Comparing 75W, 300W spindles, and Makita wood router for cutting aluminum on Genmitsu 4040 PRO CNC
Вставка
- Опубліковано 22 тра 2024
- 00:00 Intro
01:38 Setup
02:54 Stock 75W spindle: First cut w/MDF
03:49 Stock 75W spindle: Oak wood engraving and cutting
07:19 Stock 75W spindle: Acrylic engraving and cutting
08:27 Stock 75W spindle: Aluminum engraving, slot and pocket milling
11:32 300W spindle upgrade
12:08 300W spindle: Aluminum engraving, slot, pocket milling and cutting
15:36 Makita router upgrade
16:18 Makita router w/ 1/8 4-flude cheap end mill: aluminum slot, pocket milling
19:32 Makita router w/ 1/4 2-flude Speed Tiger carbide end mill: aluminum slot, pocket milling and cutting
25:17 Pros and Cons
Welcome back to Aurora Tech Channel. Today, I will be testing the Genmitsu 4040 Pro CNC router. In addition to the stock setup with a standard 75W spindle, I will be experimenting with two spindle upgrades. The first upgrade is a 300W spindle that can be directly dropped into this machine, and the second is a powerful wood router like the Makita RT0701, which has a horsepower of 1 ¼ or 800W. I'm so excited to see the cutting power and how well these upgrades work with this machine.
Let me give you an overview of the machine's features. The working area is 400x400mm, and the Z-height is 84mm, allowing for thicker materials. The machine frame is made of aluminum, and the X and Y axis use dual 16mm steel rods, making them super rigid. The Z-axis uses 10mm rods, and the frame has panels to protect the lead screws from debris. It uses standard Nema 17 stepper motors, and all of them have a jog wheel for manual axis movement. The machine comes with a 2-piece MDF spoilboard with M6 threads all over for clamp mounting. It also includes a Z-probe for stock and tool height adjustment. The frame can be mounted on a workbench to ensure stability. The control board supports an offline controller and 4-axis roller, but these are optional upgrades that need to be purchased separately. Overall, for the price of around $500, the hardware looks impressive. I would like to thank Genmitsu for sending me this machine to review, and with that, let's get started.
Genmitsu 4040-PRO
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Makita RT0701C 1-1/4HP router:
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Speed Tiger 2-flute 1/4" shank Carbide end mill(work with Makita router):
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Most of the problems are caused by rigidity. The router should be mounted close to the bottom. By mounting it closer to the top you are increasing the amount chatter due to the leverage. As a general rule endmills stick out should be kept as short as possible. You should be able to get much better results from the same router
Also the bits are sticking out too much. No coolant fluid either.
This was like a torture test.
@@TechnologistAtWork I know I mentioned it to you.
@@gremlinsports I know, I added further to what you said.
@@TechnologistAtWork Not really endmill stick out is bit stick out. I didn't miss anything you just added what I had already said.
@@gremlinsports you forgot about end mill stick out, no worries bro I got you
The Makira router will have much better results if mouted proprely. In your review, at 16:43 you can see that you allow it to create a lever effect (forcing the Z axis and X axis). If you clamp the makita router from the lower part (as intended) the flexing of the machine will be much lower. Ps: use shorter tools, as much as possible.
I came here to say this
As an older CNC programmer, I would give you a quick tip: Doing engraving in thin materials, always machine inside to outside.
The first frame you did, should be the last one to machine.
Thanks so much Aurora for going through all those different setups. Your methodical approach is awesome and inspired me to try similar upgrades on my machine. Keep on rocking!
As a machinist, one rule of thumb for end milling steel was to not have over 4 diameters of the end mill extended from the collet or the risk of chatter would increase. Certain circumstances it could be successfully extended further. Other softer materials such as aluminum and wood give a lot more flexibility but when encountering chatter I always started with the work holder rigidity and how much tool I had unsupported. A 30,000 pound machining center had to follow the same rules.
Very good advice. Thank you.
Just a heads up on the Makita router, they're actually used a lot in MPCNC builds, and V1 Engineering sells a 1/8" collet adapter for them for only a couple bucks. That would allow you to use all of your original bits for this machine so you could do an even better apples to apples comparison
mpcnc is rubbish and a unbelievable unstable and rickety machine . iv build one but halfway i am stopped and build an designed a clone of a onefinity . watch where you spend your money on.
Love your reviews and videos! Very thorough and good narration. Thank you!
This old man has learned a lot from you and your videos. I have just a few thoughts for you wrt the cnc machine. Open grained woods like oak and ash can be a challenge to get a nice surface. Walnut, maple, poplar and many other closed grained woods offer beautifully carved surfaces. Of course, climb vrs conventional cutting direction can make a difference relative to the wood grain in the piece. Secondly, I'm sure you've taken the appropriate safety precautions when testing the cnc and the various bits. That said, when a HSS or Carbide bit breaks, it can be quite a hazard to the soft areas the shrapnel may hit. Keep up the great work and I look forward to the next video expertly narrated by you and edited by your brother. Just to add to other comments, mounting the spindle as low as possible and keeping the bit as short as possible in the collet will really help the overall rigidity of the setup. Keep up the great work and I look forward to the next video expertly narrated by you and edited by your brother.
Finaly a video that show reflections regarding speed of router bit and size and also sofware hands on. Well done, you are doing great!
you are a gifted teacher and scientist. thanks for posting all the tests and talking us through it
Great video! I love this A/B/C testing, it’s hard to get good documentation on comparing available spindle options. On a safety note, I hope you can get some good workholding going for you so you don’t throw a part and hurt something (or worse, yourself!). My personal favorite for sheet stock is painters tape on the bottom of my material and on my bed with superglue between them. Cheers, can’t wait for the next one!
Excellent review, instead of telling us what you did, you videoed and showed us what you did, you answered my questions, thank you, again excellent review. 😊
As being a CNC Machinist and it's what I do for a living. I'd like to point out that and let you know that at times your doing climbing milling instead of traditional milling at times when one or the other should be used. On machines that not as rigid as say a v5 0r v2 that huge. You could look at just doing traditional milling only when doing pockets with a .010 or .005 wall offset and floor offset. And then do a finish pass on the inside of the pocket to finale demotions and have a good surface finish. On your slots try doing only traditional milling in one direction and your bit wont jump around and might allow for deeper nicer cuts.
Just trying to help, love your videos thanks!
If I can be of any help, please feel free to reach out to me.
Hello, why is it better to use conventional as opppsed to climb milling? My naive intuition is that for a machine of questionable rigidity, you'd be much better off with climb milling so that you could come back and do finishing passes.
I'm pretty new to this and I'm looking forward to hearing from you.
@@brikfilm When you climb mill, the cutter can pull the router along as the teeth bite in. If the machine isn't rigid enough to resist that alone can cause problems. Climb milling also means that the cutter can be pulled deeper into the cut. At best this results in an over-sized slot/pocket. At worst it can result in fragments of carbide flying towards you - carbide is very hard but brittle and doesn't like being bent. Conventional milling does the opposite of these which is safer - if it's undersized, you just have to run a spring pass (same dimensions but run again so if the endmill was bending away from the work, it can cut to dimension after it springs back)
@@brikfilm I'm sorry but I didn't get a notification about your question, If I seen this sooner I would have given you a better explanation. But @Cenedd gave the same answer as I would give. Thanks for the questions. And remember stay curious and keep on making things.
Another excellent and detailed review. Thank you.
With the smaller spindles most of your issues were coming from the long length of tool compared to its diameter, you could see it in several clips juddering to the side a reduced length of mill would make a big difference, With the Makita it needs to be clamped lower on the router to reduce flex, this might mean raising up the spoil boards but in all cases flex is bad, it looks to be a good machine for the price just not great for machining metals
Such a systematic proveout methodology was impressive and very informative and much appreciated. I just bought one of these machines...as yet unassembled. This will be my first entry into the CNC world. The aluminum machining was somthing I found to be most useful as I hope to cut parts to build robot arms using aluminum of the grade used in your video.
Great job Aurora! Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Realy like the way of detailing Pro's & Con's, keep the good work
Nice walkthrough and detail highlighting, thank you!
You guys are amazing, I just started Dremel Drill Press Conversion to a DIY Mini Mill. It is now where near this machine but i am only spending about $125 in parts. Thanks, Dennis
Great Video,very detailed.Keep up the Great Work.
I built a new z axis for mine and changed everything to regular linear rails when I added the Makita router and it works very well. You can get an 1/8" collet for these routers to run cheap 1/8” tools as well. With air cooling it does very well in aluminum.
Good job! Thanks!
I actually expected more from this machine...
Thanks for this great review. I have a 4040 and did upgrade the spindle to an 800 watt with a VFD. I found it interesting in your review that there seems to be a sweet spot when it comes to spindle speed. It looked like the chatter occurred with both too low and high RPM. Overall I am very happy with my machine.
I appreciate the feedback.
Every clip educates and keeps me on a creative plain. Basically saving time by reducing the trial and error factor.
The editing and the narration are very well done.
Keep up the great job!
Great video. Very well done. Totaly considering getting one. For us newbies, it would be very, very useful to get a tutorial on Fusion 360 CAM for 4040 Pro (beginner step-by-step).
Great video! Very detailed and scientific evaluation. Thank you!
Great video.
Shorter cutters would help reduce vibration
It was a good review. Thanks.
Thanks for the video! Liked the way you explained everything!
I've got a few tips though... 😁
The clamping of the thin MDF and acrylic wasn't really good, it clearly wasn't supported/held down in the middle, that causes vibrating and will leave a rough finish..
Also, the length of the 1st end mill is way too long, it will vibrate like crazy!!
I would trow away those ridicules ''clamps'' and make some better ones (or buy some), that will make the milling process a lot more stable and have a better finish all around!
a trick that would help you is if you put painter's tape on your spoilboard, on the back of your working material, and then spray adhesive on the tape and press them together. It would hold your media in place better while etching. will also help things like the acrylic bowing upward. Also, set fusion 360 to leave tabs around the edge to keep it from shifting on the final cut. Machine needs to be trammed as well.
I love this channel.
WOW, I’m pretty impressed by your vibe lol
👍👌👍@Aurora ; good review!!!
Excellent review thank you.
Very informative. Thanks
Love the video thanks for the information and your time God bless you.
Good job, thank you!
Aurora so good at explaining details of things. Clear and to the point every time. Parents much respect for raising smart children and professional
Thanks a lot for your information
Great job on the video.
Hi all. First off I think that you and your brother have one of the best review channels on UA-cam. You cover the machines very concise. Nice review of this nice looking cnc machine.
I noticed that your hair is getting long. Is it naturally curly? Well keep up on this awesome channel. You and your brother are going to go far in life.
Cheers from Calgary Alberta Canada 🇨🇦 👍 😀
Very usefull rewiev. Thank you very much.
Great job
Keep up the good work…😎👍
Another great breakdown of a product.
Thank You Both
This video is absolutely amazing! Thank you so much for putting it together. I just received one of these machines for Father's Day, and all of the other videos I watched were vastly inferior to yours. You have a new subscriber.
Now if I can just find somebody using the laser.
Nice test. For narrow pockets compressor is a must. 4 flute end mill works best for polishing edges. I would say 1/8 collets should become standard at Makita.
Your videos are so great thank you so much
I would say that when you are experimenting with slot cutting, you may want to widen your slot just a little bit so that you're not cutting both sides at the same time. This old Tony has a good video talking about the problem with trying to climb cut at the same time that your forward cutter whatever it's called, anyway it's a weird set of forces and my impression is that it's a better machining practice to just cut the one side at a time and less likely to create strange resonances with your bet disclaimer I'm a beginner and I might be wrong about this analysis
clamping the router close to the bit instead of the top of the router helps, but that z axis needs a mod, two short lineal rails should not be difficult they are cheap and a mini project to do
Thank you very much... What bit are you using for cutting acrylique please ?
I love the channel and reviews are preferred over all others because of details. This thing is still a hard sell over a Onefinity. That is obvious but cost for value is still outweighed by my own buying preferences. It’s buying a expensive tank versus an affordable Jeep. Still cool to see options.
Excellent review. I also upgraded my CNC with the same Makita router, however I got the motor overheated in just a couple of minutes even with out cutting. Is it only me having this problem ?
Thanks so much for such a good video. Congratulations !!
Great video! If you plot the results of your test with the feed rate, depth of cut, and spindle speed, you’ll find a sweet spot that corresponds to the chip load. There are calculators to handle the math but basically based on cutting data you can fine tune how much bite each flute takes per revolution. You’re onto it already with your test but you may be able to get the cutter data from the manufacturer or so I’m told… I bought cheap bits and had to do my own tests.
An excellent source for chip load and other information needed for machining aluminum is the machinery handbook.
The major problem that you experienced though was the rigidity of the machine. As others have mentioned, the best practice is to keep the mounting of the spindle and the bit as short as possible.
One other issue is the clamping of the material. The clamps are being used backwards. They are meant to have the solid end on the workpiece and the screw on the other end should be adjusted to be slightly higher that the material thickness with the screw to tighten the clamp being as close to the workpiece as possible and closer the end of the clamp that is on the material than the other end. The way the clamps are shown in the video, the force is only on the edge of the material and not holding it down as much as it could if used properly.
Overall the video was were well done and the clamps weren't an issue but the rigidity of the machine looks marginal.
@@tedreynolds4368 the clamping is atrocious.
Got a 3018, time to upgrade
All milling, on any machine, is successfully achieved when the feed-rate and depth of cut is correctly matched to the material being cut, but when the best cutter is selected.
in all my years i have never done a `movie spit out my coffee`............. but i just did when u threw the aluminium down.... busting a rib !!!! it`s the small things
great video. would be good to see a remake with a better z-axis assembly.
Another “2¢” I think that the size of the Makita contributes as much as the added weight. The longer dimensions mean a longer lever torquing against the z axis. The weight has some benefits in CNC as long as the machine is rigid enough to support it.
This is a great Japanese product!
Wonder how this compares to the 3020 heavyweight? That has linear X Z slides but 12mm Y shafts.
This is really interesting. I would like to know which CNC models could support the makita without wobbling.
Could probably 3d print some sort of brace to go under that spoil board to stiffen it up pretty easy.
Hello PRINTcess. A little off topic. I just can't get the webcam to sharpen on the Sonic Pad. Full HD camera, where I can not understand where to change the resolution settings. Maybe you can advise. And a joke - instead of a camera, I connected an endoscope and it worked. This is for information.
Have you ever considered covering the surface with painter's tape prior to engraving for the purposes of reducing tearout?
Grate job on the video. Very informative.
out of curiosity would WD40 help it cut better ?
I'll be looking in to one of this machines to get , seams like a fun little thing to work whit and tinker on
Good video it talked me out of it , watching the flex in the gantry. The bed can be braced.
How many db can be a nice addition to tests , how loud things are at 1 m
My router motor is 3200 watts, about 4.5hp and water cooled.
Great content as usual! Do you think the 3030 Pro Max will be suitable to make copper parts? Like 80x50x30mm with 18mm depth of cutting? I need to make custom heat exchangers for a refrigeration cascade system to produce LN2 :)
To cut deep down to 18mm, you require a longer tool, but I doubt any budget machine can accommodate such a tool for cutting metal.
Would adding some oil into the cutting aluminum as a cutting oil improve your results? My experience with drilling metal tells me it is a Yes.
If a person would upgrade to some sort of blower to keep the bit clean the aluminum cutting may be smoother as it tends to stick to the bits a lot being a soft material. Also with the Z axis pulling downward on the entire gantry every time it comes to a stop its going to cause that chatter that kept eating circles in your cuts of straight lines. The manufactuer should add 50.00 to the machine and beef up that gantry and this could be a superior machine in its price range.
easy enough to do yourself.
so you cant control the spindle from the computer? you have to control the speed manually?
I was considering to buy this cnc but the result shown on this video and in other two seems not to be clean enough. Can someone help me to determine if it is due to the parameter used or is the general quality of the 40x40 not so good ?
good industrial design, the original spindle can go straight into the bin :D
I am very interested in this what software are using an will it run on a Mac
Great review thanks for all your work
Old comment, but... yes, you can run all of the required software on a Mac. She's using Fusion 360, and depending on the specific CNC control module your mill/router uses, you'd use something like Universal G-code Sender.
Please give the review about foxalien cnc mill
Have you thought about lubrication?
the type of cutting tool that you used was pointed and the other one is with diameter size and it was also overhang it will cause also the vibration.. pointed cutting tool versus endmill cutter has different surface cutting performance, clamping method must be consider also.
There's two things going on when cutting aluminum. 1. the bits are too long for their diameter, not rigid. 2. the type of end mill you're using is not a center cutting end mill. If you look carefully you will notice the problem arises at step down. That is because material can't be removed from the center when stepping down. Look at the cutting edges on the bottom and you will see they don't extend past the center. Hope this helps!
Hint- install the cutter as far up on the collet as possible, or purchase shorter cutters.
Solid carbide cutters are expensive but are far more ridged and shorter cutters in carbide are better.
Did not see it else where, but you said that walnut is harder than the oak that you carved on. That is incorrect. Oak, red and especially white, is much harder than walnut wood. Very interesting presentation. As others have said keep your bit as short as possible to reduce chatter. :)
Check out gwizard calculator; will save you a lot of heartache in re the correct feed and rpm based on the number of cutters and tool diameter. Instinct always says go slower or turn it up if stuff isnt cutting well, but that's not always true w machining metal. All and all, fun video and I appreciate the content and experimentation.
Where can i buy one of these love to get one
i can clearly see the run out on the makita. need to make mounts more sturdy
Interesting video and product, unfortunately now I just want you to have an actually rigid machine so you can see the difference.
Well presented.
Also be aware many endmills are not center cutting. It looked like the one you used in the Makita was not. To plunge with them you need to move back and forth to cut out the center.
👍👍
Allot of wobble and flex in that gantry.
I have a question, when u upgrade to Mikita 800w router instead of the spindle, are u just plug the router to get the power and dial the speed and unplug the connection of spindle of motherboards , is there have any another setup?
Yes, that's all you need to do, the CNC just helps you to hold and move the wood router, it has nothing to do with the power and speed control.
👍👍👍
What extrusion is that at 1:23 could anyone tell me?
👏👏👏
use shorter endmills, you will get less deflection and less chatter.
Would the DeWalt DWP611 router work also?
There is an optional 69mm mounting clamp, make sure you select 69mm rather than 65mm for a DWP611
does anyone know how i can turn my sculpfun s9 into a cnc?
Great videos. For what it’s worth, I will say that you may fare better if you find a way to implement a coolant system or at least spray some cutting fluid what you’re milling. You could also probably get away with using a cutter that has a coating that’s designed to displace heat and aide in chip evacuation. In my humble opinion and experience, if you’re seeing more powder than “chips”, you’re going to run into problems caused by friction. The bigger the chips, the more you’re pulling away from the work piece before it has a chance to build up heat, which is always your enemy. Just my two cents, anyway. Great video nonetheless!
How to order this cnc? I need 4'x8'
nice machine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
When will you review their L8 laser machine
The L8 is scheduled in July, and there is another CNC review, the 3030 Pro from Sain-Smart later this month.
Need to put some cutting oil for metal and aluminium to preserve your tool and make a better clean finish.
For aluminium with stock Spindle: use a short cutter, used is way to long. woblling like rubber. Use a AL specific cutter with 3 flutes 55 deg angle. You get way better results. Using Alcohol spray cooling, its better. Even with this toyspindle. Using a better spindel is way better.
Curious how a little wd40 or coolant would have improved your results.