I really hate when people say something along the lines of "If you hate fast travel so much then just don't do it!". Have you played a game like New Vegas without fast travel? The game was designed with the player abusing fast travel as there is almost never a reason to return to a location after having discovered it. If you don't use fast travel then you just waste your time walking around an empty landscape. Games have to be designed from the ground up without fast traveling in mind for it to work, which is a difficult task that most modern developers aren't willing to tackle. It's even worse when MMOs do it as it results in the world feeling empty with zero player interaction.
Back to uploading vids .. My house was being worked on so I had no time to record for awhile .. I'm reviewing some Fallout stuff and working on other types of videos ...Will have my computer built hopefully by October so I'm happy about that ..have a great day
european productions ? Morrowind is beated by Witchunter at every level. There are a number of games out there that made history and no one knows them The following : JTF rts , Patician series, Gothic2 and 3, icewind dale 2 , M&B ,Sins of a Solar Empire ,Mafia ,and others
One travel system that I loved in games was the Legend of Zelda Twilight Princess's way of fast travel. When you get to a part in the game, you get the ability to travel via warp portals you unlocked by defeating certain enemies, making it feel like you earned it rather than having it there. It also can't be used freely until mid-game, where you have the ability to change from human to wolf form, and even then you can't do it at free will. (i.e. you can't warp in front of people because they will see you transform into a wolf.). Even when you do unlock all the warp places there are still other ways you can travel through the map. Even though Twilight Princess may not be an RPG, it still had an awesome fast travel system.
I just got back into Morrowind and I forgot there was no quest markers etc and had to remember where a lot of shit was and it just reminded me how much our hands are held now days.
i really liked how in fallout new vegas and 2, games main quest guided you through the map in a safe way but didnt limit your exploring ( which usually in those games ended you dying to something ) :D also i like the morrowinds style of having transportations like boats and those weird walking tall creatures makes the world more believable
The thing is while fast travel is less tedious and more convenient, no fast traveling promotes more exploration. While I personally enjoyed Oblivion, I've always found it dumb that everything was already explored.
I liked the way fast travel was handled in Morrowind, it was very immersive, but THOSE F****** CLIFF RACERS MAN! You took a step outside town and you were immediately bombarded from the sky! Personally though, I think the best fast traveling system that I have seen in recent games was in The Witcher 3: you go to signposts, you choose a previously discovered location and you appear there. It's not as easy as in Skyrim or as boring as in Kingdom Come, where it takes way too long to fast travel.
what sucks is that some rpgs expect you to use fast travel so they make their destinations far away which turns into a bore fest unless the game's atmosphere is perfect.
They pad the game with giant open dead spaces to make the game map seem huge. But in reality the extra space is just a handful of trees and some rain effects. GTA5 is like this. Same with Fallout 4. And even Skyrim to some extent just a void.
I was so disappointed and frustrated when they took away the Guild Guides, Silt Striders and teleportation spells in Oblivion. Basically all the means of transportation and forced us to use the gamey, immersion shattering fast travel if you didn't feel like walking. Say what you want about Skyrim but at least they added travelling caravans to that game.
I like Morrowind and Dragon's Dogma idea of fast travel by turning it into items and stuff you have to find in the game world. Also like the metroidvania/Souls style of exploration where gaining a new skill/ability could give you the ability to open up new paths. I'd say M&B exploration is almost like an evolution of Fallout/Arcanum ones with a much more simulation feel with different npcs roaming around always from merchants, bandits, and faction soldiers which could be interacted in different ways if you have the skill.
Why not have the option to choose between Fast Travel methods? Let's say you have the option to turn fast travel off, but you can still use a car or something with a limited supply of fuel (which you have to search for to replenish it). It gives you the option whether you prefer that kind of playstyle or not.
I don't know if yall played Assassin's creed brotherhood but you basicly renovate the tunnel entrances in each parts of the city to fast travel, i liked that mechanic
For me, fast travel(as in, Skyrim) should only be acceptable when you unlock it, like with Gothic. Enderal is also a good example of good fast-travel I personally don't like the way Skyrim does it, the game just gives it to you. I like the way you are coming, RetrospectiveGaming. Will you make a discussion regarding level scaling?
Just a few more to cure my frustration: All the houses, factions ( that you cannot join because you joined another), skilling ten or twenty stats instead of 2 or 3, fast travel, you even needed X stats to join a house and male quests for them. Skyrim is really just the biggest insult ever and completely fucked the RPG genre right in the anus of simplicity
I never liked "traveling" in general in games. I find it tedious and dull and repetitive. It's a contrast because I've talked to some buddies who have very different tastes in games (they loved Oblivion, for example, but I found it dull after a few hours), and they express a very different sentiment. They tell me how cool it was to look at trees and sunsets and lakes and things of this sort while they spend 20 minutes walking from point A to B. I never found that interesting. Most of the interesting content I find in an RPG boils down to NPCs, so one of the few massive, seamless world games I enjoyed were the Ultima games (especially 6&7), because while the world was so large and there was no fast travel or world map option, you could wander off the beaten path and within a minute or two, encounter some very unique and interesting NPC like a crazy old senile wizard living in the middle of nowhere who has completely unique backstory, dialogue options, who you can kill (if you're a psychopath), etc. It is not remotely as interesting to me if I wander off the beaten path for 15 minutes just to find some weird crate with some loot in the middle of nowhere -- that doesn't feel very unique and interesting to me. The fact that they weren't 3D also helped in my opinion, because even though Ultima games were massive, you could cover what might have been the analogy of many meters in the blink of an eye by moving from one tile to the next. With 3D you have to watch the animation of every single little footstep your character takes which becomes so painful to me if the world is very sparse and just filled with spawning monsters and not so many NPCs and extremely unique things to encounter in every little region of the map. The other is maybe Grand Theft Auto since just driving around and stealing vehicles and doing motorcycle stunts while evading police was a source of endless entertainment in that one, and they had little touches like letting you change the radio station and listening to radio hosts and music which helped passed the time while you drove from point A to B. Still my favorite in terms of level design was Vice City which had one of the smallest maps I've seen in a GTA game, but that made it so the world felt more densely populated with unique content and less time spent traveling from point A to B for a mission rather than sparse content padding out more of the player's time to just traveling. The idea of fast travel to me is somewhat moot though. It's really the ratio of dense, wholly unique content we can encounter very quickly vs sparse, mostly repetitive content we have to encounter slowly while encountering the repetitive content for the bulk of the time. I prefer worlds to be dense with lots of wholly unique, hand-written, hand-designed content I can encounter with each passing minute. I don't enjoy games where I feel like the bulk of my time is spent watching my character's walk or horse riding animation while looking at trees and mountains and caves and such and just fighting generic "filler" enemies which respawn over and over.
I'm very divisive when it comes to fast travel, some games benefit greatly from it but its just for players getting around too easily without exploration... But a game like Daggerfall and Arena it is perfectly needed but Skyrim isn't big enough for it to matter honestly... Depends on the size of the game world obviously
HAHAHAAHAHA wow what a freaking coincidence. I was talking to my friend Pig about how RPG mechanics help define an RPG, and lo and behold Retro releases this. HAHAAHAHAHA
Imo Witcher 3 does a good medium with Fast Travel because A. In order to use the fast travel system you have to travel to a sign post and use that to go to other sign posts, Boats have this system too. B. You can buy maps to unlock signposts (but only in the Skellige map) C. Fast traveling is a good option buttttttttt CDPR also puts in quests by exploration so sometimes if you really want to be a quest hog exploration is a must in this game. I usually try not to use fast travel only when I explored about 99% of the map. Besides its very visually stunning to explore the world.
I hated the travel system in Dragon's Dogma (original version, hadn't played Dark Arisen). It turned me off from the game. I have no time for forced running around everywhere. I see no problem with having convenient fast travel systems. If someone wants to explore, they can still do that. No need to punish everyone.
Dark Arisen makes it a bit easier .. Since you can get fairystones a lot easier and its inexpensive ..You might want to try it out if you ever feel like playing again!
You brought it on yourself with your own whiny condescending comment. You reap what you sow kid. I personally fail to understand how designing a game so a player has to actually play more of your game is "punishing" in any way. Most sane folk would think more content in a game they like is rewarding.
Oh my god are you playing Arcanum without using Cheat Engine speedhack? Great game but I can't even imagine playing that in real time. The travel system was horrible.
Hey Retro! Cheat engine is a sowftware that lets you edit values in a selected program or game. Example: you have 50 mana in MWind. You alt tab to CE, search for the value 50, go back in the game, cast a spell, loose 20 mana, go back to CE and search again but this time with 20 and now you probably just found your mana adress and you can edit it, freeze it, etc etc... :)
I think your channel shows that the modern industry is just so fucked up. Everything is just too easy. And us older people think that games should go back to their roots, but sadily dont realise this isnt what the newer player base wants. We want the TES6 to be as „deep“ as Morrowind, we want pure freedom, but what we get is an Action-Rpg like Skyrim where 90% of the predecessor-features are cut out. And the younger audience will never have any clue of what real freedom in a game means, it is not their fault. If they think that Skyrim has the biggest freedom of all time (You cannot kill 80% of the NPCs, spells cannot fail, your endurance has nothing to do with spelling, you cannot create your own spell, you have 5 equip slots instead of 10 or more etc etc etc) it is not because they are ignorant, but it is because the industry WANTS them to think that Skyrim is pure freedom. They have no other example to compare it with. And i think that it is too late for a comeback of all these ‚complicated‘ mechanics that made Morrowind for instance great.
I really hate when people say something along the lines of "If you hate fast travel so much then just don't do it!". Have you played a game like New Vegas without fast travel? The game was designed with the player abusing fast travel as there is almost never a reason to return to a location after having discovered it. If you don't use fast travel then you just waste your time walking around an empty landscape. Games have to be designed from the ground up without fast traveling in mind for it to work, which is a difficult task that most modern developers aren't willing to tackle. It's even worse when MMOs do it as it results in the world feeling empty with zero player interaction.
HYDRAdude Agreed 100%. Fast travel works if the world is small and the tasks for a quest are near each other.
Back to uploading vids .. My house was being worked on so I had no time to record for awhile .. I'm reviewing some Fallout stuff and working on other types of videos ...Will have my computer built hopefully by October so I'm happy about that ..have a great day
Yo my guy, you ready for Underworld Ascendant and Pathfinder Kingmaker? They look really damn amazing true CRPGs making a comeback!!!!
RetrospectiveGaming Bro You have to do a video on Power Stone or Legend of the Dragoon.
european productions ? Morrowind is beated by Witchunter at every level. There are a number of games out there that made history and no one knows them The following : JTF rts , Patician series, Gothic2 and 3, icewind dale 2 , M&B ,Sins of a Solar Empire ,Mafia ,and others
One travel system that I loved in games was the Legend of Zelda Twilight Princess's way of fast travel. When you get to a part in the game, you get the ability to travel via warp portals you unlocked by defeating certain enemies, making it feel like you earned it rather than having it there. It also can't be used freely until mid-game, where you have the ability to change from human to wolf form, and even then you can't do it at free will. (i.e. you can't warp in front of people because they will see you transform into a wolf.). Even when you do unlock all the warp places there are still other ways you can travel through the map.
Even though Twilight Princess may not be an RPG, it still had an awesome fast travel system.
I just got back into Morrowind and I forgot there was no quest markers etc and had to remember where a lot of shit was and it just reminded me how much our hands are held now days.
Always a good day when retrospective uploads
i really liked how in fallout new vegas and 2, games main quest guided you through the map in a safe way but didnt limit your exploring ( which usually in those games ended you dying to something ) :D also i like the morrowinds style of having transportations like boats and those weird walking tall creatures makes the world more believable
The thing is while fast travel is less tedious and more convenient, no fast traveling promotes more exploration. While I personally enjoyed Oblivion, I've always found it dumb that everything was already explored.
I liked the way fast travel was handled in Morrowind, it was very immersive, but THOSE F****** CLIFF RACERS MAN! You took a step outside town and you were immediately bombarded from the sky! Personally though, I think the best fast traveling system that I have seen in recent games was in The Witcher 3: you go to signposts, you choose a previously discovered location and you appear there. It's not as easy as in Skyrim or as boring as in Kingdom Come, where it takes way too long to fast travel.
Dragons Dogma has HUGE potential. DnD brought very well to 3D, especially in the dungeons.
what sucks is that some rpgs expect you to use fast travel so they make their destinations far away which turns into a bore fest unless the game's atmosphere is perfect.
They pad the game with giant open dead spaces to make the game map seem huge. But in reality the extra space is just a handful of trees and some rain effects. GTA5 is like this. Same with Fallout 4. And even Skyrim to some extent just a void.
I was so disappointed and frustrated when they took away the Guild Guides, Silt Striders and teleportation spells in Oblivion. Basically all the means of transportation and forced us to use the gamey, immersion shattering fast travel if you didn't feel like walking. Say what you want about Skyrim but at least they added travelling caravans to that game.
I like Morrowind and Dragon's Dogma idea of fast travel by turning it into items and stuff you have to find in the game world.
Also like the metroidvania/Souls style of exploration where gaining a new skill/ability could give you the ability to open up new paths.
I'd say M&B exploration is almost like an evolution of Fallout/Arcanum ones with a much more simulation feel with different npcs roaming around always from merchants, bandits, and faction soldiers which could be interacted in different ways if you have the skill.
Why not have the option to choose between Fast Travel methods? Let's say you have the option to turn fast travel off, but you can still use a car or something with a limited supply of fuel (which you have to search for to replenish it). It gives you the option whether you prefer that kind of playstyle or not.
I don't know if yall played Assassin's creed brotherhood but you basicly renovate the tunnel entrances in each parts of the city to fast travel, i liked that mechanic
I think this is a great idea for a series! I would love to see one on quest markers vs no quest markers.
For me, fast travel(as in, Skyrim) should only be acceptable when you unlock it, like with Gothic.
Enderal is also a good example of good fast-travel
I personally don't like the way Skyrim does it, the game just gives it to you.
I like the way you are coming, RetrospectiveGaming. Will you make a discussion regarding level scaling?
Just a few more to cure my frustration: All the houses, factions ( that you cannot join because you joined another), skilling ten or twenty stats instead of 2 or 3, fast travel, you even needed X stats to join a house and male quests for them. Skyrim is really just the biggest insult ever and completely fucked the RPG genre right in the anus of simplicity
Amazing video, m8! I agree with you in everything.
Still waiting for second part...
I never liked "traveling" in general in games. I find it tedious and dull and repetitive. It's a contrast because I've talked to some buddies who have very different tastes in games (they loved Oblivion, for example, but I found it dull after a few hours), and they express a very different sentiment. They tell me how cool it was to look at trees and sunsets and lakes and things of this sort while they spend 20 minutes walking from point A to B. I never found that interesting.
Most of the interesting content I find in an RPG boils down to NPCs, so one of the few massive, seamless world games I enjoyed were the Ultima games (especially 6&7), because while the world was so large and there was no fast travel or world map option, you could wander off the beaten path and within a minute or two, encounter some very unique and interesting NPC like a crazy old senile wizard living in the middle of nowhere who has completely unique backstory, dialogue options, who you can kill (if you're a psychopath), etc. It is not remotely as interesting to me if I wander off the beaten path for 15 minutes just to find some weird crate with some loot in the middle of nowhere -- that doesn't feel very unique and interesting to me.
The fact that they weren't 3D also helped in my opinion, because even though Ultima games were massive, you could cover what might have been the analogy of many meters in the blink of an eye by moving from one tile to the next. With 3D you have to watch the animation of every single little footstep your character takes which becomes so painful to me if the world is very sparse and just filled with spawning monsters and not so many NPCs and extremely unique things to encounter in every little region of the map.
The other is maybe Grand Theft Auto since just driving around and stealing vehicles and doing motorcycle stunts while evading police was a source of endless entertainment in that one, and they had little touches like letting you change the radio station and listening to radio hosts and music which helped passed the time while you drove from point A to B. Still my favorite in terms of level design was Vice City which had one of the smallest maps I've seen in a GTA game, but that made it so the world felt more densely populated with unique content and less time spent traveling from point A to B for a mission rather than sparse content padding out more of the player's time to just traveling.
The idea of fast travel to me is somewhat moot though. It's really the ratio of dense, wholly unique content we can encounter very quickly vs sparse, mostly repetitive content we have to encounter slowly while encountering the repetitive content for the bulk of the time. I prefer worlds to be dense with lots of wholly unique, hand-written, hand-designed content I can encounter with each passing minute. I don't enjoy games where I feel like the bulk of my time is spent watching my character's walk or horse riding animation while looking at trees and mountains and caves and such and just fighting generic "filler" enemies which respawn over and over.
Very informative video, thank you
I'm very divisive when it comes to fast travel, some games benefit greatly from it but its just for players getting around too easily without exploration... But a game like Daggerfall and Arena it is perfectly needed but Skyrim isn't big enough for it to matter honestly... Depends on the size of the game world obviously
So you're playing Dragon's Dogma?
I really hate that fallout is the only notable rpg set in somewhat mordern place.
Nairwit The Strategist welcome to fantasy rpg number 998989988374682918263892092
The Shadowrun games are amazing. The 2nd one Dragonfall is very very well written with a good degree of choice.
Don't forget Underrail. Great game.
Try Shadowrun despite them being fantasy/cyberpunk, they are set in real world places though and are very cool!
The RPG Codex? lmao I'm sorry for you, they are mad buns as hell...
HAHAHAAHAHA wow what a freaking coincidence.
I was talking to my friend Pig about how RPG mechanics help define an RPG, and lo and behold Retro releases this.
HAHAAHAHAHA
Imo Witcher 3 does a good medium with Fast Travel because
A. In order to use the fast travel system you have to travel to a sign post and use that to go to other sign posts, Boats have this system too.
B. You can buy maps to unlock signposts (but only in the Skellige map)
C. Fast traveling is a good option buttttttttt CDPR also puts in quests by exploration so sometimes if you really want to be a quest hog exploration is a must in this game.
I usually try not to use fast travel only when I explored about 99% of the map.
Besides its very visually stunning to explore the world.
I hated the travel system in Dragon's Dogma (original version, hadn't played Dark Arisen). It turned me off from the game.
I have no time for forced running around everywhere. I see no problem with having convenient fast travel systems. If someone wants to explore, they can still do that. No need to punish everyone.
Dark Arisen makes it a bit easier .. Since you can get fairystones a lot easier and its inexpensive ..You might want to try it out if you ever feel like playing again!
Could you sound any more condescending. You aren't making me feel any more interested in the title with such a douchey reply.
You brought it on yourself with your own whiny condescending comment. You reap what you sow kid. I personally fail to understand how designing a game so a player has to actually play more of your game is "punishing" in any way. Most sane folk would think more content in a game they like is rewarding.
Didn't play Gothic 3? You shouldn't.
Oh my god are you playing Arcanum without using Cheat Engine speedhack? Great game but I can't even imagine playing that in real time. The travel system was horrible.
I'm Only Happy When it Reigns Only thing I use is the patch ... What is the cheat engine
Hey Retro! Cheat engine is a sowftware that lets you edit values in a selected program or game. Example: you have 50 mana in MWind. You alt tab to CE, search for the value 50, go back in the game, cast a spell, loose 20 mana, go back to CE and search again but this time with 20 and now you probably just found your mana adress and you can edit it, freeze it, etc etc... :)
+Stealth- Boy 3000
True but most people only use the Speedhack. It gets tiring looking at the Fallout lockpicking/heal/action animation all the time.
I think your channel shows that the modern industry is just so fucked up. Everything is just too easy. And us older people think that games should go back to their roots, but sadily dont realise this isnt what the newer player base wants. We want the TES6 to be as „deep“ as Morrowind, we want pure freedom, but what we get is an Action-Rpg like Skyrim where 90% of the predecessor-features are cut out. And the younger audience will never have any clue of what real freedom in a game means, it is not their fault. If they think that Skyrim has the biggest freedom of all time (You cannot kill 80% of the NPCs, spells cannot fail, your endurance has nothing to do with spelling, you cannot create your own spell, you have 5 equip slots instead of 10 or more etc etc etc) it is not because they are ignorant, but it is because the industry WANTS them to think that Skyrim is pure freedom. They have no other example to compare it with. And i think that it is too late for a comeback of all these ‚complicated‘ mechanics that made Morrowind for instance great.