it's just reduced to Fe2+ from Fe3+ by adding electrons. Using a sacrificial electrode slows down the process by adding a bunch of Fe3+ to the water (in my experience).
The two times Ive done it I used a length of rebar with great results. Ive got a piece of stainless bar stock I will have to try next time.
@@ImTheJoker4u you guys may be missing the point of sacrificial metal ... in a hot water heater once the sacrificial rod is gone the water starts to attack the tank, thats what i know so im assuming this sacrificial metal is needed for the same reason
i am pretty knowledgeable on the physics of the electrolysis, so i have some insights:
rust is a poor electrical conductor (it is a poor thermal one as well, but that isn't important here), so scraping off a small section to get better contact with the electrode to the rusted thing you are using will help.
the distance the oxygen molecules have to travel decreases the speed of the process, so moving the sacrificial anode closer will help speed things up.
the better the conductivity of the fluid the faster the process works, so mixing in the carbonate was a good idea.
as travel time is important facing the sides that you want the rust to be removed and where you want it deposited (sacrificial anode) will help speed things along.
try to get all pieces of an object connected to the electrode, other wise the electricity has to travel through the electrolyte solution to the piece to energize the pieces not connected, which slows the process down for those parts.
cleaning the sacrificial anode will help keep the process from slowing down as the anode rusts and inhibits electrical flow.
a steady amount of ionization keeps things flowing, as the voltage drops the ionization will shift, possibly adding rust to the thing you want rust removed from. overall the rust will be removed, but this slows the process greatly and may slightly alter the shape of the object being cleaned.
more voltage isn't always better, the process on the rusted object and anode works at a given amount of voltage. the extra voltage that may help is based on ionizing the fluid, at a certain point the voltage will separate the water (even microscopically), increasing resistance and eating up more amperage while inhibiting oxygen flow slowing the process. so to speed thing up go ahead and increase voltage until you see a decrease or a slowing of the rate of bubbling per volt increase, then back it off to the 'good range' and keep in mind any sort of change (even taking the stuff out to weight it then putting it back) might change that range slightly.
the process works based on flow, so it works best on the surface with lots of fluid around it, so it will work slower in nooks and crannies.
stuff in water likes to separate out, agitating the water every so often can help, though keep in mind the water needs to be ionized to work, and agitation can disrupt localized ionization. so try no to agitate the water between the anode (sacrificial metal) and cathode (thing being cleaned).
Thank you for the information!
Would using a less noble metal help also?
@@markm.3101 it is based on the charge of the metals. there are charts which list in order the galvanic action between metals. having two metals which react strongly will help, but the difference in electrical use to overcome this and accelerate it makes this a minor issue, but the different metals would be a factor.
Ok just trying to compare it to how we protect underground structures. For instance with gas pipelines we use magnesium or zink. We energize carbon anodes with DC power also.
@@markm.3101 it is the same principles as such, except you are trying to do it faster and smoother. the big difference is that it is in water, so the better comparison would be the anodes on boats. again same principles so you will see almost identical setups to some of the pipelines and such. it is very similar to the order of noble metals, though sometimes one ends up being more or less reactive due to some where reason (carbon/graphite is one which flips around with gold/platinum).
with the boats you use zinc (or aluminum in fresh water sometimes), and then you energize the metal parts with DC electricity, though you try to match the electrical potential of the water when it reacts to the steel on your boat, as any higher eats your zinc mainly from the metals in the water (though it will eat some of the steel parts, sending the iron particles to your zinc). of course boats tend to move, and the more they move the less they rust. that is due to the ions causing the rust, and if the boats is moving then the ions have less time to work their magic. if the water is kept from moving you end up with more pock marks due to rust, due to bubbles forming and blocking the salt ions from getting to the iron atoms.
I've had good luck with Evaporust inside an ultrasonic cleaner. I put the Evaporust and the part in a little plastic container that I can then immerse in the water. Seems to work quite well!
Thank you!
Man Everytime I see one of your videos on my homes screen I'm like "Yeah I really would like to know which one is better". Great job on keep us informed.
Awesome! Thank you
@@ProjectFarm Besides the professional analytical approach to comparing various tools/processes,you cover subjects of great interest to a huge audience. Thank you. Too bad critics don't have to pay a fee to lodge their contempt.
Looked like part of the wrench was not in good contact with the electric feed. Should have relocated the wires.
you're right
Just wrap the wire around every piece of metal, the current will go everywhere it can.
Great video.
Or add one wire for moving jaw and screw
You don't need to add any wires, the wire just needs to touch every piece of metal. Wire is just metal, current travels through metal.
He should have fully dismantled the pipe wrench and wired each piece on its own.
My boys have a new favorite UA-cam channel. PROJECT FARM. They want to watch all your videos now. 12 & 8 years old. They like your tests.
Thank you very much!! I've got two boys nearly the same age as yours.
@@ProjectFarm Those are some LUCKY boys! You're the best man!
This along with Cody's lab are among my six year old's favorites. He really makes the tests simple to understand.
Will turpentine kill a septic tank faster than paint thinner?
*Let's Find Out!*
Thanks for sharing! I have used electrolysis for over 20 years. Its a great process, can be dumped down the drain too when done. Also, if you can't find washing soda you can make your own by baking baking soda. Most parts I do are in much smaller containers so you don't need a giant tank.
You are welcome! Thanks for the feedback.
How about electrolysis in evapo-rust?
Thank you for the video idea!
Exactly what I was about to post
I was thinking that too. Non flammable and non poisoning as far as i know. Im not sure what it will do with electricity breaking the chemical bonds though... especially since I don't know what it's made of.
I'd like to see this! I use evaporust in the ultrasonic cleaner and it's awesome!
Mind. Blown.
I use copper wire in the electrolysis tank and it seems to work really well. Maybe try steel vs aluminum vs copper and see which has a better result
Copper should be the best one and then aluminium and steel is last one.
@@nechastivi3187 gold wire should be the best, but i wouldn't use it. steel should be the worst of the three you gave, the rest follow exactly what you said (minus other materials like gold wire or something).
@@jamoecw Yeah, as I said Silver > Gold > Copper > Aluminium > Steel
Copper is the best for this bcs it's relatively cheap and only like 10 % less conductive than silver.
Nechastivi I believe copper is slightly better than gold but doesn’t matter lol
I know copper works great. Haven't tried the others.
It Really shows by looking through these comment sections that you truly care about your audience and does what not many creators do, you stay connected to your viewers even nearly 2 years on. Your Amazing
I appreciate that! Thanks for watching!
I've noticed that you had the electrolysis wire hanger leads only to the non moving part of the wrench. After first inspection, it was easy to tell you could have used another wrap of wire around the moving section AND the thumbscrew for better conduction/effectiveness JFYI
Loved the video. Keep up the good work
Good lord why am I addicted to this channel...
Thank you for the positive comment! Happy New Year!
Me too lol, Happy New Year Gang!
I have never tried either way to remove rust and I was impressed by both. Thanks for the informative video.
You are welcome!
I could be wrong but, I believe you meant to say “brass brush” when you were cleaning off rust instead of “copper”. Copper would make for pretty crappy brush. HA! Another well done & interesting video. Thanks & keep em coming.
You are right! Brass brush. Thank you and Happy New Year!
Well, brass is mostly copper, so he's mostly right.
Canthus13 🤙🏼😜
Curious how much the sacrificial piece weighed before and after.
calculating it will give you about the amount of Gases.
I was thinking the same thing.
It doesn't the rust is transford to it
@@EricMatson-ru7jj that's not what I said.
Ok misuderstood
Here's to a rust-free 2019!
lol. Thank you and Happy New Year!
@@ProjectFarm You too, Todd. Keep up the great work.
I wonder how many times he's going to be told to put an extra wire on the wrench. Read, people. Read 🤦♂️
lol. I'll definitely remember to put an extra wire on the wrench if I do this one again
@Paul J he really should put an extra wire on the wrench!
We're going to keep telling him until he does it ;)
He should have to hear it as many times as I thought it while watching the video.
People dont want to like a comment, they want to be heard
Two in one. Electrolysis in a container filled with Evapo-rust.
Interesting idea!
This is a pretty crazy idea, I'd love to see this.
I use vinegar...works great so far...Happy New Year...captjack
I was going to say the same thing. It might work twice as fast?
The thing is, it isn't just rust that breaks down. The molecules of the chemicals in the water can too. No telling what nasty gases might come out with Evapo-Rust.
Thanks for this. I love Evaporust. The only thing I’ve seen for hobbyists that comes close to it is electrolysis but I’m rarely in a position to set up a large electrified water bath or a safe way to run current thru it or have a sacrificial hunk of metal. Much safer & easier for me to use a non-toxic, single step process with no extra parts. Good to know I can make that choice and get a good result with either.
I tested Evaporust on flash rust against vinegar water on 2 screwdrivers overnight.
The Evaporust was good, rinsed off & given a quick buff with a magic eraser (or steel wool with some Evaporust in it has worked too.)
My vinegared screw driver - the rust looked gone but it decayed the plastic handle. Upon rinsing, it immediately flash rusted back to its original state 😖. So it works, but is only safe for bare metal then Needs immediate attention with rust inhibitors afterward making it ok for thicker rust, or cleaning metal objects, but once the rust is off, the exposed surface is highly susceptible to more rust.
Whereas the Evaporust can be rinsed and stays unrusted longer - even a few days, making it less fraught to get it protected, and my favorite thing. (Next I want to try using it in a rock tumbler on interesting looking metal bits I found while walking my dog.)
You are welcome! Thanks for sharing.
Use a bigger sacrificial piece of steel I take screen or chicken wire fold it a couple times and line the whole tub then take a wooden stick and hang part in the middle with wire use a 15 to 20 amp charger has to be transformer type charger. It would only take 24 hours and all rust would be gone. Works on chromed parts as well removes rust without scratching. Clean screen as bubbles slow to inprove speed. Be careful tho make sure to turn off charger before connecting or disconnecting cause the hydrogen and oxygen gas it creates is highly flamable/explosive !!!
Thank you and Happy New Year!
You are absolutely right, you have to make the sacrificial anode into a "cage" so that you can suspend the cathode (rusty part) in the center, that way the electrolysis attacks the cathode from all directions.
I have put the anode as a flat steel panel in the bottom and a couple layers of fiberglass window screen on top and lay parts on that. Keeping the anode clean is important. Every 4-5 hours I clean the anode with a brush.
And I have a slight suspicion that it might be best to maintain some good ventilation while the electrolysis is going on.
@@grizzlygrizzle Oh, most definately because electrolysis releases hydrogen gas as well as oxygen. And we all know what a hydrogen/oxygen igition can do. Isn't it ironic that H2O is so stable that it puts out fires, but separate them and 'boom!".
I’ve used the electrolysis method before with several sacrificial pieces in the same tank and it worked great after only 24 hours, even on small parts in a small container. Never used Evaporust however it seems to do well but too much time and cost!
Thank you and Happy New Year!
Evaporust is good stuff however it is very expensive, especially here in the UK.
Yep, I've used Evaporust too, and it does work well but is expensive, and if you don't use a covered container it will all...evaporate...I think I'll have to look into an electrolysis setup.
The hell is sacrificial steel
Dang, you have a very positive fan base.👍🏻
Thank you and Happy New Year!
Yeah, we leave the politics out of it, Also religion.
@@grassroot011 lool
Well, we were till you brought it up. ;)
@@grassroot011 you sound like a *insert flame* supporter.
jk lol... trolling over.
I use electrolysis for cleaning old cast iron pans. Chemicals always makes me nervous on food contact surfaces.
Great video!
Thanks for the feedback.
Protecting the metal after the rust removal process is the most important part
Great point! Thank you and Happy New Year!
Barry McNicholl ........I use 3in1 oil on old railroad lanterns after the electrolysis.......usually a few coats and turns out very well.
Coat the cleaned pieces in Evaporust when finished to prevent flash rusting.
Spray paint
Wd-40
Any kind of penetrating oil
Oil it’s self
Those are my go to options and they work well.
Feeling sad for the metal that was sacrificed.
Or the goldfish being kicked out of her home..
...Phoenixspin, after six months, has your sad feeling subsided?...it's time to move on with your life...
@@ruachadam5227 I still have a lingering sense of sadness but thanks for checking on me.
@@Phoenixspin
...just don't turn to alcohol or drugs in an effort to get past this...
I bury the remnants in a shallow grave in the woods.
From my own experience I have found cleaning grade vinegar to be an excellent rust remover. I emphasize "cleaning" grade which is much stronger than food grade. It's a heck of a lot cheaper than Evapo-rust also.
Thank you for the feedback
If you do this same setup in vinegar, with pure roofing zinc, brush with a stainless brush, the part will come out plated and new looking...
Cleaning vinegar is actually weaker than food grade vinegar, as for its acidity, but cleaning vinegar also contains ammonium hydroxide.
Thanks for this video. I used both. First electrolysis but had some slight flash rusting after drying it. So then I soaked in evaporust overnight. This remove residual rust and protected it from flash rusting. Worked great!!
You are welcome! Thanks for sharing.
Well done! A++
Thank you! I really enjoyed your most recent video on the homemade padlock shackle protector! Thank you and Happy New Year!
I agree
@@ProjectFarm plz test drywall anchors
@@ProjectFarm what's the name of that acid you use in some of your videos and what will happen if you mix some with gas and put the mixture into a mower and how long will it run?
cinnamon chuckler
Muriatic Acid ( hydrochloric acid )
Happy New Year!
Thank you and Happy New Year!
you have good taste sir.
Thank you!
@@ProjectFarm amazing work as always sir and happy new year
@@ProjectFarm he was talking too justin lol
From what I've seen, what you want is to remove most of the rust with physical means and use electrolysis to get the super hard to remove layer, and out of all the pockmarks and shit
check the "my mechanics" channel you are exactly right! It makes no sense to remove rust with evapo-rust or electrolysis if you can scrub it off!
I absolutely love this guy. No long ass intro, gets to the point, no bullshit
Thanks!
I've seen a video where a guy used a block of carbon (graphite) as the sacrificial electrode. It doesn't decompose like the steel, and keeps the solution cleaner. Trouble is, such carbon rods (as for electrical discharge machining) are costly. Perhaps a budget trip to Chernobyl might yield a suitable block of graphite? Just kidding! Happy new year, esp. to that long-suffering Toro!
lol. Thank you and Happy New Year!
you can get carbon rods out of 6v lantern batteries you find in the camping/outdoor sections
What about the center of an old 6 volt battery? I saw an old King of Random video (oof) where he used them as electrodes for an arc furnace. They are small, but you get 4 of them so that might still work.
I heard the Toro is getting his own channel.
Could also grind the copper off a carbon arc gouging rod. They're pretty inexpensive. Also the possibility of taking apart old lamp batteries and getting Carbon rods from them.
Electrolysis works. The drawbacks are that it’s very time consuming, creates flammable hydrogen gas, and laborious to set up. However there are no toxic chemicals involved.
All great points! Thank you
Now there is an experiment I would line to see. Does electrolysis produce enough hydrogen to be flammable?
Flammable hydrogen gas? I consider that a bonus, not a drawback.
@@ImTheJoker4u Yes, it does.
You're also producing oxygen too, so it's good for making a bang. Plenty of videos on youtube demonstrating this.
@John Ulicky, in what timespan are you asking? Because over time if hydrogen pools (like in your ceiling) it can produce a helluva bang.
I don't worry so much about hydrogen being flammable. I worry more about it going BANG.
It's blatantly obvious the movable jaw of the wrench had no electrical connection to the battery charger. You should have noticed that and wired it in.
You are right. Thank you and Happy New Year!
lots of good comments. I use both also. Generally if I'm in a hurry and the parts are small, Evapo Rust is fine. But if I'm not in such a hurry or the parts are big, definitely Electrolysis. In Electrolysis, you can do better by using a higher voltage, like 24 V. You are NOT getting rid of rust, you are just changing the "red" rust which is Fe2O3, which is common rust, which also "sticks" pretty well to the steel, to Black rust, Fe3O4 which does is actually a pretty beneficial coating on steel, as it protects it from red rust. Black rust also can be easily wiped or brushed off. Yes, you should clean your sacrificial steel parts every day or two. More wires is good. And you don't need to add more washing soda. it isn't used up. So electrolysis is MUCH cheaper to use.
Thanks for sharing.
Your wire around the wrench is causing a dead spot in between the wraps hurting the electrolysis process, notice the electrolysis pattern coming off the wrench when it's in the tank, you can see the deadspo where no bubbles are coming off it. WOuld be cool to weigh the sacrificial steel and see if the weight removed from the pieces equals the weight added to the sacrificial piece.
You are right! Thank you and Happy New Year!
That would be a good comparison on rust weight added and removed! I think he needs to do a part two!!
Both are excellent from want I’ve seen here and in other videos, my go to rust remover has been old fashion vinegar. Super cheap, I’ve used it on cast iron skillets and vintage hand tools. Still a wire brush will be needed, sometimes you just have to get physical. As always Todd does a excellent job, thorough yet concise. Todd your effort to inform and educate is much appreciated.
Thank you!
But what long lasting effect does the vinegar have on the steel? How much of it gets absorbed into the pores of the wrench or nut in this case?
@@carpediemarts705 vinegar mixed 50/50 with water works just fine with no bad effects, once it is dry its gone. Professional painters, specifically bridge engineers, have used this for decades yo protect and paint structural grade steel. Personally I paint rusted steel with POR-15 after decaying and using the vinegar/water rinse. It opens up the pores in the bare steel and allows for better adhesion of the paint. Steel that can't get to air can't oxidize.
Vinegar is absolutely rubbish for removing rust 😂
@@noodlesoup2281 And your choice for rust removal? Enquiring minds want to know. Please share you knowledge. 😂
So for rust removal if you have a delicate part that needs to be saved you can use molasses and water. Ratios from 4:1 to 10:1 water to molasses work, its slow and it stinks high heaven but if you have large delicate parts that need to be saved I have not found a better cheaper method. Evaporust is faster but costs more. The one thing I noticed, when I put some brake shields in and left them for two weeks, was after I pulled them out there was a layer of black iron oxide Fe3O4 was able to be washed off and the metal was bright and shiny then as the water dried off I could literally see the rust forming in the water spots. So when I did the next round of parts when I pulled them out I washed them in some kerosine to protect them from air and water.
Great tip!
Is this the molasses I can buy at the local grocery store?
@@NOVACOROLA whatever molasses you get make sure it's pure organic molasses.
@@ThePrufessa seems like a waste of organic molasses
@@kiyoponnn I didn't suggest to use molasses. But if you're gonna use it to get rid of rust I'd imagine organic would work better. Maybe not. Shit I could be wrong.
Another great video. I love those "FORD Wrenches" my 2 aren't as rusty as yours started out to be. Great that you restored a antique "FORD Wrench".
Thanks 👍
When evapo rust darkens, it’s pretty much dead. When I remove my part from the evapo rust I spray it with baking soda mixed water. You’ll be surprised how much it helps. In general, if you can’t see the item in the evapo rust, change the fluid
Thanks for sharing.
Hydrogen is evolved at the negative connection and oxygen at the positive one. It's the hydrogen which reacts with the iron oxide, reducing it to iron. Of course, the oxygen at the steel electrode used here creates an accelerated rust bucket!
This bugged me so hard while watching glad i'm not the only one who noticed
YES!!! Other people that noticed!
Good catch!
@Project farm : Your videos are awesome 👏🏻
One suggestion (and I know this video is old) : I use evaporust quite a lot in my ultrasonic cleaner (medical grade one), about 1/2 quart for 5 gallons of water heated at 50C, it is way more effective when the temp is higher so you can play with level of dissolution 👍🏻
Thanks! Thanks for the suggestion.
I also had a rusted adjustable spanner . Only difference being I used fresh white vinegar and submerged it right to the top . It ended up taking 6 days of total submerging to clean off the rust . As you spoke of in the video there are also some other products available . Many months after I did this vinegar de-rusting , a radiator shop man spoke of a product used in automotive cooling system/radiator cleaning that also may be a help for de-rusting tools . This product came in a powder form and needed to be mixed with water and was called "Oxalic Acid" . You may have already herd of it . I've always liked your videos , yours are so good . bye for now .
Thanks! Thanks for sharing.
Keep the sacraficial steel clean and it works faster
Great tip!
@@ProjectFarm ive done this a few times and when using a battery charger or power supply watch the amps when the sacraficial steel is clean vs dirty. The amps are way less when its dirty because of the less connectivity or higher resistance. And vise versa when its fresh and clean. Also make sure to use washing soda not baking soda. I forget what kinda gas it puts off but its bad news bears
@@electromechanicalstuff2602 baking soda and water give off hydrogen, oxygen, and carbon dioxide gas when used as an electrolyte. Not sure which one is bad news for you?
@@ProjectFarm also avoid Stainless steel as an anode as it produces waste that's illegal to put down the drain in the form of chromates and hexavalent chromium. if the solution turns yellow that's a sign that you formed chromates.
@@SaxtonHaile they aren't exactly bad but enough hydrogen and you're playing with fire.... literally
this is great,...i think you would have gained movement on the wrench much quicker if the wire was on the moving section. you could see that the handle section was getting much cleaner than the travel section, the current travel had to pass through the handle section to get to the travel section. I believe this would have made a significant difference in the time it took to clean it up. very good videos and very informative. this will be beneficial to anyone on the outside looking in to using electrolysis when cleaning metal.
Thanks for the constructive feedback.
Great video you got to the point quickly without a lot if any fluff. Thanks for taking your time and adding this content.
You are welcome!
I use electrolysis. I have a metal "c" clamp on the negative lead. I took the pivoting foot off of the end of the screw part of the c clamp and I ground a point on the end of the threaded shaft. This allows good contact with the base metal being cleaned. I screw the clamp tight onto the rusted piece. The pointy tip digs in and makes contact. Try it. It works great. I get great results this way. Nice video. George.
Thanks!
How many amps was the electrolysis drawing for days on end? Did the cost of electricity used amount to much?
When I have done this I used a very similar charger to his and it was showing 5 amp but seemed to taper as the sacrificial metal got coated. I would clean or replace it to aid the process. I never tested the current draw at the 120v side but I believe the electrical usage to be minimal. Far less than charging a battery for a long time.
you can get a ballpark figure with any setup:
using a multimeter (to measure resistance) disconnect the electrical leads from the charger, then connect the multimeter when it is set to measure resistance. once you have that number connect the leads from the charger and use the multimeter to measure voltage when the charger is on. now divide the volts over the ohms (the number you got measuring resistance), and this should be very close to the amps you are drawing.
as the anode rusts the resistance increases, which will decrease the amps used, and slow the process. another thing to know is that by multiplying the amps by the volts will give you the watts, and thus the unit used by the power company to charge you money. the charger will use some electricity in converting the power to DC and lowering it for a car battery, so the numbers you get won't be exact (not to mention that reality never perfectly matches theory).
It looks like the charger used can go up to 10 amps.
So 10A*12v = 120W.
With an 80% efficiency. 120W/.8 = 150W per hour
150W * 96 hours = 14400w or 14.4 kWh
14.4 kWh * 11cents = $1.58 or where I live 14.4kWh * 30cents = $4.32
Its unlikely it was drawing the maximum 10amps so its more likely half of that .79cents
this also dose not include the cost of the baking soda.
Considering evaporust is $7.34 a quart i think it really does depend on the size of the part.
@@jamoecw isnt a little bit easyer to look at the amp meter on the charger?
@@xiro6 assuming the charger has an amp meter, and that it is accurate enough to handle the slop when multiplied out quite a bit for time. only very expensive chargers have accurate ones, and really cheap ones may even lack a meter. but yes if you do have an accurate one then checking the amp draw meter (some even have a different meter between draw and supply) would be the simplest way.
of course knowing in more detail as to why you draw those amps can help refine your setup, so knowing the actual volts and the resistance in the setup can help identify flaws.
You know what's even better? Pulse lasers😂
I'd love to test one of those!!
I seen that! Awesome and EXPENSIVE!
@@ProjectFarm take a look at Styropyro's video, those things are crazy dangerous (but super cool)
Yeah a wire wheel on a grinder
I watched a video about those then went to research them and what you don't see is the massive control unit that you have to lug around too for power.
This guy is terrific!!! It's great how informative he is! Well done.....
Thank you
Absolutely love you videos. FYI, the slider lagged behind the wrench handle because it was relatively electrically isolated from the current since there was no direct electrical connection to that part an rust is a very poor conductor. Keep up your great testing👍👍
Thanks, will do! Thanks for the feedback.
This video combines my two fields of expertise (chemistry and occupational health and safety) perfectly, but I'll try to keep it short due to the importance.
Both processes do practically the same, they remove iron from the chemical compound "rust", or iron oxide-hydrate. While the electro-chemical way uses electric current, the evapo rust uses some kind of chelating agent to overcome the bond energy of the rust. The brown stuff forming on the sacrifice metal is forming due to the alkaline solution (soda). The freed iron ions react directly with the basic compound to form basic iron hydroxide, similar to rust in appearance and composition.
The ohas-specialist in me hopes desperately you took the proper precautions to prevent an explosion due to the forming mixture of hydrogen and oxygen. Your eight grams of iron set free about three liters of hydrogen, resulting in an explosive mixture of around 50 Liters (lower explosive level of 4 %) which is highly dangerous. And this does not account for any hydrogen forming without any iron involved due to overpotential (the battery charger delivers a far higher voltage than needed).
If anyone attempts to repeat the experiment, please make sure you ventilate the area extremely well and keep any sources of ignition out of the direct vicinity of the basin.
Or use the non-explosive evapo rust. It may be more expensive, but losing the hearing ability, a limb or even your life is far worse!
I would highly appreciate, if you added this information to the video.
Great information. The shop is indeed well ventilated to deal with hydrogen gas formation. Thank you and Happy New Year!
Wouldnt a candle close to the electrolisys burn all of the flamable gases before they reach a dangerous amount? My dad always told me to do electrolisys with a candle on a plastic dish floating on the water...
@@acynder1 that candle trick is a good idea
Unfortunately not. Since hydrogen is far lighter than air (that's why airships are/have been filled filled with it), it accumulates at the highest point in any room. But since that's where usually the lamp is mounted, any source of heat (hot enough), sparks or ignition will set off an explosive atmosphere once built up. The problem is, that mixtures, which are too meagre, do not burn, but once the threshold is reached, they explode suddenly.
And the candle trick is also pointless: Since hydrogen is lighter than air, pretty much all of simply passes the flame upwards, completely unaffected. Only the very small amount, that reaches the temperature (more than 420 °C and oxidising conditions) in direct vicinity of the flame will be burned. This would only work, if *all* the gas from the electrolysis is passed through a burner, which is done for combustible organic matter like solvents.
In the worst case, you just give the explosion a source of ignition by lighting the candle, and as soon as the mixture reaches the flame, you can kiss your shop, and in the worst case your life, goodbye.
I’ve been under the impression that during the electrolysis process it is the negative oxygen ions which are drawn to the positive sacrificial anode, where they form rust on it. This is why the sacrificial metal is eaten away by corrosion, which means it needs to be periodically replaced. Any iron ions, having a positive, charge, will stick to the negative cathode. All that happens, besides the electrolysis of the water into oxygen and hydrogen, is that the oxygen is removed from the rust, leaving the plain iron. Also I have read that the sodium carbonate washing soda is not chemically involved in the process, but merely provides an electrically conductive medium which permits current flow between the anode and cathode. Thus the washing soda is not used up and can be reused indefinitely with the occasional addition of water to replace that lost to evaporation and electrolysis. It should also be filtered periodically to remove the corrosion debris that falls from the sacrificial plate(s). I hope this clarifies what is happening during electrolytic derusting.
The wrench was not done properly because the moving part was not connected to the wire and the rust and crude on it prevented the electricity from flowing through it.
I get exactly the same result from vinegar left for similar periods.
I also use vinegar to remove rust. Check items every few hours, as it is an acid and can ruin your project if you don't pay attention to the process.
Thank you and Happy New Year!
If you watch the video carefully, you'll notice that the body of the wrench was really bubbling, but the sliding sleeve, hardly at all. That's because there wasn't a direct connection to the slider. Had that been connected directly, the electrolysis would have worked much better.
It's also worth noting that the gas given off at the anode is oxygen ... that's why it rusts. The gas given off at the cathode is hydrogen which reduces the iron II III oxide (rust) to black iron II oxide. That's how the electrochemistry works.
Interesting video.
Very interesting comparison - Thanks! I've also had good luck with Evaporust, (been very good on small old car parts) but now know what I will do with that old fish tank no one has used since my kids grew up and my old, OLD battery charger.
Would love to see a comparison of small "Dremel style" grinders, corded and battery. Thank you for caring.
! Thanks for the suggestion.
I was about to say the same thing. I think since the wrench has 3 moving parts, looks like the handle part was probably getting most of electrolysis effect, the rust might have made a bad connection between all the moving parts
use Electrolysis in
Evapo-Rust filled tub
*explosions intensifies*
Or vinegar
except of course, Evaporust is absolute crap...Money poured down the drain. It is almost useless.
@@simonlloyd7557 worked great for my gas tank restoration, it's part of a moped frame so i can't really use an alternative lol
@@edwardmulder3777 vinegar is the absolute worst rust remover, of any potential rust remover you could use. it both removes metal AND does a relatively poor job of removing rust.
I wish people would stop recommending it.
Change your sacrificial piece of metal through the process this long because the metal takes on the rust and becomes less and less effective during the electrolysis. Also helps if you place the object near the metal BUT NOT TOUCHING makes for a better process. Great video to watch.
Thanks!
Did you clean the sacrificial metal when you put the wrench back in the tank?
Shut the fuck up. Use your fucking eyes and read the damn comments.
You didn't have a solid connection to the wrench. You assumed the connection would travel to the other piece without resistance.
I wonder if manually removing some of the rust from the sacrificial metal after the first few days would have freed up some surface area for the electrolysis reaction to continue at the same speed, and if that would've improved results for that method.
Thanks for the feedback.
I agree with comments to tie in as many wrench sections is essential. As far as the nuts,, they cannot be freed up as the rust particulates are unable to travel the thread course to escape the confines of the nut itself to traverse the electrolyte solution to the promised land. I also believe the positive collector became consumed and less able to provide prime available surface for collection and current flow. Slow action on the less connected part also proves the viability of the process. Thanks for the video!
damn, I wouldn't have guessed! thanks man :)
Thank you and Happy New Year!
Why didn't you put the wire onto the still rusted part?
Of course we're talking cost efficient rust removal. Have you already seen laser rust removal videos.
Thank you for reminding me i need to use electrolysis.. Using a battery charger? Makes perfect sense! You just made it easy for me. Thank you!! 👍
You're welcome!
Man I love this channel
Thanks!
Heres a lesson for who ever tries electrolysis, I put a gas tank off a garden tiller in my tank. It was pretty rusty on the inside, it had water in the gas for a long time.
When I went back after I thought it had enough time, btw this isn't by no means the first time of doing this, so when I picked it up out of the tank it looked like you had shot it with 01buck shot ,it had eaten holes all through it. So make sure that there's enough metal there if you do this to something thin.
You should have put the wire on the rusted piece on the wrench. It did not remove it because they are 2 separate pieces of steel. Nevertheless Great Job.
Thanks for the feedback!
I had a ford wrench just like this I bought at an estate sale. Dropped it in white vinegar for a few days and the was all clean and worked fine.
Having too much sodium bicarbonate actually can hurt you. If the electrolyte solution is too conductive, the electricity doesn't spread around the electrode as well, and you can get patchy results. Didn't seem to matter here since the parts being cleaned are solid steel and highly conductive, plus you had the two electrodes quite far apart, but worth noting for the future if you ever try electroplating or something.
In other news, on a "favourite things of 2018" video I saw in another channel, someone mentioned Hercules ProPoxy as being ridiculously strong stuff... it's a putty, but supposedly strong even compared to liquids. I'm quite skeptical of that claim personally, but might be worth putting on the list to check out next time you're comparing glues.
Thank you for the feedback! Thank you for the video idea!
Washing soda is sodium carbonate (Na2CO3); bicarbonate is NaHCO3. Borax or TSP would probably work as well or better in this application.
@@tubastuff My mistake, didn't look closely at the box. But, same thing applies no matter what you're using for the electrolyte.
It doesn't matter if it's carbonate or bicarbonate--some of those bubbles coming off the anode are carbon dioxide (some gets dissolved in solution and recombines); the eventual product is sodium hydroxide. You could avoid the intermediate step and use lye instead of washing soda, but with considerably more caution in the solution prep. Sodium carbonate is nearly as effective in this case, as it dissociates quite easily; it's used for cleaning purposes where hot water is involved, as it hydrolyzes quite readily.
tubastuff I thought that carbon dioxide dissolved in water would create carbonic acid, which would tend to neutralize the sodium hydroxide, assuming your premise is valid. Also a half cup of sodium carbonate in 5 gallons of water is an awfully dilute solution.
I'd love to see a video on spray adhesive!
Great suggestion! Thank you.
Evapo rust is a modern day formula of what we used to use back in the day of a powder called EDTA or Ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid, you can even still get it on Amazon for cheap. Most of Evapo-rust is like 85% water..lol They say you can even drink it but I dont recommend it....
Thanks for the information! Happy New Year!
EDTA is a chelating agent. That's interesting to know that is what evaporust is. I've personally never seen it. Humans can ingest EDTA and in some forms of heavy metal poisoning, it is given to remove the offending metals. Only problem is it attacks all metals, including those you want to keep, like calcium in your bones and teeth.
@@kleetus92 exactly, my grandfather used to use a mix of it with borax and water. not sure of the ratio but it was mostly water and just a dash of borax...still use it today on my boat parts..
They used to say round up was so safe you could drink it also. But I do feel evaporust works very well