We Try To REVERSE ENGINEER The Back Stairway. Now We Have To Figure Out How To Fix It. S4E27
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- Опубліковано 5 лют 2025
- Taking a look at the design engineering of the back stairs!
Venmo: @moorelandhouse
www.moorelandhouse.com
#historicpreservation #abandonedplaces #restoration
This is another restoration video of our historic house. We saw this historic house for sale that had wonderful stone masonry and was mostly a brick house. The Romanesque architecture was amazing for this cheap house. With the slate roof and the masonry repair we had to do it was a great renovating house. We have to cope with termites damage and termite repair. The stained glass and fireplace mantels were amazing. If you are looking for abandoned historic homes or abandoned places look no further. We don't have any scary stories but a virtual house tour of the Mooreland House aka Mooreland Mansion aka Harrodsburg Castle aka Ashfeld Manor is a great place to follow.
Our DIY historic preservation videos are not necessarily how to videos. We get a lot of inspiration from some of our favorite channels like Wild Wonderful Off Grid, Pure Living for Life, Onboard Lifestyles, Mike Haduck Masonry and many more. We love our little castle on the hill. - Навчання та стиль
Definitely my favourite UA-cam channel .Two wonderful people and love the cats there beautiful and funny
Thanks for the encouragement!
I like that you do not loose faith and with humour go on, I hope I will live long enough to see it completed 😊
It's what we enjoy doing so we love getting more puzzles to solve. =)
You’ll never be bored by Miss Moreland. Puzzled, flabbergasted, resigned, elated, tired, energized, and more, but not bored.
Very true statement. =)
You two are so calm about taking a step toward and maybe a stumble back. I did a soft renovation of a small 1925 condo with my S/O at the time; we would’ve freaked out if a window frame just popped out after the work you and Frank just did on that staircase. How many renovations do you all have under your belts? 😂 love this project of yours thanks for sharing!
We have done eight remodels. Two of them, including the Mooreland House, were total rebuilds. We are enjoying this project even though sometimes it might seem a little overwhelming. =)
The landings on each floor support the Stairs which are essentially resting on and nailed to the double floor joist (not headers) the outside stringers of the stairs and floor joist mounted to brick walls make sure stairs are solid supported . If there are vertical columns they are in walls , but walls look mostly non structural supported by the floor joist on the floor below . looking at the floor joist that are rotten seems to be main reason floors, walls &stairs are sagging .
We are going to need another video to show how all of this works. You are correct about most of it being the rotten floor joists and beam ends.
You need to call Bob Vila 😂 I have started to watch the early seasons of This Old House and even Bob relied on the experts to fix and repair things.
We have heard that Bob Vila was not the home improvement expert that he made himself out to be. He was more of an actor that could sound like he knew what he was talking about. =)
I know that, and after watching the first few episodes I couldn’t believe the show made it as long as it did. He did get better with age, just like a fine wine.😂
None of the hosts were experts, but the Silva brothers were/are still.
Soving all the riddles that Miss Moreland is throwing at you is half the challenge of making her beautiful again. I expect that you enjoy soving riddles.
You are correct. Solving the riddles makes every day a little more fun.
Be careful! I love watching and love your thinking and analyzing. But please be careful! 🩵
Thank you, we will!
When you were supporting the beams and the plaster started to fall, I was terrified that the wall would collapse and everything would collapse! Fortunately, it's just plaster. Years of leaking water that soaked the wood and everything was bending, maybe this is the cause, or maybe some structural beam is too weak> I have no idea, but you will certainly fix the cause and everything will be fine! Cats, however, have a wonderful life (only those with good guardians!), while you are tired of working hard, they lazily stretch out on their beds😻😻😁😘😘
The cats work plenty hard enough at night when we are trying to sleep. They deserve their rest. =)
@@moorelandhouse Yes, yes, then they turn on the turbo mode, hard and arduous work, I know it from somewhere🥺😁! Best regards to you both and see you soon😘😘🍀🍀
I’d say the issue starts in the basement that stairwell is sagged on every level which tells me the underlying problem is in the basement
That's where we are going to start. We might have to do a little redesign as well and add a post.
And that strange cantilevered design on the ground floor doesn't help at all. As far as I can tell that newel post should continue all the way down to something structural rather than just hanging in mid-air.
Agreed!
You two stay in such a good mood no matter what happens. I totally admire your fortitude.❤
This is our hobby so we enjoy the little puzzles that the Mooreland House lets us solve. =)
First let me commend you for saving this beautiful home and for sharing your journey with us. You are an amazingly couple who are so supportive of each other working together to find solutions to each speed bump. With this staircase hurdle I have a question and not a criticism, but help me understand your process from my vantage point I agree you need to find away to support the stairs on each level but I see a lot of added weight with the plaster and lathe in and around the staircase would it not be helpful to remove lathe and plaster from 3rd floor to basement which will make I
It lighterr to lift up to correct position and would show the framing and see if there is any additional unknown challenges from basement to attic.
When we made this video we were still in the discovery phase. We always try to minimize the impact on the original plaster because it is so hard to replace. By now almost all the lath and plaster is removed. You are very correct, it makes everything easier.
That is daunting!! A little scary to watch, but as always, enjoyable.
It's always interesting to move around lumber that has been comfortable for 130 years.
That is awfully scary hearing all the creaking and popping😮.
I know you will eventually get it figured out.
Yes, we will figure it out eventually. =)
Happy Sunday!
Happy Sunday right back at you!
Zinc is a miracle mineral. A friend took it all the time, swore by it, and was never sick. Ever. Anyways...Frank!! Hardhat! I'm looking forward to seeing that arch behind that plywood, and where that doorway goes. Love these old floor plans.
That is the window/doorway to the flat roof behind the stained glass. They took out the window in the early 1900s and made a doorway with access to the doorway on the Maid's room.
@@moorelandhouseoh cool ok ty!
Wow! How scary was that? I'm here saying to myself, Frank, get your hardhat. Obviously, nothing disastrous happened because there is a video put up but for us viewers it's rather a "hold your breathe" moment. I got to remember the next time that you guys are good at what you do and im just an "armchair" quarterback. Good discovery video!
Sometimes while the video is being edited, we realize that it should have been a hard hat day. =)
Diy’ers and explorers 😂 reminds me of the mysterious staircase of the Loretta Chapel in NM
It has been standing firm (ish) for 130 years. Something has to be holding it up. =)
@@moorelandhouse termite engineers?? 🤣
❤ wonderful staircase & history in NM!
We haven't seen it. We will have to look it up.@@Lili-xq9sn
Thank you so much for the zinc tip. I lost my taste & smell in 2020 and still don't have them back. I'm going to try it!
Can't wait to hear if it works.
Looks like you need to add a header at the top of each stairs supported into the brick wall and on top of adding a new post for each floor. Start at the basement. Good luck and be safe.
Good tip! Thanks!
Hi Frank and Kerry, Great work to stabilize Miss Morland as you work to restore the beautiful old home. I enjoy every video episode, especially the explorations.
One observation regarding the floating service stairway corner. The two attic floor joists that for the edge of attic floor deck near the stairway opening are called a cantilevered beam in terms of the structural design. When the house was built, one or both of those joists should have been extended beyond the brick wall (where the gas pipe is shown in S4-E26 at time hack 9:18) toward middle of the home and then been anchored at the next crossing beam of the attic floor structure.
Think of the longer beam as a teeter-totter that rocks at the brick wall. I can't see the other floor joist structure where the anchored end would be secured due to the temporary floor deck panels covering that area. Others on the channel have commented that the original structural design was Not well thought out regarding this stairway support concept and I agree. A longer beam as described above should be able to solve this problem. Happy discoveries. Jim
Thanks Jim! That's a great idea. We had never thought about it like that.
I will say whoever designed the staircase originally at least didn't hate the domestics as they gave them a proper landing and a reasonable rise over run. They could have just had an ultra steep winder with no landing and saved some of the complication between the first and second floor.
Yes, for a Victorian Era back staircase, it is quite a nice size.
I can understand giving the structure some support, but I would have thought one would level the first floor from the basement and work up. It appears from the slots in the brick wall, the ones that look like joist would go in, the staircase was installed as an after thought. In any case it was not a well thought out design.
The staircase would have been part of the original design because it is the only way to get to the attic. We think there might have been a design change on the first floor that eliminated a post. The design after that might be a little suspect. =)
Thrilled to learn about liquid zinc for some mysterious ailment that fell upon me April 2023. I'm able to taste, but it's terribly distorted. Most things taste really bad. I've been on 30 MG zinc capsules to help with immunity for three yrs. I'll get some of the liquid asap.
Thanks Frank! Great show and tell on the staircase sag.
Let us know if it works. It would be nice to have a little more anecdotal evidence.
I'd bet if the laser line were checked in a week or two, the floor would have come up some. It took decades to slowly sag, that wood might
take some time to react to the jacks. Seems likely that a pier in the basement floor will need added, then supported at each floor/landing
as others have commented.
That's a really good point. We do know that the unintentionally
cantilevered joists were sagged quite a bit. We do plan on starting from the bottom and doing what is necessary to make it whole again.
Great investigation of the stairway issues. I am going to have to watch this one twice to really understand the solution. Your both doing amazing, Stay strong. Enjoyed.
Thanks! We will figure it out eventually.
Yikes! There was a lot of crunching and creaking going on in that stairwell. Hopefully you'll continue to unravel that mystery and make that stairway a lot sturdier. You've got a good start!
We will certainly make the stairwell sturdy again. It will be level too!
Just to add . . . I'm really enjoying watching this renovation! ♥
Thanks!
you really need a few 5 ton Screw house jacks ... they are much easier to use to lift something to an exact height.... where as a pump jack makes it near impossible to jack something to an exact height .
We like the 20 ton jacks better. It's easy enough that Kerry can do it without much effort. Screw jacks are the only safe way to leave it jacked up though. We always have to use blocking to make sure it can't settle.
Doing the permanent repairs will be a major project, but at least now it won't keep sagging. Keeping those back stairs will be a convenience in the future.
The back stairs are the only access to the attic. We will have to fix it soon. =)
It's almost as if the entire back staircase was a last minute addition during construction. It was defiantly under engineered for the weight that it is supposed to be holding up. Water intrusion, rot and termites didn't help matters either.
I really hope you are able to correct all of the damage time has done.
The stairway would have had to be in the original design because it is the only way to access the attic. We think they were trying to be a little too fancy with the design instead of just making it simple.
Watching your channel all the way from Manila, PH since Day 1.. You guys are doing great and has so much patience and determination in this project.. Keep it up! Cheers!
Thank you so much! We certainly have a UA-cam family that is located all over the world.
Love the assist you get from your cats! 🥰 My sweet girl, Ashnee was killed by neighbor's dog. Extremely upsetting and dog was running loose, which is not allowed here, where I live. I miss her so much . . . 😢
Sorry to hear that! Since Kitten is a free roamer we always wonder if she will be there to greet us. We have captured pictures of at least one coyote wandering through the property. We do have plenty of places that she can safely hide from larger animals though.
@@moorelandhouse Ashnee adopted me, when she was just a few months old and, for the most part, stayed in her yard. She was 12 yrs. old when she passed. Usually she could get away from any dog, but I think she may have had some health issues and didn't hear or see the dog, until it was to late? Just take good care of "Kitten" as she seems to be such a sweet little gal! ♥
Kitten is probably the most friendly cat we have ever seen.
So that’s a boarded up window where you took down the casing? As for your cats, I would say yes, they’re very comfortable.😊❤
That boarded up window is where they used to have a door that led to the pathway across to the Maid's Room door. Originally it was a window that would have looked out at the stained glass window from the outside.
Yet another great video. Her joints sounds similar to mine in the morning 😊. I am so curious to watch how this section goes I know Frank will figure it all out.
She sure was popping! We will solve the puzzle eventually. =)
I keep Zycam in stock and the minute I feel off spray my nose with it. Best health product ever bought
Isn't it amazing how something so simple can be so healthy for us.
I too am a fan of zycam.
About the zinc, I lost my sense of smell as a teenager, and a nurse told me it was probably a zinc deficiency. When I started taking zinc supplements, my sense of smell came back. So you may be on to something there with zinc helping with the loss of smell from COVID.
Isn't it amazing how easy it is to fix some things. More doctors should watch UA-cam. =)
awesome video the stair will be better when its all fixed up
Yes it will!
You really wonder how the entire stairwell holds itself up. Either the trusses would have to continue into the wall or everything would have to be carried, up from the basement, but neither seems to be the case everywhere you would expect it 😱
Also measuring from the floor in the attic does not seem the most logical to me because it could also have gone up. From the green laser line downwards it is probably more precise to see whether you have gone up.
Exactly! The outside stringers aren't even attached to the brick wall. They are just skirt boards.
We had the laser level set up on a completely different area of the attic that is on the other side of a brick wall that goes down to the foundation. It didn't move. =)
Good morning. Is that the only access to the attic? I ask because I see the header pockets in the outside brick wall. My guess is they removed those beams that would have supported that corner to add that access.
It is the only access to the attic. We have figured out that they had extra pockets built into the brick wall so they could use temporary platforms as they were building the Mooreland House.
a lot of sag is shown in your video.. took me a while to figure out where's wood is where... took out graph paper and drew out what is built (from your video). I am aware this stair is tacked on (addition), but stairs must have been modified several times after first addition. read on...
I noted that between 2nd floor and 3rd floor; newel posts (both floor and "stalactite") on the corner makes half of a post. Stalactite newel must be contractor's stupidity version of a 'corbel'. the other half post is inside the wall; well several pieces of lumber-wood must been nailed together because when you jacked up 2nd floor support and I noticed those two newels wood did separate.
I aware that you did put temporary supports on 1st floor. I observed there is no post between 1st floor to 2nd floor. and Mooreland must be supporting stairs on one or two skinny baluster(s) at that corner, then on the stringer underneath the baluster... there might have been another stupidly installed newel "corbel" there.
In overall, that video of yours is more revealing Mooreland had bad contractor(s) touching innards without understanding the structural work... If I was to redo and fix the stairs (and replacing wood); picking one of 3 ways... install "structural" carved wood log-post that is decorative (matching color and wood feel of stairs) ensuring core is going all way through.., steel post similar to Lally post (is called pole??) with "decorative crown" support plates for each "landing"; all painted black to simulate blacksmith iron look, or replace those corner newel posts and stalactites with "corner" covered square wall with internal 6x6 (0r properly stacked and staggered 2x6).
Hint: do not forget that window, supporting the 2.5 landing needs better lintel, perhaps steel embedded in the bricks?
The stairwell is the original. The framing structure is all done with square nails which they quit using just after the Mooreland House was built. It is the only access to the attic so there would have been no other way to put it in later. Thanks for you detailed write up. We will be digging further into the structure over the next few videos. Please keep the advice coming.
@@moorelandhouse well modern main contractor's business to build "sub-stairs" (stringers, posts, frames) work and subcontract the other materials work, I call clads (risers, treads, balusters, newels, finials, etc). This might become false due to evidence of 'oopsie' where stairs meets the 2nd floor door-window.
my definition of tacked on addition .. Mooreland probably had hired another (I want to call him Mr. shoddy) contractor to "update" the back stairs after stairs-clad was built.
We will do a deeper dive into how the stairs are constructed.
I think you have a bunch of partial failures that are all contributing to the drop. All the joists have rotted and dropped some, the brick wall has lost some in places thinking I saw a brick arch the looked pretty bad in this some place. I think this may be one that to return to origional you are going to have to take it apart replace the rotten joists and put it back together from the bottom up. As others have said the problem starts at the basement and gets bigger as you go up. I think this may be less of a design issued more of a rot issue compounding as you go up from the basement because you are off some on the first floor more on the second and more in the attic.
That will be our first strategy. We plan on replacing all of the rotten beams and joists of course. We are strategizing our plan of attack. =)
I don't have a opinion to throw at you on how to remedy the structure issue on the stairs. Wouldn't you like to go back in time and ask the guy that designed it what the heck he was thinking? Then ask him for a sky hook to come up with a solution to support three floors of weight!
From what I've seen of you two- you'll figure something out and make it right. For sure you won't be trying to restore the original design! Keep after it and good luck.
Graham-Orlando
In a perfect world, the original design might have worked. In a world full of neglect, the original design kept it from falling down but it didn't make it through the years without sagging. We will have to add something else to make it through whatever neglect the next century has to offer.
You guys need to rip everything off the walls in that entire area all the plaster and lattice boards so you can see what is holding what up.
We were trying to be as non-destructive as possible. We do wind up taking everything down.
Is that sidewalk down the front original to the house
We think so but are not certain.
I take zinc long time now, where did you find a good quality oral?
Also zinc is needed for Vit D3, to get the D into the cell...which if most back when had known levels and levels at normal or above normal, might not have got into urgent trouble which put them in a cytokine storm...one major factor, those low Vit D..
We just got the medium priced stuff off of Amazon. Not sure if it was good quality or not but it worked. =)
Where is the beam, the post, the footer? Or is some odd hanging staircase like in my parents old home?
Someone called it a flying staircase. It probably would have worked well if it wasn't for all the rot and water damage.
Oh how frustrating this must have been. I still enjoyed watching, but do I ever feel for you.
Just more puzzles to solve! Who doesn't like puzzles? =)
The flu and colds will, most always make you lose the ability to smell. Zinc is in most medicines for colds and flu and works very well, lessening the length of the illness and symptoms.
It's amazing what a little zinc will do!
@@moorelandhouse yes it is!!!
brick wall is most likely sitting on the floor all the brick walls weight is causing it to drop
Actually the brick wall holds everything up. All of the inside floors are held up by the brick walls that come up from the foundation.
Suggesting that you use a hard hat when jacking. With those high ceilings even a chuck of plaster could hurt.
We wear hard hats when we have the plaster chunks hanging over us. In this case the only thing above the area Frank was jacking from was the wooden structure. Thanks for the reminder though. =)
I will swear by Zinc as well ... I take it with the Halls Defense... It has Zinc in it... anytime I think I might be getting the slightest weirdness in my throat or nose I start taking those 2 or 3 or more times a day... and I work in healthcare around people with the dreaded virus all the time... *(though I ALWAYS wear my face shield and N95 anytime I am with patients ... don't care what they are in for ALWAYS wear my N95... but that's more because of my Son... he has Autism... and it makes him extremely stressed and anxious thinking I might get that dreaded virus... so I have assured him that I will take every measure of procaution.. anyway)... I made it thru 3 years without getting so much as a sniffle since the whole thing began... though I did about a month ago get something that wasn't the virus but was some other virus... that made me quite sick ... retained my sense of smell though... probably due to me doing the Halls defense...
It's so much easier to stay healthy then trying to get your health back. The ole "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".
@@moorelandhouse So very true. I get asked at work all the time why I am all masked up... and I tell them... for my own safety. Especially being that I'm high risk anyway given I'm older... and diabetic. But mostly for my son's peace of mind. I try hard to stay healthy as I can. I can't imagine doing all the hard work you two do every day. The place is looking great and I enjoy seeing all the love and care you both put into restoring such a lovely old home.
We mostly only work when we enjoy it. =)@@malagastehlaate230
I seriously believe you need to consult with an architectural engineer who can explain this structure to you. You can't jack on floor that is not supported, Transfer of weight has to start in the basement and the structure that you are jacking has to be supported from the basement up. Also you have to understand that the exterior brick wall has lost height over the years due to mortar deterioration between the brick so overall that loss may amount of 1-2 inches over the entire height of the exterior wall. Jacking needs to occur over a period of days in very small amounts. All you are doing is putting stress on the wooden staircase itself at this point and that is probabl;y causing cracks and seperation of the wood stair structure. Not everything is DIY . Especially with the mortar bed of that bathroom involved and lack of supporting floor structure under that. Get some help before you destroy that staircase and you and your wife potentially get injured in a collapse.
Thanks for your concern. We know what we are doing. We understand everything you have concerns about and are already applying that knowledge in the pursuit of solving the problem.
I totally agree with you all the floor joists are rotting and need to be replaced and leveled correctly.
Absolutely!
You’re correct about consulting an architectural engineer. There are some things you can’t learn from the internet, like learning how to fly a plane. Would you you want to fly with someone who watched a video how to do it? The internet is fine for some things but I have learned one thing, any idiot can post a UA-cam video and some idiot will believe anything they see on UA-cam.😂
The engineering work has already been done. It has survived for 130 years. We just need to figure out how they did it.
I hate to tell you this, but i think you're going to have to disassemble all those staircases.
At least the upper ones.
We are going to try every other avenue first but you are probably correct.
Oh my! Since they're usable I never dreamed... Bummer!
Right! They have felt solid this whole time.
There's nothing wrong with the stairs themselves, at least they look okay from afar, but the issue is how to fix the structure that supports them and the floors with them in place. It's very difficult. @@rt3box6tx74
Unraveling the puzzel 😅
Exactly!
Is the house available for sale? I’d rather buy it and do a full on restoration. Instead of small info videos once a week that really don’t do anything to protect the property.
This house was for sale just over 3 years ago. Nobody was over our bid of 78,101. The land is worth more than 75,000. In other words, the Mooreland House was worthless. If you think that we have done nothing to protect the property in those 3 years, you might should watch some other channel. Logic and reason might not be your strong point. =)
@@moorelandhouse clearly you need white oak floor trusses and you want them green Not dried
Any sawmill can cut them for you
You need to pull out all the drywall and all the trim on the interior
Stop going from floor to floor
Do all the projects on one floor before going to the next floor
You do realize that we are still rebuilding exterior walls? You might want to look up the difference between floor trusses and floor joists before you start handing out advice on the internets. =)
@@moorelandhouse if you do decide to sell, let me know I could have it restored and move-in ready in one year with the crew of 30
You are exactly the type of person that ruins these historical restorations. We wouldn't sell it to you for any price.