Men (Dead Meat Podcast Ep. 170)
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- Опубліковано 23 сер 2024
- Chelsea and James discuss Alex Garland’s Men, or: Oops, All Rory Kinnear!
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MUSIC!! "U Make Me Feel" by MK2
I will say as a former victim advocate for domestic violence that men actually threatened suicide or self harm a lot it’s just not talked about in main stream conversations
❤❤❤
As someone who's attempted suicide independent of any relationship nor threatening it, I am absolutely appalled that human beings can be that fucking stupid and vindictive to threaten self-harm for intimacy or relationships. Scum of the earth.
100 PERCENT I DID IT TWICE TODAY
@@supertoxicgamerayo?
i know its not as easy said than done but remember even if they do you arent to blame and i hope youre doing better
I spent almost this entire podcast thinking I recognized Rory, but couldn't place what I'd seen him in. Turns out I was actually confusing him with his father, Roy Kinnear, who played Veruca Salt's father in Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory.
Oh my gosh you've just opened my mind to the 7 realms.
That's why he looked so damn familar!!
yes, he's a nepo baby
The movie is fascinating, but also a prime example of an artist flying too close to the Sun. There is stunning, original, and unforgettable imagery, and two brilliant lead performances, especially Rory Kinnear, who absolutely kills with a very difficult task but what does it all add up to? When Garland finally tries to connect the disparate ideas in the film, the Green Man iconography, toxic masculinity, the self-inflicted wound that won't heal, etc, the wild-ass juggling act all just collapses into an impressively vivid mess.
I agree. I REALLY like this film, but the whole is definitely not greater than the sum of its parts. I love the ideas at play. I think they're endlessly fascinating. But they don't come together in any cohesive way. And that's not to say that the multiple subjects being explored couldn't have been mixed well. Or that the film needed to be less vague. I just think the script needed another few passes to bring it all home in the 3rd act. Funnily enough? It reminds me weirdly of Halloween Kills. You can SEE the vision. There's all the ingredients for something great. But they just don't all come together. Ultimately, I'd say Men zigged when it should have zagged. But its merits are strong enough and interesting enough that I think it's worth watching and revisiting.
THIS is the review, this right here. Great ideas, terrific central performance, but it really does feel like Garland (as much as I like him) realised he still had budget left over and remembered the first time he saw Videodrome.
omg so true bestie!! the movie definitely overcompensates for its complete lack of nuance with its cool visuals. i liked them and i didnt have as much of a problem with the cgi as james and chelsea did but it wouldve been nice for the symbolism and themes to have the same amount of depth, about as deep as rorys backussy
Not really. The film is great
YES!! Very this! Resonates with Chelsea's point too that I kinda liked what I was watching but the overall lasting impression is that it's a bit of an overwraught, kinda pretentious mess.
Geoffrey is the most aggressively British looking character I’ve seen in all of media
I have to say, Chelsea really hitting it on the head with women feeling intimidated by the simple things that some men do and not being made to feel like an over sensitive weirdo, feeling very seen. Thank you Chelsea 🖤
Ahahahaha! I have been waiting in terror for *months*for this review because I worked on the VFX and was literally thinking the whole time 'I've got to make this look good or Chelsea and James are going to tear it apart!' 😂 😂 😂 Sorry you weren't super keen on them but honestly the team was so great and this film was such a goddamn blast to work on, that final sequence in particular, that it couldn't dampen my enthusiasm.
I genuinely hope I get to work on another horror, I love the genre and we so rarely get to do them. I agree that *when done well* practical effects look better. My dream would be to work on something that has good practical *and* CG that we can blend seamlessly. One day damn it....
Love you guys! Thank you for the honest review!
I can't imagine working on the. birthing scenes and the guy getting his forearm cut in half. Those scenes were so gross 😂
I went to see this movie with my partner and friends, and we are all animators/work in the animation industry and once the "what the fuuuuck" comments subsided all I could think about was "Oh my god props to the vfx team because they probably had to look up so many child-birth videos for reference, I could never.". So kudos to you and the team, because that final sequence made my brain implode and twisted my stomach something good XD
@@Strampunch It was certainly a memorable experience 😂
What was great was after a while we kind of got numb to seeing the shots in dailies as they were progressing. Then they started adding in the fluid effects 🤮
I recently watched the movie for the first time, and my boyfriend and I kept saying how good the effects were! I was even convinced the hand-cutting scene were more practical than CGI. A hearty very well done to you and the whole team!
Imagine MEN but every male character is played by Vince McMahon.
That would have made this movie so much better
HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA
MEN but every character is danny devito
The eight faces of McMahon!
McMEN
Even with a cast of just Rory Kinnears this film passed the Bechdel test, because she gives her friend a house tour.
This just made me laugh so hard.
But did it pass the Kinnear test? Meaning two Rory Kinnear characters who are given names must have a conversation about something other than a non-Rory Kinnear?
@@rasellewolf yes. The barman and Jeffrey talk scrumping for a single line.
That's sad wtf.
@@corinnae.7877 It is supposed to be a low bar to clear.
Alex garland read a bunch of mpreg fanfics and just started writing in a blind panic
shoutout to Chelsea for all of her work on Dead Meat !! it's rlly disappointing to see her overlooked for verification and stuff bc she is such a * major * force behind this channel.
"It's ORANGE as hell" James & Chelsea as they are sitting in a mostly orange room
They never disappoint when it comes to set decoration.
I never would have thought to hear the word backussy on this channel and I’m here for it
Okay, I saw this movie in theaters with a friend and (like you guys), we were cracking up during the birthing scene. But afterward we were also digging through the themes and imagery trying to figure out what everything meant. This is what I came up with:
I was struck by the artistry surrounding her husband's death. There was something biblical about it, with his hand being pierced as if in crucifixion. It made me think about how death can elevate an imperfect person into a saint in the eyes of those still alive. You can't speak ill of the dead (or process your own grief), especially when the death is so brutal.
I totally agree that the birthing scene was a big ol' cyclical metaphor of how the treatment of women in this movie in a generational issue. And I love the fact that Jessie Buckley decided to act just done/exhausted during that scene. On one level, it felt like she was in on the absurdity of the scene. But also, that this kind of self flagellation and trauma dumping (when used as an excuse or justification) isn't surprising for women.
At first, I was confused by the conflicting imagery of both Christian iconography and Paganism (the Green Man). But I think that was kind of the point. Harper is trying to heal from the trauma of her husband's death, so she tries to escape to Nature (an environment that women are often depicted as having deep connections to). But her escape and healing is interrupted and invaded by different types of men: The Vicar and the Wild Man.
The vicar can represent Christianity interrupting Harper's more pagan/spiritual connection to Nature (imposing a religious morality and guilt that does not belong to her).
The Wild Man is a little more complicated, because he looks like the Green Man (a figure of Nature often depicted as being surrounded by leaves). But there's that one scene where he peels open his forehead and presses a leaf there before putting his skin back, which didn't strike me as a natur(e)al thing. It made me wonder if this Wild Man isn't actually the Green Man, but just a man trying to adopt (and toxify) the symbol of rebirth.
This movie was so fucking wild and somehow managed to be both heavy-handed and symbolically vague at the same time. It makes it fun to try and project explanation and meaning onto it, but also offers little confirmation to those theories. I liked, it, but it's also not one I'd blindly recommend to people without some kind of disclaimer.
With the biblical comparison in mind, it reminds me of how many men think they are the prize and all the nothing they do is some huge sacrifice like the life of Christ.
A year late...but I wonder if nature man is at first meant to imply that toxic masculinity is in man's nature. But then later we see him cutting open his forehead to add leaves, then giving birth - both of which are unnatural. In that way of thinking, the "nature" of man isn't this toxicity that a lot of guys purport as what being a man is all about.
Me after James and Chelsea joke about podcast viewers being their fav fans: oh boy im getting a good grade in watching Dead Meat, something that is both normal and possible to achieve
I loved the film, but I also loved listening to James and Chelsea explain why it didn't work for them. Life would be so boring if we all liked the same stuff
I saw this video and Immediately knew it would not be their thing. It's a shame because Men is a really good movie on a rewatch!
I'd be fine with hanging around people that like the same shit as me, oh yeah, that's what friends are. This idea that you're missing out on life by not being exposed to morons is bizarre. Guessing you're one of those "Centrists" (i.e. I don't have a real belief system of my own) when it comes to politics.
@@cyborgoftheyear Literally who asked for your ramblings
They dislike everything I swear😂
I saw this in theatres like most people, and honestly loved it. It was something so different compared to most horror movies. I loved the imagery and the plot. It was also very shocking for me and definitely went for the unexpected. I feel as though the uniqueness and the unexpected of this movie is the reason why I loved it so much outside of the imagery and how it's an attention-puller.
I think A24 shot themselves in the foot by calling it Men, it immediately alienates everyone that SHOULD really give this film a chance.
The examples and discussion of sexism and toxic masculinity seem very surface level, like any woman watching this is already gonna be experienced and.. I guess already KNOW what these things stem from and how they affect you
I think everyone who sees the title and goes "bleugh blugh politics bleugh 'Why not make a movie called WOMEN' bleugh misandry" would NOT be aware of these things and this movie could... maybe? hopefully? give them insight on it
I think the same. After seeing the movie, the title is a bit misleading. I watched FoundFlix's video on it and in the comments people are saying that exact thing "make one called WOMEN now heh heh!"
I think the title also takes away the opportunity of the movie to be subversive. Compare it to a title like Jennifer's Body which SEEMINGLY tells you this will be a movie about a demon succubus blah blah, but ends up being a feminist take on friendship and sexuality. Whereas this just tells you straight up it's a movie about toxic masculinity without letting you discover that on your own, which I think would go a long way towards feeling like you're discovering themes in the movie instead of being beat over the head with it like in the final product. The movie is basically exactly what you think it'll be with some body horror thrown in for no benefit.
Gonna have to agree. Even Chelsea seemed to go into it in a biased state of hyper-awareness of whether female representation was adequately applied in the actual production of the film, completely distracting her from the film itself. Just watch the fucking movie.
@@cyborgoftheyear i think she did an apt job dissecting it, I mean when a film is gonna try and do what this film wants to do theres no reason, as a movie reviewer, you’re not gonna- yknow
Review it
@@christianjuarez5967 Honestly this retroactively makes me enjoy jennifer’s body a LOT more
Never expected to learn about Vince McMahon's retirement from a Dead Meat video, but it is oddly perfect.
Also, this movie seems interesting. Hard to parse but interesting.
I doubt that it's anything other than distancing his name from the product.
Bird is a slang term for a woman in Britain so Geoffrey snapping its neck & then it having the woman mask put on it later just adds to all that men abusing women & such.
Wow! That's really fascinating. I wonder whether Alex Garland really intended that allusion. In a film like this, you'll never stop finding new things lurking beneath the surface.
@@colinbaldwin313alex garland IS english, so more than likely intended
@@SamSphinx I'm sure you're right. It's interesting that it's Geoffrey who does it, since his character seemed to represent chivalry: the facet of toxic masculinity that is patronizing rather than violent. Maybe that's Garland's way of saying that all toxic masculinity is inherently hostile to women, even when it's ostensibly caring and protective?
@@colinbaldwin313 that read makes sense!
i would pay money to be called a bird 🐦🐦
Chelsea I didnt know that Men was a movie , i genuinely thought you were gonna drop the most iconic and ambiguous podcast episode about men in horror. An episode about women in horror would be very interesting.
The alternate universe where Alex Garland never made men and Chelsea just decided to cook is one i want to go too now.
My experience of seeing this movie in the theater was truly life imitating art. I was one of three people in the theater, and the other two were both women sitting together kinda far from me. Once it ended they both left immediately and I felt the need to sit for awhile so I wouldn’t be awkwardly close to these strangers.
the way you two talk about the 'podcast audience' vs. the rest of the dead meat audience never fails to make me laugh. Also love the transition in Chelsea's attitude towards that phrase (podcast audience). I remember when she would tell James to stop lol. Now shes telling us that we're their favorite. love it.
One thing I found really interesting about this movie, which I don’t think you guys mentioned, was that in the last part of the movie. The injuries that the green man suffered, broken ankle, ripped through arm) were the same as the injuries to Harper’s husband in the flash back of her finding his dead body. Just something I found was a nice touch.
I enjoyed the movie and was looking forward to hearing a woman's perspective on it. I saw the dandelion seeds as sperm (with the Green Man 'procreating' by 'spilling seed'). I didn't see the movie as much of a critique of MEN, as it was an examination of love. I came to this conclusion at the very end, when Harper asks her husband why he's doing this to her. His answer is "because I love you." So to me, the movie was a study of why men's 'love,' or whatever it is, is so destructive, and how it's sort of evolved over time, since primordial man
Your comment about love makes me appreciate the film a little more, as someone who didn't really care for it.
Ahh that makes way more sense. How toxic masculinity twists how they express their desire for a woman's love or attention. And I suppose in the end, how it destroys them in some way when they pass that down to the next generation of men.
Yeah... that's not love
Thank you, came here expecting an in depth analysis, but they really missed it this time.
This man's love. Not men as a whole. Believe it or not, most men actually cherish the people they have a relationship with.
I kept on trying to predict the plot twist of the film throughout the whole movie 😂😂. I first said it was an inbred village then it was a dream then it was aliens. Not a bad movie though and honestly found it funny but had some great jump scared. 7/10 from me
I saw a five star review of this and the text only said Rory Kinnear bussy so I had to check it out, and honestly I had a blast.
I love Rory Kinnear! He's such a great actor. I remember watching him in National Theatre Live's production. of "Othello" with Rory as Iago.
I don't know if it was just me being stupid and not really paying attention, or that the various male characters were made to look that different from one another, but I couldn't tell they were all Rory Kinnear.
Also fantastic on Penny Dreadful, probably the best actor on the show along with the goddess Eva Green
I hope I'm not the only one who appreciates him as the current Tanner in 007.
Rory Kinnear was soo good in Penny Dreadful! He played a version of Frankenstein's monster in it and also another character as well. Such a brilliant performance!
dead meat referencing stan brakhage, specifically "window water baby moving" was definitely the surprise reference of the year. love it.
I will say the scene with the naked man in the yard while Harper is on her phone is one of the scariest scenes (for me) in a horror movie in a long time.
Something about no music, jump scares, just lingering and the scene being so long just really creeped me out in a way I haven't felt in a while from a horror movie.
i am so unbelievably excited to hear everyone’s thoughts on nope- i went in completely blind and adored it
Lmao that look Chelsea gives the camera when she provokes James about WWE and he has the exact reaction she was expecting
I really enjoyed this film. It's gorgeously put together and the performances were stellar. But it's the subject matter, and exploration of it, that really won me over. The way Alex Garland visually tackled the film's themes was so impressive to me. It's one of the most effective horror films since probably Hereditary for me. It got under my skin in a very similar way. Couldn't help but sit silently through the credits and process what I had just taken in. One of my favorites of the year, by far
This episode is going to be a goldmine for future out-of-context games.
The tunnel scene (or rather, the guy appearing, running and screaming) is probably one of the scariest scenes I've seen since the alligator scene in X. And when she walks around in the forest on her way back and then hearing the SCREAMING in the distance? Nooo thank you. It also was a really weird scream, too. It sounded like the mating call of a fox.
Yes! And even worse, that kind of sound would be appropriate for someone falling over themselves to get to her. But it seems like the guy is only at a brisk jog, which is just disarming
The Green Man is representative of rebirth, new beginnings, starting over etc, which i believe is tied into harper's friend showing up pregnant in the ending. Also i think a major part of the third act is the way Harper is reacting to what is happening. At first she's horrified, but the farther along it goes the more exhausted and frustrated, and almost indifferent she seems. By the time it's her husband walking into the room to sit on the couch, she doesn't appear to be afraid at all. When she sighs and says "....yeah...", that to me implies she was finally able to move on from her guilt, accepting that it wasn't her fault what happened to him.
I do like that Garland made it a point to show the blood on the porch and the crashed car, as it takes away the audience's ability to question whether any of it actually happened or not. Interestingly enough, when i walked out of the theater i overheard some woman going off about how this movie was just man-hating, that it was implying all men are the same. I even saw a review of someone angry at the film saying that "My husband is a good man and would never do any of this, this movie is disgusting." I can't help but think Garland including the aftermath was done for this reason, as if the people disregarding the film as "man hating" are like the men in the film disregarding Harper's thoughts and opinions.
All that being said, some of this may be totally off, and I'm open to hearing other interpretations.
I was listening to the Jekyll and Hyde soundtrack and got the notification for this right when bring on the men ended
And on todays episode of things that never happened…..
@@otpyg13 believe what you want, have a nice day
From Jekyll and Hyde the musical? Love that music!!
@@otpyg13 sometimes things like that happen. I was just venting to a friend how much I hate the Black Phone and low and behold Amanda the Jedi posted her review on it and I had no idea she was doing that vid.
@@filmfangirls9163 yep! That's the one
MEN really is one of the movies I've ever seen
Thank you for covering this film. I seriously loved it and got what it was trying to say. I can still see it being in my top 5 at the end of the year.
Not sure if this has already been touched on, but I really like the idea of her projecting her voice in the tunnel until the guy shows up and her voice literally gets lost in the echo chamber. Not sure if that was fully intentional on the director’s part but I think it’s neat!
Cutting back to James nodding his head in gleeful approval at 1:01:38 after Chelsea confirms the man's schlong is quite the sight = 🤣
This was an episode of Tales from the Crypt with like 70 minutes of additional footage.
I’m late to this but I wanted to talk about Sheela na gigs! I took a class on monstrosities in art history and one of the themes of discussion was how women and women’s sexuality is portrayed as monstrous, especially in religious iconography. Sheela na gigs can be interpreted as a kind of Vagina dentata (which I believe Chelsea has talked about in previous episodes). They are protective statues mounted on the exteriors of churches to ward off demons, but yeah they’re basically just a spread-legged woman. There’s this concept of one of the most offensive monsters being that of a sexually deviant woman (medusa, scylla, sirens, etc) where a woman who is open about her sexuality is fearsome since men then have no power over her. What can he take from her if she is already/willing to be deflowered? And that ties into current conversations about misogyny and the desires of some men to have “pure” and “virginal” partners, as if wanting sex is a flaw in women.
I skipped seeing this in theaters because of the mixed reception but I absolutely adored this film when I watched it by myself
Watched this with my friends. Made the mistake of going into the movie without knowing anything, didn’t even watch the trailer. Was shitting myself
I think everything about “Men” besides the actual story is phenomenal. The visuals and acting specifically. I just feel like the subject matter is like, such a well known and talked about thing at this point where it almost seems redundant and pointless to have as the center of a movie. However, it can also be argued that if the subject matter was toned down more, then the movie could improve upon itself. But who knows?
Nah
Surprised they didn't mention my favorite aspect of this movie. Harper, the townspeople, nor the movie addresses the fact that all the men in this movie have the same face. That leaves a lot open to interpretation. Does Harper or anyone else even see what we are seeing? Are all men the same and Harper doesn't see that? Does Harper view all men as the same subconsciously? Is it the town itself?
I'd say Geoffrey is the only real Rory Kinnear in the movie and every other one is an allegorical figure for her trauma.
Nothing has ever scared me more than that adult man's head on a child's frame.
This movie has become a bit of a meme in my friend group, actually. I just tell my friends to watch it and send me a pic/video of their reaction during the last 20 minutes (their faces never disappoint), and so the ones who haven't watched it yet get curious about it and cave in. But at the end of the day, did not like it, and neither did my friends... how can something be so on the nose and still have so many metaphors in it? Someone on the gc said it was kinda like if Get Out was directed by a white guy and at the time we all laughed but... huh.
I’ve seen some clips for this movie and it looks wild, well acted at least. Still very curious to watch the whole film. Cinematography looked wonderful too.
Oh, man. I can’t wait to hear all the out of context clips that get taken from this podcast episode. It’s going to be glorious!
A whole lot of -ussy !
I think what really made the themes of this movie work for me was that vicar scene in the bathroom. I guess as someone who has a degree in English and knew all the references he was using it really hit home for me what Garland was trying to say with the movie. I agree that ultimately it's about toxic masculinity being passed down through generations, but it's also commentary on the systems that created it and uphold it. The main one being the church. I took the greenman as also being a symbol for Adam. He's naked. By the end he basically becomes one with nature. In the bible it's said to be Eve's fault that there is sin because she chose to disobey god's orders. This idea of original sin then has been passed through the church and its teachings which has ultimately influenced things like literature and media. We get the reference to the Odyssey where Ulysses is traveling through the wandering rocks on his hero's mission where he encounters the sirens who want to tempt and stop him. This engrained sexism in our media, in our stories, in our myths, in our government, in our religions still has its fruitions in modern day. This is symbolized in Geoffrey. In the cop. In the men at the bar. I agree it's not subtle and I wonder how it would hold up with a more subtle undertone, but due to just how fantastical and allegorical the movie becomes, it didn't really bother me. Similar to Mother! as you both mentioned. And I guess I disagree that Garland's project was to say that men just suck as so many on the internet seem to think the point of the movie is. It's not just men suck, but that men as an institution is a historical system of oppression. So Idk if this film ultimately says anything completely new that we haven't seen before, but I guess that doesn't really bother me because how often are there truly new and unique ideas? I think the themes of this film were addressed with nuance and ultimately a really creative style. And personally I absolutely loved the birthing scene. It's definitely some horrific imagery that will be very hard to forget.
Also, just to address the friend being pregnant at the end, I definitely do not think it's just a coincidence considering the whole birthing finale 2 minutes prior. I took it as an antithetical theme to the rest of the movie. It's a symbol of hope. It's that the institution of men has the ability to pass down its toxicity, but women also have a say as to what gets passed down into society. Not that there can't be toxic femininity, but that women have power and a say in our future. And that women are ultimately responsible for creating the future of humanity. That things can change and be better. That's at least how I interpreted it!
Another interesting thing is how Catholic teaching frames Eve's disobedience as Adam's fault, as Adam was charged with providing for Eve. It's taught his failure to ensure she was well-fed before pursuing his own leisure-time caused her to search for food, thus left her unprotected to encounter the serpent.
I work at a movie theater but didn't have the chance to watch this movie. However, I happened to walk in during the last sequence of the movie and I was left speechless.
Well when the Vicar came back and brought up how she "sexually tempted" him, if memory serves he brings up that this was something that occurred a long time ago as if he knew her in a past life. So from what I gathered from that is that the face of Rory Kinnear could possibly be a face of a past abusive figure in her life like an abusive parent or relative or just stalker in general. I haven't seen the movie since it's release so I'm probably 100% wrong about this 😂 I'll probably have to rewatch it but I think what I gathered is The Green Man is putting on a familiar face from her past almost as if what happened to her soon to be ex husband sparked something she was trying to hide. I don't know. I do agree that the ideas presented in this film aren't uniquely presented nor anything we haven't heard before.
I’d love to see an Annihilation kill count, especially since James and Chelsea are big fans
I saw it in IMAX theaters and let me tell you it looked amazing. The vibrancy of the forest the reverb of the sound just made the entire thing a surreal experience!
I think the suggested ending of her being over it is the best idea. It makes it all the better because of how crazy the ending gets and then she is just over it. I had the thought that it would have been an interesting experiment to make a movie called women at the same time and release it at the same time in theatre’s. The idea of that is just interesting to think about.
I enjoyed Ex Machina and Annihilation (to a less extent), but this movie put Alex Garland in my top 5 directors of all time. Masterful storytelling and effective use of metaphors to elicit emotions from the audience- Alex Garland had me wrapped around his finger and I'm all for it. The cinematography is superb and the incorporation of Harper's voice into the score blew me away. I expected a unique film and I got what I wanted and more.
YES! After I watched this movie I needed to hear people talk about it.
I can summon up my feelings for this movie pretty easily: I just don’t like being told about all the ways being a woman sucks by a man. It’s maybe cynical, but like at every massage I was sent I just sat there like ”…umm yea I know, what do you have to say about it?”
Hot take: you shouldn’t have to do research in order to enjoy a movie. It should stand on its own two feet.
That is a hot take, and a bad take. That basically means if you are immature and incapable of understanding a film you are blaming the film rather than yourself automatically rather than actually exploring critical analysis. Do you like any movie ever unless it's just blatant trash at that point? With this logic you have no reason to enjoy most movies if you just wilffuly make yourself ignorant.
This is one of those movies I like but also 100% understand why someone wouldn't like at all. A prime example of "not everyone's cup of tea."
James & Chelsea: Rory Kinnear plays so many characters!
Penny Dreadful viewers who've seen him as Frankenstein's Monster, the dude before Dr. Frankenstein reanimated his body, Lucifer and Dracula: First time?
I didn’t even know this was a movie. I just saw the Podcast title and thought, “Damn, men scary me too.”
I loved the old Universal and Hammer Films as a kid so i especially loved your commentary through the Dracula Kill Count. thank you for that and the Frankenstein one.
I really liked this movie, maybe one of my top 5 fave horror films this year so far
If I may ask, what's your number 1? I haven't seen any great horror film this year except for Men and X and I'm looking for a good one to watch.
@@E_l_l_i_e
1. X
2. The Black Phone/The Innocents ( both are premiered in 2021 but released in 2022, idk so I just put them there I guess)
3. Men
4. Crimes of the Future
5. Fresh ( if you consider this a horror, if not then Scream take the spot)
I think Jordan Peele's Nope will replace one of these if I ever get to watch it
@@johanliebert8400 thank you for sharing your list! I haven't seen Crimes of the Future and Scream yet. I have no idea how I missed a Cronenberg movie but I did. I'm undecided whether to see Scream or not, not a fan of the first one but maybe I'll give this one a chance. Crimes is at the top of my "must watch" list for this week.
@@johanliebert8400 Update: I watched Crimes this weekend. And I absolutely enjoyed it. Definitely one of Cronenberg's best work. And Viggo Mortensen is such an amazing actor. Thanks for letting me know about this gem of a movie!
@@E_l_l_i_e wow that's good to know!!!
We’re just normal men. We’re just innocent men!!
This wasn’t how I expected to find out Vince McMahon is retiring, but I’m not really complaining.
I’ve never been so hype for a podcast than nope next week, it can’t come soon enough im so excited for it
I completely understand why you feel the way you feel about this movie, but i love it. If i wasn't tired I'd give my thesis on the film. Long story short, this isn't a story about "men bad", this is a story about abuse, systemic or otherwise. It's also about how men try to help women but may make their situation worse. And finally, it's about the fear of responsibility to take care of a child. I'll edit this later to explain more. I need sleep. Also can't wait for Nope discussion, loved that film.
Seeing this movie at 11 am on a Monday in a theater where only 2 other people showed up was an experience
Just wanted to stop by and say that if you’re referring to the song “Love Song”, the female singer (Lesley Duncan) is the original artist; Elton John’s is the cover.
Me running to watch the new killcount because I was just in the middle of a Resident Evil series binge and missed it when it came out 🏃🏻♀️
My girlfriend and I saw this movie together, and both of us loved it. I was really excited to hear Chelsea’s review of it but I think both her and James explained themselves so well that I totally respect their perspective. My girlfriend found the messages of this movie to be reassuring, cuz even though Chelsea mentions that women are already aware of this sexism portrayed in the movie my girlfriend loved how a man was willing to talk about it through this movie. It was really interesting to disagree with Chelsea and James for once, but obviously after watching this episode it’s clear that neither one of us are “right.” It just worked better for me and my partner than it did for them.
My thoughts on Men are... Complicated. See, I liked it, with the caveat that I watched it at Cannes with a q&a with Jessie and Rory and it was my first festival experience. So, as time has gone on I can't really be sure if I liked it because of the movie itself or the context. It's beautifully shot and we'll acted, but I'm scared that the experience may have allowed me to gloss over it's flaws.
I’m glad I’m not crazy! Me and my friend left the opening night screening of this film and we both said basically the same thing. It built up well then it fell apart completely at the end. I wish I could enjoy this film as much as it seems some people did! But unfortunately I walked away feeling very disappointed
With this and Mad God it sounds like you two are on a very surreal, unsettling kind of horror kick. Which is genuinely interesting because it's a side of horror that doesn't get anywhere near as much exposure as the more straightforward, blunt, jump-scare kind of horror. So hearing people go so into it even when it's clear it may have not been a film fully to their tastes is nice just for a change of pace from everything else.
Love this episode, but the last five mins was my favorite part. You guys are the best lmao, but James, you messed up, because now I will absolutely dissect movies in the podcast comments! (When I've actually seen them lol, haven't gotten to 'Men' yet.) Filming these looks like tons of fun, I hope to love what I do this much one day!
I saw Men in theaters and really enjoyed it but I feel like I got a different read than the majority of the people that watched it. I don't see this movie as a "tOxIc mAsCuLiNiTy" movie. I understand that it's the surface level tone of the movie, but I actually see it as a story of a woman that was completely destroyed by a man and her path to finding closure. I saw all of the men in the village as projections of certain traits her shitty husband had on each seperate man. The little boy was his anger, the vicar was his lust, the innkeeper was his complacency/gaslighty quality, etc.
I think the final sequence supports my take too because, at the end of the whole "birth", her husband was the final result. And the final line of him saying all he wanted was her love and her scoffing was the first time we really saw her give resistance to her blaming herself and finally giving herself some closure.
I also really liked that they didn't explicitly say if he just fell or if he killed himself, because it makes her own self-blame even less deserved and shows even more that the things around her are her perception of blame and grief.
That's exactly how I read the film. I don't see the message as "all men are bad". Instead it made the audience experience the birthing pain (no pun intended) of the process of healing.
Your take is spot on
Takes are fair.. but when the general consensus is leaning one way then we MUST blame the writers. Depending on their aim for this film, if they wanted to commentate on men in general and not toxic masculinity then they seemed to have missed the mark when the majority is confused about that. Revision revision revision.
@@adamklase8547 I actually don't feel like that's a fair take. When someone writes, acts, directs, or produces something they're making a piece of art that gets sent out and then other people determine what they determine off of it. My take of the movie isn't what a lot of people took away from it, and I understand the disconnect. James and Chelsea didn't like the movie because they caught a different take than I did. I agree with them on some points and think the movie had some faults, but my main argument was that people were holding up Men as if it was some PC Toxic Masculinity™️ statement (which I think discredits the soul of the film).
I think it was a deep film about grief and personal acceptance. I think it was actually a more "grief-worthy" film than Hereditary (which it's mostly compared to). I'm not right or wrong, I just have a different take of it.
I thought the Milky Way shot looking like a vagina was pretty neat, that’s definitely got to be some symbolism there. All in all Men was not my favorite horror movie ever, but I think it’s such a weird mindfuck to watch I still had a lot of fun
my best friend and i also laughed out loud at the ending lol i’m so glad it wasn’t just us, thank you 😂 chelsea you always validate my feelings on movies
Thanks for calling me your favourite! 😁
I pretty much agree with everything you said, including laughing at some points, but I really liked the movie. Not as good as his other films, but I thought a lot was just really cool to see in a theatre.
Dude swung for the fences in a way he hadn't before. While it fails as a whole, it succeeds in many compartmentalized ways.
Give me a podcast episode for Annihilation. You guys seem to have so many thoughts about it and it’s one of my favorite movies.
I just want to say thank you James for saying that you felt maybe you're not smart enough for this movie. I felt the same way. I also had to go look up other people's thoughts, and appreciate yours and Chelsea's.
We asked, the Dead Meat Team signed, sealed, and DELIVERED 💖
Just fyi Lesley Duncan wrote and performed Love Song first. Elton John is the cover, not the other way around. It's a very beautiful song and I appreciate the original! I'm glad this movie exposed more people to it.
Chelsea does somewhat have a point that there’s not a lot to Harper outside of her circumstance, I think Harper is a more well rounded character if you take the entire thing as a visual representation of a mental conflict (which is admittedly an unbelievably cliched reading of a film, but it makes sense to me with this one). Then we get an idea of her differing battling perspectives and opinions, which feels more like getting to know her.
How did I not notice that all the men are played by Rory Kinnear
Really agree with the majority of people when it comes to the technical aspects of this film. It was beautifully shot & amazingly acted (Jessie Buckley is fantastic), but the themes just fall flat because they’ve been done before in much better films.
Something I did notice is that there were seemingly 4 main Rory Kinnears and 1 Paapa Essiedu (Harper’s Husband)? Maybe this could have been a portrayal of the 5 Stages of Grief. Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, & the Acceptance of her husband’s death finally coming through in their last conversation. Just a thought.
Love the podcast! I’ve been a long-time Kill Count fan for a long time so 1 hour discussion type videos from you guys SLAP. Can’t wait for the Nope podcast episode!!
My most memorable Vince moment is when Stone Cold poured cement in his corvette!
I was super excited when they mentioned the old religious ‘pagan’ symbolism in Christian spaces.
I’m from the UK and that is very common. There are green men and other symbols in most older churches. I’ve been told that’s because Christianity was slowly introduced and had to adopt pre existing cultural ideas to make itself acceptable to the local population.
So it’s not a contradiction, in my experience, for these religions to be blended. We’re all a little bit pagan 😂
My 15 year old sister asked me to watch this movie with her in the cinema. I heard nothing about it prior so it was a crazy twist when there was suddenly a 40 foot, CGI vagina staring me in the face creating mukbang ASMR, popping out full sized people like some shit from ABC's of Death 2: Zygote.
James don't feel bad. I didn't realize that every man was played by Rory Kinnear until well after I finished the movie. I'm not even faceblind. Just dumb.
IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS ONE. TURN IT UP
Broooo you gotta do Nope next. I swear it actually gave me chills for a bit after I saw it.
As Steven Yuen's character said, "in an hour, you will be changed". I was certainly changed.
@@loki1456 it was an unnerving experience and everyone in my theater was changed
This movie just felt like a twisted episode of Little Britain😂
I actually didn't bother looking up peoples thoughts online about the movies, I just figured it'd be a shitshow and I was happier not looking at the 'discourse'. Interesting to hear that the majority preferred the end to the start. I was curious about the story and what direction it was going to take and really was on board with the first two thirds, but that finale just kinda let me down, turned into a poor cgi mess of a cop out imo. Definitely the weakest of his three films imo - and i'm not in a hurry to rewatch it.
*edit* I can't find the timestamp sorry - but when Chelsea is saying the movie felt like it struggled to have anything new to say, so much as it was just like - 'yeah, as a woman, we know about all this shit' - it just reminds me of the james franco 'first time?' meme. (the irony of that meme being james franco of all people is not lost on me). It was all just kinda frustratingly surface level, if this had come out way closer to the Me Too movement, and when there was a VERY bright light being shone on this stuff, it might've been more timely - but as it stands, it just feels a little late to the party and we're just kinda having to say to the movie, 'yeah - we know, catch up'.
I'd love to hear a full episode on Annihilation !
Between this and They/Them we really do need Women to finish out the non specific gendered trilogy of horror movies
Well, in some respects Her is a horror movie
Ain’t sayin she a gold digger but she ain’t messin with no broke vicker