40K - DORN MUST STAY DEAD - Returning Primarchs | Warhammer 40,000 Lore/Speculation
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- Опубліковано 13 чер 2024
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Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
0:43 Status of the Primarchs
6:46 Diminishing Returns
23:01 The Death of Rogal Dorn
34:45 Better Dead Than Narr-Retread
▶️ Idiotoftheeast / idiotoftheeast
BGM Credits:
▶️ Kevin MacLeod (Royalty Free Music): incompetech.com/music/
▶️ epidemicsound.com
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Games workshop, Warhammer 40,000, Warhammer, 40k, Space Marine Etc are all Trademarks of Games Workshop Ltd. Games Workshop does not endorse or support the 'Lore' videos. All views and opinions expressed in this video belong to Luetin09 and in no way reflect the views or opinions of Games Workshop Ltd. - Ігри
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HEAR ME OUT lol - Rogal Dorn. ... as the old man says... sometimes Dead.. Is Better. Enjoy, Drop a LIKE please, tell me your thoughts below!
this is a disaster, baldrak stream crashed and then you give him this news,,,,🤣🤣🤣
But who would Fortify the imperium position then..?
i have been thinking for a while about this, but two Primarchs siding for the imperium is already too much for a grimdark setting, if more primarchs return, than the imperium will eventually revert back to how 30k pre Horus heresy was, three or more primarch wouldn't struggle to revert it back.
there wouldn't be any reason for chapters and the space marines would return to its original legion form, making it harder for infighting and constant war between marines and rest of the imperium. this is the reason why lion and guilliman haven't met yet. and if they do the best outcome would be that they started fighting each other (probably about cawl doing something heretical), otherwise, it will actually make it harder for the settings to stick to grim dark elements(dark elements yes, grimdark no)
If lorgar comes back corax will to
Also if I had a nickel for every time cain was rumored dead I would need to get more pockets
Right, let’s get this done, get to my gaff for a Table Top livestream battle! THE GRUDGE HAS BEEN WRITTEN.
I thought you might show up around here 😅
😂😂😂 like watching your elder siblings fight
This is good 😂😂
Iron warriors are purely and simply better
LMAO
"Dorn must stay dead"
Dorn: no
😂
*Lutien collapses as he cannot bear the weight of these words*
**Dorn's Serious Mode Blank Face intensifies**
Inquisition: Dorn is dead.
Grimaldus: You're objection is noted and duley ignored.
Nooo. 😂
Dorn isn't dead. He never died on screen, there is quite literally no body. Just a severed hand. And Dorn wants his hand back. In fact GW SPECIFICALLY lists him as a "Lost Primarch" not a dead Primarch.
Curze confirmed his death
Dorn said he doesnt want that hand back anymore.
It's modern GW. They're going to bring back literally every Primarch. Hell, they might even bring back the Emperor. Why pass up those glorious model sale opportunities?
That is a bit of a retcon. I believe originally they had the lore of his body / bones being on display by a Chaos warband but later it was changed to only his hand being found.
I'm fine with that retcon. Personally, GW already brought by my least favorite Primarch.
Leutin: are there any returning characters in warhammer? No
Lucius the eternal: am i a joke to you?
Well, yes, frankly.
I mean yeah he's kind of a joke, just not a good one.
_Genuinely wouldn't mind if they used his eternal bullshit or whatever and transfer it to Vulkan so that he can be alive again, and Lucius can finally just fucking stay dead._
Honestly they could end Lucius in a good way by having someone kill him after they find out how his ability works and then commit suicide to bypass his takeover bs
Well he is a joke
This sounds like a lot of copium from a Smurf lover. He doesn't want to see "Robot Girlyman" have his spotlight stolen.
Lies
Dorn is already alive as a centurion in the imperial palace
Now where is my centurion
Let our Golden Teddy Bear reign supreme in our memories!
Yeeesssss.
No!
Yeeess!
Nnnoooooo.
And I suspect he is high on narcotics
@elrrek74 he smells of dirt and entitlement.
Rogal Dorn, returning at the beginning of the 11th edition: "I survived. By being dead. In pretend."
I was dead. In a mine that I crafted. I was dead, in mine craft.
*scenes of servitors making a loud alternating bussing sound akin to machine laughter*
This has been a presentation of Rogal Dorn Media Enterprises, all rights reserved, praise the Emperor!
"I have made a joke. It is funny because it is making light of two aspects of life, while I was covering up the truth by asserting it wasn't real."
A long time ago, I. Was. Me.
I disguised myself. As a Primaris Centurion. It was very clever.
This applies at least a trillion fold onto Horus. Horus was known to have been obliterated and erased completely. The greatest betrayal had an actual consequence. Almost to say "you know all the shenanigans we like to pull? Yeah, we are never pulling that here. Horus is *gone* gone." I really dislike how Horus' return is on the table now after the latest novels.
….dude, the tabletop models are for AoD (30k tabletop)
…last I checked Horus was alive during the heresy, lol
Ahhh yes, the classic paradox of Schroedinger's Dorn.
Valraks stream collapses shortly before this video is released. Coincidence? I think not
That’s what I was coming to say lol
Shall the foil be foiled?!
I'm going to start making some 'Dorn is Dead' Scam Seals.
@@Luetin09 brilliant, he'll lose his mind haha
@@Luetin09 Best Crossover since Infinity war
What if they just brought his hand back to life? It could run around like Thing from Addams Family
lolol that had me laughing out loud 😂
yes this plz
👀Wtf!!!
Wait, doesn't skeletal remains mean DNA in bone marrow? Would reconstruction be possible given Belissarius Cawl is borderline inventor/heretic, maybe something having to do with the Primarch process? Than other Dorn comes back and we have two of them running around... 😂 ... on second thought, maybe not a good idea 😅
“Let us show you, the HAND of the God Emperor” (making it sound like this world ending weapon, but it’s just Dorns hand running around killing enemies) 😌🤣
The death of Superman against Doomsday is a great example of the points you are bringing up. There was massive weight to his death. It sent shock waves across the comics world. Then they brought him back and he has "died" several since. It lost its gravitas... and really cemented the plot armor trope.
Then give me the death of Rogal Dorn in a proper scene with the proper weight behind it. But we have to remember, he isn't officially dead.
Yea, no imagen the death of superman where they kill him off panel, and they "can't find his body".
Rogal Dorn has no such death. This would be like superman and doomsday clashing in one panel and in the next there's a museum with a hand in it...
This only applies if Dorn had that writting and weight behind it. No such effort was put in - it's literally oh yeah he went on a ship and no we can only find his hand. It's the laziest and most obvious sign they want to bring him back at some point.
Luetin: "Dorn must stay dead, because..." >40 minute video
Dorn: "No. I'm alive now."
But...Dorn isn't dead.
He’s presumed dead, not confirmed however, but it’s certainly more likely he is dead
Yeah, wasn't he just chilling out on Holy Terra? You know building sand castles and sh!t.
🚬😎
@@ieatpeopleandno he’s current by his fathers side.
@@phoenix_03e No body, no death. That's how all media, especially sci-fi and fantasy, works. xD Dorn is coming back at some point, let's be honest.
Guilliman was presumed dead by the Imperium. We saw how that went.
The theory that he is hiding in the Sanctum Imperialis "Text-to-Speech" style is so dumb and yet strangely appropriate.
"I suspect he was high on narcotics." - Rogal Dorn regarding Luetin
lmao
The last status on Dorn already changed him from KIA to MIA back in the fists supplement in 2018/2019. And we have Vulkan saying he will tell Dorn about his sons in the beast arises series (which is after Dorn dissapeared).
Dorn: "I hid myself while I repair myself"
Dorn doesn’t have time to die. He’s remodeling my bathroom this weekend
But you'll never get back inside it!!
*Fortifying
Inquisition: Dorn is dead
Grimaldus: Your objection is noted and duley ignored
Dorn: No.
...
...
Inquisition: Was that all you were going to say?
Dorn: Yes.
*Awkward silence intensifies*
'lorgar is unique in that hes the only demon prince of chaos undivided'
Perturabo: 'Am i a joke to you?'
Also M'Kar and Be'lakor are both undivided I believe. Also, many others as well, but those are the most notable.
Exactly what I thought. Poor Perti.
Not a prince.
@@lloydgush but... he is, though? Rules over the daemon world of Medrengard, ascended to Daemonhood after the heresy.
Can we get a Dreadnought Primarch tho? Like one so horribly ripped apart that he's more life support with armor plating than the old walking box we're used to
"No one likes painting yellow, it's a pain in the ass."
GW: "Dorn stays dead for now. Someone tell research to get on the yellow paint problem."
People who say that don't know how to paint and cant be bothered to google search efficient ways to paint yellow.
Who is to say the returmed Rogal Dorn wouldn't wear Black Templar colors. Give me Dorn or Give me Death!
The problem is solved. The Imperial Fists contrast yellow works pretty well.
Thou shalt underpaint thy yellow with brown
First off: Basecoat your minis in the proper color.
Secondly: Yellow paint is honestly nowhere near as bad a problem as it used to be.
If there’s no body, no traitors are bragging about killing him, and the only piece of his body or war gear, that’s been found is a hand he’s not dead
Exactly.
Especially with the "no traitors are bragging"
If a traitor legion killed a loyalist Primarch they'd flaunt that shit for all it's worth.
That is true. Claiming the death of a Primarch would be to big of a brag to pass on
Mayhaps he lost the hand in a teleportation accident? Someone teleporting him off the ship against his will?
@@WASDLeftClick ah yes hes in a certain museum
@@calebmcallister4289 Dorn would be approaching Angron with constipation levels of pissed off if he actually had been in Trayzn's museum locked in a stasis field for thousands of years and was released into the 41st Millennium.
With Dorn, it's entirely possible for him to be being held by Purterabo. As it was an Iron Warriors craft that he was lost on covering a retreat, seen being mobbed. His return can be a result of escaping as his brother is helping Abbadon/ Vashtorr, the great rift opening and hearing Goalers talk about Guilliman's return. Dorn would be the defender of Sanctus, the Nids coming from where they are gives a reason for him, Lion of Nihillus thus allowing Guilliman to be more the statesman again.
5:54 "...he (Dorn) was dealt a rough hand"
Thank you, Luetin.
I actually think that Dorn is by far the most narratively interesting Primarch to return because of his potential tension with Gulliman. "You did not trust me with my own sons, yet trust yourself with the entire galaxy. You who proclaimed your own Imperium while I fought and bled upon terra". However, Dorn will probably be one of the last to return because Imperial Fists are fairly unpopular and business comes first.
people like the templars though i think
@tobster9567 Damn right they like the Templars 😂
@@Grim-Crusader yeah, yep this checks out here.
Yeah he should have been the 1st to return, gman had this elaborate resurrection because blue berries sold the best, that’s it. That whole gman storyline should have been a massive tease and then last second the Pretorian comes out of nowhere to save the day. Blueberry lovers would have lost it lol
@@tobster9567 Pretty sure dorn wouldn't like the black templars lol
I love the idea that Dorn is under glass in Trazyn's museum. I think that could make a great story.
He stole the amber sarcophagus. Brilliant. Please let Black Templars find him. 40k requires violence.
Aaaand fail because of Warp shenanigans. Try again next edition Templars.
Seriously though, Dorn under Glass is an amazing place for him.
All I need is an Ark of Blood Ravens and Trazyn robbing each other until they wake Dorn.
@@StormDunakinA sarcophagus labeled "Do not open under any circumstance"
Traizyn explaining it to the Blood Ravens that it's crucial to the balance of the galaxy that this item will be kept in his possession, because it contains "anti-chaos", a form of very angry order that will move about and change the structure of the galaxy in ways not seen in millennia.
And after some going back and forth, the lock comes off...
And then we find out that the Black Templars really are related to Dorn.
He's bound to have at least one Primarch in there, I don't think his OCD could handle not having one.
I disagree, specifically regarding Rogal Dorn. He's also not dead, it was retconned. He's one of the more interesting primarchs as well.
Brilliant analysis, really. This raised a lot of good points, fantastic use of Tasha Yar and Walking Dead as examples. I have to challenge this on its basic foundation of "a character should not return because it cheapens their death". Once we sort of dispense with "is he dead or not", we have to examine the basic premise, and that is, does a returning from the dead character somehow cheapen anything such as the story, narrative, plot, or emotional impacts of said character's actual death? Do the majority of 40k fans REALLY feel it would? No, I don't think so. We already have a HUGE population of characters in 40k that die and return: Demons, Greater Demons, Demon Lords, Demon Primarchs, and more. Sure, that's Chaos, but we also have perpetuals, Eldar, and even Vulkan, who has come back many times. We see them dying over and over again, 10, 100, 1,000,000 of them, it doesn't matter, many come back, or CAN come back. When we look at characters that may come back, Primarchs in particular, we're not talking about a large population. Very few of them are actually considered "dead", and one, Kurze, is dead but his soul is likely trapped in a soulstone-type device, so he very well may be able to return quite readily. We also have significant and consistent evidence of Ferrus and Sanguinius both still somehow existing at least in part after death, so I'm not sure we can say ANY of them actually ARE dead or CAN "stay dead". The ONLY one I can identify as definitely dead, but with no evidence at all of any kind of existence after their death, is Alpharius, and even THAT may possibly be explained as his "half" of a soul simply flows back into Omegon and becomes one again. But that's a speculative 'what if" and beyond the scope of this discussion. Should Dorn return, I don't believe it will have any kind of detrimental impact or effect, it will just be a jaw dropping, heroic return and the fandom will go stark raving bonkers for it.
" In all seriousness, Rogal Dorn was dealt a rough hand..." my coffee left my nasal passages at high velocity
Ba-dum-tissss!!!
Strangely enough, as a Texan, I have a deep appreciation for British humor 😊
Snirk. Yep caught that.
Sorry, Luetin, but the almighty chaos god of profits demands the return of every primarch
Facts.
Chaos God Economos!!!
Truth be told, I think that's why they make some of these primarch "deaths" so open so that when they do come back its not against the lore completely
That way, GW can respect the lore AND make money 😂
My thoughts exactly lol it's all about money at the end of the day.
This is true
Great video, actually changing my mind with how you explain the potential undermining of the entire lore
Love the vid luetin! Always much appreciated lore master
Dorn: "I'd give you a hand but I only have one left"
This was... disarming 🤣
I will let you live for being technically accurate.
This is the sound of a one hand man clapping.
But, they have the other one stored, so he COULD literally give you a hand 🤣.
"Vulcan makes an off-hand reference to Dorn" har har
Gotta love those short form content videos from Luetin to be honest.
Like that Luetin lost a friend xD
I can hear Valrak screaming already!
He’s dead …. In pretend!
Which is how he survived
a game of pretend
even your videos about Chaos and the warp have less heretical titles
DORN LIVES
Stomp stomp
*build build*
First thing I thought was “He’s in Trazyn’s Museum in a stasis field and Trazyn’s still salty about not getting the hand - and he is in fact working on his plan to retrieve it!” Speaking of things being like a soap opera, I was a teenager in the 1980s and I’ll never forget that in “Dallas” they decided to bring Bobby Ewing back from the dead by having him step out of the shower. A whole series had happened in the meantime with his funeral, grieving and people moving on with their lives, but apparently “it was all a dream” of Pamela, his wife. The collective eye roll was so huge that it could be picked up by seismic activity monitors across the known universe!
Kurze entire character is that he strives to make his visions come true so he can blame someone else.
Like father like son
Yarrick's death really ought to have been decided Battle of Oghram style, culminating in an epic, decisive duel between him and Ghazghkull in which the outcome of the Third War for Armageddon hung in the balance.
I think there is plenty of room in the lore for Dorn to return in a satisfying way. I agree with the points about diminishing returns and the soap opera effect if they were to bring back un-equivalently dead primarchs such as sanguinius or ferrus manus but Dorn lies very much in the unsatisfying and 'then he was gone' of the iffy late 80's and early 90's lore. Like most things it will depend how they do it. GW could develop an amazing return for Dorn that ties together the loose threads of the old lore and drives the story forward. Or they could fuck it up and have everyone thinking why did they do that.
Thank you, I understood a lot after watching your video
Ohhh Valrak’s _not_ gonna be happy.
He isnt happy. He challenged leutin to a table top battle elsewhere in the comments.
Valwak can cwy about it until he leawns how to say his "R's" cowwectly.
*Dorn voice* "No."
"Oh hell naw"
Yeeeeeeeeeeess
this new outro music is a nice touch.
i had a feeling today was going to be a good day, when a new luetin video drops
Oh...oh leutin. You've definitely got the inquisition looking for you with renewed vigor for this one. GREAT TOPIC imo.
Him not getting to come back means he can't be fitted with his own augmetic "imperial fist"
In my mind - Guilliman gets stabbed and goes into stasis
Corax/Leman and Kahn dissapear around m32/33
Lion gets sleeped right after caliban blows up m31
Vulkan fights war of beast and then also dissapears
Rogal actually stays active right up till m36, feeling the solitude that guilliman does as the sole survivor amomgst the loyalists and the pain of the battles with the iron warriors 😊
But he wasn't there during the war of the Beast? Has to be before.
Side note about major character dying: In my opinion, one of the best scenes ever: Sarah Connor chronicle, around the end of series if I remember correctly, the guy soldier from the future, gets killed, shot in the head by a terminator. The machine just pop's him in the head and continues walking, going after the main hero. No stopping, no looking at the body. No emotion.
That's epic screen writing.
Hope I porteyed it right. XD
Cheers
Luetin09: "Dorn was delt a rough hand."
**Ba Dum Tss!**
I thought Peter Turbo was also a daemon primarch of chaos undivided
He the daemon prince of man children
He might be ... or of that new deamon warztak or whathisname. But hopefully not. I think it is unknown but he is dying from wounds during the heresy. I hope he just beaten the virus that makes those oblitorators growing guns from their bodies turning him into an armoured gun platform 😂. Like a titan in size
Valrak vs Luetin incoming....and Im TOTALLY here for it.
I know all this "what primarch should return" business is finicky at best but I'm just glad to know that my grandchildren will be able to enjoy the return of the Emperor.
“I wish Leutin would make a video about Rogal Dorn” *Monkey’s paw curls*
As always, delightful
I love all Luetin09 videos!
Quiet outro music?! The sleep club is truly blessed with this one. Great video as always.
But Conrad Curze must come back because we need a good guy to root for😂
Being in a soul stone you get one of two options. A sane Conrad in a bone wraith construct or a entire Eldar Craftworld a house of horrors. Probably B option.
Curze coming back would ruin the entire culmination of his arc.
@@verilyveronica8430
I can imagine Conrad as maybe a soul parasite he's not capable of existing without a gene wrought body capable of housing him, he'd have to jump from body to body and probably end up having to do a deal with the likes of Fabious bile just to avoid being killed and sucked back to the warp. I'd imagine he'd be just pissed off since he was basically imprisoned in his crown for this long and wouldn't like to go back in so he'd do what he knows how to do and terrorise everything in order not to go back. Some Nightlords would follow him but most really wouldn't care about their dad who hated them coming back they'd probably be terrified of the idea. But that's just me.
What about Ferrus? Have him be just a head stuck on top of a dreadnought
@@cousinzeke4888 Not if he returns as a loyalist
Guillemin's return thanks to the Ynnarii is more desperation in the 'End Times' kinda deal. The Imperium and even some hard core anti-Xeno Imperials have made deals with at least Alderi if things were bad enough. So I would argue it wasn't out of left field and lets face it, Guillemin was the only Primarch who was rational enough to be generally okay with such an alliance.
I always appreciate the random futurama reference. I waiting for the whale biologist to appear in one of your shortest videos ever.
My normal calm has been compromised by this video.
I think the Primarchs of "lesser" legions (except Manus obviously) would be more interesting to the current setting. Corax or the Khan probably would have the most notable changes to the setting. Corax being a sorta man-demon like Saint Celestine is pretty interesting, the Ecclesiarchy and Inquisition would probably implode with the contradictions to their beliefs. The Khan coming back would mean he might've figured out some secrets regarding the webway. Russ also could be an interesting one if he has discovered some great secret to reviving Big E. Vulkan could easily be next but I don't see how he changes the story as much besides potentially being sent to deal with the aftermath of the Octarius disaster.
I do think Rogal Dorn being in the warp affected an molded by it like Corvus Corax would be an interesting sighting of him. Trying to defeat chaos in a new form
The eye of terror is only smaller than the size of the forehead vein of dorn after finding out about the black templar legion. Even the world eaters would tell him to chill.
@@andrewryan8507 unless he comes out wearing the black i doubt he is gonna take well the current state of the imperium. Especially what Sigismund did with his chapter.
Is perturabo not a undivided champion of chaos as well? Could have sworn he was
Bro.. Looking forward and would love to watch your story about Fabius and Mephiston.
If lorgar comes it’s basically guaranteed Corvus will come
huh? Lorgar never died.
@@TearDownGenesis I never said he died, hes just in hiding because corvus has been stalking him, if lorgar returns to the setting and leaves hiding corvus is going to try and kill him.
Oh no, if primarchs are returning my primarch must return too.
Blood Angels fans: ....😢
I need Dorn back so he can spot me at the gym. It takes a strong man to spot someone bench pressing more than 45 pounds!
As a Thousand Son whose primarch is already on the tabletop, it's overrated
FERRUS WILL GET BACK UP!!!
Everyone knows he's in the imperial palace, wearing a suit of centurion armor
And the imperiums finest facial hair now to boot!
Horus when he gets brought back:
"The news of my death was... greatly exaggerated."
good video! i never had to ask this before.... but what is the name of the soundtrack at 5:30 to 6:47 ? sounds epic as hell
I love how this comes just right after valraks stream collapses, this will be a fun watch
Habeas Corpus
Show me the body!
Somewhere a lonly howl is in the WInds.
One whispers, it was Chapter Master Valracs cry , as he saw your Lore Video
Horus, Alpharius, Sanguinius, Ferrus, and Curze are the few primarchs that I hope never return in their former glory or without a significant narrative change. However, I think 40k could greatly be improved with Rogal Dorn’s return. It would be interesting to see Gulliman so excited to see his brother and have another voice of the now forgotten imperial truth, only for Rogal to now be a staunch zealot like the Black Templars. Seeing him take his logical reasoning to the extreme, while Gulliman tries to reason with him would be compelling. I can almost hear their conversation now.
“I believed in Our Father’s dream Roboute, I conquered planets to remove the notion of so called “gods” from the very fabric of the stars. Back then I would not be strayed from the Imperial Truth, I trusted that gods were just the imaginary playthings of an unsophisticated Old Terra. But then…I fought against them, sacrificed my own sons by the thousands, and saw my most cherished brother kill the angel and The Emperor because of these gods of chaos. I know now that gods exist, and if Our Father bested them then he too must be a god. After all these millennia, it is clear the only difference between our crusade and the countless ones before it, is that we are fighting for the true god of humanity”
Regarding primarchs returning and the greater 40K universe, I'm not convinced about the possible "cheapening" of all of the setting: does the return of a primarch actually impact that much the greater narrative? Sure, it's a big shakeup for their respective chapters and the galaxy as a whole, but Roboute didn't whipe out Nurgle, nor did the Lion kill Szarekh, for example. Tbh, since they came back, things have been going quite downhill for the imperium lol. I don't think that a complete and total victory for the imperium could be achieved even if all primarchs actually came back, but it would expand tremendously the range and possibilities for future stories, tales and events in-universe. The only possibility of some kind of "end times" for 40K ever happening would include the Emperor returning, but I don't think GW will ever stretch that far.
On the Kurze stuff, I don't put too much weight into it for one simple reason. Kurze saw Rogal Dorn's death. That's all that means is that, at some point in the future, Dorne will die... but that doesn't mean he dies when he disappears. His death could come AFTER his return during the End Times event when they're putting a button on the franchise. That's the problem with prophecy, there's a million ways it could be fulfilled.
I think a better reason Dorn isn't on the horizon (and may never return) is from Ashes of Prospero. Done at the time of Magnus's return, a stormcaller basically lays out a release schedule when he's looking for signs of Russ. He mentions Mortarian, Angron, Fulgrim, and Lorgar for the traitors and Lion, Khan, and Corax for the loyalists. Every returning primarch, past that point, have been ones from that vision.
Khan is almost certainly next. He's somewhere in the webway... what's the main baddie doing right now? Messing around in the webway with his new macguffin from Arks of Omen. There's a direct line of logic to draw between Arks ending with Abaddon in the webway and Khan returning FROM the webway. Likewise, I see a direct narrative thread for Corax to return when Lorgar does (which, via rumor, may have already happened somewhere).
Aside from the prophecy of Kurze, I just don't see Dorn returning because there's no mechanism in place for his return. All the others mentioned in that prophecy have had major teasers hinting at an impending return OR logical narrative threads that connect directly to the current thrust of the narrative.
The important thing to remember here is that we, the audience, we KNOW that Konrad was not always correct. So it is possible that Konrad honestly believed what he saw and what he said, but was simply wrong.
And then again it is possible someone *cough*Alpharious*cough* knew about it, and decided to ... intervene!
Vashtor has exited the Webway so i dont think the Khan is as possible to return as it was before.
They're not doing an End Times lol😂
@@lordmalal I use the 'End Times' as a short-hand to reference the end of the setting... and all settings end, either by attrition or choice. To think that 40k will go on forever in its current incarnation is foolish. The end always comes.
I need the rivalry of Perty and Dorn. Their war against each has so much narrative ore left to be mined.hopeful during the the great scouring we have ultimate showdown that once2and for all , who's the greatest wall holder in 40k lore.
I saw title, immediately went to comments to look for Valrak's response 😂😂
I’d love to see a dorn perty rematch! DORN LIVES
Primarchs just kind of warp reality around them, they're the closest 40k has to main characters. Personally I find adding too many leads to the issue where every major event will need to include them or vice versa an event is not considered significant if it doesn't. Perhaps the Emperor was wise to make sure humans ultimately led the Imperium, as it's a little more narratively interesting to see the common man struggle than the super human demigod. That being said, super-human demigod fight scenes are very cool.
Great vid.
Dorn comes back as a pissed off Black Templar. CRUSADE
i appreciate the critical eye you have when discussing 40k lore. with the setting's popularity, i've seen many people get into the habit of defending every writing decision as being as good as their overall view of the universe. you manage to be both deeply interested in the franchise while not letting that interest cloud your judgement on what is a collective project, made up of both good and bad contributions.
there have been more than a few occasions where i've heard you bring up a tidbit of lore, think to myself about how that doesn't really work, only for you to proceed to take the words out of my mouth and put that criticism forth yourself.
as far as this discussion goes, i definitely think being conservative when it comes to bringing back characters from the dead is for the best, lest writing consequences become meaningless (no one's ever truly gone) , as well as compromising the atmosphere of the imperium as a stagnant and decaying behemoth.
Yeah. Rezzing characters lowers impact of every character. See Disney bringing back palpatine.
Additionally, it hacks at the grimdark basis of WH40K
@@thejohnbeck It's not a rez if he was never killed. It's basically a cardinal rule in writing that if a character's death wasn't shown, they are alive. If they wanted to tie off that knot for more impact, such as with Sang, Conrad, etc, they would have... but they didn't. To me this points to it being far more likely than not that we will see a return for Dorn.
As the artist who visually designed and drew Sabbathiel in the 40k comic trilogy, I'm kinda happy to hear some love for the character.
That Walking Dead shot... was that a tiger?
Yeah, the tiger king had a personal tiger and also had at least a cringey speech in every episode. Season 8 ... the worst tv ever made. Season 7 all was like a serbian film, torture stuff and violence which made all watching a zombie show with their kids turn it off. So season 8 was a crappy war were everyone shot massive amounts of bullets at each other. Even though in previous season the lack of ammunition made guns useless. So they had to restart the show for season nine and move it like 5 years forward and into medevial times. No bullets or gasoline and zombies again.
@@henrikgallon It jumped the shark after season 6.
Worse a cgiger.
Yeah, one of the characters, Ezekiel, was a zookeeper who took care of a tiger.
@@judesheckelberg5135 that is one weird expression as a non native speaker. Like the swedish one would be : well, the scriptwriters really took a shit in the blue cabinet.
That is a based on a swedish custom were you had all your really nice plates and things in a blue cabinet and NOT the potty. And someone had made the mistake of using the fancy bowl as the potty, hence really f-ed up.
so i wanna make a couple points and arguments. 1 perterabo is technically an undivided deamon primarch and lorgar was affected. 2 none of the confirmed dead primarchs have or seem like they will come back (curze, horus, ferrus, sanguinis, alpharuis/omegon whichever it actually was) 3. the returns are less the problem and more how they write them into a corner for no reason and have to plot armor them out (emps ressurection of guilliman after he got shit stomped by mortarian and lion who would have gotten destroyed by angron without emps shield) and that is far more damaging to the danger of death than any returns. 4. Dorn has never been confirmed dead(curze is insane plus not all his visions are accurate and it said inevitable death meaning he will die not that he has yet) he is (currenty) missing rumored dead but really all we know is he lost a hand, any chaos group that managed to kill Dorn of all people would have paraded it around like if they killed big E himself. 5 him returning makes the most sense in the current storyline. with vashtorr being so important and perterabo being a ally of him it makes sense that perty will be back soon and his polar opposite is dorn. on top of that with the rumblings of parts of big E waking up his most loyal Guard returning makes sense. 6. take Lions return short amnesia and other things that caused a major change in personality to a more calm rational man. Dorn is the perfect target for this if whatever happened to him to cause his disappearance left him comatose it would be the optimal time to embrace his more hateful side that caused the black templars and see him follow the path of his son sigismund, and eventually lead to him probably being the first of the returning primarchs to kill another or die at anothers hands. 7. last big point, think of the emperor's artifacts sword, shield, claw (sword a status symbol of power and rule guiliman, shield a symbol of a defending warrior shielding humanity Lion, the claw a symbol of power and tyranny over his domain ready to crush anything that opposes ally or foe) the claw could fit two Corvus a redeemer meant to remove that taint and show it could be a symbol of safety or Dorn replacing his missing fist as he dons the black and lets loose his inner rage to consume all that oppose him becoming akin to Emps when he went to stom Horus' ship war and death incarnate
Strange request, but could we get a playlist of the music you use in the background of your videos, Luetin?
But he's the one I want returning the most!
Yeah,and destroy all the mystery...
Him staying dead would echo the fate of Ferrus Manus in a sense. But whereas such an event changed the Iron Hands for the worst, it changed the Imperial Fists for the better.
Perhaps Dorn could return as a corpse. A fallen demi-god, honoured for his heroism and sacrifice, his remains become a banner which all imperial fists and their successors rally around to push back against the threats as a crusade unto themselves.
Imagine thinking Alpharius is dead. He just wants you to think he's dead.
"Dorn was given a pretty rough hand." Yeah, I see what you did there.
Frankly, I thought it was bad for the setting to bring Gulliman back.
Mcu phase 1-3 style. Introduce the ones rhat CAN be alive, one by one, and develop the narrative until it converges on terra, octarius on steroids. Ork waagh? Yes. Tyranid fleet of a quintillion organisms? Yes. Silent king with united awakened necrons? Yes. Birth of ynnead? Yes. Death of the emperor, opening of the web way portal under the palace, introduction of dark Eldar and demons and after some time, the rebirth of the emperor from the warp? Yes. But they also need to figure out a way that things can be happening simultaneously and not just at terra. Need to bring in the Exodites and tau somehow but not in an eyerolling kind of way
It is very funny that in a video about Dornyou completely forgot about Perturabo when you were going over the demon primarchs
Dorn: *dies*
Lucius: “and I took that personally”
This guy just hates the imperial fists.
And it will be his traitorous doom.
I respect his lore breakdowns but he’s a blueberry lover to the end.