Bosch 20 SEER Heat Pump Review | 2024 Heat Pump Series
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- Опубліковано 30 чер 2024
- In this video, we talk about the Bosch 20 SEER Inverter Heat pump, and discuss why it’s a unique product as well as its COP and other efficiency ratings. In this video we also compare the Bosch 20 SEER inverter to the Daikin Fit Enhanced Heat pump, and do a side by side comparison of its efficiency ratings some of the pros and cons of each unit. All in all the Bosch IDS Premium inverter is a great product and I think you’ll be surprised to see how it stacks up by comparison!
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Bosch 20 SEER Inverter IDS Premium product information:
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Excellent video, super impressed with the level of detail you've presented. Thank you for breaking down that COP information; true story I was just looking at those Bosch spec sheets prior to watching this with the intent to compare this (IDS Premium Connected) against the Mitsubishi PUZ-HA24NHA (PVA indoor) and striking out due to the conversion which you have demystified so brilliantly. The Mitsu COP is rated 3.84 @ 47F and 2.14 @ 17F which tips the scales towards Bosch.
I've come to the conclusion that although I really like the communicating units, I feel like their sweet spot is in ductless mini-splits IMO. The Mitsu control systems appear to be so proprietary and clunky that I might hate my decision down the road. I'm also really surprised that nobody seems to mind that the indoor ducted handler just has the same style air filter as the splits (glorified hairnet). For reference I'm installing this on Cape Cod MA, and state is offering a $10k rebate on whole house replacement of fossil fuel systems.
Right on, glad you found it helpful! For what it’s worth the Mitsubishi will probably be quieter in defrost mode than the Bosch systems though the Bosch is more efficient (based on the ones you’re comparing) so if that’s important it’s worth considering the Mitsubishi. I agree the controls can be clunky. I would ask a local contractor if they have issues with the Bosch making more noise in defrost mode because it’s a side note I’ve since been made aware of… none of our customers have mentioned it but our rep has said this can happen periodically depending on how often it defrosts. Cape Cod looks like a pretty good climate for a heat pump based on averages that I can see (25F-37F low to high temp swing averages) so you’ll probably be ok with either. If your condenser isn’t by a window or master bedroom then you probably won’t hear the defrost mode as much fyi but if it was by your bedroom or something I might consider the Mitsubishi.
Ur timing of posting this video is perfect as I just ordered an install of the “connected” version of this heat pump yesterday with install this Thursday! I live in Northern California where the weather is usually pretty mild and I also have solar so was thinking this would be a great system to replace my 30 year old gas furnace HVAC system. Have been looking at units from GE and Trane but decide on this unit. I have an ecobee so the info regarding the setting on that working with the Bosch is good to know. I plan to submit for the IRA tax credits also but unfortunately my electricity provider PG&E is not providing any rebates. I just subscribed and liked this video after seeing this great info! Keep up the good work.
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed the content and found it helpful 😁 I think you’ll enjoy the system
what is a connected version?
@@gg80108 It contains an antenna and works with an app so that ur dealer/installer and yourself can monitor the unit for errors and efficiency. Not sure if it's the default or not for the Premium series.
Thanks , I will check HVAC Bee Woodstock GA and update you😊
I just got this system installed and found this video. 😢
Thank you for a very informative video. I have this Bosch system installed this year. I'm not sure how it can work at -4F, in my case it really starts to struggle at ~30F when the furnace kicks in. At this point the condenser is already covered with ice. Otherwise a nice system. One thing to take in mind is that the bearings in the condenser are pretty loud and make grinding noise when at full capacity.
I think what you’re referencing for noise is defrost mode and yes I’ve heard these can be noisy in the defrost cycle. It shouldn’t be grinding anything that would be bad but that’s probably what it sounds like lol. Glad you found the video informative 😁 thanks for sharing your experience!
Thanks for the video! so when using a basic thermostat, does the bosch know when to quit using heat pump and switch to emergency heat on its own?
Yes it does!
We are looking at a new system now, but for whole house that's already ducted. Do you recommend the Bosch for a New Hampshire climate?
Just googled your historic weather and it depends because there’s a lot of variation between Berlin Manchester and Portsmouth for seasonal lows. Above 15/20F for average lows then sure, or I’d prefer the Daikin fit for comfort honestly only because it’s a true inverter and the defrost cycle is louder on the Bosch. Daikin fit is super quiet, even in heat pump defrost mode, Bosch isn’t bad at all and is technically more efficient but they both very efficient so personal preference I’d opt for the Fit for comfort. I like the Bosch because of the efficiency ratings needed for rebates in Denver metro (Xcel territory) it happens to qualify which makes it’s very attractive, and for customers who want to choose a thermostat (Daikin fit requires the Daikin One)
Can we have the temp in Celsius I have no idea what 30F is? Thanks great report
32F is 0C
The Bosch class that was put on at my company they told us that Nest thermostats don't work together very well and advised us to not use them on bosch systems.
Same when I went to the class I heard they prefer “dumb” thermostats… but the big point they made was to make sure any sort of “learning” or smart function was turned off so it functioned more as an on/off signal instead of trying to incorporate its algorithm into temperature control
Are you now leaning towards Bosch from your favorite Daikin fit ?? I love my Daikin Fit 17.1 and look forward to many years of trouble free heating & cooling here in Florida. The fact I got 3,100 in rebates and tax credits was a plus.
Honestly I still personally prefer the Fit only because it’s a true modulating / communicating system, and the airflow / communicating integrations between the indoor and outdoor unit actually does make for a more comfortable and quieter system. I really like the Bosch as an option for customers that want to take advantage of certain rebates in Denver, and/or want to use an ecobee (you’d be surprised how many people don’t want / like communicating thermostats or just really don’t want to give up the ecobee/nest). So it’s a great system and technically more efficient, but I’m still leaning towards the fit just based on the comfort factor I’ve seen in action
EER ratings are really important on non-communicating systems in hot weather because they generally run near 100% capacity much of the time - unless the indoor blower is staged. For utilities, low EERs produce high power draw in very hot weather and meeting peak demand is more important than average seasonal demand.
Many inverters like daikin-fit are side discharge and those have poor EER ratings because the outdoor coils are small.
The bosch is more of a north american design with more coil area.
Interesting I didn’t know that… I would love to do a “in action” video where I monitor amp draw/power consumption of a system throughout the day in peak season in Phoenix or another hot market for example just to see how things keep up and actually perform because I’d be curious to monitor actual realtime power consumption.
@@TheHVACDopeShow eer at different outdoor temperatures is published for gree flex but that machine is not intended to be staged. if you buy a bosch ids or carrier 38mura they're designed to be staged, for bosch it is all done based on indoor coil pressure just staging indoor airflow.
I suspect that in phoenix many inverter tech units are not the best choice. Highest seer/eer single stage could be the best way to go especially with air ducts in attic, lower velocity on low causing increased duct loss along with lower eer in very hot weather for inverter side discharge units with smaller outdoor coils.
Inverters really shine in zoned and cold climate heatpump applications due to enhanced capacity control and better heating in cold weather. though some inverter HPs lose capacity as it gets colder as quick as conventional.
So I'm interested in replacing my Hydro air system with a Bosch but I can't find any information on my existing system to compare? I have a Ruud air conditioner UAMB-036JAZ and a first company air handler 36MBXB-HW Buderus boiler all 20 years old R22 and 10.2 solar array and was thinking to upgrade to a Bosch to help off set the carbon ft print and use my solar system for AC/ heat in CT cause my electric bill is $9 a moth grid tie in but I cannot find anything on the old to make comparisons with the new unit?? If the efficiency between the old in the summer will offset the heating in the winter?? Boiler would only run on really cold days and for domestic not water? Your thoughts would greatly be appreciated!!
Hey Kevin, yes that would offset it and basically there’s not a matchup with a first co unit so the way you would have a tech install that is just making sure you are able to run the needed wire to the condenser and it would pair with the indoor unit. Technically with a TXV that indoor unit should work provided the capacity is at least 2 tons, because that’s the lowest you can set the capacity on the 3 ton Bosch systems. Great question and would be curious to see if any Bosch representatives chime in or have something to say otherwise. The outdoor unit does all the calculations in terms of registering temperatures at pressures at the condenser so it should work fine. And as far as setting a switchover temp I think you’d be able to tie into the built in relay
How does the indoor unit communicate with the outdoor variable speed compressor?
The Bosch does not communicate. It senses pressure and shoots for target pressures and temps on the suction / liquid line and adjusts up and down incrementally. Normal communicating systems communicate via two comm wires that are connected to the board and thermostat and allow everything to integrate like on a Daikin Fit.
I have a couple rentals with the Bosch 2.0 and some others with the carrier hybrid. At my home I have carrier/bryant communicating system.
I would say the Bosch is a good option for the reason you said but I’m more of a fan of the side discharge units. Also the Bosch is a lot louder in heat than in cooling and has issues with harmonic sound in heat.
I also like side discharge, that’s good feedback I have not heard that… is the harmonics coming from the condenser outside or the ductwork in the home?
@@TheHVACDopeShow from the Lineset inside the house. Super loud inside the house.
@@seanwebb1589 This is somewhat concerning, how bad is that, and do you think it's an installation problem and can be fixed, or is it just how the units are designed? Are you pairing it with a Bosch (BVA) air handler?
@@dgolmsted paired with a trane 2 stage furnace and coil in one scenario and a single stage Bryant/carrier in the other. Not an install problem. We did put an additional muffler on one to try and reduce the vibration
They perform well but having multiple homes with different kinds of setups I call this the poor man’s inverter.
@@seanwebb1589 gotcha..thanks for the response. What part of country are you in, i.e. is heat used more than cooling? Do you think this noise problem would go away if you paired it with a Bosch air handler?
Compare the Bosch to the Daikin DZ18VC line. It is supposed to have a COP rating of 6.2.
Will do, I’m going to keep up with this series and do more head to head reviews across brands. It seems to have been a helpful topic / format. And we’ll also be incorporating some of these with install videos as well so people can see the finished product
One of the selling points for the Daikin is the warranty. How does that compare?
This is 10 years vs. 12 on the Daikin, it’s not bad by any means, but the Bosch system is really good for people that need to hit certain tiers to qualify for rebates in their area
2150 sq ft house with a current 3.5 AC that runs 6-10 mins max then shuts off (1 stage). Multiple local companies say replace with 4 ton variable but one say 3 ton variable. Looking at a Bosch 20 seer Heat Pump with 96 backup furance…the one 3 ton company ran a manual S but house section says 26,500 btus for cooling…would a 3 ton running closer 100% at peak or a 4 ton running closer to 70% be better based on your experience?
As long as you have backup heat then the 3 ton running for a cooling load of 2.5~ tons (2.2 tons is what you said the manual s is. The 4 ton is probably overkill if your system is already short cycling. 3 ton is probably fine I would just confirm with the contractor that they guarantee that’s the right size. Is it 2150 above grade or 2150 and half is a basement? Just curious and loads vary drastically by region so I can’t really gauge your sizing by anything other than the info you provided regarding a 3.5 ton system currently short cycling which is VERY helpful information btw 😁 and kind of a tell to probably go with the 3 ton system. Sorry for the delayed response busy in summer!
@@TheHVACDopeShow yeah it’s 2150 above grade sq ft with 1 vaulted ceiling (that was included in the manual s report). The house is on the east coast near the coast- lots of humidity - hence why I don’t want the new system to short cycle. all good. Keep up the great content!
Will you ever get your money back spending so much on these super high efficiency systems compared to the cheaper IDS lite and plus versions?
It really depends but the short answer is “most of the time yes” and that’s because of rebates. In certain parts of the Denver market the 20 seer qualifies for up to $8,700 in rebates / tax credits so the savings is such that the 20 SEER is cheaper because of all the subsidies. If it was a head to head comparison you could do a head to head between the COP and see the efficiency is essentially a (ballpark) 25-35% improvement depending on operating conditions, so if you take your heating and cooling costs and subtract 25-35% that will essentially tell you how much you’ll save per month and then calculate the breakeven based on months to breakeven. Normally 5-10 years but like I said in city of Denver right now the rebates make the systems basically the same price on day 1 so there’s no “breakeven” because it’s the same price basically
I am looking to replace my unit do you recommend this unit in Tucson AZ.
20 seer Bosch? Yes they work great and handle high ambient temps easily… great system.
@@TheHVACDopeShowdo you do installs in Tucson?
Wow
I need installation service in Lilburn, Georgia State, Atlanta area, can you help.
There’s a company in Woodstock called HVAC Bee (not related ironically lol) but great reputation, and good people I know the owners. If they don’t service your area lmk and I’ll ask around
Just came across your videos. They're awesome. I've learned a lot in a few hours!
Buuuuut, the on-screen overlays look so unprofessional when you spell "Xcel" as "Excel" (in several of them).. it's like when technical people call it an "Iphone" instead of an "iPhone". We all know how it's supposed to be spelled. Just do it -- comply with their brand name. 😅
Yeah I know and notice sometimes, but honestly I just don’t have time to correct the editor and honestly there’s such a glut of content on the internet I’ve learned it really doesn’t matter in the beginning but we’re working on elevating it so they make less of those mistakes and continue to elevate the quality. Thanks for the feedback 😁 but yeah I agree lol it kind of bugs me I’ve just tried to not let it bother me and try to point it out and make the next set of videos better