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I'm going to put my 2 cents worth in here and a lot of you will probably not agree with me but please hear me out before pooh-poohing my statements. I've been finishing bare wood for more than 40 years - cabinets, furniture, floors, and a lot of custom high-dollar rifle, shotgun, and pistol stocks. The one thing I know to be true when staining and varnishing wood is the more you sand the more grain you will see, Now, let me clarify this statement - I start with 150 grit paper then move to 220 grit - just as most people do. But if you really want to have eye-popping grain and super smooth finishes then you need to take it further. After the 220 grit I move to 320, 400, then 600 grit. I always do the 220, 320, 400, and 600 grits by hand - NEVER with a machine. Waste of time? Not hardly, I've tested this process and there is definitely a huge difference in grain appearance and the smoothness of the final finish. It's the proverbial "night-and-day" type of thing. Once of my most cherished pieces is a dining room table made of birch and stained a dark ebony to get a Japanese "black lacquer" appearance. This table has such a deep and lustrous appearance that you'd think I spent days and days rubbing and polishing it. Actually, after sanding to 600 grit and staining, I put 3 coats of Minwax Gloss Polyurethane - sanding with 600 grit after the first coat then using 0000 steel wool after the second coat. The results were outstanding. Super high gloss but you can still see the wonderful grain showing though. So take it from me - sand, sand, sand if you want a truly unique finish.
Nice description thx :-) in many places I often hear that going beyond 320 can cause issues with wood accepting stain uniformly. Have you experienced this? Cheers
@@veguitars Only 'natural' finishes are problematic with finely sanded wood. (Hard wax oil, Tung oil, etc) Synthetic finishes - Sprayable varnish, Acrylic, PU top coat have zero adhesion issues even with 2000 grit sanded panels. After all, these finishes are the most widely used kind of finishing for automotive paint! (2000 grit sanding is more or less a mandate here 😜)
@veguitars the trouble accepting stain comes from the wood grain becoming packed with fine sawdust from high grit sanding. By sanding with the grain by hand, the sawdust is cleared out of the channels allowing stain to penetrate evenly.
Prime your brush with mineral spirits (or water for water based) and shake it out before that first dip into the poly. It will clean up easier and last much longer. Love the sports bottle trick.
Great point, JA! Another tip is to use a prick punch to make holes in the rim groove for the lid, so that most of the excess will drain back into the can. As the can's content gets used, lumps of dried and hardened finish will prevent proper sealing.
@@jageo48 If it's expensive paint or finish I'll actually pour it off into a fresh can if I'm trying to preserve it for future use. But yeah this is a great idea to save the fuss.
@@Mainbusfail Thanks. I'm actually a hack woodworker but love this channel and hope to set up a real shop someday. But my dad sold ultra high-end paint and brushes (fine art stuff) back in the 50's and 60's and it was the one real life hack he taught me. Don't skimp on brushes and keep them clean and they will last decades. It's proven to be true.
I used to spray in an industrial setting shooting oil based paint all day. My favorite mask was the blue Belcamp masks from NAPA automotive supply stores.. I don't know if they're still available, but they were less expensive than 3M, had a MUCH better fit and seal. Now I have a 3M just because I don't need it nearly as often. If you're spraying a lot, and by a lot I mean upwards of 50 or so gallons a week you should get a fresh air supply system that covers your entire body because you will absorb the solvents into your skin and will probably eventually wake up completely numb from your knees and elbows down to fingers and toes like I did.. I wear a mask no matter what I spray, no matter how much time I might be exposed. I had to learn the hard way when companies didn't care and neither did OSHA ..
Great GREAT advice. One thing I just can't get through to kids is how that stuff builds up, even if you're using an aerosol once in a while. Of course, being young they're "bullet proof" and it's just not "cool" to be careful! I'm with you - I wear a mask every single time I spray. It really isn't worth gambling with your health. At the end of the day, that's ALL you have!
@@Zzrdemon6633 I was applying for a cabinetmaking job a few years back when I met an older lady who was their main finisher. You could tell that when she was younger, she'd be an easy 8.5-9/10. I thought for sure she was 45+. Nope. asked my buddy who worked there. She was 32. 32! She smoked and sprayed all day.
I’m in this one, too. Yes. Always wear a full-face respirator and body suit. No matter what you’re spraying, waterborne or solvent-based. When I suit up to shoot 2K solvent-based polyurethane, I can’t smell a thing; if you smell the solvent, it means you’re not completely protected. And, as every finisher knows, this stuff (especially the catalyst) is really nasty for your health. So, take the right precautions, and enjoy the aesthetics-and superior durability-of a spray-on finish! Once you’ve mastered the gun, you’ll never trade it in for anything else.
I'm a paid professional. I've made hundreds of pieces of furniture. I pay to live by doing it. And it's amazing how much I still have to learn. Thank you for being such an amazing place to learn from. One day I'd love to be your "competition" here on the tube. But that is out of admiration.
I bought the Trend mask on you recommendation after one of your other videos. I've used many masks over the years and the Trend is the best thing since sliced bread !. A tip I got from one of my co workers a few years back in relation to the final coat of varnish. It works best when you are working on a flat surface, ie. you have a door on trestles or a bench. As your varnish is getting tacky, spray a fine mist using a trigger spray bottle, from above of whatever the recommended thinner medium for your product is. It doesn't take much, but it evens out the surface of the coating. I tried it on my new oak panel doors and they looked like they had been factory pre finished. Try it on some off cuts, it will cost nothing but a spray bottle and varnish. Keep those videos coming.
@@williambranham6249 Yes William, whatever your chosen varnish suggests for thinning. Get the mist as fine as you can and hold it at extended arms height. White spirit as we call it here for oil based varnish. I've used the same procedure to finish gloss lacquer on the final coat on a model, using an air brush and it leaves a glass like finish. As long as the dogs dont wander into the area.
My late father in his day use to hand paint coaches and when I started to make wooden signs, he showed me how to polyurethane them. I used to get a mirror finished with about 8 coats, the first coat was thinned, the rest not. I used to to go across, diagonal and finally with the grain wiping my brush of with every wipe. Perfect.
I always thin my 1st coat 50/50 to seal. If wanting to end up with a semi-gloss or satinfinish I layer my 1st coats with high gloss and top coat with the semi-gloss or satin. I believe this won't obscure the wood grain as mush if you just coated with semi-gloss or satin.
something else youre doing that you maybe not be aware of, higher gloss levels boast a harder surface, so if something were to eventually scratch your finished product, its less likely to penetrate the high gloss coat, meaning its fixable without stripping down your entire finish. just fill with new poly, sand the fill down smooth with the previous layer, and repeat your final coat
I found another use for polyurethane and that is over flat latex paint. I made some cabinets for my and because I use working on vehicles as well as woodworking I wanted a cleanable surface. I tried satin polyurethane instead of satin latex paint. I've never liked semi gloss or satin latex paint for durability. It never seems to really dry and it stays somewhat soft. So I shot my finished cabinets with polyurethane. Its been a few years now and finish is holding up well. I can get oil a grease on it and it wipes right off.
Being a professional finisher and owning several thousand dollars in spray equipment with access to I dustrial finishes makes me feel incredibly fortunate when I see what hobbyist finishing entails.
Great video as always. I would like to add a suggestion, if you are going to use satin or simi gloss varnish you should use it only on the last one or two layers. By using gloss to build up layers you will get a deep rich look to the work and not a dull muddy look.
I learned that technique from Steve Ramsey from Working for Mere Mortals. It works great. Try it, you will be pleasantly surprised at the finished product.
@@befmx31 I also would find his tutorial on how to apply ploy. I did not like the way Stumpy brushed it on, he worked it to much, you should not apply it like you paint and that is just what he was doing.
Good work bud, absolutely love your insights. Very helpful for people who are past the beginning stages but have no real clue what we are doing. Cheers mate!
For those beginners I want to add that the fine print on the can of polyurethane advises that while drying time can be a few hours to overnight or so , that cure time can be 15 days and longer. The difference between dry and cure is that you can light sand after drying but in order to use or to to place objects on a finished piece the finish should be allowed to cure. Also there are temperature and humidity considerations that affect drying time which are explained on the can as well.
I just learned that the hard way. My end tables turned out amazing and because a couple days went by and it was dry to the touch we put the lamps on them. It did not take long to leave marks in the surface. Dry and cure dried are two different things for sure.
@@greenpea9412 One of the deficits of our educational system is there is not enough emphasis on “read the fine print” . Going forward, fine print is more important than ever.
"slick as snot"! Now THERE's an expression I haven't heard in a LONG time! We used to say "slicker than snot on a doorknob"! Always enjoy your videos and appreciate how you keep the information simple and EXPLAINED without any silliness or need to entertain like a lot of guys!
Just bought a used dining set I am refinishing and am a little overwhelmed by the information out there. I love your channel. Very easy to follow and informative. Thank you.
Stumpy, I was buying some hardwood from a supplier in my area. While I was there, we started talking about wood turning and finishes. He grabbed a dusty bowl on the shelf and blew off the dust. He said, “If you like shiny finish, use high gloss wipe on poly. Wipe it on wet and keep it wet for a while adding more poly. Keep rubbing until it goes past the sticky stage and it will harden and smooth out”. So, I bought some and followed his advice. Those bowls came out very shiny and smooth. Also, when I took a woodworking class back in the 70’s, the instructor showed us some of his very high gloss projects. He said, if the wood with no finish doesn’t shine, your finish will not be as good as it could be. So, I sand my bowls to 2000 grit and the people that bought them(no matter what finish used) comment on how smooth they are. This is just my opinion though! Keep up the instructive videos! Respectfully, Kevin
Finishing on a lathe is totally different from finishing a piece of furniture. Try "keeping it wet while adding more poly" and "keep rubbing until it goes past the sticky stage" with polyurethane on a stationary surface and let me know how it works :)
No matter what I say it's going to come out wrong probably. As much as these videos are helpful to a lot of people I miss when things were being built. I learned tricks from build videos that the builder didn't mention and might not have been aware that it wasn't something that a lot of woodworkers knew. I bought your plans for the clamp rack but never used it after seeing the last rack you made. I've copied that rack and like it so much more than anything that anybody has made. Thank you for all the videos and links to products.
We have never been a "watch me build this" channel. This channel focuses on specific skills, techniques and shop related content. We build a lot of things in our videos, but we rarely present them as complete project tutorials. This video clip explains it in more detail: ua-cam.com/video/-S9aibzmF3w/v-deo.html
Not trying to sound like a fan boy here, but I really love your content and presentation. Been following for years and it still keeps me interested and informed every time.
My introduction to poly was stressful. I was making a 4x8' turtle habitat out of plywood, and I had some pretty big pieces. Now I know I was fighting myself by doing the finish in the same garage that I was doing the sanding. I had a bear of a time getting the finish to go down without bubbles, and I was using the same product you are, and brushing it too. I wonder if some of the bubbles were dust-caused. I wound up doing MANY applications and sanding in between, and learned just what kind of scratch the finish will tolerate filling in. So it wasn't all a loss. I tried brushing, thinning and wiping, staining pads, and even "brushing" with those weird rectangular pad things that puts down a lot of finish in one swipe. I eventually got it done well enough, but what a learning experience. I wish I had found your videos first, but I probably would have landed in the same predicament, knowing myself.
Glad you mentioned turpentine. I like to use it for thinning poly. I think it gives a better feel. The finish seems to flow on more smoothly. Mineral spirits works just fine, of course. Just my preference.
I've been spraying poly for a few years now and have been very happy with the results. Same prep and between coats procedures in the video. I finish with a final 400 grit wet sand and rub with wool-lube and 0000 steel wool.
I'd add two dont's for the rag: Strong, contrasting colours (unless you like red dots on your pale birch) Very worn out cloths - they are more likely to release a ton of fibres/dust. Painting - one would think that by now I had run out of things to stumble over... But I always find something new.
To slow down drying time in summer, we often add a small amount of "Penetrol". That also helps make brush marks completely disappear. Also... instead of using wet cloths (water or alcohol) on wood to wipe any dust off before painting, we are using "tack cloths". 🤘😎 I love this channel!!!
I spent a lot of years painting professionally I don't think there is many products that I have not used. I appreciate the information you bring to the table. All of it is good solid information. I don't recall you taking about making adjustments to your polyurethane to deal with changes in humidity or heat. you can not always paint in perfect weather so you need to make adjustments to deal with the weather changes. I almost never use polyurethane straight out of the can. I typically thin it a little bit just to get it to level out on the surface a little better, it slows the drying little bit and allows me to dry brush it for a more consistent finish. This will help to keep from scrubbing the finish, better to thin it a bit to get a better finish, I have often started by applying the first coat thin, (wipe on) that way the product sinks deeper into the surface. I think that if you have the time, wipe on is going to give you a better overall finish, yes its a lot more coats but well worth the effort.
Wipe-on poly rocks! It's super easy to get a nice finish. An alternative to mineral spirits for brushing is Penetrol by Flood. First coat is thinned 50/50; subsequent coats are thinned 10%-15%. Penetrol helps the poly or varnish soak into the wood on the first coat and helps with flow and leveling on subsequent coats. That's what I did when I had a sailboat with teak trim and the varnish looked like it had been sprayed onto the wood. Between coats sanding was done with 100 grit paper. It was not too coarse. It also helps to only brush from a dry area into a wet area; never back-and-forth because the brush can leave dents in the wet finish. A few days ago I needed to apply oil based Varathane to a solid core door that was to become a workbench top. I decided to try the forbidden - [gasp!] applying it with a roller. The roller had a soft 1/2" nap. In spite of the warnings on the can, the napped roller did not introduce bubbles. It actually went on better than with a brush. I just dipped some finish out of the can with an unwaxed paper cup and poured it over the door; then spread with the roller. Wrapping the roller with foil between coats let me use one roller for the entire job and then it was allowed to dry and tossed. The finish was not good enough for fine furniture but it was entirely good enough for an interior household door and certainly easier than brushing.
Ah... wonder if the penetrol helped with the roller. I have used it to get a smoother surface on some cheap bookcases I painted (with a small foam roller) and and it definitely improved results to a nice smooth glossy look.
I used to have spare brain cells, well that was before you went and filled them up with all that knowledge about polyurethane finishing. Thanks Stumpy, I've got to go and get a respirator now.
I got one during covid since im in healthcare. Before the n95s came out. Glad i bought a full painters mask face shield. I had to fly a lot at the start of pandemic. A baby had a rancid diaper. Respirators have many uses! Cannot wear those on planes now, that was when it was all essential travel in the whole airplane was empty. Or full of Pilots off work coughing in the empty seats with a red face.
Iv been applying polyurethane for a month with a brush and having bad results, 1 wipe on coat filtered and my mind is absolutely blown how much better it looks. Im doing a 40x72” table and its not very easy with the brush. You the man! Thank you!
I tried rolling it on with a foam sleeve onto a large table top and the results are impressive. Lays very flat and even, much quicker than brushing it on.
I tried a foam roller on some shelves a few months back and it caused a lot of bubbles to form. Ended up having to quickly brush it to get rid of the bubbles.
@@ferrumignis Zar self-leveling polyurethane and a fine foam roller. Zar is the best quality water, oil or oil-modified poly on the market and the easiest to apply without issues. It’s matte poly is by far the easiest. And it’s the only brand of poly you’re ever going to find that won’t amber on white surfaces. A bit more cash, but you get what you pay for. AND you only have to wait a mere two hours (or less, if water based) between coats.
Please consider making a video on how to apply finish to furniture pieces. Especially the inner corners are a pain to finish and sand before next coat.
One thing missing from *every* wipe/brush finishing video, on every channel, is them doing it on an actual project, and not just a flat board. I've been waiting years for someone to actually build some boxes, or whatever that has multiple sides, or curves, or just anything that resembles an actual project, and then finishes them with poly, shellac, etc... by hand. My issues have never been with a flat board, it's when I get to the corner of a box, and need to move to the other side without letting any build on that corner, or to get it around the curve of a two sided object. Basically, UA-cam is crying out for a real world, actual project finishing video... especially on smaller, detailed things, nut just a giant table top and square legs. The only people who seem to show finishing on detailed, real projects, are those just demonstrating their cool, expensive sprayers. How do I poly my boxes without leaving any marks? How do I do a piece that wraps around and has two faces that are vertical? Another video idea is how the heck to appropriately apply glue on projects where you simply cannot get in the space to wipe it off with a wet towel, or get it with a scraper, because it is so tight you already had to pre-finish the inside. I love this channel, and this is a great video... I just always get bummed when another finishing video is just on a flat piece of wood. People, like myself, need real world examples. Not many people are just wiping their poly onto a flat piece of wood, laying down on a bench. We have a project finishes, even just a box, and that is where we are trying to apply the finish. Cheers.
Totally! Even figuring out how to set up a piece for drying correctly can sometimes be a challenge, and I'm sure there are go-to techniques to make this eaiser. (I'm thinking of avoiding dimples with finishing the opposite side, etc)
The general idea if you've got a problematic area is to apply more, thinner coats. Tilting the piece to ensure the working face is as level as possible can also help where possible. As for glue, I've had luck in tight spaces with bamboo skewers. Cut them & sand to a shape that will match the profile of the bit you want to scrape & then run it along there at an angle once the glue has begun to thicken up. It should be at the point where the glue will come up easily & will travel along the skewer a bit so it's easy to remove. If it bunches up then it's too wet, & if the skewer bounces off the surface then it's too dry.
Welcome to the world of a new home construction painter. A library full of cabinets with doors and drawers is a combination of nightmare, masking, and problem solving master class. You have two choices - brush everything or spray everything. I recommend getting good at using a compressed air HVLP process.
If working on a home made project I try to get as much finish on the individual pieces as possible before final assembly. Than do a final coat after it's put together if needed. When refinishing an old piece however I just do one or two sides per day depending on drying time. Yeah it takes much longer but it beats having drippy saggy poly on your finished project.
This is why a wipe on finish rules. Maybe takes more time but a LOT easier and forgiving. I like a 50% poly, 30% thinner, 20% boiled linseed oil. Flood it well initially. After 15 min wipe off excess, buff with 0000 steel wool between well dried coats, final buff out with wax and more 0000 steel wool. Mis dos centavos.
So, I don't rightly know, but I've always heard you shouldn't move the brush back and forth as we see here because it is more likely to make air bubbles in the finish. I've always gone in one direction only, or at least made sure the brush came completely off the work piece before changing direction. I don't know if it actually matters, but it gives results I'm happy with.
Thank you for the video as I'm doing a kitchen bench with live edges for the first time, I want it to look nice and don't want toess it up so your video is greatly helping e with my choices on what to do and use. Thanks again for the very well done video.
Here in New Mexico, it's dry. 8% humidity usually. Polyurethane and tung oil are my preferences. I just dip a shop towel in the can and wipe it on. I use only gloss. If I want a satin finish, I scuff the part, dilute it 50/50, and wipe it thin. The only other finish I use is amber shellac. Those have to be kept out of the sun or they develop "crazing".
I have a trick for finishing porous wood to get a glass smooth finish quicker. Sure, you can use grain fillers but also you can fill the grain pours with finish. Use the full thickness finish and pour some on the work piece then using a flat knife or body filler spreader (Bondo Spreader) and push the finish into the pours while leaving a thin a coat as possible. Sand and repeat if necessary. Or continue with your regular finishing methods. If finishing a stained piece sand very lightly only to get the main bumps down as the finish will be super thin.
Instead of using semi-gloss and satin finishes, just use hi-gloss and buff the final coat with 0000 steel wool. The flattening agents in the other finishes also muddy the grain patterns of that nice beautiful wood with the extra special grain patterns that you spent beaucoup bucks on. If you feel you must use the semi or satin, get yourself a small can of that for your final coat and use hi-gloss underneath it. The sheen will look the same, but you'll see and enjoy the wood a whole lot more.
I’ve got a butcher block island with my kitchen sink! Ive been searching for advise from professionals on the best sealant. They all say food grade oil. But I won’t be prepping food on it. Then they say gloss but I hate, hate, hate the shine. LoL, it’s been over a year with no finish bc I’ve been conflicted about finishes. I really like the idea about starting with a gloss and finishing with an end coat of satin. So glad you commented.
Great advice! I think oil-based poly is far superior to water-based. My favorite type is known as "hard oil", and a great example is Birchwood Casey Tru-Oil. It goes on very thin, flattens well, and is the most scratch-proof poly I have found. Odor-free mineral spirits or paint thinner are great for brushing or spraying. If you're a total savage, you can water sand and polish it for a stunningly smooth, hard finish.
Generally true, waterbased product have come a long way over the last decade or so, and have their place depending on the function of the piece. For a tabletop or similar that will encounter more traffic opting for solvent based is great for durability, but for something like a bookshelf or side table with just a lamp then waterbased can be more than adequate, and in the long term better for you as an applicator if you do a reasonable volume of work, given less VOC exposure. Having said that, there's a lot to be said for plant based oils and wax finishes, which may require more maintainence, but ultimately better
6:50. Also 'dry brush' with thinner coat to flow the highs into the lows, breaks the surface tension of the highs. mix in a touch of finish to slow the thinner flash off. Watch out for pilot lights and other forgotten flame and spark producing equipment.
Brown paper bags from the grocery store - - - I remember those from many decades ago. They had multiple uses beyond the free grocery carrying container the stores used them for (Textbook covers, surface protection, juvenile art projects, costumes of all types, finishing paper for varnish, and much more.) I can even remember when shopping for weekly groceries for a family of six usually averaged to abooout $10 per bag. The good old days. Recently, the only time I have seen brown paper bags in a grocery store, they are packs of lunch bags (much smaller, with less surface roughness.) Some other types of stores still have them, or similar brown paper bags, but they are the exception and scarce. (Ace Hardware for example) The modern blown plastic "t-shirt style" bags are useless unless you can find a place that takes them for recycling. (In my area, both Lowe's and Home Depot have bins for them.) They are also useful (if there are no holes in the bottom) for cat litter and dog droppings.
Yep. No brown paper bags anymore. But, I receive a lot of packages that are filled with crumpled brown paper as a packing material. I save the paper, spread it out flat on the bench, then fold it up to use later. It only takes a few seconds. I'm not sure where I read it, but I recall seeing that the silica in brown paper makes it around 1200 grit !!
I remember my grandmother & mother saving all the butter wrappers during the year to line the cake tins and pudding bowls for the Christmas cooking - back when butter came in paper wrappers not foil or plastic tubs.
@@brucelee3388 You can still get butter sticks wrapped in paper. We get a box of four unsalted about every 2nd time we go to the grocery store. And it still comes from cows, unlike the tubs of margarine (or its original name tthat i remember, oleomargarine (or just oleo.)
Stumpy, I hope you read this. I mixed a new can of mineral spirits with poly for a wipe on finish and it wouldn't dry properly even after a few days. Seems that some of the odorless mineral spirits now contain water. Even though it says on the can it can be used as a paint thinner it definitely didn't work with the poly. I had to strip it all off and start from scratch wasting all my time and effort.
I like to wrap my brushes in plastic wrap or aluminium foil. This works well for rollers if you need to make a run to the hardware store or have lunch. (Sometimes works overnight)
As always, on point! You always present everything in easy to understand, but super thorough detail, that just is so elegant. Even your smooth, even voice makes for easy listening. You sir, are a born teacher! Woodworking is just your side-hustle! :)
Hi Again Stumpy! An imitation Yachtsman? Actually I use a good grade of Oxtail brush for my "oil base" clears. Are you going to do a video on oiling wood with linseed/flax? When building guitars I handsand the neck to 600 then apply all the oil it wants to drink. Repeat after 3 days. After it's dry, use very small bit of talc (not cornstarch) on the neck whenever it is humid. This the absolute slickest finish I have found. The player's skin oils combine with the flax. You can do the same thing to a wood solidbody if the wood is pretty enough. TIP: pour a little bit of thinner into your brush, and knock off drips before first dip. The brush will clean far more easily. Same/same with water and latex/acrylic coatings.
I've never ventured into thinning finishes mainly because I had never been exposed to it. Now that I see the benefits I'll have to give it a try. Something I've found that works VERY well for a smooth streak-free finish is those painting pads you get at home depot. They are rectangular, have a foam backing so they hold a lot of product, and many fine soft bristles so the urethane lays very flat. Take a bit of finesse but the results are fantastic
I agree. They allow you to get a REALLY nice consistent surface. I generally only use them for water base though, as it is easy to clean them with lots of water. But for a table top, they leave a GREAT surface. I have some great brushes that can give that finish, but, those brushes are expensive. Sure, spraying is the best, but when I don't want to get out a sprayer, and don't have a spray booth, then those pads are great.
are these like the ones that you use as an edger when you paint walls (or that is what they are sold for... I don't use them for that because they smear paint VERY smooth, as you mentioned)
I use a 10 inch flooring finish applicator for furniture (the foam kind not lambskin) it is very quick and easy to leave straight even coats with it for any flat surface.
Very informative and clear. Eventhough it could give the wood an uneven finish thickness, what about spraying the PU ? Is it worth ? When working with large panels of plywood (intended for kitchen cabinets), hand finishing would take a infinite amount of time.
5:20 I'm looking forward to use a water-based varnish (namely Saman's). After sanding and before applying the varnish, should I clean the wood with Mineral Spirits, or just water?
Nice vid 1. I wipe on my first finish with a 50/50 mix 2. I wipe on my second finish with a 75/25 mix after a very lite sand 3. I wipe my third finish with 100% poly after a very lite sand 4. I brush on my 4th, 5th, and 6th finished (Based on application)
Wiping method is especially useful on items with a lot of "joints" like chairs, things with spindles, shelving units, etc. Brushing and keeping a wet edge is tough when you have something like a chair with 10 back spindles. Bob Flexner also calls it a very foolproof method.
Thank you for informative video. I looked on line for toxicity of Poly before and I didn't remember any permanent damage from Poly. So your video concerned me a bit and so I did another search and the two websites said that Poly is relatively safe. The amount of VOCs released during a typical application is too low to produce harmful effects. You would need concentrated long term exposure to get permanent health damage. This does not occur even during industrial applications. You can get lung irritation, headaches, dizziness, nausea, asthmatic attacks but these are temporary. I do believe that a respirator is necessary to avoid these symptoms, but I don't think you lose brain cells from Poly. Brain cell losses could be from something else. ;)
so glad you used a real brush not those darn foam things. i tried a foam brush once and it was impossible to lay the poly on evenly. i guess people just don't know how to clean a brush properly. a 1/4 cup of thinners at most is all you need for a perfectly clean brush that size. and really only takes a couple of minutes. i am still using the same high quality brush after over 20 years of use.
I always use the foam brushes and never have any issues with them. Of course I'm only an amatuer/beginner, but I've used both water and oil based polys and no one's ever said the finish was uneven. (and I do know how to clean a brush, I just prefer not to)
As a painter for over 40 years. When you remove the brush from the shuck..spend a minute to pluck any new bristles, so they won't come off on your project or in the can
Another good way to get a slick factory looking finish is do 2 or 3 coats just like he shows here and after prepping the last coat with sandpaper. Get a can of the Minwax spray polyurethane and spray everything. You do not have to sand between coats or wait for it to completely dry. Fact you're not supposed to let it completely dry between coats. After you spray a coat wait 5 to 10 minutes and spray it again. You can just keep doing this until you run out of product. The spray stuff is kind of thin to use on its own but it is great for a top coating over the brush on stuff. There is another brand of this product that is not worth a crap so don't use it and stick with minwax aerosol.
Great tips. One thing not mentioned is the primary reason/benefit of thinning i.e. the reduction or elimination of bubbles that form in unthinned poly.
don't know if I missed it or so, but the wipe on has some other advantages, for all kinds of finishes. first, it can penetrate deeper. it also follows the wood structure better and doesn't "pool up" in little dents and divets. this can be a benefit if you have some mix of sanded and structured wood surface. similar for surfaces with very varying grain structure where one soaks up about everything, its easier to work with using thinned out. you can experiment and also brush on thinned and wipe off etc.
Wrapping up a brush with oil base does not work like with water based products, but there is a way to preserve your brush with oil base. Wrap the brush with aluminum foil and put it in a container of water. This will keep it soft for a long time. When you're ready to start putting your finish on again just go to a safe place and whip the brush hard and sling the water out of it. The oil based product will not mix with water at all so it's not a problem.
Hi i am wanting to apply poly over a red oak staircase i have sanded it down and it used to have a amber tint to it what poly are you using that gives it that nice amber colour thanks Paul
If you want a stain finish that absolutely glows, this is what to do. Never use poly with colour added that just always looks trashy. Never apply stain directly to wood as it soaks into the end grain more, grain is not straight with the surface but waves up and down which leads to very uneven colour absorption which looks blotchy and unnatural. Instead: Once all the bare timber sanding is done, apply 2 coats of sanding sealer without sanding between coats. This is a clear finish that has a filler added so that it fills the grain. This is especially important for timers that have a hardwood grain structure. That does not necessarily mean a hard dense timber, but a mixture of large and fine vessels in the timber. It is unusual to have a light low density hardwood but it happens, Balsa for example has a hardwood structure. Softwoods have a uniform fine grain structure. Examples of hard dense softwoods are those used for flute making, like African blackwood & Jacaranda. Anyway, no more than 2 coats, then sand lightly & clean off. It is very important to only sand lightly so that sanding does not affect the consistency of then stain colour & all end grain is completely sealed. Then you are ready to apply the stain, you can rub that on with a cloth. If desired, you can do a darker stain with a dry course cloth so that goes on in streaks that resemble grain variation, this is particularly good if the actual timber is not figured. When dry, apply finishing coats of poly. the classiest most glowing timber finishes I have ever seen were done this way.
@@pinarppanrapir9489 Not necessarily, it holds true for PU varnish finishes as well IME. If you varnish straight on the timber, you get grain print through for many many coats, especially hardwoods. The sanding sealer gets that dealt with in just 2 coats. So you need far fewer coats which is a lot faster to get a glass finish. The main takeaway though is seal the grain before staining.
@@NeedsMoreToys I am using Feast Watson & I'm staining on top of the sealer. I do some tests to adjust the stain accordingly, I haven't taken particular notice of light amber colouring with the woods I use. I'd probably consider that beneficial unless working with something pale like Huon Pine. I am more than happy with the results. All turps based Polyurethanes (PU) tend to yellow with age, while water based PU are reported not to do so. However I haven't used the latter as yet.
I thin oil base poly for my first brushed on coat on bare wood. This allows the poly to penetrate the surface and provide a sealing base for the next coats. Then the next brushed coats are full poly thickness. I lightly rub 0000 steel wool after each coat is dry to level the surface. I then wipe the surface down with light mineral spirits on a rag before the next coat. I prefer to brush on poly rather than wipe on poly. Just my preference.
Great video refresher, thank you. However, you mentioned this was great for indoor (agreed) and some outdoor projects. I am currently making some small Cedar wooden signs for the outside. Will this be a good application for that project? Thank you
Love your videos. I bought a used kitchen table with an old dilapidated finish. I applied EZ Strip paint & varnish stripper, scraped it all off, cleaned with TSP and water then after drying went at it with an orbital sander then hand sanded to a 180 finish. Vacuumed and tack clothed very smooth and clean. Don't know the species of the wood veneer. Applied 3 coats of Varathane oil based Classic penetrating wood stain, (Ebony). It barely took any more stain on the 3rd pass. Once dry it looked and felt fabulous. Wish I could have left it like that. I then brushed on Varathane oil based Professional Premium Clear Finish 1200 Matte also in 3 coats. Firstly, nowhere on the can does it say polyurethane or urethane. Can you tell me what this top coat is? More importantly, with each successive coat the finish got worse. I doubled the time between coats. They say 3-4 hours and I went 8 or more. I had to sand as it appears there are hundreds if not thousands of little buggers less than 1mm but so noticeable to both the eye and feel. My garage is as clean as I can get it and I do not blow the dust off but vacuum instead followed by tack cloth. I this the 3rd coat with mineral spirits and the 3rd coat is worst of all. What have I done wrong. BTW, I did not shake the can, only stirred and the final coat I used a separate clean container so I could add some mineral spirits. 4:1 top coat to thinner. At this point I want to throw out 20 hours of work. Please help.
I did oil based stain on small section of dining table then applied one thin coat of Minwax spar urethane. After coat is dry for 24hr. Then I used 320 grit sandpaper to buff it before going for second coat. Problem is sandpaper has left scratchy marks and lines although surface feels very smooth. Did I misstep anything? How can the sandpaper scratches be removed?
Hi - Wow you are comprehensive - I am newbie - q1.is denatured alcohol good to wipe down ANY wooden surface before applying ANY type of finish q2. how much importance to you rate ensuring ALL dust particles are off the surface - if so - is that why you use denatured alcohol or does it also do some other purpose Sorry I hope you did not get lost with questions - I all over the place here
Here in CO, our ambient humidity will end up being around 15% for a lot of fall winter and spring. If you are like me, you'll need to thin every finish at least a bit. it is very difficult to brush on water based finishes here.
Lol, i just thin out the full can with how much fits into the can shake it and start spreading it with diy brush made from folding this random roll of cleaning rags, thin synthetic sheets of cloth basically. Do the how many coats i need with pretty thick layers, then give it a sand with 380 grit and get proper brush to finish the surfaces with final coat or use spray gun. Since i use cheapest brushes around i wont clean them, but instead try to use brush end to put on the final coat, let it dry, cut out the hardened part and use the rest in some early layer or just paint jobs. If you have poly thin enough that it runs properly it will level it self out pretty well. If i make anything fancies then its the spray gun for final layer, though i should probably try that wipe on poly sometimes, might be less messy and give better results.
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Lite mask link doesnt seem to work for me.
@@DestroManiak Same
Hi! thanks for the video! Do you have a link for a video on applying water based polyurethane?
Do you have a video done for water based? When to use water based versus oil based?
I'm going to put my 2 cents worth in here and a lot of you will probably not agree with me but please hear me out before pooh-poohing my statements. I've been finishing bare wood for more than 40 years - cabinets, furniture, floors, and a lot of custom high-dollar rifle, shotgun, and pistol stocks. The one thing I know to be true when staining and varnishing wood is the more you sand the more grain you will see, Now, let me clarify this statement - I start with 150 grit paper then move to 220 grit - just as most people do. But if you really want to have eye-popping grain and super smooth finishes then you need to take it further. After the 220 grit I move to 320, 400, then 600 grit. I always do the 220, 320, 400, and 600 grits by hand - NEVER with a machine. Waste of time? Not hardly, I've tested this process and there is definitely a huge difference in grain appearance and the smoothness of the final finish. It's the proverbial "night-and-day" type of thing. Once of my most cherished pieces is a dining room table made of birch and stained a dark ebony to get a Japanese "black lacquer" appearance. This table has such a deep and lustrous appearance that you'd think I spent days and days rubbing and polishing it. Actually, after sanding to 600 grit and staining, I put 3 coats of Minwax Gloss Polyurethane - sanding with 600 grit after the first coat then using 0000 steel wool after the second coat. The results were outstanding. Super high gloss but you can still see the wonderful grain showing though. So take it from me - sand, sand, sand if you want a truly unique finish.
Nice description thx :-) in many places I often hear that going beyond 320 can cause issues with wood accepting stain uniformly. Have you experienced this? Cheers
@@veguitars
Only 'natural' finishes are problematic with finely sanded wood. (Hard wax oil, Tung oil, etc)
Synthetic finishes - Sprayable varnish, Acrylic, PU top coat have zero adhesion issues even with 2000 grit sanded panels. After all, these finishes are the most widely used kind of finishing for automotive paint! (2000 grit sanding is more or less a mandate here 😜)
@@veguitarsI would sand to 220 or 320 then stain and then go maybe 400 or 600 between stain coats and finish coats
I agree I have always gone to 600 even higher sometimes and it comes out really nice with a good finish
@veguitars the trouble accepting stain comes from the wood grain becoming packed with fine sawdust from high grit sanding. By sanding with the grain by hand, the sawdust is cleared out of the channels allowing stain to penetrate evenly.
Prime your brush with mineral spirits (or water for water based) and shake it out before that first dip into the poly. It will clean up easier and last much longer. Love the sports bottle trick.
Also helps eliminate bubbles.
Great point, JA! Another tip is to use a prick punch to make holes in the rim groove for the lid, so that most of the excess will drain back into the can. As the can's content gets used, lumps of dried and hardened finish will prevent proper sealing.
That was I was going to say. I usually forget until I have already dipped the brush 🙃
@@jageo48 If it's expensive paint or finish I'll actually pour it off into a fresh can if I'm trying to preserve it for future use. But yeah this is a great idea to save the fuss.
@@Mainbusfail Thanks. I'm actually a hack woodworker but love this channel and hope to set up a real shop someday. But my dad sold ultra high-end paint and brushes (fine art stuff) back in the 50's and 60's and it was the one real life hack he taught me. Don't skimp on brushes and keep them clean and they will last decades. It's proven to be true.
I used to spray in an industrial setting shooting oil based paint all day. My favorite mask was the blue Belcamp masks from NAPA automotive supply stores.. I don't know if they're still available, but they were less expensive than 3M, had a MUCH better fit and seal. Now I have a 3M just because I don't need it nearly as often.
If you're spraying a lot, and by a lot I mean upwards of 50 or so gallons a week you should get a fresh air supply system that covers your entire body because you will absorb the solvents into your skin and will probably eventually wake up completely numb from your knees and elbows down to fingers and toes like I did.. I wear a mask no matter what I spray, no matter how much time I might be exposed. I had to learn the hard way when companies didn't care and neither did OSHA ..
Great GREAT advice. One thing I just can't get through to kids is how that stuff builds up, even if you're using an aerosol once in a while. Of course, being young they're "bullet proof" and it's just not "cool" to be careful! I'm with you - I wear a mask every single time I spray. It really isn't worth gambling with your health. At the end of the day, that's ALL you have!
👍👍
@@Zzrdemon6633 I was applying for a cabinetmaking job a few years back when I met an older lady who was their main finisher. You could tell that when she was younger, she'd be an easy 8.5-9/10. I thought for sure she was 45+.
Nope. asked my buddy who worked there. She was 32. 32! She smoked and sprayed all day.
Aw man, sorry to hear that. I have peripheral neuropathy as well (for other reasons) and it's not exactly fun.
I’m in this one, too. Yes. Always wear a full-face respirator and body suit. No matter what you’re spraying, waterborne or solvent-based. When I suit up to shoot 2K solvent-based polyurethane, I can’t smell a thing; if you smell the solvent, it means you’re not completely protected. And, as every finisher knows, this stuff (especially the catalyst) is really nasty for your health. So, take the right precautions, and enjoy the aesthetics-and superior durability-of a spray-on finish!
Once you’ve mastered the gun, you’ll never trade it in for anything else.
I'm a paid professional. I've made hundreds of pieces of furniture. I pay to live by doing it. And it's amazing how much I still have to learn. Thank you for being such an amazing place to learn from. One day I'd love to be your "competition" here on the tube. But that is out of admiration.
Life is about continuing to learn!
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@@youtubingbabsoh, are you also from Fort Lauderdale?
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A tip I got from one of my co workers a few years back in relation to the final coat of varnish. It works best when you are working on a flat surface, ie. you have a door on trestles or a bench. As your varnish is getting tacky, spray a fine mist using a trigger spray bottle, from above of whatever the recommended thinner medium for your product is. It doesn't take much, but it evens out the surface of the coating. I tried it on my new oak panel doors and they looked like they had been factory pre finished. Try it on some off cuts, it will cost nothing but a spray bottle and varnish.
Keep those videos coming.
To be clear, are you saying to use thinner only in the spray bottle? Thanks in advance.
@@williambranham6249 Yes William, whatever your chosen varnish suggests for thinning. Get the mist as fine as you can and hold it at extended arms height. White spirit as we call it here for oil based varnish. I've used the same procedure to finish gloss lacquer on the final coat on a model, using an air brush and it leaves a glass like finish. As long as the dogs dont wander into the area.
@@loki7441 Thank you! USA
@@williambranham6249 Good tips should be spread to those who will make use and appreciate them. Hope it works for you.
Terrific presenter .
Clear,articulate.
Knowledgeable .
My late father in his day use to hand paint coaches and when I started to make wooden signs, he showed me how to polyurethane them. I used to get a mirror finished with about 8 coats, the first coat was thinned, the rest not. I used to to go across, diagonal and finally with the grain wiping my brush of with every wipe. Perfect.
I always thin my 1st coat 50/50 to seal. If wanting to end up with a semi-gloss or satinfinish I layer my 1st coats with high gloss and top coat with the semi-gloss or satin. I believe this won't obscure the wood grain as mush if you just coated with semi-gloss or satin.
something else youre doing that you maybe not be aware of, higher gloss levels boast a harder surface, so if something were to eventually scratch your finished product, its less likely to penetrate the high gloss coat, meaning its fixable without stripping down your entire finish. just fill with new poly, sand the fill down smooth with the previous layer, and repeat your final coat
I found another use for polyurethane and that is over flat latex paint. I made some cabinets for my and because I use working on vehicles as well as woodworking I wanted a cleanable surface. I tried satin polyurethane instead of satin latex paint. I've never liked semi gloss or satin latex paint for durability. It never seems to really dry and it stays somewhat soft. So I shot my finished cabinets with polyurethane. Its been a few years now and finish is holding up well. I can get oil a grease on it and it wipes right off.
Oil based poly?
@@robertnichols917 You want to use water base, the oil base will yellow light color finishes especially white.
Being a professional finisher and owning several thousand dollars in spray equipment with access to I dustrial finishes makes me feel incredibly fortunate when I see what hobbyist finishing entails.
r/iamverybadass
Great video as always. I would like to add a suggestion, if you are going to use satin or simi gloss varnish you should use it only on the last one or two layers. By using gloss to build up layers you will get a deep rich look to the work and not a dull muddy look.
don't you jut love the fact you pay more for gloss when it has less in it than satin.
@@TaylerMade Yeah, agree....but perhaps that is because you are replacing cheap flattening agents with relatively more expensive urethane?
Never heard the "brown paper bag" trick before. Good tip. I'll try that on my next varnish finish.
I learned that technique from Steve Ramsey from Working for Mere Mortals. It works great. Try it, you will be pleasantly surprised at the finished product.
@@befmx31 I also would find his tutorial on how to apply ploy. I did not like the way Stumpy brushed it on, he worked it to much, you should not apply it like you paint and that is just what he was doing.
Good work bud, absolutely love your insights. Very helpful for people who are past the beginning stages but have no real clue what we are doing. Cheers mate!
For those beginners I want to add that the fine print on the can of polyurethane advises that while drying time can be a few hours to overnight or so , that cure time can be 15 days and longer. The difference between dry and cure is that you can light sand after drying but in order to use or to to place objects on a finished piece the finish should be allowed to cure. Also there are temperature and humidity considerations that affect drying time which are explained on the can as well.
I just learned that the hard way. My end tables turned out amazing and because a couple days went by and it was dry to the touch we put the lamps on them. It did not take long to leave marks in the surface. Dry and cure dried are two different things for sure.
@@greenpea9412 One of the deficits of our educational system is there is not enough emphasis on “read the fine print” . Going forward, fine print is more important than ever.
"slick as snot"! Now THERE's an expression I haven't heard in a LONG time! We used to say "slicker than snot on a doorknob"! Always enjoy your videos and appreciate how you keep the information simple and EXPLAINED without any silliness or need to entertain like a lot of guys!
Another saying is “slicker than owl poop on a wet limb “.
We would say, “ slicker than snot on a brass doorknob”
Just bought a used dining set I am refinishing and am a little overwhelmed by the information out there. I love your channel. Very easy to follow and informative. Thank you.
Stumpy, I was buying some hardwood from a supplier in my area. While I was there, we started talking about wood turning and finishes. He grabbed a dusty bowl on the shelf and blew off the dust. He said, “If you like shiny finish, use high gloss wipe on poly. Wipe it on wet and keep it wet for a while adding more poly. Keep rubbing until it goes past the sticky stage and it will harden and smooth out”. So, I bought some and followed his advice. Those bowls came out very shiny and smooth. Also, when I took a woodworking class back in the 70’s, the instructor showed us some of his very high gloss projects. He said, if the wood with no finish doesn’t shine, your finish will not be as good as it could be. So, I sand my bowls to 2000 grit and the people that bought them(no matter what finish used) comment on how smooth they are. This is just my opinion though! Keep up the instructive videos! Respectfully, Kevin
Finishing on a lathe is totally different from finishing a piece of furniture. Try "keeping it wet while adding more poly" and "keep rubbing until it goes past the sticky stage" with polyurethane on a stationary surface and let me know how it works :)
No matter what I say it's going to come out wrong probably. As much as these videos are helpful to a lot of people I miss when things were being built. I learned tricks from build videos that the builder didn't mention and might not have been aware that it wasn't something that a lot of woodworkers knew. I bought your plans for the clamp rack but never used it after seeing the last rack you made. I've copied that rack and like it so much more than anything that anybody has made. Thank you for all the videos and links to products.
We have never been a "watch me build this" channel. This channel focuses on specific skills, techniques and shop related content. We build a lot of things in our videos, but we rarely present them as complete project tutorials. This video clip explains it in more detail: ua-cam.com/video/-S9aibzmF3w/v-deo.html
Not trying to sound like a fan boy here, but I really love your content and presentation. Been following for years and it still keeps me interested and informed every time.
My introduction to poly was stressful. I was making a 4x8' turtle habitat out of plywood, and I had some pretty big pieces. Now I know I was fighting myself by doing the finish in the same garage that I was doing the sanding. I had a bear of a time getting the finish to go down without bubbles, and I was using the same product you are, and brushing it too. I wonder if some of the bubbles were dust-caused. I wound up doing MANY applications and sanding in between, and learned just what kind of scratch the finish will tolerate filling in. So it wasn't all a loss. I tried brushing, thinning and wiping, staining pads, and even "brushing" with those weird rectangular pad things that puts down a lot of finish in one swipe. I eventually got it done well enough, but what a learning experience. I wish I had found your videos first, but I probably would have landed in the same predicament, knowing myself.
Glad you mentioned turpentine. I like to use it for thinning poly. I think it gives a better feel. The finish seems to flow on more smoothly. Mineral spirits works just fine, of course. Just my preference.
I've been spraying poly for a few years now and have been very happy with the results. Same prep and between coats procedures in the video. I finish with a final 400 grit wet sand and rub with wool-lube and 0000 steel wool.
Oil based or water?
I'd add two dont's for the rag:
Strong, contrasting colours (unless you like red dots on your pale birch)
Very worn out cloths - they are more likely to release a ton of fibres/dust.
Painting - one would think that by now I had run out of things to stumble over... But I always find something new.
To slow down drying time in summer, we often add a small amount of "Penetrol". That also helps make brush marks completely disappear.
Also... instead of using wet cloths (water or alcohol) on wood to wipe any dust off before painting, we are using "tack cloths".
🤘😎 I love this channel!!!
I spent a lot of years painting professionally I don't think there is many products that I have not used. I appreciate the information you bring to the table. All of it is good solid information. I don't recall you taking about making adjustments to your polyurethane to deal with changes in humidity or heat. you can not always paint in perfect weather so you need to make adjustments to deal with the weather changes. I almost never use polyurethane straight out of the can. I typically thin it a little bit just to get it to level out on the surface a little better, it slows the drying little bit and allows me to dry brush it for a more consistent finish. This will help to keep from scrubbing the finish, better to thin it a bit to get a better finish, I have often started by applying the first coat thin, (wipe on) that way the product sinks deeper into the surface. I think that if you have the time, wipe on is going to give you a better overall finish, yes its a lot more coats but well worth the effort.
Wipe-on poly rocks! It's super easy to get a nice finish.
An alternative to mineral spirits for brushing is Penetrol by Flood. First coat is thinned 50/50; subsequent coats are thinned 10%-15%. Penetrol helps the poly or varnish soak into the wood on the first coat and helps with flow and leveling on subsequent coats. That's what I did when I had a sailboat with teak trim and the varnish looked like it had been sprayed onto the wood. Between coats sanding was done with 100 grit paper. It was not too coarse. It also helps to only brush from a dry area into a wet area; never back-and-forth because the brush can leave dents in the wet finish.
A few days ago I needed to apply oil based Varathane to a solid core door that was to become a workbench top. I decided to try the forbidden - [gasp!] applying it with a roller. The roller had a soft 1/2" nap. In spite of the warnings on the can, the napped roller did not introduce bubbles. It actually went on better than with a brush. I just dipped some finish out of the can with an unwaxed paper cup and poured it over the door; then spread with the roller. Wrapping the roller with foil between coats let me use one roller for the entire job and then it was allowed to dry and tossed. The finish was not good enough for fine furniture but it was entirely good enough for an interior household door and certainly easier than brushing.
Ah... wonder if the penetrol helped with the roller. I have used it to get a smoother surface on some cheap bookcases I painted (with a small foam roller) and and it definitely improved results to a nice smooth glossy look.
Love how you used just the tip with long, light strokes. Came out nice!
I’ve used old crumpled grocery bags between coats to knock down nibs. Very nice video, thanks.
I used to have spare brain cells, well that was before you went and filled them up with all that knowledge about polyurethane finishing. Thanks Stumpy, I've got to go and get a respirator now.
I got one during covid since im in healthcare. Before the n95s came out. Glad i bought a full painters mask face shield. I had to fly a lot at the start of pandemic. A baby had a rancid diaper. Respirators have many uses! Cannot wear those on planes now, that was when it was all essential travel in the whole airplane was empty. Or full of Pilots off work coughing in the empty seats with a red face.
Iv been applying polyurethane for a month with a brush and having bad results, 1 wipe on coat filtered and my mind is absolutely blown how much better it looks. Im doing a 40x72” table and its not very easy with the brush. You the man! Thank you!
Light sanding between coats makes a big difference too
Slick as snot! I like that. Good video, James.
So did you make a water based one yet? Can't seem to find it on your channel
If I'm applying this to my floors the 50 50 mix could I use a roller or sponge mop and get away with it? 😅
Thanks for being very informative and concise with the information. You’re my go to for woodworking advice!
I tried rolling it on with a foam sleeve onto a large table top and the results are impressive. Lays very flat and even, much quicker than brushing it on.
I tried a foam roller on some shelves a few months back and it caused a lot of bubbles to form. Ended up having to quickly brush it to get rid of the bubbles.
@@ferrumignis Zar self-leveling polyurethane and a fine foam roller. Zar is the best quality water, oil or oil-modified poly on the market and the easiest to apply without issues. It’s matte poly is by far the easiest. And it’s the only brand of poly you’re ever going to find that won’t amber on white surfaces. A bit more cash, but you get what you pay for. AND you only have to wait a mere two hours (or less, if water based) between coats.
@@scottmassino3051 Thanks for the tip!
Please consider making a video on how to apply finish to furniture pieces. Especially the inner corners are a pain to finish and sand before next coat.
One thing missing from *every* wipe/brush finishing video, on every channel, is them doing it on an actual project, and not just a flat board. I've been waiting years for someone to actually build some boxes, or whatever that has multiple sides, or curves, or just anything that resembles an actual project, and then finishes them with poly, shellac, etc... by hand. My issues have never been with a flat board, it's when I get to the corner of a box, and need to move to the other side without letting any build on that corner, or to get it around the curve of a two sided object. Basically, UA-cam is crying out for a real world, actual project finishing video... especially on smaller, detailed things, nut just a giant table top and square legs. The only people who seem to show finishing on detailed, real projects, are those just demonstrating their cool, expensive sprayers. How do I poly my boxes without leaving any marks? How do I do a piece that wraps around and has two faces that are vertical?
Another video idea is how the heck to appropriately apply glue on projects where you simply cannot get in the space to wipe it off with a wet towel, or get it with a scraper, because it is so tight you already had to pre-finish the inside.
I love this channel, and this is a great video... I just always get bummed when another finishing video is just on a flat piece of wood. People, like myself, need real world examples. Not many people are just wiping their poly onto a flat piece of wood, laying down on a bench. We have a project finishes, even just a box, and that is where we are trying to apply the finish.
Cheers.
Totally! Even figuring out how to set up a piece for drying correctly can sometimes be a challenge, and I'm sure there are go-to techniques to make this eaiser. (I'm thinking of avoiding dimples with finishing the opposite side, etc)
The general idea if you've got a problematic area is to apply more, thinner coats. Tilting the piece to ensure the working face is as level as possible can also help where possible.
As for glue, I've had luck in tight spaces with bamboo skewers. Cut them & sand to a shape that will match the profile of the bit you want to scrape & then run it along there at an angle once the glue has begun to thicken up. It should be at the point where the glue will come up easily & will travel along the skewer a bit so it's easy to remove. If it bunches up then it's too wet, & if the skewer bounces off the surface then it's too dry.
Welcome to the world of a new home construction painter. A library full of cabinets with doors and drawers is a combination of nightmare, masking, and problem solving master class. You have two choices - brush everything or spray everything. I recommend getting good at using a compressed air HVLP process.
If working on a home made project I try to get as much finish on the individual pieces as possible before final assembly. Than do a final coat after it's put together if needed.
When refinishing an old piece however I just do one or two sides per day depending on drying time. Yeah it takes much longer but it beats having drippy saggy poly on your finished project.
This is why a wipe on finish rules. Maybe takes more time but a LOT easier and forgiving. I like a 50% poly, 30% thinner, 20% boiled linseed oil. Flood it well initially. After 15 min wipe off excess, buff with 0000 steel wool between well dried coats, final buff out with wax and more 0000 steel wool. Mis dos centavos.
So, I don't rightly know, but I've always heard you shouldn't move the brush back and forth as we see here because it is more likely to make air bubbles in the finish. I've always gone in one direction only, or at least made sure the brush came completely off the work piece before changing direction. I don't know if it actually matters, but it gives results I'm happy with.
Thank you for the video as I'm doing a kitchen bench with live edges for the first time, I want it to look nice and don't want toess it up so your video is greatly helping e with my choices on what to do and use. Thanks again for the very well done video.
Excellent video - great advise from a craftsman.
The Stumpster dropping QUALITY KNOWLEDGE for us all to soak up, like the wood does with that thinned out Poly. 😀👍
Here in New Mexico, it's dry. 8% humidity usually. Polyurethane and tung oil are my preferences.
I just dip a shop towel in the can and wipe it on. I use only gloss. If I want a satin finish, I scuff the part, dilute it 50/50, and wipe it thin.
The only other finish I use is amber shellac. Those have to be kept out of the sun or they develop "crazing".
I have a trick for finishing porous wood to get a glass smooth finish quicker. Sure, you can use grain fillers but also you can fill the grain pours with finish. Use the full thickness finish and pour some on the work piece then using a flat knife or body filler spreader (Bondo Spreader) and push the finish into the pours while leaving a thin a coat as possible. Sand and repeat if necessary. Or continue with your regular finishing methods. If finishing a stained piece sand very lightly only to get the main bumps down as the finish will be super thin.
Instead of using semi-gloss and satin finishes, just use hi-gloss and buff the final coat with 0000 steel wool. The flattening agents in the other finishes also muddy the grain patterns of that nice beautiful wood with the extra special grain patterns that you spent beaucoup bucks on. If you feel you must use the semi or satin, get yourself a small can of that for your final coat and use hi-gloss underneath it. The sheen will look the same, but you'll see and enjoy the wood a whole lot more.
I've used pumice and/or rottenstone (mixed with water to form a paste) to buff out the final coat of gloss. Worked well for me.
I’ve got a butcher block island with my kitchen sink! Ive been searching for advise from professionals on the best sealant. They all say food grade oil. But I won’t be prepping food on it. Then they say gloss but I hate, hate, hate the shine. LoL, it’s been over a year with no finish bc I’ve been conflicted about finishes. I really like the idea about starting with a gloss and finishing with an end coat of satin. So glad you commented.
Great advice! I think oil-based poly is far superior to water-based. My favorite type is known as "hard oil", and a great example is Birchwood Casey Tru-Oil. It goes on very thin, flattens well, and is the most scratch-proof poly I have found. Odor-free mineral spirits or paint thinner are great for brushing or spraying. If you're a total savage, you can water sand and polish it for a stunningly smooth, hard finish.
Generally true, waterbased product have come a long way over the last decade or so, and have their place depending on the function of the piece. For a tabletop or similar that will encounter more traffic opting for solvent based is great for durability, but for something like a bookshelf or side table with just a lamp then waterbased can be more than adequate, and in the long term better for you as an applicator if you do a reasonable volume of work, given less VOC exposure. Having said that, there's a lot to be said for plant based oils and wax finishes, which may require more maintainence, but ultimately better
6:50. Also 'dry brush' with thinner coat to flow the highs into the lows, breaks the surface tension of the highs. mix in a touch of finish to slow the thinner flash off. Watch out for pilot lights and other forgotten flame and spark producing equipment.
Brown paper bags from the grocery store - - - I remember those from many decades ago. They had multiple uses beyond the free grocery carrying container the stores used them for (Textbook covers, surface protection, juvenile art projects, costumes of all types, finishing paper for varnish, and much more.) I can even remember when shopping for weekly groceries for a family of six usually averaged to abooout $10 per bag. The good old days. Recently, the only time I have seen brown paper bags in a grocery store, they are packs of lunch bags (much smaller, with less surface roughness.) Some other types of stores still have them, or similar brown paper bags, but they are the exception and scarce. (Ace Hardware for example)
The modern blown plastic "t-shirt style" bags are useless unless you can find a place that takes them for recycling. (In my area, both Lowe's and Home Depot have bins for them.) They are also useful (if there are no holes in the bottom) for cat litter and dog droppings.
Yep. No brown paper bags anymore. But, I receive a lot of packages that are filled with crumpled brown paper as a packing material. I save the paper, spread it out flat on the bench, then fold it up to use later. It only takes a few seconds. I'm not sure where I read it, but I recall seeing that the silica in brown paper makes it around 1200 grit !!
One more EXTREMELY important use of the brown paper bag.....lining your cake pan in order to bake fruit cakes!!!!! Whose with me????
I remember my grandmother & mother saving all the butter wrappers during the year to line the cake tins and pudding bowls for the Christmas cooking - back when butter came in paper wrappers not foil or plastic tubs.
@@brucelee3388 You can still get butter sticks wrapped in paper. We get a box of four unsalted about every 2nd time we go to the grocery store. And it still comes from cows, unlike the tubs of margarine (or its original name tthat i remember, oleomargarine (or just oleo.)
Stumpy, I hope you read this.
I mixed a new can of mineral spirits with poly for a wipe on finish and it wouldn't dry properly even after a few days. Seems that some of the odorless mineral spirits now contain water. Even though it says on the can it can be used as a paint thinner it definitely didn't work with the poly. I had to strip it all off and start from scratch wasting all my time and effort.
Agreed. The problem is the formulation of the Odorless Mineral Spirits.
Amazing, easy to understand, well thought-out tutorial. Thank you! ❤
did you ever wind up making a video about water based poly? I can't find it on your channel
I like to wrap my brushes in plastic wrap or aluminium foil. This works well for rollers if you need to make a run to the hardware store or have lunch. (Sometimes works overnight)
Woodworking is like life - it's not how you start, it's how you finish!
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😄
As always, on point! You always present everything in easy to understand, but super thorough detail, that just is so elegant. Even your smooth, even voice makes for easy listening. You sir, are a born teacher! Woodworking is just your side-hustle! :)
Hi Again Stumpy! An imitation Yachtsman? Actually I use a good grade of Oxtail brush for my "oil base" clears. Are you going to do a video on oiling wood with linseed/flax?
When building guitars I handsand the neck to 600 then apply all the oil it wants to drink. Repeat after 3 days. After it's dry, use very small bit of talc (not cornstarch) on the neck whenever it is humid. This the absolute slickest finish I have found. The player's skin oils combine with the flax. You can do the same thing to a wood solidbody if the wood is pretty enough.
TIP: pour a little bit of thinner into your brush, and knock off drips before first dip. The brush will clean far more easily. Same/same with water and latex/acrylic coatings.
A very helpful, well-presented video. Thank you from a first-time crokinole board maker. 🏴
Always the right way to do it.
I've never ventured into thinning finishes mainly because I had never been exposed to it. Now that I see the benefits I'll have to give it a try.
Something I've found that works VERY well for a smooth streak-free finish is those painting pads you get at home depot. They are rectangular, have a foam backing so they hold a lot of product, and many fine soft bristles so the urethane lays very flat. Take a bit of finesse but the results are fantastic
I agree. They allow you to get a REALLY nice consistent surface. I generally only use them for water base though, as it is easy to clean them with lots of water. But for a table top, they leave a GREAT surface. I have some great brushes that can give that finish, but, those brushes are expensive. Sure, spraying is the best, but when I don't want to get out a sprayer, and don't have a spray booth, then those pads are great.
are these like the ones that you use as an edger when you paint walls (or that is what they are sold for... I don't use them for that because they smear paint VERY smooth, as you mentioned)
@@MB-xw1tu yes I've seen them advertised for that purpose too
I use a 10 inch flooring finish applicator for furniture (the foam kind not lambskin) it is very quick and easy to leave straight even coats with it for any flat surface.
Very informative and clear.
Eventhough it could give the wood an uneven finish thickness, what about spraying the PU ? Is it worth ?
When working with large panels of plywood (intended for kitchen cabinets), hand finishing would take a infinite amount of time.
Question! How do you dispose of the Mineral Spirits that you clean/soak the brush in?
Reuse it for a while, then use it to start the fire pit.
Its also a fairly good weed killer as is mineral turpentine and most petrochemicals.
Thanks for the many quality videos. I have purchased a mask from your sponsor to support the channel
5:20 I'm looking forward to use a water-based varnish (namely Saman's). After sanding and before applying the varnish, should I clean the wood with Mineral Spirits, or just water?
Slick as snot (on a glass door knob) Haven't heard that one in a while!
Nice vid
1. I wipe on my first finish with a 50/50 mix
2. I wipe on my second finish with a 75/25 mix after a very lite sand
3. I wipe my third finish with 100% poly after a very lite sand
4. I brush on my 4th, 5th, and 6th finished (Based on application)
Another quality lesson in the subtlety of woodworking. Thank you Stumpy
Wiping method is especially useful on items with a lot of "joints" like chairs, things with spindles, shelving units, etc. Brushing and keeping a wet edge is tough when you have something like a chair with 10 back spindles. Bob Flexner also calls it a very foolproof method.
Thank you for informative video. I looked on line for toxicity of Poly before and I didn't remember any permanent damage from Poly. So your video concerned me a bit and so I did another search and the two websites said that Poly is relatively safe. The amount of VOCs released during a typical application is too low to produce harmful effects. You would need concentrated long term exposure to get permanent health damage. This does not occur even during industrial applications. You can get lung irritation, headaches, dizziness, nausea, asthmatic attacks but these are temporary. I do believe that a respirator is necessary to avoid these symptoms, but I don't think you lose brain cells from Poly. Brain cell losses could be from something else. ;)
so glad you used a real brush not those darn foam things. i tried a foam brush once and it was impossible to lay the poly on evenly. i guess people just don't know how to clean a brush properly. a 1/4 cup of thinners at most is all you need for a perfectly clean brush that size. and really only takes a couple of minutes. i am still using the same high quality brush after over 20 years of use.
I always use the foam brushes and never have any issues with them. Of course I'm only an amatuer/beginner, but I've used both water and oil based polys and no one's ever said the finish was uneven. (and I do know how to clean a brush, I just prefer not to)
So glad I stumbled upon this page! Your videos are great.
Thanks for the great video, I can't believe I am taking advice from a Redwings fan, but I guess I will.
As a painter for over 40 years. When you remove the brush from the shuck..spend a minute to pluck any new bristles, so they won't come off on your project or in the can
Great video. I learned stuff! To quote Stumpy, this video was slick as snot!
Searched for this video specifically to use your (Trend) link to buy from your sponsor--thanks for the great videos!
This was so well explained and so detailed. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and expertise with us all. God bless you.
Another good way to get a slick factory looking finish is do 2 or 3 coats just like he shows here and after prepping the last coat with sandpaper. Get a can of the Minwax spray polyurethane and spray everything. You do not have to sand between coats or wait for it to completely dry. Fact you're not supposed to let it completely dry between coats. After you spray a coat wait 5 to 10 minutes and spray it again. You can just keep doing this until you run out of product. The spray stuff is kind of thin to use on its own but it is great for a top coating over the brush on stuff. There is another brand of this product that is not worth a crap so don't use it and stick with minwax aerosol.
Great tips. One thing not mentioned is the primary reason/benefit of thinning i.e. the reduction or elimination of bubbles that form in unthinned poly.
don't know if I missed it or so, but the wipe on has some other advantages, for all kinds of finishes. first, it can penetrate deeper. it also follows the wood structure better and doesn't "pool up" in little dents and divets. this can be a benefit if you have some mix of sanded and structured wood surface. similar for surfaces with very varying grain structure where one soaks up about everything, its easier to work with using thinned out. you can experiment and also brush on thinned and wipe off etc.
Wrapping up a brush with oil base does not work like with water based products, but there is a way to preserve your brush with oil base. Wrap the brush with aluminum foil and put it in a container of water. This will keep it soft for a long time. When you're ready to start putting your finish on again just go to a safe place and whip the brush hard and sling the water out of it. The oil based product will not mix with water at all so it's not a problem.
Hi i am wanting to apply poly over a red oak staircase i have sanded it down and it used to have a amber tint to it what poly are you using that gives it that nice amber colour
thanks
Paul
Thanks for the detail & choices. I am not knowledgeable about finishes.
Every cabinet shop I worked in 150 to 180 was for paint and minimum 220 to 250 for stain. Between coats never less than 300 often 350 to 500
I’m trying to paint my electric guitar, and many recommend a poly finish. What do you think about this?
Forgot to mention you will need EXCELLENT lighting to be able to see any runs. Without good lighting they are practically invisible.
Nice to have a brush box to susupend brush in solvent and brush spinner for oil base clean up.
If you want a stain finish that absolutely glows, this is what to do. Never use poly with colour added that just always looks trashy. Never apply stain directly to wood as it soaks into the end grain more, grain is not straight with the surface but waves up and down which leads to very uneven colour absorption which looks blotchy and unnatural. Instead: Once all the bare timber sanding is done, apply 2 coats of sanding sealer without sanding between coats. This is a clear finish that has a filler added so that it fills the grain. This is especially important for timers that have a hardwood grain structure. That does not necessarily mean a hard dense timber, but a mixture of large and fine vessels in the timber. It is unusual to have a light low density hardwood but it happens, Balsa for example has a hardwood structure. Softwoods have a uniform fine grain structure. Examples of hard dense softwoods are those used for flute making, like African blackwood & Jacaranda. Anyway, no more than 2 coats, then sand lightly & clean off. It is very important to only sand lightly so that sanding does not affect the consistency of then stain colour & all end grain is completely sealed. Then you are ready to apply the stain, you can rub that on with a cloth. If desired, you can do a darker stain with a dry course cloth so that goes on in streaks that resemble grain variation, this is particularly good if the actual timber is not figured. When dry, apply finishing coats of poly. the classiest most glowing timber finishes I have ever seen were done this way.
@@pinarppanrapir9489 Not necessarily, it holds true for PU varnish finishes as well IME. If you varnish straight on the timber, you get grain print through for many many coats, especially hardwoods. The sanding sealer gets that dealt with in just 2 coats. So you need far fewer coats which is a lot faster to get a glass finish. The main takeaway though is seal the grain before staining.
I find that sealers change the wood color to a light amber. Have you found any that don’t?
@@NeedsMoreToys I am using Feast Watson & I'm staining on top of the sealer. I do some tests to adjust the stain accordingly, I haven't taken particular notice of light amber colouring with the woods I use. I'd probably consider that beneficial unless working with something pale like Huon Pine. I am more than happy with the results. All turps based Polyurethanes (PU) tend to yellow with age, while water based PU are reported not to do so. However I haven't used the latter as yet.
Trend Stealth works great for me. Superb fit
I thin oil base poly for my first brushed on coat on bare wood. This allows the poly to penetrate the surface and provide a sealing base for the next coats. Then the next brushed coats are full poly thickness. I lightly rub 0000 steel wool after each coat is dry to level the surface. I then wipe the surface down with light mineral spirits on a rag before the next coat. I prefer to brush on poly rather than wipe on poly. Just my preference.
Arm-R-Seal is already pretty thin. It soaks in quite well.
Does wiping off dust with denatured alcohol also act as a wood conditioner? Do thin wiping finishes even need a wash coat or a wood conditioner?
Great video refresher, thank you. However, you mentioned this was great for indoor (agreed) and some outdoor projects. I am currently making some small Cedar wooden signs for the outside. Will this be a good application for that project? Thank you
Love your videos. I bought a used kitchen table with an old dilapidated finish. I applied EZ Strip paint & varnish stripper, scraped it all off, cleaned with TSP and water then after drying went at it with an orbital sander then hand sanded to a 180 finish. Vacuumed and tack clothed very smooth and clean. Don't know the species of the wood veneer. Applied 3 coats of Varathane oil based Classic penetrating wood stain, (Ebony). It barely took any more stain on the 3rd pass. Once dry it looked and felt fabulous. Wish I could have left it like that. I then brushed on Varathane oil based Professional Premium Clear Finish 1200 Matte also in 3 coats. Firstly, nowhere on the can does it say polyurethane or urethane. Can you tell me what this top coat is? More importantly, with each successive coat the finish got worse. I doubled the time between coats. They say 3-4 hours and I went 8 or more. I had to sand as it appears there are hundreds if not thousands of little buggers less than 1mm but so noticeable to both the eye and feel. My garage is as clean as I can get it and I do not blow the dust off but vacuum instead followed by tack cloth. I this the 3rd coat with mineral spirits and the 3rd coat is worst of all. What have I done wrong. BTW, I did not shake the can, only stirred and the final coat I used a separate clean container so I could add some mineral spirits. 4:1 top coat to thinner. At this point I want to throw out 20 hours of work. Please help.
Would poly be a good option to refinish a knife handle?
Hi can I use wipe on poly on stained wood such as Waterbased and gel?
I did oil based stain on small section of dining table then applied one thin coat of Minwax spar urethane. After coat is dry for 24hr. Then I used 320 grit sandpaper to buff it before going for second coat. Problem is sandpaper has left scratchy marks and lines although surface feels very smooth. Did I misstep anything? How can the sandpaper scratches be removed?
Thank you for this video, I know it was posted a few years ago. My question is can I spray Poly at 50% thin? Thank you.
Thank you for this easy to understand video, sir.
Hi - Wow you are comprehensive - I am newbie -
q1.is denatured alcohol good to wipe down ANY wooden surface before applying ANY type of finish
q2. how much importance to you rate ensuring ALL dust particles are off the surface - if so - is that why you use denatured alcohol or does it also do some other purpose
Sorry I hope you did not get lost with questions - I all over the place here
Here in CO, our ambient humidity will end up being around 15% for a lot of fall winter and spring. If you are like me, you'll need to thin every finish at least a bit. it is very difficult to brush on water based finishes here.
Stumpy, is there anything I can add to your mix to give it some colour? Thanks
Lol, i just thin out the full can with how much fits into the can shake it and start spreading it with diy brush made from folding this random roll of cleaning rags, thin synthetic sheets of cloth basically. Do the how many coats i need with pretty thick layers, then give it a sand with 380 grit and get proper brush to finish the surfaces with final coat or use spray gun. Since i use cheapest brushes around i wont clean them, but instead try to use brush end to put on the final coat, let it dry, cut out the hardened part and use the rest in some early layer or just paint jobs. If you have poly thin enough that it runs properly it will level it self out pretty well. If i make anything fancies then its the spray gun for final layer, though i should probably try that wipe on poly sometimes, might be less messy and give better results.