Nice to see a factual video without the big hype other channels have put out so far. Big ado about nothing really if you like the performance. I agree the recall should be more detailed.
I have 18000 miles on my 2021 Ram 3500 HO. Half of that is towing a 22K fifth wheel. I have keep track of the DEF usage since day one. I get about 500 miles per gallon of DEF on average. Empty, my DEF useage would be less than my average. BTW I am happy with my truck's performance.
@@wallyyuriy8912 you are right. Just wanted to document def usage since my truck came from factory with updated software. Anything built since October 2019 has updated software.
@@caseybalvert3547 ok thanks. Just got a 23 ho myself. I’ve put in def 3 times (10 litres per time). Sitting at 82xxish km now on it. I’d say 25% of the km is pulling
Lots of updates are made by dealers pre-delivery, be glad they flashed the latest software before delivery! Why would they bring that up not knowing (in 2019) that there would be a large scale emissions recall?
2023 3500 3.73 SRW and I am averaging 800mi/gal of DEF, mostly highway driving unloaded/moderate load. Monitored it from day 1 and it has varied between 750-850mi/gal.
I have a 2018 RAM 3500 DRW 6.7L HO and AISIN. I use a 2.5 Gallon box of DEF approximately every 18000 miles here in Texas. Emission recall not performed (going to avoid it as much as possible). What I want to see a recall on are the UConnect Screen, Tailgate Camera failing, and the most important is the Electronic Braking System issue.
I have a 2019 3500. I just looked at the recalls that have been done. My VB6 was done. No date as to when. I bought it used 2 months ago. It's the HO with 4.10 gears and has no problem pulling my 5th wheel. Maybe one day we will know what the recall really did.
Wow, that’s extremely respectable! Frankly, I was shocked when this story hit the news. I’m very glad that you have a good truck. My diesel Ram 1500 was a huge fat lemon that had to be bought back.
Excellent presentation! My experience with diesels has shown the fuel quality will affect all the emissions systems. For now I have been using Hot Shots Secret EDT in both our diesel pickups. My wife drives a 2018 Ram 2500 4wd with the beastly Cummins 6.7L. We carry a Hawk Model 4wheel popup camper. We try and drive a sedate 61-65mph. Most trips yield about 20-22mpg. My wife's truck only has a little over 35k miles. But during the last 2 years, the truck had a problem with a P20EE code. After 4 visits to the dealer, with a lot of pricey parts replaced. The code came back a 5th time. I replaced the main battery with a new AGM battery. No problems since. I get the impression that a lot of these emissions problems. May really be battery and poor grounding problems. I have fixed gasoline and diesel vehicles strange operating problems by cleaning and tightening the connections. With some factory batteries testing bad on realitively new vehicles.
I have a 2018. The recall is real and have now read enough to know, it will alter performance. I also have other issues. Replaced both batteries a while ago, issues still escalating...
Hey guys, not sure if you realize this, but the current recall (from the $1.6b fine case) is 67A, not VB6. VB6 was published in Feb. 2020, which is why it was already done. If your truck is a 2019, there is a production date eligibility point: any truck built prior to October 1, 2019 needs the current recall. Any Ram built after that date (including 2020-current) does not. It's unclear to me if the VB6 recall being performed on a truck means it doesn't need the 67A recall performed. That would require VIN specific investigation.
Pretty sure i posted a link to a couple of their videos with the epa’s list and it said the exact same thing. Build date after OCT 1st 2019 werent effected with 67a but whatever
The garbage part of this is that the money that’s paid in the fines, should go to the consumers who purchased the trucks. In a way they were lied to about their trucks and (possibly) suffer from a loss in what they expected by doing the recall.
Had to do the 67A recall for CA registration. I lost 3-5 MPG unloaded calculated. DEF usage went from unnoticeable to about 500 miles / gal. Obvious loss in low end torque. It’s not the same truck anymore. Regen went from approximately 1 :5000 miles to 1:500 miles. Wish I lived in a free state. I’ll be looking for a 5.9 now
Mine is a 2017. Just had it done. I have the EXACT same experience as you and I’m pissed. My truck is not the same. It even sounds like shit. I hope they hear our complaints as they snowball. I’ll never buy another ram, Chrysler, Jeep unless they make this right. Spread the word!
Plain and simple, the dealer did not want you to know about a recall that lowers the power and torque of your engine from advertised , because they were afraid you would’ve passed on the purchase. The reason you like the way the truck drives is because you had nothing to compare it to prior. If you’re happy, then that’s all that matters. Ram/Cummins trying to keep up with Ford got caught with their butt in a sling.
The reason your vehicle Might Not show up on the recall list is because of its Manufacture date. The Manufacture cut-off date is October 1, 2019. All trucks manufactured BEFORE that date are eligible for the Recall, all trucks manufactured AFTER that date "No Recall Needed". - Thats because cummins already loaded the crappy tune in the ECM before the engine shipped. I'm with you on this! Cummins is avoiding tell us how this will affect our trucks. It certainly is NOT going to be good! Many owners have already posted Loss of Fuel Economy and Increased DEF Usage. I would also imagine they will Increase the EGR gas that is put into the engine!! All that added garbage will increase wear particles into your engine and engine oil, as well as wear out Emission Components faster - Hence a little bit of extended warranty on some parts. Of Course they Don't want to tell anybody that! This Increased Wear and Tear is Not going to show up in a month or 2, but it is going to happen to your truck!!!
At the dealership level, sometimes we are given a Safety Recall letter from mothership indicating whatever vehicles we have in stock(pre-sale) must have a specific repair completed prior to that vehicle leaving the lot. Now, it can be sold, but it cannot legally leave the lot. It can be a software update, a harness repair to an emissions system or whatever. I've never heard of a rule that we have to disclose all updates prior to sale. And to be honest, shame on Cummapart for cheating the system.
The DEF usage on my 2022 Ram work truck is a bit much. I had a 2014 F250 diesel which used a gallon once every 2 months driving 500 to 700 miles a day. The Ram uses a gallon every 3 weeks.
Content i want to see, dyno a pre recall and post recall cummins, then a deleted cummins, as well as mpg test loops towing and not towing, would be a great video series with useful data
Never trust any paperwork from dealers. I worked for a dealership in the UK and have seen cars come in with no history, new service book ordered and vehicle sold with a full stamped up history. 🙄🙄
The initial investigation into these trucks actually began in April 2019. investor.cummins.com/news/detail/420/cummins-reviewing-emissions-certification-and-compliance In my opinion Cummins was trying to get out ahead of this and deal with the current model year trucks right away. Might have been a move to appease the EPA at the time as well. - Stephen
@TruckKing That is a larger red flag. Dealerships are not able to sell a truck with an open recall, which would be of course, why it was done before you brought it. However, we know via forums that people with trucks newer than yours are getting recall notices. So what's going on here? Did Cummins and FCA know this was a problem for 5 years now? Did they strike a deal with the EPA back then to limit the recall to trucks on the lot so they could sell them? BTW, there has been several emissions related recalls on the L5P duramax since 2017, with little to no media attention and no EPA fines. This whole situation feels like we just opened the can of worms, I don't think this is anywhere close to being over.
@@terrencejones9817the reason there’s no recall on duramax trucks is GMC stand’s for Government Motors Corporation they want to stay clean with the consumers ! Who knows ? 🤪
I bought my '19 2500 in December of '19 and I recieved the emissions recall about 3 months later. They bundled it in with a transmission recall to address fluid getting pushed out from the dipstick of the 68RFE. It included a new auxiliary valve body separator plate and an ecm refresh for emissions. I didn't notice any performance changes whatsoever or increased def usage. Similar thing happened to me a few years ago with my Harley Davidson. Dealer performed a bunch of TSB's on my bike while it was new and unsold. Later on when people were having issues, I questioned if my bike had the upgraded parts and a talk with the dealership confirmed that my bike had the upgraded parts done before it was sold. These were not recalls but TSB's but it would have been nice to know ahead of time that my bike had the latest, redesigned parts.
Thanks for the detail. It begs the question, though, why did Cummins fool around with the emissions if they can (or at least it seems they can) get the power and economy that consumers, like you, expect? 🤔🤔🤔
Can't' really blame the dealer for doing an update that wasn't announced as a recall until 3 years later. They we just updating software like we update our phones.
Bought my 2021 Ram 2500 6.7 with 37,000 miles. Its now at 45,000 miles and hasn't used any def (I pulled the fill tube off to check the level to make sure my gauge wasn't broken and it was at the fill tube inlet). The EGR tube doesn't get very hot either. I just had it at the dealership for a MAP sensor and they scanned it but said nothing about a tune, and the dealership I bought it from said nothing about a tune (I called them to double check there wasn't a tune). So I am guessing its not deleted (dpf canister is still there) otherwise, without a tune, it would be throwing codes. *Daily driver, don't tow anything heavy.
I own a 2022 Ram 3500 HO SRW 4x4 3.73axle AISIN transmission with 16k miles. Our elevation in southern NM is around 3840 ft, and I only get around 14mpg unloaded. And quickly drops to around 10mpg when Towing. I'm very disappointed on the mpg. I asked the dealer if they could check it because I have seen several videos of people boasting on 16 to 20mpg. But no matter how easy or slow I drive, I can't get any better mpg. Has anyone else experienced the same thing?
I feel like it's one less worry for the owner, all you need to know is the onus is on the manufacturer and you will not be in legal trouble, no need to complicate it more than that. I understand the frustration, but if the product works as intended as it was purchased (barring any after modifications), it's moot.
i never will do this update .. i have a ghost tune def/egr detete.. buddy works at a Ram dealer said it was to find out what people did tunes on trucks and to use more def fuel per tank and to lock computers out from being tuned again
Cause when I just bought mine while they was getting it ready after service was done there was a sheet that had the recalls and dates they was done and what they just did to it that same day
Give me the answers and I will give the truck to update, if not then I'm not updating it! I bought a truck with x HP and if it goes down that is on you guys because of emissions issues I was not aware of or responsible for. Buy my truck back then B!!
The software update ruined my perfectly running truck. I’ve lost 3 MPG, torque and power. It even sounds worse. I hope they make this right. I’m livid!!! And the dealer didn’t even mention anything about what the software update was about, just that it was necessary.
So the only trucks that had defeat software in them 2013-2019 2500/3500 trucks. Some and most 2019 trucks have already had the software update done. In fact this issue has been so far resolved that the new software updates have already sustained power outputs. Keep an eye out for 2025-2026. It’s going to be the year of the Ram heavy duty.
The milage on my 2022 ram 2500 tradesman is crap. I have never got over 18 mpg and driving in town is around 12.5 mpg. Towing on the freeway about 14mpg. Towing in town is around 7mpg.
I'm leaning against doing the recall unless something changes. My state, even though it's a liberal blue state, doesn't require emissions testing for diesel vehicles above a certain weight ( mine doesn't require it.) Now I'm not going to delete anything, but I don't want to hurt the truck by adding more emissions equipment.
I'm confused as to how the recall could have been performed over three years ago when this is a brand new recall. Did Ram/Cummins and the dealerships actually know about this issue over three years ago and just not mention it to buyers? Other vehicles must have also had the recall performed like this one, then. This situation doesn't add up.
The recall, fixes and various "defeat devices", are different for different model years and drivetrain setups. They are tied to VIN, as the tracer. Cummins not discloing everything and nothing here yet in CANADA as to how they are going to remedy. They admit "NO GUILT", as part of the massive settlement they have to pay to the US GOV!
So my question is, will the same rules apply to Canadian owners in terms of registering the truck or selling the vehicle? The US restrictions are the software update needs to be done or else the ownership or transfer status will not take place...
If you’ve had that truck for 3 years I don’t see how this new recall was done already since it was just found recently. From my understanding ram has to recall a specific amount of trucks to fix, not all. Like a quota to please there agreement. Not all will get the new recall. You may still get it or could miss it. Not all recalls have even been sent out yet so I don’t see how yours was already done 3 years prior to the recall. It’s quite normal for emissions systems to have recalls and updates.
My 2018 will not pass a smog test after the recall. Fighting Moss Chrysler Ram Jeep in Riverside Ca right now. They both have pretty much blown me off at this point. A truck w/out a smog cert CA is as useless as a brick.
heck even my F250 had an emissions recall on it, but the selling dealer didn't update it. I had another dealership complete the pending recall and I saw zero change in def use, regen, etc. MPG stayed the same, literally no change to the end user.
I didn’t read all the comments so if this has been asked already I am sorry. Was any of ur service work on ur truck done at the dealer after you purchased it? If so maybe the dealer did the update without ur knowledge and never said anything to you. You just happened to find out as you said when you went online.
I wonder if they started updating the software once they learned about the early stages of the investigation? Glad your truck is done and runs ok. The resale price has probably been permanently effected unfortunately.
DEF usage is essentially a function of diesel fuel consumption--the more diesel fuel consumed, the more DEF will be consumed. The rate of consumption does seem to vary, based on the engine. I had a 2012 Ford Super Duty with the 6.7 Powerstroke. It would average about 16-19 mpg running empty. At those MPG numbers, DEF usage was about 2.5 gallons per 7K miles--much less than Rams with the Cummins and GMs with the Duramax. Pulling a heavy trailer getting from 8-10 mpg, DEF consumption, not surprisingly was about double the unladen DEF consumption.
DEF usage also surely has other factors than just, Total fuel used, yes including how used, meaning what is the DEF system being told to do by the PCM. Here, the issue is before and after recall, on same truck with similar usage. That is what we are trying to figure out, and some are starting to report on that now. Software update will most likely change all the numbers...
What size is the Tires on your Truck? I bought a set of these wheels and like the look of these on your truck. Would like to go 1 size bigger but need a starting point!! Love your Videos BTW Thanks
What happens if they reflash my truck but I hit a pot hole a few months ago and all my emissions equipment fell off?? For some reason I don’t have to add any DEF and my mpgs are up considerably better. I’m so confused pls help!?!?
My 2022 uses almost twice the DEF than my 2018. It means less egr in which is good. Take the good with the bad I suppose. The mileage is similar, but I feel my 2022 seems stronger than my 2018. It could be because 3.42 vs 3.73 and/or extra 50ftlb of torque with the 2022 vs 2018. Also 2020+ and up are not apart of the recall. It was a blanketed recall with all MY2013-2023 6.7 CTD with the same SCR emission system.
Cummins was working with the EPA since 2019 and was doing an internal investigation. They updated the 2019’s and installed the updated software on all future builds since.
But, did they really fit it? Is there a way to if they really fitted it? Years ago I took my 2011 f150 to Ford for a transmission recall, they worked on it and they told me it was ready, but it wasn't, I still have the problem
This stinks to high heaven! I have owned several Cummins rams over the years, and this is the last one! DONE, FINISHED! money we put out to buy these machines and then the lack of information, Screw the consumer because we got our money. Where do I sign up for the class action suit against them. 2 billion dollars, has any consumer gotten a check?
Had mine done yesterday. Performance wise I don’t notice a thing. I never kept track of my Def Usage. Not concerned. Way to much drama over this. If you don’t like your Ram over this sell it. Plenty of buyers out there not willing to pay full price for a new truck that is done already.
I also have a 2019 ram, can you explain more about how you got the CP3 installed? Did you have a warranty replacement or did you pay to have it done? It is the one thing that worries me the most about my truck.
My guess has always been that the software had a method or opening that would allow smart software people to delete their emissions and the software update is meant to close this loophole or opening. This could potentially explain why they are quiet about things because they don’t want people to know because many will not get the update so they can in fact delete their emissions and thereby pollute more in violation of the emission regs which is what they’re working to prevent. Just my guess.
I think that might be changing. The recall showed up at the smog check but I don’t know if it would have passed because I had an unrelated code issue. Just did the recall and the truck is ruined! I want to sell it now
This video is somewhat misleading. Just to be clear. Emission recall 67A for 2013-2018 Ram 2500-3500 is the latest regarding the fines. Emission recall VB6 was a previous recall for 2019 only.
Trunk King, when are you going to test a cyber truck? I mean RAMs and GMs are cool and stuff, but Cyber truck is now the talk of the world. Let’s see a true test of next gen truck.
This flagged as a recall, best I can tell so far, due to fact of the BIG EPA/Cummins "settlement" announced 12/22/2023, in the USA. Recall is out now in Canada. "You MUST bring your truck to dealer and do this!".
The 'this has been done' sounds like a dealer accountability checklist. How would they have the recall done prior to being informed of the whole recall being unveiled? Heads aren't talking, just checking boxes so we can say we did our thing. Suspicious as hell.
Because, Einstein, Ram was dealing with it BEFORE it was pushed by the government to be a full recall. Pull your head out of your ass and THINK once in a while.
I’m confused, you’re upset a dealer with a truck sitting on the lot for 6 months brought it in, performed a recall (they get paid by the manufacturer to do this btw), and made sure what was being sold to the public has the most up to date software before purchase? Why would they disclose this unless it was a known major issue at the time? Like you state you had no idea about it until you checked if it was completed. I could see if it was a safety recall and customers were concerned about it being done or not. But a software update that the salesperson probably had zero knowledge of is unlikely to be disclosed. It seems ram was already aware of the problem and has been correcting it for years.
I couldnt agree more. Step up to the plate Cummins...Answer the mans questions. Gone are the days when you just hide in the dark and ignor your ' Paying customers ' concerns.
Nice to see a factual video without the big hype other channels have put out so far. Big ado about nothing really if you like the performance. I agree the recall should be more detailed.
I have 18000 miles on my 2021 Ram 3500 HO. Half of that is towing a 22K fifth wheel. I have keep track of the DEF usage since day one. I get about 500 miles per gallon of DEF on average. Empty, my DEF useage would be less than my average. BTW I am happy with my truck's performance.
Thanks for sharing.
About the same on my 21 SRW Limited 3500. Me too, love mine. Sure, its not a hot rod but it is beast at work.
The 21’s aren’t in the recall. To my understanding it’s only 6.7’s Cummins sold from 13-(early 19’s).
Correct me if I’m wrong though
@@wallyyuriy8912 you are right. Just wanted to document def usage since my truck came from factory with updated software. Anything built since October 2019 has updated software.
@@caseybalvert3547 ok thanks. Just got a 23 ho myself. I’ve put in def 3 times (10 litres per time). Sitting at 82xxish km now on it. I’d say 25% of the km is pulling
Lots of updates are made by dealers pre-delivery, be glad they flashed the latest software before delivery! Why would they bring that up not knowing (in 2019) that there would be a large scale emissions recall?
2023 3500 3.73 SRW and I am averaging 800mi/gal of DEF, mostly highway driving unloaded/moderate load. Monitored it from day 1 and it has varied between 750-850mi/gal.
I have a 2018 RAM 3500 DRW 6.7L HO and AISIN. I use a 2.5 Gallon box of DEF approximately every 18000 miles here in Texas. Emission recall not performed (going to avoid it as much as possible). What I want to see a recall on are the UConnect Screen, Tailgate Camera failing, and the most important is the Electronic Braking System issue.
I have a 2019 3500. I just looked at the recalls that have been done. My VB6 was done. No date as to when. I bought it used 2 months ago. It's the HO with 4.10 gears and has no problem pulling my 5th wheel. Maybe one day we will know what the recall really did.
Wow, that’s extremely respectable! Frankly, I was shocked when this story hit the news. I’m very glad that you have a good truck. My diesel Ram 1500 was a huge fat lemon that had to be bought back.
Excellent presentation! My experience with diesels has shown the fuel quality will affect all the emissions systems. For now I have been using Hot Shots Secret EDT in both our diesel pickups. My wife drives a 2018 Ram 2500 4wd with the beastly Cummins 6.7L. We carry a Hawk Model 4wheel popup camper. We try and drive a sedate 61-65mph. Most trips yield about 20-22mpg.
My wife's truck only has a little over 35k miles. But during the last 2 years, the truck had a problem with a P20EE code. After 4 visits to the dealer, with a lot of pricey parts replaced. The code came back a 5th time. I replaced the main battery with a new AGM battery. No problems since.
I get the impression that a lot of these emissions problems. May really be battery and poor grounding problems. I have fixed gasoline and diesel vehicles strange operating problems by cleaning and tightening the connections. With some factory batteries testing bad on realitively new vehicles.
I have a 2018. The recall is real and have now read enough to know, it will alter performance. I also have other issues. Replaced both batteries a while ago, issues still escalating...
Hey guys, not sure if you realize this, but the current recall (from the $1.6b fine case) is 67A, not VB6. VB6 was published in Feb. 2020, which is why it was already done. If your truck is a 2019, there is a production date eligibility point: any truck built prior to October 1, 2019 needs the current recall. Any Ram built after that date (including 2020-current) does not.
It's unclear to me if the VB6 recall being performed on a truck means it doesn't need the 67A recall performed. That would require VIN specific investigation.
That is good info. Too bad the manufacturers aren’t as forthcoming
Pretty sure i posted a link to a couple of their videos with the epa’s list and it said the exact same thing. Build date after OCT 1st 2019 werent effected with 67a but whatever
www.epa.gov/enforcement/cummins-settlement-nationwide-recall-program-overview
The garbage part of this is that the money that’s paid in the fines, should go to the consumers who purchased the trucks. In a way they were lied to about their trucks and (possibly) suffer from a loss in what they expected by doing the recall.
Exactly!!! Now I’m left with a truck that runs like shit. This is not the truck I spent 50k on.
I really hope it was not a database glitch. These recalls seems sketch. They knew about it 3-4 years ago and now its when we are hearing about it. 😅
Had to do the 67A recall for CA registration. I lost 3-5 MPG unloaded calculated. DEF usage went from unnoticeable to about 500 miles / gal. Obvious loss in low end torque. It’s not the same truck anymore. Regen went from approximately 1 :5000 miles to 1:500 miles. Wish I lived in a free state. I’ll be looking for a 5.9 now
Model year of your truck? Mine is a 2018.
Mine is a 2017. Just had it done. I have the EXACT same experience as you and I’m pissed. My truck is not the same. It even sounds like shit. I hope they hear our complaints as they snowball. I’ll never buy another ram, Chrysler, Jeep unless they make this right. Spread the word!
Plain and simple, the dealer did not want you to know about a recall that lowers the power and torque of your engine from advertised , because they were afraid you would’ve passed on the purchase. The reason you like the way the truck drives is because you had nothing to compare it to prior. If you’re happy, then that’s all that matters. Ram/Cummins trying to keep up with Ford got caught with their butt in a sling.
The reason your vehicle Might Not show up on the recall list is because of its Manufacture date. The Manufacture cut-off date is October 1, 2019. All trucks manufactured BEFORE that date are eligible for the Recall, all trucks manufactured AFTER that date "No Recall Needed".
- Thats because cummins already loaded the crappy tune in the ECM before the engine shipped.
I'm with you on this! Cummins is avoiding tell us how this will affect our trucks. It certainly is NOT going to be good! Many owners have already posted Loss of Fuel Economy and Increased DEF Usage. I would also imagine they will Increase the EGR gas that is put into the engine!! All that added garbage will increase wear particles into your engine and engine oil, as well as wear out Emission Components faster - Hence a little bit of extended warranty on some parts. Of Course they Don't want to tell anybody that! This Increased Wear and Tear is Not going to show up in a month or 2, but it is going to happen to your truck!!!
Oh MY. Anyone want to buy my 2018??? Let's do a little survey, so I can put a value on my potential losses, should/if, I try to sell or trade.....🤔
At the dealership level, sometimes we are given a Safety Recall letter from mothership indicating whatever vehicles we have in stock(pre-sale) must have a specific repair completed prior to that vehicle leaving the lot. Now, it can be sold, but it cannot legally leave the lot. It can be a software update, a harness repair to an emissions system or whatever. I've never heard of a rule that we have to disclose all updates prior to sale.
And to be honest, shame on Cummapart for cheating the system.
The DEF usage on my 2022 Ram work truck is a bit much. I had a 2014 F250 diesel which used a gallon once every 2 months driving 500 to 700 miles a day. The Ram uses a gallon every 3 weeks.
Content i want to see, dyno a pre recall and post recall cummins, then a deleted cummins, as well as mpg test loops towing and not towing, would be a great video series with useful data
Then why don’t you do all those things and let us know? Why is it always someone else’s responsibility? Get off your fat ass and do it.
Never trust any paperwork from dealers. I worked for a dealership in the UK and have seen cars come in with no history, new service book ordered and vehicle sold with a full stamped up history. 🙄🙄
Good that you use L/100km measurement for fuel mileage. USA gallon and imperial gallon are quite a bit different and makes it not so black and white
A recall that was just issued was done back In 2020? That doesn't add up. I'm thinking you'll be getting another notice.
The initial investigation into these trucks actually began in April 2019. investor.cummins.com/news/detail/420/cummins-reviewing-emissions-certification-and-compliance
In my opinion Cummins was trying to get out ahead of this and deal with the current model year trucks right away. Might have been a move to appease the EPA at the time as well. - Stephen
Yup Ram and Cummins wanted to keep this as hushed as possible until the inevitable disclosure was finalized.
@TruckKing That is a larger red flag. Dealerships are not able to sell a truck with an open recall, which would be of course, why it was done before you brought it. However, we know via forums that people with trucks newer than yours are getting recall notices. So what's going on here? Did Cummins and FCA know this was a problem for 5 years now? Did they strike a deal with the EPA back then to limit the recall to trucks on the lot so they could sell them?
BTW, there has been several emissions related recalls on the L5P duramax since 2017, with little to no media attention and no EPA fines.
This whole situation feels like we just opened the can of worms, I don't think this is anywhere close to being over.
@@terrencejones9817the reason there’s no recall on duramax trucks is GMC stand’s for Government Motors Corporation they want to stay clean with the consumers ! Who knows ? 🤪
Those are excellent fuel economy numbers. Keep enjoying the truck. Cheers.
Another good video guys. I always appreciate the solid content
I bought my '19 2500 in December of '19 and I recieved the emissions recall about 3 months later. They bundled it in with a transmission recall to address fluid getting pushed out from the dipstick of the 68RFE. It included a new auxiliary valve body separator plate and an ecm refresh for emissions. I didn't notice any performance changes whatsoever or increased def usage. Similar thing happened to me a few years ago with my Harley Davidson. Dealer performed a bunch of TSB's on my bike while it was new and unsold. Later on when people were having issues, I questioned if my bike had the upgraded parts and a talk with the dealership confirmed that my bike had the upgraded parts done before it was sold. These were not recalls but TSB's but it would have been nice to know ahead of time that my bike had the latest, redesigned parts.
You weren't notified, you have no responsibility.
Thanks for the detail. It begs the question, though, why did Cummins fool around with the emissions if they can (or at least it seems they can) get the power and economy that consumers, like you, expect? 🤔🤔🤔
Can't' really blame the dealer for doing an update that wasn't announced as a recall until 3 years later. They we just updating software like we update our phones.
Bought my 2021 Ram 2500 6.7 with 37,000 miles. Its now at 45,000 miles and hasn't used any def (I pulled the fill tube off to check the level to make sure my gauge wasn't broken and it was at the fill tube inlet). The EGR tube doesn't get very hot either. I just had it at the dealership for a MAP sensor and they scanned it but said nothing about a tune, and the dealership I bought it from said nothing about a tune (I called them to double check there wasn't a tune). So I am guessing its not deleted (dpf canister is still there) otherwise, without a tune, it would be throwing codes. *Daily driver, don't tow anything heavy.
I own a 2022 Ram 3500 HO SRW 4x4 3.73axle AISIN transmission with 16k miles. Our elevation in southern NM is around 3840 ft, and I only get around 14mpg unloaded. And quickly drops to around 10mpg when Towing.
I'm very disappointed on the mpg.
I asked the dealer if they could check it because I have seen several videos of people boasting on 16 to 20mpg. But no matter how easy or slow I drive, I can't get any better mpg.
Has anyone else experienced the same thing?
Howard, our moms may have said "Eat your peas....just do it" but you've gotta admit, they were right! ;-)
I feel like it's one less worry for the owner, all you need to know is the onus is on the manufacturer and you will not be in legal trouble, no need to complicate it more than that. I understand the frustration, but if the product works as intended as it was purchased (barring any after modifications), it's moot.
OK, and if it doesn't work as intended, then what do you suggest?
Very interesting. Thank you for that knowledge. Now I have to do some investigation on my truck which is a 2022.
What a beautiful truck, love the color. Your fall colors are to kill for!
Excellent episode and very informative regarding dealerships and recalls 😁
Really enjoy this channel!
What I find odd is if this recall just came out. How the heck did the dealership know about it 3 years ago when you purchased this truck?
i never will do this update .. i have a ghost tune def/egr detete.. buddy works at a Ram dealer said it was to find out what people did tunes on trucks and to use more def fuel per tank and to lock computers out from being tuned again
??? Please elaborate. I also have a 2018 with some issues.
It affected my performance in a big way so I don’t think that’s it. It’s about emissions
Cause when I just bought mine while they was getting it ready after service was done there was a sheet that had the recalls and dates they was done and what they just did to it that same day
Give me the answers and I will give the truck to update, if not then I'm not updating it! I bought a truck with x HP and if it goes down that is on you guys because of emissions issues I was not aware of or responsible for. Buy my truck back then B!!
2018 Chevy Silverado 3500 SRW Crew... My DEF consumption is between 463 to 817 MPG. Average 694 MPG.
The software update ruined my perfectly running truck. I’ve lost 3 MPG, torque and power. It even sounds worse. I hope they make this right. I’m livid!!! And the dealer didn’t even mention anything about what the software update was about, just that it was necessary.
Thanks for sharing, by the way your Ram still looks great!
No way would I take it back in for them to screw with the performance of my truck.
Well as shown in the video, performance doesnt seem to be an issue. That and any emissions recall can be tied to vehicle registration renewal.
Again. You should have deleted your truck when you drove it off the lot.
@@ALMX5DPNOPE. he addressed that. He doesn’t know what it would have been. My truck lost a lot of power and 3 MPG
I did and regret it
@@Falkon-dv6hl what did he address? It's been 6 months now since i watched this but did he indicate some issues he had with the performance?
So the only trucks that had defeat software in them 2013-2019 2500/3500 trucks. Some and most 2019 trucks have already had the software update done. In fact this issue has been so far resolved that the new software updates have already sustained power outputs. Keep an eye out for 2025-2026. It’s going to be the year of the Ram heavy duty.
The milage on my 2022 ram 2500 tradesman is crap. I have never got over 18 mpg and driving in town is around 12.5 mpg. Towing on the freeway about 14mpg. Towing in town is around 7mpg.
Mine doesn't use any and I have a 2014 3500
I'm leaning against doing the recall unless something changes. My state, even though it's a liberal blue state, doesn't require emissions testing for diesel vehicles above a certain weight ( mine doesn't require it.) Now I'm not going to delete anything, but I don't want to hurt the truck by adding more emissions equipment.
Oregon?
Well they did tell you it's say it right on the Ram delivery sheet I
I'm confused as to how the recall could have been performed over three years ago when this is a brand new recall. Did Ram/Cummins and the dealerships actually know about this issue over three years ago and just not mention it to buyers? Other vehicles must have also had the recall performed like this one, then. This situation doesn't add up.
The recall, fixes and various "defeat devices", are different for different model years and drivetrain setups. They are tied to VIN, as the tracer. Cummins not discloing everything and nothing here yet in CANADA as to how they are going to remedy. They admit "NO GUILT", as part of the massive settlement they have to pay to the US GOV!
So my question is, will the same rules apply to Canadian owners in terms of registering the truck or selling the vehicle? The US restrictions are the software update needs to be done or else the ownership or transfer status will not take place...
It's bullshit. The department of licensing doesn't know what has been done and hasn't.
If you’ve had that truck for 3 years I don’t see how this new recall was done already since it was just found recently. From my understanding ram has to recall a specific amount of trucks to fix, not all. Like a quota to please there agreement. Not all will get the new recall. You may still get it or could miss it. Not all recalls have even been sent out yet so I don’t see how yours was already done 3 years prior to the recall. It’s quite normal for emissions systems to have recalls and updates.
Since you still have it, would you please put airbags on the rear, and compare it to the Silverado. Have a Ram just like it .
My 2018 will not pass a smog test after the recall. Fighting Moss Chrysler Ram Jeep in Riverside Ca right now. They both have pretty much blown me off at this point. A truck w/out a smog cert CA is as useless as a brick.
Wow. The reason I got the update was to try and pass smog. I haven’t retested yet. That sucks. Sorry to hear.
@@Falkon-dv6hl I warn everyone to get it done way ahead of time. It takes a lot of miles before it will pass.
heck even my F250 had an emissions recall on it, but the selling dealer didn't update it. I had another dealership complete the pending recall and I saw zero change in def use, regen, etc. MPG stayed the same, literally no change to the end user.
I wish that was the case with my 2017 Ram. It’s not the same truck. I’m pissed!!
Thanks for the giddyups. Can’t link the photo here.
Def consumption and performance is least important since engine has major design with lifters that will cost owners $15 in repairs
I didn’t read all the comments so if this has been asked already I am sorry.
Was any of ur service work on ur truck done at the dealer after you purchased it? If so maybe the dealer did the update without ur knowledge and never said anything to you.
You just happened to find out as you said when you went online.
2015 Ram 3500 H.O. unloaded
1250 MI. / GAL. DEF
Thank you guys!
I wonder if they started updating the software once they learned about the early stages of the investigation? Glad your truck is done and runs ok. The resale price has probably been permanently effected unfortunately.
DEF usage is essentially a function of diesel fuel consumption--the more diesel fuel consumed, the more DEF will be consumed. The rate of consumption does seem to vary, based on the engine. I had a 2012 Ford Super Duty with the 6.7 Powerstroke. It would average about 16-19 mpg running empty. At those MPG numbers, DEF usage was about 2.5 gallons per 7K miles--much less than Rams with the Cummins and GMs with the Duramax. Pulling a heavy trailer getting from 8-10 mpg, DEF consumption, not surprisingly was about double the unladen DEF consumption.
DEF usage also surely has other factors than just, Total fuel used, yes including how used, meaning what is the DEF system being told to do by the PCM. Here, the issue is before and after recall, on same truck with similar usage. That is what we are trying to figure out, and some are starting to report on that now. Software update will most likely change all the numbers...
What size is the Tires on your Truck?
I bought a set of these wheels and like the look of
these on your truck. Would like to go 1 size bigger
but need a starting point!!
Love your Videos BTW
Thanks
What happens if they reflash my truck but I hit a pot hole a few months ago and all my emissions equipment fell off?? For some reason I don’t have to add any DEF and my mpgs are up considerably better. I’m so confused pls help!?!?
My 2022 uses almost twice the DEF than my 2018. It means less egr in which is good. Take the good with the bad I suppose. The mileage is similar, but I feel my 2022 seems stronger than my 2018. It could be because 3.42 vs 3.73 and/or extra 50ftlb of torque with the 2022 vs 2018. Also 2020+ and up are not apart of the recall. It was a blanketed recall with all MY2013-2023 6.7 CTD with the same SCR emission system.
I think dealers are required to do any recall before selling to the customers.
In the same time they not doing the recall for free.
Doesn't your license plate say Ontario? Why would you do anything that the EPA, which is a United States Federal agency says you have to do?
How did they know they needed that recall way Beck then preemptive knowing they were going to get caught
Cummins was working with the EPA since 2019 and was doing an internal investigation. They updated the 2019’s and installed the updated software on all future builds since.
But, did they really fit it? Is there a way to if they really fitted it?
Years ago I took my 2011 f150 to Ford for a transmission recall, they worked on it and they told me it was ready, but it wasn't, I still have the problem
This stinks to high heaven! I have owned several Cummins rams over the years, and this is the last one! DONE, FINISHED! money we put out to buy these machines and then the lack of information, Screw the consumer because we got our money. Where do I sign up for the class action suit against them. 2 billion dollars, has any consumer gotten a check?
2017 f350. 1 tank every 10,000km. The tank is probably 15L as I can’t get 2 jugs in it
Not the same recall. Current recall is 67a for emissions scandal.
Had mine done yesterday. Performance wise I don’t notice a thing. I never kept track of my Def Usage. Not concerned. Way to much drama over this. If you don’t like your Ram over this sell it. Plenty of buyers out there not willing to pay full price for a new truck that is done already.
Great info thanks gents.
what mud and snow tires do you have?
Hi,
Wäre cool, wenn ihr in 50000km mal euren Ansaugtrakt hinter dem Abgasrückführventil anschaut...
Liebe Grüße aus Deutschland
I also have a 2019 ram, can you explain more about how you got the CP3 installed? Did you have a warranty replacement or did you pay to have it done? It is the one thing that worries me the most about my truck.
You should have gotten a recall for the CP4 - I did and the replacement (I was told) is the CP3
@@TruckKing I will check into it. I appreciate the response. I used to watch TFL but they never reply to simple questions and you do! Thanks again.
Oh good, you bowed down to Thun burg
My guess has always been that the software had a method or opening that would allow smart software people to delete their emissions and the software update is meant to close this loophole or opening.
This could potentially explain why they are quiet about things because they don’t want people to know because many will not get the update so they can in fact delete their emissions and thereby pollute more in violation of the emission regs which is what they’re working to prevent. Just my guess.
No. The update completely changed the performance of my truck for the worse and there was a settlement pertaining to emissions. Look into it.
You do not have to get the recall done! Delete your truck and keep your truck happy. I would never get the recall done.
Then probably you will not be able to renew your registration
nice to have the new thing?
Has anyone asked why they still pass smog in California if they are not in compliance?
I think that might be changing. The recall showed up at the smog check but I don’t know if it would have passed because I had an unrelated code issue. Just did the recall and the truck is ruined! I want to sell it now
This video is somewhat misleading. Just to be clear. Emission recall 67A for 2013-2018 Ram 2500-3500 is the latest regarding the fines. Emission recall VB6 was a previous recall for 2019 only.
Trunk King, when are you going to test a cyber truck? I mean RAMs and GMs are cool and stuff, but Cyber truck is now the talk of the world. Let’s see a true test of next gen truck.
Was it recall at that time, or just ECM update? ECM updates happen all of the time, and more often than not, it never flags as a recall.
This flagged as a recall, best I can tell so far, due to fact of the BIG EPA/Cummins "settlement" announced 12/22/2023, in the USA. Recall is out now in Canada. "You MUST bring your truck to dealer and do this!".
It recalibrates the DEF gauge. Nothing more. You will hit limp mode long before your deaf tank is empty.
And ruins your MPG and power and the truck sounds like shit. I LOST 3MPG 😡
@@Falkon-dv6hl all the more reason I didn’t have it done.
I think the VB6 is a different recall.
The 'this has been done' sounds like a dealer accountability checklist. How would they have the recall done prior to being informed of the whole recall being unveiled? Heads aren't talking, just checking boxes so we can say we did our thing. Suspicious as hell.
Because, Einstein, Ram was dealing with it BEFORE it was pushed by the government to be a full recall. Pull your head out of your ass and THINK once in a while.
Why would a Canadian give a fuck what the EPA says????
As a 2018 ram 2500 owner , ive had to replace a def sensor, Turbo actuator , lift pump has been replaced as well left me dead on the side of the road
Commentando en el vídeo para el algoritmo
I have a twenty twenty ram twenty five hundred I went from 24.5 mpg to20.4 mpg with a recall just to let know
Whenever you're doing business with an automotive dealer, don't ask, don't tell.
Dealers are not to sell vehicles with outstanding recalls
Definitely something fishy going on with this recall.
Anytime there is a multi-billion dollar settlement there is something fishy going on.
They should have to buy them back..
I’m confused, you’re upset a dealer with a truck sitting on the lot for 6 months brought it in, performed a recall (they get paid by the manufacturer to do this btw), and made sure what was being sold to the public has the most up to date software before purchase?
Why would they disclose this unless it was a known major issue at the time? Like you state you had no idea about it until you checked if it was completed.
I could see if it was a safety recall and customers were concerned about it being done or not. But a software update that the salesperson probably had zero knowledge of is unlikely to be disclosed.
It seems ram was already aware of the problem and has been correcting it for years.
I couldnt agree more. Step up to the plate Cummins...Answer the mans questions. Gone are the days when you just hide in the dark and ignor your ' Paying customers ' concerns.
#Dieselgate thanks VW for screwing it up for the real work trucks and big rigs eventually.
We accept and call We are under a Belligerent Occupation
Cummins looking out for owners. EPA looking out for ?
The public.
@@KravinMoorehed Air travel gets a pass. Why?
Expect another 50 horse & 100 turkes