In case you're not aware, this is the EIGHTEENTH video in this channel's TSMC coverage. Here's the entire playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLKtxx9TnH76SRC7ZbOu2Nsg5mC72fy-GZ.html
I wonder why tsmc doesn't move some of it's production into developing countries with decent production capacities!! Such as Turkey can build that factory within a year not 3 years at all as it has enormous construction sector while severely lacking high tech production. So i think similar countries would be much better options than US or building another factory in Taiwan as not only those factories would become operational in less time also tsmc could cut costs significantly...
@@ggoddkkiller1342 $20bn is a huge investment. As mentioned in the video, tax incentives are important, as are stable, compliant government. High-end semiconductor manufacturing is considered a prestige industry for countries to have, so they will frequently offer large tax incentives to get companies to build there. Then there's a need for a ready supply of well-educated employees. Phoenix already has a history of semiconductor manufacturing, so there are local staff available to recruit. It's not really the availability of construction staff/equipment that's the issue; it's the work needed to get the cleanrooms up to spec, and the availability of the equipment. If ASML only produce 50 EUV machines per year for the entire industry, then that's going to limit the rate at which fabs can come online. Then you have the fact that they might not actually *want* to get the whole fab online in a year. As mentioned in the video, fab openings are deliberately phased so as to ensure that they don't all come online just as the industry goes into a downturn. Last thing you want is massive excess capacity sitting around depreciating, as it might be out-of-date by the time the next upturn comes. One only has to look at the DRAM cycles of the 80s and 90s to see how damaging that can be.
For forty years I was employed by a manufacturer of capital equipment for producing semi conductor chips. Twenty five of those years was directly involved with installing and modifying the machines in the field. I've been to almost every country that has a fab and spent years overseas working in fabs. TSMC, Samsung, Micron, Philips, Siemens, Intel, AMD, on and on. The people and technology are amazing. I watched the size of the chip shrink and speed increase beyond what was imagined when I started in 1980. I hold a number of patents for improving the speed and accuracy of our tools. I started in the industry coming from a car mechanic background and with self education and OJT became a valuable member of the team of people that changed the world with computes and all manor of electrical devices now using semiconductor chips. It is a fantastic technology and will be the future for all humans. Art👽
maybe a video about the Asian supply chains, like where raw materials are mined and then which semiconductor equipment companies in Japan and South Korea ship equipment into other Asian countries
@@arbaz79 You probably are referring to photoresists, which are coated on wafers. Japan previously added more customs red tape for their export to S Korea after the latter convicted Mitsubishi Heavy Industries of using slave labour in WW2.
Actually, for very expensive equipment with very specific and advanced applications, most of the time the producer doesn't know his machine capabilities better than the end user. They just build the machine on the client specifications, but they don't know how it actually works in order to produce something, since they have no way to actually use the machine for its intended purpose. I learned this first hand for sputtering machines.
Yes, and No. I've worked on these very tools for several years now. Often, the manufacturer has their own people on site for in depth troubleshooting and specific problem solving, as well as understanding a degree of the requirements by the end user. We make the tool do one thing, but they know how to make the tool do many things.
While an amazing decision from all involved, the Arizona foundry has tremendous potential on the international stage. Americans might not care for international politics much, but employ tens of thousands in any state and that'll surely raise some awareness for the yet-to-be-recognized country.
TSMC Arizona plant. The Taiwanese engineer are paid less than their white counter part and needed to work overnight shift while the white engineers don't. This reminds me of 1863 to 1869, roughly 15,000 Chinese workers helped build the transcontinental railroad. They were paid less than White American workers. The Asian engineers are looked upon as less worthy than their white so called colleagues. History is repeating itself. Racism is alive and well in USA.
Great content and production value. 👍🏼 I’m in manufacturing and led a project the past several to expand our production footprint from Asia into the Americas. Many of the criteria you mentioned are spot on. I would also add local talent pool as a critical factor for expansion success. The project ultimately failed (after lots of $...) for a variety of reasons, including social and political unrest. But one of the reasons was within our control - the team here didn’t have enough bandwidth to expand their operations to become a truly global manufacturing operation. Will be curious to see how TSMC creates their SWAT team for the initial critical start-up phase. Arizona Heat is dry heat (har har). Will be supporting your Patroen, keep up the good work and thank you. Oh, would be great if you haven’t already to better understand the chip manufacturing flow from raw material in to wafer out and what are the operational processes to support that, e.g. water and energy intensity, storage criteria, etc. You already mention the clean room and modular and scalable layout which are important. Thanks.
@@Asianometry You make it sounds like only TSMC and the Fab industry are dealing with ultra-complicated tasks of planning, constructing, fitting, staffing, and running a foundry. Perhaps your glorification of TSMC stems from your own limited experience to only the foundry business, but let me tell you that all businesses and organizations that are connected to mission critical operations have faced, are facing and will face similar challenges every single day. I've been in mission critical operations for decades and while I am impressed with what TSMC has achieved, I am much less impressed at your 拍马屁 presentation in this episode.
@@clocktower1164 I disagree with you and you are rude. If you have never worked at Fab as a semiconductor engineer, you have no idea the latest semiconductor fabrication needs to make everything precise down to nanometer scale. Except for semiconductor manufacturing, I have never heard about any industry that needs to be precise in nanometer scale. Civil aviation, space program, nuclear power plant, ship making, or high-speed railway are ultra-complicated, but semiconductor fab construction and operation is at a different level. If you are right on your claim, why there are only a few countries are capable to do semiconductor manufacturing beyond the 28-nm node? Why Intel, as a pioneering semiconductor manufacturer since the 80s, is now falling behind TSMC? Intel founded decades before TSMC and should have more experience on "ultra-complicated tasks of planning, constructing, fitting, staffing, and running a foundry". Why Intel is struggling now? You "might" be an experienced engineer in other fields. However, being an experienced engineer is not an excuse for being rude.
Thanks for making these great videos on topics I didn't know I wanted to know about. Perhaps you can talk about the M2 chip that Apple will be using next?
@@Asianometry Once you reach let's say 250,000 subscribers (10 times your current subscriber count) and have grown your Patreon proportionally from 81 subscribers to 810 subscribers it should become increasingly obvious that entertaining the global internet is far more financially lucrative than any professional career path you could possible have in Taiwan. Yes ad revenue, sponsorships and view counts may be a fickle income source, and you face global competition with your videos. But Patreon is consistent, as so is the user-base for quality content. It's enough to one day make the jump to being a full-time UA-cam creator. As a famous senate once said, "we will watch your career with great interest".
Nice video. You kind of take the machine that you are a part of for granted. One thing that stood out to me - ballroom and mini environment. For fab layout there are generally two (been a while since undergrad) - ball room and bay and chase. Then each tool , generally speaking, has their own mini-enviroment that has its own filters to further clean the air. Because of loadports that dock to the factory interface/EFEM (might be more terms for that depending on what toolset you work with), and FOUPs (wafer carrier) that have gaskets, you don't need a fab with as tight of a tolerance in air purity. The fab has laminar airflow, so air isn't pumped from outside as much as it's filtered. Filters on the ceiling, air flows down, through floor grates, and is filtered again.
I live in America and like to get my news from local news sources as i feel the reporting is more authentic. Nothing more local than a guy reporting from his bedroom in Taiwan lol.
thanks a lot, i’m a machenical automaition bachelor from GDUT and just got offer from TU Aachen, my mother uni get limit from USA and i just want to do something in MEMS to China, ur vedioes teaches a lots things what i want to know basic professional knowledge . Just thanks a lot
Only if someone can suddenly make the quality of machines like the level of ASML or operate their equipment well enough like TSMC Also ASML & TSMC helps each other improving the fab machines too, it's like the oven maker(ASML) providing the oven to the chef (TSMC) and then the chef after using the oven returns the advices on bettering the oven.
@@RedFoxAce Disruption usually happens when a smaller company fundamentally changes a process greatly cutting costs/output volume/production time so the large legacy company is left holding ancient IP and too many obligations to shift as fast.
@@RedFoxAce no such thing as never get caught. Canon and Nikon were once ahead of ASML... And soon even EUV won't be enough for the next faze of semiconductors
I've just found your channel. Love your work. I personally find your videos much more enjoyable at 1.5x speed hehehe. Anyway, thank you for doing this.
At least one bright side of the tsmc fab in Arizona is the construction industry out here is very familiar with semiconductor facilities as we already have global foundries, Intel, and I believe Samsung already in the Phoenix area
Wonderful video....can you please make a video about the hardware and software suppliers in the semiconductor industry like Lam research, applied materials, Synopsys and ASML...etc
@@Asianometry off course I watched it, great one indeed!... looking forward for videos about other suppliers if you can, probably this time about EDA tools, like Synopsys and Cadence... Cheers
@@Asianometry perhaps you can cover the software aspect in semiconductor industry. Especially in china. Software companies like Synopsys, ANSYS, Mentor graphics, Cadence... etc
I work in TSMC start from Fab6 then transfer to Fab14, now I am in F18. I wish more young people can join us, manpower shortages is seriously. TSMC is a shield to defend invasion from China Everyone should protect your own country, not just talk.
TSMC is building a MASSIVE factory here in Phoenix in the middle of the desert. I live about 10 minutes away from the construction. Just built a new house way north and enjoying the open desert air, going to be different as these big factories gobble up the space...
wow, this episode i had to pause many times just to take in the information on screen... ( i subscribed today, and have been watching your videos one after the next ...
Have been watching and enjoying your videos for a few weeks now. Having worked in the SEMI industry for about 13 years (now left) with all the biggies - TSMC, Samsung and Intel on the cutting edge nodes, I find your videos fascinating. You seem to be find information/pictures that would generally be hard to find. Keep up the good work! It's fun to watch some of the aerial pictures of the biggest fabs , identify them from the picture and then reminisce about the long hours spent inside some of those cleanrooms troubleshooting the WORLD'S TOUGHEST PROBLEMS :)) . Did you work at any of these giants?
Hello @asianometry, Glad YT algorithm suggested your channel. I am a college student with "Electronics" as my major. But I'm more interested in establishing a semiconductor fab startup. It would mean a lot if you share your thoughts on the same.
Photo goes in the center of your fab. Steppers can be rejected at delivery if the 747 or air ride truck lost temp control, were to steep or had to high of a g-load.
TSMC is a fascinating company! So many other companies depend on it for their own success. What happens when it reaches 1nm? go down to 0.5nm? Unimaginable (for now).
@@oblivion_2852 Yes, you are right. It is NOT a precise measure but that is what generally the public understands it to be relatively speaking. So the imprecision does give a sense of comprehension to the public. Thank you for highlighting it too.
@@harrykekgmail I'd argue it's the opposite... How many people work with nm? I find it easier to understand that 14nm would be 30 atoms or some such... I understand roughly how small an atom is
@@oblivion_2852 Motivated by your reply to read this: www.hpcwire.com/2020/06/01/10nm-7nm-5nm-should-the-chip-nanometer-metric-be-replaced/ But I am too non-tech to understand well but good enough to know that there are better measurements. LOL
IBM with Intel just announced 2nm (won't see consumer sales for years). Crazy. I wonder how small will nods get. In the past, I thought 5nm would be the limit.
Dropped a $5 m. semiconductor equipment has to be send back to Japan for recalibration. E-commerce deliveries if dropped should be send back to factory also, it has suffered trauma, on outside it may look fine. Everyone remember.
@@Peczhie When I am writing what I am thinking it is always complex. My sentences have slowly become complex over the years as I experience more English. English is not my 1st language, I may not have vocabulary on the level of literature writers but it is still somewhat complex.
Damn I wish this had come out 7 hours earlier, I was just finishing up a rushed research paper on the semiconductor shortage and would've loved to include more information on Fab construction but finding comprehensive sources was difficult. Speaking of which, have you ever considered throwing sources in the description? Your other videos were super helpful but I often found myself wanting to cite a specific detail but being unable to track down a print source (I cited your channel as a reference, but for individual claims in-text citing UA-cam videos is generally frowned upon sadly).
@@Asianometry I'll do that next time, thanks! Sadly I waited way too long to start this last paper and found myself scrambling, thankfully the previous months of watching your videos helped me make record time writing about such a complex topic. Honestly, I think I've learned more from this channel than I did the class (Political economy of East Asia), my professor is a talented guy but very old-school and very boring. So thanks for what you do!
Great video! Perhaps Americans in the South-West can explain where the water for the facility will come from. I thought the entire South-West was quite dry.
Water claims favor Arizona over California. They could’ve built on New Mexico , since Intel was around the block too. It comes to tax incentives, labor pool, and besides , Arizona can lure qualified CA workers over its lower living costs. I cringed when he mentioned New York. The Hudson Valley is vital on the water supply towards downstate. Semi conductor foundries demand more from local resources than what they bring in.
Great video, I am planning to buy some stock but I don’t know which is best for long term I am not use to stock investment, please help me or send me the best stock to buy for future at Least 1/2 yrs !
Congrats "Amelia babasa Woods" as you now have your mentor as the richest man in the world, hope this will be more profit🤑 for us. @presh, search for her on web and thank me later
@@victoriadavid4975 A CNBC news host spoke so highly of this💕 woman Amelia babasa Woods and her loss prevention strategies been trying to get to her ever since didn’t know she was so accessible to the public
@vicky, I have watch one of their interview on CNN Finance when you share your success story. Could you kindly drop the contacts here, I really want to have success investment portfolio like you?
Crypto er en flukt for investorer som ikke vil at krasjen skal påvirke helt. Dette er grunnen til at noen få som forstår tidene, benytter muligheten til å investere i kryptovalutaer, for det meste bitcoin. Søk et profesjonelt råd eller du en porteføljeforvalter
Can you do a video on nanoscale photonics fabrication ? Can TSCM and traditional fabs supprt Indium Phosphide, Galium Arsenide and polymer based layers to make photonic device on die ? These are already done for optical transceivers for switches but there is talk of wafer and die scale light based data transport coming up to deal with the heat issues of high frequency data planes on die.
Hi, thanks for the great content. Subscribed to both the channel and the newsletter. May I know what's yr background? Market research (Gartner/Forrester/etc), investment management, others...? Thanks!
Hi asianometry, Do you have time to make a video covering TSMC six 12" Fab in AZ for 5-nm technology and how it affects Intel? I work in the industry and highly doubt if the plan will work. First, AZ is a desert and I doubt there is enough water supply for six TSMC 12" Fab and the existing Intel Fab. Second, is there enough labor for TSMC in AZ? Currently, the software industry is in its golden age and a programmer can easily have 2 times or higher income than a semiconductor engineer. I guess that's the reason why the US is no longer in the leading role in semiconductor manufacturing. Third, the current chip shortage mainly in the automobile market, not in CPU, CPU, or any high-performance applications market, which is TSMC focus on. If TSMC builds another six 12" Fab in AZ, I am pretty sure that the high-performance applications market will be in oversupply and these 12" Fab in AZ won't be profitable in the future. Fourth, TSMC will do risk production on 3-nm technology (equals to Intel 5-nm) early next year. In the meantime, Intel is still struggling with its 10-nm technology (equals to TSMC 7-nm). Though the new Intel CEO claim 10-nm is on the track, no one knows if it is true given the 14-nm disastrous experience. If Intel 10-nm (TSMC 7-nm) is another disaster and intel's competitors apply TSMC 5-nm technology. It means Intel is falling behind at least two-generation. Can intel survive? Or eventually, separate its Fab and design department as AMD and GF did in 2008? If it is the latter, hundreds of thousands of Intel engineers will lose their job. Thanks
This video was likely to have been made before the current worldwide "semiconductors shortage" crisis. The shortage problems are not easily resolved by just building more clean rooms, whether in Arizona or in Taiwan. A new approach to the fabrication of the integrated circuits on the silicon wafers need to be developed. Scientists and researchers should explore the use of 3-D printing instead of the photographic process in the manufacturing of these integrated circuits.
@@chinogambino9375 The yields may actually increase as more of these simpler (and much cheaper) 3-D printers can be used producing the ICs in tandem. The ICs can be individually formed other than many ICs on a circular 12 inch wafer and then cut up. Need to do the necessary R & D to achieve this new method.
At the beginning of the video is stated fab 14 produces 13,000 wafers per month. That seems totally off, as the actual figure is way way higher - more like 130,000 wafers/mo
Counter parts of power generation plant, water processing plant, waste recycling plant, air purification plants, ... you may need a full hydrocarbon cracker plant to manufacture many items from waste and by-products and supporting infrastructure of small city in the near future for a full eco-system to manage every part of a product lifecycle.
thanks you for the video! My question is fabs needs so much water how is intel and TSMC fabs in Arizona make any sense? arizona is so dry, hot and no rain so where do they get all the water from?
I've watched every single one of your videos on fabrication... and it seems to me that, in our constant search for slightly faster phones and slightly more detailed video games, we are performing environmental atrocities. Some without even realising we're doing it. It feels like we are pushing ridiculous limits on semiconductor fabrication processes, before they are really perfected and/or stable.
renewable energy will need many semiconductors, maybe another video about how to compare fab process nodes (transistor density is more important than 'x nm' label)
As a Taiwanese, I am not optimistic about TSMC's new fab in AZ. It's just not how it works. Americans are too pampered to work night shifts and wear rabbit suits for long hours. It's a common sight in TSMC people work 10 hours in the fabs. Also, most employees in TSMC have at least a master's degree in STEM. lots of them are PhDs. In the US, most STEM master students are coming from abroad, which is retrained by H1B visa. The pay of EE is lower than CS, but the knowledge requirement is higher. I only heard of EE people switch to CS jobs. Taiwan has the cheapest highly educated STEM talents. Their salary is around 50k USD a year in Taiwan. If TSMC moves its employees to the US, it at least has to double its salaries to cover the living cost. Besides, the low cost of electricity, water, and land makes TSMC competitive. That is, the tax income from TSMC probably just breaks even how much the government subsidizes the water and electricity.
I can't wait until China pays a "visit" to little Taiwan....then you won't be calling the Americans who will defend your tiny island "pampered" will you?? I bet you got out of there long ago and are safely living in America, while bad-mouthing it every chance you get.
Can you please shed light on why TSMC would choose--of all places--Arizona, an extremely hot and arid region, currently experiencing drought, to build a fab requiring such an astonishing amount of water?
Could you talk about the benefits Intel has with having a Production facility in Ireland. There both in the European market so that would help with cost of shipping from the Netherlands and the distance is much shorter
The cost of shipping is not the main cost in semiconductor manufacturing. Semiconductor tool supply chain, latest technology with high yield, and massive workaholic engineers are the key factor. EU has a supply chain but lacks the latter two factors.
You know they say "heavy industry will be in space" ... this makes it sound more like "precision industry" would do well in space. Granted, if boil-off isn't an issue, you're starting with a sterile environment in a vacuum, and since it's near 24-hours of daylight about 30% more intense than on Earth's surface, there's plenty of energy for distilling pure water. Don't ask about shipping ASML machines up to orbit though hah.
'Unlike an aircraft carrier, it has carpark' Haha oh you haven't seen when carriers have a homeport shift and sailors put cars ontop of the flight deck to their new home
But what I can tell, the biggest shortage is for chips that use much older technology, not the newest. You hear about the shortage for automobiles. That is really old stuff, like 14 nm or maybe older. There have been attempts to move the auto industry to newer technology, but they do not need very capable chips for what they do.
it was a scam to select CareFree near Phoenix. Its a desert and short on water so eventually when Colorado River no longer can provide the water capacity this fab will have to shut down...there is no high class university to tap engineers. With high heat of 40C for weeks will cost high utility bill...its suicidal but TSMC never factor such disastrous fatal mistake of choosing an insane illogical incompetent location...old man morris was conned and shown his stupidity haha
Wait, why are they building fabs in Phoenix if water is a critical resource of concern?? Is the water able to be recycled? iirc Phoenix does a lot of waste water recycling.
even mechanical machines suffer damage.When the working babbage difference engine replica was shipped to california, the shippers also dropped it, resulting in many parts of it no longer functioning.
Great video ! I do hope every Taiwanese can speak fluent American English like you do, therefore Taiwan should have more positive influence on the world.
Great video! Love from r/TSMC ❤️
In case you're not aware, this is the EIGHTEENTH video in this channel's TSMC coverage. Here's the entire playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLKtxx9TnH76SRC7ZbOu2Nsg5mC72fy-GZ.html
@@shazmosushi I've seen every single one, and I think that more people should. All these videos deserve way more views. They are really good! 👌🏼
I wonder why tsmc doesn't move some of it's production into developing countries with decent production capacities!! Such as Turkey can build that factory within a year not 3 years at all as it has enormous construction sector while severely lacking high tech production. So i think similar countries would be much better options than US or building another factory in Taiwan as not only those factories would become operational in less time also tsmc could cut costs significantly...
@@ggoddkkiller1342 Political and whatnot. Taiwan gained an advantage with TSMC similar to how South Korea with Samsung
@@ggoddkkiller1342 $20bn is a huge investment. As mentioned in the video, tax incentives are important, as are stable, compliant government. High-end semiconductor manufacturing is considered a prestige industry for countries to have, so they will frequently offer large tax incentives to get companies to build there.
Then there's a need for a ready supply of well-educated employees. Phoenix already has a history of semiconductor manufacturing, so there are local staff available to recruit.
It's not really the availability of construction staff/equipment that's the issue; it's the work needed to get the cleanrooms up to spec, and the availability of the equipment. If ASML only produce 50 EUV machines per year for the entire industry, then that's going to limit the rate at which fabs can come online.
Then you have the fact that they might not actually *want* to get the whole fab online in a year. As mentioned in the video, fab openings are deliberately phased so as to ensure that they don't all come online just as the industry goes into a downturn. Last thing you want is massive excess capacity sitting around depreciating, as it might be out-of-date by the time the next upturn comes. One only has to look at the DRAM cycles of the 80s and 90s to see how damaging that can be.
For forty years I was employed by a manufacturer of capital equipment for producing semi conductor chips. Twenty five of those years was directly involved with installing and modifying the machines in the field. I've been to almost every country that has a fab and spent years overseas working in fabs. TSMC, Samsung, Micron, Philips, Siemens, Intel, AMD, on and on. The people and technology are amazing. I watched the size of the chip shrink and speed increase beyond what was imagined when I started in 1980. I hold a number of patents for improving the speed and accuracy of our tools. I started in the industry coming from a car mechanic background and with self education and OJT became a valuable member of the team of people that changed the world with computes and all manor of electrical devices now using semiconductor chips. It is a fantastic technology and will be the future for all humans. Art👽
Thats a really cool career you've had
👌
That is amazing. Did you make it to 300mm production equipment?
Thank you so much. I love your videos. The content you give is awesome. Just what I need in my life
maybe a video about the Asian supply chains, like where raw materials are mined and then which semiconductor equipment companies in Japan and South Korea ship equipment into other Asian countries
There is a chemical used in making chips which only Japan makes in its purest form.
@@arbaz79 You probably are referring to photoresists, which are coated on wafers. Japan previously added more customs red tape for their export to S Korea after the latter convicted Mitsubishi Heavy Industries of using slave labour in WW2.
Actually, for very expensive equipment with very specific and advanced applications, most of the time the producer doesn't know his machine capabilities better than the end user. They just build the machine on the client specifications, but they don't know how it actually works in order to produce something, since they have no way to actually use the machine for its intended purpose. I learned this first hand for sputtering machines.
Yes, and No. I've worked on these very tools for several years now. Often, the manufacturer has their own people on site for in depth troubleshooting and specific problem solving, as well as understanding a degree of the requirements by the end user. We make the tool do one thing, but they know how to make the tool do many things.
Well, now that I watched the video I think that after all the chips aren't that expensive comparing how complex they are
Amazing video
While an amazing decision from all involved, the Arizona foundry has tremendous potential on the international stage. Americans might not care for international politics much, but employ tens of thousands in any state and that'll surely raise some awareness for the yet-to-be-recognized country.
TSMC Arizona plant. The Taiwanese engineer are paid less than their white counter part and needed to work overnight shift while the white engineers don't.
This reminds me of 1863 to 1869, roughly 15,000 Chinese workers helped build the transcontinental railroad. They were paid less than White American workers.
The Asian engineers are looked upon as less worthy than their white so called colleagues.
History is repeating itself.
Racism is alive and well in USA.
"what are the tax incentives" "what are the tax incentives"
Haha. I get it
Not to mention those cafes and cafeterias
I don't get it
@@MrMischelito important + important.
Great content and production value. 👍🏼 I’m in manufacturing and led a project the past several to expand our production footprint from Asia into the Americas. Many of the criteria you mentioned are spot on. I would also add local talent pool as a critical factor for expansion success. The project ultimately failed (after lots of $...) for a variety of reasons, including social and political unrest. But one of the reasons was within our control - the team here didn’t have enough bandwidth to expand their operations to become a truly global manufacturing operation. Will be curious to see how TSMC creates their SWAT team for the initial critical start-up phase. Arizona Heat is dry heat (har har).
Will be supporting your Patroen, keep up the good work and thank you.
Oh, would be great if you haven’t already to better understand the chip manufacturing flow from raw material in to wafer out and what are the operational processes to support that, e.g. water and energy intensity, storage criteria, etc. You already mention the clean room and modular and scalable layout which are important.
Thanks.
Thanks for the kind words. I hope to write about that in the future too.
@@Asianometry 4:23 I like how you subtly said "what are the tax incentives" twice LOL. Very accurate!
@@Asianometry You make it sounds like only TSMC and the Fab industry are dealing with ultra-complicated tasks of planning, constructing, fitting, staffing, and running a foundry.
Perhaps your glorification of TSMC stems from your own limited experience to only the foundry business, but let me tell you that all businesses and organizations that are connected to mission critical operations have faced, are facing and will face similar challenges every single day.
I've been in mission critical operations for decades and while I am impressed with what TSMC has achieved, I am much less impressed at your 拍马屁 presentation in this episode.
@@clocktower1164 I disagree with you and you are rude. If you have never worked at Fab as a semiconductor engineer, you have no idea the latest semiconductor fabrication needs to make everything precise down to nanometer scale. Except for semiconductor manufacturing, I have never heard about any industry that needs to be precise in nanometer scale.
Civil aviation, space program, nuclear power plant, ship making, or high-speed railway are ultra-complicated, but semiconductor fab construction and operation is at a different level.
If you are right on your claim, why there are only a few countries are capable to do semiconductor manufacturing beyond the 28-nm node? Why Intel, as a pioneering semiconductor manufacturer since the 80s, is now falling behind TSMC? Intel founded decades before TSMC and should have more experience on "ultra-complicated tasks of planning, constructing, fitting, staffing, and running a foundry". Why Intel is struggling now?
You "might" be an experienced engineer in other fields. However, being an experienced engineer is not an excuse for being rude.
@@廣輝李-w8p yup, def rude and disrespecful.
Underrated channel. All your videos are written as well or better than channels.like Wendover and Polymatter
It still blows my mind the amount of water that's used for washing chips and its apparent un-recoverability.
Ya, there HAS to be some kind of advancement on this part of the manufacturing process otherwise there will be major, major problems coming up.
A really well thought out presentation. Few people know how hard this business is.
BOSCH just openend their newest Fab in my Town Dresden, so I was courious about Chip-business. Thanks for that great Video!
Thanks for making these great videos on topics I didn't know I wanted to know about. Perhaps you can talk about the M2 chip that Apple will be using next?
I would love to. So many ideas. So little time …
@@Asianometry Once you reach let's say 250,000 subscribers (10 times your current subscriber count) and have grown your Patreon proportionally from 81 subscribers to 810 subscribers it should become increasingly obvious that entertaining the global internet is far more financially lucrative than any professional career path you could possible have in Taiwan. Yes ad revenue, sponsorships and view counts may be a fickle income source, and you face global competition with your videos. But Patreon is consistent, as so is the user-base for quality content. It's enough to one day make the jump to being a full-time UA-cam creator. As a famous senate once said, "we will watch your career with great interest".
Great info, would love to know even more detail
Did anybody mention to TSMC that Arizona has chronic water shortage? It is a state with extremely high risk of water scarcity.
They will probably get their water from the same place the nuclear power station does... from the sewers of Phoenix.
Pretty sure they thought of that
@Richard Prat 90% of the state is a desert where they farm for high value crops. Not much water of any color, it just evaporates...
@@fredtownsend4962 Yeah, but cleaning it will require prodigious amounts of power.
They should've built it in Oregon or Washington where water is plentiful
Nice video. You kind of take the machine that you are a part of for granted. One thing that stood out to me - ballroom and mini environment.
For fab layout there are generally two (been a while since undergrad) - ball room and bay and chase. Then each tool , generally speaking, has their own mini-enviroment that has its own filters to further clean the air. Because of loadports that dock to the factory interface/EFEM (might be more terms for that depending on what toolset you work with), and FOUPs (wafer carrier) that have gaskets, you don't need a fab with as tight of a tolerance in air purity.
The fab has laminar airflow, so air isn't pumped from outside as much as it's filtered. Filters on the ceiling, air flows down, through floor grates, and is filtered again.
I live in America and like to get my news from local news sources as i feel the reporting is more authentic. Nothing more local than a guy reporting from his bedroom in Taiwan lol.
I always hated the emphasis on local news when I lived in the US. No one had any international perspective.
you're my favorite go to channel regarding asian economies
This series of videos is pure gold.
Your videos are so good they help me understand a bit this industry that was so alien to me... thanks
your error was "erorrs". love your vids!
Hahaha
thanks a lot, i’m a machenical automaition bachelor from GDUT and just got offer from TU Aachen, my mother uni get limit from USA and i just want to do something in MEMS to China, ur vedioes teaches a lots things what i want to know basic professional knowledge . Just thanks a lot
I can only imagine what it would take to disrupt the likes of TSMC or ASML
Only if someone can suddenly make the quality of machines like the level of ASML or operate their equipment well enough like TSMC
Also ASML & TSMC helps each other improving the fab machines too, it's like the oven maker(ASML) providing the oven to the chef (TSMC) and then the chef after using the oven returns the advices on bettering the oven.
ASML probably won't ever be caught or surpassed. But TSMC faces an extremely serious threat from Samsung.
@@RedFoxAce Disruption usually happens when a smaller company fundamentally changes a process greatly cutting costs/output volume/production time so the large legacy company is left holding ancient IP and too many obligations to shift as fast.
@@RedFoxAce lmao never say never. There's no tech that can't be disrupted.
@@RedFoxAce no such thing as never get caught. Canon and Nikon were once ahead of ASML... And soon even EUV won't be enough for the next faze of semiconductors
Nothing is simple as it seems except pie and making a good one has specific details that need to be acknowledged.
I've just found your channel. Love your work. I personally find your videos much more enjoyable at 1.5x speed hehehe. Anyway, thank you for doing this.
Always learn something new watching your videos. Good, carry on making them. Cheers! 😀😀😀
At least one bright side of the tsmc fab in Arizona is the construction industry out here is very familiar with semiconductor facilities as we already have global foundries, Intel, and I believe Samsung already in the Phoenix area
Wonderful video....can you please make a video about the hardware and software suppliers in the semiconductor industry like Lam research, applied materials, Synopsys and ASML...etc
I already have an ASML video and I encourage you to watch it!
@@Asianometry off course I watched it, great one indeed!... looking forward for videos about other suppliers if you can, probably this time about EDA tools, like Synopsys and Cadence... Cheers
I just released a video last night to Early Access about Tokyo Electron. Check that out too if you can
@@Asianometry perhaps you can cover the software aspect in semiconductor industry. Especially in china.
Software companies like Synopsys, ANSYS, Mentor graphics, Cadence... etc
I work in TSMC start from Fab6 then transfer to Fab14, now I am in F18.
I wish more young people can join us, manpower shortages is seriously.
TSMC is a shield to defend invasion from China
Everyone should protect your own country, not just talk.
TSMC is building a MASSIVE factory here in Phoenix in the middle of the desert. I live about 10 minutes away from the construction. Just built a new house way north and enjoying the open desert air, going to be different as these big factories gobble up the space...
Is the construction proceeding at pace? I wish reporters would cover development on the ground.
@@bruceli9094
Kinda.
Also, TSMC is building 5 more in The US. I believe 2 more are going in Arizona. So that totals 3 TSMC in Arizona.
wow, this episode i had to pause many times just to take in the information on screen... ( i subscribed today, and have been watching your videos one after the next ...
Thanks, I lived in Hsinchu for a while - now I know what that enourmous building is thanks
Have been watching and enjoying your videos for a few weeks now. Having worked in the SEMI industry for about 13 years (now left) with all the biggies - TSMC, Samsung and Intel on the cutting edge nodes, I find your videos fascinating. You seem to be find information/pictures that would generally be hard to find. Keep up the good work! It's fun to watch some of the aerial pictures of the biggest fabs , identify them from the picture and then reminisce about the long hours spent inside some of those cleanrooms troubleshooting the WORLD'S TOUGHEST PROBLEMS :)) . Did you work at any of these giants?
Nah. My day job is entirely unrelated to what I do here.
@@Asianometry whoa! Even more impressive, in that case!
Hello @asianometry, Glad YT algorithm suggested your channel. I am a college student with "Electronics" as my major. But I'm more interested in establishing a semiconductor fab startup.
It would mean a lot if you share your thoughts on the same.
It may take a few billion dollars to get started.
@@Asianometry I did know that. 😆
Photo goes in the center of your fab.
Steppers can be rejected at delivery if the 747 or air ride truck lost temp control, were to steep or had to high of a g-load.
TSMC is a fascinating company! So many other companies depend on it for their own success. What happens when it reaches 1nm? go down to 0.5nm? Unimaginable (for now).
nm is almost a useless measure. Might aswell state atoms
@@oblivion_2852 Yes, you are right. It is NOT a precise measure but that is what generally the public understands it to be relatively speaking. So the imprecision does give a sense of comprehension to the public. Thank you for highlighting it too.
@@harrykekgmail I'd argue it's the opposite... How many people work with nm? I find it easier to understand that 14nm would be 30 atoms or some such... I understand roughly how small an atom is
@@oblivion_2852 Motivated by your reply to read this:
www.hpcwire.com/2020/06/01/10nm-7nm-5nm-should-the-chip-nanometer-metric-be-replaced/
But I am too non-tech to understand well but good enough to know that there are better measurements. LOL
IBM with Intel just announced 2nm (won't see consumer sales for years). Crazy. I wonder how small will nods get. In the past, I thought 5nm would be the limit.
Dropped a $5 m. semiconductor equipment has to be send back to Japan for recalibration. E-commerce deliveries if dropped should be send back to factory also, it has suffered trauma, on outside it may look fine. Everyone remember.
Can you rephrase that? I had a hard time understanding
@@Peczhie When I am writing what I am thinking it is always complex. My sentences have slowly become complex over the years as I experience more English. English is not my 1st language, I may not have vocabulary on the level of literature writers but it is still somewhat complex.
Great video! Could you share a link to the source you used to talk about the $5 million insurance claim (@9:50)? Would love to read more.
excellent post. had no idea
Damn I wish this had come out 7 hours earlier, I was just finishing up a rushed research paper on the semiconductor shortage and would've loved to include more information on Fab construction but finding comprehensive sources was difficult.
Speaking of which, have you ever considered throwing sources in the description? Your other videos were super helpful but I often found myself wanting to cite a specific detail but being unable to track down a print source (I cited your channel as a reference, but for individual claims in-text citing UA-cam videos is generally frowned upon sadly).
Email me a detail you want to track down and I would be glad to give you the source if I can remember where it came from!
@@Asianometry I'll do that next time, thanks! Sadly I waited way too long to start this last paper and found myself scrambling, thankfully the previous months of watching your videos helped me make record time writing about such a complex topic.
Honestly, I think I've learned more from this channel than I did the class (Political economy of East Asia), my professor is a talented guy but very old-school and very boring. So thanks for what you do!
What are u studing?
Great video! Perhaps Americans in the South-West can explain where the water for the facility will come from. I thought the entire South-West was quite dry.
Water claims favor Arizona over California. They could’ve built on New Mexico , since Intel was around the block too.
It comes to tax incentives, labor pool, and besides , Arizona can lure qualified CA workers over its lower living costs.
I cringed when he mentioned New York. The Hudson Valley is vital on the water supply towards downstate.
Semi conductor foundries demand more from local resources than what they bring in.
great analysis. thanks
Thanks for video And information technology keep going 🤠 greeting from Morocco*©
Was the ERORRS intentional? Thanks for sharing. Charles
Nice video 👍🏼
Great video👏👏👏👏
TSMC is going to be using 20 million gallons of water in Arizona while the news talks about a record drought. Makes perfect sense to me.
Great video, I am planning to buy some stock but I don’t know which is best for long term I am not use to stock investment, please help me or send me the best stock to buy for future at Least 1/2 yrs !
i will not advice you buy share and keep for a whole 2 years, no. So many people making huge money on short term investment. Seek an expert advice
Congrats "Amelia babasa Woods" as you now have your mentor as the richest man in the world, hope this will be more profit🤑 for us. @presh, search for her on web and thank me later
@@victoriadavid4975
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@vicky, I have watch one of their interview on CNN Finance when you share your success story. Could you kindly drop the contacts here, I really want to have success investment portfolio like you?
Crypto er en flukt for investorer som ikke vil at krasjen skal påvirke helt. Dette er grunnen til at noen få som forstår tidene, benytter muligheten til å investere i kryptovalutaer, for det meste bitcoin. Søk et profesjonelt råd eller du en porteføljeforvalter
Can you do a video on nanoscale photonics fabrication ? Can TSCM and traditional fabs supprt Indium Phosphide, Galium Arsenide and polymer based layers to make photonic device on die ? These are already done for optical transceivers for switches but there is talk of wafer and die scale light based data transport coming up to deal with the heat issues of high frequency data planes on die.
Give me 8 years for a PhD first.
@@Asianometry I believe in you :)
44 Billion now! Phoenix is the place! Fab 2 has been approved in North Phoenix now.
I start on Monday wish me luck lol
USA robbing TSMC from us Taiwanese. ROBBER.
5:16 *Why does a FAB need so much water?*
Hi, thanks for the great content. Subscribed to both the channel and the newsletter. May I know what's yr background? Market research (Gartner/Forrester/etc), investment management, others...? Thanks!
Hi asianometry,
Do you have time to make a video covering TSMC six 12" Fab in AZ for 5-nm technology and how it affects Intel? I work in the industry and highly doubt if the plan will work.
First, AZ is a desert and I doubt there is enough water supply for six TSMC 12" Fab and the existing Intel Fab.
Second, is there enough labor for TSMC in AZ? Currently, the software industry is in its golden age and a programmer can easily have 2 times or higher income than a semiconductor engineer. I guess that's the reason why the US is no longer in the leading role in semiconductor manufacturing.
Third, the current chip shortage mainly in the automobile market, not in CPU, CPU, or any high-performance applications market, which is TSMC focus on. If TSMC builds another six 12" Fab in AZ, I am pretty sure that the high-performance applications market will be in oversupply and these 12" Fab in AZ won't be profitable in the future. Fourth, TSMC will do risk production on 3-nm technology (equals to Intel 5-nm) early next year. In the meantime, Intel is still struggling with its 10-nm technology (equals to TSMC 7-nm). Though the new Intel CEO claim 10-nm is on the track, no one knows if it is true given the 14-nm disastrous experience. If Intel 10-nm (TSMC 7-nm) is another disaster and intel's competitors apply TSMC 5-nm technology. It means Intel is falling behind at least two-generation. Can intel survive? Or eventually, separate its Fab and design department as AMD and GF did in 2008? If it is the latter, hundreds of thousands of Intel engineers will lose their job.
Thanks
Lots of questions. My uninformed opinion is that Intel will be fine. $17 billion of annual cash flow will do that for you.
Fascinating process.
This video was likely to have been made before the current worldwide "semiconductors shortage" crisis.
The shortage problems are not easily resolved by just building more clean rooms, whether in Arizona or in Taiwan.
A new approach to the fabrication of the integrated circuits on the silicon wafers need to be developed.
Scientists and researchers should explore the use of 3-D printing instead of the photographic process in the manufacturing of these integrated circuits.
3d printing would kill yields.
@@chinogambino9375
The yields may actually increase as more of these simpler (and much cheaper) 3-D printers can be used producing the ICs in tandem.
The ICs can be individually formed other than many ICs on a circular 12 inch wafer and then cut up.
Need to do the necessary R & D to achieve this new method.
At the beginning of the video is stated fab 14 produces 13,000 wafers per month. That seems totally off, as the actual figure is way way higher - more like 130,000 wafers/mo
I have struggled with dealing with high tier logistic issues.... This sounds like my personal never ending logistics hell.
Counter parts of power generation plant, water processing plant, waste recycling plant, air purification plants, ... you may need a full hydrocarbon cracker plant to manufacture many items from waste and by-products and supporting infrastructure of small city in the near future for a full eco-system to manage every part of a product lifecycle.
Good reporting
Should have built next to Lake Michigan in the case AMD
thanks you for the video! My question is fabs needs so much water how is intel and TSMC fabs in Arizona make any sense? arizona is so dry, hot and no rain so where do they get all the water from?
I've watched every single one of your videos on fabrication... and it seems to me that, in our constant search for slightly faster phones and slightly more detailed video games, we are performing environmental atrocities. Some without even realising we're doing it.
It feels like we are pushing ridiculous limits on semiconductor fabrication processes, before they are really perfected and/or stable.
update on the new fab in AZ? thanks
renewable energy will need many semiconductors, maybe another video about how to compare fab process nodes (transistor density is more important than 'x nm' label)
I am an Indian and pray to God to bless everyone 🙏
You are forgiven for your erorrs at about 1:00, even though I suspect it was intentional.
good video!
As a Taiwanese, I am not optimistic about TSMC's new fab in AZ. It's just not how it works. Americans are too pampered to work night shifts and wear rabbit suits for long hours. It's a common sight in TSMC people work 10 hours in the fabs. Also, most employees in TSMC have at least a master's degree in STEM. lots of them are PhDs. In the US, most STEM master students are coming from abroad, which is retrained by H1B visa. The pay of EE is lower than CS, but the knowledge requirement is higher. I only heard of EE people switch to CS jobs. Taiwan has the cheapest highly educated STEM talents. Their salary is around 50k USD a year in Taiwan. If TSMC moves its employees to the US, it at least has to double its salaries to cover the living cost. Besides, the low cost of electricity, water, and land makes TSMC competitive. That is, the tax income from TSMC probably just breaks even how much the government subsidizes the water and electricity.
I can't wait until China pays a "visit" to little Taiwan....then you won't be calling the Americans who will defend your tiny island "pampered" will you?? I bet you got out of there long ago and are safely living in America, while bad-mouthing it every chance you get.
1:05 Please forgive me for any erorrs 😂
Great video! You are Taiwanese ？
Can you please shed light on why TSMC would choose--of all places--Arizona, an extremely hot and arid region, currently experiencing drought, to build a fab requiring such an astonishing amount of water?
can you do a video about UMC
hmm... wondering if they need so much water... how well will the fab do in Arizona...
Its a shame that your channel is not wellknown
Just found it recently and I think there’s no way around for me watching every video previously made.
I like this factory
I have built four at Intel and one at Philips semiconductor
Could you talk about the benefits Intel has with having a Production facility in Ireland. There both in the European market so that would help with cost of shipping from the Netherlands and the distance is much shorter
I have thought about that yeah.
The cost of shipping is not the main cost in semiconductor manufacturing. Semiconductor tool supply chain, latest technology with high yield, and massive workaholic engineers are the key factor. EU has a supply chain but lacks the latter two factors.
Tax incentives must be important ... 😉
Yes
Btw you are a chartered accountant?
Not must. ARE. Are important
10:26 CRT Screen - LOL - pic from the 1990s
Did you use to lower your voice in post-production?
You know they say "heavy industry will be in space" ... this makes it sound more like "precision industry" would do well in space. Granted, if boil-off isn't an issue, you're starting with a sterile environment in a vacuum, and since it's near 24-hours of daylight about 30% more intense than on Earth's surface, there's plenty of energy for distilling pure water. Don't ask about shipping ASML machines up to orbit though hah.
Fab construction is a lot more complicated than described in this video
lol you think?
If he goes through every single detail, he needs at least a whole academic year to cover all the detail.
@@Asianometry have you ever participated any fab construction before ?
@@廣輝李-w8p no need to go over all the details . one can still pass the idea
@@dwliu6582 he might be an analyst in the investment bank. It might be picky to request an analyst to give a very technical details
Fascinating
'Unlike an aircraft carrier, it has carpark' Haha oh you haven't seen when carriers have a homeport shift and sailors put cars ontop of the flight deck to their new home
This video thumbnail looks like a photo from a logicboard
But what I can tell, the biggest shortage is for chips that use much older technology, not the newest. You hear about the shortage for automobiles. That is really old stuff, like 14 nm or maybe older. There have been attempts to move the auto industry to newer technology, but they do not need very capable chips for what they do.
it was a scam to select CareFree near Phoenix. Its a desert and short on water so eventually when Colorado River no longer can provide the water capacity this fab will have to shut down...there is no high class university to tap engineers. With high heat of 40C for weeks will cost high utility bill...its suicidal but TSMC never factor such disastrous fatal mistake of choosing an insane illogical incompetent location...old man morris was conned and shown his stupidity haha
Wait, why are they building fabs in Phoenix if water is a critical resource of concern?? Is the water able to be recycled? iirc Phoenix does a lot of waste water recycling.
...fantastic...
Pleeeease get rid of this high-pitch hissing sound - it's in quite many of your videos, and highly enerving...
Apart thereof - great content always!
TSMC is building a fab in water starved Arizona ????? sounds like the state must have given them a lot of tax payers $$$$$ to get them there !
Ironically a company called Arizona pipeline is building a new water system through Arizona and into CA .
This Chinese bot are mad because the T is short from Taiwan 😂
thanks
even mechanical machines suffer damage.When the working babbage difference engine replica was shipped to california, the shippers also dropped it, resulting in many parts of it no longer functioning.
I think he designed it wrong purposely so people couldn't copy it.
Tzuyu lives in Tainan ♥️♥️♥️
You misspelled Errors.
Amazing
AMD didnt turn into global foundries.. it spun off its fab into global foundry's separate companies.
Great video ! I do hope every Taiwanese can speak fluent American English like you do, therefore Taiwan should have more positive influence on the world.
I also hope All American can speak fluent Chinese, therefore has easier cultural exchange
correction; every American should be fluent in reading, writing and speaking chinese.. that way America have more positive influence on the wrold
@@kremun One language is too little it makes your brain lazier.
Is not enough for dealing with creativity.
So why TSMC is building a fab in Phoenix. Is there enough water?