SHOGUN 1x9 "Crimson Sky" Reaction & Discussion!
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- Опубліковано 15 кві 2024
- Shōgun, a new and adapted historical drama series, has arrived, depicting war and power in 1600s Japan.
Shōgun stars: Hiroyuki Sanada (The Wolverine, 47 Ronin, Bullet Train, Mortal Kombat (2021), & John Wick: Chapter 4), Cosmo Jarvis (Calm with Horses, Lady Macbeth, & Persuasion), Anna Sawai (F9: The Fast Saga, Pachinko, & Girl/Haji) & Tadanobu Asano (Thor, Battleship, & Mongol: The Rise of Genghis Khan)
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This, Hollywood, is how you make a strong female character!
Hollywood just wants to put a chick on it and make her GAY
Preach 🛐
Fukn EPIC.
Or how about you just say this is how you write good character no matter what they look like. Lmao no reason to bring in gender part. You should want good characters all around who are written like her, like Blackthorne, Toronaga and so on.
@@OrionInSpace dude shut up
Did anyone catch that Mariko was wearing a Crimson kimono? She was the crimson sky sent to the castle to bring down Ishido.
Oooooh 😮 I feel so dumb. The whole episode, I was sitting there wondering when they were going to show Crimson Sky, and ended the episode so confused lol
Yeah I do feel odd and you comment this
Mariko-sama was far more devastating to Ichido than any military assault on Osaka could ever have been. She is the true "Crimson Sky".
Toranaga used Hiromatsu and Mariko to great effect. Realists are smart and cruel.
All series long, she had been wearing variation of gray, silver, graphite contrasted against deep dark blues and black. In this episode, every one of her outfits save for the white robe she was going to perform seppuku in, had bright red in them.
Mariko stood on business today….RIP to a real one
She finally got her death wish, but fulfilled it with a purpose.
She took one for the team... It's your turn Toranaga!
@@DanteVerde-pt9zc she didn't need to, if we're being honest
@@M_k-zi3tn I mean if she didn't, they'd just be a hostage like everyone else. By her dying it would give reason for other clans to revolt as mentioned by Ochiba earlier in the episode.
@@numanumame Yes, her death means a lot.
Anna Sawai absolutely killed it in this episode. She sold every emotion with her face and actions. She's an amazing actress, I really hope to see her again in a lot of stuff.
😢
Hiroyuki Sanada came to set to support her and to coach her through the hard scenes because he pushed her to be better. He also needed to see her death filmed.
Agreed. Flawlessly graceful in every single scene and superb chemistry with Cosmo. She has a huge acting career ahead of her!
@@americanandpinay I did learn that it WAS her birthday when they were filming her death scene. So it would make sense that he, as an Executive Producer and colleague, would be there for that. He was probably in on the prank they pulled on her....telling her they were preparing for a slow-mo version of her dying, counting down "3, 2, 1....HAPPPY BIIIIRTHDAAAAY TOOOOOOO YOUUUUU".
This is truly her Emmy episode. But she's been so amazing in this series. She was handed a nearly impossible role for an actor. To portray such power & strength through a 1600's Japanese woman is so damn difficult.
She wasn't able to play with "power stances" and powerful emoting like Hiroyuki Sanada was able to do. She had to be seen as "timid, meek & subservient" but still somehow get across that she is this incredibly strong woman.
And Anna did it so beautifully. I seriously wish I could have just "a stick of time" or even just 5 minutes with her to express how much I appreciated her work....and to ask if I may record her saying "Anji-sama, let it happen" because that line is going to haunt me till I die.
"A flower is a flower because it falls." and her saying to Anjin "Don't do it until I fall"... DAMN... Mariko-sama, the most beautiful flower of all.
I am still trying to understand the meaning to this. Sorry, can you explain?
@@7thwardchapter The whole show explores the theme of death as perceived by the Japanese people of the era. In this particular discussion, Lady Ochiba remarks on the futility of surrendering to death, while Mariko-sama counters by expressing that "A flower is just a flower because it falls," meaning that something is only beautiful because it is momentary. Death gives meaning to life and vice versa.
@@RaedViera That makes a lot more sense!Thank you 🙏🏼
wonderful catch..so beautiful and haunting
@@7thwardchapterthis is death bed poem for Hosokawa Garcia she was real person Mariko’s Character.
I know the moment to disperse (fall) like flowers.
ちりぬべき 時知りてこそ 世の中の 花も花なれ 人も人なれ
This episode alone will win Anna Sawai an Emmy. Excellence.
“Akechi Mariko”
While everyone else view this “Akechi” name as a badge of shame because of Mariko’s dad committing the (rightful and heroic) treason, Mariko turned this into a badge of honor for saving the hostages in Osaka.
totally rightful and totally heroic (and not totally a power grab)
@@adityaakbar2575 In history, yeah it was a power grab and an act of vengeance and hatred. However, this is a retelling of the events, and in this case they want to portray Mitsuhide as a heroic figure.
@@adityaakbar2575 According to this story, it’s heroic.
But yeah, in the real history it’s more complex.
@@nont18411 i wouldnt say complex, betraying your liege lord 12,000 vs 50 while he was praying, that is dishonorable and pathetic and mitsuhide got what he deserved.
I've noticed how in some storylines of the Akechi betrayal they tend to make it out as if Mitsuhide was doing it for the right reason but to the wrong one
I love how at the end, she called herself Akechi Mariko, not Toda Markio.
Akechi = Her father who always loves her
Toda = Her abusive husband who beat her up a lot
Of course, she chose Akechi
@@nont18411Except, she chose Toda during the seppuku ceremony. So, it's worth noting that she only chose her family name after Blackthorne's grand gesture to save her soul-and the sex.
Akechi was erased from history as an assassin,But Mariko's daughter becomes the emperor's queen historically. I think Akechi's family is a special female line…It may be an ancient line？🤔so her tragedy can make nobility angry.
@@nont18411buntaro deserved better than mariko
@@leonrussell9607 No, he didn't. He forced her to stay in that marriage (also occasionally beating her brutally), even though he knew she didn't love him..
Mariko won, not just for Toranaga but also for her family name.
If she successfully left the castle, she would have been considered a saviour to all the noble houses in Osaka because she has demonstrated a way to escape from Ishido's clutches.
If she did not, she would have been considered as an honourable servant who did all she could to obey her lord, and thereby cleansing her family name in the eyes of everyone else who saw what happened.
If she died, either by suicide or by assassination, she would have horribly tarnished the name of Ishido, who was supposed to be the protector of the Osaka castle and its residents, thereby seriously reducing his prestige among all the noble houses who would eventually know of the shinobi attack.
All the noble houses would either flock to the side of Toranaga after witnessing Ishido's dishonorable act against a brave female noble or would abstain from helping Ishido if the fight comes to fruition.
Either way, Ishido was already defeated when Mariko defied him openly.
She executed Crimson Sky
Excellent analysis and deduction
Precisely: The whole strategy was to turn Mariko into an emissary of Toranaga. If she is NOT permitted to leave, then Ishido will be openly exposed as a hostage-taker who is controlling the Council of Regents by force and intimidation. The proclamation against Toranaga becomes void.
If she is permitted to leave, then effectively all the Lords Ishido is holding captive so that they follow his directives against Toranga (and for general leadership issues as well) will seek similar release which again IF Ishido refuses, he gets publicly exposed as being a hostage taker applying duress on the Council
If Mariko is NOT permitted to leave, and she successfully commits seppuku for failure to honor her Lord's orders, then Ishido gets exposed as having held her as a captive and preventing her, an emissary, from discharging her Lord's duties and permitting harm to befall someone who is either a guest in his care or a captive under his control. The result is shame upon the House of Ishido and thoroughly undermines his authority.
Mariko dying at the hands of assassins accomplishes a multitude of outcomes: 1) Ishido is exposed as having stopped her from timely leaving thereby contributing to her death; 2) Ishido is shown as ineffective, incompetent and weak, for failing to protect those whom he declared as "guests" under his watch and care; 3) shame is brought upon Ishido in with the suspicion that he employed the assassins; and 4) disgrace is brought upon the entire Council of Regents who did not permit Mariko sama an emissary of Toranaga who is a noble to leave when she attempted to, and none intervened to assist her in this, and moreover NONE intervened to protect her from harm.
She died at the cost of trying to honor her Lord's orders for her. The disgraced Council would NOT continue their shame by aligning with Ishido. In effect, Mariko unraveled Ishido's authority without so much as drawing one drop of blood!
If there was ever a slogan or tagline that could be used for this episode it would be "Damned if you do, and damned if you don't."
What I particularly like about the Shinobi scene in this episode is that they (the writers) chose NOT to make the Shinobi the stereotypical Hollywood ninja clad entirely in black with swords on their backs. The Shinobi instead wore grays, browns, and other earthly tones that blended in perfectly with the surrounding area (castle walls, etc.) indicating they would have chosen such colors for that specific mission they were hired to do.
It's little historical details like this that make this show so awesome!
Ninpo Ik-kan! 🥷🥷🥷
I know that the commenters here are not Japanese, but they understand the stories more deeply than I, a Japanese, do, and they also understand the meaning of tanka and haiku. This is something that has always amazed and impressed me throughout this series.
I think it means that the level of the scenario, the translation, and the audience is very high.
When ep10 is over, let's all buy sake and say "kanpai" for shogun.
Blackthorne drawing the line in the sand is fighting against fate. All the lines in the zen garden are oriented in one direction, him drawing a line through them is a symbol of defiance of that fate.
Blackthorne drawing a line in the Zen garden is a reference to the very beginning of the series and a forewarning. Blackthorn's Captain tells him he must, "Draw a line," right before Blackthorne hands him a pistol and he takes his life because the Captain doesn't want to live with the shame of his failed expedition. This represents a second major infliction point for Blackthorne, as in the beginning when he became the commander and had to find his own way, Lady Mariko was his guide and now he must find his own way yet again. He really is Anjin in the truest sense.
"Leafless Branch" is also what Ochiba translates to.
Well, “falling leaves,” but the sentiment is the same.
OoOOOOoooh riiiiiiight.
Dang!
It is at the start of the chapter, and essentially paints a difficult start of the poem competition…..
Holy sh*t THIS is how you do strong female characters. No forced agency, no elevating characters by denigrating others. Anna Sawai was terrific in this episode. I like Cosmo Jarvis in this series but he was totally overshadowed here. I was on the edge of my seat throughout.
Only you Trump supporters make a big deal out of gender. Grow up.
So glad the show was realistic about her strength against men. They did not make her a super hero.
I know right? I was expecting her to solo 20 dudes with her naginata but this is not that kind of show. She's well trained, yes, but she's tiny, and those guys are well-trained palace guards. A lesser show would have had her just cut through them like butter or something. What we see here is much more realistic. There's no artificially expanding the confines of the world women lived in back then, instead the show focuses on all the variety of choices they were able to make within the confines of a male-dominated system. All the subtle forms of communication, duty, and loyalty. It's just brilliant.
@@Brendissimo1 You guys are incels.
And they didn’t have to keep reminding us that life is hard for her because she’s a woman. Or denying help from men because she wants to prove herself and show them up.
She died to save the hostages. She, (and the other retainers), did perform a Crimson Sky. They made it into the castle and caused incredible damage to Ishido's power.
No, she died to stop being captured…..
No she was dying to politically damage her captors and undermine support with the noble houses. It's like the modern day equivalent of a government killing someone with diplomatic immunity.
You know, Mariko is like the Titanic. In real history, Lady Garcia (Mariko) is known for how she died and her final poem. So... most Japanese knew from Episode 1 that Mariko's death would be the pivotal moment of the drama. I guess that the entire story buildup of Shogun was to deliver the most dramatic depiction of this historical event. Here is Lady Garcia's final poem:
'Only when you know the time to fall,
Flowers can become flowers,
People can become people.'
As someone who read the book, I also knew it was coming, but I was hoping they changed the end, which they did. But I was hoping hollywood maybe injured her or something. The whole ending was foreshadwoed through out the series though, which also had me worried
@@overthewebb I haven't seen the original miniseries, I haven't read the book (I've only just begun it) and I had a small bit of knowledge of the history. But even if I didn't, Mariko was clearly a tragic character. And there was only ONE way her story was going to end. She was too "obsessed" with death for it to end any other way.
My only hope was that Blackthorne would beg for her to not go through with it, that she would comfort him but also explain to him that she had to serve a greater purpose than her own desires. But I also wanted her to take some agency of her life and be able to enjoy the beauty that life can offer....something she could carry with her to her inevitable fate.
This is why "Anji-sama, let it happen" will forever haunt me. Anna did such an amazing job with such a beautifully tragic character.
@@jimmygreer2140 I agree. When I read the book. I cried over it and I couldn't read the rest for a few weeks, as I was so upset about it. Blackthorne in the book also asks Toragawa for her hand in marriage.
You have to remember the book was based on a true story and true characters. Even if the names were changed in the book and series. There was nothing Anjin could do to save or change her mentality, that was cultural differences and her family issues. Anjin tried his best.
The real woman of Mariko has her grave in Japan and you can visit it in Kyoto. Akechi Tama is her real name. You can also visit Blackthornes grave and his real name is William Adams, his grave is in Tsukayama Park
@@overthewebb What was her death in the book? I'm assuming it was seppuku
@@MrFredstt No, she also died due to an explosion. Shite I know
I shed tears for Mariko, proud of her stance and bad-assery! This is not about war or John Blackthorne , or the ship, it is Japan.
She was ready to die, there was a small possibility they would let her leave, but I don't think she or Toranaga ever believed that possibility was real. However, for a short time after they told her she could leave, I think she felt what it was like to want to live.
During the seppuku scene, Mariko uses her robes strap to tie her legs together so when she falls and dies, she wouldn’t accidentally expose herself. Apparently this is the procedure women took when they do this
I think her plan is to inspire all the imprisoned lords to side with Torrenaga as she is a single woman who did not fear to defy Ishido, how can anyone else do any less and still have any honour?
I noticed her doing this but I didn't understand why but it makes sense now as apparently women did not wear underwear. Just goes to show the attention to detail the show runners went to
About your "complain" about the fight. I am pleased, that the didn't go the modern hollywood way of making her a Mary Sue, but instead went a more realistic approach. In my opinion she was badass in that moment, she didn't have to beat 10 man all alone in an unrealstic way to show that to an audience.
She used her own death to spark a revolution inside Osaka. That’s kinda powerful to me.
I thought it was a VERY satisfying fight. This is Japanese samurai show, not Chinese kungfu flick.
The fight at the gate worked well without having insecure men toss up the "Woke!" flag.
We have already seen her be a bad-ass in battle with a naginata.
She was shown in flashbacks to have trained with a naginata since childhood.
The guys she was fighting {Ashigaru?} absolutely had to hold back. They were ordered to.
@@scotthewitt258 What you mean insecure men?. Yes the scene was good because it was realistic and not her beating 10 men alone. Thats good story telling right there. Just stop making Crap Woke movies and we will all be happy.
In the book it is one man with katanas and its noted that if he were any less skilled she would have won
I’m legitimately baffled how every single episode seems to outdo the last…I haven’t felt such a sense of dread for a character’s death than I did in this episode.
I get prime Game Of Thrones vibes from this, everyone feels like they can die at any given moment, they did such a good job at making it all feel so real.
Shogun is better than Game of Thrones.
Back in the days I was a big fan of GOT, at least the first 5/6 seasons, and was waiting the whole week for the new episodes.
But the subtility and gravitas of Shogun surpasses any GOT peak moment. At its best GOT was an awsome fantasy fic, yet even if it's a fiction Shogun feels real, fleshed out and lived in.
@@vincentdesjardins1354 The comparison to GOT is tiresome as it is lazy. Adding to what you stated, Shogun feels real because it is grounded in real history and the creators went out of their way to be as historically accurate as possible while telling an historical drama/fiction. That is why the expectation that Mariko fighting with the naginata was going to be "epic" is misplaced. Rather, it was highly realistic with minimal embellishments and that is preciously why it is so good. This is a type of series that one can watch over and over and still get more and more out of.
I was amazed when i knew that mariko was based on a real Christian noblewoman who was the real daughter of akechi mitsuhede and she did die in osaka castle when ishida mitsunari tried to take her as a hostage, the show is 90% accurate to real history.
Yeah, they mostly just changed the names a little bit.
Yes Mariko is based on Hosokawa Gracia. However, she didnt die by getting blasted by Hollywood Ninja. Because she was a christian, it was a sin to commit suicide, so instead she asked one of her guards chop her head off. This severely damaged Ishida Mitsunari’s reputation, her death affected both the eastern and western armies and made many hostile towards Mitsunari.
@@TheGhost-fk4eoi already know this.
日本人の感覚だと、４０％くらい真実かもしれません。
これは大部分が作り話です。
しかしとても良く作られた素晴らしいストーリーです
これを機会に本当の日本の歴史を知ってもらえたら嬉しいです
@@anas-432 Yes but you neglected to mention some of this on your initial answer, so I was just clearing it up so people don’t start believing that that’s how she died in real life.
The actual poem by Gracia Hosokawa (Mariko) goes like this:
Only by knowing when to fall
Do flowers become flowers
And people become people
And her "leafless branch" line earlier was a reference to Ochiba, and it went over Ishido and Yabushige's heads.
What an Amazing real life woman
This show really delves a lot in to the concept of death. Early in the show, John thinks that they dont value life by willingly accepting death but along the way, every death in the show has had some form of purpose or meaning. From the husband of Fuji, the gardener, the son, the general and now Mariko.
If Anna Sawai isn’t nominated for best actress at the Emmy’s and every single other tv awards show for this year, then NO ONE should be nominated!
The scene of Mariko about to commit Sepukku was one of the most intense scenes of tv I have ever seen. I was as exhausted and relieved as she was when she put down her tanto.
Mariko-sama went out like an absolute boss. Just legendary. Anna Sawai deserves all the Emmys and everything else for this incredible performance. I was so shattered by this episode.
They were trying to confine her using shinobi, that way, they won't be "rejecting" her, and she still wouldn't be able to leave. It's basically upping the "it was the bandits" excuse. But Mariko's willingness to die for her cause, ruined that plan.
And openly accusing of Ishido of sending them in such a shameful attack with her dying statement is the nail in his coffin. He absolutely cannot save face now if he doesn't let the hostages go
About Blackthorne stepping up as her second: One thing to consider is the excruciating pain associated with stab wounds to your belly. What the second does is an act of mercy for someone who is clearly dying and in unspeakable pain.
He’s also stepping up to save her soul by killing her rather than allowing her to kill herself (although at that stage it would really arguing semantics)
Agree. I read that the process for women was a little different than it was for the men. They position the knife blade at their heart and fall on it until they are laying on it and it is pressing on the floor on the other side. The second then uses a sword to decapitate the woman so she doesn’t suffer too much (same as they do for men). When Mariko spoke to Ochida I think she mentioned Mariko taking a blade to the heart so that seems to track. Such a traumatic episode! Very emotional.
@@susanbauer2430 This is correct. A man opens his belly, a samurai woman stabs herself in the heart, typically as you say, by falling forward on the knife.
Mariko 最後正視了自己的姓氏、正視了自己的愛情、明確執行任務，只為了完成更偉大的目標RIP❤
Yabushige didn’t intend for Mariko to die. He only betrayed them to make them surrender and save himself.
Mariko, however, knew full well that her death will make her an ultimate martyr and send the ripple effect across Japan (because she saved the hostages and she also represents Christianity so that will turn the hostages’ families and Christian lords against Ishido) so she did what she did.
exactly, she purposefully chose to go to that spot instead of through the gate. She lived there with Ochiba as Children, so she knows what would happen.
I need clarification: My interpretation was that Ishido could not deal with Mariko without consequences and that's why he asked Yabushige to let the shinobi in so they could get rid of her without letting her "commit seppuku" or leaving on her own accord, so he could perhaps deny responsability (?) If that's the case, I don't understand how Mariko giving up her life in that moment would accomplish anything different since killing her was the shinobi's goal to begin with?
@@marcgm7917 she can’t die. That’s the problem at their hands here. They can’t brush her death under the rug with “bandits” or “assassins” after her public display. Their best hope is make it look like she was sneaking off in the night and was taken out in the woods. That was why when the shinobi got to her, they did not kill her, but just carried her off.
@@khaii13 Oh I get it now, thank for your comment. What a messy job those shinobi did though lol.
@@khaii13Maybe to kidnap and detain her. That would work as Ishido can lie to every lord that she changed her mind about leaving or she is too unwell to travel that she is resting somewhere else.
Ishido knows that she can’t die. Now that she did, he’s in trouble as everyone, especially Christians will be against him.
Achara-Sama and Jaby-Sama are too damn fast with the reactions. The turn around is diabolical 👏
Acharya-no-kata & Jabi-dono.
I may be wrong, but I think the vertical line, opposed to all the horizontal ones, is exactly how Blackthorne feels: alone, isolated among thousands of lines that go in another direction, one he cannot understand. He has no power to change the course of events. He is frustrated. A very strong episode, it made me shudder, because it reminds us that the most beautiful things in life can be at the same time painful and leave us vulnerable. The best series I've seen in years...
i think mariko's death scene was an example of history being the better writer than fiction writers.
それは彼女が、細川ガラシャだからね。
That's not how Hosokawa Gracia died and the death scene was taken almost directly from Clavell.
This isn't a documentary. The story is inspired by history, but it is fiction.
@@mikehoang31 historical fantasy, like literally every popular history show, vikings, last kingdom, black sails, rome etc
What are you on? This story is no more history accurate than Braveheart... but unlike Braveheart, Clavell had the good grace to change the names.
I'm not the kind of person who talks during TV shows when I'm alone, but in that last moment, I actually whispered "No..." 😢
Same. I was devastated
Mariko knew this was her last hours and she spent them with John who she had witness grow to be not just the Anjin but a samurai worthy of her love. ❤️
Homewrecker.
@@PROVOCATEURSK Nah Buntaro wrecked that home long before Anjin showed up, Even if Buntaro had some redeeming qualities in the end
When he stepped up to be her second I think he showed her how much he loved her and respected her choices. She knew he didn’t agree with or fully understanding why she had to do it but supported her anyway. That’s love.
@@PROVOCATEURSK Another point, in the book, Anjin goes to Toranaga and asks his permission to marry her, this was missed out of the show. Even back then couples would divorce
Yes, I feel like "Anji-sama, let it happen" will haunt me forever. Not only did it feel like a plea for him to now mourn too much for her but that it also was a request to join her in the afterlife....a request she had denied her husband.
I'm gonna leave my opinion as a Japanese. Mariko really knows her's duty like Hiromatsu who died at Ep8, and she was considering to use her's life, how to die in entire episode. Most normal Japanese who weren't Bushi (Samurai) Family didn't think how to die, because they don't have power so they were always taken their life in the war one-sidedly. But Mariko was born in Bushi family what has a long history, she is a person who has rights to decide when she die, that's a special thing in Sengoku period. She knows the value of life herself that's why she left from the stage.
I know everybody confused why many japanese character trid to die in Shogun, In Japan history Bushi families were alway specific chosen people, if you search about Bushi life, you're gonna enjoy Shogun more!
Thank you for your explanation. Samurai culture always fascinates me.
Everyone is so skeeved out by Father Alvito but he's spoken honestly every time he appears
It's kinda trendy to despise Christianity.
@@SCharlesDenniconno because he is the EXACT wolf in sheeps clothing Jesus mentioned in his Sermon. He has ulterior motives as he’s sent by the Portuguese. Someone need to reads the Bible Propely.
In this story the jesuists are villains. but from all of them Alvito is the most straightforward. In real history yeah these barbarians were kinda villains to the point of view of the japanese, but also their story was tragic later when persecution started. Real history is more complex
@@kansairobot2015 it’s only right. If someone comes to your home pretending to be a guest but plans to own your home you will just sit and accept that?
@@Oakland510 you argue in vain since I agree with you. The thing is I can see the two sides of the coin. And the banishment of Christianity had also tragic overtones and real victims. For that I recommend watching Silence. (it is from a japanese author btw)
I literally yelled "noooo!" when that door exploded. crazy cut to credits
The short sword samurai carry with them is an auxiliary sword (wakizashi) that is used as a back up sword or in close combat. Seppuku can be performed by that sword and the dagger (tantou) that Mariko was using.
The actress that plays “Lady Ochiba” kills it every time she’s on camera
fyi, She also stars in some Japanese series on Neflix "Eye Love You" and "Vivant".
Loved the dialog between Ochiba and Mariko because it shows variation within the same cultural fabric. In many ways, they are alike but also opposites. Similar ranks, experiences, and cultures grew up together, and both families were destroyed. But their focus is polar opposites.
Mariko has always sought death and has built her life around the opportunity to end her life so she can be reunited with her patrilinear family, which is just and honorable by that time's moral standards. It would be even better if that death served the cause of her lord. The same way of thinking can also be found in Fuji. Ochiba, on the other hand, has always sought to survive and has built her life around her son to see him grow up and claim his inheritance.
This different position produces very different attitudes to death. Where Mariko sees a meaningful and noble death, Ochiba sees a premature and pointless death. The latter takes a much more utilitarian stand when she says, “Tell me, how will piercing your heart protect your son?”.
Dialogs like this are effective in dispelling notions of cultural determinism.
Mariko went there to do one of two things. Get out, or die. They were about to be captured, so the only remaining thing was to die from Ishidos actions.
The actress who plays Mariko deserves an Emmy. Full stop. She ate that role up!🎉
I’ve never been so emotionally devastated by an episode in my life. The pain before her attempt at suicide, then the relief and joy of it not going thru, just for it all to hit me at once again when the door blew up! Like WTF 😢😢😢😢. Also by her not taking her own life, and by it being by murder from Ishido, will cause the whole country to turn on him and allow Toranaga to become Shogun. Crimson Sky to us was going to be a battle, when it was really done via a political move. Ishido has now fallen, all the regents will now also be disgraced as well for allowing it all happen under their watch. Mariko was Crimson Sky and she has won.
That’s exactly what Ishido was trying to do: capture and shame her and undercut what she had done to free herself and the other hostages.
Her last words are hugely significant: she, a samurai, is formally accusing Ishido of her murder and doing it in front of highborn witnesses.
Apparently the hand tapping the Shinobi used was counting for "resistances", he taps and Yabu nods on every tap and at a certain point the Shinobi nods to allow more men inside
Damn, the attention to historical detail is crazy
Was it not for coordination? they don't exactly that wrist watches
I'm Japanese, but the Japanese history classes I took at school were boring and I was only interested in the Sengoku warlords. I decided to watch this TV drama (novel) after learning that it depicts historical characters and historical stories.
Thank you for creating such a wonderful work.
Thanks to this TV drama, I want to learn more about Japanese history.
How is the image of this show in Japan?
@@Oakland510It's on disney plus and fulu so not famous but some people are talking and saying good quality.
man, I felt Blackthorne's sigh of relief when Ishido brought the permit
What a beautiful episode…
Easily the best episode so far. It was beautifully shot as well..
「散りぬべき時知りてこそ世の中の花も花なれ人も人なれ」 Gracia Hosokawa
Only when you know when it is time to scatter can flowers in this world become flowers, and people can become people.
Thank you.
Thank you for your transformation. I prefer translating 「人」to 'person'. Samurai's background is Zen and become him/her-self is important, for example Hiromatsu became himself by dying for others in episode 8. Also, just saying 「花」(flower) , it means Sakura (cherry blossam) especially in the past. Its life time is so short as if it knows the time to scatter. I hope Japanese culture would be understood by this show.
It was part of the plan. Toronaga plan was to weaken Ishido from inside. Mariko succeeded. Ishido has more enemies now.
Mariko did whats called a 'big brain' move. They were only trying to abduct her. If she's abducted, she can't kill herself or leave. She knew if she died in this attack, she not only saves her own soul from damnation from suicide but also frees all the hostages and discredits Ishido as she is a noblewoman who was 'totally not a hostage'
And Father dome-head drops his soundcloud rap and historically is the one who buries her christianly
I read in an article that John makes a line in the zen garden to disrupt the "flow" of the waves drawn in the sand. He wants to change and stop what is happening.
If you want to understand the meaning of the line in the Zen garden, go back and watch the very first scene of the show between Blackthorne and his Captain.
It's extremely important that Mariko's very last words in life start with a reference to herself as "I, Akechi Mariko..." Earlier in this episode during the confrontation with Ishido, she referred to herself as "Toda Mariko, daughter of Akechi Jinsai..." That shift in self-reference is the most crucial development in her story. Her actions in both the novel and the two miniseries' adaptations were ALWAYS about restoring her family's good name. The genius of Toronaga is that he understood her at that level. He then used that knowledge and rather than let her "die a useless death" he used her intelligence, cunning, loyalty, passion and love for her family's name (and her deep love for her father) to create circumstances that undermined both Ishido's and Ochiba's power over the noble families they need to exercise control over to stay in power.
Here's to hoping the finale is two hours long. I'll be suffering withdrawal symptoms once this show ends. ☹ 👏
Don't be angry with the writers for the way this episode turned out. It happened almost exactly this way in the book this series is based upon. It was a tragic, but poignant end for Mariko. In the end, she was both her father's vengeance and Toronaga's peregrine falcon, the one you send to wait for the perfect moment and then render a devastating, lethal blow. The next episode should explain how and why (I don't want to spoil anything), and tie it all together. I am eagerly awaiting the last episode, myself, to see how the writers render the rest of the book's story in 1 hour. Although, to be fair, when the book ended it felt like there should be another 3-4 books. A lot is left hanging, or maybe just left to the reader's imagination for the future.
I've always been a fan of the original mini-series (1980), which I'd definitely recommend you watch, but they've done a great job with this version of the story. They've omitted some major things I think should have been included, but I think that's the case in almost any film adaptation from a book. Literally, everything about this show is stunning. I hope they win ALL the awards for all the hard work that went into this.
1) You guys are asking what Blackthorne's motivations will be going forward. Pretty sure he and Buntaro will be united in trying to kill any and everyone who works for Ishido.
2) I think worth noting that the reason the Ninjas were trying to take Mariko alive was that if she died, either from murder or suicide it was going to be a political disaster for Ishido. He can't admit that he's taken everyone's families as hostages and now he's accidentally killed an important one. Remember Lady Ochiba's comments about how bad this would
3) Think about how this looks to the vast majority of Japanese Daimyos who do not have a seat on the council and were at this point uncommitted. Toranaga was morning the death of his son and said that he was on his way to Osaka to surrender to prevent a Civil War. He sent a Samurai Princess of ancient lineage to Osaka to bring him his infant son so that he could see him before he surrendered. Said Samurai Princess was murdered incredibly dishonorably by Ishido who has been holding everyone's families hostage. Ishido will now have to release those hostages or admit what he's done. But Toranaga is asking if in the name of this murdered Samurai Princess of incredibly ancient heritage, you wouldn't mind gathering your Samurai and marching on Osaka to dispense justice to Ishido. Lots of them who were previously uncommitted are going to say yes.
4) The line "Flowers are only Flowers because they fall" is from a poem by Hosokawa Garcia, who was the Japanese Samurai Princess who Lady Mariko is based on and who committed Seppuku with the help of retainer rather than allow herself to be made into a hostage (but not by William Adams, the English Pilot that John Blackthorne is based on).
散りぬべき
時知りてこそ
世の中の
花も花なれ
人も人なれ
最高のリアクション、ありがとう。
This ep broke me Mariko and John Performance was amazing. This is the first time in a long time I have seen Jaby this affected
This episode devastated me🥲
Probably my favourite episode of the season. Definitely my favourite of the last few.
This WAS Crimson Sky...or at least the first step in it. Toranaga knew what would happen - it was a way, in one fell swoop, to give Mariko the escape from life that she wanted while also restoring honor for her and her family and rallying everyone to his side for the bigger end game. She was no goshawk, and he knew this...he knew she would get the job done.
It's interesting to hear so much criticism about Toranaga and his driving ambition, and his willingness to sacrifice everyone he cares about to realize it. I don't see it that way at all. His ambition is a united Japan, which was the vision of the Taiko - there is nothing personal about it. He believes (rightly, IMO) that he is the only person capable of accomplishing the task, and knows that it will likely leave him completely alone in the end (as he foreshadowed in a speech earlier in the series). Heavy is the head that wears the crown is one of the central ideas of this whole series. Toranaga simply had the will to see the Taiko's vision through, whatever the cost.
Toranaga can be described as
“Absolute power corrupts absolutely”.
“With absolute power, comes absolute responsibility”.
@@nont18411 Could not disagree more with the first statement- he's not corrupted, nor does he have absolute power. The second statement I half agree with - he does have absolute responsibility, to the promise he made to the Taiko.
THANKS for this series of "Shogun" commentaries!!!! I love watching you two, I really do!!!!
The older generation who watched the original 80's series, watching the shock of those who weren't prepared for this episode in the new series......
I can't wait to hear Mariko's final poem in the finale.
At first instant everybody knew Mariko won't die at sepouku but what twist at the end. Her mission was to die if necessary like hiromatsu and inflame emotions against the throne. Ohhh her brainwashed son's words must have been hurting more than stabs of knife.
Anna Sawai 😢 god bless your talent. I better see an Emmy nomination. Rip Mariko. Damn you stood on business.
Have to agree in interviews she has a very animated face. So to keep your face straight but say so much with your eyes is impressive. She's said she wants to do more of this serious acting I really hope she does as she's very good at it. If she was to pop her clogs tomorrow this is the sort of thing she'd be remembered for not for crap like furious and Monarch.
That last ending song after her death made me cry.
My soul died twice this episode...
One complaint that I kept hearing prior to the shows start was making Mariko into a Mary Sue and that she would be the bestest fighter defeating all the Samurai. I am glad that they didnt do that and yet she was still powerful in her own right. We know she is capable with the Naginata but in the end realistically she couldnt beat all those Samurai but she did beat them with her wits and that is a mark of a great character.
Agree they didn't make her a Mary Sue and they didn't make her a beech either. They made her feminine with inner strength and fortitude. They gave her a back a story that made you respect her ability to still be strong. I was rooting for her not being cringed by her.
The episode was poetry - the most amazing episode - no words.
I agree with you Jaby, it was sadly beautiful the way Blackthorne stepped up to be Mariko’s second. I feel in lesser storytellers’ hands John would have rushed forward to stay Mariko’s hand and declare his love for her and she would be so caught up in her love for him that she would go against her duty. Instead they went with the more emotionally layered approach, which is much more powerful.
She was so powerful that I wand more of her this was a amazing proformence 10/10.
I love your every reactions and discussions! the best!
Thank you for the sincere discussions trying to understand the bushido and the loyal spirit of those special time in Japan.
from Japan❤
このエピソードでは細川ガラシャまたの名を明智玉（鞠子の史実の名前）の生き様を描いてくれましたね。昔の日本人の誇り高い生き方を描いてくれました。
I don’t know that I’d say Mariko was Blackthorne’s entire motivation. He’s literally in Japan to try and get them to help defeat Portugal and Spain.
Also Habushige’s task was to help them capture Mariko. So why would he help move the box?
And Mariko wasn’t frustrated in the fight. Her entire plan was for them to be defeated and kept. Her entire reason for being there is to get Ochiba to turn on Ishido.
Her death as a devout christian and a guest "hostage"will galvanise Ohno and Kiyama against Ishido
if that's the plan, then why toranaga had to make a drama to look himself weak and utterly defeated? it doesn't make any sense now, because what happened on osaka definitely shows that toranaga is up to something.
@@saiduarte2782 To "expose" to the other houses that Ichido is a cruel tyrant with no grace towards the subordinates and by extension their lord who is a weak and defeated enemy.
That he truly is a "bureaucrat who comes from nothing" because he disrespects the legacy and proud lineage of the nobles who've elevated him.
where was her Christian Values when keeps having sex outside marriage ??
@@aid-f there was nothing to expose because they were already know that for sure. but being persistent getting out from the castle to be with toranaga shows different motive imo.
Anjin coming foward to second Mariko-sama hit me hard.
Even though he knew it would haunt him forever, he desided to support and respect the choice of her life and death which was beyond Buntaro‘s reach.
I teared up.
The face she made before taking his hand said everything.
How could they make a seppuku scene so tense and romantice at the same time!!
Mariko’s death was to bring other lords on the fringe and beyond to Toronaga’s side against Ishido
Fallout and Shogun are putting Achara and Jaby through the wringer.
Also X-Men 97.
Mariko being killed has complications with Lord Ishido and everyone because she was murdered,so the clans in Osaka will revolt because they will think that Ishido sent the assassins to kill Mariko. Yabushige the snake is frustrating but he is a survivor.
Once Mariko starts to identify herself, it's nice and realistic that Blackthorn doesn't have time to save her and explodes immediately.
Her sacrifice now ensures the families will rally against ishido while at the same time, allowing her to die without committing sin.
She sinned having sex outside marriage with Blackthorne this episodes, and premarital sex with him in ep4 when she assumed her husband was dead
@@Oakland510 Nobody knows what didn't they? Her sacrifices will outweight the other 'sins" she have committed.
The reactions to this show have been beautiful ❤
The symbology of a line through a perfect garden is he disagrees with the Japanese way.
It's a powerful symbology
Maaaaaan, this episode had me on an emotional rollercoaster. I yelled at my TV afterward lol.
Ishido had a great (evil) plan. He hired a ninja clan to abduct Mariko and kill all the guards and retainers of the other noble ladies who were going to leave. They can't leave without their (now dead) retainers, guards and servants. Ishido then blames the whole sneak attack on Toranaga. A very good plan had it worked. Unfortunately Mariko's dead body will now be found INSIDE the castle and all the court ladies witnessed what actually happened. This will cause many of Ishido's loyalists to turn on him. Toranaga is now winning the battle for the hearts and minds of Japan. There will be a bloody battle (or war) but Torinaga is now unstoppable. Torinaga hoped that Mariko would be able to leave the castle and take the noble ladies out with her, although he knew this was unlikely. In that case Mariko was to commit suicide making Ishido look like the bad guy he really is. Due to Mariko's wits, bravery and loyalty, things turned out even better than Torinaga had hoped. Mariko's death insured that Torinaga will become Shogun.
The final scene is shocking, but in this era, a beautiful view of life and death prevailed, in which it was better to die than to be defeated and humiliated by one's enemies. In actual Japanese history, Mariako ordered her vassals to intercede for her. In actual history, Mariko was Hosokawa Garasha, the daughter of Akechi Mitsuhide, the shogun who defeated Oda Nobunaga by treason. She was also a Christian, so she could not commit suicide, so she asked her vassals to help her take her own life. It is a magnificent story that has been passed down through Japanese history.😅
Ughh i cried almost this whole episode!
Oh no, if Achara is crying then I'm definitely going to cry. Her crying is my kryptonite 😢
My perspective as a Japanese woman: That fight scene with Mariko at the gate was just the right level of intensity. Anything even slightly more combatitive would have put me off. I don't even understand why badassness is talked about for that scene.
I didn't see that coming. Rip the best Char in the show....i will miss mariko so much
I've read the book. I've seen the mini-series. I know how the real-life basis sacrificed herself.
This still tore me up.
The line blackthrone drew on the ground is a statement of how his thinking is different from the rest, they all flow in the same direction accepting their fate but not him, he's like f that I'm going this way. He again showed it in the storage room. I really like this character, he added a genuine contrast to the setting as an outsider if you get what I mean.
To be fair, there was only ONE way a tragic character like Mariko's story was going to end. Even if I hadn't known the history these characters are based on, you could tell she was doomed to die. Basically her obsession with death could only end one way.
But it really is such a beautiful tragedy. The writers did a damn good job adapting the novel and Anna Sawai deserves ALL the awards. I feel blessed to have experienced possibly the greatest tragedy across all media.
And Anna's "Anji-sama, let it happen" will forever haunt me.
I love how you guys broke down the scene where Blackthorne volunteered to be her second! So on point!
I just read this part of the book last night! I couldn't believe it. They wanted to kindnap her because dying fighting is honorable and Ishido wanted to dishonor her. That's why she sacrifice and by doing it her death means something. (About Mariko's fighting you must watch the podcast that the FX youtube channel is releasing every week right after the episode is on air. They decided to go with realism. The kimonos are heaving and it is difficult to move and that weapon is super heavy too so in reallity a samurai woman would fight like Mariko did)
Mariko: “Hold the door. Hold the door. Ho dor. Hodor.”
Too soon.
Way to soon bro
Toranaga's brother had the Red Wedding feast betrayal. Yabushige is Littlefinger. Mariko is Brienne. Does that make Blackthorne Jamie or Tormund Giantsbane?
Don’t compare that god awful GoT with Shogun
So now we know that the references in Game of Thrones came from Shogun, a novel published in 1975
**** this show 😭😭😭😭😭 I can't anymore, it's toooo good
this episode was Explosive!
私は、英語力は有りませんが。御二人の感情豊かな表現と貴女の涙は素敵です👍
The remains of Garasha Hosokawa who is the model for Mariko-sama is buried at sozen-ji temple in Osaka. Please visit the temple and make a memorial service for her when you come to Japan.