I feel like the criteria for “good” unit is unclear and inconsistent across each faction. Are we focusing on cost efficiency primarily? Absolute performance? Accessibility? Etc. (Ranking of the importance of each variable?) Maybe the criteria were more clear in the Discord?
Agreed. It's weird to see endgame units like Ironbreakers in the same tier of "best unit" as Free Company Militia. It'd be better if each faction got a "best early game/mid game/late game unit".
It's like 80% "doomstack material" or "insanely solid in a balanced late game army", then pox archers because they're cheap, free company because they're cheap and decent early game, furies because *technically* they're the only daemons of chaos exclusive unit and Nurglings because they're cheap and decent early game...
Worse at holding the line then regular chosen of slaanesh as well lol. The slightly higher defense doesn't do anything when they fail to kill any units so take more damage in a short time due to always fighting a max entity unit of armoured infantry.
Beasts of slaanesh are absolutely insane somehow. They dealt devastating damage in every battle i command them. Of course they are flankers. Its something with their attack speed and cleave radius and how hard is to hit them since they move so fast charging in and out. Take 3-4 of them as cav unit with some chariots of seekers and by alot of micro you will decimate any army with alot of range/artillery
I was skeptical at Chaos Furies and knew this was nonsense when Chosen with Hellscourges came up. Best units in what possible way? Furies that are worse than any other ones but are "unique" and the only Chosen with 0AP damage.
For hellscourges I think the benefit is that they are exceptionally defensive units in an army roster full of units with armor less effective than wet paper bags.
@@joelvannatta3266 Right, but the ones without Hellscourges also have all the armour and shields, but they can hit things and deal damage to them when they do it.
@@archiebudge1821 Taking a closer look at the stats, Hellscourges have 38 melee defense to the base Marauders' 28, plus they have Charge Reflection and Expert Charge Defense, making them pretty decent anvils, though they are overly reliant on hammers to do the actual damage.
I wouldn't say they're the best, but as far as functioning as the anvil for your hammer they're pretty solid compared to the rest of the roster. Especially helpful once you research the soporific musk debuff for all your basic infantry.
The empire : hellstorm ( it makes sure that the enemy is brought down to size before your front lines meet them) Bretonia : questing knights ( amazing armor piercing and mobility) Norsca : famir warriors ( sunder armor/ armour piercing/ high armour) Vampire counte : blood knights (good vs all) Dwarfs : ironbreakers ( most unkillable unit) Greenskins : black orcs ( the front line killers.. can pretty much take on anything) Wood-elves : way watchers Beastmen : minotaurs ( mobility plus damage) Lizardmen : ancient stagadon ( front line killer/ blob killer… poision attacks) High elves : sisters of averlorn Darkelves : doomfire warlocks (magic damage and speed) Skaven : posion wind globe/ or mortar ( good vs everything) Tomb kings : tomb scorpion ( animations and front line killing power) Vampire coast : colossus (range/terror/melee) Kislev : warbear riders / war sleds ( pure destruction.. best chariots) Grand cathay : skyjunk (amazing artillery, pays for itself in every battle) Nurgul: soulgrinder (range, poision, melee) Slaneesh : scourge runner charriots (flanking with ap) Tzench : knights (fast tanks) Khorne : bloodthirster/ blood letters/ warriors of khorne dual weapons.(depending on situation can mow through anything… has pretty much best melee killing power in entire game plus they got skarbrand) Warriors of chaos : dragon ogres Ogre kingdoms : crushers ( best cav in game)
Poison wind globadiers and mortars are very good units indeed (notably the mortars) but it's not true they are good against everything. Poison wind is bad against unique entities. More objectively, you made a mistake. Scourgerunner Chariots is a Dark Elves unit, not a Slaaneshite one.
cavalries are generally never the best unit because they struggle in some sieges, Bretonnia should have the Grail Knights, high weapon strength, magic, high speed, high charge bonus, good physical defense and armor, shielded, mostly anti-large norsca would still be the war mamonth like warhammer 2 dark elves would easily be shades, stalk, high armor piecing, good speed and melee, doomfire warlords are expandable garrison units skaven are still ratling guns, good against large especially compare to mortars, couldn't to shit to cavalries, which are the only weakness of the Skavens Stegadon are better than ancient because they can tear down towers easily and high range snips
I think thats a pretty good assessment. I just have a few adjustments: Norsca: Warmammoth (incredible frontline fighters and tanks) Dark Elves: Shades (amazing ranged ap, can fight basically anything) Tomb Kings: Khemrian Warsphinx (Does everything the Scorpion does but better, especially if you cycle charge) Cathay: Celestial Dragon Guard (Crossbows) (Amazing ap backline DPS, put regular CDGs in front and you have a two unit doomstack) Slaanesh: Hellstriders/Heartseekers (Fastest cav in game, always trades up, Scourgerunners are a DE unit) Khorne: Bloodletters (Best infantry in game) Warriors of Chaos: Dragon Ogre Shaggoth (The single entity variant is better)
@@fovarberma752 That's the question what "best" means. The great Unclean ones are also pretty good since their spells don't cost anything anymore. Soulgrinders of Nurgle are very good, since they are one of the "monster artillery" that is pretty decent in melee. But those two are lategame, and you don't get many of them quickly.
A significant amount of people would probably just skip to the factions they're interested in and leave afterwards. This is UA-cam where watchtime is king
I honestly consider hellscourge chosen to be the worst unit in the Slaanesh roster. Go 1v1 with any other chosen unit and they will struggle to net even a single kill.
We’ll notice how these seem to be judged not only on 1v1 combat but how they play their role in the army as a whole…. But yes they are shit for the most part
Not sure what you mean about Furies being the only unit that's unique to them. Do you just mean Furies are the only unit that only Daemons of Chaos can get but Nurgle/Khorne/Slaanesh/Tzeentch mono-gods can't get? Becasue WoC can also get Furies.
I feel like the criteria for what makes a unit the best unit changed drastically during the video. It started out being "Which units can take on pretty much anything and carry their factions battle single-handedly" yet for some units: They are pretty much useless past turn x and fall off fast but they are cheap. xD Btw, this is the first time I've seen some of these units (only played TW:WH 1 and 2) and the Waywatchers look terrible lol
Hellscourges have officially been seen at the top and bottom of the Slaanesh roster. The bottom of list one being due to their 0AP dmg and so in a vacuum they are completely useless as they do no damage against mid or late game units and given they are late themselves that’s all they’ll be facing.
They are the best option as the "unmoveable" anvil for a roster that want's to flank - but they do literally no damage on their own. But depending on what you face in terms of what damage they do, the exalted Daemonettes can do the same to hold long enough for the hammer to come down, while actually still doing quite a bit of damage. Downside is that they do take more damage themselfs.
@@souleater4242564kodd in this case I’d say it’s more about comparing them to regular Slaanesh chosen, which hold almost as well but actually did a bit of damage while they were at it.
2:45 shadeswords are good, but they are twice as slow to recruit as normal shades are. Just that singular fact makes them worse then normal shades. 5:10 nasty skulkers all the way in my opinion. Stalking ap units that can be recruited at tier 2 and get buffed into space by all the goblin tech buffs? Those little lads have 'dwarf killer' written all over them, but to be honest when you got a stack of them going you can outtrade an elite army unit by unit. 11:00 not hellstriders? I know they are a bit of a glass cannon, but their devastating flanker means that they shred even anti large cav in seconds. I even did some battle testing with them, and as long as your micro is average any hellstrider should get you the win.
0 ap chosen that die faster then the regular slaanesh chosen because they fail to kill any entities in a unit of infantry and cost more lol. I wouldn't even put regular slaanesh chosen as best unit when you have seekers and hellstriders on that roster lol.
@@millsy800 If you want a sturdy anvil you'd propably take the normal chosen, since they actually do kill something till the cav/chariots hammers whatever they are fighting. Or if you want a total glasscanon killing army, you can also just put exalted daemonettes as the anvil, who propably kill even more compared to the chosen till the hammer comes crashing in.
Imo Chosen Whip boys from Slanesh are a trap. 0 Armor Pen and very expensive. Slanesh has the most solid cavalery and I would put these units on the top spot.
Their job is to be a wall with that extra defence, reflection and charge defence. I do agree its not worth to trade all armor piercing for that, but they are super specialized unit that works literally only in slaneesh roster because their entire roster is chock full of Hammers for that anvil.
@dat guy you mean the "tests" where they were pitted 1v1 against high-armor elite infantry...? Are Corpse Carts bad because they can't 1v1 enemies too? I'm so tired of ppl long at units in a vacuum when that's neeever the case, especially for slaanesh, whose whole point is flanking. Their job is to be an extremely hard to shift anvil, and they do that very well.
@@drakebaker2769 Hellscourge Chosen are more expensive and less useful than the regular Slaanesh Chosen variant, so they're obsolete altogether. You give up all AP damage, 4 Weapon Strength and 2 MA for 5 MD and charge defense. MD is sadly one of the most useless stats unless you've got WAY more MD than the enemy unit has MA, but AP damage is always good. There's no vacuum or bubble here to worry about, they're just overall worse than the regular Chosen variant in every aspect except killing Zombies or another Slaanesh unarmored frontline.
@@jeremyyoyogi7205 Expert charge defense is nothing to sneeze at, and MA is just as valuable as MD? 1 MD reduces the attackers MA by 1, so if MA is important, so is MD by correlation. Especially on Anvils, I'd glady trade MA for MD when my weapon is shite and the whole purpose is to not die. They're not worse in every way, because ECD prevents them from getting thrown around like ragdolls from high charge unis, they "catch" anything that charges them
@@drakebaker2769 MA is not that great a stat either, I was just listing it as one of the things you give up by switching to Hellscourges. I get what you're saying that they're the ultimate anvil, but they don't do anything better than the regular Chosen variant. They're actively worse because of the huge AP damage trade-off, so they're strictly worse as damage also helps defend your frontline, since more kills = less units/models hitting your frontline which = less damage taken from the enemy frontline, and therefore you've got a more survivable frontline yourself. Any frontline with any form of armor (which is most considering it takes a bit of time to get to recruit Chosen) will have no problem against your Hellscourge Chosen, as their armor will block a large portion of their damage. I love Charge Defense, but no AI or Player will be charging your Chosen units. Having Charge Defense on something like Ice Guard is great because both the AI and players will actively target those units. Unless you're rocking 19 Hellscourge Chosen, there will always be another target that will be a higher priority to charge.
Black orcs are by far the best green skin units.. as they can take on pretty much anything.. and for their price they can go toe to toe with shit that costs more than them.
For the few people playing tomb kings I personally think tomb guard are their best unit because of how spamable and unkillable they are with heals and faction buffs. Although I can't argue against how strong ushabti great bows are
@@harrystyles7466 they are stuck with the norsca virus, haven't had a glow up in 5+ years and since they came first in WH2 every other faction has had some dlc power creep, even vampirates purely by coming out after them got big buffs like the queen Bess that Skeletons don't have anything similar to
For Skaven I prefer to bombardiers over the mortars. The bombardiers will shred infantry and large units alike and they can be handy for sieges as well as they can hit units on the walls. Mortars are effective as well but I find them to take longer to take out units.
I was thinking plague claw catapults myself. 100's of hours on skaven and PCC's are my favourite. Deals with anything but large units, but that's where poisoned wind globadiers come in.
For Vcoast you have to consider depth guards too...they got buffed recently and in 4vs4 units against choses they can win...And for norsca why not normal skin wolves?
I'm not sure if the Ice Guard is truly the best choice for Kislev. In my opinion the investment necessary for those, be it monetary or technologywise, is too great to ignore. They require a higher tier building than warbear riders (or same if you take the normal ice guard) and whilst they cost a bit less, warbear units offer the same benefits as the Minotaur units: large but not too large, armoured, decently speedy and strong in combat. You could also pick the warsleds for a ranged option. But in my opinion the best unit in Kislevs roster are the Armoured Kossars. They are an early game unit with good armour, silver shields and solid combat stats. The ranged attack gives them a good punch before they engage the enemy or before attacking the flank. And whilst the Ice guard has similar advantages, the fact that you can only get them later in the game and at double the cost makes it hard to justify getting them over 2 units of kossars (Katrin's lord effect helps a bit but it's only for her army), especially if you consider the usually precarious situation you're in as Kislev and that's before you consider all the buffs you can get for Kossars through the tech tree (additionally if you play as funky zealot man your Kossars get buffed as well and this time it's a faction wide buff). After all, why spend time and resources on a unit that's just a bit better instead of using the same resources to field multiple armies which can defend your cities or hold chokepoints.
@@khyroz9519 They might be the most cost-efficient but the advantage of the armored ones is that you can also use them to abuse autoresolve and I also like having pistol units, since they don't have much of a projectile travel time. That's why most of my end-game armies looked mostly the same as my starting armies: bunch of Kossars with spears, bunch of Armoured Kossars with shields, Patriach, a Witch and some bears.
I don't understand the choice of chosen hellscourge when Milkandcookies actually made a whole video about them being bad, a quite conclusive video actually. I mean, there's bound to be debate, opinion and subjectivity, but that's like two extremely opposite opinion about a unit from two youtubers (although here it's an opinion that doesn't come from Colonel himself). Chosen of Slaanesh Hellscourges are really useless in the hammer and hammer Slaanesh roster. Which Slaanesh player is so bad that they need their frontline to hold 5 minutes rather than 4 minutes with much more damage inflicted while they charge around with their other units?
Chosen Hellscourges are really good against daemons and let you hold up even the faster monsters that otherwise can just counter charge your flanking units, it's a role that can't really be replaced and let you use your flankers much more effectively. Sure they don't do the whole high tier infantry fights, but like the rest of the roster is good against high armour high stats infantry units as long as you can hit and run them. Are they worse in a one v one over against other chosen? Sure but in a fight of a chosen plus any other reasonable support piece the Hellscourges plus support win and then can win again.
@@derekoyama501 but isn't that role can also be done by normal chosen? Aside from a measly 5 more melee defense and charge defense/reflection, hellscourge chosen are identical to normal chosen but with 0 ap and more attack interval(less atk speed). You're not going to interrupt any cav with the chosen since they're so slow and hellstriders are far better at the job anyway. As for being a front line, a model killed is a damage not being dealt. Hellscourges inability to kill things actually makes them worse at defending certain hightier units since they deal no damage to the enemy at all unless 0 armor. Coupled with the quite a bit higher price tag and upkeep i've come to the conclusion that they're shit. Normal chosen holds the line more than well enough for slaanesh.
@@Sea-xr9nf The charge defense is like the only charge defense available that isn't on exactly slaaneshi marauders with no armor which die extremely fast where like hellscourges are solid blocks that you can drag your cav through either before the charge or after. Where normal chosen don't take enemy monsters or cav anywhere near as well. Sure normal chosen are the better in a infantry against infantry fight, but like hellsourges hold better against the harder targets that your cav or chariots can't beat cause of their frailty.
@@derekoyama501 Well, you're not going to fight daemons much, or at all, except in the RoC campaign (if you play N'Kari, WoC have no interest fighting daemonic factions whatsoever). And well, they have more or less the same staying power as regular chosen, as evidenced by Milkandcookies video on the topic.
At 12:47 , I think you meant to say "Vampire Coast", instead you said "Vampire Counts", I was confused when the Vampire Counts were counted twice here in a row, haha!
This list is kinda all over the place. Unfair to list late game units and early game units in the same video. Free company for empire? Sure up to turn 20 they're good but you have 140 turns to go after. The list just seems shortsighted.
The chaos furries are not exclusive to the daemons. The WoC can also get them as gifted units. I also strongly disagree with slaanesh and the Chosen. The Hellscourges have less AP than most early game units and will lose most fights agains armoured opponents. They might be good with support but a unit that is often useless without support should not be the best. I also think the aspiring champions should win for WoC. its much easier to get a lot of them and with the technologies they become really OP
Khorne - berserkers/exalted bloodletters Slaanesh - beasts of slaanesh Tzeench - flying flametrowers of blue fire Nurgle - chosens of nurgle Chaos - aspiring chosen after all researches Empire - outbreakers or hellstorm battery Woodelves - 2 tier archers with explosive arrows. Their weapon strenght is double higher than waywatchers and they did more damage in my campaign regularly, also much easier to get them, faster recruitment Opinion on factions i get long campaign victories
I had the same reaction with Norsca. Everyone knows that Warmamoth are their best unit, but he passed it for stupid reasons and instead went for the lesser varient of the skin wolves.
@@zgamer45 There's multiple vids on YT showing they don't hold THAT much longer than the normal Chosen but do considerably less damage so the hellsourges are the worse option.
@@shadow_king12344 I never said that they were the best, I personally feel that there aren't any best units. Just saying that a lack of armor piercing on your defensive front line isn't a huge deal.
I had my sisters doomstack fight the doomseekers warband wich is almost only slayers through a positioning mistake and missclick I basically had to fight them in melee where they somehow absoluteley obliterated them.
I disagree on the Khorne's best unit. It definitely is the basic Bloodletters. I mean I would even go so far to call them the best melee unit in the game. As they can almost beat anything in melee, you get them early game and they can serve you the whole game.
Armored skin wolves are not Norsca best unit. They are slow, so any cav can catch them inclusing the one that can kill them. The regular skin wolves are so much better because they can actually outrun what can kill them. No Warmamoth are the top Norsca unit, and your escuse to pass them doesn’t even work. They can bust through infantry line faster then Slannesh can bust her nuts, and the few things that can stop them are going to die beffore they die to missil fire, or at leats being put on life support system.
Feel like this might have been better to do as 2 videos, an early game and a late game best choice, as most of these are either trash in the late game or unable to obtain early on.
If I can make a suggestion, I wondered if you could explain how direct damage spells work exactly. Why some are best used when targetting a lord, and others when targetting a 120 models unit. Has it only to do with the spell having a set maximum models it can do damage to?
some spells do a limited model count but for the most part its the damage spread. spells like spirit leach do a lot of damage but it doesn't spread across a unit very well. while other DD spells that are focused on infantry will do less damage per model but will spread the damage out more, since most infantry models has very limited health per model a spell that damages 30-40 models is alot more effect than a spell that'll kill 3-5.
empire knights are empire's best unit because it provides the most power at a point in the game when empire would otherwise be struggling. a t2 shielded cav (w/ decent melee) from a t2 building. these guys can 1v1 almost anything that isn't spearmen when you first field them, on top of the typical cav role. i know that most people complaining about franz' start are not using these.
@@luggy9256 complained? complain. they still do, as he supposedly has one of the worst starts, along with empire's mechanics being a hinderance. which is fair. i'm suggesting knights because they're from a t2 building (+ blacksmith). and the timing is good with ~3 pts in redline + the first cav tech. you should be well ahead of the curve. ideal if grom has taken a lot of settlements. you'll easily get more out of them than free company militia, anyway.
introduction says: which units can pretty much take on anything and carry their factions battle on their shoulders; peasant bows - take on anything ? no. chaos furies - surely not. free company militia? you said yourself they fall off after turn 20 so they cant take on anything after that. 2 seperate videos with early and endgame "best units" would be better imo.
Stone trolls with that grom ingredient for unbreakable and they seem pretty busted. Granted you want to spam gobbos with Grom, but 3-4 trolls in every army guarantees easy time in smashing enemy infantry. Also HELL NO with hellscourges, they are literally some of the worst units in the game and barely worth it even with WoC tech for extra bonus vs infantry.
i agree with most of the list, though i have to say that i didn't play the chaos factions for now. but with vampire counts, i would have picked vargheists as the obvious choice. because the one thing vampires do best apart from hero spam is control of the skies. and the vargheists embody that. they are large monstrous flying units with insane damage. sure, they are squishy, but you get them pretty early and much easier then the varghulf, and if you build a flying army with giant bats to soak arrows, vargheists to deal damage, and a vampire lord on a terrorgheist, you can steamroll most fights (and especially sieges) until the ai starts to bring their best missile units. and even without a specialized army, they are just so good as a flanking unit with their insane damage, that most missile units get absolutely torn apart by them.
Big ups for the Free Company Militia! Excellent choice. Once they have to fight against Armor, they're significantly less useful, but against blobs of low tier units, they're phenomenal. Especially with Fire-Whilst-Moving, allowing them to run down ranged infantry or skirmish cav while ALSO dealing damage.
For Warriors of Chaos your wrong with the slaanesh unit The great weapon warriors Nurgle variant unit is, they win every melee match up and take very little damage due to poison attacks combine that with any healing or AOE spells you wreak any battle they are in even the 1 million siege battles that are in the game right now.
Shaggoths are so much more versatile though. They're great as frontliners and got enough speed and charge to be flankers as well, they're great at anti-large as well as infantry, while nurgle gweapon chosen are garbage at dealing out damage to large
I strongly disagree with your take on Bretonnia. Your take is that new players don't know how to micro or complete vows so a cheap easy to use unit is their best one? Can you remake this list but only for players that know how to use the faction? Also as many other commenters have pointed out, I think your discord was trolling you on some other picks as well.
yeah, i found his arguments for the peasant archers pretty weird. sure, bretonia cav is very micro heavy, but saying that that is the reason not to pick them really doesn't make sense in a faction that is built entirely around shock cav. and if the argument is really that he looks out for new players who don't understand their faction mechanics, the hellscourges chosen for slaneesh makes even less sense, as most newbies tend to spam certain units, and the hellscourges alone can do literally nothing in the fights.
Controversial opinion but I hardly use shades as The Druchii, the 5 extra range is nice but I prefer to go darkshards with shields, the shields allow them to duel enemy missile units with ease while your hydra and cold ones mop up enemy elite units for you
Isn’t it a forgone conclusion that the other shades are better than great sword variant every way. Why would you ever go for great swords? Someone explain that mysterious perspective please
I agree with your choice of Daniel's chaos furies, but not for the same reason. They are genuinely the only unit in his roster that has a place in every single army he could possibly build because Demons do not do well against ranged enemies at face value. A vanguard unit that can shred light ranged targets faster than anything at its tier while being replaceable anywhere on the map for basically nothing is invaluable. Don't sleep on furies, my guy!
Ok, funny joke, but what's the best unit for the empire (excluding thrones of decay since this video was made long before that)? Well, demigryph knights, steam tank, and the hellstorm rocket battery are all much more effective in every department (except hellstorms and melee but they're arty so it doesn't count).
The Exalted Hellscourages are the best units for Slanesh! My guy, those Chosen Hellscourages are the WORST Hellscourages. The normal version are better bc they actually have AP.
People people this tierlist is based on Dampener's PERCEPTION AND EXPERIENCE with the game, aka trying to make a balanced and varied MP style army IN THE CAMPAIGN, in deep contrast to Soul Grinder doomstack or whatever 2-3 units comp you often see in Legend's stream. To Dampener's Ratling Gun is bad because he doesnt take more than 2 in an army, Jizzail are weak because he uses a frontline of Stormvermin in stead of hero facetanking so plzzz, take that into consideration before calling him out. To Dampener, Chaos Furies are one of the best units ever because he take 2 of them and smash them into the AI's backline on Hard difficulty. Dude doesnt even play on Legendary so dont just flame without thinking.
Personally I gotta give it to the Lead Belchers over Man Eaters for the Ogres best unit. Like ya pistols but every other middle tier ogre unit has something of their own. Comparatively there ain't nothing like the walking artillery of the Lead Belchers. Several kinds of shot and cleaning up fine in melee says they are my best.
@ostagon11b great choice but I wouldn't call it the best purely because it can only be used by Undivided and Nurgle where's The Champions can be used by all
Stone trolls? Not the Arachnarok Spider? You picked similar units like the Stegadon and Necrofex Colossus for the Lizardmen and Vampire Coast. Why no love for the giant spiders? And if you're playing as Grom, they can even spawn additional smaller spiders. Stone trolls aren't that dominant. Certainly not essential. I rarely recruit them at all. If I'm going to bother with a unit that takes more than 1 turn to recruit, I'm picking the giant freaking spider every time. 10/10, would digest my enemies' innards again.
For Nurgle i have to disagree, Exalted Plaugebearers are insane, their daggers can destroy a large unit like a Dinosaur and their melee stats are very good, the tech tree gives them large buffs like double ammo and 7% ward save
i think you can argue pretty long about which unit to pick of the both. waywatchers are insane with good positioning, but if you don't know how to play the ambush style, you can get fucked. on the other hand, treeman are way easier to use, but an army with good missile damage can melt them pretty fast. i think in this case it is really which playstyle you prefer.
Helman Ghorst is calling and is claiming that Zombies are the best unit in the whole game. Not in auto resolve, but Ghorst players know that they can give them orders or blob them up, fall asleep and still win somehow.
Some really odd choices and inconsistent logic behind him. Free Company Militia as the best unit for Empire even though you acknowledge they are only good for the first 20 turns, but you say they are good enough in those turns to be called the best unit. Yet you get to Kislev and choose Ice Guard, their most expensive and least efficient infantry and a tier 5 unit, when Kossars exist. Kossars are free company with bows and Kislev leans overwhelmingly on them for the first 40 turns and beyond due to their poor economy - Kislev cannot survive without Kossar spam. If Free Company are the best empire unit due to early performance, why aren't Kossars the best unit for Kislev? Ice Guard are extremely meh unless they are in Katarin's army - very high upkeep for low AP and overall mediocre damage. For Empire, Handgunners are a better choice as their AP is crucial for dealing with the many armored enemies all around and any Empire player will be producing them in large numbers once they hit tier 3. However the real hero unit of the Empire roster and my personal pick are the humble Archers. This unit completely changes the Empire early game if you have the DLC and spamming them in vast numbers with spearmen will allow you to deploy superior numbers in most early battles, allowing you expand quickly and steamroll early threats before they can become major problems. Poisoned Wind Mortars are an average unit at best. Globardiers and Bombardiers are much better at short range and are excellent in sieges, and Plagueclaws deliver far better damage than mortars at longer range. Mortars also perform poorly against monsters, monstrous infantry, cavalry, and lords/heroes whereas bombers and globers are very strong against those units and globers are available 1 tier earlier. For Bretonnia, fire arrows are almost objectively better than pox. Much higher missile damage and they can get up to ~42 at rank 9 with all upgrades. Their fire attacks give them a huge damage bonus against important targets like regen monsters and trees, which with the current wood elf AI you will be fighting as Fay and Louen and Louen can use them against Norscan trolls and skin wolves, the latter of which is a major counter to cavalry. The higher base missile damage of fire will also be a great help at killing nearby Slaanesh, whose low armor leaves them vulnerable to missile but are fast enough that -15% speed from poison is hardly noticable. Mixing in 1 or 2 pox with 8-10 fire arrows can be useful for the speed reduction but Bretonnia can easily slow/stop units with their flying heroes.
This Colonel Damneders guy seems to rank units based very inconsistently. Also, you're a fool if you think Hellscourges are good in a factor that has no missile units.
Free Company Militia seriously? you even said it yourself, after turn 20 they fall off. A unit that can't do anything against armor, can't trade with basic archers, can't outrun any monsters. They're good at kiting the first army Balthasar faces in campaign lol.
I'm still playing Warhammer 2.... Even, though.. I bought Warhammer 3 the other day because of the sale, I still haven't installed it. LMFAO! Oh, man... I am such a Snail. Hello, everyone! My name is Gary. LMFAO! ( You know, like the Snail from Sponge bob? )
Damneders - "Nothing short of a nuke can shift the Ironbreakers."
Skaven - "That can be arranged yes-yes"
Yes-yes bomb the short-things!
Yes-yes, let us make-craft a bomb-nuke.
I can hear legend laughing his skaven arse off.
I feel like the criteria for “good” unit is unclear and inconsistent across each faction. Are we focusing on cost efficiency primarily? Absolute performance? Accessibility? Etc. (Ranking of the importance of each variable?)
Maybe the criteria were more clear in the Discord?
Agreed. It's weird to see endgame units like Ironbreakers in the same tier of "best unit" as Free Company Militia.
It'd be better if each faction got a "best early game/mid game/late game unit".
If you're really fiending for info, watch Legend of Total War's Unit Tier Lists
Yes this, the criteria here makes no sense.
i think it was voted on and people just voted on their favorite units
It's like 80% "doomstack material" or "insanely solid in a balanced late game army", then pox archers because they're cheap, free company because they're cheap and decent early game, furies because *technically* they're the only daemons of chaos exclusive unit and Nurglings because they're cheap and decent early game...
Hang on. Did you just make chaos furies the best unit because they are the only unit unique the Daemons of Chaos?
Chaos spawn : Am I a joke to you?
@@triploshadow Beastmen get them
@@noobiestnoob4206 WoC get furries too
That discord of yours said stealth magic is S, I wouldn't trust them
It's literally one of the worst lores lmao
That said the stegadon is the best lizardmen unit when it's easily beat by the ancient and engine of the gods
Stealth is S.
S for Steath.
@@shrubhd7360 can't argue with that.
Always love an early April fools video
No way you put Hellscourge Chosen as best slaanesh unit lol
They are easily the worst Slaanesh unit lol
Worse at holding the line then regular chosen of slaanesh as well lol. The slightly higher defense doesn't do anything when they fail to kill any units so take more damage in a short time due to always fighting a max entity unit of armoured infantry.
Exhalted deamonettes: let me introduce myself
Beasts of slaanesh are absolutely insane somehow. They dealt devastating damage in every battle i command them. Of course they are flankers. Its something with their attack speed and cleave radius and how hard is to hit them since they move so fast charging in and out. Take 3-4 of them as cav unit with some chariots of seekers and by alot of micro you will decimate any army with alot of range/artillery
I was skeptical at Chaos Furies and knew this was nonsense when Chosen with Hellscourges came up. Best units in what possible way? Furies that are worse than any other ones but are "unique" and the only Chosen with 0AP damage.
For hellscourges I think the benefit is that they are exceptionally defensive units in an army roster full of units with armor less effective than wet paper bags.
@@joelvannatta3266 Right, but the ones without Hellscourges also have all the armour and shields, but they can hit things and deal damage to them when they do it.
@@archiebudge1821 Taking a closer look at the stats, Hellscourges have 38 melee defense to the base Marauders' 28, plus they have Charge Reflection and Expert Charge Defense, making them pretty decent anvils, though they are overly reliant on hammers to do the actual damage.
@@joelvannatta3266 compare the two in a custom battle and let me know if you ever get Better results with the hellsscourges than the default
I wouldn't say they're the best, but as far as functioning as the anvil for your hammer they're pretty solid compared to the rest of the roster. Especially helpful once you research the soporific musk debuff for all your basic infantry.
The empire : hellstorm ( it makes sure that the enemy is brought down to size before your front lines meet them)
Bretonia : questing knights ( amazing armor piercing and mobility)
Norsca : famir warriors ( sunder armor/ armour piercing/ high armour)
Vampire counte : blood knights (good vs all)
Dwarfs : ironbreakers ( most unkillable unit)
Greenskins : black orcs ( the front line killers.. can pretty much take on anything)
Wood-elves : way watchers
Beastmen : minotaurs ( mobility plus damage)
Lizardmen : ancient stagadon ( front line killer/ blob killer… poision attacks)
High elves : sisters of averlorn
Darkelves : doomfire warlocks (magic damage and speed)
Skaven : posion wind globe/ or mortar ( good vs everything)
Tomb kings : tomb scorpion ( animations and front line killing power)
Vampire coast : colossus (range/terror/melee)
Kislev : warbear riders / war sleds ( pure destruction.. best chariots)
Grand cathay : skyjunk (amazing artillery, pays for itself in every battle)
Nurgul: soulgrinder (range, poision, melee)
Slaneesh : scourge runner charriots (flanking with ap)
Tzench : knights (fast tanks)
Khorne : bloodthirster/ blood letters/ warriors of khorne dual weapons.(depending on situation can mow through anything… has pretty much best melee killing power in entire game plus they got skarbrand)
Warriors of chaos : dragon ogres
Ogre kingdoms : crushers ( best cav in game)
Poison wind globadiers and mortars are very good units indeed (notably the mortars) but it's not true they are good against everything. Poison wind is bad against unique entities.
More objectively, you made a mistake. Scourgerunner Chariots is a Dark Elves unit, not a Slaaneshite one.
Lizardmen: regular Stegadons, with Ballista.
Khorne: Flesh Hounds
cavalries are generally never the best unit because they struggle in some sieges,
Bretonnia should have the Grail Knights, high weapon strength, magic, high speed, high charge bonus, good physical defense and armor, shielded, mostly anti-large
norsca would still be the war mamonth like warhammer 2
dark elves would easily be shades, stalk, high armor piecing, good speed and melee, doomfire warlords are expandable garrison units
skaven are still ratling guns, good against large especially compare to mortars, couldn't to shit to cavalries, which are the only weakness of the Skavens
Stegadon are better than ancient because they can tear down towers easily and high range snips
I think thats a pretty good assessment. I just have a few adjustments:
Norsca: Warmammoth (incredible frontline fighters and tanks)
Dark Elves: Shades (amazing ranged ap, can fight basically anything)
Tomb Kings: Khemrian Warsphinx (Does everything the Scorpion does but better, especially if you cycle charge)
Cathay: Celestial Dragon Guard (Crossbows) (Amazing ap backline DPS, put regular CDGs in front and you have a two unit doomstack)
Slaanesh: Hellstriders/Heartseekers (Fastest cav in game, always trades up, Scourgerunners are a DE unit)
Khorne: Bloodletters (Best infantry in game)
Warriors of Chaos: Dragon Ogre Shaggoth (The single entity variant is better)
On some level I have to think you chose some of these picks just to make people want to comment to tell you how much they disagree w you. Well done.
For Nurgle, I would have said Exalted Plaguebearers. That missile attack is devastating, and they're handy in melee too
Huh, Soulgrinder for me.
@@fovarberma752 That's the question what "best" means.
The great Unclean ones are also pretty good since their spells don't cost anything anymore. Soulgrinders of Nurgle are very good, since they are one of the "monster artillery" that is pretty decent in melee.
But those two are lategame, and you don't get many of them quickly.
@@Rakshiir Ratio of [effectiveness vs each separate enemy types] / Upkeep cost?
cool video. just one suggestion. if you do listings like that, please use the timestamp feature so its much easier to find the individual listings.
Agreed was just about to say that
Frankly, in the year 2022 it's completely unacceptable to not have timestamps, especially in a video like this.
There are timestamps! :)
A significant amount of people would probably just skip to the factions they're interested in and leave afterwards. This is UA-cam where watchtime is king
there are time stamps lol
I honestly consider hellscourge chosen to be the worst unit in the Slaanesh roster. Go 1v1 with any other chosen unit and they will struggle to net even a single kill.
We’ll notice how these seem to be judged not only on 1v1 combat but how they play their role in the army as a whole…. But yes they are shit for the most part
Agree, 0 armour piercing dmg puts them to trash can. Better to pick snb chosen
@@souleater4242564kodd except regular chosen do the exact same thing as hellscourges AND can actually kill stuff
Not sure what you mean about Furies being the only unit that's unique to them. Do you just mean Furies are the only unit that only Daemons of Chaos can get but Nurgle/Khorne/Slaanesh/Tzeentch mono-gods can't get? Becasue WoC can also get Furies.
I feel like the criteria for what makes a unit the best unit changed drastically during the video. It started out being "Which units can take on pretty much anything and carry their factions battle single-handedly" yet for some units: They are pretty much useless past turn x and fall off fast but they are cheap. xD
Btw, this is the first time I've seen some of these units (only played TW:WH 1 and 2) and the Waywatchers look terrible lol
Hellscourges have officially been seen at the top and bottom of the Slaanesh roster. The bottom of list one being due to their 0AP dmg and so in a vacuum they are completely useless as they do no damage against mid or late game units and given they are late themselves that’s all they’ll be facing.
They are the best option as the "unmoveable" anvil for a roster that want's to flank - but they do literally no damage on their own. But depending on what you face in terms of what damage they do, the exalted Daemonettes can do the same to hold long enough for the hammer to come down, while actually still doing quite a bit of damage. Downside is that they do take more damage themselfs.
@@souleater4242564kodd in this case I’d say it’s more about comparing them to regular Slaanesh chosen, which hold almost as well but actually did a bit of damage while they were at it.
2:45 shadeswords are good, but they are twice as slow to recruit as normal shades are. Just that singular fact makes them worse then normal shades.
5:10 nasty skulkers all the way in my opinion. Stalking ap units that can be recruited at tier 2 and get buffed into space by all the goblin tech buffs? Those little lads have 'dwarf killer' written all over them, but to be honest when you got a stack of them going you can outtrade an elite army unit by unit.
11:00 not hellstriders? I know they are a bit of a glass cannon, but their devastating flanker means that they shred even anti large cav in seconds. I even did some battle testing with them, and as long as your micro is average any hellstrider should get you the win.
Not the 0 AP Chosen as the best Slaanesh unit lol
0 ap chosen that die faster then the regular slaanesh chosen because they fail to kill any entities in a unit of infantry and cost more lol.
I wouldn't even put regular slaanesh chosen as best unit when you have seekers and hellstriders on that roster lol.
@@millsy800 If you want a sturdy anvil you'd propably take the normal chosen, since they actually do kill something till the cav/chariots hammers whatever they are fighting.
Or if you want a total glasscanon killing army, you can also just put exalted daemonettes as the anvil, who propably kill even more compared to the chosen till the hammer comes crashing in.
I know its repetitive to do this. but the game changes so much that this helps. Thanks!
Imo Chosen Whip boys from Slanesh are a trap. 0 Armor Pen and very expensive. Slanesh has the most solid cavalery and I would put these units on the top spot.
Their job is to be a wall with that extra defence, reflection and charge defence. I do agree its not worth to trade all armor piercing for that, but they are super specialized unit that works literally only in slaneesh roster because their entire roster is chock full of Hammers for that anvil.
@dat guy you mean the "tests" where they were pitted 1v1 against high-armor elite infantry...? Are Corpse Carts bad because they can't 1v1 enemies too? I'm so tired of ppl long at units in a vacuum when that's neeever the case, especially for slaanesh, whose whole point is flanking. Their job is to be an extremely hard to shift anvil, and they do that very well.
@@drakebaker2769 Hellscourge Chosen are more expensive and less useful than the regular Slaanesh Chosen variant, so they're obsolete altogether. You give up all AP damage, 4 Weapon Strength and 2 MA for 5 MD and charge defense. MD is sadly one of the most useless stats unless you've got WAY more MD than the enemy unit has MA, but AP damage is always good.
There's no vacuum or bubble here to worry about, they're just overall worse than the regular Chosen variant in every aspect except killing Zombies or another Slaanesh unarmored frontline.
@@jeremyyoyogi7205 Expert charge defense is nothing to sneeze at, and MA is just as valuable as MD? 1 MD reduces the attackers MA by 1, so if MA is important, so is MD by correlation. Especially on Anvils, I'd glady trade MA for MD when my weapon is shite and the whole purpose is to not die.
They're not worse in every way, because ECD prevents them from getting thrown around like ragdolls from high charge unis, they "catch" anything that charges them
@@drakebaker2769 MA is not that great a stat either, I was just listing it as one of the things you give up by switching to Hellscourges. I get what you're saying that they're the ultimate anvil, but they don't do anything better than the regular Chosen variant. They're actively worse because of the huge AP damage trade-off, so they're strictly worse as damage also helps defend your frontline, since more kills = less units/models hitting your frontline which = less damage taken from the enemy frontline, and therefore you've got a more survivable frontline yourself. Any frontline with any form of armor (which is most considering it takes a bit of time to get to recruit Chosen) will have no problem against your Hellscourge Chosen, as their armor will block a large portion of their damage.
I love Charge Defense, but no AI or Player will be charging your Chosen units. Having Charge Defense on something like Ice Guard is great because both the AI and players will actively target those units. Unless you're rocking 19 Hellscourge Chosen, there will always be another target that will be a higher priority to charge.
Putting peasant bowmen above any knight unit has to be bait
Royal pegasus knights......
Keep up the good work man,I love your vids.
Respect.
Black orcs are by far the best green skin units.. as they can take on pretty much anything.. and for their price they can go toe to toe with shit that costs more than them.
I got some doubt while watching the list until I got to the whipping laugh stock then I know u should not take the list seriously.
For the few people playing tomb kings I personally think tomb guard are their best unit because of how spamable and unkillable they are with heals and faction buffs. Although I can't argue against how strong ushabti great bows are
tomb kings are great, dont know why they arent more popular
@@harrystyles7466 they are stuck with the norsca virus, haven't had a glow up in 5+ years and since they came first in WH2 every other faction has had some dlc power creep, even vampirates purely by coming out after them got big buffs like the queen Bess that Skeletons don't have anything similar to
With Zerkovich really falling out of love with Warhammer and not uploading much anymore, you are a fantastic replacement! Keep it up!
He is? That's a shame. Why's that?
Why is that?
Nurglings are fking S tier, bro get these in ur front line with Chaos Spawn of Nurgle and youre pretty much golden till turn 60
For Skaven I prefer to bombardiers over the mortars. The bombardiers will shred infantry and large units alike and they can be handy for sieges as well as they can hit units on the walls. Mortars are effective as well but I find them to take longer to take out units.
They’re also very short range.
I was thinking plague claw catapults myself. 100's of hours on skaven and PCC's are my favourite. Deals with anything but large units, but that's where poisoned wind globadiers come in.
For Vcoast you have to consider depth guards too...they got buffed recently and in 4vs4 units against choses they can win...And for norsca why not normal skin wolves?
I'm not sure if the Ice Guard is truly the best choice for Kislev. In my opinion the investment necessary for those, be it monetary or technologywise, is too great to ignore. They require a higher tier building than warbear riders (or same if you take the normal ice guard) and whilst they cost a bit less, warbear units offer the same benefits as the Minotaur units: large but not too large, armoured, decently speedy and strong in combat. You could also pick the warsleds for a ranged option.
But in my opinion the best unit in Kislevs roster are the Armoured Kossars. They are an early game unit with good armour, silver shields and solid combat stats. The ranged attack gives them a good punch before they engage the enemy or before attacking the flank. And whilst the Ice guard has similar advantages, the fact that you can only get them later in the game and at double the cost makes it hard to justify getting them over 2 units of kossars (Katrin's lord effect helps a bit but it's only for her army), especially if you consider the usually precarious situation you're in as Kislev and that's before you consider all the buffs you can get for Kossars through the tech tree (additionally if you play as funky zealot man your Kossars get buffed as well and this time it's a faction wide buff).
After all, why spend time and resources on a unit that's just a bit better instead of using the same resources to field multiple armies which can defend your cities or hold chokepoints.
didnt legend say that basic kossars are the most cost efficient?
@@khyroz9519 They might be the most cost-efficient but the advantage of the armored ones is that you can also use them to abuse autoresolve and I also like having pistol units, since they don't have much of a projectile travel time. That's why most of my end-game armies looked mostly the same as my starting armies: bunch of Kossars with spears, bunch of Armoured Kossars with shields, Patriach, a Witch and some bears.
I don't understand the choice of chosen hellscourge when Milkandcookies actually made a whole video about them being bad, a quite conclusive video actually. I mean, there's bound to be debate, opinion and subjectivity, but that's like two extremely opposite opinion about a unit from two youtubers (although here it's an opinion that doesn't come from Colonel himself).
Chosen of Slaanesh Hellscourges are really useless in the hammer and hammer Slaanesh roster. Which Slaanesh player is so bad that they need their frontline to hold 5 minutes rather than 4 minutes with much more damage inflicted while they charge around with their other units?
Chosen Hellscourges are really good against daemons and let you hold up even the faster monsters that otherwise can just counter charge your flanking units, it's a role that can't really be replaced and let you use your flankers much more effectively. Sure they don't do the whole high tier infantry fights, but like the rest of the roster is good against high armour high stats infantry units as long as you can hit and run them. Are they worse in a one v one over against other chosen? Sure but in a fight of a chosen plus any other reasonable support piece the Hellscourges plus support win and then can win again.
@@derekoyama501 but isn't that role can also be done by normal chosen? Aside from a measly 5 more melee defense and charge defense/reflection, hellscourge chosen are identical to normal chosen but with 0 ap and more attack interval(less atk speed). You're not going to interrupt any cav with the chosen since they're so slow and hellstriders are far better at the job anyway. As for being a front line, a model killed is a damage not being dealt. Hellscourges inability to kill things actually makes them worse at defending certain hightier units since they deal no damage to the enemy at all unless 0 armor. Coupled with the quite a bit higher price tag and upkeep i've come to the conclusion that they're shit. Normal chosen holds the line more than well enough for slaanesh.
@@Sea-xr9nf The charge defense is like the only charge defense available that isn't on exactly slaaneshi marauders with no armor which die extremely fast where like hellscourges are solid blocks that you can drag your cav through either before the charge or after. Where normal chosen don't take enemy monsters or cav anywhere near as well. Sure normal chosen are the better in a infantry against infantry fight, but like hellsourges hold better against the harder targets that your cav or chariots can't beat cause of their frailty.
@@derekoyama501 Well, you're not going to fight daemons much, or at all, except in the RoC campaign (if you play N'Kari, WoC have no interest fighting daemonic factions whatsoever).
And well, they have more or less the same staying power as regular chosen, as evidenced by Milkandcookies video on the topic.
Someone knows what are the Colonel graphics settings? I can't get good graphics like him and I have a RTX 3070.
Uhhhh no one gonna talk about 0 AP damage for chosen hellscourges? Why not choose the normal chosen instead
At 12:47 , I think you meant to say "Vampire Coast", instead you said "Vampire Counts", I was confused when the Vampire Counts were counted twice here in a row, haha!
Minotaurs with shields are the best units in any roster within the context of their given roster.
This list is kinda all over the place.
Unfair to list late game units and early game units in the same video.
Free company for empire? Sure up to turn 20 they're good but you have 140 turns to go after. The list just seems shortsighted.
LOL, that's literally a phalanx for the chosen of slaanesh. Just a pure wall of shields.
Me when i hear the OST at 1:23
"BOW TO ME".
The chaos furries are not exclusive to the daemons. The WoC can also get them as gifted units.
I also strongly disagree with slaanesh and the Chosen. The Hellscourges have less AP than most early game units and will lose most fights agains armoured opponents. They might be good with support but a unit that is often useless without support should not be the best.
I also think the aspiring champions should win for WoC. its much easier to get a lot of them and with the technologies they become really OP
Khorne - berserkers/exalted bloodletters
Slaanesh - beasts of slaanesh
Tzeench - flying flametrowers of blue fire
Nurgle - chosens of nurgle
Chaos - aspiring chosen after all researches
Empire - outbreakers or hellstorm battery
Woodelves - 2 tier archers with explosive arrows. Their weapon strenght is double higher than waywatchers and they did more damage in my campaign regularly, also much easier to get them, faster recruitment
Opinion on factions i get long campaign victories
I audibly shouted "WHAT" when you listed hellscourge chosen as the best slaanesh unit lmao. Arguably one of the worst units in the entire game
I had the same reaction with Norsca. Everyone knows that Warmamoth are their best unit, but he passed it for stupid reasons and instead went for the lesser varient of the skin wolves.
wtf the chosen with hellscourges have literally no armor piercing. How are they the best unit?!
You aren't taking them for their killing potential but their tanking potential. They will lock down units so your faster or deadlier troops can flank.
@@zgamer45 my point still stands. They aren’t the best unit because they simply only have the holding capabilities.
@@zgamer45 There's multiple vids on YT showing they don't hold THAT much longer than the normal Chosen but do considerably less damage so the hellsourges are the worse option.
@@shadow_king12344 I never said that they were the best, I personally feel that there aren't any best units.
Just saying that a lack of armor piercing on your defensive front line isn't a huge deal.
I had my sisters doomstack fight the doomseekers warband wich is almost only slayers through a positioning mistake and missclick I basically had to fight them in melee where they somehow absoluteley obliterated them.
I disagree on the Khorne's best unit. It definitely is the basic Bloodletters. I mean I would even go so far to call them the best melee unit in the game. As they can almost beat anything in melee, you get them early game and they can serve you the whole game.
They are a glass cannon they are very good and there exalted variants are stronger then chosen but normal ones are a glass cannon,
Armored skin wolves are not Norsca best unit. They are slow, so any cav can catch them inclusing the one that can kill them. The regular skin wolves are so much better because they can actually outrun what can kill them. No Warmamoth are the top Norsca unit, and your escuse to pass them doesn’t even work. They can bust through infantry line faster then Slannesh can bust her nuts, and the few things that can stop them are going to die beffore they die to missil fire, or at leats being put on life support system.
Feel like this might have been better to do as 2 videos, an early game and a late game best choice, as most of these are either trash in the late game or unable to obtain early on.
1:24 many are the knights of Bretonnia who swore vows to end you for this choice
Does Valkia get access to minotaurs? I can't find them, if so. ._.
If I can make a suggestion, I wondered if you could explain how direct damage spells work exactly. Why some are best used when targetting a lord, and others when targetting a 120 models unit. Has it only to do with the spell having a set maximum models it can do damage to?
some spells do a limited model count but for the most part its the damage spread. spells like spirit leach do a lot of damage but it doesn't spread across a unit very well. while other DD spells that are focused on infantry will do less damage per model but will spread the damage out more, since most infantry models has very limited health per model a spell that damages 30-40 models is alot more effect than a spell that'll kill 3-5.
I'm just here to see nurglings take no.1 for nurgle
empire knights are empire's best unit because it provides the most power at a point in the game when empire would otherwise be struggling. a t2 shielded cav (w/ decent melee) from a t2 building. these guys can 1v1 almost anything that isn't spearmen when you first field them, on top of the typical cav role. i know that most people complaining about franz' start are not using these.
People that complained about Franz probably did it before the buff to empire.
Also the knights have no real AP damage.
@@luggy9256 complained? complain. they still do, as he supposedly has one of the worst starts, along with empire's mechanics being a hinderance. which is fair.
i'm suggesting knights because they're from a t2 building (+ blacksmith). and the timing is good with ~3 pts in redline + the first cav tech. you should be well ahead of the curve. ideal if grom has taken a lot of settlements. you'll easily get more out of them than free company militia, anyway.
@@Wayneheen oh yea free company do suck unless you’re playing volkmar…
introduction says: which units can pretty much take on anything and carry their factions battle on their shoulders;
peasant bows - take on anything ? no.
chaos furies - surely not.
free company militia? you said yourself they fall off after turn 20 so they cant take on anything after that.
2 seperate videos with early and endgame "best units" would be better imo.
Chaos Furries are one of those units you just avoid recruiting unless it's the first 5 turns.
I think you need to research units again and reupload cause there AINT NO WAY.
Stone trolls with that grom ingredient for unbreakable and they seem pretty busted. Granted you want to spam gobbos with Grom, but 3-4 trolls in every army guarantees easy time in smashing enemy infantry. Also HELL NO with hellscourges, they are literally some of the worst units in the game and barely worth it even with WoC tech for extra bonus vs infantry.
i agree with most of the list, though i have to say that i didn't play the chaos factions for now. but with vampire counts, i would have picked vargheists as the obvious choice. because the one thing vampires do best apart from hero spam is control of the skies. and the vargheists embody that. they are large monstrous flying units with insane damage. sure, they are squishy, but you get them pretty early and much easier then the varghulf, and if you build a flying army with giant bats to soak arrows, vargheists to deal damage, and a vampire lord on a terrorgheist, you can steamroll most fights (and especially sieges) until the ai starts to bring their best missile units. and even without a specialized army, they are just so good as a flanking unit with their insane damage, that most missile units get absolutely torn apart by them.
Yeah and Bran the Broken was the best choice for king 🙄
Big ups for the Free Company Militia! Excellent choice. Once they have to fight against Armor, they're significantly less useful, but against blobs of low tier units, they're phenomenal. Especially with Fire-Whilst-Moving, allowing them to run down ranged infantry or skirmish cav while ALSO dealing damage.
And why is Majorkill’s outtro playing I must ask? 😅
For Warriors of Chaos your wrong with the slaanesh unit The great weapon warriors Nurgle variant unit is, they win every melee match up and take very little damage due to poison attacks combine that with any healing or AOE spells you wreak any battle they are in even the 1 million siege battles that are in the game right now.
Shaggoths are so much more versatile though. They're great as frontliners and got enough speed and charge to be flankers as well, they're great at anti-large as well as infantry, while nurgle gweapon chosen are garbage at dealing out damage to large
That’s the slaanesh “best unit”one not WoC
I strongly disagree with your take on Bretonnia. Your take is that new players don't know how to micro or complete vows so a cheap easy to use unit is their best one? Can you remake this list but only for players that know how to use the faction?
Also as many other commenters have pointed out, I think your discord was trolling you on some other picks as well.
yeah, i found his arguments for the peasant archers pretty weird. sure, bretonia cav is very micro heavy, but saying that that is the reason not to pick them really doesn't make sense in a faction that is built entirely around shock cav. and if the argument is really that he looks out for new players who don't understand their faction mechanics, the hellscourges chosen for slaneesh makes even less sense, as most newbies tend to spam certain units, and the hellscourges alone can do literally nothing in the fights.
Best way to play Bretonnia: Play any other faction.
Pretty good lists, except i dont understand the furies for chaos ?!0.o
Controversial opinion but I hardly use shades as The Druchii, the 5 extra range is nice but I prefer to go darkshards with shields, the shields allow them to duel enemy missile units with ease while your hydra and cold ones mop up enemy elite units for you
1:39 Emphasis on the dirt.
correction soa can't tear through anything they lose to a fire-proof dwarf...
Isn’t it a forgone conclusion that the other shades are better than great sword variant every way. Why would you ever go for great swords? Someone explain that mysterious perspective please
I agree with your choice of Daniel's chaos furies, but not for the same reason. They are genuinely the only unit in his roster that has a place in every single army he could possibly build because Demons do not do well against ranged enemies at face value. A vanguard unit that can shred light ranged targets faster than anything at its tier while being replaceable anywhere on the map for basically nothing is invaluable. Don't sleep on furies, my guy!
Ok, funny joke, but what's the best unit for the empire (excluding thrones of decay since this video was made long before that)? Well, demigryph knights, steam tank, and the hellstorm rocket battery are all much more effective in every department (except hellstorms and melee but they're arty so it doesn't count).
The Exalted Hellscourages are the best units for Slanesh! My guy, those Chosen Hellscourages are the WORST Hellscourages. The normal version are better bc they actually have AP.
Hellscourge Chosen are one of the worst units, not the best.
People people this tierlist is based on Dampener's PERCEPTION AND EXPERIENCE with the game, aka trying to make a balanced and varied MP style army IN THE CAMPAIGN, in deep contrast to Soul Grinder doomstack or whatever 2-3 units comp you often see in Legend's stream. To Dampener's Ratling Gun is bad because he doesnt take more than 2 in an army, Jizzail are weak because he uses a frontline of Stormvermin in stead of hero facetanking so plzzz, take that into consideration before calling him out.
To Dampener, Chaos Furies are one of the best units ever because he take 2 of them and smash them into the AI's backline on Hard difficulty. Dude doesnt even play on Legendary so dont just flame without thinking.
Personally I gotta give it to the Lead Belchers over Man Eaters for the Ogres best unit. Like ya pistols but every other middle tier ogre unit has something of their own. Comparatively there ain't nothing like the walking artillery of the Lead Belchers. Several kinds of shot and cleaning up fine in melee says they are my best.
Aspiring Champions are definitely the better option for the Warriors of Chaos
For me personally, nurgle chosen with great weapons. Those boys shred. Walk them in behind chosen with shields and let them get to killing.
Either that or the Dragon Ogre Shaggoth
@ostagon11b great choice but I wouldn't call it the best purely because it can only be used by Undivided and Nurgle where's The Champions can be used by all
Those Dwarf Ironbreakers look sweet-ass
Stone trolls? Not the Arachnarok Spider? You picked similar units like the Stegadon and Necrofex Colossus for the Lizardmen and Vampire Coast. Why no love for the giant spiders? And if you're playing as Grom, they can even spawn additional smaller spiders. Stone trolls aren't that dominant. Certainly not essential. I rarely recruit them at all. If I'm going to bother with a unit that takes more than 1 turn to recruit, I'm picking the giant freaking spider every time. 10/10, would digest my enemies' innards again.
For Nurgle i have to disagree, Exalted Plaugebearers are insane, their daggers can destroy a large unit like a Dinosaur and their melee stats are very good, the tech tree gives them large buffs like double ammo and 7% ward save
I like the vid but it is blant, for example waywatchers have missile capability but the treeman is better for damage for cost it is different
i think you can argue pretty long about which unit to pick of the both. waywatchers are insane with good positioning, but if you don't know how to play the ambush style, you can get fucked. on the other hand, treeman are way easier to use, but an army with good missile damage can melt them pretty fast. i think in this case it is really which playstyle you prefer.
@@rudelwolf1591 yea it depends on the playstyle but also to he situation that you are in
in warriors of chaos why do u think dragon ogres are stronger than Aspiring champions
You cant be serious with this. You just cant mate😂
Heavily disagree on Chosen with Hellscourges. They are a awful late game unit for Slaanesh
Helman Ghorst is calling and is claiming that Zombies are the best unit in the whole game. Not in auto resolve, but Ghorst players know that they can give them orders or blob them up, fall asleep and still win somehow.
Hellscourges? Really? :|
Ive found necrofex to be quite poor in wh3. They melt immediately in melee, and have horrendous accuracy in range. Massive difference to wh2
Thunder barge entered the chat 😂
This was a really credible list.
Indeed the mineators
Some really odd choices and inconsistent logic behind him. Free Company Militia as the best unit for Empire even though you acknowledge they are only good for the first 20 turns, but you say they are good enough in those turns to be called the best unit. Yet you get to Kislev and choose Ice Guard, their most expensive and least efficient infantry and a tier 5 unit, when Kossars exist. Kossars are free company with bows and Kislev leans overwhelmingly on them for the first 40 turns and beyond due to their poor economy - Kislev cannot survive without Kossar spam. If Free Company are the best empire unit due to early performance, why aren't Kossars the best unit for Kislev? Ice Guard are extremely meh unless they are in Katarin's army - very high upkeep for low AP and overall mediocre damage.
For Empire, Handgunners are a better choice as their AP is crucial for dealing with the many armored enemies all around and any Empire player will be producing them in large numbers once they hit tier 3. However the real hero unit of the Empire roster and my personal pick are the humble Archers. This unit completely changes the Empire early game if you have the DLC and spamming them in vast numbers with spearmen will allow you to deploy superior numbers in most early battles, allowing you expand quickly and steamroll early threats before they can become major problems.
Poisoned Wind Mortars are an average unit at best. Globardiers and Bombardiers are much better at short range and are excellent in sieges, and Plagueclaws deliver far better damage than mortars at longer range. Mortars also perform poorly against monsters, monstrous infantry, cavalry, and lords/heroes whereas bombers and globers are very strong against those units and globers are available 1 tier earlier.
For Bretonnia, fire arrows are almost objectively better than pox. Much higher missile damage and they can get up to ~42 at rank 9 with all upgrades. Their fire attacks give them a huge damage bonus against important targets like regen monsters and trees, which with the current wood elf AI you will be fighting as Fay and Louen and Louen can use them against Norscan trolls and skin wolves, the latter of which is a major counter to cavalry. The higher base missile damage of fire will also be a great help at killing nearby Slaanesh, whose low armor leaves them vulnerable to missile but are fast enough that -15% speed from poison is hardly noticable. Mixing in 1 or 2 pox with 8-10 fire arrows can be useful for the speed reduction but Bretonnia can easily slow/stop units with their flying heroes.
Probably half of that list is BS. Furrys? Stone trolls? Hellscorges? Dragon Ogres? You play exklusiv on easy?
thats...VERY interesting take, to say the Least...(as "best" units...lol)
Whenever you say "faction" you probably mean "race". A "faction" would be a specific lord or part of that race
How are ratling guns and ogre artillery not the best unit lmao.
I can’t tell if he’s trolling or Bsing…
Hellscourger Chosen doomstack
That would be a bad doomstack
@@shadow_king12344 not according to this randomly generated tier list.
When I see a list called "the best units for every faction" I didnt really expect "the best units for up to turn 20 or 30. Lmao.
for chaos - aspiring champions. tech just makes them too good.
If you talk about Archeon. I think the other Chaos factions don't make them as good. With Archeon though they are just stupid strong
This Colonel Damneders guy seems to rank units based very inconsistently. Also, you're a fool if you think Hellscourges are good in a factor that has no missile units.
Great video but I disagree with damn near every point lol
Peasant bowmen honestly need their range reduced to 140 or 150
Free Company Militia seriously? you even said it yourself, after turn 20 they fall off. A unit that can't do anything against armor, can't trade with basic archers, can't outrun any monsters. They're good at kiting the first army Balthasar faces in campaign lol.
I'm still playing Warhammer 2.... Even, though.. I bought Warhammer 3 the other day because of the sale, I still haven't installed it. LMFAO! Oh, man... I am such a Snail. Hello, everyone! My name is Gary. LMFAO! ( You know, like the Snail from Sponge bob? )
Erm... chosen hellscourges are absolute trash...