This podcast came well-timed for me after just finishing the book, Wesley and The People Called Methodists, 2nd Ed. and in which Calvinism and Arminianism is addressed throughout as applicable to John Wesley's opinion of the two during his lifetime of ministry. Thank you for the podcast and the detailed discussion with Dr. Clark!
What a fabulous service you are providing for those who truly seek to know the mind and will of God and how we are to respond to Him. If we take our faith seriously, we should seek to understand it as thoroughly as possible. Great guest.
Dr. Clark sounds very similar to William Lane Craig both in his Molinism and even in his tone and style. I applaud that thoughtful calm approach. This was a great interview and an excellent counterpoint to the Calvinist gentleman Jeffrey hosted before.
William Lane Craig refers to himself as an ant-Calvinist for good reason. We need more like him and Dr. Jerry Walls as well. High Calvinism (imho) is a direct threat to Wesleyan theology.
Loved this guest . Great thinker and probably good teacher. Great ability to break things down into the basics and build back from there. Thanks for this interview.
I love deep diving into real theology nerd stuff, and I find conversations like this fascinating. I would love more on explaining how total depravity is reconciled with the Arminian understanding of free will and and our true choice in whether or not to repent. I cannot see a scriptural basis for the determinism inherent within the Calvinist system, but I'm still struggling with how one holds to total depravity without requiring determinism, since in my understanding total depravity entails not just that we will always sin but that we are utterly unable even to turn to God and repent of that sin. I believe - and I'm new to studying it - that prevenient grace was Wesley's answer to this, but unfortunately this interview didn't address that concept. I'm looking forward to more interviews that really get into the weeds of Wesleyan theology!
I'm glad to see that you are finally addressing this subject. I would like to see you interview Jerry Walls on this issue. That's not to say that this guest didn't make a solid and helpful contribution, I'm just saying Jerry Walls is better known.
Great talk. I definitely side with Richie, but after my time having this talk with many Reformed friends I have grown worn out of the debates. I side with Richie on a lot of things including how he's approaching this subject. Scripture first, deep respect for Reformed friends, and I agree this issue matters. I definitely want to encourage people to look into these discussions, and return to the sources and read through them (which is why I read them online for others to listen to), but I feel my bread and butter is on other matters. I think encouraging talks on these topics is great though, to highlight how people can have these differences, without them being divisions. While also calling out genuine errors on things. Such as Semi-Pelagian and Pelagian thought that needs to be pushed back on at times. The Scriptures are the correction.
The description of the crucifixion is interesting in regards to whether or not those who were committing "murder" were doing so under God's direction (which is obviously false) or because God foreknew they would do this. Scripture also says God will turn what we do that is evil into something good. I also agree with the comment "who can know the mind of God." We should be careful not to judge God in whether He directs anyone to do evil or allowing people to do evil. I believe anyone who does evil grieves God. Thank you for another enlightening discussion.
Interesting but could we have a concise summary? Could he reduce this to an “elevator pitch?” That’s about as much time as Calvinists or the person in the pews will be patient for.
What does Dr Clark say about the common (mis)belief that if we (humans) don't accept Christ prior to our biological (first) death that we lose our chance for salvation. David Lowes Watson discusses this issue. Alot can happen during the Intermediate State (Purgatory). See Dr Jerry Walls.
I disagree with the analogy that people wouldn’t choose hell. People know that overeating and not exercising will ruin their health and future happiness and shorten their life but gleefully overeat for the pleasure in the now. Likewise people son now for pleasure and think they will figure hell out later.
I appreciate the conversation but the Calvinism vs Armenian discussion does get boring. As a Methodist I just don’t understand Calvanism. I think it misses the forest for the trees. I have never had a Calvinist give me a satisfactory answer for how Titus 2:11, “For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,” and many other passages are not definitive.
It seems Calvinists believe we are nothing more than puppets being totally under the control of the master puppeteer. This brings so many questions to mind. Why have any commandments, if we can not freely choose to obey or disobey? Why have the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden if Adam and Eve can not choose whether or not to eat? Why preach the gospel to the lost when they are lost no matter what we say or do?
@@sheldon3996 The Savior, Jesus the Christ, my Lord whose birth we celebrate today. Isaiah 9:6: “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.” This verse, penned hundreds of years before Jesus' birth, points to Christ as our Lord and Savior.
Jesus Himself is God’s elect. He is God’s Israel. The Stone which the builders rejected has become God’s chosen cornerstone. All who, by His grace, choose Christ, are “in Him,” and therefore, they are included in the Elect, Jesus.
This podcast came well-timed for me after just finishing the book, Wesley and The People Called Methodists, 2nd Ed. and in which Calvinism and Arminianism is addressed throughout as applicable to John Wesley's opinion of the two during his lifetime of ministry. Thank you for the podcast and the detailed discussion with Dr. Clark!
What a fabulous service you are providing for those who truly seek to know the mind and will of God and how we are to respond to Him. If we take our faith seriously, we should seek to understand it as thoroughly as possible. Great guest.
Dr. Clark sounds very similar to William Lane Craig both in his Molinism and even in his tone and style. I applaud that thoughtful calm approach. This was a great interview and an excellent counterpoint to the Calvinist gentleman Jeffrey hosted before.
William Lane Craig refers to himself as an ant-Calvinist for good reason. We need more like him and Dr. Jerry Walls as well. High Calvinism (imho) is a direct threat to Wesleyan theology.
@@michaeltyndall6815 But WLC has also said he is a Wesleyan and a proper Arminian
Loved this guest . Great thinker and probably good teacher. Great ability to break things down into the basics and build back from there. Thanks for this interview.
Dr Clark clarified some issues I was a bit fuzzy on. I'm very grateful.
Excellent conversation! Happy to see an Orthodox and grace centered exposition of Wesleyan-Arminian theology
I love deep diving into real theology nerd stuff, and I find conversations like this fascinating. I would love more on explaining how total depravity is reconciled with the Arminian understanding of free will and and our true choice in whether or not to repent. I cannot see a scriptural basis for the determinism inherent within the Calvinist system, but I'm still struggling with how one holds to total depravity without requiring determinism, since in my understanding total depravity entails not just that we will always sin but that we are utterly unable even to turn to God and repent of that sin. I believe - and I'm new to studying it - that prevenient grace was Wesley's answer to this, but unfortunately this interview didn't address that concept. I'm looking forward to more interviews that really get into the weeds of Wesleyan theology!
I'm glad to see that you are finally addressing this subject. I would like to see you interview Jerry Walls on this issue. That's not to say that this guest didn't make a solid and helpful contribution, I'm just saying Jerry Walls is better known.
Great interview Jeffrey. Sadly, most Christians don't have a clue if their beliefs are rooted as Calvinist or Arminian.
Great talk. I definitely side with Richie, but after my time having this talk with many Reformed friends I have grown worn out of the debates. I side with Richie on a lot of things including how he's approaching this subject. Scripture first, deep respect for Reformed friends, and I agree this issue matters. I definitely want to encourage people to look into these discussions, and return to the sources and read through them (which is why I read them online for others to listen to), but I feel my bread and butter is on other matters. I think encouraging talks on these topics is great though, to highlight how people can have these differences, without them being divisions. While also calling out genuine errors on things. Such as Semi-Pelagian and Pelagian thought that needs to be pushed back on at times. The Scriptures are the correction.
The description of the crucifixion is interesting in regards to whether or not those who were committing "murder" were doing so under God's direction (which is obviously false) or because God foreknew they would do this. Scripture also says God will turn what we do that is evil into something good. I also agree with the comment "who can know the mind of God." We should be careful not to judge God in whether He directs anyone to do evil or allowing people to do evil. I believe anyone who does evil grieves God. Thank you for another enlightening discussion.
Interesting but could we have a concise summary? Could he reduce this to an “elevator pitch?” That’s about as much time as Calvinists or the person in the pews will be patient for.
What does Dr Clark say about the common (mis)belief that if we (humans) don't accept Christ prior to our biological (first) death that we lose our chance for salvation.
David Lowes Watson discusses this issue. Alot can happen during the Intermediate State (Purgatory). See Dr Jerry Walls.
I disagree with the analogy that people wouldn’t choose hell. People know that overeating and not exercising will ruin their health and future happiness and shorten their life but gleefully overeat for the pleasure in the now. Likewise people son now for pleasure and think they will figure hell out later.
There are MANY Anglican priests who are Calvinists❤
You know ML Jones was a Calvinist-Methodist too😂❤️
I appreciate the conversation but the Calvinism vs Armenian discussion does get boring. As a Methodist I just don’t understand Calvanism. I think it misses the forest for the trees. I have never had a Calvinist give me a satisfactory answer for how Titus 2:11, “For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,” and many other passages are not definitive.
It seems Calvinists believe we are nothing more than puppets being totally under the control of the master puppeteer. This brings so many questions to mind. Why have any commandments, if we can not freely choose to obey or disobey? Why have the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden if Adam and Eve can not choose whether or not to eat? Why preach the gospel to the lost when they are lost no matter what we say or do?
Hi Eileen, are you willing to engage with me in loving conversation? If so, may I ask, “Are you saved?”
@sheldon3996 I am. Are you?
@@eileenthrift8259 Thanks for your reply. Yes I am saved too! Now may I ask, “Who saved you?”
@@sheldon3996 The Savior, Jesus the Christ, my Lord whose birth we celebrate today. Isaiah 9:6: “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.” This verse, penned hundreds of years before Jesus' birth, points to Christ as our Lord and Savior.
@@eileenthrift8259 I am so glad to read your response! One last quick question then, “Did God save you accidentally or did He save you on purpose?”
Jesus Himself is God’s elect. He is God’s Israel. The Stone which the builders rejected has become God’s chosen cornerstone. All who, by His grace, choose Christ, are “in Him,” and therefore, they are included in the Elect, Jesus.
Wesley is right there with Finney......heretics