State Missile Troops should have a Fire by Rank rule that lets them fire in two ranks. Maybe tie it to passing a leadership test or something, but letting them represent their training through extra shots would be really good.
State Troops should have a rule like warband, same leadership bonus as warband but instead of reroll charge let them buff the leadership of priest that join them. That would have the feel of the Priest drawing on the faith of their fallowers to cast their prayers.
The empire rules really feel as though they are not well thought out. Priests with mediocre leadership? Pistoleers with impetuous with a charge range greater than pistol range and terrible stats. My only hope for empire is the upcoming supplement, maybe they will try to correct some of these horribly written rules.
@@brianabela4533 The empire rules feels as if they were made first as a baseline for the other factions, and then they had power creep during development, yet they never returned to calibrate the rules for The Empire before release and now their troops are utter garbage compared to everything else.
Agree State Troops need help and the Priest needs better Leadership. A problem is that State troops (T3, light armour) die like flies, so they never get to fight back, which is frankly really boring to play with. State Troops with Fight in Extra Rank would be better - at least then they get a chance to roll some dice in combat. (I just had a tournament, in which in five games my two units of 32 State Troop halberdiers didn't once fight back in a combat!).
It frustrates the hell out of me that the clergy of the Warrior Gods Sigmar and Ulric, whose doctrine requires that the Empire be defended by trained warriors, have lower Ld than veteran state troops. Priests and High Priests should be Ld 8 & 9 respectively, and Witch Hunters should be able to pick their specialty at the same time wizards are picking their spells.
A few thoughts from a more narrative perspective: The Warrior priests of Ulric and Sigmar being in the same army list in this age is kind of a narrative mis-step, as those cults back different factions in the ongoing civil war. I would probably just have included a generic warrior priest and left the god specific ones for armies of infamy. This would also take care of the issue with sigmarite priests and wizards appearing in the same list. Btw, the War hasn't been built yet either. State Troops shouldn't be a thing. They are introduced by Magnus AFTER the great war against chaos. Instead the empire should probably have levies and veteran soldiers (people who already have experience from previous wars). I imagine those to be more costumizable/have more upgrade options (less formalizedd) but be somewhat worse than traditional state troops. A professional standing army for the empire shouldn't be a thing yet! Greatswords having full plate is so not consistent with the models! That's partial plate, which is probably better represented by heavy armor. This would also open up a tactical slot for something like Teutogen guard as a special Middenland Army of Infamy unit. Demigryphs don't really match their description (never did). They're explicitly described as better in sustained combat than on the charge (compared to horses). The gunnery school doesn't exist yet. Gunpowder should be more limited than in Whfb. Humans are currently in the beginning of making their own guns (rather than getting ones from the dwarfs). I'd put a big questionmark on pistoliers and especially outriders. Volley guns and rockets may also be questionable (the timeline isn't clear here, but if available at least the hellblaster is really new). The Hellstorm rocket battery was named after an incident involving Boris Todbringer! So at least the name is deeply anachronistic.
@@stevenrothwell19 Idk, a lot of the stuff I mention can be addressed with simple rules changes (not mixing warrior priests, levies instead of state troops,...)
Let me blow a hole in your essay. They’ve stated there’s more stream tanks than in 8th ed. Thus could be the same for handguns and the like. State your source.
Warhammer art: Almost all the Empire art is state troops with regular weapons heroically fighting the enemy in ranks, aided by the fantastical elements. The tabletop: Panzer Commander Johann Wizard the 4th leads the Empire's 9283747th steamtank, archers and the Demigryphs (they must be as common as squirrels in Empire forests). Together they bail out the poor sods and officers that dared rank up. I personally would give State Troops "Horde" (which is described in the rules as warriors fighting in tight ranks... oh GW, your dictionary ever remains unopened) - The +1 CR would really help State troops. (Free Warbanner!). I dont want State troops to trounce HE spearmen or Dwarves, but at least be as competitive as MAA. Right now, if you want a fluffy Empire List... you go with brettonian exiles. I'd bribe GW for pikemen, improved infantry and free co, demis to rare, and flagellants to special. Let Witch hunters change their bonus before turn 1, not in the list. I kinda like Priests being lower leadership... if they were cheaper.
Good to see my favourite empire unit (the free company) got a solid smash. I like to have a witch hunter join them just for fun but also because I always play chaos so I get the rerolls.
Agree with most of this. Its frustrating that the most fluffy Empire types - fanatical Priests and ranks of steady State Troop halberdiers and handgunners - are complete rubbish. Gotta disagree on Flagellants. Unless Flagellants can charge (which is hard as they are infantry) they are T3 and no armour so they lose most of their fighting rank and never get to hit back. At 13 points they are too expensive to be a tarpit.
I still think that The Empire should count all armor save as 1 better than usual: "empire forged steel". And their missile troops should be able to fire in two ranks: "fire by rank" or "first rank second rank fire".
Great discussion. As a vehicle for presenting this type of info, I prefer tier lists because they allow for a clearer distinction between elements (which you can define yourself) than attempting to describe gradations of smash lol. E.g. S tier- always take; A- above average; B- performs as expected; C- situationally good; D- terrible +/- F- never take
Stuff your priest in with veteran troops and they get to re-roll their prayers, that is veteran state troops and inner circle knights... that is where the priests should go. Easily worth 60p for their buffs and the additional combat power. I like Sigmar priests with state troops and Ulric priests with the knights.
Smash the bretonnian list? I used to think the exiled baron army was the “we have empire at home” list. Lately I’m thinking it’s the other way around. Exiled baron makes the empire look like “we have empire at home”
Ive always felt that empire generals should turn a specific unit into a core choice (in the same vein as a Black Or Warboss makes 1 unit of Black Orcs core). Genral of the Empire for Greatswords Grand Master for inner circle Leftor of Sigmar for Flagellants
Infantry are inherently poor in this edition because of the core rules, but Empire Infantry are both over priced and poor value as they don’t have the millions of rules other factions infantry gets to at least mitigate that inherent sh*tness. It’s really disappointing for a much loved faction whose main aesthetic is serried ranks of trained foot. Yes, you can spam Demigryphs and knights and three Level 4 wizards to be competitive but that’s the only way you’ll do well.
pretty weird the warrior priest doesnt have an ability to buff or effect moral. since thats kinda the supernatural thing they are MOST known for besides being good warriors. Steeling the resolve of the troops.
The ants go marching one by one hura hura, The ants go marching one by one hura hura, The ants go marching one by one hura hura, The ants go marching one by one hura hura.
nice video but to be honest, this is all a bit depressing. I aware that this is mostly from a competative view but I wish GW would finally manage a game that doesn't have so many flaws....mages for example...level 2 wizards used to be useful....and so on and so on
Infantry are inherently poor in this edition because of the core rules, but Empire Infantry are both over priced and poor value as they don’t have the millions of rules other factions infantry gets to at least mitigate that inherent sh*tness. It’s really disappointing for a much loved faction whose main aesthetic is serried ranks of trained foot. Yes, you can spam Demigryphs and knights and three Level 4 wizards to be competitive but that’s the only way you’ll do well.
State Missile Troops should have a Fire by Rank rule that lets them fire in two ranks. Maybe tie it to passing a leadership test or something, but letting them represent their training through extra shots would be really good.
all missile troops should be able to fire in two ranks.
I mean, you cant tell me that imperial troop dont know that the first rank Can shoot crouched to let the second shoot
@@bleizh_le_rat See we need a mixed Empire unit with Men in the back, Dwarves in the middle and halflings up front so everyone can shoot
State Troops should have a rule like warband, same leadership bonus as warband but instead of reroll charge let them buff the leadership of priest that join them. That would have the feel of the Priest drawing on the faith of their fallowers to cast their prayers.
The empire rules really feel as though they are not well thought out. Priests with mediocre leadership? Pistoleers with impetuous with a charge range greater than pistol range and terrible stats. My only hope for empire is the upcoming supplement, maybe they will try to correct some of these horribly written rules.
@@brianabela4533 The empire rules feels as if they were made first as a baseline for the other factions, and then they had power creep during development, yet they never returned to calibrate the rules for The Empire before release and now their troops are utter garbage compared to everything else.
Agree State Troops need help and the Priest needs better Leadership.
A problem is that State troops (T3, light armour) die like flies, so they never get to fight back, which is frankly really boring to play with. State Troops with Fight in Extra Rank would be better - at least then they get a chance to roll some dice in combat. (I just had a tournament, in which in five games my two units of 32 State Troop halberdiers didn't once fight back in a combat!).
It frustrates the hell out of me that the clergy of the Warrior Gods Sigmar and Ulric, whose doctrine requires that the Empire be defended by trained warriors, have lower Ld than veteran state troops. Priests and High Priests should be Ld 8 & 9 respectively, and Witch Hunters should be able to pick their specialty at the same time wizards are picking their spells.
This is a great and comprehensible format! Please continue it for the Old World factions!
@@olavc.oevele1902 I agree. Informative and fun. Do it for orcs and goblins please.
A few thoughts from a more narrative perspective:
The Warrior priests of Ulric and Sigmar being in the same army list in this age is kind of a narrative mis-step, as those cults back different factions in the ongoing civil war. I would probably just have included a generic warrior priest and left the god specific ones for armies of infamy. This would also take care of the issue with sigmarite priests and wizards appearing in the same list. Btw, the War hasn't been built yet either.
State Troops shouldn't be a thing. They are introduced by Magnus AFTER the great war against chaos. Instead the empire should probably have levies and veteran soldiers (people who already have experience from previous wars). I imagine those to be more costumizable/have more upgrade options (less formalizedd) but be somewhat worse than traditional state troops. A professional standing army for the empire shouldn't be a thing yet!
Greatswords having full plate is so not consistent with the models! That's partial plate, which is probably better represented by heavy armor. This would also open up a tactical slot for something like Teutogen guard as a special Middenland Army of Infamy unit.
Demigryphs don't really match their description (never did). They're explicitly described as better in sustained combat than on the charge (compared to horses).
The gunnery school doesn't exist yet. Gunpowder should be more limited than in Whfb. Humans are currently in the beginning of making their own guns (rather than getting ones from the dwarfs). I'd put a big questionmark on pistoliers and especially outriders. Volley guns and rockets may also be questionable (the timeline isn't clear here, but if available at least the hellblaster is really new). The Hellstorm rocket battery was named after an incident involving Boris Todbringer! So at least the name is deeply anachronistic.
This os some fine work you did here! Lets hope they get it right when the fluff kicks in!
Your lore knowledge is top notch, but I think they are stuck with the models they have, unfortunately.
@@stevenrothwell19 Idk, a lot of the stuff I mention can be addressed with simple rules changes (not mixing warrior priests, levies instead of state troops,...)
@scelonferdi agreed, I should ha e specified the artillery.
Let me blow a hole in your essay. They’ve stated there’s more stream tanks than in 8th ed.
Thus could be the same for handguns and the like.
State your source.
Brilliant guide. Nicely illustrated. Tidy.
Warhammer art: Almost all the Empire art is state troops with regular weapons heroically fighting the enemy in ranks, aided by the fantastical elements.
The tabletop: Panzer Commander Johann Wizard the 4th leads the Empire's 9283747th steamtank, archers and the Demigryphs (they must be as common as squirrels in Empire forests). Together they bail out the poor sods and officers that dared rank up.
I personally would give State Troops "Horde" (which is described in the rules as warriors fighting in tight ranks... oh GW, your dictionary ever remains unopened) - The +1 CR would really help State troops. (Free Warbanner!). I dont want State troops to trounce HE spearmen or Dwarves, but at least be as competitive as MAA. Right now, if you want a fluffy Empire List... you go with brettonian exiles.
I'd bribe GW for pikemen, improved infantry and free co, demis to rare, and flagellants to special. Let Witch hunters change their bonus before turn 1, not in the list. I kinda like Priests being lower leadership... if they were cheaper.
These are some good ideas!
Good to see my favourite empire unit (the free company) got a solid smash. I like to have a witch hunter join them just for fun but also because I always play chaos so I get the rerolls.
You must have made a mistake with Flaggelants Mordian, the GW Rules team have confirmed for us that they are our premier dragon counter!
Dragons will always avoid a stubborn tar pit with hatred, so take lots of cannons.
Agree with most of this. Its frustrating that the most fluffy Empire types - fanatical Priests and ranks of steady State Troop halberdiers and handgunners - are complete rubbish.
Gotta disagree on Flagellants. Unless Flagellants can charge (which is hard as they are infantry) they are T3 and no armour so they lose most of their fighting rank and never get to hit back. At 13 points they are too expensive to be a tarpit.
I still think that The Empire should count all armor save as 1 better than usual: "empire forged steel".
And their missile troops should be able to fire in two ranks: "fire by rank" or "first rank second rank fire".
First one is a terrible bandaid lmao. Most foot troops barely have shoes, let alone quality armor that's better than Elf or Dwarf craftmanship
Oh, hey! I painted those Demigryph Knights! Didn't expect that at all!
Great discussion. As a vehicle for presenting this type of info, I prefer tier lists because they allow for a clearer distinction between elements (which you can define yourself) than attempting to describe gradations of smash lol. E.g. S tier- always take; A- above average; B- performs as expected; C- situationally good; D- terrible +/- F- never take
One of these for Orcs and Bretonia please :)
Bro. Get some knights. I’ll get you some if you want
They are great... And those renaissance armour aesthetics are 🥵🥵🥵🥵
They are printed, just need to paint them!
@@MordianGlory this guy wants me to purchase them… and then paint them! lol. Luckily for you I use yellows
Bro if I ever do Old World I’m a Knight heavy list. All the different orders on display? Fuck yeah.
Great video. More like this content would be great.
Great vid! Definitely would be an interesting series to take a survey of each army. Keep that 3D printer brrrring
Stuff your priest in with veteran troops and they get to re-roll their prayers, that is veteran state troops and inner circle knights... that is where the priests should go. Easily worth 60p for their buffs and the additional combat power. I like Sigmar priests with state troops and Ulric priests with the knights.
Smash the bretonnian list? I used to think the exiled baron army was the “we have empire at home” list. Lately I’m thinking it’s the other way around. Exiled baron makes the empire look like “we have empire at home”
Impetuous should be an LD test instead of a D6 diceroll
In the voice of the Incredible Hulk: “SOCK… SMAAASH!!!”
First unit of state troops should be veteran for free
Our smash and pass recommendations were exactly the same, glad to see i'm not the only one who thinks Warrior priests are trash.
Ive always felt that empire generals should turn a specific unit into a core choice (in the same vein as a Black Or Warboss makes 1 unit of Black Orcs core).
Genral of the Empire for Greatswords
Grand Master for inner circle
Leftor of Sigmar for Flagellants
Go on then, add Dogs of War? Which one? The galloping guns? The Ogres? Haflings?
Ogres mercs are back already, in the Orc journal. Any army can take them as mercenaries
Cool video. A version for the other factions would be great.
Beastie boys!
Infantry are inherently poor in this edition because of the core rules, but Empire Infantry are both over priced and poor value as they don’t have the millions of rules other factions infantry gets to at least mitigate that inherent sh*tness. It’s really disappointing for a much loved faction whose main aesthetic is serried ranks of trained foot. Yes, you can spam Demigryphs and knights and three Level 4 wizards to be competitive but that’s the only way you’ll do well.
pretty weird the warrior priest doesnt have an ability to buff or effect moral. since thats kinda the supernatural thing they are MOST known for besides being good warriors. Steeling the resolve of the troops.
The ants go marching one by one hura hura, The ants go marching one by one hura hura, The ants go marching one by one hura hura, The ants go marching one by one hura hura.
We'll all be dead before we're through hurah hurah.
Grand masters: mentioned with before but their stats and abilities compared to a Breton Baron when they cost 45% more is crazy
The Empire Gryphon costs more than Bretonnia’s gryphon, and the Bretonnia rider is much better in combat too.
😎😎
More smash and pass 🙏🏻
Don't demi's have a 2+ save, 4+ Full plate, 3+ shield, 2+ barding?
no full plate by default, you have to pay 5 points for it
An entire army-host of man-things? SMASH-STAB more-more glory-fame to great Clan Ratchit! 🐀 ⚡ 🔔 ⚡ 🐀
PLease do smash/pass for all old world armies!
nice video but to be honest, this is all a bit depressing. I aware that this is mostly from a competative view but I wish GW would finally manage a game that doesn't have so many flaws....mages for example...level 2 wizards used to be useful....and so on and so on
@@tomisopp975 there is not a single wargame out there where some units aren't better than others. Some are just more balanced than others.
If you put priests into a unit of veteran state troops or greatswords, would they benefit from veteran when rolling for their prayers?
No it was covered in the FAQ sadly.
@@AlasdairWeeks darn, thank you!
@redchow4743 Gleaming Pendent works though (once)
I wish my favourite army/faction was better, it really feels as if its mehhhhh compared to other armies.
So then the empire is just bad??
Did they legends some unit am sure there used to be more units than that the emprire and elector count to name just 2
Nah nearly all the classics came back, except named characters
Infantry are inherently poor in this edition because of the core rules, but Empire Infantry are both over priced and poor value as they don’t have the millions of rules other factions infantry gets to at least mitigate that inherent sh*tness. It’s really disappointing for a much loved faction whose main aesthetic is serried ranks of trained foot. Yes, you can spam Demigryphs and knights and three Level 4 wizards to be competitive but that’s the only way you’ll do well.