Never ever ever ever ever heat up hi-tensile bolts. You'll either soften them or make them brittle. Either are bad! Its like heating up a knife. It loses it's temper.
I'm a blacksmith/blade Smith and I use beeswax. You heat the metal until it's hot enough to make the wax smoke. You wipe it on with a rag soaked in melted wax. When you wipe it on the waxed rag doesn't have to be hot, the wax will melt out of the rag onto the iron. It turns your iron black and seals the pores of the iron and coats it. Exactly what he's trying to do.
I saw many comments about metal turning brittle because of the high temps . Finally found a person in the metallurgy industry to give some insights . So my question really is at what point does it ruin the integrity of the metal? I'm rly curious as I actually want to do this with my motorcycle exhaust and stop it from rusting because getting rid of the rust every now and then can be quite annoying .
These comments are technically incorrect and goofy ASFK…let’s just agree to NOT heat our bolts red hot and not expect wear in at least a “possibly” minor aspect. Huh guys? Can we all just get along? And realize this is UA-cam..not a channel ran by an expert Blacksmith or veteran Metallurgist….so best err on the side of caution especially with dealing with precious metals-AKA our rides.
You can also dunk clean iron in copper sulfate. This does a "replacement plating" process that puts about a one atom thick layer of copper on the surface of the iron part. It looks good but needs a clear coat to stay looking good. It is a way to make cheap stuff look like more expensive. It also works on aluminum parts.
also molten potassium nitrate and a cold bolt will create an oxide finish. any oxidizer with a plus 02 should work, the higher the oxidative state the better the coating. the temps involved should not heat parts too much and the wash afterwards will cool the part
Titanium aluminum carbon nitride pvd coating also gives a copper-rose gold finish but is much more resilient to abrasion and protects better against corrosion.
Linseed oil burning is actually a traditional method for rust protection, however you only want to dip the object quite rapidly in the oil before you pull it back up. This way you'll end up with a surface hardening in case you heat it to red-hot, instead of a deep hardening if you let it cool down in the oil. 😊
For sure one of the oldest methods, that's right. But it works different: You have to dip the object into the linseed oil. Take it out and THEN heat it slowly, until it turns black.
Was pretty impressed with crc corrosion shield on a bare metal disc with only 1/2 of it treated. I threw it outside on the side of the shop where it would sit undisturbed. It stayed bare metal for 3-4yrs ,the other side was really nasty.
@@MrTheHillfolk Yea, all their corrosion protection products have at their base cosmoline, a well known waxy corrosion inhibitor. It was primarily used for gun storage protection in the 20th century.
Would be very revealing to see how each sample does over a longer period exposed to water and air. P.S. Linseed oil was used in the Middle Ages (or maybe even before) like for strong and ornamental hinges for sturdy church doors and iron gates etc. - I heard that that coating lasted for countless decades.
I finished a muzzleloader barrel with Casey’s Plum Brown. You heat it with a propane torch. I can’t remember the temperature but it was close to blue. The product is an acid. After it etched the bare metal, apply gun oil or a oil like 3M. That was 40 years ago. All I have ever done was apply gun oil and it has maintained that antique brown patina.
Those things are EVIL. they really take a nice tug to pull one out once it’s buried in you. Wear a shield to protect your neck as well as eyes. Harbor freight are far and above the worst needle tossers so be double careful using their stuff. If someone else is within 10’ I’d recommend them wear safety glasses around HF wheels. Even though they are within their rating they will still fling them . I like Forney as a mid priced alternative to name brands.
Back in the 70's I was using a wire wheel on a bench grinder without eye protection, I got a wire in my eye and had to hold my eye lid open to get to the house and pull it out with tweezers. That was the first and last time I did that stupid trick. Now it's safety glasses AND a shield.
I got a hit in the lake with one of those strains out of a wire wheel. Kind of stung at the time but happened early in the day and I carried on working all day. Week later my leg was so itchy I had a good look at it and a head like a big red hot lump. I squeezed it and I was so shocked and how long the piece of why I came out of my leg.
I've been building muzzleloaders for many years and this is my method for machine screw heads and screw heads. The oil I use is generally 3-in-1. Always works and always looks good.
You might want to try a small toaster oven to heat the parts more evenly. It takes longer to heat up but as the heat is more evenly spread accross / through the part the finish should be more even. Didnt know the brass brush trick, cheers!
I learned a trick a long time ago while taking a collision repair course at an insurance institute approved university. Better and stronger than powder coating, you can use a rattle can of any paint color applicable for metal surfaces and spray one to two coats on the metal surface including bolts. Once it dries completely bake it in an oven or toaster oven at 275° F for 45 minutes to 1 hour. Let the metal object cool down to room temperature and you will have a hard paint coated surface. That is more durable than powder coating. It’s not magic.
@@rchydrozz751 You've done this on nuts and bolts and it actually held up? Cleaning up an old ATV and trying to find a good (but cheap lol) way to protect all the nuts and bolts after cleaning the rust off. After spray painting, drying, baking they really don't get messed up as soon as you put a wrench on them?
In the cast iron cooking world the process of heating up oil so that it burns/smokes (polymerization) and becomes a rust proof coating is called "seasoning". Our ancestors have been doing this with cast iron pots and pans for more than a hundred years. Low smoke point oil like vegetable or corn oil are commonly used.
I know I've commented already quite a few times, but this video brings up memories of things I've tried. One idea I had was to etch some letters or some design into some steel, fill in with bronze using a brazing rod, sand down until the excess bronze is gone, and then torch blue. I've always liked how the colors of bronze and blued steel go together. I considered doing this to make a speedometer face.
Unfortunately, circumstances have caused me to put many of my projects on long-term hiatus (which means they'll probably never happen.) I did do a quick proof of concept to test the idea. I just ground a letter 'R' in a short piece of flat stock, filled in with brazing rod, etc. That was a while back, but I might can find a photo.
Very interesting and simple procedure. I did something similar when I built my flintlock rifle in the 1970s. I heated the barrel in an oven and put a browning solution on it. I believe it was a mild acid. it turned the rifle barrel a wonderful dark brown color like the original rifles. It still looks great to this day and I use it every year for hunting.
that was parkerizing...you can get parkerizing solution pretty easily and inexpensively Remember to condition the almost boiling solution before you dip raw metal (chuck in a hunk of steel wool and let the acids dissolve it)...otherwise it will be grey rather than jet black Rinse with super hot water...the resultant heat will boil the water off..then drench in oil (it makes the surface porous, and the rust protectant is the oil it absorbs)
I've been using tempering colours and oil for rust prevention for years, the key for larger items is even heating, you can try chasing the colour but once you go past the colour your looking for there's no going back, you've got to start over. I made a concoction of old engine oil and molybdenum disulphide grease for dipping but be aware that used engine oil is bad for you so try not to get it on your skin or breath the vapour.
Amateur blacksmith here. I never realized I was rust-proofing things when I was wiping with oils to give it a finish. I just figured it would make it look nicer for a while. Good video. Dammit. Now I have to subscribe to another channel... LOL
Thank you for this great video - I've always wondered which oils and heating methods will result in different finishes. I especially appreciate your comments regarding how this process may result in metallurgical changes to the part that could render it mechanically unfit for its original purpose. Failure of a fastener on a high-speed vehicle is obviously extremely dangerous. Thanks again!
I’m a journeyman tool &die maker and for mild steel we always heated it to a straw color just enough to open the pours but not too hot to burn the motor oil It will be more consistent and won’t smell burnt
Similar to the brass brush. If you remember making those blue crystals back in school, the liquid used for that is Copper Sulphate, it used in some gardening/livestock supplies, but if you put it on steel it forms a copper coating.
You could also try rust bluing. Rust bluing is commonly used to blue firearms, particularly for period correct antique restorations. Clean the part up and get a coating of surface rust on it by applying a solution of salt, vinegar and hydrogen peroxide. Once the surface is rusty, throw it into a pot of boiling water for a few minutes, or put it in a steamer basket over a pot of boiling water. You may need to clean the surface up with a wire brush and repeat the process a couple of times to get a good even coat. Bluing in general is the process of putting an oxide coating on the surface. Iron has a large number of different oxides that it forms, the one we generally want is magnetite - Fe3O4.
Yer wouldnt trust those bolts in my forks or breaks or anywhere on my motorbike should add discaimer do at own risk why not now do a strength test to see how the integrety has been compromised a bolt with some rust on it may be way stronger than this method
@@philperrin8725with rust bluing the temperature doesn't go above 100°C, which isn't hot enough to change the temper. For bolts that are really critical, yeah, maybe not a very good idea. Some bolts are to be considered single use too and should be discarded if you take them off. One caveat; if the pan of boiling water is on a gas burner or other very hot stove the bottom of the pan could be hotter than 100°C, so don't lay the item to be blued directly on the bottom of the pan.
Have you heard of caustic embrittlement? Its when a boilers' ph goes too high, and the magnetite that naturally forms comes off and weakens steam/water lines and the flakes can plug downstream fittings. Instead of acid way, someone might be able to get a pot of water and caustic soda and boil their part until they get magnetite.
@@justcraziii that is a legitimate way of bluing. It's what's called hot bluing or hot caustic bluing. It involves immersing the steel part to be blued in a solution of potassium nitrate, sodium hydroxide, and water heated to the boiling point, 275-310 °F (135-154 °C) depending on the recipe. But rust bluing is the only process safely used to re-blue vintage shotguns. Many double-barreled shotguns are soft soldered (lead) or silver brazed together and many of the parts are attached by that method also. The higher temperatures of the other processes as well as their caustic nature could weaken the soldered joints and make the gun hazardous to use. Source: Wikipedia That said, it's way more dangerous for us amateurs. The boiling caustic bath could easily cause nasty chemical burns, and if you get that stuff in your eyes, bye-bye eyesight.
On C2 and C3 Corvettes, we have what is known as "the bird cage", which is, quite literally, a cage that surrounds the cockpit of the Corvette, and is the A-pillar and upper frame for the windshield. The birdcage is very susceptible to water intrusion when rubber seals are worn. And when this happens, the birdcage can rust out. Your brass coating technique looks like the perfect way to protect those vulnerable sections of the birdcage, including the bolts. Thank you!
Rust guard is phosphoric acid, its converts rust into iron oxide. So if the steel isn't rusty its not going to convert, but it will rust proof fresh steel for 3 months
I slightly modified the color scheme on my MTB and in keeping with this, I painted the hex bolts. Besides the problem you mentioned, the paint somewhat clogged up the heads and made it hard to get the hex key to correctly fit. I look forward to implementing this technique that you have shown us!
Used Linseed oil on boilers for years as a protective coating as the old steam tractors and equipment had all been treated with Linseed oil since the beginning of steam, looks good and protects.
Great Vid! I wished I saw this before I made me some home made brackets for the wife! I had cleaned me brackets up and used Rustoleum for the final coating. I'm retired now but when I did work, I had to make vertical band saw blades for the shop machines. One of the tricks for keeping the blades from breaking, was to temper the blade after welding them together. The tempering process was to heat them at the weld until they turned blue. It does tend to strengthen the area to handle the stress better! Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
Different oils have very different temperatures where they polymerize. For my cast-iron I use equal 3rds by weight of grapeseed oil avocado oil and beeswax. Melted in a pan and then poured into muffin tins. Polymerization temperatures is around 520 degrees Fahrenheit. For even preheating use an oven. You could drop hot bolts and parts directly into the melted mixture.
yes. imo it's a big problem that the polymerizing characteristics aren't being considered. the video focuses on the technique of blueing metal, and this has very little to do with what happens with the coating ... which is the thing that actually prevents corrosion, after you discount the very small protection from the thin oxide film. oils that polymerize probably need to be baked/fired onto the surface rather than relying on the brief residual heat during quenching; and things that don't polymerize (motor oil, paraffin wax, WD40) need to be explicitly treated as a residual layer. it should be noted that WD40 was developed as a corrosion inhibitor and is very tenacious about clinging to a surface despite remaining liquid ... the coating might not benefit from being heated to evaporation, but otoh outgassing the surface with heat might help to pull wd40 into any porosity when it's used as a quench
That’s what I was thinking, whenever he was spraying on the WD-40. I figured it would be a lot more effective to spray the coating on and then heat it; you could then (basically) layer the polymer like when you season cast iron skillets
Playing devil's advocate here, but I've sadly tested pretty much everything you've mentioned here in actual-world conditions. If you left those samples outside for a week, they would all have corrosion. Industrial plating or replacing with stainless hardware is the only way. If you are plating also, get the plater to heat the bolt's to degas after plating, which will help to maintain their structural properties. @dirtygarageguy has more on this and goes really deep into the science. On cold bluing, it does work, but it is also something that constantly needs to be maintained. That along with hot bluing. If done correctly with the correct chemicals such as sodium nitrite and sodium hydroxide it can also inhibit rust for a longer period. Still, as this is common with firearms it consistently needs to be maintained and I would say it would be impractical for the majority of automotive applications.
How do you degas your stuff? Industrial oven? I used to work at a custom wheel manufacturing place, we used to industrial chemical paint strip, then sand blast, then outgas via oven on 400 degrees C, then we would powder coat. Do you degas after coating or before coating or both?
you are aware that these oxide finishes are to hold oil on the surface? that failure to keep the items oiled will result in rust. were not nickle plating here only accelerating the oxidization to form an oil holding finnish....
@@jameshatton4211 Depending on the size of the part, we use a small consumer oven or a converted resi fernace. We also have a giant recycled oil heater for wheels and alike. And again depending on what it is and the metallurgy, just following a basic engineering guide to heating, just before you change it's structure.
@@ivanyurkinov Unfortunately, you could legit test yourself, you'd have more luck just painting oil or a displacement product directly on the item, and it will stay rust-resistant for longer. Oxides, or what you are referring to as "Oxide finishes", are indeed plating or, at minimum Black oxide, which is Magnetite, aka a chemical reaction of sodium hydroxide and some form of nitrate. It would help if you also had a bonding agent to assist with the creation of Black Iron Oxide; only then can you actually impregnate the metal with an oil or wax. Before this, the surface of the metal, no matter what grade. It is not porous enough at the molecular level to accept a catalyst.
last year or couple years ago, I started making rings out of 5/8" hex nuts. I made one out of a stainless steel nut and made a couple more from a broken axle U bolt that I found in traffic on a bike ride. the nuts had unique markings from their service as part of a semi truck's rear suspension. after I machined the threads out and made about a size 6 or size 7 rings out of the hex nuts, I used a propane torch to make the rings gun blue. I didn't use any oil or wax to rust proof them. Every so often, I have to remove the surface rust and the leftover scratches and markings on the rings create a really cool looking patina. They can hurt like hell wearing them like a set of brass knuckles too!
Paint and plating works. Burning soot onto steel doesn't ever work. And please don't ever recommend that people handle oil near a stove or bbq. That's a good way to get 3rd degree burns. And another thing, bluing doesnt ever involve oil.
To brush on the brass, you can clamp the parts in a drill or lathe and continue to heat them up continuously, this works great and also creates a very even coating! greetings from Germany
I generally use a torch and new motor oil. It works pretty well, and it gives a pretty consistent black coating if you get the heat right. Critical fasteners always get replaced with new ones. Just to be safe.
It also works in the oven (gas or electric). Highest setting and just a very thin wipe of oil. I do this with new forged steel pans (olive oil or sunflower oil) and WD 40 for tools.
Seasoning these just like a cast iron skillet (thought I'd use the food based oils for that application). Nice ideas, will use this anytime I'm restoring older stuff
Be aware, that any high tensile bolt will be softened by heating it to blue temperature, you may then shear it if you try to tighten to a specified torque. For the best black, I use old diesel engine oil.
My riding career began in '57 and there's still lots to learn. This is good, and temps 400* and under don't damage temper. And! if you travel close to salt water always rinse off the bike.
Great video. Here in the states a lot of people season their BBQ grills and cast iron skillets with food based vegetable oils (corn oil, olive oils, peanut oil, etc.) using a similar process of coating it before heating. I have found that mineral oil works best. It holds up much longer and their grills will never grow mold inside when not using them. I’d like to see you try mineral oil in a new test and let me know your results.
@@wildoutdoorsandmore thanks for the reply. I googled my question right after asking you and came up with the same answer. It said to use food grade mineral oil. Then I tried to find it for sale locally, which is a little more challenging. It’s known by several names and we don’t commonly use “mineral oil” here in New Zealand. I managed to find a few options though, so I’ll try it out. Thanks
I really like this idea... I just picked up an 81 Yamaha midnight special... all black with gold accents. So I can heat and quench and for darker bolts, and use the brass brush for gold. Thanks for the video
Neat effects. I guess the real test is rust prevention / corrosion restistance. Unless there is a measurable correlation between the colour of the finished article and protection level, then leaving the parts (with control samples) in say, water, salt water, and vinegar (or some mild acid) might be quite a reliable test of the recipes effectiveness.
This is actually a fantastic idea, and I might actually leave all of the parts out in the elements here in Australia and see which one performs the best over time
@CafeRacerGarage yeah, leave the bits outside next to some untreated steel and bolts from the same sheet of steel and bag of bolts as your treated set. Check in 6 monthly.
@@CafeRacerGarage If you mix up some salty water in a spray bottle and mist the parts you'll be able to accelerate the testing process by a huge amount. If you mix in hydrogen peroxide instead of water they will literally rust over night.
The oil step of cold blue and hot blue is not optional. What selenium dioxide (which is what cold blue is) does to the metal is create a thin porous layer which needs to be filled with oil in order to create the protective surface. The problem with bluing metal using heat then quenching it is that you're putting it into a softer temper than what it had before rather than just applying a surface finish. For that, you have to apply the stuff BEFORE heating the metal.
if you have zink-coated steel screws, try dropping them in vinegar. the vinegar will dissolve the zink, and possibly create a black surface on the steel (depends on the underlying steel). hot coat in WD40 will also make an interesting surface finish. (we used the process for small #6 3/8 plastite screws (100s) and usually did a slow dry instead of a hot coat with the WD40, as it was easier to let the screws bake in the sun for a week))
Absolutely - I have been vinegar (acetic acid) dipping to remove fake chrome plating from bolts on my Triumph motorcycle. The vinegar strips off the fake chrome overnight and leaves a wonderful very dark surface. Don't know what some of the bolts are made of, can't pick them up with a magnet.
Thanks for the great tutorial mate. I have used a bath of Vinegar for rusty items like old file and it works really good over night. You can buy double strength at Woolies for a couple of bucks.
Cool! Thanks for sharing this experience. Pretty useful to start making it ourselves, avoiding the test time. I'd love to see in another video, if you please, the oposite order. First coat the parts with any of the oily liquids, and then heat it all up. That way a Carbon layer may still form without overheating the steel piece and losing temper.
in Junior Highschool I learned how to make forged steel coat hooks that could be wall mounted for hanging up items. The finishing process was to wirebrush all the oxide off the steel, heat it to color the steel either gun blue or black a few hundred degrees and drop it into a container of floor wax. remove it from the floor wax and let it dry. it would have a nice glossy finish that lasted a long time and eventually it would develop its own natural patina.
This is the same as the idea of seasoning carbon steel or cast iron pans - it adds a polymer layer. Anything acidic or even a degreaser like many soaps, will remove it. It's not a 20-year fix but can last a good long time in situations. Smoke point of the oil matters, find that for each oil and you will find the optimum temperature. If you want black, try flaxseed or rice bran cooking oils. Grapeseed oil will give it a golden hue. The more coats the darker it gets.
Exactly! Done it so many times on my cookware. Acid is the enemy. Even tomato sauce (acidic) will remove the seasoning. Just have to be mindful of uses for the pans. Acids… use stainless steel pans.
I have found that a phosphate coating is best. That is what most military contracts require on steel parts. You have to use phosphoric acid. When it turns a dull grey it is well protected against corrosion.
Can you make a corrosion test. Show us how long lasting they are. Also that is not the process of bluing. P.S. Heating up bolt to be reused is dangerous, it compromises them.
I typically just rub them with a bit of paste wax, basically a less hardcore version of cosmoline. I have some fairly expensive pruning saws that I paste wax at the end of growing season every year & they've held up for about 6 years now with only minor rust around some of the teeth, which I could get off easily with a rust remover.
For those wondering a way to do this easily and correctly, see below: Heat: 4 parts Beeswax, 2 parts Turpentine, and 1 part Linseed Oil to 350F (do not go near 400F, the Beeswax can FLASH!) Periodically mix, so the contents don't settle-out, and set aside. Heat steel parts to 350F (let them soak in the oven to temp) Insert 350F parts into liquid mixture, for ~5min. Remove part and buff off wax coating. Repeat heating part to 350F and re-soak in liquid mixture for another 5min. Remove part and buff off wax coating. *ALWAYS WEAR PPE, HAVE PROPER VENTILATION, AND READ ALL MANUFACTURER'S LABELS AND WARNINGS BEFORE BEGINING ANY PROCESS*
@@SophiaAphrodite I can tell you've never been involved in fabrication, simple crafts, or even cooking, if you think mixing and heating some things isn't "easy".
The beeswax flashes at 400f (205c), but not before the turpentine. Turpentine flash point is around 95f (35c). If you want to make this mixture homogenous, heat the beeswax to its melting point along with the linseed oil, which is slightly above the turpentine flash point. Blend those together at roughly 130f, remove from heat source and blend in the turpentine, which should be at room temperature. Only a small amount of turpentine will flash as this mixture will rapidly cool with the addition of turpentine. Turpentine is a volatile substance and will gradually evaporate at room temperature, and linseed oil hardens as it reacts with oxygen, so it isnt absolutely necessary to heat anything for this to be an excellent rust-proofer. The prepared mixture and metals simply being at room temperature works excellent, and double boiled linseed oil can be used if you'd like it to dry slightly faster, due to the drying catalysts added. If you're really impatient, you can use a heat gun to bring the temperature up to the flow point of the mixture and carefully maintain it near that temperature for a while, ensuring you are cautious of ignition. In short, don't blow your fucking oven up by putting turpentine in at 350f.
@@nitrousinject"flashpoint" doesn't mean something is going to ignite. And if you're trying to convey the importance of no ignition source, why would you recommend a heat gun?
I thought the point of the exercise was to use an easier method to painting, whereas everything you show is much more involved. I would definitely leave the bolts alone not to mess up their factory heat treatment. A little oil of grease on the bolts would do the job.
Stick them out side for a few days in the rain and see how long they last before they rust. Ive seen lots of people do this but never seen them tested against rust. Im guessing that they will be quite rusty in a few days.
Patina creation is known in the kitchen for a long time. Clean, dry, oil with sunflower oil, put it in the oven for 1h at about 250C. Repeat oiling and heat after cooldown when it's not dark enough.
Hi thanks for that enlightening video. The blacksmith I learned this thing from painted the objects with linseed-oil BEFORE heating them. The result can be heated down to a true black tone. I once did a complex object by putting the oiled object into our kitchen-oven which resulted in a not quite as black but nicely constant color. Actually I am looking for a simple (cheap yet effective and energy-efficient) way to do what you did with an awful lot of tins (to build a solar-air-heating-collector). I still can't see anything better than the oven-way. Lucky me, my wife is willing to get divorced anyway. ;)
I had to drill some hard steel. Too hard to drill, the drill did nothing. So here are the steps: Anneal it (soften it) first. Heat it to cherry red and let it cool 'very slowly' (the slower the better --- as much as an hour sitting in lime is good) Drill or work the metal to your hearts content Reharden it. Heat to bright red and quench in water or oil. The faster the better BUT: it will be hard but brittle and will break/shatter easily Temper it (it will stay hard but not brittle). Heat to 450 degrees (such as in a toaster oven) and let it cool very, very slowly ---- many hours. This will 're-align' the grains in the metal. Treat with oil/bluing for rust prevention. I use cold blue just like in the video --- the metal must be clean and it takes a few coats of bluing. It looks more 'black' than blue. Then wash off in water and treat with oil.
Love this . I did this in the 1970s . Glass bead aluminum then shoot clear over gives a nice affect . Play with brass , bronze, and stainless steel . Back in the day guys would crome everything and it was boring as hell ! 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Although you didn't mention it, you were standing to the side of the plane of the wire wheel when using the wheel/grinder. This IS VERY important. I lost a dear friend who had been doing metal work for over 50 years, when a knife he was polishing was grabbed by the buffing wheel and thrown at him as he was standing in front of the wheel. It sunk 7" into his chest, killing him. Question: what about changing the temper of some items?
Yeah anything that goes round is potential trouble, my mate lost his teeth and jaw to a brass flange he was buffing on a spindle wheel, got hooked on the shaft and the vibration was became so bad it ripped the machine off its mounts and released the flange back into his face. Gnarly workshop that was!
Thanks for the shop survival tips guys. Grade 12 never really taught this since there was a 1/16th inch piece of cheap transparent plastic protesting us on the bench grinder.
Another simple anti-rust treatment is Jenolite. It contains phosphoric acid which neutralizes rust, and there's a plastic in the solution which leaves a black or dark grey coating afterwards. It is a neat easy way of making rusty bolts look tidy, you don't even need to remove them from their location.
@@CafeRacerGarage When I first met Jenolite, it was just one product, a purple jell with phosphoric acid. Now you can also get it as a liquid suitable for using as a bath to dissolve rust, as a red paste for smearing on rusty items. The Rust Remover leaves a matt black plastic coating. The Rust Converter leaves a thicker dark grey coating. I have used it in many ways - the spokes on the back wheel of the Vincent I am restoring had lost their plating and looked naff, so I smeared Rust Converter on them a couple of times, and now they look quite smart in a dark grey. For tidying up a tatty bicycle I prefer to put a smear of Rust Remover on rusty bolt heads etc, it looks dull black.
Tried them all for years. What I found was used motor oil worked best. I used non critical reloading parts mainly dies that aren't resizing dies. I heat up to cherry red and drop in used motor oil. They come put black and consistent. They stay indoors in a slightly humid basement with no rust for years as the untreated ones, even with rust preventive on them rust. You can not do this on critical dimension parts or parts that have hardening specifications like nuts and bolts. Also leaving outside to the elements they will eventually rust.
Interesting. I remember learning about dipping hot metal in oil at school. We made a candle holder out of steel that looked like a satellite antenna. I opted to learn metal work rather than German lol.
Rust bluing is better and you don't have to heat the metal to blue temp. Plus instead of a coating of carbon from the oil, rust bluing coats the metal with magnetite, that coating is harder than steel and non oxygen permeable.
@littlebritain64 ua-cam.com/video/vuP4m6L95K4/v-deo.html Here is a vid that shows the rust bluing process. The rust bluing solution that I used was a mix of table salt and hydrogen peroxide. Small parts are much easier to do as they can be rust blued on the kitchen stove in cooking pots.
For consistent heat, use an oven. It may take longer, but the entire part will be an even temperature. You can also do more parts at once, or larger parts.
the same temperatures he mentions in the video. I know this is for rust proofing without using paint, but when I work on engines at home, for parts that get really hot (exhaust manifold, engine head for example) I will use the oven to cure the high-temp paint as well. Note that you might end up with an odor from the fumes, so a fan and good ventilation is a must. With paint, the generally have some guidance on the can.
I dont know if you have ever nickel plated a part as home but its extremely easy and cheap to do all you need is white vinegar a battery source and a piece of nickel. There are many videos showing how to make the nickel solution and also the nickel plating
I one cut an old horse shoe in half, and welded each half to some flat stock with holes to make an aluminum foil holder. I used my torch to heat each piece to a dull red and dropped into old cooking oil. I got a nice finish from that. In other attempts to blacken metal, I've noticed that of you heat to a bright red, the resulting finish can flake off.
Have you tried JANES nickel plating kit, prep parts clean, boil nickel solution, and add parts, made in Australia by a person who restores motorcycles. I have used it on my motorcycles with good results.
Fun video. Thanks. With bolts, I just remove them, clean them up, lubricate threads then reinsert followed by hand applying some nice combination primer / colour paint over the top of bolt to keep rust at bay (and for asthetics). I don’t like to take chances with bolts even if they’re not HT.
When you drop a red hot object into a liquid the leading edge cools and instantly vaporizes the fluid, forming a barrier of gaseous vapor around the object. While oil is better than water for this, it does the same thing. It's important for it to continuously be moved and enter the fluid uniformly. Lastly, altering the bolt's surface friction in any way from it' original state means the torque value needs to be adjusted. For example, zinc plating a bolt requires 20 - 30% MORE torque value to reach the same average clamp load whereas other coatings might reduce the torque value 10 - 20% (or more). These "black oxide" or oxide layers generally are closer to baseline.
Once I pulled a bristle out of my arm, it was in there over an inch sticking out, did not even know till I bumped it, pulled it out and was shocked how deep it went in.
In "browning" or "cold blueing" guns, I have found that you only heat the metal up enough to draw the moisture out of the metal. If you put the heat on slowly, you will first see the moisture bead up. Continue slowly heating until the water droplets disappear, then apply the acid or blueing.
One time, I intentionally heated a gas tank (yeah, not always the best idea, since even empty tanks can go boom) to form stripes. Looked pretty cool, and I was going to clear coat over it. I ended up painting it black for reasons I don't recall. I might one day try with a new never-filled tank if I ever again have time for a rat bike project.
@@snakezdewiggle6084 I've thought about that - displace the oxygen so there's no boom! Of course, you want to be sure all the sand is washed out afterwards. Washing soda might be something else to displace the oxygen with. And since it's water soluble, it's easier to be sure no specs are left behind. But it's probably easy enough to wash out all the sand.
@@snakezdewiggle6084 I've never heard this before. No sure why river, but not beach sand as both will be tumbled by wind and water, and therefore "rounded" and like ball bearings. Also both will be quite variable in particle size, and therefore more thoroughly fill in voids. Sandblasting sand is manufactured 'sharp" like fractured glass and, while uniform in size, could hold more flammable residual vapor. Thanks for the tip.
I have done this at least 100 times and I always get a jet black super durable finish. The method is to use boil linseed oil. Use a paper towel to put a LIGHT coating on the metal. Then throw it in the gas grill and bake it at 400F until it gets very dark. If you do this in a kitchen oven then you will need to use something that isn’t toxic that has a high smoking temp like raw linseed oil or peanut oil, but it will take longer and the finish isn’t quite as durable. You can use a torch, but you have to be careful to go evenly and also not to go too hot or you will burn off the oil instead of polymerizing it. I have found that the torch is kind of a pain and only use that method when I can’t be bothered with the gas grill. After it’s gotten very dark, take it out and give another wipe down with a LIGHT coating. Emphasis on LIGHT COAT. Then bake it again. It will come out jet black, even, and will resist chipping. If you put on too much oil it will chip easier. Like I said, I do this all the time.
I do this to the brake pins. I use used motor oil. Both street and dirt. On my dirt bike I have seen them look like I just did them after two seasons. Normally they rust fairly quickly in the muddy conditions
the linseed oil has the bonus of being a polymerizing oil.. you can touch it up later with just a light application. I do that to bike frames after evaporust and convertor. tin foil cleaning for temporary shine is a thing too
Great video and thank you for sharing. I have some stainless steel bed strips for my old pickup truck & I don't want them to look like stainless steel because the truck has patina. Your video just solved my problem.
At one point in time I used to rub WD-40 on my shotgun barrel. One day while hunting in a light snowfall, the entire barrel broke out in rust spots despite being given a fresh rubdown with -40 the night before. I haven't used the stuff since as any kind of protectant.
I remember doing that (what we called oil blueing) nearly 50 years ago in school metalwork class. We did it to almost everything we made. Ours came out black, I asked why is it called blueing when it comes out black, teacher said using the old oil from an oil change made it darker.
Try brush electro plating. Only way to do true brass. Used it on my 1895 Marlin. It works beautifully!(Hammer, trigger, magazine cap and follower) It leaves a true, dark brass finish. Rough stays rough, polish first and it will be brassy/shiny!
I have some knives my grandpa made. He saved used used oil to temper blades but he always stirred it with a magnet slowly for a long time, and would not use oil from some cars, like mom's Rambler😅
Heating to red hot then quenching/dunking in oil is a type of case hardening known as carburizing - the outer layer of steel picks up extra carbon, while the inside remains softer.
Long ago I discovered something that was really cool, until The next day when I realized I’d F’d up instead. I had a big pile of galvanized 10mm bolts that were in varying degrees of rusted condition. I discovered the phosphoric acid was great at removing rust. So I thought. The next day (or a couple days) every single bolt was now worse than before, having stripped off the galvanizing. Following that incident I learned the hard way what not to do. So I tried something else, and since the bolts weren’t in a use that changing there temper, I tried what you demonstrated, using a flame and a hot dip into WD40 I found that it was better than paint and had a nice look as well. Later I tried this same thing on some rusty tools, pliers and other tools that were old enough to not worry about failure. Sure enough, a dozen plus years later they still look better than they did before. When I saw your video I was hoping to learn more technical details about this, but at least I know that other oils are possible
If you check the heat treatment diagram, for any change to happen in steel, you need to cross crystallization temperature. For all carbon steel, it is above 770 to 850deg C (depending on the steel), and you are not even approaching it.
You can do this with a higher quality by baking them using the directions to redo a Cast Iron pot. Car battery Electrolysis will give you a much better Brass coating than heating, and it avoids changing the actual properties of the bolt.
Because they come apart is the reason I only use twisted wire wheels that I dip in epoxy resin. The twisted wire is the first safety & the epoxy is the second safety that I incorporate into the wheel. The way I epoxy them is I lay them on their side, run in the epoxy, flip it over and do the same thing. Let them dry while laying flat and when dry with a semi sharp knife cut the drippings off.mount the wheel and finish removing excess epoxy, then turn it on and skim the side of the wheel. If you do it right it will stay balanced.
Never ever ever ever ever heat up hi-tensile bolts. You'll either soften them or make them brittle. Either are bad! Its like heating up a knife. It loses it's temper.
100 % right
Check the temp chart for the metal before heating and use a controlled heat source like an oven.
he mentioned this in the video
Can't have a knife lose it's temper, you never know what it will do when it's angry...
Phosphoric acid for black
I'm a blacksmith/blade Smith and I use beeswax. You heat the metal until it's hot enough to make the wax smoke. You wipe it on with a rag soaked in melted wax. When you wipe it on the waxed rag doesn't have to be hot, the wax will melt out of the rag onto the iron. It turns your iron black and seals the pores of the iron and coats it. Exactly what he's trying to do.
You are dead right friend.
I saw many comments about metal turning brittle because of the high temps . Finally found a person in the metallurgy industry to give some insights . So my question really is at what point does it ruin the integrity of the metal? I'm rly curious as I actually want to do this with my motorcycle exhaust and stop it from rusting because getting rid of the rust every now and then can be quite annoying .
These comments are technically incorrect and goofy ASFK…let’s just agree to NOT heat our bolts red hot and not expect wear in at least a “possibly” minor aspect. Huh guys? Can we all just get along? And realize this is UA-cam..not a channel ran by an expert Blacksmith or veteran Metallurgist….so best err on the side of caution especially with dealing with precious metals-AKA our rides.
@@pandabear631 Thanks for making a point that had already been made in the video.
i have beeswax in a block. guess I could just rub the block on the metal
You can also dunk clean iron in copper sulfate. This does a "replacement plating" process that puts about a one atom thick layer of copper on the surface of the iron part. It looks good but needs a clear coat to stay looking good. It is a way to make cheap stuff look like more expensive. It also works on aluminum parts.
also molten potassium nitrate and a cold bolt will create an oxide finish. any oxidizer with a plus 02 should work, the higher the oxidative state the better the coating. the temps involved should not heat parts too much and the wash afterwards will cool the part
Titanium aluminum carbon nitride pvd coating also gives a copper-rose gold finish but is much more resilient to abrasion and protects better against corrosion.
One atom thick huh
@@TheCarpenterUnion Yes about that thick "as an expression"
@@TheCarpenterUnion 1 1/2 atoms
Linseed oil burning is actually a traditional method for rust protection, however you only want to dip the object quite rapidly in the oil before you pull it back up. This way you'll end up with a surface hardening in case you heat it to red-hot, instead of a deep hardening if you let it cool down in the oil. 😊
For sure one of the oldest methods, that's right.
But it works different: You have to dip the object into the linseed oil. Take it out and THEN heat it slowly, until it turns black.
@@rudi9711 harden then normalize...without it...stresses are formed and the bolt will snap much more easily
I'd like to see these parts put out in the garden for a week or 2, then see how they weathered the elements. Good video :)
Was pretty impressed with crc corrosion shield on a bare metal disc with only 1/2 of it treated.
I threw it outside on the side of the shop where it would sit undisturbed.
It stayed bare metal for 3-4yrs ,the other side was really nasty.
@@MrTheHillfolk Yea, all their corrosion protection products have at their base cosmoline, a well known waxy corrosion inhibitor. It was primarily used for gun storage protection in the 20th century.
this works well, I did it to my bike and the thing lives outside, used a cooking torch and extra virgin olive oil, wife wasn't too happy
Would be very revealing to see how each sample does over a longer period exposed to water and air.
P.S. Linseed oil was used in the Middle Ages (or maybe even before) like for strong and ornamental hinges for sturdy church doors and iron gates etc.
- I heard that that coating lasted for countless decades.
@@em4703 Actually Cosmoline has been used forever protecting just about everything you can dream of for decades of storage.
I finished a muzzleloader barrel with Casey’s Plum Brown. You heat it with a propane torch. I can’t remember the temperature but it was close to blue. The product is an acid. After it etched the bare metal, apply gun oil or a oil like 3M. That was 40 years ago. All I have ever done was apply gun oil and it has maintained that antique brown patina.
WARNING- I had a mate blinded when a strand of wire brush in a bench grinder hit his eye…..always always use eye protection…🙏
Those things are EVIL. they really take a nice tug to pull one out once it’s buried in you. Wear a shield to protect your neck as well as eyes. Harbor freight are far and above the worst needle tossers so be double careful using their stuff. If someone else is within 10’ I’d recommend them wear safety glasses around HF wheels. Even though they are within their rating they will still fling them . I like Forney as a mid priced alternative to name brands.
Yeah they can be nasty, used to only wear safety glasses til I had a strand lodged in my forehead, always use a full face on those wire wheels.
I've also found liberally applying superglue to the base of the wires in wheels, brushes, etc. helps a lot.
Back in the 70's I was using a wire wheel on a bench grinder without eye protection, I got a wire in my eye and had to hold my eye lid open to get to the house and pull it out with tweezers. That was the first and last time I did that stupid trick. Now it's safety glasses AND a shield.
I got a hit in the lake with one of those strains out of a wire wheel. Kind of stung at the time but happened early in the day and I carried on working all day. Week later my leg was so itchy I had a good look at it and a head like a big red hot lump. I squeezed it and I was so shocked and how long the piece of why I came out of my leg.
I've been building muzzleloaders for many years and this is my method for machine screw heads and screw heads. The oil I use is generally 3-in-1. Always works and always looks good.
You might want to try a small toaster oven to heat the parts more evenly. It takes longer to heat up but as the heat is more evenly spread accross / through the part the finish should be more even. Didnt know the brass brush trick, cheers!
I learned a trick a long time ago while taking a collision repair course at an insurance institute approved university. Better and stronger than powder coating, you can use a rattle can of any paint color applicable for metal surfaces and spray one to two coats on the metal surface including bolts. Once it dries completely bake it in an oven or toaster oven at 275° F for 45 minutes to 1 hour. Let the metal object cool down to room temperature and you will have a hard paint coated surface. That is more durable than powder coating. It’s not magic.
This is what I do. Spray on a thin / mist coat and bake dry. Its not thick enough to chip off. It looks like a platting.
Commonly referred to as "wet coating" though the accuracy of that terminology I question under context.
@@rchydrozz751 You've done this on nuts and bolts and it actually held up? Cleaning up an old ATV and trying to find a good (but cheap lol) way to protect all the nuts and bolts after cleaning the rust off. After spray painting, drying, baking they really don't get messed up as soon as you put a wrench on them?
@@jonathangaliano2617 The easiest thing to do is to just replace them with stainless steel hardware, and maybe in some places, titanium.
In the cast iron cooking world the process of heating up oil so that it burns/smokes (polymerization) and becomes a rust proof coating is called "seasoning". Our ancestors have been doing this with cast iron pots and pans for more than a hundred years. Low smoke point oil like vegetable or corn oil are commonly used.
I know I've commented already quite a few times, but this video brings up memories of things I've tried. One idea I had was to etch some letters or some design into some steel, fill in with bronze using a brazing rod, sand down until the excess bronze is gone, and then torch blue. I've always liked how the colors of bronze and blued steel go together. I considered doing this to make a speedometer face.
Please post pic back here when you do the Speedo
@@jameshatton4211Can you post pics on UA-cam? I don't think you can tbh
@@novaenricarter705 you can url link any pictures to any post on UA-cam? I did this yesterday actually
Or a short vid..
Unfortunately, circumstances have caused me to put many of my projects on long-term hiatus (which means they'll probably never happen.) I did do a quick proof of concept to test the idea. I just ground a letter 'R' in a short piece of flat stock, filled in with brazing rod, etc. That was a while back, but I might can find a photo.
Very interesting and simple procedure. I did something similar when I built my flintlock rifle in the 1970s. I heated the barrel in an oven and put a browning solution on it. I believe it was a mild acid. it turned the rifle barrel a wonderful dark brown color like the original rifles. It still looks great to this day and I use it every year for hunting.
that was parkerizing...you can get parkerizing solution pretty easily and inexpensively
Remember to condition the almost boiling solution before you dip raw metal (chuck in a hunk of steel wool and let the acids dissolve it)...otherwise it will be grey rather than jet black
Rinse with super hot water...the resultant heat will boil the water off..then drench in oil (it makes the surface porous, and the rust protectant is the oil it absorbs)
I've been using tempering colours and oil for rust prevention for years, the key for larger items is even heating, you can try chasing the colour but once you go past the colour your looking for there's no going back, you've got to start over.
I made a concoction of old engine oil and molybdenum disulphide grease for dipping but be aware that used engine oil is bad for you so try not to get it on your skin or breath the vapour.
never would have thought you could brass coat like that...very impressed and given me some thoughts for my own build. Cheers Dan
I’m glad you got something from this one mate
You can transfer stainless with a stainless wire wheel on a grinder. Takes a lot of pressure but it leaves a thin coat of stainless.
The surface treatment using the used engine oil was my favourite. I will definitely try that one. Thank you for posting this video!
Amateur blacksmith here. I never realized I was rust-proofing things when I was wiping with oils to give it a finish. I just figured it would make it look nicer for a while. Good video. Dammit. Now I have to subscribe to another channel... LOL
Thank you for this great video - I've always wondered which oils and heating methods will result in different finishes. I especially appreciate your comments regarding how this process may result in metallurgical changes to the part that could render it mechanically unfit for its original purpose. Failure of a fastener on a high-speed vehicle is obviously extremely dangerous. Thanks again!
Yeah, basically quenching it and making it brittle.
I’m a journeyman tool &die maker and for mild steel we always heated it to a straw color just enough to open the pours but not too hot to burn the motor oil It will be more consistent and won’t smell burnt
Similar to the brass brush.
If you remember making those blue crystals back in school, the liquid used for that is Copper Sulphate, it used in some gardening/livestock supplies, but if you put it on steel it forms a copper coating.
It's popular in root killer
I soak all metal parts overnight in 25% ascetic acid vinegar, then clean with acetone. I only heat to 300 degrees max. The results are fabulous!
You could also try rust bluing. Rust bluing is commonly used to blue firearms, particularly for period correct antique restorations. Clean the part up and get a coating of surface rust on it by applying a solution of salt, vinegar and hydrogen peroxide. Once the surface is rusty, throw it into a pot of boiling water for a few minutes, or put it in a steamer basket over a pot of boiling water. You may need to clean the surface up with a wire brush and repeat the process a couple of times to get a good even coat. Bluing in general is the process of putting an oxide coating on the surface. Iron has a large number of different oxides that it forms, the one we generally want is magnetite - Fe3O4.
Or Mark Lee’s hot bluing #1 solution. I use the browning solution for barrels.
Yer wouldnt trust those bolts in my forks or breaks or anywhere on my motorbike should add discaimer do at own risk why not now do a strength test to see how the integrety has been compromised a bolt with some rust on it may be way stronger than this method
@@philperrin8725with rust bluing the temperature doesn't go above 100°C, which isn't hot enough to change the temper.
For bolts that are really critical, yeah, maybe not a very good idea. Some bolts are to be considered single use too and should be discarded if you take them off.
One caveat; if the pan of boiling water is on a gas burner or other very hot stove the bottom of the pan could be hotter than 100°C, so don't lay the item to be blued directly on the bottom of the pan.
Have you heard of caustic embrittlement? Its when a boilers' ph goes too high, and the magnetite that naturally forms comes off and weakens steam/water lines and the flakes can plug downstream fittings.
Instead of acid way, someone might be able to get a pot of water and caustic soda and boil their part until they get magnetite.
@@justcraziii that is a legitimate way of bluing. It's what's called hot bluing or hot caustic bluing. It involves immersing the steel part to be blued in a solution of potassium nitrate, sodium hydroxide, and water heated to the boiling point, 275-310 °F (135-154 °C) depending on the recipe.
But rust bluing is the only process safely used to re-blue vintage shotguns. Many double-barreled shotguns are soft soldered (lead) or silver brazed together and many of the parts are attached by that method also. The higher temperatures of the other processes as well as their caustic nature could weaken the soldered joints and make the gun hazardous to use.
Source: Wikipedia
That said, it's way more dangerous for us amateurs. The boiling caustic bath could easily cause nasty chemical burns, and if you get that stuff in your eyes, bye-bye eyesight.
On C2 and C3 Corvettes, we have what is known as "the bird cage", which is, quite literally, a cage that surrounds the cockpit of the Corvette, and is the A-pillar and upper frame for the windshield. The birdcage is very susceptible to water intrusion when rubber seals are worn. And when this happens, the birdcage can rust out. Your brass coating technique looks like the perfect way to protect those vulnerable sections of the birdcage, including the bolts. Thank you!
Rust guard is phosphoric acid, its converts rust into iron oxide. So if the steel isn't rusty its not going to convert, but it will rust proof fresh steel for 3 months
I slightly modified the color scheme on my MTB and in keeping with this, I painted the hex bolts. Besides the problem you mentioned, the paint somewhat clogged up the heads and made it hard to get the hex key to correctly fit. I look forward to implementing this technique that you have shown us!
I think the linseed oil looked the best, with the more controlled heating you did. Nice.
Used Linseed oil on boilers for years as a protective coating as the old steam tractors and equipment had all been treated with Linseed oil since the beginning of steam, looks good and protects.
Great Vid! I wished I saw this before I made me some home made brackets for the wife! I had cleaned me brackets up and used Rustoleum for the final coating. I'm retired now but when I did work, I had to make vertical band saw blades for the shop machines. One of the tricks for keeping the blades from breaking, was to temper the blade after welding them together. The tempering process was to heat them at the weld until they turned blue. It does tend to strengthen the area to handle the stress better! Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
the title of this should be "How to screw up the heat treatment of your hardware in a few easy steps."
The biggest surprise for me, was how the brass transferred from the brush. Very cool. And you are so right about painting a bolt, never lasts.
Yeah, that was totally my favourite as well 😁
Different oils have very different temperatures where they polymerize. For my cast-iron I use equal 3rds by weight of grapeseed oil avocado oil and beeswax. Melted in a pan and then poured into muffin tins. Polymerization temperatures is around 520 degrees Fahrenheit. For even preheating use an oven. You could drop hot bolts and parts directly into the melted mixture.
yes. imo it's a big problem that the polymerizing characteristics aren't being considered. the video focuses on the technique of blueing metal, and this has very little to do with what happens with the coating ... which is the thing that actually prevents corrosion, after you discount the very small protection from the thin oxide film. oils that polymerize probably need to be baked/fired onto the surface rather than relying on the brief residual heat during quenching; and things that don't polymerize (motor oil, paraffin wax, WD40) need to be explicitly treated as a residual layer. it should be noted that WD40 was developed as a corrosion inhibitor and is very tenacious about clinging to a surface despite remaining liquid ... the coating might not benefit from being heated to evaporation, but otoh outgassing the surface with heat might help to pull wd40 into any porosity when it's used as a quench
That’s what I was thinking, whenever he was spraying on the WD-40. I figured it would be a lot more effective to spray the coating on and then heat it; you could then (basically) layer the polymer like when you season cast iron skillets
Playing devil's advocate here, but I've sadly tested pretty much everything you've mentioned here in actual-world conditions. If you left those samples outside for a week, they would all have corrosion.
Industrial plating or replacing with stainless hardware is the only way. If you are plating also, get the plater to heat the bolt's to degas after plating, which will help to maintain their structural properties. @dirtygarageguy has more on this and goes really deep into the science.
On cold bluing, it does work, but it is also something that constantly needs to be maintained. That along with hot bluing. If done correctly with the correct chemicals such as sodium nitrite and sodium hydroxide it can also inhibit rust for a longer period. Still, as this is common with firearms it consistently needs to be maintained and I would say it would be impractical for the majority of automotive applications.
How do you degas your stuff? Industrial oven?
I used to work at a custom wheel manufacturing place, we used to industrial chemical paint strip, then sand blast, then outgas via oven on 400 degrees C, then we would powder coat. Do you degas after coating or before coating or both?
you are aware that these oxide finishes are to hold oil on the surface? that failure to keep the items oiled will result in rust. were not nickle plating here only accelerating the oxidization to form an oil holding finnish....
@@ivanyurkinov thank you that provides some clarification to a question I never asked lol
@@jameshatton4211 Depending on the size of the part, we use a small consumer oven or a converted resi fernace. We also have a giant recycled oil heater for wheels and alike.
And again depending on what it is and the metallurgy, just following a basic engineering guide to heating, just before you change it's structure.
@@ivanyurkinov Unfortunately, you could legit test yourself, you'd have more luck just painting oil or a displacement product directly on the item, and it will stay rust-resistant for longer. Oxides, or what you are referring to as "Oxide finishes", are indeed plating or, at minimum Black oxide, which is Magnetite, aka a chemical reaction of sodium hydroxide and some form of nitrate.
It would help if you also had a bonding agent to assist with the creation of Black Iron Oxide; only then can you actually impregnate the metal with an oil or wax. Before this, the surface of the metal, no matter what grade. It is not porous enough at the molecular level to accept a catalyst.
last year or couple years ago, I started making rings out of 5/8" hex nuts. I made one out of a stainless steel nut and made a couple more from a broken axle U bolt that I found in traffic on a bike ride. the nuts had unique markings from their service as part of a semi truck's rear suspension. after I machined the threads out and made about a size 6 or size 7 rings out of the hex nuts, I used a propane torch to make the rings gun blue. I didn't use any oil or wax to rust proof them. Every so often, I have to remove the surface rust and the leftover scratches and markings on the rings create a really cool looking patina. They can hurt like hell wearing them like a set of brass knuckles too!
Paint and plating works. Burning soot onto steel doesn't ever work.
And please don't ever recommend that people handle oil near a stove or bbq. That's a good way to get 3rd degree burns.
And another thing, bluing doesnt ever involve oil.
To brush on the brass, you can clamp the parts in a drill or lathe and continue to heat them up continuously, this works great and also creates a very even coating! greetings from Germany
I generally use a torch and new motor oil. It works pretty well, and it gives a pretty consistent black coating if you get the heat right. Critical fasteners always get replaced with new ones. Just to be safe.
I didn’t actually try new motor oil, but that’s a really good idea. I might try that next time
It also works in the oven (gas or electric). Highest setting and just a very thin wipe of oil. I do this with new forged steel pans (olive oil or sunflower oil) and WD 40 for tools.
Seasoning these just like a cast iron skillet (thought I'd use the food based oils for that application). Nice ideas, will use this anytime I'm restoring older stuff
Be aware, that any high tensile bolt will be softened by heating it to blue temperature, you may then shear it if you try to tighten to a specified torque.
For the best black, I use old diesel engine oil.
Thanks mate I did mention this in the video about not doing it to bolts that need to be torqued down
My riding career began in '57 and there's still lots to learn. This is good, and temps 400* and under don't damage temper. And! if you travel close to salt water always rinse off the bike.
Great video. Here in the states a lot of people season their BBQ grills and cast iron skillets with food based vegetable oils (corn oil, olive oils, peanut oil, etc.) using a similar process of coating it before heating. I have found that mineral oil works best. It holds up much longer and their grills will never grow mold inside when not using them. I’d like to see you try mineral oil in a new test and let me know your results.
I use peanut oil.
Is mineral oil food safe?
@@TonisuperflyYes. Mineral is completely safe for seasoning skillets and grills and is available at your local pharmacy.
@@wildoutdoorsandmore thanks for the reply. I googled my question right after asking you and came up with the same answer. It said to use food grade mineral oil. Then I tried to find it for sale locally, which is a little more challenging. It’s known by several names and we don’t commonly use “mineral oil” here in New Zealand. I managed to find a few options though, so I’ll try it out. Thanks
Have you checked Amazon?
I really like this idea... I just picked up an 81 Yamaha midnight special... all black with gold accents. So I can heat and quench and for darker bolts, and use the brass brush for gold. Thanks for the video
Neat effects. I guess the real test is rust prevention / corrosion restistance. Unless there is a measurable correlation between the colour of the finished article and protection level, then leaving the parts (with control samples) in say, water, salt water, and vinegar (or some mild acid) might be quite a reliable test of the recipes effectiveness.
This is actually a fantastic idea, and I might actually leave all of the parts out in the elements here in Australia and see which one performs the best over time
@CafeRacerGarage yeah, leave the bits outside next to some untreated steel and bolts from the same sheet of steel and bag of bolts as your treated set. Check in 6 monthly.
@@timandrew4515 done ✅
@@CafeRacerGarage If you mix up some salty water in a spray bottle and mist the parts you'll be able to accelerate the testing process by a huge amount. If you mix in hydrogen peroxide instead of water they will literally rust over night.
@@CafeRacerGarage Result?
The oil step of cold blue and hot blue is not optional. What selenium dioxide (which is what cold blue is) does to the metal is create a thin porous layer which needs to be filled with oil in order to create the protective surface. The problem with bluing metal using heat then quenching it is that you're putting it into a softer temper than what it had before rather than just applying a surface finish. For that, you have to apply the stuff BEFORE heating the metal.
if you have zink-coated steel screws, try dropping them in vinegar. the vinegar will dissolve the zink, and possibly create a black surface on the steel (depends on the underlying steel). hot coat in WD40 will also make an interesting surface finish. (we used the process for small #6 3/8 plastite screws (100s) and usually did a slow dry instead of a hot coat with the WD40, as it was easier to let the screws bake in the sun for a week))
Absolutely - I have been vinegar (acetic acid) dipping to remove fake chrome plating from bolts on my Triumph motorcycle. The vinegar strips off the fake chrome overnight and leaves a wonderful very dark surface. Don't know what some of the bolts are made of, can't pick them up with a magnet.
100 percent spot on 👍👍👍
@@tywal some could be titanium or stainless steel
Thanks for the great tutorial mate. I have used a bath of Vinegar for rusty items like old file and it works really good over night. You can buy double strength at Woolies for a couple of bucks.
Cool! Thanks for sharing this experience. Pretty useful to start making it ourselves, avoiding the test time.
I'd love to see in another video, if you please, the oposite order. First coat the parts with any of the oily liquids, and then heat it all up. That way a Carbon layer may still form without overheating the steel piece and losing temper.
in Junior Highschool I learned how to make forged steel coat hooks that could be wall mounted for hanging up items. The finishing process was to wirebrush all the oxide off the steel, heat it to color the steel either gun blue or black a few hundred degrees and drop it into a container of floor wax. remove it from the floor wax and let it dry. it would have a nice glossy finish that lasted a long time and eventually it would develop its own natural patina.
This is the same as the idea of seasoning carbon steel or cast iron pans - it adds a polymer layer. Anything acidic or even a degreaser like many soaps, will remove it. It's not a 20-year fix but can last a good long time in situations. Smoke point of the oil matters, find that for each oil and you will find the optimum temperature. If you want black, try flaxseed or rice bran cooking oils. Grapeseed oil will give it a golden hue. The more coats the darker it gets.
So if i´d use olive oil it would get very dark? Olive oil has got a very low smoke point
Exactly! Done it so many times on my cookware. Acid is the enemy. Even tomato sauce (acidic) will remove the seasoning. Just have to be mindful of uses for the pans. Acids… use stainless steel pans.
I have found that a phosphate coating is best. That is what most military contracts require on steel parts. You have to use phosphoric acid. When it turns a dull grey it is well protected against corrosion.
Can you make a corrosion test. Show us how long lasting they are.
Also that is not the process of bluing.
P.S. Heating up bolt to be reused is dangerous, it compromises them.
Yes and also yes correct 👍
I typically just rub them with a bit of paste wax, basically a less hardcore version of cosmoline. I have some fairly expensive pruning saws that I paste wax at the end of growing season every year & they've held up for about 6 years now with only minor rust around some of the teeth, which I could get off easily with a rust remover.
For those wondering a way to do this easily and correctly, see below:
Heat: 4 parts Beeswax, 2 parts Turpentine, and 1 part Linseed Oil to 350F (do not go near 400F, the Beeswax can FLASH!)
Periodically mix, so the contents don't settle-out, and set aside.
Heat steel parts to 350F (let them soak in the oven to temp)
Insert 350F parts into liquid mixture, for ~5min.
Remove part and buff off wax coating.
Repeat heating part to 350F and re-soak in liquid mixture for another 5min.
Remove part and buff off wax coating.
*ALWAYS WEAR PPE, HAVE PROPER VENTILATION, AND READ ALL MANUFACTURER'S LABELS AND WARNINGS BEFORE BEGINING ANY PROCESS*
Celsius rules!
There is nothing easy about this method.
@@SophiaAphrodite I can tell you've never been involved in fabrication, simple crafts, or even cooking, if you think mixing and heating some things isn't "easy".
The beeswax flashes at 400f (205c), but not before the turpentine. Turpentine flash point is around 95f (35c). If you want to make this mixture homogenous, heat the beeswax to its melting point along with the linseed oil, which is slightly above the turpentine flash point. Blend those together at roughly 130f, remove from heat source and blend in the turpentine, which should be at room temperature. Only a small amount of turpentine will flash as this mixture will rapidly cool with the addition of turpentine.
Turpentine is a volatile substance and will gradually evaporate at room temperature, and linseed oil hardens as it reacts with oxygen, so it isnt absolutely necessary to heat anything for this to be an excellent rust-proofer. The prepared mixture and metals simply being at room temperature works excellent, and double boiled linseed oil can be used if you'd like it to dry slightly faster, due to the drying catalysts added. If you're really impatient, you can use a heat gun to bring the temperature up to the flow point of the mixture and carefully maintain it near that temperature for a while, ensuring you are cautious of ignition.
In short, don't blow your fucking oven up by putting turpentine in at 350f.
@@nitrousinject"flashpoint" doesn't mean something is going to ignite. And if you're trying to convey the importance of no ignition source, why would you recommend a heat gun?
Thanks. The brass-ed bolt is awesome.
I thought the point of the exercise was to use an easier method to painting, whereas everything you show is much more involved. I would definitely leave the bolts alone not to mess up their factory heat treatment. A little oil of grease on the bolts would do the job.
Stick them out side for a few days in the rain and see how long they last before they rust. Ive seen lots of people do this but never seen them tested against rust. Im guessing that they will be quite rusty in a few days.
Aren't you de-tempering the bolts?
I learned from an old timer how to do this, he used ATF and maintained the finish with WD40. It makes an exhaust system look like gun blue.
will you follow it up w/ some testing?
Yep
Patina creation is known in the kitchen for a long time. Clean, dry, oil with sunflower oil, put it in the oven for 1h at about 250C. Repeat oiling and heat after cooldown when it's not dark enough.
Hi thanks for that enlightening video.
The blacksmith I learned this thing from painted the objects with linseed-oil BEFORE heating them. The result can be heated down to a true black tone. I once did a complex object by putting the oiled object into our kitchen-oven which resulted in a not quite as black but nicely constant color.
Actually I am looking for a simple (cheap yet effective and energy-efficient) way to do what you did with an awful lot of tins (to build a solar-air-heating-collector). I still can't see anything better than the oven-way. Lucky me, my wife is willing to get divorced anyway. ;)
He's actually annealing the metals to a softer temper thinking he's applying a surface finish.
I spray the exhaust system of my sportsbike.three years and it is.still nice looking no rust just that lovely burnt look
I had to drill some hard steel. Too hard to drill, the drill did nothing. So here are the steps:
Anneal it (soften it) first. Heat it to cherry red and let it cool 'very slowly' (the slower the better --- as much as an hour sitting in lime is good)
Drill or work the metal to your hearts content
Reharden it. Heat to bright red and quench in water or oil. The faster the better
BUT: it will be hard but brittle and will break/shatter easily
Temper it (it will stay hard but not brittle). Heat to 450 degrees (such as in a toaster oven) and let it cool very, very slowly ---- many hours. This will 're-align' the grains in the metal.
Treat with oil/bluing for rust prevention. I use cold blue just like in the video --- the metal must be clean and it takes a few coats of bluing. It looks more 'black' than blue. Then wash off in water and treat with oil.
Love this . I did this in the 1970s . Glass bead aluminum then shoot clear over gives a nice affect . Play with brass , bronze, and stainless steel . Back in the day guys would crome everything and it was boring as hell !
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Yeah I’m definitely on the same page as you chrome is not my thing. Thanks mate
The reason you chromed everything was because it works.
Although you didn't mention it, you were standing to the side of the plane of the wire wheel when using the wheel/grinder. This IS VERY important. I lost a dear friend who had been doing metal work for over 50 years, when a knife he was polishing was grabbed by the buffing wheel and thrown at him as he was standing in front of the wheel. It sunk 7" into his chest, killing him.
Question: what about changing the temper of some items?
Yeah anything that goes round is potential trouble, my mate lost his teeth and jaw to a brass flange he was buffing on a spindle wheel, got hooked on the shaft and the vibration was became so bad it ripped the machine off its mounts and released the flange back into his face.
Gnarly workshop that was!
Thanks for the shop survival tips guys. Grade 12 never really taught this since there was a 1/16th inch piece of cheap transparent plastic protesting us on the bench grinder.
@@rwatson2609 oh we also had plastic aruras to protect us at all times lol
Backyard ballistics is the channel for all things bluing 👍
Another simple anti-rust treatment is Jenolite. It contains phosphoric acid which neutralizes rust, and there's a plastic in the solution which leaves a black or dark grey coating afterwards. It is a neat easy way of making rusty bolts look tidy, you don't even need to remove them from their location.
This is fantastic. I’ll give it a look. Thank you mate
I’m not sure which product you’re referring to? Janolite seems to be a brand let me know bro 😎
@@CafeRacerGarage When I first met Jenolite, it was just one product, a purple jell with phosphoric acid. Now you can also get it as a liquid suitable for using as a bath to dissolve rust, as a red paste for smearing on rusty items. The Rust Remover leaves a matt black plastic coating. The Rust Converter leaves a thicker dark grey coating.
I have used it in many ways - the spokes on the back wheel of the Vincent I am restoring had lost their plating and looked naff, so I smeared Rust Converter on them a couple of times, and now they look quite smart in a dark grey.
For tidying up a tatty bicycle I prefer to put a smear of Rust Remover on rusty bolt heads etc, it looks dull black.
@@pashakdescilly7517 possibly Naval Jelly hear in the states.
Tried them all for years. What I found was used motor oil worked best. I used non critical reloading parts mainly dies that aren't resizing dies. I heat up to cherry red and drop in used motor oil. They come put black and consistent. They stay indoors in a slightly humid basement with no rust for years as the untreated ones, even with rust preventive on them rust. You can not do this on critical dimension parts or parts that have hardening specifications like nuts and bolts. Also leaving outside to the elements they will eventually rust.
Prove how weather and rust proof they are please.
Will do
@@CafeRacerGarage Thanks
@@CafeRacerGarage 6 months later still waiting on the proofs
Interesting. I remember learning about dipping hot metal in oil at school. We made a candle holder out of steel that looked like a satellite antenna. I opted to learn metal work rather than German lol.
Rust bluing is better and you don't have to heat the metal to blue temp. Plus instead of a coating of carbon from the oil, rust bluing coats the metal with magnetite, that coating is harder than steel and non oxygen permeable.
Interesting! Since I am italian I could not catch everything. Would You kindly please explain it in detail?
Thank You!
@littlebritain64 ua-cam.com/video/vuP4m6L95K4/v-deo.html
Here is a vid that shows the rust bluing process.
The rust bluing solution that I used was a mix of table salt and hydrogen peroxide. Small parts are much easier to do as they can be rust blued on the kitchen stove in cooking pots.
@@ColCurtis
thanks a lot!!
Thank's for not dragging things out and wastng viewer's time! This was interesting, and kept to the point!
For consistent heat, use an oven. It may take longer, but the entire part will be an even temperature. You can also do more parts at once, or larger parts.
What temp and how long would you suggest?
the same temperatures he mentions in the video. I know this is for rust proofing without using paint, but when I work on engines at home, for parts that get really hot (exhaust manifold, engine head for example) I will use the oven to cure the high-temp paint as well. Note that you might end up with an odor from the fumes, so a fan and good ventilation is a must. With paint, the generally have some guidance on the can.
I dont know if you have ever nickel plated a part as home but its extremely easy and cheap to do all you need is white vinegar a battery source and a piece of nickel. There are many videos showing how to make the nickel solution and also the nickel plating
I liked the linseed oil and brass the best. Great video, time to try it out! Thanks Dan.
Thank you mate
I one cut an old horse shoe in half, and welded each half to some flat stock with holes to make an aluminum foil holder. I used my torch to heat each piece to a dull red and dropped into old cooking oil. I got a nice finish from that.
In other attempts to blacken metal, I've noticed that of you heat to a bright red, the resulting finish can flake off.
Oh God help us. Delboy's Garage all over again.
THIS DOESN'T WORK.
Lol, funny guy 😂 perhaps it's just an illusion 😊
@@kihestad Sorry, I don't understand your reply?
@@fr.mcgreer8349 neither did I with yours 😁
Have you tried JANES nickel plating kit, prep parts clean, boil nickel solution, and add parts, made in Australia by a person who restores motorcycles.
I have used it on my motorcycles with good results.
I’ve actually never heard of this before. Thank you for the information I’ll check it out.
I see your garage and feel validated, redeemed even! Just like mine: full.
Thanks for the vid. Super interesting and helpful!
You really helped me with your demonstration. I'm cleaning up an old but faithful airbrush compressor. 'Good on ya Oz'.
Fun video. Thanks. With bolts, I just remove them, clean them up, lubricate threads then reinsert followed by hand applying some nice combination primer / colour paint over the top of bolt to keep rust at bay (and for asthetics). I don’t like to take chances with bolts even if they’re not HT.
The brass brush was impressive ! I really like the raw brushed steel and am reluctant to paint it. These methods help. Thanks !
When you drop a red hot object into a liquid the leading edge cools and instantly vaporizes the fluid, forming a barrier of gaseous vapor around the object. While oil is better than water for this, it does the same thing. It's important for it to continuously be moved and enter the fluid uniformly. Lastly, altering the bolt's surface friction in any way from it' original state means the torque value needs to be adjusted. For example, zinc plating a bolt requires 20 - 30% MORE torque value to reach the same average clamp load whereas other coatings might reduce the torque value 10 - 20% (or more). These "black oxide" or oxide layers generally are closer to baseline.
I love the consistent dark finish from the linseed method! I love the videos!
Thank you mate and yes, me too. I think that worked out the best
Once I pulled a bristle out of my arm, it was in there over an inch sticking out, did not even know till I bumped it, pulled it out and was shocked how deep it went in.
In "browning" or "cold blueing" guns, I have found that you only heat the metal up enough to draw the moisture out of the metal. If you put the heat on slowly, you will first see the moisture bead up. Continue slowly heating until the water droplets disappear, then apply the acid or blueing.
One time, I intentionally heated a gas tank (yeah, not always the best idea, since even empty tanks can go boom) to form stripes. Looked pretty cool, and I was going to clear coat over it. I ended up painting it black for reasons I don't recall. I might one day try with a new never-filled tank if I ever again have time for a rat bike project.
Working on a Tank, blast it out with a pressure-washer with detergent, fill with river sand (Not beach sand), it's what the pro's do.
@@snakezdewiggle6084 I've thought about that - displace the oxygen so there's no boom! Of course, you want to be sure all the sand is washed out afterwards. Washing soda might be something else to displace the oxygen with. And since it's water soluble, it's easier to be sure no specs are left behind. But it's probably easy enough to wash out all the sand.
@@snakezdewiggle6084 I've never heard this before. No sure why river, but not beach sand as both will be tumbled by wind and water, and therefore "rounded" and like ball bearings. Also both will be quite variable in particle size, and therefore more thoroughly fill in voids. Sandblasting sand is manufactured 'sharp" like fractured glass and, while uniform in size, could hold more flammable residual vapor. Thanks for the tip.
I have done this at least 100 times and I always get a jet black super durable finish. The method is to use boil linseed oil. Use a paper towel to put a LIGHT coating on the metal. Then throw it in the gas grill and bake it at 400F until it gets very dark. If you do this in a kitchen oven then you will need to use something that isn’t toxic that has a high smoking temp like raw linseed oil or peanut oil, but it will take longer and the finish isn’t quite as durable. You can use a torch, but you have to be careful to go evenly and also not to go too hot or you will burn off the oil instead of polymerizing it. I have found that the torch is kind of a pain and only use that method when I can’t be bothered with the gas grill. After it’s gotten very dark, take it out and give another wipe down with a LIGHT coating. Emphasis on LIGHT COAT. Then bake it again. It will come out jet black, even, and will resist chipping. If you put on too much oil it will chip easier. Like I said, I do this all the time.
I do this to the brake pins. I use used motor oil. Both street and dirt. On my dirt bike I have seen them look like I just did them after two seasons. Normally they rust fairly quickly in the muddy conditions
Blacksmiths have known this method for thousands of years. It works.
the linseed oil has the bonus of being a polymerizing oil.. you can touch it up later with just a light application. I do that to bike frames after evaporust and convertor.
tin foil cleaning for temporary shine is a thing too
Great video and thank you for sharing. I have some stainless steel bed strips for my old pickup truck & I don't want them to look like stainless steel because the truck has patina. Your video just solved my problem.
At one point in time I used to rub WD-40 on my shotgun barrel. One day while hunting in a light snowfall, the entire barrel broke out in rust spots despite being given a fresh rubdown with -40 the night before. I haven't used the stuff since as any kind of protectant.
Would this work if you used an oven to heat the tools up evenly? Then also heat the liquid for an even apply?
I remember doing that (what we called oil blueing) nearly 50 years ago in school metalwork class. We did it to almost everything we made. Ours came out black, I asked why is it called blueing when it comes out black, teacher said using the old oil from an oil change made it darker.
Try brush electro plating. Only way to do true brass. Used it on my 1895 Marlin. It works beautifully!(Hammer, trigger, magazine cap and follower) It leaves a true, dark brass finish. Rough stays rough, polish first and it will be brassy/shiny!
I have some knives my grandpa made. He saved used used oil to temper blades but he always stirred it with a magnet slowly for a long time, and would not use oil from some cars, like mom's Rambler😅
Heating to red hot then quenching/dunking in oil is a type of case hardening known as carburizing - the outer layer of steel picks up extra carbon, while the inside remains softer.
Long ago I discovered something that was really cool, until
The next day when I realized I’d F’d up instead.
I had a big pile of galvanized 10mm bolts that were in varying degrees of rusted condition.
I discovered the phosphoric acid was great at removing rust. So I thought.
The next day (or a couple days) every single bolt was now worse than before, having stripped off the galvanizing.
Following that incident I learned the hard way what not to do.
So I tried something else, and since the bolts weren’t in a use that changing there temper, I tried what you demonstrated, using a flame and a hot dip into WD40 I found that it was better than paint and had a nice look as well.
Later I tried this same thing on some rusty tools, pliers and other tools that were old enough to not worry about failure. Sure enough, a dozen plus years later they still look better than they did before.
When I saw your video I was hoping to learn more technical details about this, but at least I
know that other oils are possible
If you check the heat treatment diagram, for any change to happen in steel, you need to cross crystallization temperature. For all carbon steel, it is above 770 to 850deg C (depending on the steel), and you are not even approaching it.
You can do this with a higher quality by baking them using the directions to redo a Cast Iron pot.
Car battery Electrolysis will give you a much better Brass coating than heating, and it avoids changing the actual properties of the bolt.
Because they come apart is the reason I only use twisted wire wheels that I dip in epoxy resin. The twisted wire is the first safety & the epoxy is the second safety that I incorporate into the wheel. The way I epoxy them is I lay them on their side, run in the epoxy, flip it over and do the same thing. Let them dry while laying flat and when dry with a semi sharp knife cut the drippings off.mount the wheel and finish removing excess epoxy, then turn it on and skim the side of the wheel. If you do it right it will stay balanced.